# overtime question



## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Ryancb596 said:


> but due to problems that are more important than working Sunday. I'd rather not work that day.


Call in that day and tell them you have a wicked case of pigskin fever.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ryancb596 said:


> How does the IBEW's policy on overtime work? Is anything over 40 mandatory and they hold it against you if you aren't there?
> 
> We are having a shutdown at kingsford this weekend, I plan to work tomorrow but due to problems that are more important than working Sunday. I'd rather not work that day. I dont see how it would be a problem since im working a 1.5x day instead of a 2x day. Ill only work Sunday if they absolutely need me there.


 All OT is optional Union Or Non Union. Thank You Labor Unions for that!


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

If you work sat, sun and take Monday off, that is an ethical issue and strongly advise against it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> All OT is optional Union Or Non Union. Thank You Labor Unions for that!


Thats great but when lay off time comes the guys that do the OT keep working


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Not if you sign a contract saying otherwise. 

Or at least if you want to keep your job.

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## Ryancb596 (Jul 12, 2011)

Wireman191 said:


> All OT is optional Union Or Non Union. Thank You Labor Unions for that!


At my last employer before I went union, if you didn't work it then "your services may no longer be needed".

There's just other **** going on right now that more important than working 7 days a week.



Wireman191 said:


> If you work sat, sun and take Monday off, that is an ethical issue and strongly advise against it.


Thats just it though, I wont have a problem working weekends on the rest of the shutdowns, just this Sunday


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats great but when lay off time comes the guys that do the OT keep working


 Not true. For the most part. He cant get fired for not being there. You're not going to lay off a good employee cause he didn't work OT.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Overtime is always optional. But you will be in the cross hairs.


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## Ryancb596 (Jul 12, 2011)

Well I wont have a problem being in cross hairs. A terminally ill family member is more important than that. There's always another job, but not another family member


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ryancb596 said:


> At my last employer before I went union, if you didn't work it then "your services may no longer be needed".
> 
> There's just other **** going on right now that more important than working 7 days a week.
> 
> ...


 I gave them 7 12s for a month straight. There comes a point when you realize that its just not as important as other things. If they want to lay me off. More power to them!


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

ryancb596 said:


> well i wont have a problem being in cross hairs. A terminally ill family member is more important than that. There's always another job, but not another family member


 for sure!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> Not true. For the most part. He cant get fired for not being there. You're not going to lay off a good employee cause he didn't work OT.


Out here in the non union sector a good employee is willing to work more then just 5 days a week.:thumbsup:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Ryancb596 said:


> Well I wont have a problem being in cross hairs. A terminally ill family member is more important than that. There's always another job, but not another family member


That's how I roll. Family is always #1.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Out here in the non union sector a good employee is willing to work more then just 5 days a week.:thumbsup:


Same in the union, but if it was a sudden emergency thing and I had prior engagements, then sorry, my weekend time is my time.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Out here in the non union sector a good employee is willing to work more then just 5 days a week.:thumbsup:


 Are they willing to or afraid they will lose there job? I'm all for working OT if I have noting going on, But if I have a kid on the way, a wedding to attend and chose not to work it, I should not be in fear of losing my job! Family should ALWAYS COME FIRST.


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## Ryancb596 (Jul 12, 2011)

Exactly, Ill be there tomorrow because I already committed myself to work tomorrow, but I haven't told them either way for Sunday. I don't see it being critical that im there.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Ryancb596 said:


> How does the IBEW's policy on overtime work? Is anything over 40 mandatory and they hold it against you if you aren't there?
> 
> We are having a shutdown at kingsford this weekend, I plan to work tomorrow but due to problems that are more important than working Sunday. I'd rather not work that day. I dont see how it would be a problem since im working a 1.5x day instead of a 2x day. Ill only work Sunday if they absolutely need me there.


Do with your time as you prefer, but, if they didn't need you, they would not have asked. However, if I wanted off, I'd take off.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> I gave them 7 12s for a month straight. There comes a point when you realize that its just not as important as other things. If they want to lay me off. More power to them!


The thing is you cant do other things without money


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Wireman191 said:


> I gave them 7 12s for a month straight. There comes a point when you realize that its just not as important as other things. If they want to lay me off. More power to them!


I have been doing seven twelves for almost a year. Family life...home...etc, is nice,but...there's no place like WORK.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> I have been doing seven twelves for almost a year. Family life...home...etc, is nice,but...there's no place like WORK.


 Making BANK! Very nice! Hopefully close to home?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

It really all depends on your boss. It doesnt really matter if it union or non. When my uncle passed away years ago My employer was ok with me taking a week to be with my aunt. The same employer let my buddy take off as much time as he needed when his mother was dying. He even paid him out of some of his vacation time and we all kicked in a little for him on mondy meetings.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Wireman191 said:


> Making BANK! Very nice! Hopefully close to home?


It is close. I'm home every night. The kids are grown and my wife...what's her name, appreciates it.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> It is close. I'm home every night. The kids are grown and my wife...what's her name, appreciates it.


 The job I was on I was staying in a motor home at an RV park in the middle of JAN, About 140 miles from home. I came home one night, ran out of propane so ice formed everywhere, It was growing out of the shower drain! Next day I told them to just give me my two checks. Wish OT would come around my home town!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> Are they willing to or afraid they will lose there job? I'm all for working OT if I have noting going on, But if I have a kid on the way, a wedding to attend and chose not to work it, I should not be in fear of losing my job! Family should ALWAYS COME FIRST.


Right now every one is afraid of losing their jobs so take the money while it is there if you don't the other guys will.


family does come first and as a man you should be working as much as you can to build a strong financial background for your family working just 40 a week does not cut it.

You guys are way too in love with weekends and time off that's great if you're single and live at home .

But if you have 5 kids to raise then you should be working to make sure they get a good start in life.

The 40 work week is just a way to prevent you from building wealth for your family.

That is what the OT pay is about to keep you and your boss from making money.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Right now every one is afraid of losing their jobs so take the money while it is there if you don't the other guys will.
> 
> 
> family does come first and as a man you should be working as much as you can to build a strong financial background for your family working just 40 a week does not cut it.
> ...


 The OP said it was for a terminally ill relative. Id go ape **** if I got layed off for missing an Optional day for that reason! I believe for the forty hours a week Mon Thur Fri, I'm obligated to be at work for the contractor, And will be. I love OT, double time, Its great money but He does not Own me, when he thinks he does is when shi* hits the fan.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Right now every one is afraid of losing their jobs so take the money while it is there if you don't the other guys will.
> 
> 
> family does come first and as a man you should be working as much as you can to build a strong financial background for your family working just 40 a week does not cut it.
> ...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Gee gold did you forget which forum your posting on???:blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> The OP said it was for a terminally ill relative. Id go ape **** if I got layed off for missing an Optional day for that reason! I believe for the forty hours a week Mon Thur Fri, I'm obligated to be at work for the contractor, And will be. I love OT, double time, Its great money but He does not Own me, when he thinks he does is when shi* hits the fan.


That is not my point of course he should take time off in that case.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> That is not my point of course he should take time off in that case.


 :laughing: Ok. I was begining to think you were heartless!


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## Acadian9 (Jun 6, 2009)

I can't see someone getting canned for saying no to overtime when its a family emergency. Refusing overtime if you have previous commitments is okay in my books. Refusing overtime because you just want the weekend to relax, that's an iffy thing. My company does not want people to work overtime unless its necessary, the builder pays or if there's a deadline approaching.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Wireman191 said:


> All OT is optional Union Or Non Union. Thank You Labor Unions for that!


That is not true when I was UAW skilled trade, they could force us to work 7 days 12 hours. Every second Sunday we could refuse. But other than that you got wrote up. They could also force ot on Saturday by making it mandatory for 100% of any trade. So ot is not always optional it depends on the contract.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

AFOREMA1 said:


> That is not true when I was UAW skilled trade, they could force us to work 7 days 12 hours. Every second Sunday we could refuse. But other than that you got wrote up. They could also force ot on Saturday by making it mandatory for 100% of any trade. So ot is not always optional it depends on the contract.


So the contract supersedes state law? Guess its deferent from state to state. I'm going to have to look into that one but I'm thinking that if you didn't theres nothing they could do. We have had that told to us before. "Mandatory OT" I say no such thing.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> You're not going to lay off a good employee cause he didn't work OT.


It depends on all the facts but I might.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Wireman191 said:


> So the contract supersedes state law? Guess its deferent from state to state. I'm going to have to look into that one but I'm thinking that if you didn't theres nothing they could do. We have had that told to us before. "Mandatory OT" I say no such thing.


State law does not prevent 2 parties on making an agreement, they are called contracts and yes a ratified contract can require you to do something. Mandatory overtime in contracts is an agreed item it does not supersede the law. As the law does not say you cannot agree to be required to do overtime. 

Contracts regularly exceed state and federal law. As long as they do not require you to do something illegal and both parties benefit, ie the company can make you work when needed and you get 1.5 or 2 times your base hourly rate.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about mandatory overtime in contracts. You may be right about it in your contract , but I am pretty sure the IBEW has provisions for mandatory overtime. And if it is in your contract there will be disciplinary clauses if you fail to show as well.
And it does not fall under state or federal statute for labor laws it would be bound by the union agreement the employees and company ratified so its under contract law.

And in the UAW you would get an awol and that could lead to write UPS and time off or termination, depending on contract language.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

AFOREMA1 said:


> State law does not prevent 2 parties on making an agreement, they are called contracts and yes a ratified contract can require you to do something. Mandatory overtime in contracts is an agreed item it does not supersede the law. As the law does not say you cannot agree to be required to do overtime.
> 
> Contracts regularly exceed state and federal law. As long as they do not require you to do something illegal and both parties benefit, ie the company can make you work when needed and you get 1.5 or 2 times your base hourly rate.
> 
> ...


 So it is in my Union contract not the job contract. Gotcha! I know in ours it specifically says all OT is optional.


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## Acadian9 (Jun 6, 2009)

Where would people be required to work this ridiculous amount of overtime as required by contract?

806 OVERTIME

A. All work performed outside of the regular working
hours and on Saturdays, Sundays and
Statutory Holidays, shall be paid at double (2
times) the straight time rate except for special
hours as specified in Clause 800 A to H and
hours specified in Shift Clause 808. *All overtime
shall be worked on a voluntary basis* and shall
be distributed as equally as possible among
IBEW members.

http://www.ibew353.org/agreement/1prov.pdf

How can there be a contract that forces mandatory overtime when according to Union rules, it is all voluntary?


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Acadian9 said:


> Where would people be required to work this ridiculous amount of overtime as required by contract?


When I was told it was we were pulling 3 conductor 600MCM MC cable, copper non the lass. Not a guy wanted to be on that job! But we were told it was mandatory OT. Data center work. I think to this day they were just expressing they wanted us there every day to be done by the dead line. We pulled around 3000' Little advice guys, you hear or see this stuff, RUN! FAST!:laughing: Stuff was 9 lbs per foot if I remembor right!


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## Acadian9 (Jun 6, 2009)

Wireman191 said:


> When I was told it was we were pulling 3 conductor 600MCM MC cable, copper non the lass. Not a guy wanted to be on that job! But we were told it was mandatory OT. Data center work. I think to this day they were just expressing they wanted us there every day to be done by the dead line. We pulled around 3000' Little advice guys, you hear or see this stuff, RUN! FAST!:laughing: Stuff was 9 lbs per foot if I remembor right!


I know that sometimes job conditions dictate when people need to come in. Concrete on Saturdays means I have to come in lol.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Ryancb596 said:


> How does the IBEW's policy on overtime work? Is anything over 40 mandatory and they hold it against you if you aren't there?
> 
> We are having a shutdown at kingsford this weekend, I plan to work tomorrow but due to problems that are more important than working Sunday. I'd rather not work that day. I dont see how it would be a problem since im working a 1.5x day instead of a 2x day. Ill only work Sunday if they absolutely need me there.


 I didn't fly back east for my grandmothers funeral because of work/money.....I have regretted that forever......
A couple years ago when I worked Union I had requested a week off to spend with my brother who was returning from Afghanistan....2 days before that my shop supervisor approached me about going out of town for a week....I told him no. He gave me the "well we really need you, may not be a smart decision, blah,blah,blah"...
Screw em....I would have had no qualms spreading the word to local news that this contractor was not sympathetic to Military families :thumbsup:
Point is you gotta weigh your personal priorities against your career...the job(whatever job) will always be there......can't say that about personal life issues and family.....


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Contrary to popular belief (unless there's a contract in place), there is no such thing as a maximum number of hours that you can't be mandated to work beyond. In the case of a dying relative, I think there would be no one but the most heartless person who'd hold that against a guy. BUT, business is business, and I'd want proof of some sort. I've heard every sob story under the sun, and many of them are fiction.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Contrary to popular belief (unless there's a contract in place), there is no such thing as a maximum number of hours that you can't be mandated to work beyond. In the case of a dying relative, I think there would be no one but the most heartless person who'd hold that against a guy. BUT, business is business, and I'd want proof of some sort. I've heard every sob story under the sun, and many of them are fiction.


 Holy crap! L&I site said it can be mandatory! I could have sworn it was not!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Wireman191 said:


> Holy crap! L&I site said it can be mandatory! I could have sworn it was not!


Yeah, the instructor at the last HR workshop I went to said clearly that there was only one state that had a maximum number of hours a person may be mandated to work. I forget what state. He did warn, however, that if (for instance) a person had a car crash on the way home from working so much and being so tired, employers have had to share liability in some cases that went to court.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, the instructor at the last HR workshop I went to said clearly that there was only one state that had a maximum number of hours a person may be mandated to work. I forget what state. He did warn, however, that if (for instance) a person had a car crash on the way home from working so much and being so tired, employers have had to share liability in some cases that went to court.


At Ford when I first hired in you could work as many hours as you could stand, an example I went in on a Friday night and left Monday morning over 48 hours on the books. But do to a few accidents and deaths after exiting the plants Ford changed their police to limit overtime to a max of 14 hours. Of course top management could waive this for emergencies but it became rare to exceed 16 hours in any day after that.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

Wireman191 said:


> Not true. For the most part. He cant get fired for not being there. You're not going to lay off a good employee cause he didn't work OT.


Well, its not getting laid off or being fired, but look at it this way - if the job ends, the contractors and union guys are cognizant of who is a team player and who is a weekday guy only. They won't fire you, but they can be selective of whom they give a new assignment to.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I guess it took you a while to come up with that answer. :laughing:


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

No good deed goes unpunished. 

Work the overtime and regret it. Don't work it, and regret it. Either way you will regret it.

Take some control over your own life. Work when and where you want to work. 

The squeeze is coming. All these old geezzers retiring will leave a gaping hole in the need for skilled labor. Factor in the collapse of the dollar, and now the US will be an export economy again. There will be work for anyone with a pulse. And I know it will be this way. Maybe not for the lazy fat ******ed, but it will be true for me. Those not clever enough to be a decent electrician need to do something else for a living, and quit weighing the rest of us down. We could name our prices, if only we'll stick together.

It's a craft thing, we should be taking baby steps to ensure each other's success. Just saying. We need to make more money because obamacare is going to be expensive, right?


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

mainejakes said:


> Well, its not getting laid off or being fired, but look at it this way - if the job ends, the contractors and union guys are cognizant of who is a team player and who is a weekday guy only. They won't fire you, but they can be selective of whom they give a new assignment to.





mr hands said:


> No good deed goes unpunished.
> 
> Work the overtime and regret it. Don't work it, and regret it. Either way you will regret it.
> 
> ...


Hey, you two chuckleheads ever check the dates on threads you respond to?

Like Rumplestiltskin, you awake from a looooooong sleep, and carry-on right where you left off?

OP hasn't been on here in over a year....


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

mr hands said:


> No good deed goes unpunished.
> 
> Work the overtime and regret it. Don't work it, and regret it. Either way you will regret it.
> 
> ...


All was going well until that last sentence. It's like having an intelligent conversation with someone and then they tell you that they had been abducted by aliens.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

jrannis said:


> All was going well until that last sentence. It's like having an intelligent conversation with someone and then they tell you that they had been abducted by aliens.


No, Obamacare is the excuse I give to the rehtarded for the climb in prices.

It's more difficult to say it costs more because I believe my time is worth more. Give the dumdums a reason they can live with.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

ibuzzard said:


> Hey, you two chuckleheads ever check the dates on threads you respond to?
> 
> Like Rumplestiltskin, you awake from a looooooong sleep, and carry-on right where you left off?
> 
> OP hasn't been on here in over a year....


I saw the date, whats your point?

A lot of people have the entitled opinion that they can pick and choose when they work.

I mean we post so otherS read our comments not just the OP or we would PM them, just like you could have done to me. :thumbsup:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

mainejakes said:


> A lot of people have the entitled opinion that they can pick and choose when they work.


How is refusing overtime entitled? 

I turn down overtime all the time. We work a standard 40 hour work week. I don't "pick and choose when I work". I show up Monday through Friday and work from 7a-3p. That's what I agreed to when I was hired and that's what I am obligated to work. I don't need the ot and I don't want it. I will work some overtime when absolutely necessary, but it is at my discretion and it is rare. I have a life outside of work. My job doesn't run my life. If my employer can't understand that then they can fire me, that's not a company I want to work for anyway.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

You are correct that is your right, but you can not complain then, when that job ends and the contractor declines to rehire you for the the next bid he has in favor of some guy who works all the overtime he can get.


fair?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> How is refusing overtime entitled?
> 
> I turn down overtime all the time. We work a standard 40 hour work week. I don't "pick and choose when I work". I show up Monday through Friday and work from 7a-3p. That's what I agreed to when I was hired and that's what I am obligated to work. I don't need the ot and I don't want it. I will work some overtime when absolutely necessary, but it is at my discretion and it is rare. I have a life outside of work. My job doesn't run my life. If my employer can't understand that then they can fire me, that's not a company I want to work for anyway.


But since this is posted in the union section you probably don't understand the difference - you interview and work for a company - we get pulled from the hall. 

When overtime comes up, contractors tend to lay off the folks who don't work overtime first - as is their right - because the contractor usually equates not wanting to work overtime with not wanting to work.

Our contractors don't care if we have a life outside of work, they care about hiring short term labor to get a job done. We know that and they know that.

Some contractors will give more latitude to their key guys but for the most part we already know refusing overtime is asking to be put near the top of the lay off list.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

mainejakes said:


> You are correct that is your right, but you can not complain then, when that job ends and the contractor declines to rehire you for the the next bid he has in favor of some guy who works all the overtime he can get.
> 
> fair?


Like I said. If the only thing that is important to the contractor is to have a bunch of overtime whores who's lives revolve around work, then that wouldn't be a contractor I would want to work for anyway. 

Luckily my employer understands that some guys aren't interested in the overtime and it isn't really an issue. We have plenty of guys that love ot, so they can have it. I'm all set. Also, I bring more to the table than my willingness or unwillingness to work overtime. My employer is smart enough to see that and doesn't make layoff decisions based solely on who jumps on the overtime or not.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

eejack said:


> But since this is posted in the union section you probably don't understand the difference - you interview and work for a company - we get pulled from the hall.
> 
> When overtime comes up, contractors tend to lay off the folks who don't work overtime first - as is their right - because the contractor usually equates not wanting to work overtime with not wanting to work.
> 
> ...


I didn't see that this was the union section, my bad. I don't check to see what section I'm in, I just click threads that look interesting. 

If this is truly how things work in the union, then chalk up one more reason why I would never consider being union.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

My contract states; no on call, no overtime.:thumbup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> I didn't see that this was the union section, my bad. I don't check to see what section I'm in, I just click threads that look interesting.
> 
> If this is truly how things work in the union, then chalk up one more reason why I would never consider being union.


It really is one of the big downsides to the way we work. Unlike non union folks, we know we are temporary workers and expect that kind of rough treatment. Not all contractors are like that but many are.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

EBFD6 said:


> Like I said. If the only thing that is important to the contractor is to have a bunch of overtime whores who's lives revolve around work, then that wouldn't be a contractor I would want to work for anyway.
> 
> Luckily my employer understands that some guys aren't interested in the overtime and it isn't really an issue. We have plenty of guys that love ot, so they can have it. I'm all set. Also, I bring more to the table than my willingness or unwillingness to work overtime. My employer is smart enough to see that and doesn't make layoff decisions based solely on who jumps on the overtime or not.


you missed the point about it NOT being a layoff situation ffs. The issue is not being CALLED BACK when new jobs come up. thats not being LAY-ED off.....

Well you are unfortunately and unreasonably snotty about it. the fact is, as a commercial electrician in this economy in this state, there are NO steady electrical jobs. 
There are however an overabundance of highly trained out of work electricians who are lucky to find 6 months of work let alone year round, especially at a living wage.

Construction is not a steady field either- contractors are paid for results not ongoing existence. it is in the favor of both managing companies AND the bidding contractors to get fast results.

I am grateful for the overtime because it may be a year before another gig comes along. I see way too many fools who whine about not having work, but still refuse overtime. It's galling,


but its obvious you are vehemently anti-union, so please run along. this isnt a platform for defending or attacking them.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

mainejakes said:


> you missed the point about it NOT being a layoff situation ffs. The issue is not being CALLED BACK when new jobs come up. thats not being LAY-ED off.....
> 
> Well you are unfortunately and unreasonably snotty about it. the fact is, as a commercial electrician in this economy in this state, there are NO steady electrical jobs.
> There are however an overabundance of highly trained out of work electricians who are lucky to find 6 months of work let alone year round, especially at a living wage.
> ...


Wait a minute. When the union/non-union debate comes up here, and we non-union guys mention the fact that union guys don't work year round we're always told that this isn't true. We're always told that most union guys work steady and no one's ever riding the bench for a year at a time. 

In 15 years in the trade I've never been laid off due to lack of work. I was laid off once when the company went out of business. I had a new job in less than a week.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

EBFD6 said:


> Wait a minute. When the union/non-union debate comes up here, and we non-union guys mention the fact that union guys don't work year round we're always told that this isn't true. We're always told that most union guys work steady and no one's ever riding the bench for a year at a time.


Don't try to argue with the phrase "whenever" and "i was told".

That is a strawman argument. I can not and will not speak for what other people may or may not have said- nor will I take tenuous testimony as the basis of this discussion.


As for the steadiness of work? It may very well be different in a good state- I can ONLY speak from my experiences here. Where everyone is hurting.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

mainejakes said:


> Don't try to argue with the phrase "whenever" and "i was told".
> 
> That is a strawman argument. I can not and will not speak for what other people may or may not have said- nor will I take tenuous testimony as the basis of this discussion.
> 
> ...


I honestly don't understand why any electricians are out of work. In Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, etc where I've worked, we're desperate for craftsmen. 

The company I work for currently has "Now Hiring Electricians" permanently posted on the grounds and online, still can't fill the slots. 

Is there a reason you guys are only willing to do short construction jobs? The maintenance field is wide open, plants are running on skeleton crews. I have unlimited overtime because we are so shorthanded, I usually work 80-100 hours a week, make a good 6 figure salary.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

IP-EI said:


> Is there a reason you guys are only willing to do short construction jobs? The maintenance field is wide open, plants are running on skeleton crews. I have unlimited overtime because we are so shorthanded, I usually work 80-100 hours a week, make a good 6 figure salary.


Do you make "a good 6 figure salary" because you work 80-100 hours a week? 

How good would your salary be if you only worked 40 hours a week? 

That's the problem with maintenance jobs around here. The pay is horrible. The only way for a maintenance electrician to make a decent paycheck is to work copious amounts of overtime, something I have no interest in doing.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

EBFD6 said:


> Do you make "a good 6 figure salary" because you work 80-100 hours a week?
> 
> How good would your salary be if you only worked 40 hours a week?
> 
> That's the problem with maintenance jobs around here. The pay is horrible. The only way for a maintenance electrician to make a decent paycheck is to work copious amounts of overtime, something I have no interest in doing.


My actual pay is $32.61/hr plus $85/week shift differential. So if I worked absolutely no OT, my annual pay would be about $65,000. Not bad at all for this area. But I try to work a minumum of 10 hours of OT per week (it's easy money....I just sit around drinking coffee and talking to my buddies, unless something terrible happens.) 

The least I've made in a year since taking this job was $98,000. That was when I was only making $26/hr.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I work five 10s and live comfortably. If I had to work any more than that I'd lose my mind. If I worked 80-100 hours a week I would've killed myself a long time ago


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> I work five 10s and live comfortably. If I had to work any more than that I'd lose my mind. If I worked 80-100 hours a week I would've killed myself a long time ago


I never said I had to work that much. My regular schedule is 44 hrs a week, 3 12s and an 8. Plus I get a week off every month. And I'm paid whether I'm there or not. 3 weeks of paid vacation, 4 personal holidays. 

But the overtime is always available. I need a new set of tires for my truck, I can just come in on my day off and make 400-500 bucks in a day. I'm trying to pay off my house as quickly as possible, which is why I work so much. Several guys in my shop never work over 40, no problem.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

IP-EI said:


> I never said I had to work that much. My regular schedule is 44 hrs a week, 3 12s and an 8. Plus I get a week off every month. And I'm paid whether I'm there or not. 3 weeks of paid vacation, 4 personal holidays. But the overtime is always available. I need a new set of tires for my truck, I can just come in on my day off and make 400-500 bucks in a day. I'm trying to pay off my house as quickly as possible, which is why I work so much. Several guys in my shop never work over 40, no problem.


I figured it was self imposed. I'm just saying how sharp can a guy be on the ass end of an 80 hour week? I'd be an incident waiting to happen


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> I figured it was self imposed. I'm just saying how sharp can a guy be on the ass end of an 80 hour week? I'd be an incident waiting to happen


If I feel tired at work, I go to sleep. My co-worker Tommie usually sleeps for about 3 hours a shift. 

I usually spend maybe 1 or 2 hours out of a 12 hour shift actually working. I'm at work right now, been here for 5 hours. I've opened one 480v breaker in that time, for a lockout on a motor for the mechanics to change the gearbox. Aside from that, I've been drinking coffee and reading threads here. Not exactly grueling. 

When I still worked construction, 70-80 hour weeks were a nightmare and I had to take pain medication just to get out of bed after a week or two of that. I don't miss it.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Federal Law*

The U.S. Department of Labor requires that employees working overtime must receive one and a half times their regular pay for hours worked over 40 in a week. However, federal law places no limits on the total number of hours an adult can work in any given week. Theoretically, an employer could require a 168-hour workweek without violating any federal laws, and is within a company's rights to penalize an employee who refuses to work -- as long as doing so does not create a health or safety hazard.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> *Federal Law*
> 
> The U.S. Department of Labor requires that employees working overtime must receive one and a half times their regular pay for hours worked over 40 in a week. However, federal law places no limits on the total number of hours an adult can work in any given week. Theoretically, an employer could require a 168-hour workweek without violating any federal laws, and is within a company's rights to penalize an employee who refuses to work -- as long as doing so does not create a health or safety hazard.


Who determines the point at which overtime/exhaustion creates a health or safety hazard? Seems pretty ambiguos and unenforceable in either direction. In my opinion, an 80 hour work week puts undue strain on the employee and is a health and safety hazard.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> *Federal Law*
> 
> The U.S. Department of Labor requires that employees working overtime must receive one and a half times their regular pay for hours worked over 40 in a week. However, federal law places no limits on the total number of hours an adult can work in any given week. Theoretically, an employer could require a 168-hour workweek without violating any federal laws, and is within a company's rights to penalize an employee who refuses to work -- as long as doing so does not create a health or safety hazard.


Yep. I've heard lots of guys over the years claim "You can't force me to work overtime! Its against the law!" No, it's not. 

I've also heard, more times than I can count, "The law says I have to have a break and lunch every day!" No, it doesn't. There are no Federal requirements for breaks of any kind. 

I used to work for Zachry Construction, their rule was no more than 16 hours a day, and only 13 days in a row. So we could work 13 16 hour shifts, but then we had to take a day off. And I've done it.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

IP-EI said:


> My actual pay is $32.61/hr plus $85/week shift differential. So if I worked absolutely no OT, my annual pay would be about $65,000. Not bad at all for this area. But I try to work a minumum of 10 hours of OT per week (it's easy money....I just sit around drinking coffee and talking to my buddies, unless something terrible happens.)
> 
> The least I've made in a year since taking this job was $98,000. That was when I was only making $26/hr.


how many maintenance jobs paying 32/hr are there out there?

Out here in Maine, we have a lot fewer businesses in general let along the kind that can justify a fulltime electrician.

our state pop is less than 2 million.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

mainejakes said:


> how many maintenance jobs paying 32/hr are there out there?
> 
> Out here in Maine, we have a lot fewer businesses in general let along the kind that can justify a fulltime electrician.
> 
> our state pop is less than 2 million.


I thought there were a lot paper mills in Maine? My friend Bill used to work for IP in Jay, Maine.

When I read the book "Betrayal of Local 14" it made it sound as if there was a lot of paper and basic forestry industry up there. 

There are paper mills, chemical plants, refineries, etc all over paying 20-40 an hour for maintenance electricians. I just got an offer of 30/hr at a Union IP mill in Texarkana the other day. They are desperate.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

Not as many mills as you'd think and many play games by having a genera maintenance guy for most of the time and if its a major issue will bring in a real electrician part time.

take all of the corruption and nepotism of the south with low population and few oversight and you have maine.

i am not saying there arent ANY mill jobs, obviously there has to be, but theres a lot less than you think.
Also as a right to work state, many of the places try to underpay employees.

32 an hour is miraculous out here


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

mainejakes said:


> Not as many mills as you'd think and many play games by having a genera maintenance guy for most of the time and if its a major issue will bring in a real electrician part time.
> 
> take all of the corruption and nepotism of the south with low population and few oversight and you have maine.
> 
> ...


I didn't know it was that bad up there. I've never been. My friend Bill went up there as a strike breaker when the local 14 did their 2 year strike on IP in Jay. He's worked for IP ever since. I figured they were paying pretty well since most of the strike breakers came from way down south for the money.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

Well the pay might be good for scabs because of inferior benefits.

its may be cheaper to pay a man 32 an hour with zero bennies than a man 28 with full bennies


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

IP-EI said:


> I honestly don't understand why any electricians are out of work. In Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, etc where I've worked, we're desperate for craftsmen.
> 
> The company I work for currently has "Now Hiring Electricians" permanently posted on the grounds and online, still can't fill the slots.
> 
> Is there a reason you guys are only willing to do short construction jobs? The maintenance field is wide open, plants are running on skeleton crews. I have unlimited overtime because we are so shorthanded, I usually work 80-100 hours a week, make a good 6 figure salary.


Because I make a good 6 figure salary and work 35 hours a week, with 10 weeks off per year. That's why. Louisiana, Texas and Alabama are right to work states and skilled tradesmen make 1/3 to 1/2 and are generally treated like bastard redheaded stepchildren according to the IBEW travelers we've had up here. 

Around here, school bus companies are ALWAYS looking for drivers too. Why? Because the job and the working conditions and the pay absolutely SUCK and despite the fact that there are people looking for jobs, most won't stoop that low.

If I worked 80 hours a week, 48 weeks a year, I'd make 250K, but never be home, never enjoy my life or my family. 

If your company and others around your area are really that shorthanded the reason is the pay is crap. Period - that's your answer and that's capitalism. There is NO SHORTAGE of skilled tradesmen in the United States to fill those jobs, most likely not even a LOCAL shortage of skilled tradesmen willing to fill those jobs, just a shortage of skilled tradesmen willing to work for very low unrealistic wages but can make that up with lots of overtime.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> just a shortage of skilled tradesmen willing to work for very low unrealistic wages but can make that up with lots of overtime.


thats the rub of it- and its the point of contention i have had with anti union guys.

they live in denial of how predatory some owners are, and how- if they could- would barely pay above minimum wage. Sadly there will almost always be some opportunist who will take a $12 hour job which screws the curve for the rest of us.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> Because I make a good 6 figure salary and work 35 hours a week, with 10 weeks off per year. That's why. Louisiana, Texas and Alabama are right to work states and skilled tradesmen make 1/3 to 1/2 and are generally treated like bastard redheaded stepchildren according to the IBEW travelers we've had up here.
> 
> Around here, school bus companies are ALWAYS looking for drivers too. Why? Because the job and the working conditions and the pay absolutely SUCK and despite the fact that there are people looking for jobs, most won't stoop that low.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't consider $32/hr an unrealistically low wage. Considering the median income around here is like $30k a year, I'm doing better than most people with Bachelors and Masters degrees. My wifes parents both have Masters and their combined salaries don't equal mine. I don't see how it's that low. The Union contractor I worked for out of the local 504 in Mobile, AL was only paying JWs $24/hr.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

IP-EI said:


> I wouldn't consider $32/hr an unrealistically low wage. The Union contractor I worked for out of the local 504 in Mobile, AL was only paying JWs $24/hr.


With or without benefits?


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

also its not the electrical contractor who sets the pay rate its the general contractor and varies for each contractor
24 with full bennies is better than 32 with none


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

mainejakes said:


> With or without benefits?


Which one? I have benefits now, I had benefits then. I actually have better benefits now, aside from not having very good dental insurance.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

IP-EI said:


> I never said I had to work that much. My regular schedule is 44 hrs a week, 3 12s and an 8. Plus I get a week off every month. And I'm paid whether I'm there or not. 3 weeks of paid vacation, 4 personal holidays.
> 
> But the overtime is always available. I need a new set of tires for my truck, I can just come in on my day off and make 400-500 bucks in a day. I'm trying to pay off my house as quickly as possible, which is why I work so much. Several guys in my shop never work over 40, no problem.


If you're working 3-12's and an 8 you're on the night shift. If that were me then I'd be making $360K.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

to be fair NY has good pay rates.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> If you're working 3-12's and an 8 you're on the night shift. If that were me then I'd be making $360K.


Southern Swing shift. Rotating days and nights. I love shift work, mainly the week off every month. And I like working nights over days, because when I get off in the morning businesses are actually open so I can get stuff done, like Dr appointments and banking. 

We have more day people than shift people, and most of them hate shift work.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

mainejakes said:


> thats the rub of it- and its the point of contention i have had with anti union guys.


 Please just don't confuse or intermingle non-union with anti-union. There's a world of difference. People who work for a living, whether they're union or not, are not my enemy. In addition, many people who have never worked union know absolutely nothing about unions, or the movement, or the concept, and really have no viable way to make any kind of rational, accurate worthwhile opinion worth repeating as to their personal stance. If anything, what they do feel they know is often anti-union propaganda and a whole lot of anecdotal union horror stories.



> they live in denial of how predatory some owners are, and how- if they could- would barely pay above minimum wage. Sadly there will almost always be some opportunist who will take a $12 hour job which screws the curve for the rest of us.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

I consider anyone who tells me unions are bull**** and I am an idiot for being in one, i consider antiunion.

i was not accusing anyone here of being antiunion, merely sharing an observation i have had with people in the past.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

mainejakes said:


> to be fair NY has good pay rates.


More like the NY tri-state region. When we go upstate past the populated counties it's obvious the per-capita income drops off severely.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

agreed, just saying making 50 an hour versus 28 makes a diff in howmuch you need to work


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

mainejakes said:


> agreed, just saying making 50 an hour versus 28 makes a diff in howmuch you need to work


I like working a lot. I get other crafts to teach me in my spare time at work. I've learned to align a motor with a laser, re-pack a pump, wrap leaking pipe, etc in the last few weeks. I would like to be skilled at every craft, and the opportunity is there for me to learn.

Not to mention, we have a lot of cook-outs and stuff at work. Theres a big grill and smoker at every shop, and on the weekends/nights we spend more time cooking and socializing than working. My craft tops out at $35/hr here, I just have 2 more tests to take to top out. If I want to work less I can take a foreman job, $98k a year, salaried. But I prefer being able to make overtime when I need more money. Salary scares me. 

I usually get a $2,000 bonus every quarter also. I just don't miss construction, regardless of the pay.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

i hope you can acknowledge those opportunities are not ubiquitous


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

mainejakes said:


> I consider anyone who tells me unions are bull**** and I am an idiot for being in one, i consider antiunion.
> 
> i was not accusing anyone here of being antiunion, merely sharing an observation i have had with people in the past.


 I consider anyone who tells me unions are bull**** who have not been in one simply ignorant. I started out in this trade nonunion and immediately applied before I even graduated high school. Working for nonunion employers I was inundated with quips and jabs about how bad it was to be a union worker. (And, this is Long Island NY) These quips and jabs were from company owners, company owner's sons, "mechanics" who tried but failed to get in, and just basic everyday employees parroting what they've herd but had no real world experience. 

I was fortunate to get my first taste when I wired houses. In the 80's, the housing market was still pretty strong around here. The local IBEW was allowing contractors to hire off the street (Book 4) because it couldn't supply the necessary labor from it's own ranks. Immediately I jumped on a position and was making 18 bucks an hour (+ bennies and pension) at age 19 doing exactly the same thing no nonunion contractor would pay more than 8 dollars an hour for. 

Incidentally, the company I left to take the union gig (which lasted 2 & 1/2 years) had his 2 sons doing most of the work. They were both married and both had a kid, I think one had 2 kids. They lived in their father's investment house which looked like chit. Illegally divided single family. Neither one could afford a home of their own, and they're working for DADDY. 

One summer I worked for an EC who did pools exclusively. The foreman had to be dropped off at 6:30am by his wife, toddler in tow, because they could only afford one car, and they lived in Mastic, which is about 55 miles East of the shop. We wired one pool at a typical house with a couple of nice cars and I see the IBEW bug on the cars windows. The foreman snickered about how unions suck. Really? This union member is living in a 4 bedroom colonial on 3/4 acre and having a 20 x 40 built in pool installed in one of the nicest middle class towns on Long Island, and you're the foreman of an electrical shop with a rented shack in one of the WORST ****holes where major drug busts and gunfights are common who cannot afford his own car, and UNIONS ARE BAD? 

Just having the ability of making my own judgments and my own decisions at a younger age than most, and forming my own opinions has save me a lot of grief.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> I consider anyone who tells me unions are bull**** who have not been in one simply ignorant. I started out in this trade nonunion and immediately applied before I even graduated high school. Working for nonunion employers I was inundated with quips and jabs about how bad it was to be a union worker. (And, this is Long Island NY) These quips and jabs were from company owners, company owner's sons, "mechanics" who tried but failed to get in, and just basic everyday employees parroting what they've herd but had no real world experience.
> 
> I was fortunate to get my first taste when I wired houses. In the 80's, the housing market was still pretty strong around here. The local IBEW was allowing contractors to hire off the street (Book 4) because it couldn't supply the necessary labor from it's own ranks. Immediately I jumped on a position and was making 18 bucks an hour (+ bennies and pension) at age 19 doing exactly the same thing no nonunion contractor would pay more than 8 dollars an hour for.
> 
> ...


How has the conversation moved form overtime to union vs non-union? Did I miss something?


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> We wired one pool at a typical house with a couple of nice cars and I see the IBEW bug on the cars windows. The foreman snickered about how unions suck. Really? This union member is living in a 4 bedroom colonial on 3/4 acre and having a 20 x 40 built in pool installed in one of the nicest middle class towns on Long Island, and you're the foreman of an electrical shop with a rented shack in one of the WORST ****holes where major drug busts and gunfights are common who cannot afford his own car, and UNIONS ARE BAD?


So...the guy whose pool you were wiring, (the one with the IBEW bug on the car windows) was having a non-union outfit (the outfit you were working for) wire his pool?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ampman66 said:


> So...the guy whose pool you were wiring, (the one with the IBEW bug on the car windows) was having a non-union outfit (the outfit you were working for) wire his pool?


Yes he was. We worked directly for the pool companies.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Gotcha.:thumbsup:
I had to ask...


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

When work was good in our area, our hall used to have an overtime list. 
If you were on it, you could be asked to work overtime for different contractors.
Some guys would work normal hours for their main outfit during the day, then go to other jobs for a different outfit for a few hours of O.T. afterwards, or work weekends for another outfit.
Not sure if our locals' contract has any provision for mandatory EMERGENCY overtime, but, as others have said, refusing normal O.T. too often would usually put you on the first layoff.
I would usually take it. (Unless I had something really important to do) The money was too good to pass up, and I figured that I would be happy that I did come payday.
I actually preferred coming in on a weekend as opposed to staying late.


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

Each job I have ever worked on has an ot list. In my local you can not force someone to work ot it is optional. Doesn't your ba assign a steward for each job your on? if your hired or soj you should be told in advance if there is required ot. Everyone has different sitituans, so who can't force someone to work ot,unless you work at Walmart or a sweat shop in china.
Read contract your local with its contractors .Are they NECA members?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Hello everyone! I haven't been on here in a while but thought this would be a good place for some answers. I recently tested for a diesel electrician position with Union Pacific Railroad. According to the HR lady I'll be invited to an interview soon. Anyone know anything specific about the job? Hours? Management? Advancement opportunities? I'm sure I'll find out at the interview but I'm impatient. Thanks!


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

IP-EI said:


> ...
> I've also heard, more times than I can count, "The law says I have to have a break and lunch every day!" No, it doesn't. There are no Federal requirements for breaks of any kind.
> ...


However states have break requirements. Illinois says that after 5 hours of work you have to get a 20 minute break.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> I consider anyone who tells me unions are bull**** who have not been in one simply ignorant. I started out in this trade nonunion and immediately applied before I even graduated high school. Working for nonunion employers I was inundated with quips and jabs about how bad it was to be a union worker. (And, this is Long Island NY) These quips and jabs were from company owners, company owner's sons, "mechanics" who tried but failed to get in, and just basic everyday employees parroting what they've herd but had no real world experience.
> 
> I was fortunate to get my first taste when I wired houses. In the 80's, the housing market was still pretty strong around here. The local IBEW was allowing contractors to hire off the street (Book 4) because it couldn't supply the necessary labor from it's own ranks. Immediately I jumped on a position and was making 18 bucks an hour (+ bennies and pension) at age 19 doing exactly the same thing no nonunion contractor would pay more than 8 dollars an hour for.
> 
> ...


LawGuyLandSparky is back.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

IP-EI said:


> If I feel tired at work, I go to sleep. My co-worker Tommie usually sleeps for about 3 hours a shift.
> 
> I usually spend maybe 1 or 2 hours out of a 12 hour shift actually working. I'm at work right now, been here for 5 hours. I've opened one 480v breaker in that time, for a lockout on a motor for the mechanics to change the gearbox. Aside from that, I've been drinking coffee and reading threads here. Not exactly grueling.


Maybe this is a dumb question but I'm gonna go out on a limb and ask anyway....
If all you actually need to work is 1-2hours out of a 12 hr shift and your co-worker sleeps for 3 hours a shift, why does your company need people to work overtime? Who ultimately pays for all time spent napping and drinking coffee?

Is this typical for union jobs? If so, I guess I can see why they are so desirable for many. I run a non union shop and do not claim to understand union ways, but if this is the norm, it somewhat explains why we have had such poor success with hiring union guys. I always hear that union electricians are highly trained but we have sadly reached a point in our company where a union background will send a resume to the bottom of the pile. Out of 12 hires only one union guy lasted past the 90 day trial period.
From what I have read here, it does sound like there are plenty of hard working committed union members so don't attack me. Its just that this really struck me as very wasteful and no matter who you work for someone foots this expense.....just asking because I am curious. 
I fully admit that the type of work we do (residential service) is very different from construction or industrial work so that might be part of it too. But the guys we have hired with high hopes did not quit, they didn't make the cut or had attitude issues. I don't want to generalize but it has happened so many times. I can tell you that if someone took a nap while on the clock at our shop they would be out of a job.


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

Excuse me ,but what the hell are you doing with the other 10 hour?your buddy is sleeping, while you work on 480?You say you run a non union shop and you let your worker sleep while your working on 480 alone?Then you go to say your company does residential.Who the hell has 480 coming into their house?




I


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

zman98 said:


> Excuse me ,but what the hell are you doing with the other 10 hour?your buddy is sleeping, while you work on 480?You say you run a non union shop and you let your worker sleep while your working on 480 alone?Then you go to say your company does residential.Who the hell has 480 coming into their house? I


Welcome to industrial maintenance. Unless there's major overhaul in the plant there's a lot of down time, and that's a good thing. It means your infrastructure is sound, preventative maintenance is king. 

And it doesn't take a team of guys to "work on 480". Especially when it's a simple lockout and confirm like he described. We typically don't do teams until it's 13.8 and even then the guys are highly trained and capable.


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> Welcome to industrial maintenance. Unless there's major overhaul in the plant there's a lot of down time, and that's a good thing. It means your infrastructure is sound, preventative maintenance is king.
> 
> And it doesn't take a team of guys to "work on 480". Especially when it's a simple lockout and confirm like he described. We typically don't do teams until it's 13.8 and even then the guys are highly trained and capable.


It just takes one second, in our line of work to get hurt or worse. If you feel that confident about yourself and are comfortable,then go for it.
I plan on coming homing every night to hug my children. Maybe just that's me.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

zman98 said:


> It just takes one second, in our line of work to get hurt or worse. If you feel that confident about yourself and are comfortable,then go for it. I plan on coming homing every night to hug my children. Maybe just that's me.


Dude I agree. All I'm saying is you don't need to call in the troops to turn off a breaker, verify, lock it, and tag it. There are literally no more steps than that


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> Dude I agree. All I'm saying is you don't need to call in the troops to turn off a breaker, verify, lock it, and tag it. There are literally no more steps than that


Sorry, I sounded harsh but safety should be #1. Just can't see why I guy would go and put himself in that sitituan ,while his worker was sleeping.
Go back and read his post.Stepping over his words.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

yrman said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question but I'm gonna go out on a limb and ask anyway....
> If all you actually need to work is 1-2hours out of a 12 hr shift and your co-worker sleeps for 3 hours a shift, why does your company need people to work overtime? Who ultimately pays for all time spent napping and drinking coffee?
> 
> Is this typical for union jobs? If so, I guess I can see why they are so desirable for many. I run a non union shop and do not claim to understand union ways, but if this is the norm, it somewhat explains why we have had such poor success with hiring union guys. I always hear that union electricians are highly trained but we have sadly reached a point in our company where a union background will send a resume to the bottom of the pile. Out of 12 hires only one union guy lasted past the 90 day trial period.
> ...


I work Industrial Shift Maintenance. Which means my only job is to be there in case something breaks. 

My paper mill is broken down into 4 areas. Primary Products, Utilities, finished Products 1 and 2, and finished products 3. 

Each if these areas must have an electrician on duty at all times. In case something breaks. So we have 4 electricians for each area, and one of us is there at all times. 

If everything is running well, I have nothing to do. I'm being paid to be on site in case of an electrical issue. 

If everything is running, the company doesn't care what I do with my time. So we grill steaks, drink coffee, goof off, spotlight deer, trap pigs, whatever. And we get paid to do it. 

I have unlimited overtime because the guys that have been there for a while get 7 weeks of paid vacation. So someone is always on vacation. So I volunteer to cover the shift of anyone who is on vacation during my off days. 

Does that answer your question? If not, feel free to ask more.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

zman98 said:


> Sorry, I sounded harsh but safety should be #1. Just can't see why I guy would go and put himself in that sitituan ,while his worker was sleeping.
> Go back and read his post.Stepping over his words.


Not stepping over any words. I meant every word I said, and it's all true. I don't need a partner to open a 480v breaker. As long as the starter is closed and latched, the arc flash hazard is negligible. 

Even when I'm locking out 4160v starters, I work alone. There's no need for a buddy system, as long as I wear my 40 cal suit. Why should I wake up my buddy just to watch me open a breaker? I'm all about safety, but we have been doing things this way for 32 years, and the only injury that was high voltage related was a guy checking 4160v with a wiggie. It blew up and he got burned.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> Dude I agree. All I'm saying is you don't need to call in the troops to turn off a breaker, verify, lock it, and tag it. There are literally no more steps than that


I can tell you have experience in my field. Good man. Cheers.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

IP-EI said:


> I work Industrial Shift Maintenance. Which means my only job is to be there in case something breaks.
> 
> My paper mill is broken down into 4 areas. Primary Products, Utilities, finished Products 1 and 2, and finished products 3.
> 
> ...


Yep. Thank you. That makes sense. Sound like a great gig.


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

yrman said:


> Yep. Thank you. That makes sense. Sound like a great gig.


I'm happy to have been able to clarify. 

And yes, in my opinion, it's an amazing job. That's why I was surprised that many people here are strongly against maintenance work. 

Our mill is surrounded by hundreds of acres of forest, which my company owns. They let us hunt that land, and put traps on that land. My friend Earl checks his hog traps when he isn't busy, and he usually catches several.wild pigs every week. When he catches one, we hang it from a crane, dress it and throw it on the grill to feed the whole crew..I've never had any other job where I could do stuff like that.

I honestly love my work, and my co workers are like family.


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## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

personally i believe all tradesmen deserve an hour lunch.


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