# vapour barrier around recessed lights



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Welcome to the new world order. It just keeps getting better and better.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

PlugsAndLights said:


> A recent thread discussed electricians needing to add
> vapour barrier around switches/plugs in outside walls.
> Since this seems to be new to our southern neighbours,
> I thought I'd provide a pic of an insulated ceiling with
> ...


I actually have this picture saved on my phone for reference.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

That installation is known to cause cancer in California.:laughing:

What do you have to do to add retrofit cans in a ceiling like that? Do you have to remove all the sheetrock to ensure that the plastic is taped all over?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

PlugsAndLights said:


> A recent thread discussed electricians needing to add
> vapour barrier around switches/plugs in outside walls.
> Since this seems to be new to our southern neighbours,
> I thought I'd provide a pic of an insulated ceiling with
> ...


Nice work :thumbsup:
Is that the kitchen area ?

On that other thread, someone mentioned just using standard 6 mil vapour barrier for boxes... that's what I've done, works out great and cheaper than the pre made vap barriers.

That and lots of 3M tape :laughing:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Majewski said:


> I actually have this picture saved on my phone for reference.


That's odd considering you're already in Canada. :thumbup:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Switched said:


> That installation is known to cause cancer in California.:laughing:
> 
> What do you have to do to add retrofit cans in a ceiling like that? Do you have to remove all the sheetrock to ensure that the plastic is taped all over?


What DOESNT cause cancer in California?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Majewski said:


> What DOESNT cause cancer in California?


Saw a sign on a commercial building yesterday "This building has materials known by the State of California to cause cancer".

It made me wonder when we are getting our tattoos at birth.......


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

emtnut said:


> Nice work :thumbsup:
> Is that the kitchen area ?


Don't know. I've done lots of jobs like this, but this one 
isn't mine. Found it using google image search. Sounds
like Majewski might have found it the same way.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

MTW said:


> Welcome to the new world order. It just keeps getting better and better.


If by "new world order" you mean homes that warmer in the winter
and cooler in the summer & much cheaper to keep them that way,
then bring on the new world order! 
P&L


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Don't know. I've done lots of jobs like this, but this one
> isn't mine. Found it using google image search. Sounds
> like Majewski might have found it the same way.


I had it sent to me by a friend when I was asking about methods for old work to maintain vapor barrier. Still unsure how the picture answers my questions but I kept it none the less!


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## WIsparky71 (Mar 7, 2015)

We haven't been asked to do this yet in Wisconsin. However, we use all HALO air tight cans. I'm not sure if that's really good enough, but they do have a foam gasket. One contractor we work for does an air seal package, meaning all the cieling boxes,cans, and tops of walls get covered in spray foam. Makes it a pain if you ever need to work on anything up there.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

WIsparky71 said:


> We haven't been asked to do this yet in Wisconsin. However, we use all HALO air tight cans. I'm not sure if that's really good enough, but they do have a foam gasket. One contractor we work for does an air seal package, meaning all the cieling boxes,cans, and tops of walls get covered in spray foam. Makes it a pain if you ever need to work on anything up there.


No doubt. How do you have access to the JB when the fixture is covered in spray foam?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> No doubt. How do you have access to the JB when the fixture is covered in spray foam?


From inside the can, same as if there was a finished floor installed above the can.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

With a estwing hammer!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jrzy said:


> From inside the can, same as if there was a finished floor installed above the can.


I'm visualizing a recessed fixture completely encapsulated in spray gunk.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Majewski said:


> I had it sent to me by a friend when I was asking about methods for old work to maintain vapor barrier. Still unsure how the picture answers my questions but I kept it none the less!



Hopefully this one helps. You get your butt up there and take your scissors.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

daveEM said:


> Hopefully this one helps. You get your butt up there and take your scissors.


Lmao, I go into attics with buckets with cutting utensils and tyvec tape. Now if I do it correctly is another story.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Majewski said:


> Lmao, I go into attics with buckets with cutting utensils and tyvec tape. Now if I do it correctly is another story.


Put in a Lotus Light. You'll mangle the VB when you cut your hole but that can usually be fixed from below.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

You are correct sir! I put in more jboxes for fans than cans though.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Around here they still use open cell spray foam and no vapor barriers. I had my house Tyveced, new windows and siding and now my windows condensate in the winter and mold because the house is to tight.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jhellwig said:


> Around here they still use open cell spray foam and no vapor barriers. I had my house Tyveced, new windows and siding and now my windows condensate in the winter and mold because the house is to tight.


I was thinking the same thing.

Around here the vapor barrier is just the craft paper on the fiberglass insulation, it's stapled to the face of the studs/joists. With house wrap and sealing requirements around protrusions the houses are built tight. And because houses are so tight they have to now put in vents to let outside air in so that bathroom exhaust fans don't pull the CO back down the chimney into the house. :laughing:

So I don't understand why we have to now go even further with expensive gasketed electrical boxes. I also don't understand the Canadian thing shown above with so much perfectly sealed plastic around an already air-sealed light.

I have to purposely leave windows opened in the Winter, letting in cold air, because my windows would be covered in water which would drip down to the floor because the bathroom exhaust fans couldn't get rid of the humidity because the house was so tight that it couldn't bring in any make-up air.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

In Canada we have to have a 6 inch pipe to bring in outside air. It is attached to the return air duct on FA furnaces.

When we start a bathroom exhaust fan which is larger than normal btw we also start up the furnace fan which will suck in the outside air (from the 6 inch pipe).

The big fan is actually labeled whole house ventilation or something like that. When first required it used to sit in a hallway usually. The HVAC guys complained so they let them put it in a bathroom where it always is now. One less fan I guess.

Poor mans Air Makeup I guess.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jhellwig said:


> Around here they still use open cell spray foam and no vapor barriers. I had my house Tyveced, new windows and siding and now my windows condensate in the winter and mold because the house is to tight.


Now you need an HRV. 

The low tech way to do it, if you have a fan forced furnace, is to run your summer switch occasionally in the winter to expel indoor air. That, however, brings cold air into the house. The HRV is a heat exchanger that uses the outgoing warm air to heat the incoming fresh air.

Or get a dehumidifier.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This is what it amounts to: either you build a leaky house that breathes on its own or you mechanically control incoming and outgoing air. In cold climates like Canada, airtight construction is worth it and is in the building code. In warmer climates, there's really nothing wrong with a level of air loss that would be unacceptable here. The problem is when you go half way and you're dealing with air pollutants and humidity.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> This is what it amounts to: either you build a leaky house that breathes on its own or you mechanically control incoming and outgoing air. In cold climates like Canada, airtight construction is worth it and is in the building code. In warmer climates, there's really nothing wrong with a level of air loss that would be unacceptable here. The problem is when you go half way and you're dealing with air pollutants and humidity.


I hear ya. My concern is that we are getting those laws down here. 

It's just that on the surface it seems like going after those last few percentage points is a lot of work and money, and then adds other issues which need to be resolved.

And then I wonder if it truly makes a difference or if it's more of a "feel good" type of thing.


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## WIsparky71 (Mar 7, 2015)

99cents said:


> I'm visualizing a recessed fixture completely encapsulated in spray gunk.


That's how a few of them were. We had a wago loosen up, and it was a nightmare to take the can apart from below and get to the j box. Now they usually lay a cardboard box over them and foam the crap out of that. At least you could peel it up if you had to.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Jrzy said:


> I hear ya. My concern is that we are getting those laws down here.
> 
> It's just that on the surface it seems like going after those last few percentage points is a lot of work and money, and then adds other issues which need to be resolved.
> 
> And then I wonder if it truly makes a difference or if it's more of a "feel good" type of thing.


I share your sentiments. Lack of knowledge or skepticism... But I'm not sure of the benefits yet.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Yeah the air tight thing is counter productive if you have to add another system to exchange the air to eliminate problems.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> What DOESNT cause cancer in California?


Illegal aliens and apparently 'liberals'.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Illegal aliens and apparently 'liberals'.


We actually give THEM cancer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> No doubt. How do you have access to the JB when the fixture is covered in spray foam?


A spray can of carburetor cleaner makes foam insulation disappear before your eyes, like it never existed.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Oh and there's that trick!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> We actually give THEM cancer.


I'd retrain for that career.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Jhellwig said:


> Around here they still use open cell spray foam and no vapor barriers. I had my house Tyveced, new windows and siding and now my windows condensate in the winter and mold because the house is to tight.


You're breathing too heavy. Stop it! 
P&L


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

PlugsAndLights said:


> You're breathing too heavy. Stop it!
> P&L


Stop it right meow.


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