# local 3 starting apprentice wages are a joke!



## emahler

Entitled much?

Why is it their responsibility to make sure you can afford to pay for the decisions and choices you made?

5 years experience? Sit for your license and earn unlimited income as your own boss?


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## MechanicalDVR

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.
> 
> They don't Budge either. I would've loved to jointhe union but I must decline because I
> Can't afford to live for 3 years gettin paid less than 16-17 dollars an hour... I took and passed the test for MTA and Metro North and they start me at 22
> because I have l over 4 years on the books experience. 11 dollars an hour... I still can't believe that.


 
And what are inside wiremen making at Jman rate right now?


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## Sparky3

The first couple of years suck but its called paying your dues. After 5 years you will have a college degree and prob will be makin around 50 per hr with some good benefits and a pension.


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## MechanicalDVR

Sparky3 said:


> The first couple of years suck but its called paying your dues. After 5 years you will have a college degree and prob will be makin around 50 per hr with some good benefits and a pension.


 
Everyone just wants to start at the top nowadays. It's that instant gratification syndrome I guess.


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## JayWater

Sparky3 said:


> The first couple of years suck but its called paying your dues. After 5 years you will have a college degree and prob will be makin around 50 per hr with some good benefits and a pension.


50 dollars an hour while your working which seems hard for union guys nowadays... Ky friend has worked 6-8 months in past 3 years...

The point is I can't pay my rent making 11 dollars an hour... Paying rent isn't choosing a way to live your life.. paying rent is a neccesity


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## HARRY304E

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.
> 
> They don't Budge either. I would've loved to jointhe union but I must decline because I
> Can't afford to live for 3 years gettin paid less than 16-17 dollars an hour... I took and passed the test for MTA and Metro North and they start me at 22
> because I have l over 4 years on the books experience. 11 dollars an hour... I still can't believe that.


There is no question that stinks.

But you may not realize how much you cost the Employer just to hire you.

The Employer has to pay for Insurance on your behalf .

Workman's comp the cost of that depends on what you make per hour after taxes.

Same with liability insurance the cost goes up the more you are payed.

Then you have state unemployment insurance.

Then you have federal unemployment insurance. 

Then health insurance.

Then the state tax code

then the IRS tax code

I'm sure the list is even longer and more expensive but it is hopeless anyway

All that crap serves as a back door"wage control"sceem.


after all the costs it takes just to hire some one it is amazing there is any money left at all.

Look at the bright side that $11 per hour is Taxable Income, It really is just wonderful right?.:no::blink:


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## masshysteria

Take the test and join the M division as a MJ. I think it starts out at 26. The problem is you have to stay at that rate for 6 years now. It used to be 4. Just another option.


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## brian john

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.


That the local does not count your open shop time is BS, but pretty standard.


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## Bkessler

Move back into your moms basement.


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## Big John

OPs personal costs aside, 11 dollars an hour is a damn low wage considering the cost of living in NYC, I'm pretty surprised the union starts apprentices off that low, unless it advances very quickly.

-John


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## BBQ

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.
> 
> They don't Budge either. I would've loved to jointhe union but I must decline because I
> Can't afford to live for 3 years gettin paid less than 16-17 dollars an hour... I took and passed the test for MTA and Metro North and they start me at 22
> because I have l over 4 years on the books experience. 11 dollars an hour... I still can't believe that.


Yeah, when I was an apprentice the pay was low. I maned up and got a second job until I could earn enough with one job. 

Suck it up, others have made it, if you can't make it look in the mirror for the person to blame.


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## 360max

Prevailing Wage Rate View PDF · Overtime Codes · Holiday Codes · Search Again


JOB DESCRIPTION 
Electrician	
DISTRICT 
9
ENTIRE COUNTIES
Bronx, Kings, New York, Queens, Richmond
*WAGES*
Per Hour:
07/01/2011 11/09/2011 01/01/2012 05/09/2012 
*Electrician	$49.00 $51.00 $51.00 $51.00* 
Audio/Sound	49.00 51.00 51.00 51.00 

*SUPPLEMENTAL BENEFITS*
Per Hour:
*Journey Worker	$40.16 $41.31 $42.33 $43.46 *

OVERTIME PAY
See (A, H) on OVERTIME PAGE
HOLIDAY
Paid:	See (1) on HOLIDAY PAGE
Overtime:	See (5, 6, 11, 15, 16) on HOLIDAY PAGE
REGISTERED APPRENTICES
*Wages Per Hour:
Apprentices registered*
before 05/10/2007
One (1) year terms.

07/01/2011 11/09/2011 01/01/2012 05/09/2012 
*1st term...	$14.25 $14.25 $14.25 $14.25	* 
2nd term...	$17.05 $17.05 $17.05 $17.05 
3rd term..	$19.15 $19.15 $19.15 $19.15 
4th term...	$21.10 $21.10 $21.10 $21.10 
MIJ (5th term)	$25.30 $25.30 $25.30 $25.30 

*Apprentices registered*
after 05/10/2007
One (1) year terms

1st term...	$11.50 $11.50 $11.50 $11.50 
2nd term...	$13.50 $13.50 $13.50 $13.50 
3rd term...	$15.50 $15.50 $15.50 $15.50 
4th term...	$17.50 $17.50 $17.50 $17.50 
MIJ (5th term)	$21.50 $21.50 $21.50 $21.50 

Supplemental Benefits:
Per Hour for Apprentices
registered before 05/10/2007 
*1st term....	$10.19 $10.19 $10.51 $11.51	* 
2nd term...	$11.54 $11.54 $11.93 $12.93 
3rd term...	$12.55 $12.55 $13.00 $14.00 
4th term...	$13.50 $13.50 $13.98 $14.98 
MIJ (5th term)	$16.26 $16.26 $16.77 $18.02 

Suppemental Benefits:
Per hour for Apprentices
registered after 05/10/2007

*1st term...	$ 8.86 $ 8.86 $ 9.12 $10.12* 
2nd term...	$ 9.82 $ 9.82 $10.13 $11.13 
3rd term...	$10.79 $10.79 $11.15 $12.15 
4th term...	$11.76 $11.76 $12.16 $13.16 
MIJ (5th term)	$14.50 $14.50 $14.92 $16.14 

9-3


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## knowshorts

JayWater said:


> Paying rent isn't choosing a way to live your life.. paying rent is a neccesity





JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family


I believe emahler was referring to the fact that you made the mistake of creating a family prior to creating a career.


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## electricmanscott

BBQ said:


> Yeah, when I was an apprentice the pay was low. I maned up and got a second job until I could earn enough with one job.
> 
> Suck it up, others have made it, if you can't make it look in the mirror for the person to blame.



If he can make it there he'll make it anywhere. :laughing:


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## BBQ

electricmanscott said:


> If he can make it there he'll make it anywhere. :laughing:



Do you remember the WAAF version of Frank Sinatra's 'New York'? 


:laughing:


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## jredwood301

if you dont like it then dont join!!!!!!!!!! i made the sacrifice and everyone else that went through the apprenticeship also made it. low pay+**** jobs+5 years= the right to complain:thumbsup:


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## chadw

I just started in lincoln, ne with the jatc. Yeah, the pay is super low, but the non-union contractors here don't want to train newbies, and they pay them far worse. Their journeymen average $15 too. I get 12.37 and take home 400 week....It will be worth it, cant wait for the raise next oct!


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## Acadian9

brian john said:


> That the local does not count your open shop time is BS, but pretty standard.


One of my friends from tradeschool spent 4 years or so working non-union then joined my local. He got his hours credited and a nice $8/hour raise.

On the other hand, another apprentice I've worked with was 3rd year non-union, joined my local and worked as a pre-apprentice for 1800 hours then jumped to 2nd term.


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## RIVETER

emahler said:


> Entitled much?
> 
> Why is it their responsibility to make sure you can afford to pay for the decisions and choices you made?
> 
> 5 years experience? Sit for your license and earn unlimited income as your own boss?


I kind of agree with "this answer". Everyone would like a job that will satisfy their current situation. Life is full of choices. I suppose that a person would have to get by on less or do something that would make them more employable, or change careers.


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## sparky970

By not taking advantage of an apprenticeship, where do you see yourself in 5yrs? Will have have a better education, higher paying job, more advancement opportunities? I took a $5hr cut when I started, it was worth it. I also left construction for 4yrs and took a temporary $9hr cut, the maintenance and troubleshooting experience was invaluable. Now, I'm back in construction and feel I'm in a better position than I would have been if I had not made the sacrifices. Think about your future.


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## captkirk

Name one field where you start out making big bucks..?FWIW I was making 10 bucks an hour when i started. Moonlighted on the side to make more cash...


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## Wireman191

If you have that much experience why don't you take the state test and just organize in?


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## Acadian9

I work with this one guy (40 something years old, wife, 2 kids, mortgage, etc.) who started an apprenticeship when I did about 4.5 years ago. He's had many jobs which paid the bills but they lacked the benefits the union provides. He made $11.83/hour when he started and slowly made more every term, going to school on $400/week. He told me how hard it was to make ends meet but now, being a 5th year only months away from being licensed, he says that starting an apprenticeship was the best decision he's made.

I was lucky that I started just weeks after him (when I was 18 and just out of high school) and am 2 months away from getting my license. He took a major pay cut for the future. If he can do it, so can anyone.


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## chadw

Obviously apprentices are treated like crap in all ways...goes right in hand with ibew's goal of organizing all electrical workers!


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## Zog

$11/hr sucks anywhere let alone NYC.


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## chadw

And as a side note, you have to pay for books and tuition, so on that wage somehow cough up almost $750 for the first semester and $300 next semester, nice, no student loans or grants available, obviously a lot of smart people run away from the field and the stubborn stay, (me included)


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## uconduit

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.
> 
> They don't Budge either. I would've loved to jointhe union but I must decline because I
> Can't afford to live for 3 years gettin paid less than 16-17 dollars an hour... I took and passed the test for MTA and Metro North and they start me at 22
> because I have l over 4 years on the books experience. 11 dollars an hour... I still can't believe that.


Sounds like 3 lost out on having an outstanding electrician work in their local.:whistling2:


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## FastFokker

Hold on, do I even understand this correctly?

You are a journeyman electrician with 5 years of experience (so fresh ticket I guess?), and if you join the union they want to start you at their lowest wage of $11/hr?


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## chicken steve

perhaps they've instituted a meritocracy....? :whistling2:~CS~


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## BBQ

Zombie thread, the OP is not around


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## Southeast Power

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent with 5 years electrical experience an afford to live getting paid 11 dollars an hour... Especially on a 35 hour work week..its comical ,especially living in nyc.
> 
> They don't Budge either. I would've loved to jointhe union but I must decline because I
> Can't afford to live for 3 years gettin paid less than 16-17 dollars an hour... I took and passed the test for MTA and Metro North and they start me at 22
> because I have l over 4 years on the books experience. 11 dollars an hour... I still can't believe that.


Its to cull out crybabies just like you.
We all had to live lean as apprentices, it good for you. Maybe you should just stick to that $22 and see how that long term investment works out for you.:blink:


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## Tonedeaf

Really....there's a line to be in your position.....don't blow the oportunity.


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## 480sparky

JayWater said:


> How does the local expect a man in his early to mid 20s , trying to raise a family and pay 1000 dollars rent .......


So does any of that make you more valuable than someone with 5 years experience who makes better financial decisions about his person life? Like keeping his wick dry and finding a smaller place to live?


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## al13nw4r3LC76

Really local 3 was like the strongest local i thought what's the jw rate there?


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## icefalkon

This is an old thread...

We are one of the strongest locals and our JW rate is $51/hr in the pocket with a total package of approximately $103/hr for a total of $3500/wk. This guy...while typical of many these days...has "entitalitis". 

Union or non union...we ALL paid our respective dues coming up in the trade...and he was obviously judged as an Apprentice when his shop was organized otherwise he would have known PRIOR to his filling out the Application and going through the one year long process what the going rate was. 

Oh well...

Happy New Year everyone!


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## Speedy Petey

chadw said:


> Obviously apprentices are treated like crap in all ways...goes right in hand with ibew's goal of organizing all electrical workers!


Really constructive way to resurrect a year old thread with an absent OP.


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