# what you guys think of this.



## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

well, we're at it again. so I'm working at this job for a few days doing unrelated work and I see some strange panel arrangements.

new 4 story building with two electrical rooms on each floor on opposite ends .

NOTE: nothing terminated yet. wires just hanging out.

I see 3-phase panel with 125A MB and feed through lugs with 250 kcmil CU incoming from MDP and same outgoing to panel on next floor up and then same on next floor , etc . MDP to 1st flr to 2nd flr to 3rd flr and ends at 4th floor. so these rather small tubs 20" x 3?" have 8 250s. The East and West electrical rooms are separate but the same. they started terminating wires on 1st floor to feed through lugs from MDP then stopped. I started asking questions.

no one ever really looked at riser diagram or looked at what the vender/supplier submitted to supply until I started questioning it. my co-worker who had piped them and pulled the wires had been questioning it also but he was just doing his job.

long story short. so the engineer's intent was to have the incoming and outgoing 250s daisy chain feed the 125amp MB on each floor so each floor's 125-amp MB panel taps the 250-amp feeder. And the feed through lugs specified are for..? "umm, they're not needed."

how are you going to do this? Insulated wire connectors (Polaris or NSI, ETC)
so the incoming and outgoing wires go into the connectors then 3rd goes to breaker. what a mess. doesn't seem right to me. never seen anything like it

opinions?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

A picture is worth a thousand words.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

I know . I know. I'll be there Monday.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

joebanana said:


> A picture is worth a thousand words.


Not around here, a picture is worth about $5.00, $4.00 during happy hour.:drink:


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

A splitter below each panel woulda made the world of difference.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Should have been spec'ed out for riser panels. This type of application is their reason for existing, the extra space on one side of the can gives you the room for the taps so you aren't cramming them into the wireway of a standard panlboard.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

A riser panel with the 250's pulled straight through with kupl-taps would be where I'd start, unless there's a better way?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

farmantenna said:


> ...
> 
> no one ever really looked at riser diagram or looked at what the vender/supplier submitted to supply until I started questioning it.....


that's the whole problem right there.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Sound like someone was not reading the specs very carefully on that .,,


That sorta kinda remind me of old riser bussway which I ran into before at least once.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

farmantenna said:


> no one ever really looked at riser diagram or looked at what the vender/supplier submitted to supply until I started questioning it. my co-worker who had piped them and pulled the wires had been questioning it also but he was just doing his job.
> 
> opinions?






Best of luck with that one.

That type of mistake is hard to make up for easily.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

this is photo of what I've described .


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Dang, who put the cans so close together?
Do the covers fit.
Could put a large terminal block in the bottom.
But someone should figure what was intended to go there from the plans or RFI's and how connected.
May be a mistake from the design and to go further will only make it costlier.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

No insulated lug for the neutral? All the neutral current from the 2nd panel will be going through the neutral bar of the 1st panel.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

farmantenna said:


> well, we're at it again. so I'm working at this job for a few days doing unrelated work and I see some strange panel arrangements.
> 
> new 4 story building with two electrical rooms on each floor on opposite ends .
> 
> ...


To the OP...

Next time start with a one-line diagram.

Thanks.

The scheme looks like some hacked up attempt by a recent EE graduate to 'value engineer' a build.

In such a calculus, your labor and technique are not included in the equation.

Feeder wire and connectors inside the tub are abstracted down to zero cost.

( They are not on his spreadsheet. )


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> No insulated lug for the neutral? All the neutral current from the 2nd panel will be going through the neutral bar of the 1st panel.


Good call!


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Another example of "Do it correctly the first time, or struggle with a mess forever."


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

to get an idea of what's happening look my other post

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/all-done-box-moved-28-more-211146/


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

> no one ever really looked at riser diagram or looked at what the vender/supplier submitted to supply until I started questioning it. my co-worker who had piped them and pulled the wires had been questioning it also but he was just doing his job.


Who in your company missed this?

There should have been RFI's

There should have been a meeting with GC and EE

That picture of those taps are a joke. I would never put my name on it.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

You may want to keep your head up for a new employer.
At a later date you may not want to put that company one your resume.
If things keep going down hill there is a change your employer will get bounced out of there putting people out of work.


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