# Ceiling fans



## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

I'm a second year. I added a receptacle into my bedroom. I crawled up into my crawl space and found the junction box that the ceiling fan, switch, and another receptacle meet. I added my romex and ran to receptacle. Now my ceiling fans in the living room won't turn off. Any tips are appreciated. Insults are welcome lol


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Sparky0311 said:


> I'm a second year. I added a receptacle into my bedroom. I crawled up into my crawl space and found the junction box that the ceiling fan, switch, and another receptacle meet. I added my romex and ran to receptacle. Now my ceiling fans in the living room won't turn off. Any tips are appreciated. Insults are welcome lol


Just take apart the wire nut with all the hots in it and put an individual wire nut on each of the hot (probably black)wires in there. I am a very experienced electrician, and I guarantee the living room ceiling fan will now turn off.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Don't feel bad. It happens all the time. It's low on blinker fluid. When you opened that junction box it all evaporated. Go to the supply house and tell them you need a bottle of blinker fluid and that will fix it good as new.


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

MikeFL said:


> Don't feel bad. It happens all the time. It's low on blinker fluid. When you opened that junction box it all evaporated. Go to the supply house and tell them you need a bottle of blinker fluid and that will fix it good as new.


 I hate it when that happens!


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

Do I also lick the hots as well?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Sparky0311 said:


> Do I also lick the hots as well?


Only if you video it and post it here for us old folks to laugh at.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

The problem is with the wrong J-box. The ceiling fan J-box is in the attic, not the crawl space. Crawl spaces are under the house, attics are on top.
Now......where do YOU think you went wrong?
Did you try the wall switch in the living room? Try turning it off.
Hint: The funny thing about Romex fed switches is.......they use the white for the hot to the switch, and blk. for the sw. leg.
Now git back up there and fix it. (and don't tell anybody


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

joebanana said:


> The problem is with the wrong J-box. The ceiling fan J-box is in the attic, not the crawl space. Crawl spaces are under the house, attics are on top.
> Now......where do YOU think you went wrong?
> Did you try the wall switch in the living room? Try turning it off.
> Hint: The funny thing about Romex fed switches is.......they use the white for the hot to the switch, and blk. for the sw. leg.
> Now git back up there and fix it. (and don't tell anybody


 My apologies. It was hot in that attic and my post reflects my brain being boiled lol. After having time to think, I hooked the hot up to the switch leg. So I need to get back up there and change out the hot and neutral. I tried turning the power off in my living room but the fans still run


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

joebanana said:


> The problem is with the wrong J-box. The ceiling fan J-box is in the attic, not the crawl space. Crawl spaces are under the house, attics are on top.
> Now......where do YOU think you went wrong?
> Did you try the wall switch in the living room? Try turning it off.
> Hint: The funny thing about Romex fed switches is.......they use the white for the hot to the switch, and blk. for the sw. leg.
> Now git back up there and fix it. (and don't tell anybody


 I mean change the black to the switch leg and the white to the switch.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You are deviating from what I told you to do. If you start another big California forest fire don't blame me for what you have done.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Okay Marine...here's the deal

You may have confused your switch leg or possibly switch loop
with constant power.

You have to find out what's in the switch box that controls
the ceiling fan.

Open the switch and look. If it's just a white and a black 
both going to a single pole switch...it's a switch loop.
Power in one leg...thru the switch and power back up to
the fan motor.

If this is what it is...go back up to the J box , trace which 
one is the switch loop. If you had inadvertently put the white
colored wire back with all the other whites (neutrals) the circuit
breaker would have tripped , so I don't think you did that.
(you say the motor stays on)

what I think you did was landed both wires from your switch loop 
to the wire going to the fan motor.

Savy?

Thank you for your service....and welcome back to civilian life.


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## SISYPHUS (Aug 13, 2018)

what lighters said*^^^^*, never trust colors for what they _appear _Spark


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sparky0311 said:


> Do I also lick the hots as well?


I like this guy  .


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

Thank you Gentlemen...and ladies haha. Time to crawl back up into the attic. At least it's not 110 up there right now


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Sparky0311 said:


> Thank you Gentlemen...and ladies haha. Time to crawl back up into the attic. At least it's not 110 up there right now



Stick a box fan pointing up into the attic, open the nearest window, then enjoy the less humid space..

Remember to video the licking of wires.. LoL

BTW, a hot sweat soaked person conducts very well and the outer layer shock hertz...


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

Wirenuting said:


> Sparky0311 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Gentlemen...and ladies haha. Time to crawl back up into the attic. At least it's not 110 up there right now
> ...


 Yeah. I had a lot of duck butter going on yesterday. That's how they tested conductors back in the day actually. Read an old NEC from the late 1800s


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Sparky0311 said:


> Yeah. I had a lot of duck butter going on yesterday. *That's how they tested conductors back in the day actually.* *Read an old NEC from the late 1800s*


here is the first NEC from 1897. Can you show me where it says to test like that? I can’t find it.

https://archive.org/details/00701897


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

eddy current said:


> Sparky0311 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. I had a lot of duck butter going on yesterday. *That's how they tested conductors back in the day actually.* *Read an old NEC from the late 1800s*
> ...


 My apologies. I found where I read that. It's a book called Questions and Answers on the National Electric Code by T.S. McLoughlin from 1912. In the section on measuring, testing, and instruments. The electrician detected the presence of voltage by touching the conductors. For bell and signal work they held the conductors up to their tongues.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Sparky0311 said:


> My apologies. I found where I read that. It's a book called Questions and Answers on the National Electric Code by T.S. McLoughlin from 1912. In the section on measuring, testing, and instruments. The electrician detected the presence of voltage by touching the conductors. For bell and signal work they held the conductors up to their tongues.


Thanks.

I have heard so many times that testing with your fingers etc is in older NEC’s and CEC’s but never actually seen it. 

I’ve worked with many that did it that way though.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

At one time hat makers used mercury. Does that mean they should do it today?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Sparky0311 said:


> My apologies. I found where I read that. It's a book called Questions and Answers on the National Electric Code by T.S. McLoughlin from 1912. In the section on measuring, testing, and instruments. The electrician detected the presence of voltage by touching the conductors. For bell and signal work they held the conductors up to their tongues.


I think you were thinking of "American Electrician". 
It mentions it there..


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

eddy current said:


> I’ve worked with many that did it that way though.


It depends on the person as to how much it hurts them. Some people can do it all day, others get knocked back at the first tinkle..

It's not a good practice to do. 

Years ago leather soled shoes were the norm, and it insulated them so-so. 
The humidity also played a big part in it.. Remember I mentioned the skin effect of getting bit when your soaked. 

Your new to the trade and of course you turn everything off before you work, Including things on a shared neutral. But one thing I was taught and tell every new guy we get,,,, "Treat every wire as if it was energized." This way if you ever work a hot circuit, you'll be a little more thoughtful. Trust no one and always test first.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> It depends on the person as to how much it hurts them. Some people can do it all day, others get knocked back at the first tinkle..
> 
> It's not a good practice to do.
> 
> ...


if you consider 25 years new then yes. :wink:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

eddy current said:


> if you consider 25 years new then yes. :wink:


Ah crud, I quoted the wrong comment and then babbled on like I knew what I was talking about.
Please don’t hold it against your elderly southern neighbor, I had a senior moment. 

BTW, you ain’t seen my car keys have you?


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

Fixed it! I had my dad turn the switch on and off and went through the wires with my multimeter and measured ohms. ID'd the switch leg I bypassed and ID'd the rest of the wires in the box. Also, my house is old. The homerun was knob and tube so I had to use my voltage detector to find the neutral. Kind of cool. Never even seen K&T working on the commercial side


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Sparky0311 said:


> My apologies. I found where I read that. It's a book called Questions and Answers on the National Electric Code by T.S. McLoughlin from 1912. In the section on measuring, testing, and instruments. The electrician detected the presence of voltage by touching the conductors. For bell and signal work they held the conductors up to their tongues.


You could probably find it the Craftsman "How to Wire" books also.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sparky0311 said:


> Fixed it! I had my dad turn the switch on and off and went through the wires with my multimeter and measured ohms. ID'd the switch leg I bypassed and ID'd the rest of the wires in the box. Also, my house is old. The homerun was knob and tube so I had to use my voltage detector to find the neutral. Kind of cool. Never even seen K&T working on the commercial side


Now you have a job replacing the remaining knob and tube. A lot of places are like that. The easy rewire has already been done. You will learn fishing skills while you're at it. There are some excellent fishermen on this site who can help you out  .


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

tmessner said:


> Sparky0311 said:
> 
> 
> > My apologies. I found where I read that. It's a book called Questions and Answers on the National Electric Code by T.S. McLoughlin from 1912. In the section on measuring, testing, and instruments. The electrician detected the presence of voltage by touching the conductors. For bell and signal work they held the conductors up to their tongues.
> ...


 I remember reading that section of the book and just started laughing.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I remember my first month on the job as an inspector I was calling out a homeowner on a few little things and he responded "The book says I don't have to do that" and I asked "What book?" and he handed me the Time Life book on home maintenance. He was an older gent and I was very diplomatic with him.


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## Sparky0311 (Jul 19, 2018)

MikeFL said:


> I remember my first month on the job as an inspector I was calling out a homeowner on a few little things and he responded "The book says I don't have to do that" and I asked "What book?" and he handed me the Time Life book on home maintenance. He was an older gent and I was very diplomatic with him.


 Haha


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