# Is it worth getting solar panels installed ?



## Pattester (Mar 8, 2012)

Obviously there seems to be a high subsidy at the moment, but lets face it the Uk is not very sunny.
Also how long are the panels likely to last before they deteriorate or pack in and you have to re invest ?


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

No it isn't.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Solar panels today have a way longer life than in the past. there is probably a web site that you can see how many solar hours a day on average you can get in your region. you have to think of renewable systems as a way of pre-buying energy at todays rate with the assumption that energy rates are going to go up. PV is great as long as your area gives good rebates for the install. if you have to pay out of pocket for the whole thing that can be expensive. That said if you have the money and want to be green then go for it.


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## Pattester (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks, I didn't really think it was worthwhile, but they are being pushed a lot in the Uk.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

The way I loom at it is you can't produce oil at home but you can produce electricity. Again though is it going to be productive in your region.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Solar panels last for 50 plus years. They are rated to produce 80% of their rated output at 25 years. I have 18 year old panels that are at the same output as the first day. 

The two big failures are heat(not an issue in England) and bullet holes(probably not an issue in England)


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Bullet holes!!:001_huh: Thats funny, I installed a roof intergrated (the PV is the roof overlay) PV system about 4 years ago in northern New Hampshire and the six miles down the road to the house every road sign had bullet holes in them. The whole time I was doing the job I thought there is no way this system isn't gonna get shot at. Well I was wrong, to this day not one shot at the roof:thumbsup:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TimChaput69 said:


> Bullet holes!!:001_huh: Thats funny, I installed a roof intergrated (the PV is the roof overlay) PV system about 4 years ago in northern New Hampshire and the six miles down the road to the house every road sign had bullet holes in them. The whole time I was doing the job I thought there is no way this system isn't gonna get shot at. Well I was wrong, to this day not one shot at the roof:thumbsup:


Most systems were remote to start with, which is why they get shot up. The heat issue is with the internal connections in the panel. Think how hot a dark blue panel sitting in the New Mexico desert gets. 

It's amazing how much more my panels produce when it's really cold, below -20 F they are just cooking.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

125% for the cold. Panels crank in the cold. Used to get calls all the time in the summer after a good cold thunderstorm. Panels go from hot to cold in the span of about 5 mins and blow all the fuses in either the combiner box or at the inverters.


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## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

There is no payback when you count the opportunity cost of the money.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Again when you install renewable systems you are pre-buying energy at todays rates hedging that energy costs are gonna go up. Any one that thinks fossile fuels are gonna ever get cheaper is high. Its a finite resource and one day will run out so its a pretty safe bet. I love my F350 but I can see the writing on the wall! The longer we wait to do something the harder its gonna be to change. One really good thought though is when oil does run out we no longer have to deal with the cavemen in the middle east! Just think what their world will be like when oil is gone!!!!!


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

The little saving in the future isn't worth the upfront cost


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

For the individual person that can get someone else to pay for much of the upfront costs it can definitely be worth it.

For society as a whole I am not so convinced it is yet worth it.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*NO zone*

NO. I think if you give up 1 starbuck cappe frachino per day you would offset approx. the same amount of money


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TimChaput69 said:


> Again when you install renewable systems you are pre-buying energy at todays rates hedging that energy costs are gonna go up. Any one that thinks fossile fuels are gonna ever get cheaper is high. Its a finite resource and one day will run out so its a pretty safe bet. I love my F350 but I can see the writing on the wall! The longer we wait to do something the harder its gonna be to change. One really good thought though is when oil does run out we no longer have to deal with the cavemen in the middle east! Just think what their world will be like when oil is gone!!!!!


I don't think oil will ever be "gone" just more and more scarce. Prices will rise and other energy will become competitive. Magnetic field power will someday rule. Unlike the sun which is weather and time dependent, the earths magnetic field is always on.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

I stand corrected, oil will never be gone. Just as soon as its not profitable the oil companies (all the one that are right now building solar panels for those that didn't know this) will gladly have the corner on that market also because while we were sleeping they were looking down the road.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Oh yeah and they will still get all those tax breaks,grants, and moneys from our pocket to do so.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TimChaput69 said:


> Oh yeah and they will still get all those tax breaks,grants, and moneys from our pocket to do so.


Big money always follows the politicians. As long as we have the mindset that the government should be handing out cash for something, the larger cash pile will get the politicians ear.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

BBQ said:


> For society as a whole I am not so convinced it is yet worth it.


Bob, Im not so convinced. I think if the consensus for solar was one of "national security" an argument for the installation of solar panels on every home or building could me made.
My house draws about 5kw with the usual lights, AC and TV's on. I could just about break even with a 10kw setup if I could over produce during the day and take it back at night.
If something happened along the lines of a "doomsday" event and our transmission grid went down, we could potentially have 10s of thousands of local producers feeding partial sections of what is left of it.

Possibly another benefit;
If we decreased our importation of oil, would the price of domestic oil increase or decrease?
If the price drops too low, less people would be interested in drilling?

We seem to have some barrier to solar here in Florida most likely due to the influence of our massive utility lobby.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

jrannis said:


> Bob, Im not so convinced. I think if the consensus for solar was one of "national security" an argument for the installation of solar panels on every home or building could me made.
> My house draws about 5kw with the usual lights, AC and TV's on. I could just about break even with a 10kw setup if I could over produce during the day and take it back at night.
> If something happened along the lines of a "doomsday" event and our transmission grid went down, we could potentially have 10s of thousands of local producers feeding partial sections of what is left of it.
> 
> ...


The problem with a grid down event is your grid tie system needs to see the utility's generation to turn on and start current flowing. 

Conservation to reduce your load by half(efficiency also) is more cost effective.


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## cowboyznindianz (Mar 4, 2012)

Pattester said:


> Thanks, I didn't really think it was worthwhile, but they are being pushed a lot in the Uk.


 
How windy is it ? Wind generation would be an alterative with the lack of sunlight on your side of the pond....It would still be only supplemental I assume...:001_unsure:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> The problem with a grid down event is your grid tie system needs to see the utility's generation to turn on and start current flowing.
> 
> .


Oh, that.....

Could maybe we have it setup to operate in Armageddon mode..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

jrannis said:


> Oh, that.....
> 
> Could maybe we have it setup to operate in Armageddon mode..


Mine does, but I don't have those pesky POCO lines coming in.


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## sparkywatts (Mar 10, 2012)

garfield said:


> There is no payback when you count the opportunity cost of the money.


Depends what the opportunity is?


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## sparkywatts (Mar 10, 2012)

TimChaput69 said:


> Again when you install renewable systems you are pre-buying energy at todays rates hedging that energy costs are gonna go up. Any one that thinks fossile fuels are gonna ever get cheaper is high. Its a finite resource and one day will run out so its a pretty safe bet. I love my F350 but I can see the writing on the wall! The longer we wait to do something the harder its gonna be to change. One really good thought though is when oil does run out we no longer have to deal with the cavemen in the middle east! Just think what their world will be like when oil is gone!!!!!


I have work and visited many countries in both the middle east and the western world and have seen by far more cavemen in the western world.


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## wesleydnunder (Mar 19, 2012)

Theriot said:


> The little saving in the future isn't worth the upfront cost


I agree. We recently had a company in Austin install a 50KW solar array for our new competition swimming pool. That's about enough to run one of the pool pumps for 12 hrs. The up-front cost will never be recouped.

Mark


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

So you fill up your backyard or your roof with this stuff and you're lucky to power a couple of light bulbs. 

How much wattage would you get off the solar?

I'd look into better windows and check insulation around the house to save power. Put your hot water heater in a blanket. Turn off lights when not in use. Put a lower wattage lamp in your exterior lighting.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Look up Steven Harris. He was an engineer at GM. He does a whole break down of kilowatt cost pro and con. Not what these fly by night companies are telling you but the entire cost including the battery life and replacement.


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## WarrenG (Apr 25, 2012)

Pattester said:


> Obviously there seems to be a high subsidy at the moment, but lets face it the Uk is not very sunny.
> Also how long are the panels likely to last before they deteriorate or pack in and you have to re invest ?


Solar for the UK was looking good untill the Government decided to slash the feed-in-tarfiff (FIT) to half of what it was origionally making the payback twice as long.

The upside was that you could potentially pay for your install in (_dependant on system spec & size_) say 7-10 years and receive FIT's for a full 25 years.

Return on Investment (ROI) for some would mean that they could potentially get 12% +/- on the deal. 

On the downside, this has now been slashed with a more realistic ROI of potentially 5% and a further more strict criteria to recieve the FIT.

25 years, 5% could be achieved via a good bank or building society account without the hassel of fixing panels to your roof, but of course no-one knows how much electricity will be costing in 25 years so those who do have them may just reap the rewards?

There are lots of factors involved with installing panels in the UK. They need to be MCS approved kit and installed by an MCS approved installer.

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/

A few other factors include:-



Roof structure - suitable for windlifts and weight
Orientation of property - South is best. West, East o.k, North forget it
Shading effects - tree's, structures in locallity
Current electrical system - suitability, upto standard
Its a very expensive game to get involved with and customers really need to tick alot of boxes before you can make a clear sale.


Maybe with more and more manufacturers coming into the market the prices and criteria for Solar may change again for the better?

I don't seem to hear much about the rent-a-roof scheme's much these days i.e. Free Solar Panels.


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