# Grinding real stone



## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

If a home has real stone on the exterior, what do you guys use to smooth it out? Grinder and diamond blade? I need to make one section flat to install an exterior car charger.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't know, but post pictures of whatever you end up doing. 

I know they make PVC siding blocks, it might be easier to shape the back of that plastic block to the stone than to flatten the stone.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

NDC said:


> If a home has real stone on the exterior, what do you guys use to smooth it out? Grinder and diamond blade? I need to make one section flat to install an exterior car charger.



Adapt what you are doing not what's in place.

Shallow strut and stacked washers for spacing behind it.

Never play games trying to get a flat spot, that's a stone mason's job if you can get one that wants to even try.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Adapt what you are doing not what's in place.
> 
> Shallow strut and stacked washers for spacing behind it.
> 
> Never play games trying to get a flat spot, that's a stone mason's job if you can get one that wants to even try.


This is true.

The charger is pretty small and it only requires 2 fasteners:









So it would be rather easy to use some stacked washers to level it out. As long as the fasteners are very secure in the stone, it would be fine. Some edges would hover off the wall a bit, but due to the design of the unit it would look perfectly fine.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Depending on the situation, I would probably cut spacers from 1/2" PVC conduit and use long bolts or lag bolts into the stone with redheads or something similar like those expansion anchors for lag bolts.

Grinding the stone flat sounds like a lot of work, and dust. You could sub it out if you really want to flatten the wall.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Use a piece of Azek as a mounting block. Install 4 drop in anchors in the corners. Short scraps of threaded rod on them. Put a nut and a washer loosely on the rods 1st. Place Azek over rods through drilled holes. Spin the nuts as necessary to make the board plumb. Put washers and nuts on the front and tighten down. Cut the excess rod off. You could probably get away with two if it's a really small block.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I don't know, but post pictures of whatever you end up doing.
> 
> I know they make PVC siding blocks, it might be easier to shape the back of that plastic block to the stone than to flatten the stone.



Im thinking about using a diamond blade to make one vertical slit in the stone about 8" high and 3/4" wide. Then Ill secure spacers to mount the wall connector.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

NDC said:


> Im thinking about using a diamond blade to make one vertical slit in the stone about 8" high and 3/4" wide. Then Ill secure spacers to mount the wall connector.


What's the purpose of the slit?


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

HackWork said:


> What's the purpose of the slit?


I have no idea but I have to complicate this job to justify the high price.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

NDC said:


> I need to make one section flat to install an exterior car charger.


Something to ponder:

What happens when they decide to change the type of charge, or upgrade to a larger capacity, but smaller physical sized unit? Now you have scarred their home and probably won't get any more work from them.


I would suggest a platform either stood off the wall with all thread, or a stand alone unit with strut as mention before.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

HackWork said:


> What's the purpose of the slit?


No comment.....:vs_laugh:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

PVC is softened by THF. ( that's PVC solvent to you ) So you can take short lengths of 3/4" PVC and mangle the house end by squeezing said PVC stub to its surface in a plumb, square and level way.

Squeeze it with a wedge anchor -- 1/4" sounds like it would do -- and a fender washer -- and a 1/4" - 20 rod coupling. (You want the extra threads for this squeeze.)

Now take your torpedo level and trim the PVC to length -- leaving you with wedge anchors reaching through their centers out to the device. Because you're unlikely to drill perfectly, a little bit of tweaking will be required. Use the rod couplings to protect the threads while you bend the wedge anchor threads into perfect alignment.

Forget about ANY grinding of the existing surface.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Personally i would use spacers and colored tile silicon (it looks like sand when dry rather than cheap white silicon)

If i was to level the stone then a 4.5 inch grinder with a diamond cup would be the weapon of choice as its quick and easy to use.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Whatever you do, take pictures.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I have been told, that if you grind off the "face" of the stone, it leaves it vulnerable to water intrusion - freeze / thaw cycle. That might be man-made stone vs real stone. Similar / same reason you are not supposed to insulate a field stone basement.

Cheers
John


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I wouldn’t grind it. If it’s fake, it might be like grinding popcorn. Fasteners, spacers, done.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Sink a 4x4 in the ground just in front of the stone and mount the charger to that.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

CoolWill said:


> Sink a 4x4 in the ground just in front of the stone and mount the charger to that.


I’m liking that idea. Maybe even galvanized pipe and U-bolts?

Only one problem - frozen dirt.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

CoolWill said:


> Sink a 4x4 in the ground just in front of the stone and mount the charger to that.


Cover the 4x4 with stone and really impress the client. But use smooth stone....


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

99cents said:


> I’m liking that idea. Maybe even galvanized pipe and U-bolts?
> 
> Only one problem - frozen dirt.


Make a steel heat box like they use for thawing the ground in a grave yard.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Wirenuting said:


> Make a steel heat box like they use for thawing the ground in a grave yard.


If you're going to do that, just build a stainless steel mount that contours to the stone on the wall.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I would probably use 2 - 3/8" x 5" wedge anchors, embedded about 2 - 2 1/2" in the stone, nut and washer against the back of the unit to space and plumb it, nut and washer inside to secure it. Trim anchors as needed. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> If you're going to do that, just build a stainless steel mount that contours to the stone on the wall.
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


My idea of making a beat box is, toss an old BBQ grill top on the ground and using a propane torch. The torch is the large head type for weed burning and attaches by hose to a 30# tank. You drill a hole in the BBQ lid and stick the torch head thru.. 
Worked like a champ for me one winter to install a post. The ground thawed and dried out and a post hole digger worked like it was summer.

Edit, $20 for the cheap head.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> What's the purpose of the slit?




Really????


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Not sure why so many want to make a real project out of this.

I've been doing this stuff long enough to know that when to make a mountain out of a mole hill at some point it will come back to bite you in the ass.

If you don't like my idea I think Cool Will had a great idea as well, maybe better as it doesn't deal with the wall surface at all.

What ever you do to that stone if there is ever a problem of any kind it's all on you.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Concrete Sammys and 3/8 rod . Fender washers to shim to level and 3/8s nuts . 

That will do it trust me .


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I would use a piece of the shallow strut, I think that will make your life easier and a better install. 

The strut will let you adjust a little if your holes are slightly out of plumb, and they don't have to exactly match the spacing between the mounting holes. 

You'll want to use a piece of strut the same length as the charger. Actually, maybe you want the strut to protrude a little below the charger, to mount a pipe hanger or cable clamp or box or whatever is supplying the charger. 

Strut will also let you use an anchor and fastener bigger than you could fit in the mounting holes, which might help stiffen things up it being cantilevered. 

I'd drill the mortar joints, not the stone. The trick will be to find two spots in the mortar, one directly over the other, to anchor the strut to. 

I'd use wedge anchors. If you measure and drill to depth just so, you can probably avoid trimming the stud. With wedge anchors, you can easily stack washers for your spacer, you can take the strut off and adjust the number of washers until it's just right.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

gpop said:


> Personally i would use spacers and colored tile silicon (it looks like sand when dry rather than cheap white silicon)
> 
> If i was to level the stone then a 4.5 inch grinder with a diamond cup would be the weapon of choice as its quick and easy to use.


It’s called “sanded grout”


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

five.five-six said:


> It’s called “sanded grout”


It comes in a tube and is silicon based


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

On rock face block I use a chisel.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

gpop said:


> It comes in a tube and is silicon based


I know the stuff you're talking about. GC just used it on a job to go from tile to hardwood.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

A double Scutch hammer with a comb and flat or a Scutch chisel would do a nice job but im not sure you can buy one in the US with out special ordering. Ive spent many a unhappy hour chasing slots down brick walls to embed romex.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

gpop said:


> It comes in a tube and is silicon based


That’s the stuff.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

So for this job I ended up going a different route and installing the ev charger indoors but now I have another inquiry to mount one to stone. I really don't want to grind down the stone surface. I'm thinking of coming off of the corner with strut so the mounting plate is suspended passed the cover in front of the downspout.
Any thoughts?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I would keep it simple and mount to the stone as Splatz described. Using some wedge anchors to space a piece of strut off the wall has worked really well for me in the past. I too also try and put the anchors in the grout lines. This way if it has to be changed or removed you only have holes in the grout and not the stone. The added benefit is that any water running down the side of the house goes behind the charger and not over it. At least in the NEC we have a rule to keep boxes in wet locations spaced off of flat walls for this purpose.



splatz said:


> I would use a piece of the shallow strut, I think that will make your life easier and a better install.
> 
> The strut will let you adjust a little if your holes are slightly out of plumb, and they don't have to exactly match the spacing between the mounting holes.
> 
> ...


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The strut idea I posted before. So easy.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I would keep it simple and mount to the stone as Splatz described. Using some wedge anchors to space a piece of strut off the wall has worked really well for me in the past. I too also try and put the anchors in the grout lines. This way if it has to be changed or removed you only have holes in the grout and not the stone. The added benefit is that any water running down the side of the house goes behind the charger and not over it. At least in the NEC we have a rule to keep boxes in wet locations spaced off of flat walls for this purpose.





splatz said:


> The strut idea I posted before. So easy.



I like the idea of wedge anchors. I think I can use 3/8" wedge anchors for this grout thickness but how deep into the grout should I drill? I think 3 anchors should do the trick and hold really well but do you think I should add anchoring adhesive too? I also don't want the anchors to rust so sleeving them with 1/2" pvc may do the trick.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

NDC said:


> I like the idea of wedge anchors. I think I can use 3/8" wedge anchors for this grout thickness but how deep into the grout should I drill? I think 3 anchors should do the trick and hold really well but do you think I should add anchoring adhesive too? I also don't want the anchors to rust so sleeving them with 1/2" pvc may do the trick.


I would go in 2" to 3". Also If you are worried about rust you can use stainless steel wedge anchors. They are expensive but at places like McMaster(or other hardware stores) you can buy them individually.

3/8" x 5" stainless steel wedge anchor $3.87 ea








McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

NDC said:


> I like the idea of wedge anchors. I think I can use 3/8" wedge anchors for this grout thickness but how deep into the grout should I drill? I think 3 anchors should do the trick and hold really well but do you think I should add anchoring adhesive too? I also don't want the anchors to rust so sleeving them with 1/2" pvc may do the trick.


A small PVC sleeve over the stud would be a good spacer if you didn't want to stack washers, easy to cut to length, but I am not sure it would really keep moisture off the stud, it will run down the wall and get in there. I have had pretty good luck with galvanized anchors not rusting. Of course you can't go wrong with stainless. 

I don't know how big the enclosure you're hanging is, but wedge anchors have pretty good pullout strength. Take a look at this spec, even a single 1/4" anchor with 1-1/8" embedment has 877 pounds of pullout strength in 2000 PSI concrete 

Technical Specifications for Wedge Anchors 

I am not sure the PSI of the mortar but it should be very strong. You could probably get by with two per strut unless this is a BIG charger. Of course if you use three, nobody will ever know if one of them doesn't hold.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

splatz said:


> A small PVC sleeve over the stud would be a good spacer if you didn't want to stack washers, easy to cut to length, but I am not sure it would really keep moisture off the stud, it will run down the wall and get in there. I have had pretty good luck with galvanized anchors not rusting. Of course you can't go wrong with stainless.
> 
> I don't know how big the enclosure you're hanging is, but wedge anchors have pretty good pullout strength. Take a look at this spec, even a single 1/4" anchor with 1-1/8" embedment has 877 pounds of pullout strength in 2000 PSI concrete
> 
> ...


I was thinking to mount one vertical piece of strut and anchoring at the ends and one anchor in the middle. Then mounting the charger to it using spring nuts. The charging unit is pretty heavy and tall for a level 2 charger. I believe its 17" tall, its a Flo G5 unit all cast aluminum.
Are you suggesting that I use 2 pieces of strut mounted horizontally? This actually makes more sense and I think it will make for a more secure installation.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

I like the idea of going underground if possible and coming up into a post. I have done posts in concrete, but you could easily use 6x6 or 4x4 and veneer with stone. I have also used steel pipe for posts and used 5/4 x 6 deck wood, mitered corners and assembled into what looks like a 6x6 post. We do this on docks in FL. Leaves a lot of space to pull wire in conduit or use direct burial.


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