# "Free" extras



## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Sounds like he needs to talk with the customer when coming up with the scope of work instead of just doing it to "code". Pretty simple really.

Does he even ask them what they want or make any recommendations when doing a walk through?


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

He's a former engineer who talks over people, inherited the company from Dad. A wee bit ignorant and arrogant. His bids say "all wiring done to meet current code standards". Lowest bid wins, he thinks he's smarter than the rest, and no one can do it better. Not realizing he got the job cuz he's 30% too low and whacks the customer with extra extra extra. He does the walk through with customer but waits to charge extra. Doesn't do 100% of what they ask for either. A lot of homeowners don't know that we can do whatever they want as long as our minimum standard is met. He doesn't do a great job of making the customer feel like they are getting the custom job personalized to their lifestyle. Customers usually say to me "I didn't know that was even an option". I'm trying to change this...


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

Why are you working for this guy?


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Pays well, never missed a check. And I can't afford to go solo...


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

electricmalone said:


> Just recently promoted in my company to a "foreman" position (its just me, apprentice, and an aging working boss) He wants me to help improve company profit, image, reputation, etc. since I came from other companies in different areas. Different point of view kind of thing. I'm trying to gently point out he nickel and dimes people to death. Everything not required by code is an extra charge for new construction.
> How does everyone do theirs? I'm not saying to cut yourself off at the knees, just think as if you were living in the house, what would help you? Space the outlets outside the headboard, double duplex in corner of kitchen counter, extra outlet in the hallway...


Thats easy to say as an employee. Why do you nickel and dime him when you stay an extra hour here and there?

Resi is tight when bidding. People and GC's want it cheap. When you design it like it was your house the cost adds up. Next thing you know someone else under bids you. The customer has no idea you were running 2 extra circuits or adding those extra receptacles because you visioned where they would put a tv or would need extra space for an appliance. 

I agree he should not nickel them for extras... he should hammer them for extras. :hammer:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

electricmalone said:


> .. he's 30% too low and whacks the customer with extra extra extra....





Auselect said:


> Why are you working for this guy?





electricmalone said:


> Pays well, never missed a check.



Check your math :thumbsup:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

electricmalone said:


> Customers usually say to me "I didn't know that was even an option". I'm trying to change this...


As long as you can get the right money for the extra. I say good. You will find once they get the bill they back off because they have to pay for those granite counter tops. and wood floors.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Are you trying to say that he should include more for the same price? If his quotes are to meet code only and he charges accordingly, then what is the problem?


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

SVT CAMR said:


> Thats easy to say as an employee. Why do you nickel and dime him when you stay an extra hour here and there?
> 
> Resi is tight when bidding. People and GC's want it cheap. When you design it like it was your house the cost adds up. Next thing you know someone else under bids you. The customer has no idea you were running 2 extra circuits or adding those extra receptacles because you visioned where they would put a tv or would need extra space for an appliance.
> 
> I agree he should not nickel them for extras... he should hammer them for extras. :hammer:


I don't nickel and dime over hours. I get a base salary with bonuses and incentives. I work 60 hrs in spring and fall and 20 hrs in summer and winter but stil get same check. I'm trying to help him with the impression he's giving the customer. They are paying $50-100k for the electrical in their brand new house, give them a couple outlets. They or gheir contractor spread the word that you do more than minimum... I don't know, maybe I'm the dummy.


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

electricmalone said:


> They are paying $50-100k for the electrical in their brand new house,.


What kind of houses are you building?!?!


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

They are tearing down 3million dollar ones on the ocean and putting up new 8500sq ft monsters, with an elevator of course


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

electricmalone said:


> They are tearing down 3million dollar ones on the ocean and putting up new 8500sq ft monsters, with an elevator of course


Wow! I wish I had money for a shack like that lol


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Are you guys dealing directly with the GC, the Customer, or Both?

Is he making good money?

What is his reputation like at the end of the job, vs. the begining?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Rochsolid said:


> Wow! I wish I had money for a shack like that lol


Start your on EC business...............The owners always make a HUGE amount of money!:laughing::laughing::blink:


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## Nick0danger (Aug 19, 2012)

homes like that, ussaly are all desinged and laid out by engineers architects and designors, should be bidding off a print, and not per square foot.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmalone said:


> Just recently promoted in my company to a "foreman" position (its just me, apprentice, and an aging working boss) He wants me to help improve company profit, image, reputation, etc. since I came from other companies in different areas. Different point of view kind of thing. I'm trying to gently point out he nickel and dimes people to death. Everything not required by code is an extra charge for new construction.
> How does everyone do theirs? I'm not saying to cut yourself off at the knees, just think as if you were living in the house, what would help you? Space the outlets outside the headboard, double duplex in corner of kitchen counter, extra outlet in the hallway...


So exactly what are you suggesting?

Are you saying he should work for free?

Do you?

If the bid was for code why would you do more for free?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

electricmalone said:


> Everything not required by code is an extra charge for new construction.


I don't know about everyone else but I'm not running a freaking free electrical stuff charity. 

If I'm building a million dollar WWTP I ain't putting in more outlets cause I think they would be useful down the road or spare conduit to here or over there on my dime. :no:


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

The sad truth is, it is hard enough to get a new construction job with a GC just pricing by minimum code. If you start throwing extras into the mix and charging acordingly, you will get even less of the jobs. If he is actually leaving 30% on the table, he needs to raise his price for code minimum installs, not include extras in his price to make up for the difference.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Let's see.
A price is agreed upon before the work begins based on what will be done.

Any work done during the job that was not agreed upon in the beginning is considered extra.

Are we on the same page now?

Edit: Just to clarify.


> ex·tra
> /ˈekstrə/AdjectiveAdded to an existing or usual amount or number.
> 
> 
> ...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

btharmy said:


> The sad truth is, it is hard enough to get a new construction job with a GC just pricing by minimum code. If you start throwing extras into the mix and charging acordingly, you will get even less of the jobs. If he is actually leaving 30% on the table, he needs to raise his price for code minimum installs, not include extras in his price to make up for the difference.


Huh? :blink:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with extras as long as the homeowner agrees with it and its not a surprise bill. I don't see nothing wrong with his approach of business.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

The more I look at it, and hearing from everyone here, it makes sense the way he's doing things... I should stop giving my side work customers phone and cable jacks in every bedroom I'm wiring. Never really thought of it as leaving money on the table. 
Really good at wiring the sh*t out of stuff, really ignorant of the business aspect of it...
Learning curve, thanks ET


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

When you go grocery shopping do they give you an extra gallon of milk, when you get your car serviced do they give you a an extra quart of oil, when you go .......... 

I say 'em, anything over and above code is an extra!! 'em all!!


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I get free coffee at the grocery store.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

BIGRED said:


> When you go grocery shopping do they give you an extra gallon of milk, when you get your car serviced do they give you a an extra quart of oil, when you go ..........
> 
> I say 'em, anything over and above code is an extra!! 'em all!!


Grocery store : no extra stuff, just a kid who brings bags to car, and takes the cart.
Oil change: no extra stuff, just a car wash and vacuuming.
I go to these places for the "extra" services at the same price. Value is value whether perceived or actual...
Just sayin


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Of value is value weather perceived or actual why not try to upsell the "extras". I mean if your cranking out these houses for the people who buy them there is a certain amount of extra items they would expect to get included verses the tract home builder down the street who "throws them up".
I am not saying give them away for free but maybe offer packages or include the items that you and I know people want and will separate you from others. I had the same problem working for a GC that did larger custom homes and renovations I tried and tried to get them to consider things that their clients wanted but they were stuck in the past. The HOs (most of them) who wanted more than a basic home would usually ask but IMHO if included it would definitely have put them on a level field with other similar contractors in this area.

With this economy sometimes a little thinking outside the box can be a good thing. What do your clients want and how can you give these things to them and make $$$$$ doing it?


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