# Recessed cans/time



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

One hour if all accessible


----------



## Drew Dodsworth (Jun 23, 2013)

Gotcha. Thanks


----------



## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

At least an hour to plan the layout, unpack them, get the ladder, screws, etc. maybe more if the homeowner is involved. Fifteen minutes *each *to wire them all up to the switch. 

Don't forget tp staple the wire,drill the holes... and even get the wire from the truck.

The cans are there right?


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Takes me forever.. but I'm not a first year apprentice with a slave driving boss. lol 

No matter how fast you go, some bosses will still say it shouldn't have taken you that long.


----------



## Drew Dodsworth (Jun 23, 2013)

Haha glad I'm not the only one. It'll pick up with time


----------



## Drew Dodsworth (Jun 23, 2013)

And @dave yeah 15 mins each sounds about right.


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Just go as fast as you can, but always make sure you're doing the work properly the first time. 

A guy who is slow, but does the work properly might be a thorn in a bosses butt... but a guy who goes fast and screws it up every time, will be a goner.


----------



## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> One hour if all accessible


BS. Not to unpack them, plan the layout, measure them out and mount them, run wire and then wire them up. Seems more like 2 hours to me, if everything goes smooth


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

jimmy21 said:


> BS. Not to unpack them, plan the layout, measure them out and mount them, run wire and then wire them up. Seems more like 2 hours to me, if everything goes smooth


I was thinking 3hrs... I just didn't want to say it after McClary's 1hr. :laughing:


----------



## Derek1 (Mar 27, 2013)

yep, I agree with the 2-3 hours.

Assuming this is new construction and not remodel cans.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Drew Dodsworth said:


> I'm a first year apprentice, I've just now started working in the field (approx. 3 months) and I've never delt with recessed cans before this. Just wondering on how long it should take to mount 6 cans (in a kitchen) and have them all wired. And yes normal typical house joists.


 
Typically 2 ou 3 hours the most unless you have something in the way of the luminaire like air ductwork or plumming stuff that do show up so just be aware with it.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

FastFokker said:


> I was thinking 3hrs... I just didn't want to say it after McClary's 1hr. :laughing:


I think you are right. I was thinking 2 if the room had perfectly square straight walls making layout a breeze and you could just throw each one up real fast. Seems like every time I lay out can lights, nothing is straight, there is nothing to measure off of and once I figure out where I want them, something is in the way


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Laser plumbs are inexpensive and make this job so much quicker. Just mark your fixture centers on the floor und shoot the laser up.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Derek1 said:


> yep, I agree with the 2-3 hours.
> 
> Assuming this is new construction and not remodel cans.


2 to 3 hours to wire 6 cans in new construction? I bet I can do it in under an hour but the most 1 1/2 hours . I have done 6 cans in remodel in under 5 hours- clean up and all.


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

It would take me 30-45min to mark them out properly (presuming I'm deciding the layout). Another 30-45 to mount them all. Then another 30-45 mins to drill and pull the wire. Then another 30-45 mins to splice them up.

That's min 2hr, max 3hr. 

I don't doubt others can do it faster than me... but seriously, under an hour for the whole thing??


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

FastFokker said:


> It would take me 30-45min to mark them out properly (presuming I'm deciding the layout). Another 30-45 to mount them all. Then another 30-45 mins to drill and pull the wire. Then another 30-45 mins to splice them up.
> 
> That's min 2hr, max 3hr.
> 
> I don't doubt others can do it faster than me... but seriously, under an hour for the whole thing??



Why would it take 45 minutes to nail up 6 cans after it is laid out


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Why would it take 45 minutes to nail up 6 cans after it is laid out


Never know whats up there where you want to mount the light. Might have to do some cutting, chopping, notching, trimming for at least one or two of them to make them work with a decent lay out.

Could be 30mins or less, or could be 45mins or more.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

A lot of this discussion so far has ignored the quality of the fixture in the equation. You could spend an extra hour sorting out the mess , when provided some cheaper take off versions of recess housings I have had to deal with when other's have provided them. And for remodel cans- well I had to deal with 5 Elco pieces of offal the other day where the template for the cut was perfectly matched by my hole saw, but the can doesn't make the turn at that diameter, so now I had to make the openings larger by a few fractions to allow for that. With Elco if you try to slightly bang it in with the palm of your hand, the softer than a baby's ass metal of that junk collapses and now your trim doesn't fit properly and won't snug to the ceiling.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If I have a remo job and there is attic space I will not use the retro cans. My men hate it but if a standard can can go in then that is what I will do. Rarely use the retro's.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If I have a remo job and there is attic space I will not use the retro cans. My men hate it but if a standard can can go in then that is what I will do. Rarely use the retro's.


Why do they hate it?


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Why do they hate it?


My guess is that they have to go up there in that situation.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> My guess is that they have to go up there in that situation.


Yep. Run the wires and get out of there. Easier for them to make the joints below then up there.


----------



## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If I have a remo job and there is attic space I will not use the retro cans. My men hate it but if a standard can can go in then that is what I will do. Rarely use the retro's.


So what do you do with them? I'm assuming you nail them? Or do you use lightolier or just use screws?

The number one reason for spending as little time as possible in the attic...and using remodel cans, IMO, is NAIL POPS. You never know what you are going to get.

I'm just trying to understand your reasoning to make more work and leave the possibility open to ceiling damage. I can't seem to find ANY advantage to using a new work can in an old work/remodel situation.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

svh19044 said:


> I'm just trying to understand your reasoning to make more work and leave the possibility open to ceiling damage. I can't seem to find ANY advantage to using a new work can in an old work/remodel situation.


I don't like the way many of the retros clip to the drywall/plaster. I would rather just lay the new work fixture on top of the ceiling, tap the nails a little, and know that it ain't going anywhere.


----------



## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

The remodel cans can be a real pain to get the clips to all lock in .but you don't have to spend a lot of time in the attic .


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

svh19044 said:


> So what do you do with them? I'm assuming you nail them? Or do you use lightolier or just use screws?
> 
> The number one reason for spending as little time as possible in the attic...and using remodel cans, IMO, is NAIL POPS. You never know what you are going to get.
> 
> I'm just trying to understand your reasoning to make more work and leave the possibility open to ceiling damage. I can't seem to find ANY advantage to using a new work can in an old work/remodel situation.


I nail the cans in as I would on new construction. My reasoning is that I don't like supporting something with an 1/8" lip. Have you ever had a regressed eyeball where you had to push it up real hard? On old sheetrock it can push the can thru and then you are out of luck. 

Some trims never sit well with the retro cans either. I bet it doesn't take longer

I make them up and then put them in from above. Then I staple to the next can , make it up and lay it in, etc. Really not any longer and in fact may take less time.


----------



## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

What kind of can's are you all using? I have found that Lightolier has the better clips for plaster, but Juno has better "coverage" with the trims. The Juno clips are easily tapped in up to about 3/4" thick plaster, and over that, you can bend the clips and tap them in fine.

It's certainly, by a long shot, considerably less work and risk than climbing in to the attic and beating the nails against the ceiling joists.


----------



## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I nail the cans in as I would on new construction. My reasoning is that I don't like supporting something with an 1/8" lip. Have you ever had a regressed eyeball where you had to push it up real hard? On old sheetrock it can push the can thru and then you are out of luck.
> 
> Some trims never sit well with the retro cans either. I bet it doesn't take longer
> 
> I make them up and then put them in from above. Then I staple to the next can , make it up and lay it in, etc. Really not any longer and in fact may take less time.


I use the correct size holesaw. I have never encountered a trim that does not fit well inside the can that it was meant for either, though I haven't exactly tried every single trim made. The only time that I have had problems with eyeballs was with OLD housings where the hole was cut poorly and it was either caulked or spackled loosely in. So sure, in those cases, a new work can would have helped out, but a proper hole would have made more sense.

I suppose it's possible that you can do them faster or in the same amount of time, but I don't see how. If there is attic, you can bet that I'm stapling the wires with my insulated staple gun as well to make the installation clean. That part doesn't change.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

svh19044 said:


> What kind of can's are you all using? I have found that Lightolier has the better clips for plaster, but Juno has better "coverage" with the trims. The Juno clips are easily tapped in up to about 3/4" thick plaster, and over that, you can bend the clips and tap them in fine.
> 
> It's certainly, by a long shot, considerably less work and risk than climbing in to the attic and beating the nails against the ceiling joists.


Depends on the attic. If I could walk in without crawling, that way is easier.

You don't have to sink the nails in all the way, just tap them in a little bit. The fixture is already laying on the drywall/plaster, the nails are just to stop it from lifting when you put the trim in.

I've used Halo 4" remodels recently and the clips sucked on 1/2" drywall. I could only get 3 out of 4 in each one.


----------



## rcar (Apr 28, 2013)

Once you do enough houses there really isn't much layout. You know as soon as you look up where they will go. After that it's just a matter of getting them even. I could get the 6 cans up in ~20 minutes. Depending on joist type i could have them all wired in about the same time.


----------



## Drew Dodsworth (Jun 23, 2013)

Saw this on the job site I was on last week. Not only did these guys miss our pendant lights and a can but, the water lines too. Gotta love it haha it happens I guess. Had to craw up in the attic and relocate the can, was easily done, so I see where you are coming from with rather having your guys up in attic.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Reessed cans in insulated ceilings are a PITA unless it's new construction. We can have 12" to 18" of blown insulation in an attic. Installing cans from above is difficult. Remodel cans are okay Halo quit making the airtight ones with the foam gasket and some of the other manufacturers require that the can be sealed in with silicon or drywall mud. Building inspectors here are really concerned with penetration of the vapor barrier. I'm looking forward to the day when cans are replaced with surface mount LED's and all you do is drill a hole and drop an 18/2 cable from above.


----------



## joebeadg (Oct 7, 2008)

You guys are faster than me. I pin up the templates to the ceiling showing the customer what they will look like , then I stick a ceiling support wire through sheetrock in each can location to check for obstructions, only then do I make my first 6" hole. Takes more time, but customer knows what the layout will look like, and I wont find an obstruction in the last can location to make the whole job look bad. No way I'd use new wk cans for old wk. for stubborn spring clips, I just tap them with my sidecutters, or put a screwdriver on it and bang it with my palm. It'll go in even if it rips the aluminum a little.


----------



## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

joebeadg said:


> You guys are faster than me. I pin up the templates to the ceiling showing the customer what they will look like , then I stick a ceiling support wire through sheetrock in each can location to check for obstructions, only then do I make my first 6" hole. Takes more time, but customer knows what the layout will look like, and I wont find an obstruction in the last can location to make the whole job look bad. No way I'd use new wk cans for old wk. for stubborn spring clips, I just tap them with my sidecutters, or put a screwdriver on it and bang it with my palm. It'll go in even if it rips the aluminum a little.



Your 'support wire' can't be very big? Cause what if you do hit something? Then you've got a hole in the ceiling?

If the 'support' wire isn't very big, have you ever ran into a problem of being too close to a truss? Too close to plumbing vents? Too close to 'rat runs'? 

Just curious. Not trying to argue. Just trying to make sense of a different way of doing it


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Last remodel cans I installed were 4x 6" cans, wired from existing fan box in 1 1/2 hours to cut, pull wire, install. 

After layout, if it takes you more than 10-15 minutes a can to run wires and nail up new construction cans then you are sloooowwww.


----------



## joebeadg (Oct 7, 2008)

I shape the support wire, which is very stiff BTW like an S, except with shrper turns. Make a small hole, like with a large screwdriver, then poke my wire up there and turn it around and around as I go up a little higher then the height of the can. the wire is bent in a way where while turning it , the diameter is a little more then rhe can too. I do that for each can I intend to install. Only then do I make my holes. If I hit an obstruction, then I have to reposition all my can locations so all will go up without trouble. The pilot holes are so small they can be easily filled and are not noticeable even looking for them. Hope I explained that OK.


----------



## SamoanThor (Oct 18, 2013)

My boss bills them out an hour per can, including the trim. I knocked out 9 with a traveler in just under 40 minutes. Granted, I may not have been OSHA compliant in my ladder climbing. And, should they bite, just remember: A little blood makes the electrons flow faster.


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I use a drill with # 10 hex heads to install new work recessed lighting fixture.


----------



## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

I've timed myself with my stopwatch a few times and it usually takes 15 minutes each for typical residential construction excluding million dollar house with weird housings. this is with the cans with the push-in connectors, which I've never had a problem with.

I wouldn't worry too much about time, to a degree, at this point. just work carefully and methodically and get it right the first time without mistakes.


----------



## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

rcar said:


> Once you do enough houses there really isn't much layout. You know as soon as you look up where they will go. After that it's just a matter of getting them even. I could get the 6 cans up in ~20 minutes. Depending on joist type i could have them all wired in about the same time.


You can lay out, install and wire 6 cans in 40 minutes? I call BS!  That means you can rough in a conference room with 63 cans in one 8 hour day by yourself. I am subtracting 30 min for lunch, 15 min for break and 15 min poop break. I don't think so. I hope you are an employee and not a contractor. :no: If you bid such a job at 8 hours you are going to eat alot of hours of labor. Like a couple days worth.


----------



## SamoanThor (Oct 18, 2013)

I hereby accept your challenge, given the following parameters: Ceiling is no more than 11ft tall and I get 4 Monsters. And some skittles.


----------



## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

btharmy said:


> You can lay out, install and wire 6 cans in 40 minutes? I call BS!


It takes me at least 40 minutes of billable time to just unload some conduit & fittings, smoke a cig & think about putting the cans in :laughing:


----------



## guschash (Jul 8, 2007)

I take 4 hrs. I don't rush and I don't care if someone can do it in 1 hr. I charge them for 4hrs even if I can do it in a hour. All jobs are different, who knows what you are going run into. Might be able to do new construction in hour that would be pushing it. Get your game, bring in what you need, work on ladder, mount cans, run wire, put everything back in truck. One hour , right.


----------

