# Found these today



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

That's some fugly panel wiring, the wireman should give himself a haircut like that.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Seems pretty common for me to see screwed up grounding at an SDS: No grounds, parallel grounds, floating neutrals, etc., etc. I think it throws a lot of guys for a loop.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Sooo million dollar question..... Do u Bond in transformer or panel?


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## ghostwriter (Nov 1, 2007)

The equipment bonding jumper needs to be separated in the disconnect switch.

It also appears that the equipment bonding jumper is sized too small. Can't really tell. It is based on the size of the ungrounded condutors (250.66)

The XO (neutral) is grounded in the transformer. Everything after that need to have the grounds and neutral seperated.

So it is similar to a service but not in its entirety


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Big John said:


> Seems pretty common for me to see screwed up grounding at an SDS: No grounds, parallel grounds, floating neutrals, etc., etc. I think it throws a lot of guys for a loop.


Ten four there. I've worked with many jman, some 10+ more years my senior, that had no clue how to bond/ground transformers


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## Briancraig81 (May 25, 2007)

ghostwriter said:


> The equipment bonding jumper needs to be separated in the disconnect switch.
> 
> It also appears that the equipment bonding jumper is sized too small. Can't really tell. It is based on the size of the ungrounded condutors (250.66)
> 
> ...


The transformer is being fed from a 480v panel that is being fed from the main switchgear. I was always told that in a situation like this you dont treat it as a service, you just bond the frame of the transformer to the equipment ground and keep your neutrals isolated. Guess I could have been told wrong and its been years since ive personally wired one up


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Briancraig81 said:


> The transformer is being fed from a 480v panel that is being fed from the main switchgear. I was always told that in a situation like this you dont treat it as a service, you just bond the frame of the transformer to the equipment ground and keep your neutrals isolated. Guess I could have been told wrong and its been years since ive personally wired one up


The transformer is creating a separately derived system , so your secondary xo ( neutral ) needs to be bonded with the ground . It's usually done in the transformer as it is here , but it can be done in the panel too .


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Briancraig81 said:


> The transformer is being fed from a 480v panel that is being fed from the main switchgear. I was always told that in a situation like this you dont treat it as a service, you just bond the frame of the transformer to the equipment ground and keep your neutrals isolated. Guess I could have been told wrong and its been years since ive personally wired one up


You will have a floating neutral, xo should be bonded in the transformer. A transformer like you describe is a separately derived system. If you haven't been bonding neutral to ground in these transformers, you have been doing them wrong and could have serious issues


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> You will have a floating neutral, xo should be bonded in the transformer. A transformer like you describe is a separately derived system. If you haven't been bonding neutral to ground in these transformers, you have been doing them wrong and could have serious issues


You don't have to do it in the transformer. You can do it in the first means of disconnect. I always run my GECs to the new panel and bond there. Keeps the transformers less cluttered. It throws a lot of guys off doing it this way because they don't see a ground going from the tran to the new secondary


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> You don't have to do it in the transformer. You can do it in the first means of disconnect. I always run my GECs to the new panel and bond there. Keeps the transformers less cluttered


Correct! However I think the OP is saying that the ground and neutral should be keep completely separate. They need to be bonded. Whether you choose to do it in the transformer or panel is personal preference. I usually do it in the transformer, but either way works.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

In Brian's picture the grounds and neutrals are triple-bonded and should be separate in the disconnect and panel. I think that's the error he was pointing out


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Big John said:


> In Brian's picture the grounds and neutrals are triple-bonded and should be separate in the disconnect and panel. I think that's the error he was pointing out


I agree with you, it should only be bonded in one place not all 3.

That isn't what he is saying. He's saying they shouldn't be bonded at all.


Briancraig81 said:


> The transformer is being fed from a 480v panel that is being fed from the main switchgear. I was always told that in a situation like this you dont treat it as a service, you just bond the frame of the transformer to the equipment ground and keep your neutrals isolated. Guess I could have been told wrong and its been years since ive personally wired one up


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## Briancraig81 (May 25, 2007)

I have learned something tonight. I did think that they had to be seperate but I realize now I was wrong. I could have mis-understood the guy who told me that many years ago or he just flat out told me wrong. I found an EC&M article that went into detail a bit. I did comercial for a few years 10+ years ago and have recently come back into it.

Brian is right, i was pointing out also that it was tripple'd.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Looks like it should just be ripped out, spit on, and redone correctly.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Briancraig81 said:


> I have learned something tonight.


That's why we all come here. 

I learn something here almost everyday.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Briancraig81 said:


> I have learned something tonight. I did think that they had to be seperate but I realize now I was wrong. I could have mis-understood the guy who told me that many years ago or he just flat out told me wrong. I found an EC&M article that went into detail a bit. I did comercial for a few years 10+ years ago and have recently come back into it.
> 
> Brian is right, i was pointing out also that it was tripple'd.


It's all good. Whenever I run across something at work that I don't fully understand I go home and google the shít out of it until I feel like an expert on the subject.


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