# Service mast through soffit



## sparky723

I will be installing a new service next week and was wondering if anyone had any tricks or tips to drilling a clean hole through the soffit for the mast.


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## MDShunk

I generally use a hole saw with a long bell hanger's bit instead of the pilot bit. Drill up through the soffet with the pilot, hole saw the soffit, then the pilot will (hopefully) go up through the shingles. Get up on the roof and hole saw down through at the mark your pilot bit left. 

I know some guys have welded a sleeve on the back side of their hole saw to help, but I never saw the need.


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## 480sparky

Use the Binford 6300 Hole Saw:


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## erics37

I just drill a long pilot bit through from underneath, make sure it's vertical (one of those embedded bubble levels on your drill would help here). Then carbide hole saw through the roofing material, then a normal hole saw through the rest of it.


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## sparky723

Bell hanger's bit....? Never heard of such.


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## 480sparky

sparky723 said:


> Bell hanger's bit....? Never heard of such.



Basically, a very long, thin drill bit.


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## erics37

480sparky said:


> Basically, a very long, thin drill bit.


Is that what that thing is called? I always just called it a long-ass pilot bit.


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## Amish Electrician

I have had nothing but failure with MD Shunk's approach. 

The reason? A long 1/4" pilot bit will veer when it hits the sloped roof, and put the pilot hole in the wrong place.

The 'pilot' drill needs to be at least 3/8" to be rigid enough to put the hole in the right place.

The "Eureka!" moment came when I realized that I need not make a PERFECT hole. After all, it is not intended for the roof decking to support the mast. 

The roof jack will cover an area a lot larger than the hole for the mast. 

Another issue is that the roofing materials are pure destruction to the hole saw teeth. 

Perhaps a better way is to use the pilot bit to just locate the hole in the roof deck. Then use a knife to cut away shingles from the area, and a saws-it-all to make a rough opening. The roof jack will cover any 'extra' hole.


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## B W E

I have always just used a 2 1/4" hole saw with an extension bit. When feel that I've gotten through the roof sheeting, I go up and cut away the shingles with a knife to save the hole saw. Then I just ream the holes out a bit and have always been able to get the mast plumb. As said above, you could cut a 6" hole and the roof jack would cover it, though not recommended....


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## 480sparky

I jut leave the shingles in place. Usually, they'll push up when the hole saw breaks through. Then I can use the flashing to mark where to cut them and then I start messing with the shingles.


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## CopperSlave

A good trick I learned some years ago was to get the meter base mounted and use a laser-plumb to shoot a dot from the center of the hub up to the soffit. I always keep a couple of hub blanks on the truck....this helps with lining the laser up accurately on center. It sure makes the conduit installation easier when things are lined up dead-nuts.


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## B W E

CopperSlave said:


> A good trick I learned some years ago was to get the meter base mounted and use a laser-plumb to shoot a dot from the center of the hub up to the soffit. I always keep a couple of hub blanks on the truck....this helps with lining the laser up accurately on center. It sure makes the conduit installation easier when things are lined up dead-nuts.


Good idea.


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## sparky723

Amish Electrician said:


> I have had nothing but failure with MD Shunk's approach.
> 
> The reason? A long 1/4" pilot bit will veer when it hits the sloped roof, and put the pilot hole in the wrong place.
> 
> The 'pilot' drill needs to be at least 3/8" to be rigid enough to put the hole in the right place.
> 
> The "Eureka!" moment came when I realized that I need not make a PERFECT hole. After all, it is not intended for the roof decking to support the mast.
> 
> The roof jack will cover an area a lot larger than the hole for the mast.
> 
> Another issue is that the roofing materials are pure destruction to the hole saw teeth.
> 
> Perhaps a better way is to use the pilot bit to just locate the hole in the roof deck. Then use a knife to cut away shingles from the area, and a saws-it-all to make a rough opening. The roof jack will cover any 'extra' hole.


You need to make sure the hole drilled isn't too big, cause it will not hold mast securely. Too much Waller and the mast will move around easily.
Right???


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## oldtimer

sparky723 said:


> You need to make sure the hole drilled isn't too big, cause it will not hold mast securely. Too much Waller and the mast will move around easily.
> Right???


 As was quoted in a previous post ... ... the roof deck does not anchor the mast.


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## sparky723

oldtimer said:


> As was quoted in a previous post ... ... the roof deck does not anchor the mast.


This will be my first thru the soffit install...what is used to support weight of the service wire? (besides strut/straps)


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## Mr.EMJ

Guide wire and I hooks works fine..


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## watts77

Around AR we don't have to use any extra supports. The weather head is 3 1/2' above the roof so it doesn't need it. I use a long drill bit to make a pilot hole in the roof, then use a 3 1/2" holesaw for my top hole. This gives me enough play to get my riser level and plum. Then shim it up to make sure it's not going anywhere


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## sparky723

watts77 said:


> Around AR we don't have to use any extra supports. The weather head is 3 1/2' above the roof so it doesn't need it. I use a long drill bit to make a pilot hole in the roof, then use a 3 1/2" holesaw for my top hole. This gives me enough play to get my riser level and plum. Then shim it up to make sure it's not going anywhere


So....instead of supports, you shim. That's what I was referring to.


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## B W E

sparky723 said:


> This will be my first thru the soffit install...what is used to support weight of the service wire? (besides strut/straps)


When I do an overhead service change, to strap the riser I use those black steel stakes used for concrete forms. They are 18" long, about 2" wide, and 3/8" thick. I notch the studs on either side of the panel so that the stakes will sit flush against the riser. Then lag the stake to the stud. Then, a U-bolt goes around the riser, and through the stakes. One of these set up 6" above the top of the panel and one 6" below the top plate. Keeps everything snug. No support needed above the roof.


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## macmikeman

Lately, I have taken to using these buggers for my masts. Me likey. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-LENOX-ONE-TOOTH-HOLE-SAW-FOR-2-PIPE-/170748288553


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## rexowner

B W E said:


> When I do an overhead service change, to strap the riser I use those black steel stakes used for concrete forms. They are 18" long, about 2" wide, and 3/8" thick. I notch the studs on either side of the panel so that the stakes will sit flush against the riser. Then lag the stake to the stud. Then, a U-bolt goes around the riser, and through the stakes. One of these set up 6" above the top of the panel and one 6" below the top plate. Keeps everything snug. No support needed above the roof.


I'm trying to visualize this. Do you have a picture?


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## sparky723

B W E said:


> When I do an overhead service change, to strap the riser I use those black steel stakes used for concrete forms. They are 18" long, about 2" wide, and 3/8" thick. I notch the studs on either side of the panel so that the stakes will sit flush against the riser. Then lag the stake to the stud. Then, a U-bolt goes around the riser, and through the stakes. One of these set up 6" above the top of the panel and one 6" below the top plate. Keeps everything snug. No support needed above the roof.


Neat method. Any photos?


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## B W E

I'll have some by tomorrow eve. Doing one today if the meter gets unlocked.

Here's the only one I could find. You'll have to zoom in and it'll get grainy. I'll take better pictures of the one from today/tomorrow.


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## B W E

Zoomed in.....


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## Amish Electrician

"You need to make sure the hole drilled isn't too big, cause it will not hold mast securely. Too much Waller and the mast will move around easily.
Right??? "

*Wrong*. 

Sparky, both you and Watts ... and, for that matter, anyone else doing service changes, really ought to visit the web site of their PoCo to see what their requirements are. Here's a link to the standards of one:

http://www.entergy-arkansas.com/Global/your_business/installation_standards/CIS.pdf

Check out page 43 for some nice artwork of a service mast.

The mast is supposed to be supported by tying it into the wall of the building in at least two places - not by relying on the meter can or the soffit. Note that the anchoring must be to the structure itself- not just the siding. If the mast sticks up more than 30", many places will require additional guy wires or braces.

I've seen older, smaller masts bent from the weight of ice. I've seen services pull free when a piece of fascia, or siding, came loose. I've seen service wires hang low enough they were used for laundry and vollyball nets.


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## watts77

I still use straps to support the riser to the side of the house. I was just stating that your top hole doesn't have to be perfect. You can cut it a little bigger to make it work and the flashing will cover it


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## varmit

I would not recommend this, but some folks, that I knew, used a 22 rifle to shoot a hole, from the meter base, through the roof. They got by doing this out in the country with no problems. Then they tried this method in town- and somebody called the police on them. The police weren't too happy, but let them go.


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## B W E

varmit said:


> I would not recommend this, but some folks, that knew, used a 22 rifle to shoot a hole, from the meter base, through the roof. They got by doing this out in the country with no problems. Then they tried this method in town- and somebody called the police on them. The police weren't too happy, but let them go.


I read a story recently of a guy in the Midwest that did that to get a hole through his wall for a coax cable. He hit and killed his wife.


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## B W E

Heres my strapping from today's panel change.


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## BBQ

Amish Electrician said:


> "
> *Wrong*.
> 
> Sparky, both you and Watts ... and, for that matter, anyone else doing service changes, really ought to visit the web site of their PoCo to see what their requirements are. Here's a link to the standards of one:
> 
> http://www.entergy-arkansas.com/Global/your_business/installation_standards/CIS.pdf
> 
> Check out page 43 for some nice artwork of a service mast.


Check out page 117 of this one 

http://www.nationalgridus.com/non_html/shared_constr_esb750.pdf 

for my area. :laughing:



> The mast is supposed to be supported by tying it into the wall of the building in at least two places - not by relying on the meter can or the soffit. Note that the anchoring must be to the structure itself- not just the siding.


Every area is different.


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## sparky723

B W E said:


> Heres my strapping from today's panel change.


This is a really neat way to do it, but what if I want to do this w/o making a giant hole for the panel to set in? Can't get to studs then. Mine will be on the plywood on the exterior of house before siding, brick,etc. go up.


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## B W E

There is usually no way around cutting
Out the stucco, because I had to replace the riser. I guess if the riser is staying, you could get away with a smaller opening, but for this one, and most of them here, this is a must. Also, if you have a bunch of romex or flex to disconnect and reconnect, you'll need room to work.


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## sparky723

B W E said:


> There is usually no way around cutting
> Out the stucco, because I had to replace the riser. I guess if the riser is staying, you could get away with a smaller opening, but for this one, and most of them here, this is a must. Also, if you have a bunch of romex or flex to disconnect and reconnect, you'll need room to work.


Gotcha. I won't have to cut because my panel is interior on other side of meter.


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## B W E

sparky723 said:


> Gotcha. I won't have to cut because my panel is interior on other side of meter.


Nice! I need to move to where you live!


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## RGH

I am old school on this one....but I use a framing square and torpedo level and plumbob off the gutter...neat... sweet...true..like that laser trick...got me thinking:thumbsup:


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## sparky723

B W E said:


> Nice! I need to move to where you live!


So.....all of your panels are required to be outdoors?
Most panels here are indoors just opposite the meter.
Usually in a garage, utility room, etc.


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## B W E

sparky723 said:


> So.....all of your panels are required to be outdoors?
> Most panels here are indoors just opposite the meter.
> Usually in a garage, utility room, etc.


I don't think they are required to be, they just are. I'm not sure why. I should ask. Until I starting using this forum, I didn't know anyone else did it differently.


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## More Electri

is that binford 6300 home made


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## SteveBayshore

Uh -Oh, the mast is supose to be level??:whistling2::whistling2:


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## aftershockews

For some reason I thought the service entrance could not be encased by the building structure. Other than going through the roof soffit.
May just be a POCO thing here.


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## SteveBayshore

aftershockews said:


> For some reason I thought the service entrance could not be encased by the building structure. Other than going through the roof soffit.
> May just be a POCO thing here.


I worked on a couple of buildings quite a few years ago where the building soffit was what I would call a mansard roof. The 3" conduits were inside of the soffit for about eight feet. Township inspector made us form and pour concrete encasement.
Had carpenter install extra supports for soffit, snapped 12 stove pipe around the risers and filled with concrete. Wasn't bad until the second one was almost full, the 12 solid wire that we tied around the stove pipes broke. Now we had trough and meter cans encased in concrete.


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## Amish Electrician

BBQ, Pg 117 of your link has something to do with "radio and television." I don't see how that's relevant here.


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## BEAMEUP

Washington state way:


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