# The Beginning of the End (Smurf Tube)



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

MattHelm said:


> It finally happened. I looked at job, looked at all the obstructions, thought about the bends I would need to make, and thought "screw it".
> 
> I picked up roll of smurf and a handful of fittings. Did the job a couple of days later.
> 
> ...


what is the problem


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## LanceBass (Mar 22, 2013)

What's wrong with smurf tube? Are you saying the only thing that should be used is conduit because it lasts longer and smurf is just cheap plastic?


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## MattHelm (Nov 12, 2011)

I have no problems with smurf in concrete, but I have always felt it was a bit hackish otherwise. I like a neat, orderly pipe job and get satisfaction from it.

I did glue the snap on fittings just because. :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

If this was some sort of a storefront, don't give it a second thought. They change owners and names in 3 years average and it will all get cut out and replaced anyway....


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## LanceBass (Mar 22, 2013)

What if you were running smurf through commercial drywall framing - isn't that the only way you could do it?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Ive yet to use smurf pipe in any setting other than a kitchen island or a future conduit in a resi setting. I would love to find more practical uses for it! Its extremely cost effective and fast to run. Just haven't had the opportunity to use it all that much.

Any situation where it can be used, and you chose to, is a smart cost effective move IMO.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Since the smurf tube is coiled, is it hard to push the wires through?
Do you push the wires in a particular direction like we do with FMC?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Since the smurf tube is coiled, is it hard to push the wires through?
> Do you push the wires in a particular direction like we do with FMC?


I always put a pull string in with a fiberglass snake,then you can tie on your wires a pull them in anytime you need to.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Since the smurf tube is coiled, is it hard to push the wires through?
> Do you push the wires in a particular direction like we do with FMC?


Same hassle either direction. I pull in the wires at rough in so I can shake my fishtape thru while the walls are open.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

LanceBass said:


> What if you were running smurf through commercial drywall framing - isn't that the only way you could do it?


Hmm , Commercial drywall framing ? You mean metal studs , lol ? Yeah , car flex ( smurftube ) , mc cable , flexible metal conduit , EMT are just a handful of ways to wire a stud wall . Yes , EMT ! Hospital job specs usually make it real clear what they don't want , and anything but cable usually fits the bill . Anywhere I've ever used car flex has been concealed never to be seen again , but that's not to say I wouldn't use it exposed . If its legal and is properly supported , who cares ? People usually only care about the finished product unless you're wiring a log cabin .


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## MattHelm (Nov 12, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> Since the smurf tube is coiled, is it hard to push the wires through?
> Do you push the wires in a particular direction like we do with FMC?



It wasn't bad, some tape was need on the end of the wires to keep the ends from catching on the ridges.

It isn't actually coiled. Annular would be a better description. So, the direction doesn't matter so much.

The only really hiccup was that I left all but two of the threaded male adapters behind and I don't normally carry 1/2" PVC fittings on the truck.

I had a handful of the snap-in male adapters and used them, but one of the knockouts (in a pressure switch) had such close tolerances that it was a real booger getting it in.


ETA: I have a vac with me but I didn't need to pull a string or use my fish tape. Three 10ga pushed really nice.


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## RandyM (Apr 5, 2012)

Smurf has to be covered by 15 minute fire rated covering. Was that pressure switch in the wall? If that smurf is exposed the inspector should not pass it.


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## MattHelm (Nov 12, 2011)

RandyM said:


> Smurf has to be covered by 15 minute fire rated covering.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that only applies to third floor and up. It does have to be protected from damage (which it is).


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## MattHelm (Nov 12, 2011)

I was close. An excerpt from 363.10 (emphasis mine):



> The use of ENT and fittings *shall be permitted* in the following:
> (1) *In any building not exceeding three floors above grade as follows:
> a. For exposed work, where not prohibited by 362.12 *
> b. Concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings
> ...


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

LanceBass said:


> What if you were running smurf through commercial drywall framing -* isn't that the only way you could do it?*




emt, mc, fmc, rgc........


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Matt, I think that is one of the downfalls of lurking on here to much. It is easy to forget about workmanship and just worry about the bottom line. We have a lot of great electricians on here, but we also have a bunch of hacks.
Sometimes when your on here for a while it is really easy to listen to the hacks and take the easy way out. This is fine for some but the real electricians that have any pride at all will stick to their guns. 
When all is said and done the good ones will still be around. The hacks will be working for someone else.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Smurf is pretty much standard here in poured in place parking structures. Other than that, I don't see it very often. 
Banks, stores, strip malls, TI,etc have gone mc90.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I've been using it for interior pvc runs now for over a year, tomorrow I have a 200 amp sub feed, a 100 amp sub feed and 60 amp sub feed all going in via smurftube and conductors, and yes, noodles and grounds are deraterd to the ultra minimum prescribed by code.


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## green light (Oct 12, 2011)

drumnut08 said:


> car flex ( smurftube ) .


Carflex and smurf tube are two different products where I come from...


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

green light said:


> Carflex and smurf tube are two different products where I come from...


Correct you are , I meant ENT .


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Matt, I think that is one of the downfalls of lurking on here to much. It is easy to forget about workmanship and just worry about the bottom line. We have a lot of great electricians on here, but we also have a bunch of hacks.
> Sometimes when your on here for a while it is really easy to listen to the hacks and take the easy way out. This is fine for some but the real electricians that have any pride at all will stick to their guns.
> When all is said and done the good ones will still be around. The hacks will be working for someone else.


i understand this sentiment. seems there are two basic schools of thought around here 1) its compliant and cheap who cares. And 2) its electrical work no one cares what it looks like. my employers and i get satisfaction out of a well constructed installation that couldn't couldn't be done by and swinging d*ck walking out of home depot. our contracts usually dictate exceptional work and i'm happy to give it. BUT if i have to sling smurf through bar joists to pay the bills and support the family then i'll follow suit. thankfully this doesn't look to be happening any time soon


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

How terrible, using a compliant and safe wiring method. 

Clearly the planet will be sucked into a black hole in 3,2,1... :no:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Jlarson said:


> How terrible, using a compliant and safe wiring method.
> 
> Clearly the planet will be sucked into a black hole in 3,2,1... :no:


i didn't mean it was terrible. i got nothing against people who choose that route. i know what i prefer but im still young and not jaded with the whole thing yet. ill learn


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I've been using it for interior pvc runs now for over a year, tomorrow I have a 200 amp sub feed, a 100 amp sub feed and 60 amp sub feed all going in via smurftube and conductors, and yes, noodles and grounds are deraterd to the ultra minimum prescribed by code.


This stuff can be run anywhere except a plenum rated area/exposed right?


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I just ordered about 10k feet of papa smurf tube for a job yesterday.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I think I'm going to use smurf tube in the crawl space for the next hot tub I hook up.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Tray Cable










It's coming for your jobs.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I've tore out smurf tube but never used it yet.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Matt, I think that is one of the downfalls of lurking on here to much. It is easy to forget about workmanship and just worry about the bottom line. We have a lot of great electricians on here, but we also have a bunch of hacks.
> Sometimes when your on here for a while it is really easy to listen to the hacks and take the easy way out. This is fine for some but the real electricians that have any pride at all will stick to their guns.
> When all is said and done the good ones will still be around. The hacks will be working for someone else.



Unless 100 per cent of your work is done in robroy, (and you are paying for it, not your employer) then you are being an ass with a statement like that .

And even then, if you are doing it all in robroy, how come not MI cable? For that matter, how come not MI cable pulled into Robroy? For that matter, why not all ............


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I am dropping galvanized rigid in the same hole another dept drops two inch smurf tube with duct taped fitting. I won't give in yet.


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Unless 100 per cent of your work is done in robroy, (and you are paying for it, not your employer) then you are being an ass with a statement like that .
> 
> And even then, if you are doing it all in robroy, how come not MI cable? For that matter, how come not MI cable pulled into Robroy? For that matter, why not all ............


He's big into the whole "_My company only runs pipe, we don't do that stupid MC crap_". But he also complains that his company doesn't make any money, so...


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## azsly1 (Nov 12, 2008)

Only running conduit (emt, rmc, robroy, ect.) with all the best parts is great, but you need the money to make it happen. Using mc, fmc, ent, flex-whatever is fine to make a buck. Every job has its requirements and we have a code to follow, but it's up to us to keep the craftsmanship alive. Weather or not its coming down in a week, a year, or a decade. Anybody can whip something together, but shouldn't you have pride in your work?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

azsly1 said:


> Only running conduit (emt, rmc, robroy, ect.) with all the best parts is great, but you need the money to make it happen. Using mc, fmc, ent, flex-whatever is fine to make a buck. Every job has its requirements and we have a code to follow, but it's up to us to keep the craftsmanship alive. Weather or not its coming down in a week, a year, or a decade. Anybody can whip something together, but shouldn't you have pride in your work?


Tell me where using ENT on a job is a result of a lack of pride.

There are some idiots who say the same about romex. And Mc cable. I was probably running emt and rigid long before most of those idiots were even born. I remember when Rigid and taped up emt were our only allowed buried conduits, so when pvc came along, there were those who crybaby'd about pvc just like you find in this thread. Bury anything besides pvc in the last twenty five years? I don't think I have outside of a few gas station jobs I did.


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Tell me where using ENT on a job is a result of a lack of pride.


And then explain how wasting the customer's money with expensive pipe that they will never see without X-Ray vision equates to craftsmanship.


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## azsly1 (Nov 12, 2008)

Whoa whoa whoa. All I'm saying is that people should take pride in WHATEVER they are intstalling.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

azsly1 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa. All I'm saying is that people should take pride in WHATEVER they are intstalling.


I understood it , and agree . Sometimes texts get misconstrued . Workmanship can or can't be shown in any method that's chosen .


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

Yeah, well.... You all suck!!!!!! 










:thumbup::laughing::thumbup:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> ...This is fine for some but the real electricians that have any pride at all will stick to their guns.
> When all is said and done the good ones will still be around. The hacks will be working for someone else.


This is a surprising statement coming from a business man. This is usually what guys say when they have absolutely no care or concern for cost, only that their pipe work looks perfect. The bottom line is to make money right? Whether for yourself or someone else.

Who are the good ones?


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

Using Fisher Price conduit to reduce the time of the job makes you more money - as long as the competition is using methods that take more time to install. Once everybody is forced to use Fisher Price conduit to stay in business, the playing field is now level and all you've accomplished is fewer man-hours of work in the electrical industry and less money overall for a given job. Also, anyone can run ENT - and soon anyone and everyone will. 

We've seen the same thing with wage arbitrage by sending all the manufacturing to China. It's great for the companies that move, as long as they can undercut US manufacturers paying first-world wages. Once they all go belly-up or move to China themselves, that advantage is gone. Eventually Americans (and Canadians) can't even afford Walmart junk made in China.

It's a downward spiral.


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Tray Cable
> 
> It's coming for your jobs.


What's up with the wires coming out of the 4sq without a bushing or connector?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Stan B. said:


> Using Fisher Price conduit to reduce the time of the job makes you more money - as long as the competition is using methods that take more time to install. Once everybody is forced to use Fisher Price conduit to stay in business, the playing field is now level and all you've accomplished is fewer man-hours of work in the electrical industry and less money overall for a given job.


great point


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

It's not all about beating the competition, its also about giving the most efficient and economical solution to the customer and delivering projects quickly. If you are good at that then they keep coming back. 



socalelect said:


> What's up with the wires coming out of the 4sq without a bushing or connector?


There's a snap in busing, the panel shop goes through 1/2" ones like candy. :laughing:


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

Is y'all's ent still blue. Last few years the "smurf pipe" has gone away and it's all gray


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> It's not all about beating the competition, its also about giving the most efficient and economical solution to the customer and delivering projects quickly. If you are good at that then they keep coming back.
> 
> There's a snap in busing, the panel shop goes through 1/2" ones like candy. :laughing:


What purpose does the piece of so with a cord cap plugged into the 4sq and the other end of it goes to the same 4sq


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

socalelect said:


> What purpose does the piece of so with a cord cap plugged into the 4sq and the other end of it goes to the same 4sq


Power during service work and an option for a 120V UPS should a computer be added to the panel.


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Power during service work and an option for a 120V UPS should a computer be added to the panel.


Roger


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