# Bonding a footing



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

9'x4'x5' deep with rebar.

They contractor ran #6 to the rebar to a ground rod, my opinion is this ground wire must be connected to the service ground, they are saying no:blink:

I've got a call in to the inspector, what do the ET inspectors have to say?


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Permitted by 250.64(F)(1). Note that depending on the size of the service, the #6 to the concrete encased electrode may be too small.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Bonding a footing or establishing a grounding electrode? One in the same I guess. If the footing meets requirements for an electrode it must be used. It's a grounding electrode system so all the usual rules apply just as if it were a water pipe electrode. No supplemental (rods) required though which is a bonus.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> Bonding a footing or establishing a grounding electrode? One in the same I guess. If the footing meets requirements for an electrode it must be used. It's a grounding electrode system so all the usual rules apply just as if it were a water pipe electrode. No supplemental (rods) required though which is a bonus.


Yes that is, since this in waltham :laughing:

Ledge and rocks, it's a real mother driving rods here even with a big drill an rod cup.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black Dog said:


> Yes that is, since this in waltham :laughing:
> 
> Ledge and rocks, it's a real mother driving rods here even with a big drill an rod cup.


I know it too well. :laughing:

Decent inspectors there at least. :thumbsup:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Permitted by 250.64(F)(1). Note that depending on the size of the service, the #6 to the concrete encased electrode may be too small.


Thanks Don so I'll be needing # 4 copper, it is a 200 amp service.:thumbsup:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> I know it too well. :laughing:
> 
> Decent inspectors there at least. :thumbsup:


He's coming out to look in the morning to see this master piece these guys built:laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Black Dog said:


> Thanks Don so I'll be needing # 4 copper, it is a 200 amp service.:thumbsup:


Connecting the concrete encased bonding conductor to the ground rod will also trigger the requirement for a GEC sized on T250.66 between the ground rod and the service equipment.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> Thanks Don so I'll be needing # 4 copper, it is a 200 amp service.:thumbsup:


That's correct. #4 is the max one needs but you still have to use 250.66 as Don stated. 

For instance a #4 to the concrete encased electrode is all that is needed for a 1000 amp service also.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That's correct. #4 is the max one needs but you still have to use 250.66 as Don stated.
> 
> For instance a #4 to the concrete encased electrode is all that is needed for a 1000 amp service also.


Yes I will need that for the water main too, that is going to be all copper.


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## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

To be clear, are you planning on running the #4 solid copper from the ground rod to the footing rebar, and then unbroken, back to your main panel on the structure to be bonded at the same bar that will have another unbroken #4 to the cold water bond? Just trying to visualize what you are talking about.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

If I recall you have to bond all available grounding electrodes together now correct? And by having more than one a #6 is more than likely to small.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

are you going to run stranded or solid when I run s SOlid and I can't seem to get the kinks out very well


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## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

Lep- when I first started reading this thread i thought it was for a commercial structure. Once I read 200 amp service I assumed it was a footing for a pier and beam residence. Around here the #4 GEC would be required to be solid. If it were a UFFER ground it would be allowed to be stranded in #2 minimum. I brought up the solid #4 and quite possibly may have assumed too much. Apologies if I made things more confusing...


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Don't forget to use a listed concrete encased ground clamp. The kind with the white tag on it.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

T&K said:


> Don't forget to use a listed concrete encased ground clamp. The kind with the white tag on it.


Any grounding clamp rated for direct burial is also rated for concrete encasement. 
From the UL Guide Information for Grounding and Bonding Equipment (KDER)


> Ground clamps and other connectors suitable for use where buried in earth or embedded in concrete are marked for such use. The marking may be abbreviated "DB" (for "Direct Burial").


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Phatstax said:


> To be clear, are you planning on running the #4 solid copper from the ground rod to the footing rebar, and then unbroken, back to your main panel on the structure to be bonded at the same bar that will have another unbroken #4 to the cold water bond? Just trying to visualize what you are talking about.


I do not think they make # 4 solid, I have not seen anything larger than # 8 solid.

The inspector won't call for that I'm sure, however he will be there at 0900 and give me his opinion, so who knows.

But The article Don pointed out leads you all over Article 250 and you end up at the table 250.66.

Because of the fact it is a 200 amp service #4 copper will be required for the grounding system, the ground rod will not be needed.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

you have a picture of the connector you use to attach tO the rebar


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> I do not think they make # 4 solid, I have not seen anything larger than # 8 solid.
> .


I use #4 or #6 solid on every service I build.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm drawing a blank ....where, _other than_ the MBJ / intersystem block , would this be brought?

~CS~


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Any grounding clamp rated for direct burial is also rated for concrete encasement.
> From the UL Guide Information for Grounding and Bonding Equipment (KDER)


Correct, but not all grounding clamps are rated for direct burial. Here, I have a choice, as both styles are stocked. I personally only buy the DB type with the white tag, or silver colored bolt, but if I had a couple hundred to do, such as in a factory, I would buy the cheaper type that isn't suited for direct burial or concrete encasement.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Lep said:


> you have a picture of the connector you use to attach tO the rebar


Not yet, but when I do it I will post it.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

T&K said:


> I use #4 or #6 solid on every service I build.
> 
> View attachment 37628


Good man, we learn something new each day:thumbsup:


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