# Getting information on IEC/Metric motors



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

There have been occasions in the past where I thought I was dealing with an IEC or old DIN standard motor, and come to find out it was custom from beginning to end- to no standard. It helps to have a decent motor shop to just drop it in their lap with the instruction, "find me something that will work in place of this". They might have questions a bit later about how much extra room you have to spare in certain dimensions, but they seldom have let me down. It may involve an adapter flange, but after that first purchase, you can use a "normal" motor forever.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Fortunately today IEC motors are widely available. OEM motors, IEC or NEMA are completely different. OEM motors are built to spec for a customer. 

In the case of OEM as Marc mentions is to see if you can find a stock product to replace the OEM product with. It can be done and its not very hard. But its not a sure thing every time. OEM are notorious for shaft modifications and other physical attributes that can sink a cross over attempt.

Like he said, a good motor shop will cross it to stock if at all possible. If not they can at least get you a price on a new OEM product or repair the one you want to replace.



OP. First thing to do with an IEC motor is to take a look at the nameplate. Check the frame and voltage as that will help you to determine if its stock or an OEM motor.


Does it have a D flange or a C flange? You can measure these frame dimensions and see if a stock motor will fit. Flanges in most cases must be ordered separately and installed by you or the motor shop. Good shops keep a good supply of both NEMA and IEC flanges on hand for the frames they stock.
Use extreme caution with the C dimension. This is the overall length of the motor. EPACT forced manufacturers to find ways to lower energy consumption and larger cooling fans were used in many instances. So always check that length. I have ordered motors before and not took that very important measurement serious enough. I learned real quick when customers told me the new motor would not fit into the space. Everything else was fine. Just the length.

Then cross reference it with a IEC manufacturer catalog.


Try these guys. I reped them for years and they are very good at what they do. 

http://www.lafertna.com/


Weg, Baldor and most large motor manufacturers are now building IEC motors. Once again be very careful. Sometimes these are not true metric frames and will not work in every application.
Check both of these above and key in on "metric" or "IEC" once in the stock catalog.
Also frame sizes are available in Ugly's and pocket handbooks.
Or just use Google.
You will need a set of calipers and a tape measure or other measuring tool. But calipers are a must.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

IEC - https://www.baldor.com/~/media/files/brands/baldor-reliance/resources and support/backcover.ashx

NEMA - https://www.baldor.com/Shared/pdf/nema_chart_04.pdf


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

I've actually ran into a couple custom OEM motors as of late as well out at this winery. All on Italian equipment. The latest was on a small crusher that had the control box integrated into the motor.

Of course, with this machine, it isn't going to be all that difficult to swap out for a NEMA motor. I've found the nameplates to be quite different, and not standardized. I should also mention that this is mostly bought-used older equipment. The first machine was a 3000RPM pump/filter machine and it was going to be quite the feat of mechanical engineering to get a different motor on there.

We don't have a local motor shop around here. There isn't much industrial/controls type stuff here either, so doing any kind of controls or commercial/industrial type work can be a pain sometimes.

Thanks for the charts. I'll print them out and keep them on my truck. Now I need just to find something that explains the nameplates on nema motors a bit better, and that goes into the motor windings for each type of motor, (similar to how the ugly's book has schematics of NEMA motor windings). Three phase ones are easy, as I have them memorized, but not for single phase.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

sparkiez said:


> I've actually ran into a couple custom OEM motors as of late as well out at this winery. All on Italian equipment. The latest was on a small crusher that had the control box integrated into the motor.
> 
> Of course, with this machine, it isn't going to be all that difficult to swap out for a NEMA motor. I've found the nameplates to be quite different, and not standardized. I should also mention that this is mostly bought-used older equipment. The first machine was a 3000RPM pump/filter machine and it was going to be quite the feat of mechanical engineering to get a different motor on there.
> 
> ...


You need to get your hands on an "Electrical Engineering Pocket Handbook" that's printed by EASA (Electrical Apparatus Service Assoc.) for their member service shops, who often give them away as promotional items. People sell them on eBay too, just keep in mind most of them got those for free and tend to over value them as resale items.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

All ways pays to read and label 

we had a eurosew that was 830v high, 480 low

called them up to make sure this was correctly labeled. It got there interest as there are only 2 of them in America and some how we had managed to get the spare they were meant to be keeping in stock.


----------



## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Fortunately today IEC motors are widely available. OEM motors, IEC or NEMA are completely different. OEM motors are built to spec for a customer.
> 
> In the case of OEM as Marc mentions is to see if you can find a stock product to replace the OEM product with. It can be done and its not very hard. But its not a sure thing every time. OEM are notorious for shaft modifications and other physical attributes that can sink a cross over attempt.
> 
> ...


I have had nothing but problems with replacement Lafert motors. They have an extremely high inrush current about twice what other motors of the same HP would have. Bearing drag was excessive. Was not impressed with the multi position aluminum feet. Fixed position peckerhead. I told my motor shop to NEVER send me a Lafert motor again.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

JRaef said:


> You need to get your hands on an "Electrical Engineering Pocket Handbook" that's printed by EASA (Electrical Apparatus Service Assoc.) for their member service shops, who often give them away as promotional items. People sell them on eBay too, just keep in mind most of them got those for free and tend to over value them as resale items.


Found this here for a few bucks:
https://www.sabinadrives.com/Electrical-Engineering-Pocket-Handbook-p/mcw073.htm

Also, when I typed out "NEMA" motors, I actually meant IEC motors. I'm used to dealing with NEMA motors, just not IEC. Also, those SEW motors can be a TOTAL PITA when you run across them. Sometimes it takes months to get one.

There is also a PDF version here (if this is the complete one):
http://www.goevans.com/filesSite/EHB_pgs0803.pdf


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JRaef said:


> You need to get your hands on an "Electrical Engineering Pocket Handbook" that's printed by EASA (Electrical Apparatus Service Assoc.) for their member service shops, who often give them away as promotional items. People sell them on eBay too, just keep in mind most of them got those for free and tend to over value them as resale items.





sparkiez said:


> Found this here for a few bucks:
> https://www.sabinadrives.com/Electrical-Engineering-Pocket-Handbook-p/mcw073.htm
> 
> Also, when I typed out "NEMA" motors, I actually meant IEC motors. I'm used to dealing with NEMA motors, just not IEC. Also, those SEW motors can be a TOTAL PITA when you run across them. Sometimes it takes months to get one.
> ...





I have the pdf version of the electrical handbook by EASA.


The (goevans.com) pdf only has the NEMA dimensions but the actual pocket handbook does have the IEC dimensions.. I just checked.


My shop was a master distributor for SEW Eurodrive.
The manufacturing facility was less than 3 miles from our shop.
Unless the motor or gearmotor is an OEM product, replacement SEW Eurodrive motors and gear motors are easily replaced.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

varmit said:


> I have had nothing but problems with replacement Lafert motors. They have an extremely high inrush current about twice what other motors of the same HP would have. Bearing drag was excessive. Was not impressed with the multi position aluminum feet. Fixed position peckerhead. I told my motor shop to NEVER send me a Lafert motor again.



What brand of IEC motors did you find more reliable?
When I was working out of the shop I sold tons of Lafert. Rarely did we have any warranty issues that come to mind.
However, there was a problem with overheating that I remember and it took quite a while for them to figure out what was wrong. I do not remember exactly what happened and I'm certain they still sell these motors.
What we liked is they were a metric outfit doing there best to serve US customers and distributors.



Weg along with a few others carry a line of true metric motors.
Which line did you find to be better than Lafert?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

sparkiez said:


> Also, those SEW motors can be a TOTAL PITA when you run across them. Sometimes it takes months to get one.


What?? What kind of wacky motors do you use? I've used them off and on my whole career, and we use a heck of a lot of SEW at my present job, and the lead time, at most, is a two-three days. Most can be same day or next day. Most of the time, however, it's just a stator replacement and not a whole motor anyhow because they're part of a Eurodrive gearbox and you dump the oil if you just snatch the whole motor off. (which are also stock at the distributor).


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

The ones we had were resolver motors on a freezer system like this:






And to make matters even worse, we were changing them in a -25F environment.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> What?? What kind of wacky motors do you use? I've used them off and on my whole career, and we use a heck of a lot of SEW at my present job, and the lead time, at most, is a two-three days. Most can be same day or next day. Most of the time, however, it's just a stator replacement and not a whole motor anyhow because they're part of a Eurodrive gearbox and you dump the oil if you just snatch the whole motor off. (which are also stock at the distributor).



We did several stator swaps for SEW Eurodrive a week. They felt better letting us do it, than to let their guys do it.
It is a production facility though.




sparkiez said:


> The ones we had were resolver motors on a freezer system like this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj64LdSshsM&t=9s
> 
> And to make matters even worse, we were changing them in a -25F environment.



Did you ever talk to the manufacturer or distributor and tell them the conditions these motor were exposed to?
I don't know of any stock motors I would put in that freezer without approval from the manufacture.
I would imagine the bearing grease at minimum was a solid mass in the cold. Could be why your starting current was so high?

I would be using motors approved for those conditions.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Did you ever talk to the manufacturer or distributor and tell them the conditions these motor were exposed to?
> I don't know of any stock motors I would put in that freezer without approval from the manufacture.
> I would imagine the bearing grease at minimum was a solid mass in the cold. Could be why your starting current was so high?
> 
> I would be using motors approved for those conditions.


We use heating blocks that screw in the lifting eye hole. Designed for motors, and self-regulated. Keeps the motor within designed temperature tolerances. There's at least a couple motors that have some heating element in the windings and they're tailed out in the peckerhead.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> We use heating blocks that screw in the lifting eye hole. Designed for motors, and self-regulated. Keeps the motor within designed temperature tolerances. There's at least a couple motors that have some heating element in the windings and they're tailed out in the peckerhead.


Motors dont seem to care when they are running. Its when they cool down that the problems begin so we use the heaters built in to the winding that come on as soon as the motor shuts down.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> We use heating blocks that screw in the lifting eye hole. Designed for motors, and self-regulated. Keeps the motor within designed temperature tolerances. There's at least a couple motors that have some heating element in the windings and they're tailed out in the peckerhead.





gpop said:


> Motors dont seem to care when they are running. Its when they cool down that the problems begin so we use the heaters built in to the winding that come on as soon as the motor shuts down.



When I think of winding heaters, I think of moisture control. Condensation.

I never thought they got hot enough to keep the motor warm? We used them a lot in outdoor applications. In the heat of summer and the cold of winter.
Yes, Marc we installed the heating pads to the windings and brought the leads out of the connection box. 

But good point. I wonder if the OP is using something like this? 25 below zero seems harsh for a standard motor. 24-7-365 too.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> I never thought they got hot enough to keep the motor warm?


I wouldn't say warm, but I'll offer "not cold". :biggrin: If I can stand going in the blast freezer for 15 seconds tonight, I'll get an IR gun measurement of a motor that's off and see what it's case temp is. Places like that suck. Seconds after you step inside you can feel your nose hairs freezing to the inside of your nose. I don't know how the Alaskans suffer it.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> I wouldn't say warm, but I'll offer "not cold". :biggrin: If I can stand going in the blast freezer for 15 seconds tonight, I'll get an IR gun measurement of a motor that's off and see what it's case temp is. Places like that suck. Seconds after you step inside you can feel your nose hairs freezing to the inside of your nose. I don't know how the Alaskans suffer it.


Your a brave man going above and beyond for science.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

gpop said:


> Your a brave man going above and beyond for science.


-15 F ambient. Wind speed was approximately gail force. It sucked. 
idle motor case +18 to +26 F.
Running motor cases were +40 to +55F

Grease was either polyrex or FG2, neither of which suit these low temps.


----------

