# Romex installed in copper tubeing



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Since someone will as the obvious question of: "why", customer recently remodeled their house. They now want heated floors in the kitchen. The AC condenser was right by the kitchen and the tubing from near the panel to the kitchen wall is now abandoned. Obviously if we could snake wire through that tubing, we could save the customer a lot of money and drywall repairs.


This was the GC's Idea. At first I thought "no way", but why not?


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

If you can get the appropriate size romex thru I don't see any reason not to. I wouldn't pull individual wires in it since obviously not a listed conduit but otherwise I don't see any difference in that than any other chase or whatever you fish wire thru.. use uf cable if it goes under a slab obviously also..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

five.five-six said:


> Since someone will as the obvious question of: "why", customer recently remodeled their house. They now want heated floors in the kitchen. The AC condenser was right by the kitchen and the tubing from near the panel to the kitchen wall is now abandoned. Obviously if we could snake wire through that tubing, we could save the customer a lot of money and drywall repairs.
> 
> 
> This was the GC's Idea. At first I thought "no ", but why not?


The copper has to be rated as a raceway.

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(A) Examination. In judging equipment, considerations such as the following shall be evaluated:
(1) 
Suitability for installation and use in conformity with the provisions of this Code
Informational Note:  Suitability of equipment use may be identified by a description marked on or provided with a product to identify the suitability of the product for a specific purpose, environment, or application. Special conditions of use or other limitations and other pertinent information may be marked on the equipment, included in the product instructions, or included in the appropriate listing and labeling information. Suitability of equipment may be evidenced by listing or labeling.
(2) 
Mechanical strength and durability, including, for parts designed to enclose and protect other equipment, the adequacy of the protection thus provided
(3) 
Wire-bending and connection space
(4) 
Electrical insulation
(5) 
Heating effects under normal conditions of use and also under abnormal conditions likely to arise in service
(6) 
Arcing effects
(7) 
Classification by type, size, voltage, current capacity, and specific use
(8) 
Other factors that contribute to the practical safeguarding of persons using or likely to come in contact with the equipment
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> The copper has to be rated as a raceway.
> 
> 110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
> (A) Examination. In judging equipment, considerations such as the following shall be evaluated:
> ...


Why does it need to be a raceway? If you're pulling a listed cable assembly thru it how is it any different than drilling a really long hole and pulling a cable in it?


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

It's a sleeve not a raceway. Bond it to ground, bush the ends and go for it.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

farlsincharge said:


> It's a sleeve not a raceway. Bond it to ground, bush the ends and go for it.


That's kinda what I am thinking. Any concerns about inductance? as a non ferric metal, it would probably be less than EMT.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

five.five-six said:


> That's kinda what I am thinking. Any concerns about inductance? as a non ferric metal, it would probably be less than EMT.


Definitely not a concern


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

farlsincharge said:


> It's a sleeve not a raceway. Bond it to ground, bush the ends and go for it.


I agree. It doesn't make sense to bust up walls when a perfectly capable sleeve is already installed. 

I'd ask what makes this method any less safe than running through bored holes in studs?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I wouldn't think twice about it. A sleeve is a sleeve.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Hippie said:


> Why does it need to be a raceway? If you're pulling a listed cable assembly thru it how is it any different than drilling a really long hole and pulling a cable in it?


I think that if it's bonded on both ends it should be fine.

I think it should be approved as a raceway so we can make the helper pull wires through elbows.....:laughing:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> I think that if it's bonded on both ends it should be fine.
> 
> I think it should be approved as a raceway so we can make the helper pull wires through elbows.....:laughing:


i kinda thought you were against this,harry, but i dont see anything in the code you quoted that says you cant. and im guessing now youre seing it that way too?:thumbup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

farlsincharge said:


> It's a sleeve not a raceway. Bond it to ground, bush the ends and go for it.


I would say you can not use it as a sleeve. Good luck finding an approved method of bonding it and an approved method of bushings for the ends.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Could someone give me the NEC definition of a sleeve?:001_huh:


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Who cares if it's approved or not?

Does your common sense as an electrician suggest anything about this being hazardous?

Doubt it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Could someone give me the NEC definition of a sleeve?:001_huh:


Article 1000....:whistling2:
sleeve
slēv/
noun
1.
the part of a garment that wholly or partly covers a person's arm.
"a shirt with the sleeves rolled up"
:laughing:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

TGGT said:


> Who cares if it's approved or not?
> 
> Does your common sense as an electrician suggest anything about this being hazardous?.


Actually it could be a potentially dangerous installation. Tubing could become energized, the coolant that used to run in the tubing could have some remaining residue inside and could degrade the insulation on the romex or wire installed. Part of being an electrician is figuring out how to do it right and sometimes doing it the right way isn't necessarily the easiest way.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Article 1000....:whistling2:
> sleeve
> slēv/
> noun
> ...


Go drink a sleeve or two of beer.:drink::drink::drink::laughing:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> I would say you can not use it as a sleeve. Good luck finding an approved method of bonding it and an approved method of bushings for the ends.


It's a copper pipe....Bond it like its a copper pipe with a pipe clamp. :laughing:


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Chris1971 said:


> Actually it could be a potentially dangerous installation. Tubing could become energized, the coolant that used to run in the tubing could have some remaining residue inside and could degrade the insulation on the romex or wire installed. Part of being an electrician is figuring out how to do it right and sometimes doing it the right way isn't necessarily the easiest way.


If it's grounded it'll trip the breaker in 10 years, hell make that 50 or 100 years.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

It would be a nice surprise for the plumber on the next remodel when he cuts into with his sawzall.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

freeagnt54 said:


> It would be a nice surprise for the plumber on the next remodel when he cuts into with his sawzall.


_ "No wonder it don't work. These pipes is filled with wires!"_


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> _ "No wonder it don't work. These pipes is filled with wires!"_


One of the best stooge episodes ever.

_Turn on anything you'll get it_

_This house sure gone crazy_

_This television has amazing realism_


Larry popping up out of the front lawn, going back down and then grabbing his hat. 


Good stuff. :laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

If it is a slab on grade, you can't use NM in the sleeve.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I would never run wires thru copper tubing that's been abandoned. Have you ever seen a plumber ream every opening as he slips it in a coupling?
Can you see inside the soldered pipe and tell if its sharp or if a blob of solder is sticking inside?

Years ago people used the old black iron has line to refeed the hanging retrofitted gas lights. Those were bad enough on the romex. 

IMO the customer isn't saving money. The installer is only looking to get thru the job faster.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

five.five-six said:


> Since someone will as the obvious question of: "why", customer recently remodeled their house. They now want heated floors in the kitchen. The AC condenser was right by the kitchen and the tubing from near the panel to the kitchen wall is now abandoned. Obviously if we could snake wire through that tubing, we could save the customer a lot of money and drywall repairs.
> 
> 
> This was the GC's Idea. At first I thought "no way", but why not?


Look up...Romex uses, and where permitted.
IMO, The copper might sometime in the future be mistaken for a water line and someone could be surprised when cutting into it.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

334.15


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> 334.15


What?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

300.10 exc 1


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> 300.10 exc 1


867.5309


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> 867.5309


hax want your phone #, not me :laughing::whistling2:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> hax want your phone #, not me :laughing::whistling2:




He is probably looking for a testicle donation.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> He is probably looking for a testicle donation.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

farlsincharge said:


> It's a sleeve not a raceway. Bond it to ground, bush the ends and go for it.


sounds more like a raceway, he is going from the panel location to the kitchen, your trying to skate around the requirement.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> One of the best stooge episodes ever...


 I've probably used that "pipes is full of wires" quote a thousand times. I'm thinking of having it engraved on my tombstone.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

BBQ said:


> 867.5309


I got it, I got it!


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

five.five-six said:


> I got it, I got it!


face palm


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

five.five-six said:


> I got it, I got it!


Just a word of wisdom from an older guy. If you try to save a customer money. He will not RESPECT you for that.He will EXPECT you for that.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Shock-Therapy said:


> face palm


For a good time callllll!



Anyways, this wasn't for me. I was asking for the contractor that I apprenticed for. Customer decided to forgo the heated floor in the kitchen so the point is moot now.


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