# SIDE WORK; WE ARE ALL ELECTRICIANS UNION or NOT



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I wonder if this will even make it to the second page.

Hurry up guys, before the mods catch on!


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## jabschc (Jun 2, 2010)

well said n2wires


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

N2wires said:


> (Hopefully this wont turn into the same old same old) :whistling2:


It already is. :whistling2:


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I do a very small amount of side work for a very select group of customers who know how my regular work schedule is. I DO NOT AND WILL NOT SOLICIT WORK. It is just not worth the time and effort and the money is just not worth it. I ALSO DO NOT DO ANY WORK THAT THE POWER COMPANY IS INVOLVED WITH. The last work I did was I changed a GFCI breaker out out for one of my select customers sister and that was last July.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Nothing wrong with helping friends and family, friends of friends and family maybe for those who want to test the water. There's a fine line there somewhere.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Never mind.....I dont know why I bother sometimes....


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1: I am a Union member and this thread is completely useless.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I am not in the union. 

I have worked on jobs with other electrical contractors and have noticed that some of the IBEW companies as a whole are real decent guys and other IBEW companies are really suspicious and against us. 

This without anything having happened on the job to cause a fight of any type.
Has anyone else noticed this with either union or non-union contractors as a whole?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JohnR said:


> I am not in the union.
> 
> I have worked on jobs with other electrical contractors and have noticed that some of the IBEW companies as a whole are real decent guys and other IBEW companies are really suspicious and against us.
> 
> ...


 I have around here union and non union electrician's get along great and work better together than some of the guys that work for the same company's.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I really don't care who signs your paycheck, or if you're a trade unionist, I always have (and always will) support every man's basic right to earn a living by whatever means he feels is necessary. I just think it's a shame that union members seem to so often think that merit shop men are "stealing their work", but seem to think nothing of doing side work themselves. I think that EVERYONE is entitled to the work. I just wish that everyone saw it that way. That will probably never happen, but I feel about 3% better for having stated my opinion on the matter. I really couldn't give two sh!ts if an out of work union guy did a side job. More power to him. I just hope, for his own sake, that he has some insurance of some sort.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I really don't care who signs your paycheck, or if you're a trade unionist, I always have (and always will) support every man's basic right to earn a living by whatever means he feels is necessary. I just think it's a shame that union members seem to so often think that merit shop men are "stealing their work", but seem to think nothing of doing side work themselves. I think that EVERYONE is entitled to the work. I just wish that everyone saw it that way. That will probably never happen, but I feel about 3% better for having stated my opinion on the matter. I really couldn't give two sh!ts if an out of work union guy did a side job. More power to him. I just hope, for his own sake, that he has some insurance of some sort.


 I somewhat agree with you. Most locals I know of allow their members to do side work or residential without any hassle unless it is in direct competition with a union contractor.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

N2wires said:


> That being said, How am I taking work from a "CONTRACTOR" if I do a small job for "WAGES"?


Because you are NOT a contractor. You are just an apprentice, you haven't even passed your JW test. Replacing that GFCI outlet? That's my work! I spend tens of thousands a year just to call myself a contractor and you are replacing that GFCI outlet for $45.00 and taking food out of my sons mouth. If unemployed sparkies (union or not) charged a reasonable rate for their side work, then maybe the costs would rise for us guys who do small stuff too. I couldn't walk next door and work for your "wages". My only advice, spend the money on good GLI.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm no medical professional, but I do have some first-aid training. Maybe I should become a surgeon to supplement my income. Screw going to medical school. I'll work out of my garage. Need an appendix removed? Just $1,000. Open heart surgery? $3,500. Lung transplant? $6,750.

Once I get that business going, I'll open up franchises all over the country and make a fortune. Of course, I'll need to travel from city to city, and flying is the only way to go. But I'll just hop into the cockpit of a Cessna or Beechcraft and take off. My qualifications, you ask? I made paper airplanes in high school.

Of course, I'll end up getting sued royally big-time for this, but I don't need to pass the bar exam to become a lawyer. I'll just read some books and go to court.



I guess my point is an apprentice should not be pretending to be a contractor/business-owner. In most areas, doing so is illegal. The fact that it's 'a small job' is not relevant.

I don't have a problem with someone doing the work, but at least be legal when you do.... Get your ducks in a row, obtain whatever licensing is required, post a bond, and pay for liability insurance. Otherwise, you're just as bad as Jose and Carlos coming north across the border and 'trabajar para el dinero efectivo'.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

william1978 said:


> :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1: I am a Union member and this thread is completely useless.


 


I'm non uninon and this thread is completely useless.

The op is living in his own dream world. If someone came and and bid a PW job cheap,,,,he'd be the first to kick and scream,,,,but for him to break the rules is ok.

What a bafoon. To each his own,,,,,,right. Good thing you're not trying to work in my town. Either live by the rules,,,,or quit.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

I tried to resisit.......but couldn't........



N2wires said:


> Heres the nuts and bolts. I am UNION . It was the best choice for ME as I see it once I did the research.


If it was such a good choice why do you have to do side work outside of the union?



N2wires said:


> If I am talking to someone and they discover that I am an electrician and need help at their home..... depending on the job (i.e. what is entailed, cost, etc.) I will do it.


Not sure what the law is in Claifornia, but your profile says you are an apprentice.........is that legal? :no: I think NO.



N2wires said:


> Yea, I signed up UNION, and yes their are bylaws.


If state laws mean nothing to you why should the union by-laws?



N2wires said:


> I dont look at it as "Hypocritical" or "wanting the best of both worlds".


REALLY?!?!? :blink:



N2wires said:


> I have worked with NOn-Union electricians who are good at the trade and good people, and some that are ****S. Same with Union guys.


Only statement I can agree with.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I'm non uninon and this thread is completely useless.
> 
> The op is living in his own dream world. If someone came and and bid a PW job cheap,,,,he'd be the first to kick and scream,,,,but for him to break the rules is ok.
> 
> What a bafoon. To each his own,,,,,,right. Good thing you're not trying to work in my town. Either live by the rules,,,,or quit.


Yep, another the rules don't apply to ME fool. 

Probably not a RRP certified contractor either.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm so proud of me.....I didn't let myself get sucked in this time!:thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I'm so proud of me.....I didn't let myself get sucked in this time!:thumbsup:


 

You really have a typical politician mindset


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You really have a typical politician mindset


 


Wow you really are out there. Bet you listen to coast to coast everynight.:laughing:
There is nothing typical about my mindset.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Wow you really are out there. Bet you listen to coast to coast everynight.:laughing:
> There is nothing typical about my mindset.


 

Typical politician.
(or christian)
Look at me.
Look at me.
I'm better than everybody else, I'm not stooping this low, 

but yet I'll post and tell you I'm not 
If you weren't gonna officially join in,,,,then your remark was typical "christians are better than everybody else"


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Typical politician.
> (or christian)
> Look at me.
> Look at me.
> ...


 
At what point in this thread did ANYONE bring up religion? Sounds like a personal attack to me. Unprovoked.
Wow you really believe that? First I'm far from perfect or better than anyone. Have NEVER said I was.Heck I sin everyday. But I do try to be a decent person. My original post was about not getting into the union/ non union argument. Nothing to do with stooping low. You really are crazy. F**king nuts, loony and like a typical ELITEST you feel only what you believe is correct so you belittle what other people believe. I find it really funny you are so threatened by my beliefs that you have to attack what I believe every chance you get. Grow up a**hole. America's constitution guarentees everyone freedom to believe what they believe. Even you and ME.


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## George Stolz (Jan 22, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> My original post was about not getting into the union/ non union argument.


Yes, and it was funny - I'm not quite sure where the confusion came from. :001_huh:


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

^Lol, how did two guys who are agreeing with each other get into a fight?:laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

millerdrr said:


> ^Lol, how did two guys who are agreeing with each other get into a fight?:laughing:


 
How were we agreeing when he called me a typical politician?:blink:


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> How were we agreeing when he called me a typical politician?:blink:


Sorry, I meant ya'll both had the same point of view on the thread's original post. I usually disagree with you, but that attack was a bit weird and seemed to come from nowhere. I figured it must have been a dispute between you two from another thread.:laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Typical politician.
> (or christian)
> Look at me.
> Look at me.
> ...


Why not stop busting his balls because he believes?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Why not stop busting his balls because he believes?


 


I honestly did not base it on that.

I took his remark to state that he was too good to get in the conversation, yet he had to publicly announce that fact. If he didn't want to join in, he certainly didn't , he should not have. I simply stated it was typical.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I really don't care who signs your paycheck, or if you're a trade unionist, I always have (and always will) support every man's basic right to earn a living by whatever means he feels is necessary.


 
I'm with MD on this one, you get what you pay for usually and if you hire a guy for sidework the person hiring is the responsible party once the side jobber clears the property. If a electrician wants to risk his license and fines by doing side work along with the property owner I don't have a problem with it. If everyone gets caught and fined I won't lose any sleep over it either.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

millerdrr said:


> Sorry, I meant ya'll both had the same point of view on the thread's original post. I usually disagree with you, but that attack was a bit weird and seemed to come from nowhere. I figured it must have been a dispute between you two from another thread.:laughing:


 


You usually disagree with me?:blink: Must be the union thread I let myself get sucked into the other day. Or did you disagree in my faith also? Otherwise I pretty much try to be helpful and make a few snide remarks that are sometimes funny sometimes not. Good thing I was brought up to forgive.:wallbash: This is me making better use of my time.:whistling2:
I


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Union or not, side work is wrong. Either the union or your employer has paid for your training and experience, doing side work is walking a fine line of company theft IMO. Now you are at your Mom's house for Christmas dinner and she has you fix a GFCI or something that is one thing, but going out in the market on the side is another. The fine line gets erased if you use a company vehice to get there, company tools or parts, including that scrap wire that seems to be such a commidity. 

Just my 2 cents, I don't really see what this topic has to do with unions, let alone religion or politics.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Are electrical contractors in California required to collect sales tax?

If so: N2, do you got yourself a sales tax permit?:no:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Are electrical contractors in California required to collect sales tax?
> 
> If so: N2, do you got yourself a sales tax permit?:no:


No one is required to collect sales tax, just required to pay sales tax


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Zog said:


> No one is required to collect sales tax, just required to pay sales tax



OK, so then who collects and _remits_ sales tax in Califunky?


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You usually disagree with me?:blink: Must be the union thread I let myself get sucked into the other day. Or did you disagree in my faith also? Otherwise I pretty much try to be helpful and make a few snide remarks that are sometimes funny sometimes not. Good thing I was brought up to forgive.:wallbash: This is me making better use of my time.:whistling2:
> I


Yeah, I'm a pro-union guy. No offense, I probably shouldn't have said "usually disagree" since I haven't been a member nor lurked this site long enough to know anything other than your stances in the union thread the other day. Kinda irrelevant, since the other guy explained what he meant though. Please, everyone pardon my illiteracy...:laughing:

Religion, I leave alone. Actually, like you I try hard to avoid politics too, but I haven't done so well this week, either :laughing:. But religion, especially...I leave it alone.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OK, so then who collects and _remits_ sales tax in Califunky?


Ni idea, I have peeps that do that stuff for me


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Zog said:


> Ni idea, I have peeps that do that stuff for me


Well, if people fork over 8¼% in Cali to pay sales tax, and no business is required to remit it to the state, I guess the business owners get to keep it, huh? Not a bad way to increase your bottom line.......


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Well, if people fork over 8¼% in Cali to pay sales tax, and no business is required to remit it to the state, I guess the business owners get to keep it, huh? Not a bad way to increase your bottom line.......


Actually I was saying the opposite, you are required to pay the state, regardless of collecting it or not. Unless they are exempt of course.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Zog said:


> Actually I was saying the opposite, you are required to pay the state, regardless of collecting it or not. Unless they are exempt of course.



Yet my question is the same: Are ECs in Cali required to collect sales tax on their work?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yet my question is the same: Are ECs in Cali required to collect sales tax on their work?


I would assume so. I think only if they leave something behind, for a T/S call only maybe yes, maybe no, varies by state as I understand.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Zog said:


> Union or not, side work is wrong. Either the union or your employer has paid for your training and experience...


No one paid for my training or experience. I worked hard to learn what I now know and owe NOBODY for it but myself. I do feel gratitude to the people on this forum and MH for the information they share. I do agree using company vans or tools to do sidework is unethical unless the company doesn't mind.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Zog said:


> I would assume so. I think only if they leave something behind, for a T/S call only maybe yes, maybe no, varies by state as I understand.


Not being in Cali, I don't know the laws there. But my point is: If an EC in Cali is required to collect sales tax, then 'side work' is considered a taxable transaction. Not having a sales tax permit, collecting it, then remitting it to the State is a violation of the law.

Swapping out a GFI for mommy and charging her just the cost of the GFI (or have her pay for it to begin with) is one thing, but doing 'side work' that is taxable and not collecting/remitting means your a hack.

Using the company vehicle, tools, and/or material is a criminal matter.


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