# Commercial Electric for Business



## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

If the property sits next to existing 3-phase power lines, it will be easy to get 3-phase power. If there is no 3-phase power next to the property, the power company will likely make you pay to extend the lines (very expensive) or expect you to guarantee a certain amount (a lot) of usage per month.

If you see a property you like and are unsure if there is 3-phase power there, call the construction division of the power company and ask them. They will be able to tell you quickly. They have detailed maps.

If you need power at higher voltages, call the power company and ask your questions. They will have better answers.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Make a short list of properties that fit your other needs, and see if any have the 3 phase power you're looking for.
Otherwise find an industrial electrician and pay him to draw you a map.
I doubt a power company is going to provide a citizen with maps of their infrastructure.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would call the power company and explain what you are doing. They can pretty much get 3 phase anywhere but it is better to check.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Brutaby said:


> I need some direction for what to look for if I want to purchase a property where I will place a business that will require 3-phase electric. The property will be in a rural location in Texas and will consume quite a bit of electric for manufacturing. I want the ability to expand my electric capacity at a later date.
> 
> For getting 3-phase on the property, should I be looking for a location that is close to a substation or high voltage lines?
> How do I know prior to purchase what the more economical locations as far as installation and commercial rates are?
> Any advice or references will be appreciated.


The devil is in the details. You need to know what "quite a bit of electricity" is because everything is relative. To me, a 6000 amp 120/208 service is quite a bit of electricity, but you may be talking about an aluminum smelting plant. It may turn out what you think is "quite a bit" is actually a typical cookie cutter industrial service and any utility could provide it anywhere along it's 3 phase territory.

Check out the infrastructure in proximity to the area you're considering as pretty much every rural area in North America is overhead wires on poles, so all you need to do is look for the telltale sign of 3-phase conductors at the top of the pole. and not the single one phase conductor at the top.

3-phases are typically this:








The barely visible wire at the top is where they run the ground in lightning country, and is usually under the 3 phases otherwise. But in RURAL-rural territory - this 3-phase scheme is not as available. All over rural NY and Ct and Pa you'll typically see but one phase. 

If there's one thick or thin cable at the top of poels held off the pole by insulators - that's when you know you're in the sticks and there's no 3-phase available.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

High voltage lines in the area won't tell you if three phase power is available.
The lines could be just passing through the area and not feed anything in that area.
Substation would be more of an indication but still won't tell you what's available as a customer.
Often in rural areas you may run across only two hot wires on a pole and be given a three phase open delta.
There are several power companies in Texas.
You need to get in contact with the utility companies such as Centerpoint Power (Houston area) or Texas-New Mexico Power (most of the rest of the State).
What part of Texas are you considering?
I live here in Texas and might be able to help.


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## Brutaby (Jul 29, 2021)

wiz1997 said:


> High voltage lines in the area won't tell you if three phase power is available.
> The lines could be just passing through the area and not feed anything in that area.
> Substation would be more of an indication but still won't tell you what's available as a customer.
> Often in rural areas you may run across only two hot wires on a pole and be given a three phase open delta.
> ...


I can't really give a precise location at this point because I'm trying to understand what to look for in a property prior to purchasing the property. If you look at Voss, TX and take a 50 mile radius, somewhere in there. Large area.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Brutaby said:


> I can't really give a precise location at this point because I'm trying to understand what to look for in a property prior to purchasing the property. If you look at Voss, TX and take a 50 mile radius, somewhere in there. Large area.


Again call the power company and see if there is any area where 3 phase is an issue. Unless it is a residential area it shouldn't be an issue


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Brutaby said:


> I can't really give a precise location at this point because I'm trying to understand what to look for in a property prior to purchasing the property. If you look at Voss, TX and take a 50 mile radius, somewhere in there. Large area.





Brutaby said:


> I need some direction for what to look for if I want to purchase a property where I will place a business that will require 3-phase electric. The property will be in a rural location in Texas and will consume quite a bit of electric for manufacturing. I want the ability to expand my electric capacity at a later date.
> 
> For getting 3-phase on the property, should I be looking for a location that is close to a substation or high voltage lines?
> How do I know prior to purchase what the more economical locations as far as installation and commercial rates are?
> Any advice or references will be appreciated.


Manufacturing what, and, a specific plan for the ability to immediately expand and grow? Rural location, and 3-phase is a requirement? And, what could possibly require such an odd ask other than a legal grow op or a bitcoin mining operation? Because rural sounds like you're looking for cheap land in the middle of nowhere populated where 3-phase is unlikely to be readily available for direct connection to any commercial or industrial customer and, substations are few and far between where population and customers are extremely scarce. 

Honestly, you're being too cryptic to help.


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## DragnUp (Jun 18, 2021)

i contacted a power company in rural texas, wanting to know if i could get 3phase 480 at a location where i already had an active meter. 

they told me "The meter you have there now is only set for 120/240. To get the 3-phase 480 for your 75hp motor would require approximately 4500’ of 3-phase to be extended to this facility. A estimated cost would be in the range of $ 50’000.00 +/-"

about 480 single-phase, "The meter at this location will not provide 480 volts. It will take a completely different set up. If you drop to a 40 hp motor at this location then we can provide 480 single- phase power, but not at this meter. It will require a new set up around this facility."

so i said, " I have poles, panels and wiring available for 480 single-phase in our yard. What would the approximate cost be for that upgrade (from single-phase 120/240) at that location?"

so new pole, feeders and panel, new transformer for old 120/240 stuff at that location, and a one-to-three-phase converter for the motor.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Some good comments posted. 
I would caution you about stopping at 480v 3 phase. Today that might seem like a lot.
I worked for a place where we rebuilt motors and the owner wanted to test the motors under load before returning them to the customers. We had a 3000 amp 480v service and needed at least 1000 amps at 4160v. The nonsense started with the owner and cave man electric (POCO)
Medium voltage at any cost was not available. 
We ended up with a transformer, a VFD and having to over ride the ground ground fault sensor on a SPB breaker. Company was to cheap to have the over current protector changed which would have solved the problem for motor testing. So we back fed a transformer get 5 kv and used a Motortronics MV VFD to get the motors started. Slowly people got tired of standing behind the SES and pushing a button when they wanted to start a motor. The button opened the protective relay settings so there were NONE. The noises from the transformer and the SES were scary to me during startup. Considering they both should be relatively silent under operation. The owner and I had words over the issue, they threatened to fire me. I said go ahead. Make my day. The economy turned and I got laid off as well as everyone else over the age of 45.
If you doing manufacturing a 15kv service will allow you to shoot for the stars.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I get the impression the OP hasn't narrowed it down to specific properties and is just scouting. You may not be at that point yet but long before you make an offer on property you'll need an engineer. An engineer can help determine what size service you're going to need based on current and projected needs. If they're local or have existing clients in the area, they'll have some idea what is available where, what the utility company's obligated to provide, and what it's going to cost to bring what you need. There will be considerable investment but with manufacturing choosing the right property can be the difference between success and failure.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

A good commercial/industrial real estate agent may have a list that they could provide.
The other thing the OP might want to consider is a rail head and semi loading dock. 
I used to do work for a business that unloaded 30-40 rail cars a month for there ceiling tile business. 
You need to import product and ship finished goods.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

A good experienced electrician should be able to sit down with the customer and get a good feel for the needs now and in the future. From there the POCO needs to be brought in to the loop to see what is available for power. Around here the cost to extend 3 phase is about 75000$ per mile. There are to many unanswered questions here to make any kind of swag estimates. We work out here all of the time without engineers. It is just part of the job.


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