# Non-Union/Non-ABC Apprenticeship



## Ratboy (Nov 18, 2017)

Hey everyone! I've been reading this forum for the past few months and finally registered. I've been looking into becoming an electrician over the past few months.

I worked for an appliance company as an installer, installing/uninstalling dishwashers, over the range microwaves, refrigerators, garbage disposals, etc. I'm strong, comfortable working in heat/cold/rain/snow etc. , I'm used to working hard, working overtime (I usually averaged 50 hours a week), and dealing with customers in a household. I liked my job, but I felt like there was no room to grow and I wanted to to take on something that I would like, but something that would be a useful skill that was in need, so that I would never have to worry about not having a job. I stress about A LOT of ****, and being 24, not in college and knowing what I'm doing is one of them.

*I never attempted applying for the union or ABC *. Don't know why. I'm not opposed to the union. I just felt like that at 24, without any college background and only a couple jobs under my belt, I needed to work and learn as soon as I could find a job.

After a bit of job hunting, both online, calling places, going into places in person, etc. I finally got a job opportunity at a non-union shop. I'm all for working for them and I'm beyond excited. They do automation, house rewiring, commercial/residential work, new construction, generators, security, fire, sound systems, phone/cable wiring, etc. and I'm really confident that they will be excellent teachers and that I will work in a good environment with a lot of variety. Everyone I have met was incredibly nice, professional, I have seen their vans around long before I even thought about doing this work, and everything seems really great about this place so far. I'm just a little nervous.

Should I be worried about not joining the IBEW or the ABC and putting my time into a smaller business? What are things I can expect by taking this route?

Once again, long time reader, feel free to give me all the roasting a millennial breaking into this career needs :thumbsup:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dude, I am non union and non abc. I have trained 5 or 10 of the best electricians I have ever know.
Is the union apprenticeship the best? probably but is it the only way to go? No not in my area. 
Do what is best for you. If you ever want to go out on your own, stick with non union, if you want to retire early and **** off your whole career go with the union.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

I've never been union so i can only speak to non union. Working with a small company is a great benefit to hands on experience.
Yes, the union is likely the best in training apprentices, but you will learn so much so fast with a small non union company I believe the experience pays off.
Most owners will base thier pay on hands on experience over knowledge of code and electrical theory.
Dont get me wrong, its great to know and is a benefit for you, but the experience you get from a small company is hard to beat.
What matter most to non union contractors is getting the job done correctly with no f ck ups. So you will see more and do more much quicker this route than with a union.


Texting and Driving


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Welcome to ET Ratboy

there's a lot to be gained here

but you do know you'll need to be schooling soon

i'm unsure if coins is still down there, you might want to check 'em out

~CS~


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## Ratboy (Nov 18, 2017)

I'll be taking Code classes at the vocational high school in my town. Does that count as class time?


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

Hello Ratboy from Massachusetts

I have worked in both union and non-union.

sbrn33 and trentonmakes are correct about variety of work and on the job experience when working with a small non-union company.

chicken steve is also correct concerning schooling.

The following link has information concerning Electrician Licensing for Massachusetts (Check pages 7 and 8) (PDF file):

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/docs/dpl/boards/el/el-cib.pdf

Study hard and good luck


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Having worked union and non-union all stated above is true and there are some excellent open shops but as far as unions go.

1. Great pay
2. Great benefits
3. Durn good retirement
4. if you get laid off you pay scale remains the same from company to company.
5. Your retirement is with the union not a company so it stays with you as you move around (If you move around).
6. The quality of the apprenticeship varies from local to local based on who is teaching the courses, this holds true for ABC as well. 
7. Most locals transfers apprentices around either every 6 months or yearly to get you a variety of training.
8. If you work ABC I recommend leaving a company after 12-18 months to get a variety of work (if a variety is available from other contractors).

Residential is a great place to start but do not stay there your whole apprenticeship.


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## Ratboy (Nov 18, 2017)

Just got back from my second day of work. I feel like I've made the right choice. All the guy's seem pretty happy here. Everyone likes the company, they like the variety the company does, and everything just seems very reassuring that I'm making a smart move getting into a trade. It's one thing for me to start a brand new job and be very happy that I'm there. It's another thing if the guys who have been doing this kind of work for several years, had experience in the union, and have been working for my boss for a few more years, are happy. I just feel that I don't have to stress anymore. I feel like I have a career and that I don't have to worry about "what I'm doing" with my life. 

Nonetheless, I'm still a very inexperienced apprentice. My boss/the master electrician is nice and very understanding/helpful to everyone , but I can tell that he is 110% all business, all the time. He knows I'm brand new, but of course he wants to see me impress him and figure things out on my own (which I am, the more and more I work). I'm trying to see if I can stay one step ahead and prevent him from thinking that I'm just like any other lazy kid who wants to be on his phone the whole time at work (and yes, since day one I left my phone in the truck) . I've been cleaning in any downtime I had on the job, I spent A LOT of money on tools after only my first few days, and I make sure I ask questions even though I probably annoy the piss out of some guys. But what are some tips on how to stick out from other apprentices and be the best that I can be?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Stop chewing the drywall, ratboy


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## Rique Escamilla (Oct 28, 2017)

I'm in the same exact situation as you ratboy, however I went back to college to make more money eventually, I was working at a non union shop for a year doing commercial but only making $18, but now I'm trying to get my AS degree in electrical engineering at the same time i put in my applications for the IBEW and ABC , and while I go to school and still get hands on experience and education I can just wait for that call from the union and when I get that interview with the union I can show them how far I got in my classes and thats going to help my situation, but to each is own dude.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Ratboy said:


> Just got back from my second day of work. I feel like I've made the right choice. All the guy's seem pretty happy here. Everyone likes the company, they like the variety the company does, and everything just seems very reassuring that I'm making a smart move getting into a trade. It's one thing for me to start a brand new job and be very happy that I'm there. It's another thing if the guys who have been doing this kind of work for several years, had experience in the union, and have been working for my boss for a few more years, are happy. I just feel that I don't have to stress anymore. I feel like I have a career and that I don't have to worry about "what I'm doing" with my life.
> 
> Nonetheless, I'm still a very inexperienced apprentice. My boss/the master electrician is nice and very understanding/helpful to everyone , but I can tell that he is 110% all business, all the time. He knows I'm brand new, but of course he wants to see me impress him and figure things out on my own (which I am, the more and more I work). I'm trying to see if I can stay one step ahead and prevent him from thinking that I'm just like any other lazy kid who wants to be on his phone the whole time at work (and yes, since day one I left my phone in the truck) . I've been cleaning in any downtime I had on the job, I spent A LOT of money on tools after only my first few days, and I make sure I ask questions even though I probably annoy the piss out of some guys. But what are some tips on how to stick out from other apprentices and be the best that I can be?


Do what your journeymen say, promptly. If you don't think they're right about something code wise, keep it to yourself and look it up on your own time. Even if you're right, give it a few years before you start trying to correct your superiors, they get paid to know these things, and they get paid to be responsible for the mistakes.

Embrace the lube.

Buy a small adjustable square and cut your strut straight, especially if it's exposed work.

Do it nice, or do it twice.

Volunteer for the harder jobs.

Don't f*ck with 277/480.


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## Ratboy (Nov 18, 2017)

TGGT said:


> Do what your journeymen say, promptly. If you don't think they're right about something code wise, keep it to yourself and look it up on your own time. Even if you're right, give it a few years before you start trying to correct your superiors, they get paid to know these things, and they get paid to be responsible for the mistakes.
> 
> Embrace the lube.
> 
> ...


Embrace the lube? 

I don't know if it's just because we do a lot of residential, but my boss puts *a lot *of emphasis on neat work. Wire's lying smooth, not bunched, stapled in reasonable spacing apart, etc. If anything I feel that it'll form good habits.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

TGGT said:


> Do what your journeymen say, promptly. If you don't think they're right about something code wise, keep it to yourself and look it up on your own time. Even if you're right, give it a few years before you start trying to correct your superiors, they get paid to know these things, and they get paid to be responsible for the mistakes.
> 
> Embrace the lube.
> 
> ...


Ratboy, sounds like you do have a very good and understanding Master Electrician.

I am sure that if you notice something that is not according to code which could be detrimental to your bosses business, he/she would be appreciative if you pointed it out with the appropriate proof.

If you are correct your boss will likely respect you more and possibly give you more freedom and responsibility.

If you have mis-interpreted the code or method, your boss will likely explain why you are wrong. This way you will learn faster.

I have worked with people like your boss and also like TGGT seems to be.

The people who had the attitude like TGGT (foreman/sub-foreman) were occasionally promoted to get them away from the trade/tools but more often sent to some remote site without demotion but also did not have anyone working under/with them.

It is a sad place to work if you cannot point out errors to someone with more knowledge/experience than yourself.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

PokeySmokey said:


> Ratboy, sounds like you do have a very good and understanding Master Electrician.
> 
> I am sure that if you notice something that is not according to code which could be detrimental to your bosses business, he/she would be appreciative if you pointed it out with the appropriate proof.
> 
> ...


I've seen apprentices sent away or shunned because they were difficult to work with. He should just exercise caution, especially as a 1st year and new to the company.


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