# hard pipe to motor



## MechanicalDVR

Seen hundreds if not thousands of pumps installed that way in 30s-40s era schools, hospitals, and municipal buildings. All coming out of concrete slabs, vibration was dampened. I've never done a new install or retro fit that way, always a short length of greenfield.


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## glen1971

I've seen them on relatively new construction (within 5 years) and usually no larger than fractional horse motors... Also seen lots of 208 or 480 volt unit heaters that have been hard piped too....
I've always shaken my head with it and have tried to bring it up as it makes NO sense to me... The vibration is carried onto the conduit system and has caused straps to loosen, and in one case the wiring got rubbed through due to the vibration..
I've tried bringing it up to the client but the other contractor they use must have "some really good pictures" because nothing ever comes of it... Especially here in the land of Teck cable, I can think of no logical reason why someone would hardpipe it.. I even told the one guy, the first time a motor needs to be changed, the conduit is going in the garbage and it will be redone properly...


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## Lone Crapshooter

I have seen it several times in smaller motors. Looks like it would cause the millwrights problems when they align the motor.


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## Jlarson

I see it a lot. Never had an issue with it until I have to change the motor. Then I cut it back and throw in some sealtight.


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## ponyboy

I'll hard pipe into a transformer all day but never right into a peckerhead. Some real big motors have a cabinet style connection box which is typically common to pipe into. 


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## Jlarson

ponyboy said:


> Some real big motors have a cabinet style connection box which is typically common to pipe into.


Yeah, or sometimes wireway. Not a really problem there though, the big ones are going to be rebuilt and reinstalled or a custom replacement and we just say the connection box needs to be per this drawing bla bla.

It's when you go and replace some little rolled steel Dayton thing with a new Westinghouse cast iron that screws you. I always keep some RMC compression to sealtight transitions handy.


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## varmit

Years ago, hard piping into a motor pecker head was considered the proper way to connect the raceway to the motor. Here are some reasons:

Many industrial plants had specs calling for this method.

It was considered poor workmanship to do it any other way. ( This was a time when Ericksons (three piece couplings) were considered a sign of poor layout and a lack of planning.

In that time period, almost all motors were repaired rather than replaced. So reconnection after repair was not a problem. ( Nowadays, most any standard motor less than 25 HP, is a throw away on failure.) 

Generally, motors were anchored more rigidly and had a very precise alignment to help lessen vibration.

Yes children, the world has changed over the years. I'm still alive remembering history.


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## MechanicalDVR

varmit said:


> Years ago, hard piping into a motor pecker head was considered the proper way to connect the raceway to the motor. Here are some reasons:
> 
> Many industrial plants had specs calling for this method.
> 
> *It was considered poor workmanship to do it any other way.* ( This was a time when Ericksons (three piece couplings) were considered a sign of poor layout and a lack of planning.
> 
> *In that time period, almost all motors were repaired rather than replaced.* So reconnection after repair was not a problem. ( Nowadays, most any standard motor less than 25 HP, is a throw away on failure.)
> 
> *Generally, motors were anchored more rigidly and had a very precise alignment to help lessen vibration.*
> 
> Yes children, the world has changed over the years. I'm still alive remembering history.


*Quality over quantity was a work style and in equipment purchased.

Back then motor alignment was checked before starting, even on smaller motors. 

Workmanship was a matter of pride.*


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## tommydh

I have seen it though never recommended. Greenfield in an industrial setting also is very rare in my experience I have never been able to use it in either plant I was at nor in any instyalls either seal/liquid tite or a "orse ****"( flexible steel style conduit) to allow motor change. Please say at least there is an Ericson/union style fitting close to allow motor replacement


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## MechanicalDVR

tommydh said:


> I have seen it though never recommended. Greenfield in an industrial setting also is very rare in my experience I have never been able to use it in either plant I was at nor in any instyalls either seal/liquid tite or a "orse ****"( flexible steel style conduit) to allow motor change. Please say at least there is an Ericson/union style fitting close to allow motor replacement


Greenfield of FMC is the most common way for a long time. Sealtite would be the SOP for an exterior mount, seem odd coming off a 1900 box on a stub out of the slab.


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## glen1971

tommydh said:


> Please say at least there is an Ericson/union style fitting close to allow motor replacement


I saw 2 motors that were rewired a couple of years ago with a composite teck cable (3 power and 3 control wires in it) and laughed the first time I saw them.. The "electrician" threaded a close nipple, to a tee into the motor terminal box, then used liquid tight flex to the controls out the second port of the tee and the cable connector was installed in the third.. To change this motor means either removing the terminal box and spinning it off, then adding a union.. Or unhooking the controls and pulling them out, then unhooking the cable and doing it right on the reconnect.. Either way it should be a learning lesson for a dumb install..


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## tommydh

MechanicalDVR said:


> Greenfield of FMC is the most common way for a long time. Sealtite would be the SOP for an exterior mount, seem odd coming off a 1900 box on a stub out of the slab.


Well I rarely use FMT in the plants I was workinjg in for 2 reasons it isnt durable nor would it last with the general lack of common sense in te labor force. I generally would stub up in rigid through slab then either change over to Liquid tight witout a bow or at most a conduit body. Once again 1900 box would last about 30 minutes from time I put cover on and went to office those guys would drop something on it and cru**** or simply try to F it up/.


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## MechanicalDVR

tommydh said:


> Well I rarely use FMT in the plants I was workinjg in for 2 reasons it isnt durable nor would it last with the general lack of common sense in te labor force. I generally would stub up in rigid through slab then either change over to Liquid tight witout a bow or at most a conduit body. Once again 1900 box would last about 30 minutes from time I put cover on and went to office *those guys would drop something on it and cru**** or simply try to F it up/.*


You just have to love working around a group of simians!


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## Big John

Still common for me to see it on large frame motors, >1kHP. They set and align the motor, then the guys pipe to wherever it sits.

If you gotta remove it, the conduit is definitely the least of the concerns.


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## MechanicalDVR

Big John said:


> Still common for me to see it on large frame motors, >1kHP. They set and align the motor, then the guys pipe to wherever it sits.
> 
> If you gotta remove it, the conduit is definitely the least of the concerns.


Yeah man, haven't been around big motors like that in a long while.


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## glen1971

Big John said:


> Still common for me to see it on large frame motors, >1kHP. They set and align the motor, then the guys pipe to wherever it sits.
> 
> If you gotta remove it, the conduit is definitely the least of the concerns.


With teck cable going pretty much everywhere up here, every motor has a flexible connection north of the 49th.. Some places are using more and more tray cable for motors (and controls), which I can't stand the thought or look of...


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## Jlarson

glen1971 said:


> Some places are using more and more tray cable for motors (and controls), which I can't stand the thought or look of...


Cause the tray cable doesn't have the ribbed look? :laughing:


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## glen1971

Jlarson said:


> Cause the tray cable doesn't have the ribbed look? :laughing:


True.. But without the armor the looks like a bunch of SOW thrown into a cable tray.. And when tyrapped, it gets a slight twist in it to add to the aesthetics... (insert sarcasm above)...


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## Jlarson

I just get the pre twisted stuff.


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