# Spray foam insulation...hi hats



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

It is IC. But you could tell him that spray foam is kinda flammable. It's always best, if he wants to do that, plywood a box around it and sprayfoam the plywood box.

But it is IC!


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## WIElectric (Feb 21, 2012)

http://www.recessedlightcover.com/


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

If it is foamed you could no longer access the J-box.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

WIElectric said:


> http://www.recessedlightcover.com/


 
Last time I bought those, they were about 200 a piece. They're normally used to acheive a fire rating between two floors with recessed in between. One thing I don't like about their site is the scare tactics. I bet they don't have any info to actually back this up.:



Recessed downlights are used in many American homes and businesses. Despite their growing popularity, they represent a potential fire hazard, especially when buried with insulation. Numerous house fires have been caused by hot recessed lights mistakenly covered with foam, cellulose and other blown-in or lay-in insulation materials.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Last time I bought those, they were about 200 a piece. They're normally used to acheive a fire rating between two floors with recessed in between. One thing I don't like about their site is the scare tactics. I bet they don't have any info to actually back this up.:
> 
> 
> 
> Recessed downlights are used in many American homes and businesses. Despite their growing popularity, they represent a potential fire hazard, especially when buried with insulation. Numerous house fires have been caused by hot recessed lights mistakenly covered with foam, cellulose and other blown-in or lay-in insulation materials.


It's going LED , heat is not as much as my concern as making the j box unservicable. But who's to say standard bulbs can't get used latter on in life, who's liability would that fall on?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> It's going LED , heat is not as much as my concern as making the j box unservicable. But who's to say standard bulbs can't get used latter on in life, who's liability would that fall on?


You have to use the max wattage for calculations. I think someone posted something from Halo that said even ic rated cans are not, meant for spray foam.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Is the job under permit? Maybe a quick word with the inspector will get the desired results. The requirement for accessible boxes isn't negotiable, even if the rest of the can is permitted to be buried.


You could possibly increase your work/profit a bit by waiting to have this conversation after he foams everything in, and is then forced to dig out and ruin the cans (and the sheetrock).......:devil:


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Last time I bought those, they were about 200 a piece. They're normally used to acheive a fire rating between two floors with recessed in between. One thing I don't like about their site is the scare tactics. I bet they don't have any info to actually back this up.:
> 
> 
> 
> Recessed downlights are used in many American homes and businesses. Despite their growing popularity, they represent a potential fire hazard, especially when buried with insulation. Numerous house fires have been caused by hot recessed lights mistakenly covered with foam, cellulose and other blown-in or lay-in insulation materials.


 
I think that I have seen a similar product that is primarliy about energy eff., not fire rating. They were more like $17, still not cheap, but not a bad pulg and play solution. Can't remember who made them though.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

They make a cover that can be placed around the can to protect it.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I think you're crazy if you let him foam it. You're asking for problems down the road even if you go with LED lighting. LED's like it as cool as possible and they will give off some heat. The heat sinks on the LED units need somewhere to go with the heat.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I recommended stuffing fiberglass insulation around the housing and foaming up to it.


 
I have zero experience with your situation.

But, thats what I would do.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I would say that would void the warranty on the cans and possibly the led... Other than that tell him, "knock your self out buddy" and get it in writting.. LED crap isnt cheap..


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I would say that would void the warrenty on the cans and possibly the led... Other than that tell him, "knock your self out buddy" and get it in writting.. LED crap isnt cheap..


 
ANd there's still some heat there. Probably close to an incandescent.


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

I had this situation a number of years ago and the homeowner took my suggestion and made boxes out of scrap plywood. With the new LED retrofits available I am glad he did it so that the can can be as cool as possible if they get retrofit down the road.


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## J. Temple (Dec 30, 2011)

I've seen a lot of our new house get the spray foam insulation and the insulation contractor always puts fiberglas insulation around our can fixtures. If not spay foam insulation traps all the heat of the lamp and the thermal switch (built into the fixture) cut the power to the lamp, till it cools down.


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

WIElectric said:


> http://www.recessedlightcover.com/


I just installed 22 of the 2HR rated ones. From what I was told, they were $60 our cost.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Not too long ago we had an electrician here complain about the foam insulation setting off the IC over wattage protection way before what the can was rated for. The cover over the recessed can that Dennis showed is probably your best solution. Cover your ass.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Here's the million dollar question. If they used the IC "box" type cans, would this thread be a moot subject?


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## Mrmanly (May 23, 2010)

"Is the job under permit?"

Why wouldnt it be?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Here's the million dollar question. If they used the IC "box" type cans, would this thread be a moot subject?


IMO, that would be fine as you have access to the JB. The only problem without an enclosure is the jb access. They usually don't encase the entire fixture just a few inches.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Here's the million dollar question. If they used the IC "box" type cans, would this thread be a moot subject?


 
Those box type cans still have the junction box seperate. Some of them have a sliding door that raises up to access the junction box.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> They make a cover that can be placed around the can to protect it.


Dennis, do you have a link to this product?


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

backstay said:


> Dennis, do you have a link to this product?


looks like a small garbage can to me :laughing:


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Mrmanly said:


> "Is the job under permit?"
> 
> Why wouldnt it be?


 
The question was mostly rhetorical, but why would you assume every job has a permit? Especially when the OP starts off stating that he's working with a hack contractor, it's far from a foregone conclusion.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

backstay said:


> Dennis, do you have a link to this product?


$7.50 for one and cheaper as the quantities go down.

*Here is one link.*


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> $7.50 for one and cheaper as the quantities go down.
> 
> *Here is one link.*


Dennis, the $7.50 is for shipping, the covers list at $19.95 each. Still not bad compared to the others that have been mentioned.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> Here's the million dollar question. If they used the IC "box" type cans, would this thread be a moot subject?


 
They say IC, so spray the hell out of them.(assuming somewhere it says spray foam isnt allowed.)

Although I wouldnt want mine done that way.


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

Aren't most IC pots serviceable from the inside? Yes it is a pain in the ass but it is still considered serviceable. Also what about when you install IC pots between floors/in shallow attics with no access? You are covering up the "JB" in this instance so the only way to get to it would be to cut out the drywall and insulation. Yet this method is still legal.

I don't find any code violations about it....stupid yes and a pain in the ass for servicing but not against code.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

CanadianSparky said:


> Aren't most IC pots serviceable from the inside? Yes it is a pain in the ass but it is still considered serviceable. Also what about when you install IC pots between floors/in shallow attics with no access? You are covering up the "JB" in this instance so the only way to get to it would be to cut out the drywall and insulation. Yet this method is still legal.
> 
> I don't find any code violations about it....stupid yes and a pain in the ass for servicing but not against code.


If you spray foam the fixture to the ceiling how are you planning on pulling down the can to get to the jb?


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

crazyboy said:


> If you spray foam the fixture to the ceiling how are you planning on pulling down the can to get to the jb?


Well that all depends on the kind you are using. Im talking about the box style ones.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

CanadianSparky said:


> Well that all depends on the kind you are using. Im talking about the box style ones.


Ah ha, I misunderstood.


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

crazyboy said:


> Ah ha, I misunderstood.


I actually think I have misunderstood the whole thread lol......I thought we were talking about box style IC but I don't think we are


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## Landmark (Mar 7, 2010)

I would like to see the foam sprayed up on the bottom of the roof sheeting and no isulation on top of the ceiling drywall. That would make it easy to work in the attic.


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