# Post a picture of your boxes and wiring



## duramaxdarren (Sep 12, 2012)

worst ive ever seen


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The last photo would be a huge fail in my area.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

duramaxdarren said:


> worst ive ever seen


You have not seen me on a bad day then.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The last photo would be a huge fail in my area.


They enforce bundling by you? stapling to the plate?


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

480sparky said:


> The last photo would be a huge fail in my area.


Why? Bundling? Looks like the wires are spread out enough to me..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> They enforce bundling by you? stapling to the plate?


Subject to physical damage.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Subject to physical damage.


  i run romex in circles on the sill.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Looks good to me, standard practice around here.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I'll break the ice, I want to see some resi rough work other than my own


Thanks for posting the pics Doc, braver than most on here.

Love your pictures of the loop method that you have talked about before.

When you do the loop method do you fold the NM over before pushing it through the knockout or feed it in then back out?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

markore said:


> Thanks for posting the pics Doc, braver than most on here.
> 
> Love your pictures of the loop method that you have talked about before.
> 
> When you do the loop method do you fold the NM over before pushing it through the knockout or feed it in then back out?


Yes, folded, striped before entered.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Never tried that loop-through method. How long does it take you to strip and terminate compared to feed-through?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Subject to physical damage.


That is a pretty bogus call IMO.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The last photo would be a huge fail in my area.





Shockdoc said:


> They enforce bundling by you? stapling to the plate?





Bugz11B said:


> Why? Bundling? Looks like the wires are spread out enough to me..





480sparky said:


> Subject to physical damage.


Your AHJ s are idiots and you can tell them I said so. :thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Big John said:


> Never tried that loop-through method. How long does it take you to strip and terminate compared to feed-through?


Less time, I use a method of drilling all my holes down, drilling angles between them from the floor below or using the plate and header, pulling the ckt thru the run , starting at the end from below, pushing a guestimated folded end up the hole and work my way back to the first box/hr. It takes me about 3 hours to drill, run and terminate the second floor of a 3 bdrm house. The time it really saves is on the final. It also cuts down on wire, that particular job used 300' of 14/2 to cover all the 2 nd floor outlets. For the whole house my wire total was 1750' 14/2, 600' 12/2, 400' 14/3. The HO did add 20 hihats, bath fans and a few optional circuits.


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

I found the loop method interesting and I suppose it offers some terrific reliability with no splices. What about the labor? it seems it would take more time to strip off the jacket and bare the conductors?
Bottom photo would fail for running on the sill plate if any drywall was installed later. I would want to see no more than 3 -2 wire cable bundled or derate them. any cable susceptable to nailing must be back 1 1/4" or 32MM away from the face of the studs so that means in the structure.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I really like the loop method


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Mshea said:


> Bottom photo would fail for running on the sill plate if any drywall was installed later. .


 huh?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

This was nice, started as a code rough, Future HO added hats, UC lighting, ex fans and additional ckts as well as a full media system and speakers, sub woofers thru out .


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> This was nice, started as a code rough, Future HO added hats, UC lighting, ex fans and additional ckts as well as a full media system and speakers, sub woofers thru out .


 you do the audio?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mshea said:


> I would want to see no more than 3 -2 wire cable bundled or derate them. any cable susceptable to nailing must be back 1 1/4" or 32MM away from the face of the studs so that means in the structure.





Next72969 said:


> huh?


I guess they use really long screws to screw the drywall to the sill. :blink:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Shock it looks like in pic 2 that you have some loops at your switches. Whats going on here?

BTW, I picked up your loop through method from one of your old threads. When possible, I like to use it. Definitely speeds up the trim.


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## sparky402 (Oct 15, 2013)

Never seen the loop method. Wasit something taught to you or something you came up with. Pic 2 whats up with the loops. I know someone else askedalready


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

:thumbsup: Here's some of my quality work


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Alright, what heck is the "loop method"?:001_huh:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Next72969 said:


> you do the audio?


HOs friend has a shop in the Hamptons, he shipped all the wire, spaeker backplates, and a detailed bluprint of what to where. I will do all the rough in work, he will terminate. I'm happy with this arrangement, no one else is running wires on my job and as an extra, it's good for $2k for the day using my drill and staples.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MHElectric said:


> Shock it looks like in pic 2 that you have some loops at your switches. Whats going on here?
> 
> BTW, I picked up your loop through method from one of your old threads. When possible, I like to use it. Definitely speeds up the trim.


I've been using that method since 03'. If the job is an unholy in the way of framing I break the wires at the switches and pigtail. I try to run the whole circuit unbroken in it's entirety ( with exception to neutrals in switch boxes) , it makes the job more challenging thus creative. In time , that method gets faster than the conventional cut, tie ground together , stab or screw wires.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

duramaxdarren said:


> worst ive ever seen


As it should be.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

sparky402 said:


> Never seen the loop method. Wasit something taught to you or something you came up with. Pic 2 whats up with the loops. I know someone else askedalready


I got stuck going 100 miles away to a rough in a tough jurisdiction without restocking greenies and wirenuts before I left. I had to make the job compliant utilizing what little I had in connectors. Kind of stumbled on the method in doing so but learned it went just as fast and felt it is more reliable.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

flyboy said:


> Alright, what heck is the "loop method"?:001_huh:


The NM is not cut and spliced... just 'looped' through the box.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I got stuck going 100 miles away to a rough in a tough jurisdiction without restocking greenies and wirenuts before I left. I had to make the job compliant utilizing what little I had in connectors. Kind of stumbled on the method in doing so but learned it went just as fast and felt it is more reliable.


Why would not having greenies matter? Wire connectors you can get anywhere.


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Why would not having greenies matter? Wire connectors you can get anywhere.



Why do you carry dog treats with you? Weird.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> Why would not having greenies matter? Wire connectors you can get anywhere.


I was limited on everything, pretty much down to a few of these and a few of those and I was in East Hampton, NY . I created a way where those few wirenuts I had can be used for fixtures and what I really needed them for w/o making the distress call to my boss and looking foolish. Thus the loop system was born.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> Why do you carry dog treats with you? Weird.


Another electrician I work with carries dog treats for customers dogs, after he treated it, as we all surveyed the job, the dog bite him .


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## panelbuilder (Jul 12, 2013)

How do you strip the wire when it's looped?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Utility knife, slice about 7-8" of jacket off, rip paper, slice tips of insulated conductors.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> The last photo would be a huge fail in my area.


I would never get away with that here either. Maybe if it was a drop ceiling, but what if drywall is going there? :001_huh:


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Utility knife, slice about 7-8" of jacket off, rip paper, slice tips of insulated conductors.





Shockdoc said:


> Less time, I use a method of drilling all my holes down, drilling angles between them from the floor below or using the plate and header, pulling the ckt thru the run , starting at the end from below, pushing a guestimated folded end up the hole and work my way back to the first box/hr. It takes me about 3 hours to drill, run and terminate the second floor of a 3 bdrm house.


Thanks a lot for these great posts. 

Can you go into a little more detail/explaination of how your are passing through the framing members? 


> Drilling all my holes down
> Drilling angles between them from the floor below


Are you always looping through the framing members or are you talking about passing through and only looping in the box here...?


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Mshea said:


> . any cable susceptable to nailing must be back 1 1/4" or 32MM away from the face of the studs so that means in the structure.





Ink&Brass said:


> I would never get away with that here either. Maybe if it was a drop ceiling, but what if drywall is going there? :001_huh:


If that wall was going to be drywalled in the future, wouldn't the wall be studded out, putting the drywall 4" from the wire?


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Ink&Brass said:


> I would never get away with that here either. Maybe if it was a drop ceiling, but what if drywall is going there? :001_huh:


 i still dont get it


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Ink&Brass said:


> I would never get away with that here either. Maybe if it was a drop ceiling, but what if drywall is going there? :001_huh:


Then they would be required to use 2x3 or 2x4 instead of furring strips or channel.

First one to get inspected/approved, wins.
If the PLANS submitted for the electrical inspection show furring strips, FAIL.
If there are no plans or plans show unfinished or 2x4 then it should pass... but the GC may be pissed to have to work around the cables.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Your work is clean for sure. I'll bet there isn't anyone else who wires like you do.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Mshea said:


> I found the loop method interesting and I suppose it offers some terrific reliability with no splices. What about the labor? it seems it would take more time to strip off the jacket and bare the conductors?
> Bottom photo would fail for running on the sill plate if any drywall was installed later. I would want to see no more than 3 -2 wire cable bundled or derate them. any cable susceptable to nailing must be back 1 1/4" or 32MM away from the face of the studs so that means in the structure.


The loop is cool but I dont see how it would be efficient.. for me stripping the sheath the right length and then getting it in the box seems like too much trouble plus what happens with the slack if you can't push it down under the floor?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

dronai said:


> :thumbsup: Here's some of my quality work


did that box go through a fire??


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

in the last picture i dont get what all the loops are for. a wall going there, or are they going up?


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

You by chance didn't own a home in Maine? I have a family member who's home was built by a master electrician who did the loop method all over. Place was built in the 90s


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

markore said:


> Thanks a lot for these great posts.
> 
> Can you go into a little more detail/explaination of how your are passing through the framing members?
> 
> ...


I will take ceilng pics on Friday, that will best explain it. Note. When I drill angles , I **** my drill into the angle so there is none to little resistance while pulling all that wire thru, depending on how many points and angles are involved I'll either break it at a Y receptacle or pull a load of wire to center .Using the TGI joist these days it also helps in floating wires thru holes.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

in the last picture i dont get what all the loops are for. a wall going there, or are they going up? 
[/quote]Panel is going there, I'm trying not to advertise them by leaving the hanging to the floor.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Edrick said:


> You by chance didn't own a home in Maine? I have a family member who's home was built by a master electrician who did the loop method all over. Place was built in the 90s


 There are others:devil2:


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

jza said:


> Your work is clean for sure. I'll bet there isn't anyone else who wires like you do.



Why are kissing his a**?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Next72969 said:


> huh?


In Canada, basement walls are studded, insulated and vapour barriered. Can't stud the wall with cable in the way.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

99cents said:


> In Canada, basement walls are studded, insulated and vapour barriered. Can't stud the wall with cable in the way.


These are flood zone homes, cement remains bare. Only in garage ceiling gets 5/8" firecode rock.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> These are flood zone homes, cement remains bare. Only in garage ceiling gets 5/8" firecode rock.


So no basement development allowed in a flood zone house, Shock?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

99cents said:


> So no basement development allowed in a flood zone house, Shock?


Not by building codes, what they do after CO is issued is another story but they won't get a dime of insurance money except for stairways to ground level in the event of another flood. The basement as posted in pic is the ground level.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> Not by building codes, what they do after CO is issued is another story but they won't get a dime of insurance money except for stairways to ground level in the event of another flood. The basement as posted in pic is the ground level.


Interesting how they build things according to geography. Thanks, Shock  .


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Doc, you got me interested in this now. How about getting one of your wenches to hold a video camera on you so we can translate your spanglish description of the methodology into something understandable ? 

Post a Youtube video please..



Only make it private somehow so that the marachi band cannot see it and copycat......


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

union347sparky said:


> Why are kissing his a**?


Why do you suck **** at the hall?


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

jza said:


> Why do you suck **** at the hall?


Haven't been to my hall in years. Lol.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm not sold on the loop method just yet. I think I could be about even using wagos to make up the grounds. Still, I think it's an interesting way to do it.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I will take ceilng pics on Friday, that will best explain it. Note. When I drill angles , I **** my drill into the angle so there is none to little resistance while pulling all that wire thru, depending on how many points and angles are involved I'll either break it at a Y receptacle or pull a load of wire to center .Using the TGI joist these days it also helps in floating wires thru holes.


So do you mean you're driling small pilot hole down and then you 45 for the angle from below with a larger bit? What size bit for two folded cables?


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

i have seen a lot of this loop method over the years. even in my own house there is a lot of those loops made by previous electrician 20 years ago


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MTW said:


> I'm not sold on the loop method just yet. I think I could be about even using wagos to make up the grounds. Still, I think it's an interesting way to do it.


Not every house I've ever do gets looped, I did one for a governemnt employee that got backstabbed and used the crappy Ideal push in connectors. A HOs first impression dictates the amount of quality I put into their job, brag to me you civil service and request a discount.........I'll give a discount in quality for a higher price.:laughing:


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I've always used loops with THHN in EMT . . . I've not yet tried it with Romex but I like the idea.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Next72969 said:


> i still dont get it


Next is ET's famous confused monkey. :thumbup:


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## Djnigel (Dec 10, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I was limited on everything, pretty much down to a few of these and a few of those and I was in East Hampton, NY . I created a way where those few wirenuts I had can be used for fixtures and what I really needed them for w/o making the distress call to my boss and looking foolish. Thus the loop system was born.


I guess you don't know where Revco is in East hampton then huh lol..


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

I have been looping wire for years....not all the time but in a 3 or 4 gang switch box...feed in strip jacket/trim 3" of insulation off end then space cut/slide repeat... zoom bang done. But no sill plate nailing here..it don't fly...drill it or protect it, they even freak when we go under cold-air return tin....put a strip of wood up then staple to it...new work is speed and wire saving....if its to code it works for me:thumbsup: Note: Arlintion pvc gutters next?....thoughts?


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## Quijibo (Jan 20, 2013)

Picture thread lacks pictures...


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

I wouldn't be able to do the wires like that in the basement. But as you already stated you don't finish the basement. Do you not require a service loop for all plugs and switches ? Because all yours all string tight


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Some of mine.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

neet work. looks good, but are those staples rated for three cables?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

papaotis said:


> neet work. looks good, but are those staples rated for three cables?


Yes, grey are for 3, tan are for 2 and the make a white one that is for 4. http://handystraps.com/


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

2 gang boxes here must be supported on 2 sides.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electricguy said:


> 2 gang boxes here must be supported on 2 sides.


Code ref?


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

electricguy said:


> 2 gang boxes here must be supported on 2 sides.


That there be crazy, yo. 

Thought the rule is "greater than 4in" of course not quoting, because it would be in mm.. but thought it was just boxes greater than 4in, which would be a 4&11/16 or 3gang.. a 2gang is exactly 4in?

I never support a double gang on the other side. But I'm gangsta.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

maybe a 2 gang was just a best practice. I was trained to support the 2 gang or bigger with a 2x4 backing humm


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electricguy said:


> maybe a 2 gang was just a best practice. I was trained to support the 2 gang or bigger with a 2x4 backing humm


So, no code ref? So is the top a side? How about the bottom. Wait, you don't follow the NEC. Never mind.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Dug it up and crazy enough, CEC actually says 4in which is nuts because they never use imperial now.



>


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

backstay said:


> Yes, grey are for 3, tan are for 2 and the make a white one that is for 4. http://handystraps.com/


Do you have an online source for the handystraps, or do you get them at the SH ?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

If anyone ranks on the blue carlon box I will go rip them a new one




















































Because that's the heavy duty version:laughing::jester:


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## Judoka (Oct 13, 2012)

Mshea said:


> I found the loop method interesting and I suppose it offers some terrific reliability with no splices. What about the labor? it seems it would take more time to strip off the jacket and bare the conductors?
> Bottom photo would fail for running on the sill plate if any drywall was installed later. I would want to see no more than 3 -2 wire cable bundled or derate them. any cable susceptable to nailing must be back 1 1/4" or 32MM away from the face of the studs so that means in the structure.


I have used this method as far as leaving a loop at each box area when pulling cable. However, when bringing cables into the box, cables are cut and entered separately. Im not convinced that running in one piece would save time?? Just my opinion though.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Judoka said:


> I have used this method as far as leaving a loop at each box area when pulling cable. However, when bringing cables into the box, cables are cut and entered separately. Im not convinced that running in one piece would save time?? Just my opinion though.


It looks like to make it work you would have to pass it through a plastic NMD connector in a conduit knockout, and still attach a copper tail to bond the receptacle to the box. It looks cool but I don't know if it saves much time.


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

Alright I'll bite. First month into apprentice school. 






















At least it's not as bad as the other kid's work. :lol:






:whistling2:


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

99cents said:


> In Canada, basement walls are studded, insulated and vapour barriered. Can't stud the wall with cable in the way.


 oh that will surely affect him on long island


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

99cents said:


> In Canada, basement walls are studded, insulated and vapour barriered. Can't stud the wall with cable in the way.


But the cable is not in the way, it is up on the sill.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

BBQ said:


> But the cable is not in the way, it is up on the sill.


 i really dont get the confusion, perhaps im the idiot


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Wait , i get it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> Alright I'll bite. First month into apprentice school.
> 
> At least it's not as bad as the other kid's work. :lol:


Wow...just wow. Don't they have any teachers supervising? That work is atrocious. :001_huh:


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Lol.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc bump, you still going to post the pics or commentary on the framing member drilling for your loop method?

Which one of these is the :batman: batsignal for Shockdoc?

:ninja: :zorro: :shuriken: :donatello:

I've been know to run a covert wire infusion operation once or twice myself. :thumbsup:


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

MTW said:


> Wow...just wow. Don't they have any teachers supervising? That work is atrocious. :001_huh:


The kid's or mine? 'Cause mine passed by two Utah Masters.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> The kid's or mine? 'Cause mine passed by two Utah Masters.


The panel.


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## joppy (Sep 11, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> The kid's or mine? 'Cause mine passed by two Utah Masters.


Not sure wether to laugh or cry at the sight of that panel :laughing:


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> The kid's or mine? 'Cause mine passed by two Utah Masters.


LOL unless you've ironed all your wires straight and have the lengths to 1/32" these guys here will bust your butt, can't zoom in on the pics to really bust your backside on your work, so that is a good thing.  

That panel was done by an apprentice? Don't need to even look hard at that one, was that Cletus' apprentice? My first comment would have been walking upto that lab cell would be "Have you considered plumbing as a career?, re-do completely or you get a 3 out of 10 "


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

daks said:


> LOL unless you've ironed all your wires straight and have the lengths to 1/32" these guys here will bust your butt, can't zoom in on the pics to really bust your backside on your work, so that is a good thing.
> 
> That panel was done by an apprentice? Don't need to even look hard at that one, was that Cletus' apprentice? My first comment would have been walking upto that lab cell would be "Have you considered plumbing as a career?, re-do completely or you get a 3 out of 10 "


The kid who did that panel told me to go screw myself when I offered help. :laughing:

He failed the whole class with a F and was never seen again. :thumbup:

This was my panel makeup. Note: first panel.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Do you have an online source for the handystraps, or do you get them at the SH ?


My SH, vikingelectric.com


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

That_Dude said:


> The kid who did that panel told me to go screw myself when I offered help. :laughing:
> 
> He failed the whole class with a F and was never seen again. :thumbup:
> 
> ...







Just asking !

Why white wires on breakers ?

Maybe it's just my eyes !


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## joppy (Sep 11, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> Just asking !
> 
> Why white wires on breakers ?
> 
> Maybe it's just my eyes !


I believe the neutral bar is hidden behind the breaker in the picture, like on the left


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> He failed the whole class with a F and was never seen again. :thumbup:



That's hard to believe. He seemed destined for greatness in the electrical trade. :no::laughing:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

That_Dude said:


> Alright I'll bite. First month into apprentice school.
> 
> At least it's not as bad as the other kid's work. :lol:
> :whistling2:


You need to strip less insulation on the wires going to the breakers. There's too much copper showing.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

That_Dude said:


> The kid who did that panel told me to go screw myself when I offered help. :laughing:
> 
> He failed the whole class with a F and was never seen again. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


 Much better than your "plumber" friend, as one of the better conscientious students I'd hassel you for the bottom LH wire being a little crooked compared to the rest, I took the time to zoom in on your breaker connections and could not see copper like someone else mentioned. I can't see the bonding(ground wires) on that pic, but what I look for there is that the copper is not sticking out getting in the way like the plumbers cabinet. I'd ask what you would do in the field about the open knockouts in the case. Then I'd wiggle a couple of your breaker connections and double check that none of the insulation was under the screws and unscrew one to ensure enough copper was stripped to the proper length. I'm not used to those 'merican panels so I'm not sure where the neutral/ground strap screw goes on that panel (I'm an evil bastard, I go into the Lab early and pull out the ground screws/bonding jumpers and wait to see who asks about them as that is one of the things I put emphasis on in the lecture part).

So it looks like a snake and a plunger are not required in your tool kit


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

markore said:


> Shockdoc bump, you still going to post the pics or commentary on the framing member drilling for your loop method?
> 
> Which one of these is the :batman: batsignal for Shockdoc?
> 
> ...


Im waiting to get my computer up and running. I've been 
Snapping pics all week.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

New Vantage enclosure (Home automation) slightly less room then before. (this is only 3rd floor panel, there is 3 more that will be downstairs)


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> New Vantage enclosure (Home automation) slightly less room then before.


Looks good. Why not flip them loadcenters though?


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> Looks good. Why not flip them loadcenters though?


I dont like the look of stubby little wires just poking in, if my boss told me to so he could save a little loot on wire I would but I think he likes how I do my panels and doesnt bother me over the little extra cost.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)




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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

Bugz11B said:


> I dont like the look of stubby little wires just poking in, if my boss told me to so he could save a little loot on wire I would but I think he likes how I do my panels and doesnt bother me over the little extra cost.


 well it looks clean and nice. Nice work.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> View attachment 33467


Did you watch as the electrician installed that?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

MTW said:


> Did you watch as the electrician installed that?


Waited til he went home for the day then snapped the pic


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Waited til he went home for the day then snapped the pic


Plastic bushings on PVC?

I know it's a code requirement.. but really?

Pete


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Pete m. said:


> Plastic bushings on PVC? I know it's a code requirement.. but really? Pete


Habit. Bushings are cheap and takes all of 2 seconds to spin them on. Plus I like the pretty blues. Code is code


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> New Vantage enclosure (Home automation) s:laughing:lightly less room then before. (this is only 3rd floor panel, there is 3 more that will be downstairs)


Holy chit. 
:notworthy::laughing::thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> Plastic bushings on PVC?
> 
> I know it's a code requirement.. but really?
> 
> Pete


PVC male adapters can skin a large conductor more easy than you think. I always use bushings when required.

However, I did back stab some receptacles today, so I'm no saint.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Ill take some pictures of these 2 classrooms Im wiring after Ive clipped them tommorow, its my first solo electrical job, roped it out today and just need to put in some fire boxes and run the mains tommorow.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

chewy said:


> Ill take some pictures of these 2 classrooms Im wiring after Ive clipped them tommorow, its my first solo electrical job, roped it out today and just need to put in some fire boxes and run the mains tommorow.


. Classrooms built out of wood framing ? First I've ever seen that . Usually all block , concrete and steel studs around here . Good luck on your 1st solo gig ! The novelty of being in charge and running work usually dies off after a few years .


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

drumnut08 said:


> . Classrooms built out of wood framing ? First I've ever seen that . Usually all block , concrete and steel studs around here . Good luck on your 1st solo gig ! The novelty of being in charge and running work usually dies off after a few years .


Oh its just my first electrical job, I do all the elv service calls and small jobs.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Interesting to see that you use furring strips in NZ.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

MTW said:


> Interesting to see that you use furring strips in NZ.


Theres no furring strips here, its all timber.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

chewy said:


> Theres no furring strips here, its all timber.


Ahh I can see that now.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

MTW said:


> Ahh I can see that now.


We do use them though, in timber or hardies.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

This is a firewall so steel box is used.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

This is a bracing wall so no cables could come down the wall, builder wanted it fed from the side. This is the equivalent of a carlon blue box for NZ.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

chewy said:


> This is a firewall so steel box is used.


 
Do you always mount the boxes horizontally ?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Do you always mount the boxes horizontally ?


I prefer to as you can easily plug and unplug the dual outlets. These are going to be 4 gang outlets. Resi is always vertical though.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Is that your version of romex? Can you take a close up picture of it?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Cables are clipped by staple gun staples shot in proud then zip tied. Not sure if this has ever been done I just made it up since supply house is an hr away and I had no clipped.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

MTW said:


> Is that your version of romex? Can you take a close up picture of it?


2.5mm^2 thermal plastic sheathed.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

chewy said:


> 2.5mm^2 thermal plastic sheathed.


is that stranded?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> Plastic bushings on PVC?
> 
> I know it's a code requirement.. but really?
> 
> Pete


 
Open up a code book once in a while.:jester:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

drspec said:


> is that stranded?


6 conductors.


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

chewy said:


> Cables are clipped by staple gun staples shot in proud then zip tied. Not sure if this has ever been done I just made it up since supply house is an hr away and I had no clipped.


Are those boxes open backed for the Romex? 
Close up plz. :whistling2:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

That_Dude said:


> Are those boxes open backed for the Romex?
> Close up plz. :whistling2:


Yeah,


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

chewy said:


> Yeah,


Fire rating much? :blink:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

That_Dude said:


> Fire rating much? :blink:


They arent for fire rated walls, the steel ones are.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

chewy said:


> 2.5mm^2 thermal plastic sheathed.


Does your finger say "Cletis"?? LOL. I have never seen a box like that (open back) other then for the LV guys I dont believe we are allowed to use them here.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

Bugz11B said:


> Does your finger say "Cletis"?? LOL. I have never seen a box like that (open back) other then for the LV guys I dont believe we are allowed to use them here.


I agree with you. Only place a hole is where the wires enter the box.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Troyboy said:


> I agree with you. Only place a hole is where the wires enter the box.


These wires enter through the only hole in the box...


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

chewy said:


> These wires enter through the only hole in the box...


Uh....those look like extra low voltage rings to me. I use these for single gangs http://jpindustry.en.busytrade.com/selling_leads/info/1606256/Metal-Electrical-Box-2104-LLE.html


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Troyboy said:


> Uh....those look like extra low voltage rings to me. I use these for single gangs http://jpindustry.en.busytrade.com/selling_leads/info/1606256/Metal-Electrical-Box-2104-LLE.html


Yeah, I did it on an aluminum ladder wearing shorts and a wife beater also.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

chewy said:


> Yeah, I did it on an aluminum ladder wearing shorts and a wife beater also.


Dude I'm being serious. There is nothing to contain a spark how the hell are those acceptable by code. Especially in a combustible wall.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Troyboy said:


> Dude I'm being serious. There is nothing to contain a spark how the hell are those acceptable by code. Especially in a combustible wall.


You realize he's not in the greatest country in the world right?? Just making sure


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Chewy,

post a picture of a device that goes in those boxes.

Id like to see how they wire up compared to American devices.

the only way I can figure a open back box would work would be if they are self contained like the trailer switches and receptacles here are.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> You realize he's not in the greatest country in the world right?? Just making sure


No I can't see the country on my phone app.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Troyboy said:


> No I can't see the country on my phone app.


He's in New Zealand buddy


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> You realize he's not in the greatest country in the world right?? Just making sure


No he's not in Canada, he's in the SECOND greatest country. :thumbup:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> No he's not in Canada, he's in the SECOND greatest country. :thumbup:


I thought we were letting the feud die!!!! Apologize!!!!


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

FrunkSlammer said:


> No he's not in Canada, he's in the SECOND greatest country. :thumbup:


1st USA 2nd NZ??? then the third planet?? not the order I would have chose  I'd say.... 1. USA 2. Israel 3. Britain 4. Mother Russia 5. Zimbabwe 6. Afghanistan 7. S. Korea 8. Canada 9. NZ 10. Hell (Just kidding dont get worked up)


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Haha, looks like the previous owners son just ran 4 core straight out of the board.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

chewy said:


> Haha, looks like the previous owners son just ran 4 core straight out of the board.


No strain relief eh?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

cdnelectrician said:


> No strain relief eh?


Theres no strain and the standard test that the terminals are done up tight enough is to try and pull the wires out, if they were going to come out it would be then.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ah!!! The boxes have no back!!! Ah!!! The children!!! 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

drspec said:


> Chewy,
> 
> post a picture of a device that goes in those boxes.
> 
> ...


A few pics here http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...e_Australia_wall_boxes_not_re.html#Post212285


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

chewy said:


> Ill take some pictures of these 2 classrooms Im wiring after Ive clipped them tommorow, its my first solo electrical job, roped it out today and just need to put in some fire boxes and run the mains tommorow.


Weird. Solo?

Here a 1st. year would still be sweeping up. Still, wood frame for classrooms, open back boxes. What a country eh?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

chewy said:


> 2.5mm^2 thermal plastic sheathed.


Amacity rating? Gauge equivalent?


I like the insulated egc, should be an NEC requirement.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Ah!!! The boxes have no back!!! Ah!!! The children!!!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


That's horrible....those poor kids that accidentally got closed into a wall might get shocked now.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

daveEM said:


> Weird. Solo?
> 
> Here a 1st. year would still be sweeping up. Still, wood frame for classrooms, open back boxes. What a country eh?


I swept up after I finished. A tradesman came and looked at my work yesterday and sized the main, he said I clipped it too much and said it should just lay on the bottom chords of the trusses but all in all nice tidy work.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

meadow said:


> Amacity rating? Gauge equivalent?
> 
> I like the insulated egc, should be an NEC requirement.


I believe the 2.5mm ccan handle 20a but if we run a 20a circuit we run 4mm.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

chewy said:


> I believe the 2.5mm ccan handle 20a but if we run a 20a circuit we run 4mm.


Thanks! Do you normally put it on a 16 though?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

meadow said:


> Thanks! Do you normally put it on a 16 though?


Yeah usually 16 I think. Lights are on 10a. I havent made a small panel up yet.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

meadow said:


> Amacity rating? Gauge equivalent?
> 
> 
> I like the insulated egc, should be an NEC requirement.


I checked wikipedia, and it looks like 2.5mm^2 is about equal to a #14, whereas a 4mm^2 is between 12 and 10, closer to 12. Unsure of ampacity though.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I checked wikipedia, and it looks like 2.5mm^2 is about equal to a #14, whereas a 4mm^2 is between 12 and 10, closer to 12. Unsure of ampacity though.


4mm can take 32a.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Anyone have a conversion chart? I know there not identical but at least gauge converted to millimeter.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chewy, that's hack work. Are you even an electrician? :001_huh:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

MTW said:


> Chewy, that's hack work. Are you even an electrician? :001_huh:


Its resi style stuff... Ive never touched metallic pipe either so Im not a real electrical apprentice. I enjoy this stuff alot more.


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