# Nothing to see here...............



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

looks good


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Another nice job, do you ever get to do a service change where the panel is _inside_ the house?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Lookin good.

Curious about the unused romexes in the bottom of the panel?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

What year was that house built?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Good looking work again.:thumbsup:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Looks great? Does that have a real old panel behind the new one, as in thats the third panel that home has had or are t hose the original homeruns?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Looks really good.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> What year was that house built?


Also, I see a bunch of MWBC's and single pole breakers.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Also, I see a bunch of MWBC's and single pole breakers.


 

maybe he's on 05'


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> maybe he's on 05'


Probably, But being that is is now 2010, I base everything on '08 unless somebody indicates they are on a different code cycle.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Probably, But being that is is now 2010, I base everything on '08 unless somebody indicates they are on a different code cycle.


 


Old habits are hard to break. We're on '05 here, so I usually have that stuck in my head. I don't even own an '08:whistling2:


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Also, I see a bunch of MWBC's and single pole breakers.


Im on the 05' book also, enlighten me what you guys are talking about?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Just got home from work (8PM). This working for a living sux.





> do you ever get to do a service change where the panel is _inside_ the house?


That's crazy. Who would put a panel inside?? :laughing:

There is an occaisional small sub inside but they are generally fed with SE cable so we just pull new circuits. On biger houses (400A) there will generally be a 200A inside.





> What year was that house built?


 
Funny story. I saked my guy who had worked there if it was an old house. I wanted to know if I needed ground rods or if there would be a ufer. He said it was an old house. I got there and found the ooriginal green tag dated 1984 :laughing:. To him, and to the inspector who was in kindergarten in 1984, it was old. To me it was new. It had a ufer BTW.




> Does that have a real old panel behind the new one, as in thats the third panel that home has had or are t hose the original homeruns


The panel I removed is the original equipment.



> Also, I see a bunch of MWBC's and single pole breakers.


Still on 05 here. AFCI's in bedrooms only, no TR receps and no two pole breakers for MWBC's.....yet.



> Im on the 05' book also, enlighten me what you guys are talking about?


In 08, multiwire branch circuits require two pole (in this case) breakers to de-energize both circuits. 

IMO it's dumb. If you don't know about MWBC's, you shouldn't be working on the electrical.


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

220/221 said:


> In 08, multiwire branch circuits require two pole (in this case) breakers to de-energize both circuits.
> 
> IMO it's dumb. If you don't know about MWBC's, you shouldn't be working on the electrical.


I just let out a little laugh, but serious? what do you do if there is only 2 spots and arent next to each other? move breakers around or run seperate neuts?

Is this a residential code or for everywhere? I dont do much resi work.

Nice work btw:thumbup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

paul_arc said:


> I just let out a little laugh, but serious? what do you do if there is only 2 spots and arent next to each other? move breakers around or run seperate neuts?
> 
> Is this a residential code or for everywhere? I dont do much resi work.
> 
> Nice work btw:thumbup:


 

It's everywhere, any MWBC needs a handle tie to keep unskilled workers safe


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

paul_arc said:


> I just let out a little laugh, but serious? what do you do if there is only 2 spots and arent next to each other? move breakers around or run seperate neuts?
> 
> Is this a residential code or for everywhere? I dont do much resi work.
> 
> Nice work btw:thumbup:



its a common disconnect at the origination point so worst case scenario you could install a 2 pole toggle by the panel


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

I don't see a problem with it myself....it helps curb the chance of having an open neutral on a MWBC, and it also keeps the panel organized....You also have to keep your MWBC grouped together in a fashion that makes it obvious for maintenance/installers to see that they are dealing with a MWBC .....Obviously these codes impact the Industrial/Commercial side of the trade mostly, but aren't a bad practice for the residential side either IMO....


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm not seeing how it could possibly curb the chance of an open neutral.

To keep the panel organized and phased properly, all you've ever had to do is install the MWBC conductors next to each other. It's a pretty standard method.

My only issue with the new code is, to label the panel the way I'd like to (as specfic as possble), I'd need to disconnect one leg instead of simply turning the breaker off/on. Then I'd have to reconnect/disconnect and do it again. I'm kind of lazy.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I am installing the exact same panel in a relocation due to a swimming pool over the weekend, their a new design and it sure is nice compared to what were used to dealing with out here in the southwest. Most of the 200amp panels out this direction are 20/40 with no room to work.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I'm not seeing how it could possibly curb the chance of an open neutral.
> 
> 
> To keep the panel organized and phased properly, all you've ever had to do is install the MWBC conductors next to each other. It's a pretty standard method.
> ...


I suppose I should have underlined "help" in my original post.....I do see this as a standard method in new construction also, but have you never come across a panel where the circuits from a MWBC are on opposite sides of the panel, and the neut is not labeled? I see this quite a bit in old work, and even at times in new work where circuits are being added/deleted from the schedules...I guess I'm just sayin that I can see the benefits of this code change and don't see it as some arbitrary waste of time...perhaps now it will certainly be a "standard method" and ten years from now it won't be an issue for anyone....but probably not...


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> I suppose I should have underlined "help" in my original post.....I do see this as a standard method in new construction also, but have you never come across a panel where the circuits from a MWBC are on opposite sides of the panel, and the neut is not labeled? I see this quite a bit in old work, and even at times in new work where circuits are being added/deleted from the schedules...I guess I'm just sayin that I can see the benefits of this code change and don't see it as some arbitrary waste of time...perhaps now it will certainly be a "standard method" and ten years from now it won't be an issue for anyone....but probably not...


 

You're right. If it's sheathed cable, it's easy to spot a MWBC and it's neutral. But. if it's in a conduit with a bunch of wires,,,,you can't tell if it's a MWBC,,,and you can't tell which neutral goes to which circuit. That is the reason for having to tie wrap wires together with their neutrals in the 08'.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I am installing the exact same panel in a relocation due to a swimming pool over the weekend, their a new design and it sure is nice compared to what were used to dealing with out here in the southwest. Most of the 200amp panels out this direction are 20/40 with no room to work.


 
If it's an overhead instalation, I'd seriously recommend using a bolt/nut to secure the service conductor lug bus bars when you flip them over. That self tapping screw they use from the factory seems really weak. Actualy, I should be pulling those screws and replacing them in the factory shipped underground position. Same screws, same poor design.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Work looks okay to me but I am concerned about you standing on the top of that ladder. Well...it's bent.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Work looks okay to me but I am concerned about you standing on the top of that ladder. Well...it's bent.


That's the type of ladder I let my wife use....:laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

220/221 said:


> If it's an overhead instalation, I'd seriously recommend using a bolt/nut to secure the service conductor lug bus bars when you flip them over. That self tapping screw they use from the factory seems really weak. Actualy, I should be pulling those screws and replacing them in the factory shipped underground position. Same screws, same poor design.



I am not sure what your speaking about, Mine was overhead where my se lug on the meter side is a small carriage bolt. I did change it from the factory underground position. I'll post pics of mine later in the week, I had to relocate all the home runs due to a pool.,


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Look on page two of this thread. There are four pics showing the process.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f9/same-old-stuff-10097/index2/


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## M22 (Jul 31, 2010)

Just curious, was patching and painting in your quote?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Looks good!:thumbsup:


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