# 10-2, 12-2, 14-2 etc?



## LanceBass

Can someone explain the difference between these types of wires. The way I understand it is - for instance - 12/2 has two conductor wires plus a ground wire - is this correct?

Also the gauges 10, 12, 14...what does this mean? I have no clue.


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## Focker

LanceBass said:


> Can someone explain the difference between these types of wires. The way I understand it is - for instance - 12/2 has two conductor wires plus a ground wire - is this correct?
> 
> Also the gauges 10, 12, 14...what does this mean? I have no clue.


Goggle :blink:


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## Dennis Alwon

LanceBass said:


> Can someone explain the difference between these types of wires. The way I understand it is - for instance - 12/2 has two conductor wires plus a ground wire - is this correct?
> 
> Also the gauges 10, 12, 14...what does this mean? I have no clue.


10.12 AND 14 ARE awg-- AMERICAN WIRE GAUGE

10 is larger than 12 which is larger than 14. Backwards from what you would think. Each size has an ampacity that the conductor can handle depending on the insulation that is around the wire.

For instance a #10 wire is rated, generally 30 amps while a #12 is 20 amps and 14 is 15 amps.

You are correct that a 12/2 means 2 #12 wires with a bare wire all #12AWG


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## Dennis Alwon

Focker said:


> Goggle :blink:


So why are we here if google is the answer.:no:


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## MattHelm

The wikipedia article on AWG would help you quite a bit and save a lot of typing.

The short version: Gauge is inversely proportional to diameter. The baseline for the modern AWG is of somewhat arbitrary origin (as opposed to shotgun gauge which was based on the number of lead balls in a pound).

The smaller the gauge, the larger the diameter.


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## LanceBass

Focker said:


> Goggle :blink:


Yep, and it brought me to an electricians forum where people ask questions you ****ing derp...


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## AlbertaBeef

LanceBass said:


> Yep, and it brought me to an electricians forum where people ask questions you ****ing derp...


That isn't going to win you friends or respect, take the high road.


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## Meadow

LanceBass said:


> Yep, and it brought me to an electricians forum where people ask questions you ****ing derp...


 
South park fan?


Anyways, the first number is the wire size, the next number is the number of current carrying conductors. The ground wire is not included in the description as is used only for emergencies. 12-2 is 2 12 gauge wires in a cable. 14-3 is 3 14 gauge wires in a cable plus a bare ground. Like above bare ground is not counted. Older romex did not have a ground, but all newer versions today do


This might help, its the romex available that you can buy, theres a chart at the bottom that really helps. It has the number of conductors available and the ampacities a certain gauge can handle:

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet6


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## 480sparky

meadow said:


> ..... Older romex did not have a ground, but all newer versions today do........


Incorrect. You can still buy NM without a ground.


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## 99cents

Dennis Alwon said:


> So why are we here if google is the answer.:no:


Are we here to answer the most elementary questions that should be answered by the time an apprentice finishes his first week on the job? I agree, Google it.

How could a senior member not know what 14/2 cable is?


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## drspec

I thought the OP already knew everything there was to know about the trade


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## big2bird

LanceBass said:


> Yep, and it brought me to an electricians forum where people ask questions you ****ing derp...


Free advice. If you treat your co workers like that, you have a LONG road ahead.


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## Meadow

480sparky said:


> Incorrect. You can still buy NM without a ground.


 
:001_huh:Where? I haven't been able to purchase n-mb without ground since 2006, and I cant think of a time since the post 1997 code where I ever need it.


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## JRaef

480sparky said:


> Incorrect. You can still buy NM without a ground.


Damn, beat me to it.

"12-2 W/G" is 2 #12 wires with a bare ground conductor. If it does not say "W/G" (*W*ith *G*round), it will be just 2 conductors.


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## 480sparky

meadow said:


> :001_huh:Where? I haven't been able to purchase n-mb without ground since 2006, and I cant think of a time since the post 1997 code where I ever need it.



Every central-vac install I've run across has 12/2 with no ground in it. It's got the yellow sheath, so it's not like they're using 15-year-old stock.


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## Meadow

480sparky said:


> Every central-vac install I've run across has 12/2 with no ground in it. It's got the yellow sheath, so it's not like they're using 15-year-old stock.


 
Supply houses in the area no longer stocks it nor orders it. Im not sure if its true or not but since 2006 I was told nm-b without ground has gone out of production. (Came up after I was trying to extended a dryer circuit that couldn't be re-run)

I have never run nm-b without ground to a central vac in that there are models out there that require it even if a few makes don't.


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## LanceBass

meadow said:


> South park fan?
> 
> 
> Anyways, the first number is the wire size, the next number is the number of current carrying conductors. The ground wire is not included in the description as is used only for emergencies. 12-2 is 2 12 gauge wires in a cable. 14-3 is 3 14 gauge wires in a cable plus a bare ground. Like above bare ground is not counted. Older romex did not have a ground, but all newer versions today do
> 
> 
> This might help, its the romex available that you can buy, theres a chart at the bottom that really helps. It has the number of conductors available and the ampacities a certain gauge can handle:
> 
> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet6


Thanks...this information on the link was very helpful. Like I said, they don't teach me anything at work so I'm trying to be proactive.

If anyone has a problem with that - suck my ****!


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## 480sparky

meadow said:


> Supply houses in the area no longer stocks it nor orders it. Im not sure if its true or not but since 2006 I was told nm-b without ground has gone out of production. (Came up after I was trying to extended a dryer circuit that couldn't be re-run)
> 
> I have never run nm-b without ground to a central vac in that there are models out there that require it even if a few makes don't.



I'm not talking about the branch circuit wiring to the cannister. I'm referring to the whip that the c-vac outlets come wired with. The installer usually puts one near an electrical box and leaves it to us electricians to fire it up. Unfortunately, they usually manage to find a dead-end 3-way or a SABC/bath circuit.


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## Meadow

480sparky said:


> I'm not talking about the branch circuit wiring to the cannister. I'm referring to the whip that the c-vac outlets come wired with. The installer usually puts one near an electrical box and leaves it to us electricians to fire it up. Unfortunately, they usually manage to find a dead-end 3-way or a SABC/bath circuit.


I was referring to the romex, I cant find any made after 2006 that does not have a ground, at least from experience.


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## Meadow

LanceBass said:


> Thanks...this information on the link was very helpful. Like I said, they don't teach me anything at work so I'm trying to be proactive.
> 
> If anyone has a problem with that - suck my ****!


 
Don't be afraid to ask if your work place isn't teaching. Its there obligation, but if they fall short ask what you need here:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky

meadow said:


> I was referring to the romex, I cant find any made after 2006 that does not have a ground, at least from experience.



So was I. The whips are usually 12-2, no ground. Yellow sheath. They're obviously buying it _somewhere_.


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## Shane B

LanceBass said:


> Can someone explain the difference between these types of wires. The way I understand it is - for instance - 12/2 has two conductor wires plus a ground wire - is this correct?
> 
> Also the gauges 10, 12, 14...what does this mean? I have no clue.


That's correct, there is an exception with SO Cord, they include the ground with the conductors. For instance a 12/3 SO cord is two current carrying conductors with a ground


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## Meadow

480sparky said:


> So was I. The whips are usually 12-2, no ground. Yellow sheath. They're obviously buying it _somewhere_.


 

Are you sure it not SOOJ? Left over rolls? Im sure it could still be made somewhere since its not to the NEC code, but unless the supply house guys are pulling my leg romex without ground is no longer sold or made for branch circuits.


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## 480sparky

meadow said:


> Are you sure it not SOOJ? Left over rolls? Im sure it could still be made somewhere since its not to the NEC code, but unless the supply house guys are pulling my leg romex without ground is no longer sold or made for branch circuits.



It in 12-2 NM. Without ground. Hooked up hundreds of 'em over the years. The supply house may not carry it because WE can't use it. But it CAN be used to make whips for c-vac inlets.


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## eejack

LanceBass said:


> Can someone explain the difference between these types of wires. The way I understand it is - for instance - 12/2 has two conductor wires plus a ground wire - is this correct?
> 
> Also the gauges 10, 12, 14...what does this mean? I have no clue.


Gauge/Number of Conductors.

There are lots of types of cables - and knowing the cable styles is another topic entirely.

12/2 for instance means 2 conductors of 12 gauge wire. Typically if you talking about romex, that means black/white and a ground. If you are talking about bx - it just means a black and a white ( the cable jacket is the ground ) but 12/2 MC is typically black/white/green. 12/2 SO cord would be black/white but 12/2 speaker wire would be two 12 gauge in what appears to be something you use on a table lamp.


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## backstay

I believe gauges were started as a function of the manufacturing process. 1 gauge was drawn through the #1 gauge then to make it smaller the wire was drawn through next gauge which was # 2.


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## Dennis Alwon

Walk into a supply house and ask for 12/2 nm. What will you get? It is common nomenclature that 12/2 means 12/2 with ground in spite of the fact that 12/2 without ground exists. I bet 12/2 w/o ground is a special order made mostly for central vac companies.


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## AlbertaBeef

I would highly doubt that it is rated for anything else.


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## erics37

LanceBass said:


> Yep, and it brought me to an electricians forum where people ask questions you ****ing derp...





AlbertaBeef said:


> That isn't going to win you friends or respect, take the high road.


On the contrary, I think it's awesome you ****ing derp :laughing::thumbup:


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## Michigan Master

LanceBass said:


> Thanks...this information on the link was very helpful. Like I said, they don't teach me anything at work so I'm trying to be proactive.


If looking for some educational material, you'll find this site helpful. I'm sure going through some of these volumes, worksheets and videos will help better prepare you for classes this Fall, and may help you with understanding some stuff at work.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ :smartass:


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## 3xdad




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## Ultrafault

I think its funny you are a big enough man to cuss at people who cant find you. Why dont you grow a pair in real life and demand knowledge from the people you work with. Try talking to them that way and see how far it gets you. Dont act like such an entitled princess sometimes you have to take the sacrasm with the anwsers.


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## DesignerMan

Ultrafault said:


> sometimes you have to take the sacrasm with the anwsers.


So true! If I got PO'd every time I asked a question and got a sarcastic response over the years I'd still be an apprentice trying to figure out the basics.
It's part of the learning process in the trades it seems.
Kinda helps it stick in your head. :thumbsup:


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## LanceBass

Ultrafault said:


> I think its funny you are a big enough man to cuss at people who cant find you. Why dont you grow a pair in real life and demand knowledge from the people you work with. Try talking to them that way and see how far it gets you. Dont act like such an entitled princess sometimes you have to take the sacrasm with the anwsers.


I don't think demanding things at work is a good idea if you're new. You wanna find me - I can PM you my address if it's that serious


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## Ultrafault

When or why did I imply I wanted to meet you? Im confused. Im way to old to prentend traipsing across the country for a kid is something I would consider. Just chill out maybe some knoldge will come your way then.


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## jw0445

480sparky said:


> Every central-vac install I've run across has 12/2 with no ground in it. It's got the yellow sheath, so it's not like they're using 15-year-old stock.


 
Maybe 15 year old stock made the white sheath turn yellow, just a thought.


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## LanceBass

Ultrafault said:


> When or why did I imply I wanted to meet you? Im confused. Im way to old to prentend traipsing across the country for a kid is something I would consider. Just chill out maybe some knoldge will come your way then.


In other words, you're scared. Go apply some Monistat 7 to your inflamed areas pusscake.


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## Ultrafault

I thought you were trying to lure me over for one of those freaky internet sex things.


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## 480sparky

jw0445 said:


> Maybe 15 year old stock made the white sheath turn yellow, just a thought.



Nope. This is obviously new stuff.


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## eejack

jw0445 said:


> Maybe 15 year old stock made the white sheath turn yellow, just a thought.





LanceBass said:


> In other words, you're scared. Go apply some Monistat 7 to your inflamed areas pusscake.





Ultrafault said:


> I thought you were trying to lure me over for one of those freaky internet sex things.





480sparky said:


> Nope. This is obviously new stuff.


Somehow I read all those things together and after working in the sun all day it made some sort of bizarre sense. Obviously dehydration has an effect on brain functions.


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