# 20amp receps



## knowledge29 (Nov 6, 2010)

How many of you guys install 20amp receps when wiring a new home. like in the living room,family room etc. reason im asking is,Went to a service call and saw a home recently rewired (recent as in a little over a year).The house has all 20amp receps. I usually dont see that.Homeowner said the contractor stated the home is wired in 12/2 for all receps and bedrooms. Just curious to see how many of you guys do this.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I would never waste money on 20 amp receptacles in a residence.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I would never waste money on 20 amp receptacles in a residence.


Sounds like something that Mike Holmes guy would demand 

The odds of somebody actually having a gizmo that came with a 20 amp plug anywhere other than their garage is slim to none.


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## knowledge29 (Nov 6, 2010)

I agree, home owner didn't seem to mind. I just found it odd. Not sure how much more it cost the contractor to do so.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

knowledge29 said:


> I agree, home owner didn't seem to mind. I just found it odd. Not sure how much more it cost the contractor to do so.


Well if the homeowner was willing to pay for them of course I wouldn't have any issue with that. I mean they are certainly a better quality and heavier duty receptacle. Maybe the contractor had a bunch left over from a commercial job or something.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I always instal 20s on my 20!amp circuits


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> I always instal 20s on my 20!amp circuits


Waste of money.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

backstay said:


> I always instal 20s on my 20!amp circuits


 :blink: which one ? singleplex or duplex


BBQ said:


> Waste of money.


It is a waste of money with 20 amp duplex recepectales due the 15 amp duplex are allready rated for 20 amp feed thru so that end of that one.

Merci,
Marc


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Over here we have no choice. By CEC the receptacle rating has to match the branch circuit overcurrent protection. The only 20A recep circuits we run in a typical house are countertop though.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Over here we have no choice. By CEC the receptacle rating has to match the branch circuit overcurrent protection. The only 20A recep circuits we run in a typical house are countertop though.


Some amendments here have that too


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

Were they tamper resistant?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

frenchelectrican said:


> :blink: which one ? singleplex or duplex
> 
> It is a waste of money with 20 amp duplex recepectales due the 15 amp duplex are allready rated for 20 amp feed thru so that end of that one.
> 
> ...


I put 20 amp duplex receptacles in the SABC, laundry and baths. I charge for it, and the 15 amp duplex is code minimum. I don't do code minimum houses. I leave that work for the low bid ECs.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

That's usually a sign that the homeowner has got his hands on a code book  He sees the 20-amp breaker and thinks he needs 20-amp receptacles.


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## Cib911 (Sep 12, 2012)

knowledge29 said:


> How many of you guys install 20amp receps when wiring a new home. like in the living room,family room etc. reason im asking is,Went to a service call and saw a home recently rewired (recent as in a little over a year).The house has all 20amp receps. I usually dont see that.Homeowner said the contractor stated the home is wired in 12/2 for all receps and bedrooms. Just curious to see how many of you guys do this.


I will do it in certain circumstances. For instance in my home I will have 12/2 for all standard receptacles and 20a receptacles. When you look at the power requirements of items it is generally going up not down. With many people working from home it is not uncommon for them to have 2 computers, 4+ monitors, speakers, cable modem etc.. plugged into one room. It is not uncommon for me to see it running from one receptacle. While it doesn't technically call for a 20a receptacle for 12/2 I generally try to build it to where they'll be taken care of in the future.

Most people won't use that kind of power for a while but if the owner is up to it I prefer to over build it due to the fact we will be using more power in the future not less.


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## knowledge29 (Nov 6, 2010)

no (k buz). just regular receps.


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## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

Cib911 said:


> I will do it in certain circumstances. For instance in my home I will have 12/2 for all standard receptacles and 20a receptacles. When you look at the power requirements of items it is generally going up not down. With many people working from home it is not uncommon for them to have 2 computers, 4+ monitors, speakers, cable modem etc.. plugged into one room. It is not uncommon for me to see it running from one receptacle. While it doesn't technically call for a 20a receptacle for 12/2 I generally try to build it to where they'll be taken care of in the future.
> 
> Most people won't use that kind of power for a while but if the owner is up to it I prefer to over build it due to the fact we will be using more power in the future not less.


 There is still no reason to use 20a receptacles unless you have devices with 20a cord ends. I can't imagine to many situations where you wouldn't need a dedicated circuit for an appliance like that. Just one more line of items to stock in my opinion.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

the only appliance i have ever seen with a 20 amp cord end was my hot box.


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## Cib911 (Sep 12, 2012)

KGN742003 said:


> There is still no reason to use 20a receptacles unless you have devices with 20a cord ends. I can't imagine to many situations where you wouldn't need a dedicated circuit for an appliance like that. Just one more line of items to stock in my opinion.


It is situational but there are gaming computers that are 1500 watts, when you factor in 2 monitors, speakers and an external HD or two you can very easily get close to that number. When you factor that this is a constant load on the line it could require one. Most people would have all of that run from one receptacle, they plug in an APC then connect everything to it.

Again it is situational and not something I'd put in every home but it is something I would consider. As said for my personal home I'd over build it this way due to long term power requirements are going up significantly.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Cib911 said:


> It is situational but there are gaming computers that are 1500 watts, when you factor in 2 monitors, speakers and an external HD or two you can very easily get close to that number. When you factor that this is a constant load on the line it could require one. Most people would have all of that run from one receptacle, they plug in an APC then connect everything to it.
> 
> Again it is situational and not something I'd put in every home but it is something I would consider. As said for my personal home I'd over build it this way due to long term power requirements are going up significantly.


If it has a 15A cord end, what difference does it make? The equipment isn't designed to handle more than 15A, and if you are that worried about it, put in spec grade receptacles and call it a day.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cib911 said:


> It is situational but there are gaming computers that are 1500 watts, when you factor in 2 monitors, speakers and an external HD or two you can very easily get close to that number.


What power supplies are rated for and what they actually draw in use are almost always very different.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I would never waste money on 20 amp receptacles in a residence.


Computers are not that far away from needing a NEMA 5-20R:thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Computers are not that far away from needing a NEMA 5-20R:thumbsup:


Tim the toolman BS.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Computers are not that far away from needing a NEMA 5-20R:thumbsup:


But what kind of cord cap do they have?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Computers are not that far away from needing a NEMA 5-20R:thumbsup:



Ummm...yeah they are. Processing power is getting more and more efficient by the day, and in standard work stations the power supplies aren't much bigger than they were 15 years ago. It's only in very special applications where the real current draw is, and in any commercial use, that device will get a dedicated 20 amp circuit anyway.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> But what kind of cord cap do they have?


a nema 5-20P!

There are power supplies out right now that if ran at full output would require a 20A circuit. Ball bs or not IDGAF look it up yourself.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> Ummm...yeah they are. Processing power is getting more and more efficient by the day, and in standard work stations the power supplies aren't much bigger than they were 15 years ago. It's only in very special applications where the real current draw is, and in any commercial use, that device will get a dedicated 20 amp circuit anyway.


im not talking your standard "work station" im talking about a $4k gaming machine.... you would be suprised at how many people have an even more expensive computer.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Ummm...yeah they are. Processing power is getting more and more efficient by the day, and in standard work stations the power supplies aren't much bigger than they were 15 years ago. It's only in very special applications where the real current draw is, and in any commercial use, that device will get a dedicated 20 amp circuit anyway.


What size circuit does a server require in a data center? I thought they always wired them for 30 amps, but I could be wrong. 

But a PC? Yeah, if it's drawing near 20 amps it's also rejecting most of that as heat in some form or another. Doesn't make sense. :no:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> What size circuit does a server require in a data center? I thought they always wired them for 30 amps, but I could be wrong.
> 
> But a PC? Yeah, if it's drawing near 20 amps it's also rejecting most of that as heat in some form or another. Doesn't make sense. :no:


video cards make a LOT of heat.. not fun in the summer


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## Cib911 (Sep 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> What power supplies are rated for and what they actually draw in use are almost always very different.


Very true. Again this was a strange case, a relative asked me to take a look at it since it kept kicking the breaker. I ended up running a dedicated circuit to the computer, I tested it the draw on the whole line was just nuts. I have some pretty heavy duty computers at my house but man a computer drawing 5-8 amps surfing the web and 10+ when the kid was gaming was just nuts. I've worked with servers that didn't hit that mark.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Peter D said:


> What size circuit does a server require in a data center? I thought they always wired them for 30 amps, but I could be wrong.
> 
> But a PC? Yeah, if it's drawing near 20 amps it's also rejecting most of that as heat in some form or another. Doesn't make sense. :no:


I wasn't talking about servers specifically, but I have wired a few for a radio station and they were all speced to have 20A circuits.


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## Cib911 (Sep 12, 2012)

TOOL_5150 said:


> video cards make a LOT of heat.. not fun in the summer


No they aren't lol. Especially if you have two cards in one box, whew. I do programming and have two monitors on my work computer, plasma (sic), and two for my home desktop. Plus the computers themselves, that one room gets 10 degrees above the rest of the house. The wife gets mad when she comes home and the house is freezing because it was 85 in the computer room lol.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> im not talking your standard "work station" im talking about a $4k gaming machine.... you would be suprised at how many people have an even more expensive computer.


I have a gaming machine that I have $2500 sunk into over the years, with a 700w power supply with room for expansion. I just decided it was a waste of money to sink more money into the thing. :laughing:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Cib911 said:


> No they aren't lol. Especially if you have two cards in one box, whew. I do programming and have two monitors on my work computer, plasma (sic), and two for my home desktop. Plus the computers themselves, that one room gets 10 degrees above the rest of the house. The wife gets mad when she comes home and the house is freezing because it was 85 in the computer room lol.


or 4 video cards and quad monitor setup.:thumbup: 

Yeah.. computers are efficient.. as space heaters!


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> I have a gaming machine that I have $2500 sunk into over the years, with a 700w power supply with room for expansion. I just decided it was a waste of money to sink more money into the thing. :laughing:


Im on the same boat as you. My computer is old, but can play the games i [occasionally] play... I have a few servers that run circles around todays gaming machines, they also make heat. Along with the network switches, redundant PSUs, UPS, and all the other little crap reqired to make things work.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I put in all 20 Amp receptacles in my own house when I built it 23 years ago. They are heavy-duty type, and are still in great shape!

The same can not be said for the el-cheapo residential grade 15 Amp ones. I get service calls all the time to replace worn-out outlets that are many years newer than mine. :whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> I put in all 20 Amp receptacles in my own house when I built it 23 years ago. They are heavy-duty type, and are still in great shape!
> 
> The same can not be said for the el-cheapo residential grade 15 Amp ones. I get service calls all the time to replace worn-out outlets that are many years newer than mine. :whistling2:


A NEMA 5-20 spec grade is the same as a NEMA 5-15 spec grade, just without the T slot.

You are talking apples to cars... amperage rating VS service duty.

you want a receptacle that will take a beating.. get the ones with a green dot, hospital grade.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> im not talking your standard "work station" im talking about a $4k gaming machine.... you would be suprised at how many people have an even more expensive computer.


As a percentage of all the PCs in homes I bet it is less than a full percent

Your system, your friends systems, your online gaming buddies systems are not even close to the majority. 

For those folks that dump $4K plus into a PC can afford to have a dedicated circuit of whatever size they need.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


> As a percentage of all the PCs in homes I bet it is less than a full percent
> 
> Your system, your friends systems, your online gaming buddies systems are not even close to the majority.
> 
> For those folks that dump $4K plus into a PC can afford to have a dedicated circuit of whatever size they need.


and when youre already an electrician, you can really afford that dedicated circuit. :brows:


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## Selectric (Aug 18, 2009)

knowledge29 said:


> How many of you guys install 20amp receps when wiring a new home. like in the living room,family room etc. reason im asking is,Went to a service call and saw a home recently rewired (recent as in a little over a year).The house has all 20amp receps. I usually dont see that.Homeowner said the contractor stated the home is wired in 12/2 for all receps and bedrooms. Just curious to see how many of you guys do this.


IMO, it is a classic example of a commercial only electrician working on residential.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Aren't 20a receptacles required in Canada?


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## Cib911 (Sep 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> As a percentage of all the PCs in homes I bet it is less than a full percent
> 
> Your system, your friends systems, your online gaming buddies systems are not even close to the majority.
> 
> For those folks that dump $4K plus into a PC can afford to have a dedicated circuit of whatever size they need.


Very true. But it just means you need to speak with the customer about their needs and uses when doing certain work. Many customers 15a will work just fine, for others it will not be enough. There are more and more people using higher amp sound systems, tvs, computers and other items that when they plug in an APC or surger protector they are pushing 15a at a receptacle sometimes.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Cib911 said:


> I will do it in certain circumstances. For instance in my home I will have 12/2 for all standard receptacles and 20a receptacles. When you look at the power requirements of items it is generally going up not down. With many people working from home it is not uncommon for them to have 2 computers, 4+ monitors, speakers, cable modem etc.. plugged into one room. It is not uncommon for me to see it running from one receptacle. While it doesn't technically call for a 20a receptacle for 12/2 I generally try to build it to where they'll be taken care of in the future.
> 
> Most people won't use that kind of power for a while but if the owner is up to it I prefer to over build it due to the fact we will be using more power in the future not less.


14/2 , 10 points sometimes even 12 on a circuit. Problem later concerning an overload? My number is in the panel, and of course CL is on the internet.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Did a job a couple years the guy wanted 20amp recps in the whole add't....12/2 of coarse...this was a huge add't.....pita...told him that he didn't need to do this...told me his brother in law was an electrical eng and told him this way was better.....oooookkkkkkaaayyyy....I used deeper boxs of coarse but wtf he has been a good customer over the years..he likes to play electrician so I get called every few years to clean things up ....:laughing:...going there saturday....out door lighting is shocking everyone..(he installed)last year he opened one of the 4 gangs to add a 3 way dimmer...oh boy...pics tomorrow :thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> 14/2 , 10 points sometimes even 12 on a circuit. Problem later concerning an overload? My number is in the panel, and of course CL is on the internet.


10 points? Thats not many points....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> 10 points? Thats not many points....


based upon 150 watts at each outlet. 12.5 amps at full load. i squeeze a couple extra in every once in a while depending on the circumstances.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> based upon 150 watts at each outlet. 12.5 amps at full load. i squeeze a couple extra in every once in a while depending on the circumstances.


in resi, you can put 500 receptacles on 1 15A circuit. Not a good design, but still..


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

who waist money on 20 amp recpt in resi work


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## beElectric (Sep 16, 2012)

knowledge29 said:


> How many of you guys install 20amp receps when wiring a new home. like in the living room,family room etc. reason im asking is,Went to a service call and saw a home recently rewired (recent as in a little over a year).The house has all 20amp receps. I usually dont see that.Homeowner said the contractor stated the home is wired in 12/2 for all receps and bedrooms. Just curious to see how many of you guys do this.


Generally for residential homes 15 amp receptacles are all you need they are actually rated for 15 or 20 amps. In the nec book read article 210.21. Also see table 210.21(b)(3).


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

If they're so great why where did you have a service call? Was it anything to do with the last electrician's work? I think it would be a complete waste. Put in better stuff not the $.49 plugs sold at Blowes or HD.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Isn't a regular 15a recep rated for 20a feed through? If the circuit is 12/2, and the breaker is 20a, and the cord end is 15a.... I don't see what good it is to put a 20a recep in? Other than just mechanically less susceptible to wear and tear. Electrically though, I don't see a benefit?


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I'm sure we all here know 20 amp device all by itself must be 20 amp outlet. More than one on the circuit and it can be 15 amp, nec.


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## triden (Jun 13, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> Aren't 20a receptacles required in Canada?


Yes on a 20amp branch circuit. Like mentioned above, they are only really ever used on kitchen counters


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Out here if you run a 20 amp circuit for kitchen or dine rm you will have 20 amp receptacles or fail.


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## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

triden said:


> Yes on a 20amp branch circuit. Like mentioned above, they are only really ever used on kitchen counters


Are there alot of kitchen appliances in Canada-land with 20amp cord ends? I suspect it is extremely rare, as it is here in the states. It's more than likely a case of some bureaucrat deciding that, like amplifiers that go to 11, if 15amp receptacles are good 20amp must be great!


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