# Is big work bad for a local?



## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

The local I am in has recently experienced a horrendous downswing in work. A power plant, hospital, and a large factory expansion finished all within a month of each other and now we are at 50% unemployment. This local had clear books for a few years due to all this work along with employing a few hundred travelers.

I feel that all of the big work has actually undermined the market share of our local because with all of the hands working the contractors did not bid on all of the smaller jobs that were going on at the time. No traveler would take a 40 hr a week job and miss out on ot at the powerhouse, so nobody was available to fill the spots anyway.

Right now everybody is going " where's the work?", I say we let it go. Whats your opinion?

Just fyi, I'm asking due to inexperience with these dynamics concerning fluxes in market share. Somebody with alot of time in the trade could enlighten me.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I have noticed that in CA that one of the biggest mistakes the locals have done is focusing mainly on the large projects. They basically let everything else go non union. The vast majority of these projects are sweetheart deals and the public is tired of footing the bill. The vast majority of the citizens have a dislike for the unions. This feeling is geared more toward the public service unions, but will have an effect on the trade unions also. If the unions don't change (both public and trade) things will be extremely different in 10 years.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

I have posted this here before but since your asking I will state it again. The Union is hurting itself by not being able to man projects (i am mainly talking about my area). We turn down projects and turn down bidding projects because we can not get the man power. All we are ever told is " hire who ever you want". To me that is the Union not holding up its part of the agreement but they expect the contractor to be held word for word to the agreement.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

The problem with Texas is your rates are so low folks will not travel there to work. Raise your wages a bit and I'll wager your book II will fill up pretty quick, but when you are paying less than I make on unemployment...

However, the unions need to focus on smaller projects across the country. I'm not sure how we do that but I see that here in Northern NJ...too many doable projects getting manned non union.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

eejack said:


> The problem with Texas is your rates are so low folks will not travel there to work. Raise your wages a bit and I'll wager your book II will fill up pretty quick, but when you are paying less than I make on unemployment...


I thought everything was bigger in Texas? :whistling2::laughing:


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Not A Rate...lol


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

eejack said:


> The problem with Texas is your rates are so low folks will not travel there to work. Raise your wages a bit and I'll wager your book II will fill up pretty quick, but when you are paying less than I make on unemployment...


You pay/agree on a wage that will let you be competitive in your area. What good is a higher wage if it prices you out of the work? If the Union can not up- hold their part of agreement (furnish men) then they should not agree and sign the agreement.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BDB said:


> You pay/agree on a wage that will let you be competitive in your area. What good is a higher wage if it prices you out of the work? If the Union can not up- hold their part of agreement (furnish men) then they should not agree and sign the agreement.


That is part of the issue. In Texas - wage earners are beaten so low ( union, non union ) that no one wants to work there. You want quality workers ( union, non union ) you have to attract them with something - and we all know that means money in Texas.

A funny state Texas - they cut $73 million for family planning only to incur $273 million in additional costs. Texas sometimes doesn't make much sense.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

What's rate for a mechanic in south Texas?


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

butcher733 said:


> The local I am in has recently experienced a horrendous downswing in work. A power plant, hospital, and a large factory expansion finished all within a month of each other and now we are at 50% unemployment. This local had clear books for a few years due to all this work along with employing a few hundred travelers.
> 
> I feel that all of the big work has actually undermined the market share of our local because with all of the hands working the contractors did not bid on all of the smaller jobs that were going on at the time. No traveler would take a 40 hr a week job and miss out on ot at the powerhouse, so nobody was available to fill the spots anyway.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like some people in your local need to strike out on their own. My local is chalk full of giant jobs and small jobs, and yes we have "given" away plenty of the small work there are contractors out there killing it staying small and taking all the work the big players don't want. On top of all that there is plenty of nonunion work going around also. But 332 is a bit of an anomaly, so take it for what it's worth.
Oh and I know it's controversial, but does your local do market share? It can definitely help the smaller shops stay competitive at certain times


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

RUSSIAN said:


> Sounds to me like some people in your local need to strike out on their own. My local is chalk full of giant jobs and small jobs, and yes we have "given" away plenty of the small work there are contractors out there killing it staying small and taking all the work the big players don't want. On top of all that there is plenty of nonunion work going around also. But 332 is a bit of an anomaly, so take it for what it's worth.
> Oh and I know it's controversial, but does your local do market share? It can definitely help the smaller shops stay competitive at certain times


What's the "market share" that is controversial?


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I think he's referring to market recovery.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> I think he's referring to market recovery.


Correct, I must have had a brain slip that day


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

knowshorts said:


> I have noticed that in CA that one of the biggest mistakes the locals have done is focusing mainly on the large projects.


It's called survival.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

butcher733 said:


> The local I am in has recently experienced a horrendous downswing in work. A power plant, hospital, and a large factory expansion finished all within a month of each other and now we are at 50% unemployment. This local had clear books for a few years due to all this work along with employing a few hundred travelers.
> 
> I feel that all of the big work has actually undermined the market share of our local because with all of the hands working the contractors did not bid on all of the smaller jobs that were going on at the time. No traveler would take a 40 hr a week job and miss out on ot at the powerhouse, so nobody was available to fill the spots anyway.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say " big work " is hurting locals . It the big jobs that clear the benches an keep this ball rolling . I do agree that the IBEW needs to be a little more proactive in seeking out the not so big jobs too . I think they know this an are starting to explore this in my local . Work is work and you really can't snub your nose at a 2 month project over a 2 year project . What happened where you are was a perfect storm of a bunch of big jobs all ending at once . This will hurt any local , and does happen if there's nothing on the books ready to go . I've been in my local for 8 years , and in 2002 the guys I worked with were coming off of a huge building boom . Cleared bench , all the OT you could ever want , everybody happy and making money . It been a slow steady decline since then , but I believe will bounce back eventually . Hang in there !


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

big2bird said:


> It's called survival.


Or looking for a bigger ROI.


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> I think he's referring to market recovery.


OK, explain this controversial "market recovery" please.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

butcher733 said:


> OK, explain this controversial "market recovery" please.


From what I've heard it's pay to play.


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## usair (Mar 27, 2013)

when your down to 8% market share you got to do something different.


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## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

My local does not do any residential or small jobs. It's a huge mistake.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

butcher733 said:


> OK, explain this controversial "market recovery" please.


Basically, the contractor gets help from the local to bid jobs lower then the contracter can afford, in order to compete with small non-union shops.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> Basically, the contractor gets help from the local to bid jobs lower then the contracter can afford, in order to compete with small non-union shops.


And round here the men make a reduced "market recovery" rate. An apprentice put it best on that for me. A jman goes from 25 to 22 dollars an hour . That sucks. He then said I go from 15 to 11 an hour. That's lost food he said.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Hence the small works rate.


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

RUSSIAN said:


> Basically, the contractor gets help from the local to bid jobs lower then the contracter can afford, in order to compete with small non-union shops.


That's called a "target" fund in my local. No reduced rate though.


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