# IEC or Schooling



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

callidus said:


> Hello everyone! Hopefully everyone that is suffering through this winter is staying safe and warm. Also wall of text is incoming, just as a warning.
> 
> I've always considered doing electrical as a back up in case my life didn't go as planned. It was something I've been interested in, but not quite sure if I wanted to go that route as a career. Now that I'm reaching 30 and been bouncing from job to job for 10 years trying to find a company that I want to retire at, I'm here hoping that I can find what I'm looking for in this trade. However, I'm a bit conflicted on how I want to do it. I don't really want to go union, since one reason why I've hated the companies I have worked at is because of the politics and skeletons in the closet that I have a bad habit of uncovering fairly early on. I'm a motivation-based worker, so as soon as I realize that a company abuses the employees I tend to lose any motivation I previously had. I still do my work, since I also have a "I'm getting paid to do this, so I'm gonna do this" mentality, but I stop caring about coming to work early, I tend to take more bathroom breaks, more arguments with supervisors when they're being toxic, things like that. All that being said, this is why I'm terrified of joining a union. I don't like the feeling of being stuck in an abusive work atmosphere. That and the fact that I may not get hired into one, get laid off, etc.
> 
> ...



I am 70 and retired now for 7 years, "I want to know what I am going to do when I grow up"

Today's world you have to be certified to get people to even consider you. That takes two things knowledge and skill. School can provide knowledge but if you do not know how to do the job at speed you will not retain a job. 
If the schools you find are only book work and no practical application then you may as well go to an university and get a BS in what ever discipline you want. That way every major company can take advantage of you, knowledge no skill. I have worked with enginners with PE licenses that I had to beat over the head. Kept saying you can not do that. It took time eventually they understood what was wrong with their concept.

You mention I&C then chemistry, the two have nothing to do with each other. I&C is a specialty sub set of the electrical industry. You end up in large company who whores you out for ungodly amounts of money. Not that you see that. Most of my I&C work was at a University and an Electrical MFG. Two places out of the 70 or so on the resume. I ended up knowing a lot about the processes but never dealt with the chemistry of those processes. You need an analytical mind that can follow logic with out tripping over your own feet. For me I&C was a lot like writing PLC programs, something I liked but did not want to be a code monkey. I flew over 100 flights a year when I was a trouble shooter for the MFG. Impossible to have a relationship. There was even the week where I hit 3 states and 2 countries. The money was good, not great, just good.

Do your investigation of trade schools COMPLETELY. All of the ones that were around when I was coming up are gone today. Fastest way to evaluate a school is ask if you can get federal money to pay for tuition. If they are not on the list for veterans walk calmly and quickly to the door. I have taught at two different schools and was terminated by both for not following the lesson plan. I interjected safety into the class room. I would ask the students to pick out all of the safety/code issues daily. Took less than a 1/2 hour a day. Safety is huge deal nowadays with the advent of Arc Flash. I worked at a mine where we were forbidden to open a panel door to trouble shoot. Ya that worked! So we worked in pairs and one would keep an eye out for the safety police or supervision so the other one could find and repair the problem. Stupid way to work. They all knew what we were doing but the rules never changed. Mines are an inherently dangerous place to work. They did try to keep us alive by not being stupid or asleep at the controls.

Remember what ever you become interested in you start at the bottom and work up. Unless your trenching.( humor ) This means wild swings of pay. 

Long ago there was a commercial for Lucent telephones. The sales guy would go into a business with his black desk phone and the offices were using video phones. The remark was "It was state of the art; this morning" The industry changes at the speed of light. Just not in every part of the industry.


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## callidus (Feb 15, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> I am 70 and retired now for 7 years, "I want to know what I am going to do when I grow up"
> 
> Today's world you have to be certified to get people to even consider you. That takes two things knowledge and skill. School can provide knowledge but if you do not know how to do the job at speed you will not retain a job.
> If the schools you find are only book work and no practical application then you may as well go to an university and get a BS in what ever discipline you want. That way every major company can take advantage of you, knowledge no skill. I have worked with enginners with PE licenses that I had to beat over the head. Kept saying you can not do that. It took time eventually they understood what was wrong with their concept.
> ...


Thank you for the response! I did mess up by saying "chemistry" in my original comparison, so I changed it to "chemical" which would be more accurate. The reason why I made the comparison is because of the few videos I've seen on the field is that they tend to deal with temperature variables, pressure, pH level, figuring out flow, things like that. I guess those would all be job dependent though, since I'm sure it's all company dependent. Or maybe I misunderstood it.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I once knew a Geologist that transferred into the electrical trade at age 40. Anything is possible.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

*6 month vocational school, minimum.

*5 years working on the books for a licensed master electrician, have proof with w2s. Every state is different, but around my parts that's enough for licensing. You can be your own boss in 5 years.

*Accept that you're working for minimum wage most of those years.

*Have a good attitude and ability to learn. The rest will be beaten into you with linesman pliers by your jman. Just kidding... You know... Kinder gentler these days.

I think you'd do fine considering your background. Good luck.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Honestly there are "civilian" electrical jobs jobs offered by the armed forces. The pay is good from the information my nephew gave me and you might be able to branch out from there.
I&C seems like a good choice, if you enjoy it. I'm not sure what that stands for but it might cost a lot for tuition and stuff.
It could very well be that the service would pay for continued education. idk
You might even consider looking for a company union or non union that would pay for your schooling.
This is a poor mans opinion and I'm just trying to help.
You seem like you have lots of valuable lessons you have learned just by working and those skills translate into all kinds of things.
Instrumentation work heat treat calibration and panel building are some other options.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

callidus said:


> I've always considered doing electrical as a back up in case my life didn't go as planned.


  is this LGLS again?



> It was something I've been interested in, but not quite sure if I wanted to go that route as a career. Now that I'm reaching 30 and been bouncing from job to job for 10 years trying to find a company that I want to retire at, I'm here hoping that I can find what I'm looking for in this trade.


Why do you think this will be different? I am not saying you're wrong - you may very well love the trade - I am just wondering why you think that.



> However, I'm a bit conflicted on how I want to do it. I don't really want to go union, since one reason why I've hated the companies I have worked at is because of the politics and skeletons in the closet that I have a bad habit of uncovering fairly early on. I'm a motivation-based worker, so as soon as I realize that a company abuses the employees I tend to lose any motivation I previously had. I still do my work, since I also have a "I'm getting paid to do this, so I'm gonna do this" mentality, but I stop caring about coming to work early, I tend to take more bathroom breaks, more arguments with supervisors when they're being toxic, things like that. All that being said, this is why I'm terrified of joining a union. I don't like the feeling of being stuck in an abusive work atmosphere. That and the fact that I may not get hired into one, get laid off, etc.


I am very curious where you formed your impressions of trade unions. Why do you think you'd be stuck in a union? You can always leave. You'll probably take a pay cut, especially benefits, but to paraphrase some poet, it's better to have made the big bucks for a little while, than to never make it at all. And you do get to take the education with you.

Now on the other hand, it's is generally pretty hard to switch to union mid-career, depending on the local.

Why do you think union environment would be more drama prone? Nothing personal, I don't know you, but if a person's drama prone where ever they go, it's usually because they're a drama queen. They think this bullshit follows them where ever they go but in reality they ought to check their own shoes.

The apprenticeship is a barrier to entry. If you can look at an apprenticeship as five years of indenture, where you earn your learning by doing the low value / low pay grunt work your superiors don't want to do, there is hope. If you look at it as exploitation, sounds like you'll implode way before it pays off.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I would think that an I&C TECHNICIAN would not really have to deal with grunt work. It takes a special breed to fill that position. Not everyone is cut out for that type of work and it keeps evolving over time. This is my observation of instrumentation and controls. 1 in 10 electricians might be good at it but the other 9 just can't cut it. I am in the category of the ones that know my limits. 
Example: You have a million dollar piece of hardware inside an autoclave and the operator tells you that he is falling out of tolerance and it needs to be corrected ASAP or the part will be scraped. He also mentions that the vendor was in yesterday and swapped out the PLC from an Alen Bradly to a GE. You have not really worked with that model of PLC but you should still be able to get it back into tolerance. Some guys can just jump in there and fix it but usually that's not the case and it sucks being under that type of pressure.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

IEC or I&C? I hate acronyms. International Electric Code or Industrial & Commercial contractor?


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## GatewaySparky (Jul 23, 2010)

kb1jb1 said:


> IEC or I&C? I hate acronyms. International Electric Code or Industrial & Commercial contractor?


Independent Electrical Contractors, Instrument & Control.


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