# Union apprenticeship numbers



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Dillinger4 said:


> I found this article and was surprised by the numbers. "More than 400 candidates are vying for 40 to 50 apprentice slots" Even if half of those 400 candidates failed the entrance exam there are still 200 candidates to be interviewed so only 20% of those will be accepted. But I can't see a 50% failure rate. Perhaps but I didn't think the exam was that difficult. So we could be talking about an acceptance rate of 16%? Maybe 10%? Is getting into the IBEW usually this tight?
> 
> http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/local/2015/03/08/recession-need-electricians-booms/24522199/


I'm Training Director for a small JATC. You'd be surprised how many applicants can't pass the aptitude test. Last round of testing I think the failure rate was maybe 40%-ish. I send out sample questions with applications and a note recommending that the candidate brush up on their algebra skills.

In my opinion algebra skills are crucial for this trade, but to pass the classroom curriculum, I would argue that trigonometry is just as important, at least in dealing with AC Theory, power factor, etc.

Part of the problem is the high school counselors like pushing all their kids to college. Even the ones that don't really want to, or don't know what they want to do. When I go do job fairs, they always haul over their reject 1.3 GPA kids and say, "Here, you can be an electrician!"

I have been meeting up with many of the counselors in my area and educating them a bit. Hopefully it makes a difference. I've already seen a slight uptick in the quality of applicants.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

But to answer your question, getting into the IBEW apprenticeship can be pretty tough, depending on your geographical area and what kind of work is going on.

If our applicants meet our minimum qualifications, then they get to take the aptitude test. If they pass that, then they move on to the interview. Their interview gets scored and they are placed in a ranked applicant pool. Whoever is 1st on the list is the first one to get dispatched when a contractor requests a new apprentice.

Some people with lower scores can sit on that list for quite a while, especially if there isn't much going on work-wise.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

erics37 said:


> I
> In my opinion algebra skills are crucial for this trade, but to pass the classroom curriculum, I would argue that trigonometry is just as important, at least in dealing with AC Theory, power factor, etc.
> 
> Part of the problem is the high school counselors like pushing all their kids to college. Even the ones that don't really want to, or don't know what they want to do. When I go do job fairs, they always haul over their reject 1.3 GPA kids and say, "Here, you can be an electrician!"
> .


And 6 months out of school the average 1st year JW cannot tell you the primary or secondary amperage of a 75 kva 480-208/120 delta/wye transformer, if you gave them the answer.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Hopefully the failure rate is 70%+. :laughing:


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## Shimy (May 24, 2015)

erics37 said:


> I'm Training Director for a small JATC. You'd be surprised how many applicants can't pass the aptitude test. Last round of testing I think the failure rate was maybe 40%-ish. I send out sample questions with applications and a note recommending that the candidate brush up on their algebra skills.
> 
> In my opinion algebra skills are crucial for this trade, but to pass the classroom curriculum, I would argue that trigonometry is just as important, at least in dealing with AC Theory, power factor, etc.
> 
> ...


I am looking to take the test soon. If you don't mind Erics37 what sample questions did you pass out to the applicants?


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Shimy said:


> I am looking to take the test soon. If you don't mind Erics37 what sample questions did you pass out to the applicants?


I couldn't find the sample questions which I had received from my local but the sample test on NJATC's page is pretty close to what was sent.

http://www.electricaltrainingalliance.org/SamplePage


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Shimy said:


> I am looking to take the test soon. If you don't mind Erics37 what sample questions did you pass out to the applicants?


The link that Dillinger4 posted is where I get my sample questions I pass out to applicants. Electrical Training Alliance is the new name of the NJATC and the site has some pretty good info on it for the most part. Your local JATC is the best resource though of course - they should have an applicant info packet or something similar for people to peruse.



Dillinger4 said:


> I couldn't find the sample questions which I had received from my local but the sample test on NJATC's page is pretty close to what was sent.
> 
> http://www.electricaltrainingalliance.org/SamplePage


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

Some locals and industries are even harder to get into than others, local 3, 6, and 11 come to mind. 804 people applied at the my utility, 4 got spots for apprenticeship.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Dillinger4 said:


> I found this article and was surprised by the numbers. "More than 400 candidates are vying for 40 to 50 apprentice slots" Even if half of those 400 candidates failed the entrance exam there are still 200 candidates to be interviewed so only 20% of those will be accepted. But I can't see a 50% failure rate. Perhaps but I didn't think the exam was that difficult. So we could be talking about an acceptance rate of 16%? Maybe 10%? Is getting into the IBEW usually this tight?
> 
> http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/local/2015/03/08/recession-need-electricians-booms/24522199/


Take 400 test scores and find the mean average. Anyone under that becomes the new failure. You're left with the upper 50 percentile to interview. Some of those won't show up for the interview because between the test and interview date, something happened. (Moved, got into some other program, got cold feet, is in jail, etc.)

After the interview, or sometimes between the test and interview the applicant is asked to come in for the medical. That's when many of the stoners and habitual recreational drug users are eliminated.

At the interview, 80% pass. Apprentice classes are setup and depending on the actual number, school starts in the Fall or Fall and Winter. Whatever the actual number of first year apprentices is, 50% of them will not complete the program.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

JW Splicer said:


> Some locals and industries are even harder to get into than others, local 3, 6, and 11 come to mind. 804 people applied at the my utility, 4 got spots for apprenticeship.


Coast locals. Yeah I could see it being almost impossible to get into any of them just because those areas are so populated.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Dillinger4 said:


> Coast locals. Yeah I could see it being almost impossible to get into any of them just because those areas are so populated.


My Local takes up nearly 300 miles of coastline and we have less than 20 apprentices :laughing:


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

erics37 said:


> My Local takes up nearly 300 miles of coastline and we have less than 20 apprentices :laughing:


That's crazy.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Dillinger4 said:


> That's crazy.


Oregon Coast! 363 miles of dramatic scenery punctuated by small pockets of population. We are quite rural.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

erics37 said:


> Oregon Coast! 363 miles of dramatic scenery punctuated by small pockets of population. We are quite rural.


Ever spot Mick Dodge in your travels? :laughing:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> Ever spot Mick Dodge in your travels? :laughing:


Mick is in Washington. Washington is where they have some weird people. Eric is in Oregon. Oregon is where they have a few non weird people. 


So not being a Union guy.... Do you think you guys are allowing enough apprentices into the union to take care of the retiring guys? Especially considering that if you let in 50 guys, you can be damn sure you won't graduate 50 guys.

I wonder about the trades allowing and giving opportunities enough to the younger guys in general, is it enough?


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Switched said:


> Mick is in Washington. Washington is where they have some weird people. Eric is in Oregon. Oregon is where they have a few non weird people.
> 
> So not being a Union guy.... Do you think you guys are allowing enough apprentices into the union to take care of the retiring guys? Especially considering that if you let in 50 guys, you can be damn sure you won't graduate 50 guys.
> 
> I wonder about the trades allowing and giving opportunities enough to the younger guys in general, is it enough?


Duh. Wrong state. Sorry. 

At my local I know there is going to be a good amount of younger guys who are going to get in because while waiting on line to get into the building to take the entrance exam I heard a lot of "my dad this my uncle that".


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I rather like the idea that the failure rate, at every step along the way, is so high. Feelings about unions in general aside, the IBEW is supposed to be the finest temp service to employ top-notch electricians in North America. I think it is. In order to do that, a great many must wash out to allow the smartest and most skilled few to earn their credentials.


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