# Anti Sieze on Bolted Connections?



## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

We have three phases of 34kV feeding my (our) EAF furnace. There are four 350 MCM cables per incoming phase bolted to a common bus that tie together four parallel Joslyn vacuum switches. Double that number of connections because the load side of the Joslyns are configured the same way out to the tapping transformer. So for each phase there are 32 bolted connections. I (we, they) currently use 1/2"-13 stainless steel hardware.

We PM hi-pot these Joslyn switches every month, so everything gets disassembled to isolate each switch. Today we galled up and had to cut off sixteen frozen SS bolts. I'm told that this happens every time they do this PM. Not good.

How about a dab of anti seize on each bolt? Any reason we shouldn't? I've never been a fan of wet connections in the MV, but we just take these things apart so often that I think we should look at a possible solution to a pretty big time and material waster.

They hired me as a troubleshooter. I'm going to give them their money's worth until they either listen or run me off!

Cheers,
Mark


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

yep, dab is fine. many people also use a silicon bronze nut with the stainless bolt
(you don't need anti-seize with this combination).

i can't tell by your description if you are using stress cones or not or bare or insulated but if there is any possible problem with grease getting on anything in the area be careful, check/clean everything. have one guy only do bolts and never-seize and another guy only hold the cable.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I've never had an issue using food grade non metal anti-seize (the white stuff) on stainless gear bolts.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Don't know if this will work for you, but, the anti-seize I've seen has copper in it.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

16 1/2" bolts a month for 12 months. If that's hurting their pocket you have more things to worry about. Why are you using stainless steel? 

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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We use anti sieze on all our stainless hardware for the reasons you mentioned. Nobody likes siezed fasteners.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

A convenient way to carry anti-seize and easily dispense it is in the chapstick tubes. I keep a tube in my service bag and use it on anything I want to disassemble in the future.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

https://www.crcindustries.com/world-anti-seize/

I notice that only the copper grade lists being electrically conductive.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

I've always thought that stainless is especially prone to galling when torqued. Just remember that lubricating the threads will also effect your torque values.


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## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

Peewee0413 said:


> 16 1/2" bolts a month for 12 months. If that's hurting their pocket you have more things to worry about. Why are you using stainless steel?


I sense that you may not be a manager in an industrial environment working for a stockholder company? But even if you are simply a worker bee in that environment, I'd be surprised if you didn't hear about cost reduction and time management. If you haven't, then let me explain.

There is quite often more to these types of issues than simple dollars and cents for a few chunks of material- even though throwing any money away is foolish for a business whose sole goal is to make money. Everything that is unscheduled during a routine maintenance function translates to increased time and/or money. When you consistently rack up enough of these rectifiable delays you equal a shoddy maintenance department. The goal is to minimize surprises and to keep a smooth workflow going if possible. The aim to achieve a world class maintenance department is efficiency and cost control. My original post is but one example.

Our turnarounds occur weekly and last from 16 to 24 hours. And like almost everyone else, we have a limited number of electricians to cover each turnaround. Add the fact that, in addition to a huge number of PMs and scheduled work to be done in a short amount of time, we are also the lock/ tag/ try people for some extremely complex and interlocked systems. There is no ass time on Wednesdays.

When I assign a craftsperson to a task like this PM of the twelve Joslyns, which includes bus and cable disassembly, micro resistance tests (contacts closed), Hi-Pot tests (contacts open), cycle recordings/ paperwork, general insulator and room cleaning, and reassembly, I know exactly how long this assignment should take start to finish. When stupid things slow the guy down, the entire schedule for that person could be, and often is impacted. Then I must adjust the workload or personnel placement for the rest of the day. So, things like this not only screw up the turnaround, they also screw ME up; neither of which are desirable nor acceptable.

The time spent getting a cutoff wheel, stringing an extension cord, cutting the bolt, cleaning up stress cones of the conductive swarf, going to stores for a bolt, nut and washer, wrapping the cord and angle grinder back up, and hauling it all back to the shop takes up valuable time. Now, multiply the middle part of that task list by 16. Time and material NOT well spent.

After reading the great replies to my inquiry, I’ll probably first try to get silicon bronze hardware pushed through, which I’ve always favored. If they don’t go for that then maybe just SB nuts on the stainless (though I’ll need to research compatibility and torque values). Finally, I’ll insist on anti-seize. We already use a conductive type for our Line disconnect/ grounding switch. Sounds like a dab on each bolt might save us some time during this PM.

As usual, thank you all. 
Mark


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Bronze should do it

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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

al_smelter said:


> If they don’t go for that then maybe just SB nuts on the stainless (though I’ll need to research compatibility and torque values).




https://alliedboltinc.com/Fasteners/STAINLESS-BOLT-KIT-WITH-SILICON-BRONZE-NUT~498


might be able to ask them for torque, I would guess bronze torque value or a little higher, I don't think ss torque would hurt, the bolt is the weaker link when both are the same material


1/2-13 bronze is 480 and 316ss is 542 in-lbs (40 and 45 ft-lbs)


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

When I worked at the plant I was in electrical distribution and we used stainless steel hardware on terminations without Neverseeze. We torqued everything only had a occasional problem with galling. Just lucky I guess. Remember to use wet torque values when using Neverseeze. 
In the past the plant used Silicon Bronze but you could only use them one time.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> When I worked at the plant I was in electrical distribution and we used stainless steel hardware on terminations without Neverseeze. We torqued everything only had a occasional problem with galling. Just lucky I guess. Remember to use wet torque values when using Neverseeze.
> In the past the plant used Silicon Bronze but you could only use them one time.


the connection heating up promotes galling


there are different grades of silicon bronze, from what i have seen i think the 99% copper is the best to use in most applications, the others appear brittle and i have seen one break in service(the bolt).
Burndy Durium is 99%


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

The plant had downsized so much we had more problems with overvoltage rather than overloads. 
It was not uncommon to see 480 feeeders with 510 or higher voltages. We had to have the overvoltage start disabled on a emergency generator because the generator would start and transfer because of high voltage.

LC


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## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

I have found out that we get 316 stainless hardware as bin stock. That is probably a major reason they are used for this application. I have suggested at least SB nuts and a real torque value. I saw some noses shrink up when I mentioned torque. Everything is battery impact torqued and then breaker bar verified!

Ah, to love the steel mill environment.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

al_smelter said:


> I have found out that we get 316 stainless hardware as bin stock. That is probably a major reason they are used for this application. I have suggested at least SB nuts and a real torque value. I saw some noses shrink up when I mentioned torque. Everything is battery impact torqued and then breaker bar verified!
> 
> Ah, to love the steel mill environment.


first lesson you learn as a wrench in a food grade factory (where everything is 316). 

Never use a impact as it will gaul the threads due to the fiction between the nut and bolt. its also possible for the nut to seize before it bottoms out which can trick a torque wrench in to thinking its tight. (its not so much the rattling of the impact wrench its more to do with the speed it turns the nut)

Next thing we learn is that 316 is easier to break then it is to clean up the dust from cutting so just tighten it until it pops.


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## Instrumentation (Mar 11, 2018)

gpop said:


> first lesson you learn as a wrench in a food grade factory (where everything is 316).
> 
> Never use a impact as it will gaul the threads due to the fiction between the nut and bolt. its also possible for the nut to seize before it bottoms out which can trick a torque wrench in to thinking its tight. (its not so much the rattling of the impact wrench its more to do with the speed it turns the nut)
> 
> Next thing we learn is that 316 is easier to break then it is to clean up the dust from cutting so just tighten it until it pops.



Interesting tip, I never knew that. 



anyway, I will never use stainless steel bolts without antiseize.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

Do not use copper based anti-seize on stainless in high temperature environments. Apparently at high temperatures there's a reaction that causes the stainless to crack.


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