# Power Saver



## iamcarbman (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a customer that is interested in a device called a POWER SAVER. I have done some research but would like more information in order to either recommend or to discourage use of this type of a device. Thanks!!


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

iamcarbman said:


> I have a customer that is interested in a device called a POWER SAVER. I have done some research but would like more information in order to either recommend or to discourage use of this type of a device. Thanks!!



Don't waste your money. It is pretty much a scam.

It may actual save money in commercial applications where there are large motor.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is a comment by Michael Bluejay



> *Here's why I don't think this saves any appreciable amount of electricity:*
> 
> *A utility company employee writes:*
> 
> ...


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## TheElectricalGuru (Jan 16, 2007)

I have a question on these things possibly......We know that in a Residential environment the POCO charges by KWH and the meter does spin faster in theory the more wattage that is being used...we can all see this when you go to a meter and someone turns on the strip heat....

Now......granted I know the NEC Code but I am no Electrical Engineer so I have a question.....since consumption is consumption and V x A x PF = W......if something slowed down the meter physically, and I mean to the point you can actually SEE it slow down. Would it not actually save electricity to the consumer?

I am not convinced it would ACTUALLY show a KWH meter down regardless of anything they did, I can see where it would slow down a KVA Meter but not KWH...am I missing something here?

I am a bit nieve at how the poco actually does all this but if you slow down the rotation of the meter itself would it reduce the costs to the consumer? But I am not an electrical engineer and yet even at that I find it hard to believe a capacity trying to bring as much of the load into unity or to a purly resistive load would help slow anything down...I can see how it might help the power company to get rid of a lag but they dont want a lead also.....this gets very confusing to convey and I thank "Charlie b" over on holts site for helping me break this down.

I understand how they charge and the math behind it....just puzzled because I have seen bills where consumers say they saved money but again could it simply be the plazebo effect ( I might have spelled that wrong...lol )

I like to understand its concepts better. If the meter reader is actually looking ( on the old ones ) for the numbers based on revolutions and readings, would not slowing down the revolutions save the consumer money ( Yes, it would )but even if we are talking slightly and if so is it a scam or just a realistic expectation of savings that need to be conveyed.


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## DHC (Jan 29, 2009)

*power savers*

I believe these things to be a scam as well. I have done some research on one of these called a powerworx e3. There is a contractor in my area talking about these for residential and light commercial customers and I was curious. From what I gather they are nothing more than a external mounted panel surge unit that they want to charge $700 for. The website talks about swags and swells from the utility being corrected and noise filtration and protection from spikes all your average panel surge unit will do for much less. As far as PF correction they may have added some capicitance to these units but not enough to do much in my mind and if you have energy star appliances nothing is needed trying to correct it anyway; with an out of the box unit genericly built for every application you could create a leading PF which is still a power waste. All your switchgear companies have power factor correction capability but nothing for resi apps because the need is nonexistant. I actually had a long detailed discussion with Eaton Corp on this subject and they provided a boat load of info debunking these devices. I can attempt to forward this info if requested (I say attempt because these PDF's are very large). As far as your customer is concerned I would push them into some hard proven ways to save with panel surge, CFL's, programmable HVAC thermostats set to raise and lower home temp to times inhabited, in wall occupancy sensors, and so on. There are so many other forms of green living products and pratices out there that you can give hard facts and instances that aren't secretive on there operation that can protect your credibility as an electrician and professional.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

if you dont know nothing about the product you should sut up, I been installing power savers and not the powerworx product and have nothing but praises and thanks from all my customers, Do some research and use the right meters and you will see,so you people who want the power saver dont listen to people who dont have them


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> if you dont know nothing about the product you should sut up, I been installing power savers and not the powerworx product and have nothing but praises and thanks from all my customers, Do some research and use the right meters and you will see,so you people who want the power saver dont listen to people who dont have them



Hey Buddy...Do you want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge? Cheep. 

They are totaly worthless for residential 240/120 services.

Ever Look inside one? well here's your chance.....

View attachment 1010


View attachment 1011


And there is a reason it is "Sealed For your Protection".

Because they don't want you to see what is inside.:no:

Carry On!


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

John said:


> Ever Look inside one? well here's your chance.....
> 
> View attachment 1010
> 
> ...



You just voided the warranty there Einstein :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*Your wrong*

Good for you you open the box,well see you never installed a real power saver,that one your showed me is not the one I installed, you want to buy somthing buy a book on how to power electricty,can tell you just a kid who thinks he all that......guess all my customers are liars hahaha installed over 30 of them know and not one unhappy customer,good luck working with you junk saver


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> You just voided the warranty there Einstein :laughing::laughing::laughing:


You should of said......

View attachment 1012




:thumbup:


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> Good for you you open the box,well see you never installed a real power saver,that one your showed me is not the one I installed, you want to buy somthing buy a book on how to power electricty,can tell you just a kid who thinks he all that......guess all my customers are liars hahaha installed over 30 of them know and not one unhappy customer,good luck working with you junk saver


Ignorance is Bliss. 
Especially if you tell them that it silently works while they sleep.

And I quote: "Opening the unit without prior permission from EcoTrust Energy will void its warranty coverage. Contact EcoTrust Energy at 1.800.xxx.xxxxx if you have any questions."

Wonder why? Hiding something? UL™ ® approved?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> .... installed over 30 of them know and not one unhappy customer....



...maybe they just stopped calling you. :blink:


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*power saver*

you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*windmills*

Have you ever installed a windmill for powering a home? Bet your going to tell me there junk too


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

theres motors in washing machines and dryers, well pumps ect


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

donfta said:


> you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


Well I see you are trying very hard to make friends here. Calling people names will get you nowhere. If you and your customers are happy fine but there have been many studies and news stories on this issue and they all seem to say the same-- it is not worth it for residential use. You believe what you want but quit the bad mouthing.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

ok im sorry to upset some of yous, but a washer, dryer,well pump ,jucuzzi, air coditioner all work well with this and if you guys dont think so well ok


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Don...explain to us ignorant folk just how this thing works.


Now is your chance to shine and prove yourself and the product.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

donfta said:


> you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


 :stupid:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

donfta said:


> you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


 
Seems like you are the one that needs an education dude.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*dude*

ok dude,why dont you tell us how a power saver works:whistling2:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> ok dude,why dont you tell us how a power saver works:whistling2:


I'm still waiting for the salesman/installer to tell me why I need this product.......


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


Speaking of education, why don't you learn punctuation, grammar, and spelling.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

donfta said:


> ok dude,why dont you tell us how a power saver works:whistling2:


 
I haven't actually paid much attention to these things. I was just commenting on your attitude. It looks like a capacitor bank...but since a house doesn't really have that many linear loads and houses are mostly comprised of resistive loads I can't see it doing all that much for the customer. But, like I said I haven't done my research on these things.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*ok teacher*



JohnJ0906 said:


> Speaking of education, why don't you learn punctuation, grammar, and spelling.[/quote
> 
> ok mr grammar, still riding with the circus?:boxing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Come on Don...you're not winning anyone over on this product shooting the breeze.

Like I said 5 hours ago:


Celtic said:


> Don...explain to us ignorant folk just how this thing works.
> 
> 
> Now is your chance to shine and prove yourself and the product.



It may be time for you to "put up or shut up".
We have given you the floor to explain how this item works and why we should consider becoming installers as well.
Until you have answered the question, there really is no point in continuing this charade.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*power saver*



cdnelectrician said:


> I haven't actually paid much attention to these things. I was just commenting on your attitude. It looks like a capacitor bank...but since a house doesn't really have that many linear loads and houses are mostly comprised of resistive loads I can't see it doing all that much for the customer. But, like I said I haven't done my research on these things.


 
you are correct,I do electical house audits,and for a small home no this really dosent make much of a diiference,But know for a large home with central ac,well pumps,jucuzzi,hot tubs washer,dryer,trash compactors,pools thing like that it really dose work,and for a commercial kitchen with walk in coolers ,ect So Im not here to fight this whole sight about the power saver,just dont think it was right to say it was crap if you know nothing about it thats all.Im getting into windmill power know for the price its well worth the money......... I tell the home owners right up front if it will work for there home,tell them to change bulbs out and things like that,maybe ballersters to for smaller bulbs:tank:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> .. for a large home .. it really dose work,and for a commercial kitchen with walk in coolers ,ect


Telling me "it works" does not tell me "how it works".



donfta said:


> So Im not here to fight this whole sight about the power saver,just dont think it was right to say it was crap if you know nothing about it thats all.


You're not fighting the whole site...just telling me how it works - if you know.
Until you can tell me how it works, should I believe it does or doesn't perform as claimed?


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*power save*

dont give a dam really if no one listens to me


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*bull*****

go to www.powersave.com


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> ok celtic go to www.saveoneletric.net/industrial.html and all the info is there





donfta said:


> go to www.powersave.com


How about you explain it to me...like I was a customer you were trying to sell to.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

ok,hi im enviormental eletric and if i can svae you 25 percent on your electric bill a month would you be interested ? So from there if they say yes I say lets see what we can do to help you out,and from there I show them the bulbs there burning are wrong and maybe the floresent lights are the old one and tell them to replace ballersters and put smaller bulbs in them,then I check the water heater to see if thats electric and I recommend a gas instint hot unit,and if they have a pool and hot tub and jucuzzi and well and things with motors or transformers then I show them all the info on the powersaver,look celtic i dont give a dam about the saver im just trying to feed my family and things are dead hear. I dont know where your at but right know ill do what it takes to make a buck.This guy from dunkin dounuts wants 10 of them for his stores,so you find the owner of one of those stores and Ill bet he ows 5 of them,I bite at typing and for me to explain how it works I just show them the brochure,and tell them the web site .There is 3 types 1200 3200 3400 12 is for the house 32 is for commercial 3 phase 200 amp 34 is for 3 phase 400 amp:thumbsup:


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

You're not even a electrian are you? Do you know what power factor means? I wouldn't feel right scamming people out of their hard earned money. The thing doesn't work buddy, do you get it. You might as well swing a dead chicken around your head and chant to your electric meter. If your customers are saving money they are using less power. As in kwh.
That is, smaller bulbs, turning off lights, ect, just like mom taught you.

I have a bringe in Nothern Arizona I will sell yea cheap.

I smell a troll.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> ok,hi im enviormental eletric and if i can svae you 25 percent on your electric bill a month would you be interested ? So from there if they say yes I say lets see what we can do to help you out,and from there I show them the bulbs there burning are wrong and maybe the floresent lights are the old one and tell them to replace ballersters and put smaller bulbs in them,then I check the water heater to see if thats electric and I recommend a gas instint hot unit,


Those items right there reduce the power used...
LMAO...part of the "sale" is changing an electric water heater to a gas fired instant hot...OMG, you can say that to people with a straight face?




donfta said:


> and if they have a pool and hot tub and jucuzzi and well and things with motors or transformers then I show them all the info on the powersaver,look celtic i dont give a dam about the saver im just trying to feed my family and things are dead hear.


I don't give a dam either...but it takes some set of nuts to tell us the thing is not a POS when in fact it is.
The power usage was reduced significantly before that box was installed - that's a BS shell game and YOU KNOW IT.



donfta said:


> I dont know where your at but right know ill do what it takes to make a buck.


Obviously....




donfta said:


> This guy from dunkin dounuts wants 10 of them for his stores,so you find the owner of one of those stores and Ill bet he ows 5 of them, I bite at typing and for me to explain how it works I just show them the brochure,and tell them the web site .There is 3 types 1200 3200 3400 12 is for the house 32 is for commercial 3 phase 200 amp 34 is for 3 phase 400 amp:thumbsup:












If you showed up at my home or business to do a job, and then attempted to sell me this POS w/o being able to explain how it works w/o sending me to some website - you'd be leaving with a boot mark on the seat of your pants.


My suggestion is to crawl back under whatever rock you slithered out from and be seen no more.


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## Rafer (Feb 12, 2009)

Don - Your grammar and punctuation are so bad I can barely make sense of your posts. Dropping out of the 5th grade was probably not a good idea.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> for me to explain how it works I just show them the brochure,and tell them the web site .



So you don't really know how it works either.



> ok mr grammar, still riding with the circus?:boxing:


Interesting comment, coming from a clown.

I am not normally rude, especially to new members, but you have been insulting from your 1st post. You shouldn't tell people to get an education, when yours seems to have been lacking.

OK, 1 more time. You claim these are useful products. You claim they will save a customer a significant amount by correcting power factor, EVEN THOUGH residential customers are not charged for power factor correction. Explain how.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

This thread has some interesting dialogue but it is all tainted by the lack of respect for each other. Is calling each other names really necessary? Make your points without the name calling - it does nothing to help your posts. 

If an english teacher came in here and read this stuff then he/she would probably tear most of our posts apart.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*Ignorant people*

Just tried to explain the power saver to some of these guys and all I get is you have bad grammar and crawl under a rock. Im sure there both out of work,cause everthing they say is negitive or rude.Guess the power saver company is a big fake lololol ! celtic I tried to explain to you like a nice guy and all you did was put me down with the circus clown,Take a good look in the mirror celtic before you tell people to climb under a rock lolol. See why no one goes to this site,you people must be from the west with all them nice comments...............:surrender:




 what him say


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> Just tried to explain the power saver to some of these guys and all I get is you have bad grammar and crawl under a rock. Im sure there both out of work,cause everthing they say is negitive or rude.Guess the power saver company is a big fake lololol ! celtic I tried to explain to you like a nice guy and all you did was put me down with the circus clown,Take a good look in the mirror celtic before you tell people to climb under a rock lolol. See why no one goes to this site,you people must be from the west with all them nice comments...............



Don, you didn't explain anything.
You tried to....but failed miserably in every aspect.


I still can't get over the _claimed_ savings achieved by that product when one of the points is swapping out the the H20 heater ~ that is truly comedic genius :jester:


I'll give you yet _another_ chance to redeem yourself

So IF some rube of a HO was to swallow the load your selling...how much would it cost?
Let's talk REAL dollars here...cost to replace lamps, swap out the WH [LMAO], etc and then actually pay you to furnish and install the product ~ how much?:whistling2:


BTW, I would like to publicly thank you for that heart felt, well thought out PM you sent me. 
I say "I would like to..." ~ because it ain't gonna happen :no::laughing:

Would anyone like to see the PM? :thumbsup:


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Would anyone like to see the PM? :thumbsup:


Sure...want to swap PM'S. :thumbsup:


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## seo (Oct 28, 2008)

This has been an interesting post to read.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> Just tried to explain the power saver to some of these guys and all I get is you have bad grammar and crawl under a rock.


You explained nothing.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

John said:


> Sure...want to swap PM'S. :thumbsup:


You got a "love letter" too?

:laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

seo said:


> This has been an interesting post to read.



Don was given the floor to turn us into believers...on more than one occasion...and the offer remains.

....maybe he will have the gumption to "know when to fold 'em"....maybe not :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Don:

I have followed this post from the get go and followed these "TYPES" of products for years and while I am no engineer I have been involved with many engineers, from utilities, independent EE firms and energy power consultants and all agree on one thing.

These are smoke and mirrors CRAP, snake oil and at some point the when someone starts a class action lawsuit, firms that sell this junk will be in the courts and possibly those that install this stuff will follow, unless they can provide hard evidence of a REAL benefit.

But I am willing to listen to some intelligent factual data that supports your side in this ongoing post, WHICH NO ONE HAS EVER SUBMITTED.

I do not care about name calling, or the grammar either of us use in achieving the answer.

How does your product work?
Do you have evidence, REAL evidence of this product working?

Aditionally this product has been beat to death on other forums

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=104549&highlight=power+factor

The hard time you are recieving may be related to the fact that in ALL PROFESSIONAL forums, those that sell this product have been vilified and the reason is everyone promoting this product (or one similar to this) has not provided and engineering data to back the product up.

The electrical field has one thing going for this is not magical or mystical everything can be mathmatically worked out. For this product it is not there. Typical power factor correction devices that do save industrial firms money have stepped capacitors and measure KVA/KW and correct for low power factor accordingly and this is in areas where there is a pf penalty. This device has a fixed capicitor and cannot adjust according to load which means it might be benificial or could be determental to billing IF THERE WAS A PENALTY FOR low pf IN THE RESIDENTIAL MARKET, which to my knowledge there is not in any of the 50 states.

In my opinion if you are selling this device and have no hard, fast, REAL evidence the product works (which it does not unless you can prove different), then you are lowering your self in our chosen profession.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

brian john said:


> But I am willing to listen to some intelligent factual data that supports your side in this ongoing post, WHICH NO ONE HAS EVER SUBMITTED.
> 
> I do not care about name calling, or the grammar either of us use in achieving the answer.
> 
> ...


another opinion on it:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> You got a "love letter" too?
> 
> :laughing:


I got one as well.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> How does your product work?
> Do you have evidence, REAL evidence of this product working?


I'm still waiting, Don.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I got one as well.


Well....Valentine's Day _is_ just around the corner ~ LMAO :laughing:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Well....Valentine's Day _is_ just around the corner ~ LMAO :laughing:













I don't know what he is selling, but I'm not buying.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The facts are, this product like many others like it are a ripoff and those that sell and install this product should be brought up on fruard charges.

Unless they can post something to prove me wrong?

I have read NO POSITIVE reviews of this product on numerous forums and as stated from engineers in the field.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I was hoping Don would post something of interest to bolster his side of this discussion either he backed off or is gathering a wealth of material to hit us with later...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

brian john said:


> I was hoping Don would post something of interest to bolster his side of this discussion either he backed off or is gathering a wealth of material to hit us with later...


He might be able to read the websites and gather the info needed...but if it became a Q & A series :no:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, I decided to, as he said, educate myself.

There is next to no REAL information on the Power Saver site. I certainly won't buy one of these to test myself.

Here are the specs. It looks to me that there is very little if any to be said about the actual power factor correction.

I am certainly willing to look at something with an open mind, but what I see on their web site won't change my mind.

If Don would like to post some facts, some actual measurements before and after installation, I would like to see them. Measurements with the Power Saver *ONLY* - no other changes in the house.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

I think we have been had by a troll. Hope he got off on it. I do hear this kind of non-sense from non-electricians all the time. Soon as you mention you are a non believer in their fantasies, backed up with facts, they get all huffy. Usually goes: Well I know this gizmo works I've seen it my self or I know someone that knows this works, ect. A wise man told me once, You can't argue with ignorance.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

I think I’ve figured out how the Power Saver works. You purchase it direct from the manufacturer for $700.00 and then I install it in less than an hour for $350.00. That’s how it _works_.


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

Don, go ahead and man up and admit it you are a hack and a sleazy salesman nothing more. You have jumped off in a place where many of the responders to your post have forgotten more about this trade than you will ever know.
Face the facts you have no idea what you are doing except screwing people. You cannot answer the fact that residential services have no PF or peak demand factors. You state you recommend replacing HWH with gas on demand heaters. Well duh, if I remove my water heater my power bill will be less. The small savings that might be had with this product. How long would it take to recoup the investment if ever?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

bauler said:


> I think we have been had by a troll.


IF, he was a company sponsored troll ~ he just buried the company. :yes:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

brian john said:


> The facts are, this product like many others like it are a ripoff and those that sell and install this product should be brought up on fruard charges.
> 
> Unless they can post something to prove me wrong?
> 
> I have read NO POSITIVE reviews of this product on numerous forums and as stated from engineers in the field.


When it comes to power quality and Brian says its snake oil... then it is just that.

This top was quite an interesting read though!:whistling2:

~Matt


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

By the way.. BryanMD - That picture made me laugh pretty good.

~Matt


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*make me laugh*

Hey kids,your mom no where your at? The restraunt up the street has a power save,the OWNER is a MASTER ELECTRICAN, his monthly Bill is 650 a month the other restraunt down the street is 1300 a month with out it,and it the same type of restraunt same amount of coolers,guess mike the MASTER electrican is a troll to, You children are not worth the time,and further more all you do is insult......go find mommy is time to get your asses clean............:stupid:


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*marylandschool*

They but one in maryland school savings over 5000,000 for the year,There stupid to


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> Hey kids,your mom no where your at? The restraunt up the street has a power save,the OWNER is a MASTER ELECTRICAN, his monthly Bill is 650 a month the other restraunt down the street is 1300 a month with out it,and it the same type of restraunt same amount of coolers,guess mike the MASTER electrican is a troll to, You children are not worth the time,and further more all you do is insult......go find mommy is time to get your asses clean............:stupid:


I know this guy...he knows this other guy...and he built a car that runs on water.



donfta said:


> They but one in maryland school savings over 5000,000 for the year,There stupid to


You really shouldn't post while drunk/stoned 


But do come back [after you've sobered up] with your 3rd grade education and amaze us all with your explanation of how this thing works.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> They but one in maryland school savings over 5000,000 for the year,There stupid to


I'll ask yet again - where is your data? Post some facts. Facts. You have yet to do so.

On a side note, childish and insulting PMs don't do much to make your case.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*chumps*

you gotta be ****ting me,Third grade education hahaaa,ok my son has skulls on his lunch box for school and hes in the second grade,hahaaa............If you kids new what a capacitor dose then its really a no brainer...just keep talking smack ,you need to stop drinking..hahaaa...I know your both master electricans right hahahaa,


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*Power Saver?*

Well let me ask a question a watt meter measures watts and cant measure reactance so it may work with motors in a bigg commercial service area that can tell what there PF is , but a normal home no . This would only save pennys which one could not tell , its just a power factor correction device power company charges by the watts you use ,not by pf in your home they dont care or check ? and does your company do a power factor load study meaning adjust that device to that service or that home owners electrical service or commercial service if you just install a box allready built and no adjustments made or test or study performed its no good . You can not save power in watts you use power watts you just adjust pf to cut out reactance but its not measured by a watt meter ? funny thing is if your pf gets worst in your home your watt meter measures less wattage . And this computer messes up power factor comments lets talk power savor


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> you gotta be ****ting me,Third grade education hahaaa,ok my son has skulls on his lunch box for school and hes in the second grade,hahaaa............If you kids new what a capacitor dose then its really a no brainer...just keep talking smack ,you need to stop drinking..hahaaa...I know your both master electricans right hahahaa,


Don, 
I'm still waiting for the answer to a couple of questions I asked of you:

02-11-2009, 05:20 PM 


Celtic said:


> Don...explain to us ignorant folk just how this thing works.
> 
> Now is your chance to shine and prove yourself and the product.


It's been quite a few days now....still trying to understand the literature?


...and the follow up:
02-12-2009, 09:53 AM


Celtic said:


> I'll give you yet _another_ chance to redeem yourself
> 
> So IF some rube of a HO was to swallow the load your selling...how much would it cost?
> Let's talk REAL dollars here...cost to replace lamps, swap out the WH [LMAO], etc and then actually pay you to furnish and install the product ~ how much?:whistling2:



You have been given ample time to state your case and impress us.
You have not been able to provide any documentation to support your wild claims.
The only conclusion any rational person can come to is:
*Power-Saver is a waste of money, time and effort.*

AMF.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I skimmed this whole subject in about 5 minutes just now. I think that Mr donfta has found himself a perfect electrical niche. A niche is a premier thing for any electrical service to have cornered. Some do solar, some do controls, Mr donfta sells the public horse****:laughing: 
As long as he makes a profit at it and does no real harm to John Q Public with his horse**** device, he has my macblessing. After all, its the new American way to dishoner oneself with horse**** that is put forth. Look at what our country's new fearless wonderful leader says and you get my drift.:whistling2:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

He is obviously
A) a troll, and 
B) not an electrician.

I was going to put him on the ignore list, but there is still a little entertainment left, I think.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I was going to put him on the ignore list, but there is still a little entertainment left, I think.


I considered that option as you said...then decided: WHY?
He really isn't that entertaining.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*windmill power*

:boxing: Let see,I have wired over a 100 homes that were over 3000 sq ft every one of them,I have wired many commercial buildings with me and a helper so I guess I just got lucky and the power came on to every job !:laughing:

Has anyone wired up a windmill for house power ?


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*facts*



JohnJ0906 said:


> I'll ask yet again - where is your data? Post some facts. Facts. You have yet to do so.
> 
> On a side note, childish and insulting PMs don't do much to make your case.


 John go to the website and go to top of page where it says faqs and hit on it it will tell you what info your looking for


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

donfta said:


> John go to the website and go to top of page where it says faqs and hit on it it will tell you what info your looking for


I did.
You have installed many of these. I'd like to know the data you have recorded from these installs. Before and after, without any other changes.

I have heard a lot of claims, but no proof that these things will save significant money, *by themselves.*


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*power save*

CBS Alanta ch 46 just did a show on tv supporting the power save


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Donfta, do you have a link to the TV show?

I looked at the FAQ at http://www.saveonelectric.net/powerfactor.html
What a pile of steaming bovine excrement.

Correcting the power factor on a house does nothing. Go troll somewhere else.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> CBS Alanta ch 46 just did a show on tv supporting the power save


The show that "just" aired was from Apr 24, 2008.

The bottom line:


> “I’m looking forward to cranking it up [.EDIT] his Central A/C[./EDIT],” said Greg. “So we’ll see what happens!”


So where is the follow up?


Anyway...



JohnJ0906 said:


> I have heard a lot of claims, but no proof that these things will save significant money, *by themselves.*



There is still 0 proof that it works.

I am sure I could provide "testimony" from "someone" that had the device installed and they will say it does not work.


Once again Don, you fail.


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## donfta (Feb 11, 2009)

*to many ignorant people*

bashing people is all you do on this site,ill never post again,and if you think the power save dosent work with motors then you need to hang up your tools


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

donfta said:


> ...ill never post again....


You and the "Power Save" have something in common - false promises.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Here is another report with a different spin:

*"Power Factor" and devices that claim to save energy by fixing it"


:thumbsup:


*


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

will it ever end? I don't believe don can help but keep posting.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Have we gone "feline"? :laughing:


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Quite a thread. I have to say one thing for the don. He doesn't seem to back down when confronted. I am sure, however, that he won't produce any hard science for the gizmo.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Don I THINK I was polite and asked for facts to back up your argument, I have yet to see any FACTS.

Saying two restaurants use electricity and one saves money over the other one is not proof of anything.

This information should be very simple to come by and the manufacture should be able to provide the proof.

Using a resistive and inductive load banks and a recording power meter, measuring volts, amps kva, kw, kwhr, vars and pf set up a test varying load and pf, measurements with and without device. I am a small company and I can perform this test in my shop, surely they can do the same.

I hate to be cynical but I have been around this dog and pony show before, this is not some hot new product (unless you can PROVE different). This device has been around in one or another incarnation for quite a while and when energy prices go up it hits the market in some new packaging but the same old stuff.

I ask you POLITELY and many others on here have asked the same. FURNISH THE PROFF, documentation of test. In reality if this device did work as you claim, the firm that manufactures it would have it certified by independent labs in a hot red second.

As of now it appears the Sham-Wow has more credibility and reportedly that product has all the absorbency of a plastic bag.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

brian john said:


> As of now it appears the Sham-Wow has more credibility and reportedly that product has all the absorbency of a plastic bag.



LMAO

I was thinking Vince would be a great pitch man for the "Power Saver"


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Does this sound like donfta? :whistling2:

I think so. 

View attachment 1038


http://www.usesmfg.com/salesrep.html

Carry On!


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

John said:


> Does this sound like donfta? :whistling2:
> 
> I think so.
> 
> ...


I would hope a salesman would be smoother than he has been.


----------



## John (Jan 22, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I would hope a salesman would be smoother than he has been.


He's trying to...just doesn't have the "Used Car Salesman" technique down pat yet. :no:


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Hey, my wife bought the Sham-Wow set and I have to admit, they work. Most people who say they don't work have tried to use them dry. You have to get them wet and wring them out once for them to really absorb liquid. Frankly, I am offended you would put the Sham-Wow in the same categorie as the Powersaver. Now if the Powersaver was made in Germany, you'd have to give it a second look because you know the Germans make good stuff!


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

amptech said:


> Hey, my wife bought the Sham-Wow set and I have to admit, they work. Most people who say they don't work have tried to use them dry. You have to get them wet and wring them out once for them to really absorb liquid. Frankly, I am offended you would put the Sham-Wow in the same categorie as the Powersaver. Now if the Powersaver was made in Germany, you'd have to give it a second look because you know the Germans make good stuff!


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

donfta said:


> CBS Alanta ch 46 just did a show on tv supporting the power save


Is this the same CBS that got caught tampering with the crash testing of Chevy pick-ups? Rigging it with explosives, so when you watched the footage the explosion started a frame or two before the impact.

Was does Geraldo think of the power saver?


----------



## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> Quite a thread. I have to say one thing for the don. He doesn't seem to back down when confronted. I am sure, however, that he won't produce any hard science for the gizmo.


Saddam Hussain and his 2 sons didn't back down either.

I wonder how things turned out for them?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If this thing worked would we be wasting our time asking Don for proof of this device or would we be running out to buy one. I dare think we'd all be running.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I just found a cool new way to lower your electric bill ~ static.

Yup...I'm going to save HUGE BANK running my appliances off a charge I can generate for free with no installation charges.

If anyone wants to buy into this new franchise that is literally about to EXPLODE...let me know.

Be prepared to pony up some cash though.
While it's free ~ the details cost.


----------



## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a story about another one of these gagits, just plug it in





 
Not sure I did that right, heres the link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj-Ddg9XCA


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If Don post again I would suggest you contact PowerSaver (if you have any connections there) and get one of there engineers (if they have any on staff) to post here. I assure you and them if they have any evidence of this product actually saving money the members of this forum will be a major benefit their sales.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Hello, HELLO, HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO Don are you there?


----------



## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

think i'm gonna get me some of that " power saver " stuff. should i get the cellulose or the fiberglass kind ???? about 12"-16" do it ??


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

donfta said:


> you just dont get it people like you are ignorant,you never installed one you never had one but you know there no good,can tell your not in your own business,still have your mommy wipping your ass I bet.....And I still have the same people I do work for call me all the time when they need work done,so go get yourself a education and move out of mommys house


Come on you guys he just come from boat. Make nice!:jester:
Hes out from Mommy's house first time, yes.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I have some guy emailing me all of the time trying to sell me on of these units that plug into the meter can (meter pan for you guys up North) jaws, and then you plug the utility meter into it. 
That sounds like something that would work. Cut your bill in half by jumping out one side?
He wants $200 for it. Has sold 300,000 and never had anybody ask for their money back.
How could I loose?:no:


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I have some guy emailing me all of the time trying to sell me on of these units that plug into the meter can (meter pan for you guys up North) jaws, and then you plug the utility meter into it.
> That sounds like something that would work. Cut your bill in half by jumping out one side?
> He wants $200 for it. Has sold 300,000 and never had anybody ask for their money back.
> How could I loose?:no:


well then I am going to build on that saves me 100% of my electricity.:thumbsup:

~Matt


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## Bartknowsbest (Mar 10, 2009)

*They work for many people yet some guys think they dont*

Its strange, we have been selling PS1200s, PS32 and 3400's for 18 months now and have 95% happy customers, especially the commercial units. Everyone admits capacitors work, they have been used for Power Factor correction for over 50 years in industrial settings yet some guys think the earth is flat - "its a scam!".
If a customer has a variety of motor load - ie lots of pumps, compressors and motors at least one of them is cycling on and off more than not and so the in-rush current is reduced and here in CA where the top tier charge is $0.24 a KWH they pay off. They do not work for small homes with little if any motor load so we avoid selling them into those homes.
They really work for small businesses and we are happily making good bucks installing these. I am not sure about all the manufacturers but we deal with Power- Save and they are always very professional - they have to be they are publicly traded on NYSE.
So if you insist the earth is flat that is fine by me, more opportunity for the rest of us to make money.:thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

You sir are one of the following.

A. Either have not followed the post.
B. Have no clue what you are talking about 
C. Are dishonest.
D. All of the above.

I hope it is B.

So assuming you know something about this product explain how it works.

PF correction is not a one box fits all, it has to be ENGINEERED for the site based upon specific load, just dumping a "BLACK BOX" onto a site does not necessarily correct the issue with pf. In addition there is NO PENALTY FOR poor pf in the residential and light commercial market.

Oh never mind sell your snake oil and sooner or later Consumer Products will out this FARCE you install.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Its strange,


yes it is, because these things have been debunked by experts and snake oil crooks continue to peddle this crap.



> Everyone admits capacitors work,


Like DUH capacitors do work, but in the applications you sell them for they DO NOT




> they have been used for Power Factor correction for over 50 years in industrial settings yet some guys think the earth is flat - "its a scam!".


Yes it is a SCAM


----------



## Scottcam (Mar 10, 2009)

Hello everyone, first post...I tried to read the whole thread but getting past Donfta's poor grammar and attitude was just too hard.

I am an intrumentation engineer, I have a small CNC laser that is hooked up to a 3/4hp Dayton blower and a 1/8hp air brush style pump. I run my operation out of my home so it is "residential" I am wondering if something like this would actually work in my specific situation. I know they are useless for regular residential applications but I run two motors all day, and they do get turned on and off constantly. I have figured out that running my business cost me about 100 more a month due to the motors (laser does not eat much at all but it does have 8 AC bi-axial fans built into it to cool the tube)

I will not be buying one of these but I am considering building one, although I only deal with DC my brother in law is a journeyman (and should be registering here soon) So I am going to pick his brain when I build it.


So honestly, do you all think it is worth a shot? I seem to have the ideal situation going for something like this to work


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*Lets test one ???*

Well kinda noticed that each month or so someone is trying to ask what we think about these power savers? But when we tell them its not going to work they get real upset why ? OK i would like to test one send me one to play with ill test it and then post what i find ive got a 400amp service on my house and three phase. I also have one 5 hp & 7 hp 3 ph motors in my shop send it to me ill run it for few months we know it will work on a motor pf but the size of most appliances in our homes are not worth the price of the power factor correction and most already have correct caps built in today there energy effeicient today were talking pennys saved in a home .These are for a commercial area are we correct in that statment or wrong . pm me then send me one . oh and yes you can make and build your own correction caps its simple but its for just one motor by itself ,multi motors must have a auto adjust kvar cap bank like commercial services be safe


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## Scottcam (Mar 10, 2009)

nick said:


> Well kinda noticed that each month or so someone is trying to ask what we think about these power savers? But when we tell them its not going to work they get real upset why ? OK i would like to test one send me one to play with ill test it and then post what i find ive got a 400amp service on my house and three phase. I also have one 5 hp & 7 hp 3 ph motors in my shop send it to me ill run it for few months we know it will work on a motor pf but the size of most appliances in our homes are not worth the price of the power factor correction and most already have correct caps built in today there energy effeicient today were talking pennys saved in a home .These are for a commercial area are we correct in that statment or wrong . pm me then send me one . oh and yes you can make and build your own correction caps its simple but its for just one motor by itself ,multi motors must have a auto adjust kvar cap bank like commercial services be safe


was this directed at me?


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well not really unless you sell the energy power savors ? But you can make your own if you like , there is formulas and you just need a watt meter to give ya true power thats how the bigg time industrial plants do it but its only a small amount unless you have lots of motors at home to me its not worth the effort but it does work you do save pennys . Best to ya


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## Scottcam (Mar 10, 2009)

nick said:


> Well not really unless you sell the energy power savors ? But you can make your own if you like , there is formulas and you just need a watt meter to give ya true power thats how the bigg time industrial plants do it but its only a small amount unless you have lots of motors at home to me its not worth the effort but it does work you do save pennys . Best to ya



ok that's what I needed to hear, if I am running one motor for many hours a day it is still not worth it, ok cool, thanks for the info, I just wanted to be sure I was wasteing my time. My brother in law was baffeled by the claims too and he is a damn good electrician.

take it easy guys


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If you build one build several sized for each motor. But your bill will be the same.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/powerfactor.html


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Set Right Up:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have had it with the shysters. 

So I have a deal for any of the DISHONEST CROOKS taking advantage of those marks that think there are free lunches.

GIVE ME HARD PROFF BY A RECONIZED TESTING LAB OR ADMIT you are ripping off the public. Give me the proof and I will send you the cash for one and you get to keep the junk. 

None of this hear say,
None of this Well channel 7 says.
None of you lies BECAUSE YOU ARE LIARS hiding behind 1/2 truths.

If you sell this product or any of the other crap ENERGY SAVERS you are a dishonest crook.

Put the proof out or stay out of this site. (I have no power to ban you, just my wish).


----------



## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeez it doesn't work. You don't need weeks or months to test it. Run a motor load, plug in your "power saver" . Put a amp meter on it before and after and you should be using less power with the "power saver" on. Some people will believe anything, or they're out to rip people off.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> Put the proof out or stay out of this site. (I have no power to ban you, just my wish).


I've actually deleted and banned a good many of them. Not because they broke any rules necessarily, but because they piss me off.


----------



## Scottcam (Mar 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I've actually deleted and banned a good many of them. Not because they broke any rules necessarily, but because they piss me off.


I'll tell ya, the best places to get info these days hands down are Internet forums like this one, I am a member of several auto and Marine forums and you can always find the best info from guys who are not trying to sell something to you and are pros in said industry. That's why I know I will never even bother looking at a unit like this again and I plan on telling anyone who askes not to bother too. :thumbsup:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Scottcam said:


> I'll tell ya, the best places to get info these days hands down are Internet forums like this one, I am a member of several auto and Marine forums and you can always find the best info from guys who are not trying to sell something to you and are pros in said industry. That's why I know I will never even bother looking at a unit like this again and I plan on telling anyone who askes not to bother too. :thumbsup:


Power factor correction has benefit in industry, but they are engineered solutions with sometimes complex control systems. They're provided by recognizable names like Square D, GE, ABB, and so fourth.

In a house, a customer of these black boxes might well be satisfied, but that doesn't mean that they're saving any money. Satisfaction is a feeling, not a measurement.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

My son the brain (well he'd like to think so) pointed out Power-Saver does not lie they claim to save up to 25% and 0%-25% is included in up to 25%.

Also they have information about tax credits BUT I do not believe they qualify for a tax credit.

Do a YouTube search for cheesy commercials.


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well they must be tuned like a IC/RC circuit to that motor if you understand dc like you said in your post at 60 cycles your motor will be lagging current so the capacitors make current lead this improves current and voltage on load but it must not be store made for everyone one power savor for all !! It must be tuned to your motor and at the motor location not on your service panel on your home right at motor to be usefull .It actually increases the current and the voltage on motor line buy the balance of current to voltage bad power factor voltage is slighty lower to motor so it uses less power but its bad for that motor it really needs good voltage at its rating so if you improve PF you use more power in real life . there lots of different ways to look at it best to yas


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

So based on the last two supporters of Power Savers can we assume, they stop by so proud of their product giving no evidence of it's purported saving, then they are hit with some facts and they disappear with their tails between their legs to peddle their crap?


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> So based on the last two supporters of Power Savers can we assume, they stop by so proud of their product giving no evidence of it's purported saving, then they are hit with some facts and they disappear with their tails between their legs to peddle their crap?


Sure seems like it. :laughing:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Scottcam said:


> Hello everyone, first post...I tried to read the whole thread but getting past Donfta's poor grammar and attitude was just too hard.
> 
> I am an intrumentation engineer, I have a small CNC laser that is hooked up to a 3/4hp Dayton blower and a 1/8hp air brush style pump. I run my operation out of my home so it is "residential" I am wondering if something like this would actually work in my specific situation. I know they are useless for regular residential applications but I run two motors all day, and they do get turned on and off constantly. I have figured out that running my business cost me about 100 more a month due to the motors (laser does not eat much at all but it does have 8 AC bi-axial fans built into it to cool the tube)
> 
> ...


I dont think a motor load that small would benefit unless you had maybe 20 or more operating at the same time.


----------



## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you have it the other way around. Where you are claiming the earth is flat and everyone knows its round. Since you sell them, can you show any evidence that they work? 
If it actually worked I could sell a lot of them. I don't mean customer's testimonials. I mean some hard facts. Like reading a meter with and without it on, while running a motor load. Showing a electric bill doesn't work since there would be too many variables. You need to run a fixed load for a given time and compare. I don't believe you can do it. If you are a licensed contractor, you'll probably get lose your license over it, and get prosecuted for fraud. Lets see some proof.




Bartknowsbest said:


> Its strange, we have been selling PS1200s, PS32 and 3400's for 18 months now and have 95% happy customers, especially the commercial units. Everyone admits capacitors work, they have been used for Power Factor correction for over 50 years in industrial settings yet some guys think the earth is flat - "its a scam!".
> If a customer has a variety of motor load - ie lots of pumps, compressors and motors at least one of them is cycling on and off more than not and so the in-rush current is reduced and here in CA where the top tier charge is $0.24 a KWH they pay off. They do not work for small homes with little if any motor load so we avoid selling them into those homes.
> They really work for small businesses and we are happily making good bucks installing these. I am not sure about all the manufacturers but we deal with Power- Save and they are always very professional - they have to be they are publicly traded on NYSE.
> So if you insist the earth is flat that is fine by me, more opportunity for the rest of us to make money.:thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

A true test would have varying loads measuring KW, KVA, pf, voltage, amps, unit on unit off in a controlled environment, not as you notes testimonials and a residential meter. CONTROLLED test.

And as I noted earlier if these really worked jack leg snake oil salesmen would not just drop in then disappear. The manufacturer's engineer would be on this and other sites with hard proof. Nothing would sell more product than convincing this group of cynics.


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> . Nothing would sell more product than convincing this group of cynics.



Absolutely.

If something like this actually worked, I would do my best to sell it to customers.
$ saved for the customer
$ for the company
Work for me.
Win-win-win situation.

I guess I am too honest to try to sell something that doesn't work. As a matter of fact, I talked my boss out of trying to sell these.


----------



## No-Shorts-Electric (Apr 10, 2009)

*Lets test the product under loads*

*In this link they show this being tested with an amp meter but they never show KW. 
http://www.power-savetv.com/product.html
I ran the same test as in this link, but I also recorded Voltage, current, Real power, (what you are billed for) Apparent Power, (voltage times current) and cosign of the angle (power factor). 
* 
*I also tested the unit with more inductive and resistive loads and both loads showed no change in real power when the Power Saver Box was turned on. *

Here are my conclusions.
*Conclusion Claim*
*Absolutely not ----> Reduces electrical bills up to 25% per month*

*Maybe ----> Increases motor and appliance life*

*Will not Eliminate but may help ---> Eliminates power surges*

*Yes ---> Reduces 'noise' in the electrical system*


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

Ok its my turn.. I went into the supply house the other day and they had a dvd set up with some gadgets, so i am a man i had to look. They arent selling it but a salesman came in to set it up for all to see, its called a KVAR energy controller.

Its supposed to reduce electrical waste by electromagneticity and reduces the NON-productive current in the electrical system. It is supposed to increase euip. life by reducing heat around the motor and wiring caused by reactive current...blah blah blah...

here is a sight to check out 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=efG2-yk3ZK0

Or read crap here:
http://www.globalgreensavings.com/
Opinion of this crap, let me digress,

The electric meter does not register reactive current, only watts. The 
KVAR Energy Controller is a capacitor that reduces I squared R line loss. 
By improving the power factor of the electric distribution system or an 
individual motor, the KVAR unit reduces excessive reactive current that 
produces heat, heat is watts, and watts through the meter are reduced. It 
is easy to demonstrate how a capacitor can slow down the electric meter 
when it is installed on the load side of the electric company's cash 
register. 

Follow your instincts, search or try it yourself.

Here is an idea, raise your hand, close your fist, stick out you index finger and turn the switch off, save power....... tadaaaaaaaaa..


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Kvar*



TheElectricalGuru said:


> I have a question on these things possibly......We know that in a Residential environment the POCO charges by KWH and the meter does spin faster in theory the more wattage that is being used...we can all see this when you go to a meter and someone turns on the strip heat....
> 
> Now......granted I know the NEC Code but I am no Electrical Engineer so I have a question.....since consumption is consumption and V x A x PF = W......if something slowed down the meter physically, and I mean to the point you can actually SEE it slow down. Would it not actually save electricity to the consumer?
> 
> ...


I think that I know, but I said that I would be quiet.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I just saved a lot of money on my electric bill by switching to PowerSave.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Power saver*

The vacuum is immense, and I feel as if I am being sucked back in. I do not lie. I know what I know, by testing. Einstein did not achieve credibility until he died.....Okay, there was that "LIGHT BULB" thing by EDISON, as well.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

Riveter - Are you going to find every KVAR, PowerSave, etc. thread on these forums and resurrect it? :yawn:

You have not conducted controlled tests with properly calibrated equipment - therefore your data is unreliable. Seriously, let it go...:wacko:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*kvar*

Man, am I ever glad that I did not bring this subject up. It causes quite a stir.

RIVETER


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*kvar*

Man, am I ever glad that I did not bring this subject up. It causes quite a stir.

RIVETER


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Power save*



Peter D said:


> I just saved a lot of money on my electric bill by switching to PowerSave.


PeterD, have you ever tried one...for sure? Just asking.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> PeterD, have you ever tried one...for sure? Just asking.


Since when is it necessary to test one to prove it's useless?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*power save*



Peter D said:


> Since when is it necessary to test one to prove it's useless?


You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.


No, I'm not kidding. By that insane logic I would have to consume cyanide to know it's poisonous and will kill me. I think you're the one who is kidding now with all this nonsense.


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## thekoolcody (Aug 30, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.


My Instructor showed us (the Class) that it is useless...It really makes little or no diffrence at all.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

thekoolcody said:


> My Instructor showed us (the Class) that it is useless...It really makes little or no diffrence at all.


I think this is a well known fact. 

Due to popular demand we now close this regularly scheduled thread. :thumbsup:


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