# How to be one of those guys thats a NEC encyclopedia



## Fiki (Sep 28, 2010)

I am a lowly apprentice, just 5 months in school. I read these forums and see members spout reference codes to obscure articles all the time. It is a lot to take in and was curious to know how many of you have gotten so familiar with code? I started taking notes on the NEC just for my benefit and barley finished just the definitions through article 100. Lord knows how I will process this info once I get to conduits and raceways or PLC and class 1-3 systems. It is mind boggling for me that so many of you are familiar with it so well. I want that, the ability to determine the necessary conduit needed for 7 12awg conductors and 2 10awg conductors without having to go to 310.16 or chapter 9 tables. I am hoping to get into commercial and ideally industrial although I have not studied that quite yet. Im not looking for short cuts to doing this. It is just once I get my first job as an apprentice I would like to answer some of the journeyman's questions without having to look at the code book. I want to advance as much as I can as quickly as I can and am dedicated to my pursuit. I dont want to get flamed for this question, I am sure all of you take pride in your work and on my first day on the job I want to be the best I can possibly be. Help a junior sparky out . Maybe give me some articles that stand out in importance? Anything really, this is really just prep for my journeyman's test in the long run and maybe master later down the road. How do I learn more effectively?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I think the code gurus you are talking about have been doing this a whole lot longer than 5 months. 

For me, (I'm not one of the gurus), my code knowledge has expanded since I started participating in these forums. I keep a code book handy and often will look up the code reference when it's posted. After a while you start to remember them. 

You've taken the 1st step by participating here. Just keep reading (skip most of my posts, :laughing.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

For years after I got my license I barely ever looked at a code book. I did mostly residential and got complacent just doing that. It really wasn't till I joined the forums that I got interested and wanted to learn more. 

Also remember that some gurus are inspectors and digest this stuff day and night. Not all inspectors are as passionate as others but it helps being around it. 

Locally I helped start a chapter of the NC association of electrical contractors. We meet monthly and often discuss code issue as well as business plans etc.

So get involved and give yourself some time.... BTW I am far from being a guru as much of my experience is still residential. I listen here and at MH forum and am often lost on terms and equipments.


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*Learning how to use the NEC*



Fiki said:


> I am a lowly apprentice, just 5 months in school. I read these forums and see members spout reference codes to obscure articles all the time. It is a lot to take in and was curious to know how many of you have gotten so familiar with code? I started taking notes on the NEC just for my benefit and barley finished just the definitions through article 100. Lord knows how I will process this info once I get to conduits and raceways or PLC and class 1-3 systems. It is mind boggling for me that so many of you are familiar with it so well. I want that, the ability to determine the necessary conduit needed for 7 12awg conductors and 2 10awg conductors without having to go to 310.16 or chapter 9 tables. I am hoping to get into commercial and ideally industrial although I have not studied that quite yet. Im not looking for short cuts to doing this. It is just once I get my first job as an apprentice I would like to answer some of the journeyman's questions without having to look at the code book. I want to advance as much as I can as quickly as I can and am dedicated to my pursuit. I dont want to get flamed for this question, I am sure all of you take pride in your work and on my first day on the job I want to be the best I can possibly be. Help a junior sparky out . Maybe give me some articles that stand out in importance? Anything really, this is really just prep for my journeyman's test in the long run and maybe master later down the road. How do I learn more effectively?


Get the NECH and PDF of the NEC and load it onto your laptop or other device such as an IPAD or IPOD. You can also use earphones and have the code read to you when viewing the NEC pdf version. *View Read Out Loud*


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## Fiki (Sep 28, 2010)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Get the NECH and PDF of the NEC and load it onto your laptop or other device such as an IPAD or IPOD. You can also use earphones and have the code read to you when viewing the NEC pdf version. *View Read Out Loud*


Done! And I added you as friends. I really need to utilize these forums more. You're all a wealth of knowledge and if you dont mind, I enjoy picking your brains. Our profession is filled with fantastic electricians and some less to be desired. If I want to advance, I am going to need all of ya . Man when I get to PLC systems in 2 months, I hope you dont mind the constant posts of questions, those seem tricky.


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*Go for it!*



Fiki said:


> Done! And I added you as friends. I really need to utilize these forums more. You're all a wealth of knowledge and if you dont mind, I enjoy picking your brains. Our profession is filled with fantastic electricians and some less to be desired. If I want to advance, I am going to need all of ya . Man when I get to PLC systems in 2 months, I hope you dont mind the constant posts of questions, those seem tricky.


No problem! If you can go to the Electric West Show in Long Beach, CA next week I will be there on the 23rd and 24th. Bring a memory stick or send me your email address so I can send you stuff. I can remember when I first started long ago when some of the Code experts helped me too! I will watch you grow into a Code Expert. :thumbup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

You can go a very long way as a BS expert by just memorizing the different articles by number. The encyclopedia guys usually say something like "that would be found in article 250". 
Know stuff like #6 green or bare is the largest conductor that is required for a ground rod connection, when to use a bond bushing and stuff like that.
You can then learn the main topics of discussion like the size of a ground wire and know what table it is.
Next study 300 and know the parts we mostly use as it relates to what we commonly install such as pipe fill and junction box sizes. Big items are "angle pulls, u-pulls" and stuff like that.
Next move into 310, there you get into parallel conductors, derating conductors, voltage drop and that table in there that tells you how to use smaller sized conductors for residential feeders and stuff like that.

Study the type of work you are doing such as commercial, residential or whatever.

Next get into 370 and get into box fill and trivia like that. You will have to become an expert on how deep to dig a ditch for each wiring method, how far apart to place conduit and cable supports and you will be on your way.

The next thing that most people need help with is load calculations. Someone will need to show you this one. Find someone that has recently passed an exam and ask them to help you understand how to set up the load calculations like in the table in the back of the book.

If you get that far, I think a month of study will get you way ahead of most guys, you will be on your way..

Good luck


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The "NEC Encyclopedias" and the people who can actually do this stuff for real in the field are very often two completely different people. It's rare to find it all in the same guy, but we've got a great number of them here. :thumbsup:

Myself, I'm not so smart on the code end. I know what I know, and the rest I can usually look up pretty quickly. That's the key.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> The "NEC Encyclopedias" and the people who can actually do this stuff for real in the field are very often two completely different people. It's rare to find it all in the same guy, but we've got a great number of them here. :thumbsup:


 Very true, and I'd like to thank all of them for there time and effort.


> Myself, I'm not so smart on the code end. I know what I know, and the rest I can usually look up pretty quickly. That's the key.


 I fit into this category.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I like your initiative. That will go along way. The NEC is just another tool. You don't need to have it memorized. All you need is to know HOW to use it. Up until a year ago, I never once looked at 517. I did a job that required 517 knowledge. I learned the parts that I needed to know and passed inspection. 

As far a memorizing code sections, most guys don't do that. They have a book within arms reach and can look it up. No matter what question is thrown your way, you should be able to find the answer in less than 5 minutes.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Get the NECH and PDF of the NEC and load it onto your laptop or other device such as an IPAD or IPOD. You can also use earphones and have the code read to you when viewing the NEC pdf version. *View Read Out Loud*


Why are you teasing us with an old copy? Most of us are on the 08 or 11.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Here is another secret about some code guru guys on forum sites. Many can and do pull the relevant code section right out of their memory because they study constantly and are very passionate about it. I constantly wish I had such a great passion for the NEC, but alas I have "medium" to "medium well" passion and only cover to cover read it every new code cycle. There is One guy who has the NEC CD on his computer. and can instantly pull up the exact code for you on the forum due to the Fast Find search feature on the version of the NEC. I am quite sure that having that feature has improved the code knowledge of that one guy immensely and I wouldn't want to attempt to have to go one on one code with him at this point.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Here is another secret about some code guru guys on forum sites. Many can and do pull the relevant code section right out of their memory because they study constantly and are very passionate about it. I constantly wish I had such a great passion for the NEC, but alas I have "medium" to "medium well" passion and only cover to cover read it every new code cycle. There is One guy who has the NEC CD on his computer. and can instantly pull up the exact code for you on the forum due to the Fast Find search feature on the version of the NEC. I am quite sure that having that feature has improved the code knowledge of that one guy immensely and I wouldn't want to attempt to have to go one on one code with him at this point.


Alas, the days of the Fast Search is over, as the NFPA in it's infinite wisdom has decided not to produce the '11 on CD. It's available in PDF format, but that sucks royally compared to the old Folio View features.


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*Editions*



knowshorts said:


> Why are you teasing us with an old copy? Most of us are on the 08 or 11.


The 2008 and 2011 NEC products are available on the NFPA site and can be read on www.necplus.org 

I sent the link for the 2005 NECH because it was available when I searched for PDF files.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Well, you can still be a guru for instant answers to old code issues....:whistling2:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Joe Tedesco said:


> The 2008 and 2011 NEC products are available on the NFPA site and can be read on www.necplus.org
> 
> I sent the link for the 2005 NECH because it was available when I searched for PDF files.


Damn, you are smarter than my trap.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Seems you can't teach a person to be hungry about a subject matter, but it seems your there! Congratulations!

I'm not much different than these other blokes, I've just stayed with it!

Just a feel hints, the *Index*, I've found is a big friend. Having stated that it's funny (as my observation is) of how the NFPA presents information but the bottom line is it's a technical document.

A strong grasp of the English is required at times, if not listed in *Article 100* or the *Index* then it's an assumed dictionary understood term. A couple of words you won't find as an exact subject search in either is; Adjustment Factor, Occupancy just as an example. It might well be under another item or term, as a subset; but then one has to realize exactly what needs to be understood or how they got there for the items to be used.

If you can't find that defination use www.m-w.com
(merriam-webster.com) . Which I understand is the default dictionary for the NFPA.

Keep this in mind as you seek a term out, and recall this as you seek something in the *Index *or *Article 100* as well. The word *Index* can be both a noun and a verb, "here we go"... :thumbup:


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*Traps are often tried*

You must be from the LA area, or from or near San Diego. Are you going to the Electric West show in Long Beach?

If you are I will let you in on some of my secrets. :jester:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Joe Tedesco said:


> You must be from the LA area, or from or near San Diego. Are you going to the Electric West show in Long Beach?
> 
> If you are I will let you in on some of my secrets. :jester:


What? You can't post it here for all of use to enjoy? :001_huh:


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*OK Sargent*



480sparky said:


> What? You can't post it here for all of use to enjoy? :001_huh:


Sure! First try Google searching for NFPA NEC PDF and then add some names of major companies or names of some of the top code experts. I found the attachment here that way. I do however spend lots of money for the tools of my trade which include books, software, and other toys. I get back to you after I do 25 push ups, is that ok Sarg? :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Sure! First try Google searching for NFPA NEC PDF and then add some names of major companies or names of some of the top code experts. I found the attachment here that way.



No need to. I already have the PDFs.:whistling2: 




Joe Tedesco said:


> I do however spend lots of money for the tools of my trade which include books, software, and other toys. I get back to you after I do 25 push ups, is that ok Sarg? :laughing:


20 laps as well.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Joe Tedesco said:


> You must be from the LA area, or from or near San Diego. Are you going to the Electric West show in Long Beach?
> 
> If you are I will let you in on some of my secrets. :jester:


Yep, SoCal most of my life. Within an hours drive of LA/OC/SD/IE. Right in the middle. Hour and a half to LBCC. 

To be honest, I never really thought about going. I have received all those emails in the past about the one in Vegas. But the GF/SO/DP only wants to go to Vegas for one thing, and she can't get me that drunk. 

I didn't even know it was in LB until you came back. I am not sure of my schedule is on Wednesday or Thursday, but the $55 pass might be worth it, if I'm available.

Now, you want to know one of my secrets? I can get you in for free. Go to the loading docks off of E Seaside way. Right next to the LBPAC. Look for the guys doing the Electrical. Look for TSE or GES on their shirts. Tell them who you are and they will wave you on through.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> Yep, SoCal most of my life. Within an hours drive of LA/OC/SD/IE. Right in the middle. Hour and a half to LBCC.
> 
> To be honest, I never really thought about going. I have received all those emails in the past about the one in Vegas. But the GF/SO/DP only wants to go to Vegas for one thing, and she can't get me that drunk.
> 
> ...


I'd almost be willing to bet my last 50 bucks that at any gathering of code authorities or electrical manufacturers that Joe Todesco could walk right in the front door without anybody trying to charge him anything. At least if I ever ran a code event that is what I would make sure of. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> .............Now, you want to know one of my secrets? I can get you in for free. Go to the loading docks off of E Seaside way. Right next to the LBPAC. Look for the guys doing the Electrical. Look for TSE or GES on their shirts. Tell them who you are and they will wave you on through.



So a PhotoShopping Tool can get in for free? :laughing:


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*ElectricWest Show*

Here's a free entry registration, look it over and search the ElectricWest site for my name and you will see the programs I will present.

I never pay when I am part of that show. They provide the hotel, travel and a fee. I always pay my way when visiting other NFPA or IAEI seminars when I am representing myself. Thank for the kind words! :thumbup:

ElectricWest FaceBook Page


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

only way to become a human code book is too study and read it daily. get mike holts understanding the nec books and read them and do the questions


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## Fiki (Sep 28, 2010)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Here's a free entry registration, look it over and search the ElectricWest site for my name and you will see the programs I will present.
> 
> I never pay when I am part of that show. They provide the hotel, travel and a fee. I always pay my way when visiting other NFPA or IAEI seminars when I am representing myself. Thank for the kind words! :thumbup:
> 
> ElectricWest FaceBook Page



I would so go if it was on the weekend . Cant miss class!



electricalperson said:


> only way to become a human code book is too study and read it daily. get mike holts understanding the nec books and read them and do the questions


I enjoy his NEC code quizzes but have you ever tried watching one of his videos? Had to watch a couple when I was in mod 2 (electric theory), man that guy drinks way to much coffee.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I would recommend not trying to wholesale memorize the entire code book at once. That can be a pitfall of being the guy who only knows the code book from 08' but doesn't know the '11 or '14. Just try to memorize the parts that you will need most, and learn how to look things up.
Being able to look things up when needed is better than thinking that you have it all memorized, and didn't realize that you forgot a portion. Besides, there are usually a couple of thousand changes in the code each cycle. You gonna memorize each of them when you don't use some of them? I doubt it.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Fiki said:


> I am a lowly apprentice, just 5 months in school. I read these forums and see members spout reference codes to obscure articles all the time. It is a lot to take in and was curious to know how many of you have gotten so familiar with code? I started taking notes on the NEC just for my benefit and barley finished just the definitions through article 100. Lord knows how I will process this info once I get to conduits and raceways or PLC and class 1-3 systems. It is mind boggling for me that so many of you are familiar with it so well. I want that, the ability to determine the necessary conduit needed for 7 12awg conductors and 2 10awg conductors without having to go to 310.16 or chapter 9 tables. I am hoping to get into commercial and ideally industrial although I have not studied that quite yet. Im not looking for short cuts to doing this. It is just once I get my first job as an apprentice I would like to answer some of the journeyman's questions without having to look at the code book. I want to advance as much as I can as quickly as I can and am dedicated to my pursuit. I dont want to get flamed for this question, I am sure all of you take pride in your work and on my first day on the job I want to be the best I can possibly be. Help a junior sparky out . Maybe give me some articles that stand out in importance? Anything really, this is really just prep for my journeyman's test in the long run and maybe master later down the road. How do I learn more effectively?


I usually take one or two things out of my day and look them up in the code book. Study hard, don't cheat and ask questions lots of questions. Also like every one else said read the forums.


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## racerjim0 (Aug 10, 2008)

I've been doing this work for 13 years and I'll have to say that before I got a home computer and started reading forums with their code references, I couldn't spout too many specific codes but I knew in what area of the book to go looking. This is improving slowly though it would help if they didn't change the book as often:whistling2:!!


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

*Look at this site*

Take a look at these questions and answers

PS: I can remember when we had no computers and only a Royal Typewriter!

I sat in my car and in my truck and wrote T F and multiple choice questions. You can also find flash cards or make them up yourself. Another trick I used was to rip the index out and the contents and just read the A-Z rules.


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## racerjim0 (Aug 10, 2008)

^^^^ Nice I like that format.


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

I've been in the trade for 30 years, and for long stretches I did not use the code book much. When you work for commercial shops, you usually work off a set of engineered blueprints. Sometimes the engineering is incorrect and you have to check the codes. In order to get my California state jouneymans certification I went to a preparation course and had to get right back into the code book. It was a very good course, and taught us how to use the code book, that was about 6 years ago.
I am currently using the 2008 nec ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS workbook by Micheal l Callanan and Bill Wusinich an ATP publication. This book is illustrated and has questions at the end of each chapter, it's a very good book. I'm a new contractor and I need to be more familiar with the codes.
Keep up the good work and remember that this a reference book, like a dictionary, learn the essentials and how to use the book and you'll do fine.


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

Here's a video where the Electrical Instructor gives some really good advice!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Here's a video where the Electrical Instructor gives some really good advice!


That fat dude needs to sit on his hands while he's talking. It's very distracting. He also needs to get a man's voice.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

While it is nice to try and memorize the code, you need to be real careful that your memory, upon recall, is actually accurate. It's pretty easy to get complacent and think you know it only to find out after the work is completed that you didn't remember correctly.

It's far better to memorize the Article number you need or the general location in the NEC, but it really needs to be read each time you have a specific task to accomplish.

I know I can sometimes read the same code article several times in a row and come up with a different answer each time.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Joe Tedesco said:


> Here's a video where the Electrical Instructor gives some really good advice!


I would not, and do not listen to a thing he says.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Fiki said:


> I am a lowly apprentice, just 5 months in school. I read these forums and see members spout reference codes to obscure articles all the time. It is a lot to take in and was curious to know how many of you have gotten so familiar with code? I started taking notes on the NEC just for my benefit and barley finished just the definitions through article 100. Lord knows how I will process this info once I get to conduits and raceways or PLC and class 1-3 systems. It is mind boggling for me that so many of you are familiar with it so well. I want that, the ability to determine the necessary conduit needed for 7 12awg conductors and 2 10awg conductors without having to go to 310.16 or chapter 9 tables. I am hoping to get into commercial and ideally industrial although I have not studied that quite yet. Im not looking for short cuts to doing this. It is just once I get my first job as an apprentice I would like to answer some of the journeyman's questions without having to look at the code book. I want to advance as much as I can as quickly as I can and am dedicated to my pursuit. I dont want to get flamed for this question, I am sure all of you take pride in your work and on my first day on the job I want to be the best I can possibly be. Help a junior sparky out . Maybe give me some articles that stand out in importance? Anything really, this is really just prep for my journeyman's test in the long run and maybe master later down the road. How do I learn more effectively?




That's a very nice post. Knowledge of the NEC comes with years of hands-on experience and of course getting your nose in there and turning the pages. This site reinforces this. After awhile, a lot of code issues like box fill, conduit fill, etc, just becomes routine and if something doesn't seem right it probably isn't. It all comes down experience and years in the trade and how serious you are about the work that you do. For me, I was little embarrassed at how little I knew a few years ago, so I did something about it. You can too!


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I would not, and do not listen to a thing he says.


Seems there is some type of conflict with Joe and this fat man you speak of. Whats up with all that?


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

John

That was long ago. We are no longer at each other.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Joe Tedesco said:


> John
> 
> That was long ago. We are no longer at each other.


I think he was talking of Paul not you.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Bloopers*

Those blooper vids are funny as heck. you see the one where code boy argues with Mr. Engineer?? 

LOL :laughing:


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## Fiki (Sep 28, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Those blooper vids are funny as heck. you see the one where code boy argues with Mr. Engineer??
> 
> LOL :laughing:


You know, I was going to say something but that was funny as hell. Especially at the very end where the guy in the middle just buries his head in his hands in frustration.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I will tell you a secret that made me pretty good with code, and thou shalt honor what I like to do.

I used to have my codebook in the pooper, and while I was pooping, I'd read it. 5 or 10 mins a day is awesome!!!!!

The problem is then reverse-applying it. Trying to find a place to actually use the code. Most of my work is spelled out for me, and most of my codebook information is only for customer satisfaction.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I am a LONG WAY from a NEC expert, but what I have found works for me, is when I do anything out of my realm of typical electrical work I pull out the book and refresh my limited memory. I know what I know and realize what I do not know.

As noted above, learn how to utilize the book.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I keep reading it and reading it. And when I learn something here,, I go look it up and research it some more. 
This is a good and fun site to learn.


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

One of the very best things I ever learned in trade school was this.
You need to know how to retrieve information. You dont have to memorize information, this by itself can actually be more frustrating, because stuff is always changeing. Keep relevant tables, codes, etc. close at hand and know where to look when a question comes up. Served me well for 20+ years.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Remember, it not about knowing every code in the book, its about being able to find any code in the book.


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