# California non residential receptacles



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I need to double check this stuff too... I have been too busy going around to small businesses that just did permitted work and removing those stupid controlled receptacles...

The way they are treating working spaces in this state shows zero intelligence, the whole code making panel should go for a long walk off a shot pier.....


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Controlled receptacles? splain please and thank you


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

lighterup said:


> Controlled receptacles? splain please and thank you


In offices you need a controlled receptacle within 6 feet of an uncontrolled receptacle. 

Controlled means they turn off when space is typically unoccupied. 

Usually tied into the rooms occupancy sensor for the lighting.

That's a basic explanation.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Why? If you plug your beer fridge into a controlled receptacle, that is not a good thing.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm gonna rant a bit here.

The overall goal to turn power off to save energy when it isn't needed is a good thing. At this point, implementing a system to do this takes a ton of material and energy. Everything from the gobs of extra wire, all the silly finicky devices required, all the R&D and of course the time to install it. 

I'm pretty sure to offset the cost and energy used to install a sophisticated "net zero" building means that data mining will become prevailing. The IOT future kinda freaks me out TBH.

It's gonna seem like all these sensors and devices are here to help save energy when the truth is someone just wants to monitor your behavior to figure how to squeeze the maximum profit possible out of you.

Okay, I sound crazy. Grumpy old man rant over.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

99cents said:


> Why? If you plug your beer fridge into a controlled receptacle, that is not a good thing.


Appliance specific receptacles are exempt for the most part. Even if it wasn't you just need a controlled receptacle within 6 feet of an uncontrolled one.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sounds goofy.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Arrow3030 said:


> It's gonna seem like all these sensors and devices are here to help save energy when the truth is someone just wants to monitor your behavior to figure how to squeeze the maximum profit possible out of you.
> 
> Okay, I sound crazy. Grumpy old man rant over.


Not crazy at all, that's actually much closer to the truth than you realize.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I tend to keep abreast of the general highlights of Cali's energy codes since they seem to eventually get rolled into the IECC little by little.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Arrow3030 said:


> In offices you need a controlled receptacle within 6 feet of an uncontrolled receptacle.
> 
> Controlled means they turn off when space is typically unoccupied.
> 
> ...


Is this another Title 24 debacle? Do they even consider people just plug their computers into the nearest recep. then wonder where their work went over night?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

So do you go in and short out the control device after inspection?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I would think , being from a cold climate,
that the controlled receptacle was for space heater


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I would think , being from a cold climate,
> that the controlled receptacle was for space heater


Actually, I don't see a lot of portable space heaters. Cold climate building codes have been around for so long it seems like there isn't much need for them. Home Creepo does give them shelf space, though, so somebody is using them.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

99cents said:


> So do you go in and short out the control device after inspection?


There is a lot of removal of T24 stuff going on....


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> There is a lot of removal of T24 stuff going on....


If I was there, I would advertise that. You should put it on your website.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> If I was there, I would advertise that. You should put it on your website.


I am sure the California Gestapo would quickly crack down on those types of actions....


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

All this hassle because people don't turn off the lights when they leave the room ?????


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

emtnut said:


> All this hassle because people don't turn off the lights when they leave the room ?????


Maybe in Canada people can be expected to use common sense, but here in "Merica", the government knows that common sense is unacceptable, frowned upon and just plain stupid.

You see, in their great insight they have determined that thousands and thousands of dollars of wiring and computer controlled equipment saves tons of money, vs turning off the 69 cent light switch..... 

But I digress....


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> All this hassle because people don't turn off the lights when they leave the room ?????


That's the propaganda used to sell the idea, and people will eat it up.

The actual motive is corporate profit and political corruption.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Switched said:


> Maybe in Canada people can be expected to use common sense, but here in "Merica", the government knows that common sense is unacceptable, frowned upon and just plain stupid.
> 
> You see, in their great insight they have determined that thousands and thousands of dollars of wiring and computer controlled equipment saves tons of money, vs turning off the 69 cent light switch.....
> 
> But I digress....


Common sense isn't any more common up here that down there .... Just take a look at our leader :surprise:


Nice to know that no pollution was produced while manufacturing all that extra equipment. I mean, these new LEDs .... they're gas guzzlers :vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> Maybe in Canada people can be expected to use common sense, but here in "Merica",* the government knows that common sense is unacceptable, frowned upon and just plain stupid.*
> 
> You see, in their great insight they have determined that thousands and thousands of dollars of wiring and computer controlled equipment saves tons of money, vs turning off the 69 cent light switch.....
> 
> But I digress....




That thought process seems to be uniquely grounded out in Cali!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Why? If you plug your beer fridge into a controlled receptacle, that is not a good thing.


With some wines that can be a deadly occurrence!


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> That's the propaganda used to sell the idea, and people will eat it up.
> 
> The actual motive is corporate profit and political corruption.


Well, I heard that for every 100,000 houses that have this function, 1 kid down the street can run a basement full of bitcoiners :biggrin:


So, should I buy stock in occupancy sensors ???


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That thought process seems to be uniquely grounded out in Cali!


It is quite well rooted, but not unique... It is the basic premise of all governments


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> It is quite well rooted, but not unique... It is the basic premise of all governments


Maybe my state (VA) is just behind the learning curve as I don't see many of these progressive agendas happening here anytime soon.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

MTW said:


> Arrow3030 said:
> 
> 
> > It's gonna seem like all these sensors and devices are here to help save energy when the truth is someone just wants to monitor your behavior to figure how to squeeze the maximum profit possible out of you.
> ...


I realize more than I want to admit if that makes sense. I try to keep my head in the sand a bit to keep my paranoia at bay.

When my wife was pregnant the first time about five years ago we got a target red card. I read an article that claimed that target plugs all your purchases into several algorithms and can predict if you're pregnant before you buy a pregnancy test.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

HackWork said:


> That's the propaganda used to sell the idea, and people will eat it up.
> 
> The actual motive is corporate profit and political corruption.


This is pretty spot on IMO.

The purer the intent seems, the deeper the corruption often is.

Kaiser Permanente wants me to, "Live well and thrive." The part they leave out is, "After you've been diagnosed and treated for a terminal illness we profit greatly from."

I thought I was done ranting dang it


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

Okay, one more.

The worst part of all of this to me is...

The more strict and expensive a compliant install is the more attractive a functional, safe yet noncompliant install is.

A bathroom remodel should cost about $15 for a switch and 4 light bulbs. In California a dimmer and 4 LED approved bulbs cost around $100. An uninformed customer is going to think I'm gouging when I'm actually quoting a smaller margin than the cheaper guy.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Arrow3030 said:


> Okay, one more.
> 
> The worst part of all of this to me is...
> 
> ...


He is also not going to use the tamper resistant self testing GFCI that you will. Ask me how I know :biggrin:


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

I just did a building with controlled recpts last year . They added to it this year and as we were getting the inspection I showed the inspector a little something something . Every office has a plug strip plugged in to a plug strip plugged into a plug strip . The office people did this because they hate those stupid recpts . Inspector looks at me and says title 24 is just plain stupid . It is a fire waiting to happen .


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

catsparky1 said:


> I just did a building with controlled recpts last year . They added to it this year and as we were getting the inspection I showed the inspector a little something something . Every office has a plug strip plugged in to a plug strip plugged into a plug strip . The office people did this because they hate those stupid recpts . Inspector looks at me and says title 24 is just plain stupid . It is a fire waiting to happen .


All to make sure a task light gets turned off.

I actually don't mind the resi energy code too much but the commercial end is way too ridiculous.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Arrow3030 said:


> All to make sure a task light gets turned off.
> 
> *I actually don't mind the resi energy code too much but the commercial end is way too ridiculous.*


Sure sounds like it!


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Switched said:


> Maybe in Canada people can be expected to use common sense, but here in "Merica", the government knows that common sense is unacceptable, frowned upon and just plain stupid.


exactly and any employee who shows any form of common sense is usually fired.
we all know for a fact that management personell in a factory are chose for how round their mouth is.:vs_laugh:


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