# Winco 100 amp transfer switch



## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

I know this is probably a long shot and not looking to get into a code discussion on transfer switch and generator sizing, but here it goes. 

When my father decided to shut down his EC company, he had an Winco ATS-3/C 100 amp transfer switch that he gave to me. I installed it 6 or so years ago and it works fine, except this is about 25 year old technology and it does not have a time delay on the energy transfer which could be an issue (no issues yet), especially in cold weather. I believe the energy transfers when a certain voltage is registered. Has anyone tried to add a time delay to this using some cube relays? Might also like to add a delay to the start up. The generator starts even when the lights flicker. I am not even sure that these units have a UL listing which is wierd, so at least I wont be voiding that. 

If you think its not worth it, any suggestions on 100 amp transfer switches that have this technology?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

https://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/uploads/PD/Manuals/Accessories/winco_60706-131_ats_opm.pdf

Here is the manual. 
What type of delay are you looking for? Transfer back to normal?

Years ago Asco had open relay ATS's. They worked great as long as the springs were replaced. We added time delays on retransfer and also added test switches and time delays for exercising the generators. This old ASCO's were from 200-1800 amp units. Built like a tanks.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

As I recall, the utility drops out and the generator starts immediately and transfers immediately when the relay sees power, no time delay for warm up. It works, but I agree, I’d prefer some time delay for both directions, transfer to emergency and return to utility.


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## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

*This is the problem*



nrp3 said:


> As I recall, the utility drops out and the generator starts immediately and transfers immediately when the relay sees power, no time delay for warm up. It works, but I agree, I’d prefer some time delay for both directions, transfer to emergency and return to utility.


Thanks for putting in better words. This is the problem. The current unit does delay the transfer by about 30 seconds. When power goes out, we might loose it for 5 seconds. Sounds nice, but would rather sit in the dark for 15 seconds while the unit figures out if this is minor blip or wait for the generator to warm up before throwing the switch. I do have the wiring diagram, and will try to noodle out a solution to throw against the wall. I was hoping maybe someone would recommend a "Winco" upgrade that would delay the transfer of generator power.


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## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

*Thank you*

Here is the manual. 
What type of delay are you looking for? Transfer back to normal?

Years ago Asco had open relay ATS's. They worked great as long as the springs were replaced. We added time delays on retransfer and also added test switches and time delays for exercising the generators. This old ASCO's were from 200-1800 amp units. Built like a tanks.[/quote]

See my answer above. Main problem is delaying the transfer of generator power after start up. Right now it happens with in 2 seconds. My second want would be to delay the start up of the generator for 10 seconds to see if the power came back on or not. We have many "blips" here in our urban utopia. So many roads with huge king pines over the wires.


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## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

*edit*



Hockeypuck said:


> Here is the manual.
> "What type of delay are you looking for? Transfer back to normal?
> 
> Years ago Asco had open relay ATS's. They worked great as long as the springs were replaced. We added time delays on retransfer and also added test switches and time delays for exercising the generators. This old ASCO's were from 200-1800 amp units. Built like a tanks".


See my answer above. Main problem is delaying the transfer of generator power after start up. Right now it happens with in 2 seconds. My second want would be to delay the start up of the generator for 10 seconds to see if the power came back on or not. We have many "blips" here in our urban utopia. So many roads with huge king pines over the wires.[/QUOTE]

Not sure how I screwed it up, but the first two paragraphs were quotes.


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## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

*edit*



Hockeypuck said:


> Thanks for putting in better words. This is the problem. The current unit does delay the transfer by about 30 seconds. When power goes out, we might loose it for 5 seconds. Sounds nice, but would rather sit in the dark for 15 seconds while the unit figures out if this is minor blip or wait for the generator to warm up before throwing the switch. I do have the wiring diagram, and will try to noodle out a solution to throw against the wall. I was hoping maybe someone would recommend a "Winco" upgrade that would delay the transfer of generator power.


Should have said the current unit delays transfer back to the utility for 30 seconds. It transfers to generator power with in 5 seconds.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I’ve added relays to stagger the transfer of multiple transfer switches before. Should be able to do it with yours too.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

generally 2 wires start the generator then when the controller senses generator power is with in range a transfer occurs. 

Adding 30 seconds to the generator start should not be a problem if you hook the tdr to one of these wires. You could also install a transfer switch controller that has all the options available fairly cheap.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

If I were inclined to modify an certified product, my insurance company would be happier if I didn't start with a transfer switch.


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## Hockeypuck (Feb 25, 2020)

*Thank you*

Thank you for everyone's input. I will do some research and let you know what I chose to do.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I was looking for a stand-alone 2 wire controller that you can add, but probably would go with a couple relays.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I would have retransfer to normal no sooner then 5 minutes. 
Reclosure take time.
Generator cycle time a minimum of 15 minutes to atleast warm up..


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Wirenuting said:


> I would have retransfer to normal no sooner then 5 minutes.
> Reclosure take time.
> Generator cycle time a minimum of 15 minutes to atleast warm up..


Ive always considered the warm up important but recently we just had a $100k plus back up diesel pump installed and the manufacturer has the pump set to cycle 15 seconds every 8 hours to keep the wet end from drying out. I asked about warm up etc and he said that with a battery charger, oil and water heater there was no need just start at full load then shut down.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

gpop said:


> Ive always considered the warm up important but recently we just had a $100k plus back up diesel pump installed and the manufacturer has the pump set to cycle 15 seconds every 8 hours to keep the wet end from drying out. I asked about warm up etc and he said that with a battery charger, oil and water heater there was no need just start at full load then shut down.


Same here on our gen sets. Don't need warm up and cool down after retransfer is 15 minutes. Start up is set at 190v, we are mostly 208, and commit to transfer is determined if the generator gets to voltage before utility raises back up. Retransfer back to utility is 30 minutes after utility restored.


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