# Fired!



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Ozzy1990 said:


> Yep, walked through "Danger" tape and safety man caught me. On another note I was told that I have the highest GPA in the apprenticeship (1st-5th)
> They really have over done it with the "Danger" tape (red) I haven't seen any yellow in months.


Just think of what a waste of money that safety Guys job is.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Ozzy1990 said:


> They really have over done it with the "Danger" tape (red) ....



...as an apprentice [or even as a person who is not over seeing a substantial portion project], what makes you qualified to justify that statement?

I've been on jobs where there are miles of red danger tape...looks safe from ground level.... but 300' overhead is a crane's swing path.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Before we refuse to take responsibility for our actions and blame others, why was the tape there?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Just think of what a waste of money that safety Guys job is.


Yeah, safe jobs are dumb.


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

It was the safety manager from the GC. Everyone in the company I was with was on my side. I later heard that the particular guy that caught me has beef with company I was working with. When I mean over done with red tape I mean that they don't use any yellow (or least that I have seen).


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Not that I have any special love for safety guys, but what was the "Danger" tape guarding?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Ozzy1990 said:


> When I mean over done with red tape I mean that they don't use any yellow (or least that I have seen).


So wrap yourself in a roll of red tape for your grievence and yell *"ya'll see any yellow fellas?"* 


whadda ya got to loose?

~CS~


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

I remember back when safety nazis didn't exist. You could usually count on somebody getting killed or permanently maimed on a big job site.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Big John said:


> Not that I have any special love for safety guys, but what was the "Danger" tape guarding?


the safety dude's future employment....? ~CS~


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, safe jobs are dumb.


Oh please. It is NOT about keeping you safe, it's about insurance claims. 

I also think we've gone off the deep end with padded room job sites and lives. 
We are in an inherently dangerous trade. I am all for safety, or should I say I am not for blatant recklessness, but we are being "safetied" and ruled into a pathetic corner.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Oh please. It is NOT about keeping you safe, it's about insurance claims.
> 
> I also think we've gone off the deep end with padded room job sites and lives.
> We are in an inherently dangerous trade. I am all for safety, or should I say I am not for blatant recklessness, but we are being "safetied" and ruled into a pathetic corner.


I'm no expert on the matter but I suspect that most safety regulations have come to be due to high body count.

I've been on jobs using the red and yellow tape for safety boundaries and if the red tape is there, it means stay the hell out and usually for good reason! If someone is hoisting a 1000 pound switchgear overhead and it was rigged poorly, I don't want to be under it. I don't get paid enough to be in such a hurry that I risk life and limb going through a red tape zone.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I try to be as safe as practical, but I have to admit some of the safety stuff is absolutely ridiculous (like the jobs that don't allow knives)


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

It was a steel erecting area but there was no steel being swung. I went back out with the steward to collect my tools (which is why I went in the area in the first place) and there I saw the lead guy of steel erecting company along with 3-4 clients walking in the SAME area I did WITH steel swinging overhead. I pointed that out to the steward and he said "oh thats the guy from buckner, he can be in there!" I said oh I forgot the steel has the ability to think and wont ever fall on him or the client!


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I've been on sites where the goofs putting up the tape make it impossible to figure out which side of the tape you're on. 

And on sites where any lazy tradesman would tape up their area, just to try and keep people from coming and going where they are working. 

Those sites make tape unreliable.. you just assume it's all BS tape. Make sure you rip it down when you pass through it, that way you can claim it was not up. No firing.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

I love over safe job sites. It seems weird to me when a job has no or relaxed safety because no one is watching. I like when people are watching because it is not me I'm worried about it is the other fools who are in a rush and will hurt you.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> ...Those sites make tape unreliable.. you just assume it's all BS tape...


 That's the biggest danger of over-safety. I used to have those arguments all the time with the safety guys at the plants: 

If you put up "Caution" and "Danger" signs for everything under the sun, then people don't really pay attention to the few important signs.

If you paint practically _everything _in the plant "safety yellow" then it really defeats the point of marking areas people need to be aware of.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, safe jobs are dumb.


No,,,,,,Having someone babysit professional is dumb.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> No,,,,,,Having someone babysit professional is dumb.


Some professionals are more professional than others...


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Danger tape is taken seriously on industrial sites, deal with it. 

I've called lifts cause of other subs guys wandering through tape where they weren't allowed, the delay corrected the problem as the GC went nuts. :laughing: If we are the GC on a project we'll just toss you.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Ozzy1990 said:


> Yep, walked through "Danger" tape and safety man caught me. On another note I was told that I have the highest GPA in the apprenticeship (1st-5th)
> They really have over done it with the "Danger" tape (red) I haven't seen any yellow in months.


I am assuming they told you when you started that job that you would get fired or laid off if you broke certain rules, I assume that the red tape rule was one of them. Well you walked through the red tape and they kept their part of the bargain.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Big John said:


> That's the biggest danger of over-safety, and a lot of safety guys don't get it. I used to have those arguments all the time with the safety guys at the plants:
> 
> If you put up "Caution" and "Danger" signs for everything under the sun, then people don't really pay attention to the few important signs.
> 
> ...


Agreed on this; oversaturating a job site with safety stuff leads to leniency on everyone's end - workers for ignoring it and safety guys for being lax on enforcement. I think it is safe to assume that on a construction site, the whole thing could be considered a "yellow tape" caution zone, so to speak. ACTUAL yellow, or red, tape should be due to a specific area requiring additional warning notifications above and beyond the general level of wariness required.



HARRY304E said:


> No,,,,,,Having someone babysit professional is dumb.


Harry, by this logic, we shouldn't adopt a National Electrical Code or have inspectors to enforce it


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Rules are rules. 

If you are willing to ignore safety tape you need to be fired until you learn - what happens when you decide to ignore a safety rule that gets someone killed?

Especially as an apprentice, especially red tape and especially because your attitude.

It does not make any difference what you GPA is - you are obviously too stupid to not cross the danger tape.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Ozzy1990 said:


> It was a steel erecting area but there was no steel being swung. I went back out with the steward to collect my tools (which is why I went in the area in the first place) and there I saw the lead guy of steel erecting company along with 3-4 clients walking in the SAME area I did WITH steel swinging overhead. I pointed that out to the steward and he said "oh thats the guy from buckner, he can be in there!" I said oh I forgot the steel has the ability to think and wont ever fall on him or the client!


If he put the tape up or had permission from the person who did, then he can be there.


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

To explain the whole thing would take a few pages. Ill try some bullet points.
>been with another crew the whole week
>saw original crew working in the same area during week (red tape)
>they moved the gangbox with tools into said area
>went to go get tools
>tape must have changed hands late thursday - early friday.

Nobody ever told me that "hey the electricians are not allowed in there anymore."


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Ozzy1990 said:


> Yep, walked through "Danger" tape and safety man caught me. On another note I was told that I have the highest GPA in the apprenticeship (1st-5th)
> They really have over done it with the "Danger" tape (red) I haven't seen any yellow in months.


One strike and you're out? Or is there a history here you're not talking about?


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

99cents said:


> One strike and you're out? Or is there a history here you're not talking about?


Like I said earlier, safety man put a bounty on all of our heads because he has beef with our safety guy.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Ozzy1990 said:


> To explain the whole thing would take a few pages. Ill try some bullet points.
> >been with another crew the whole week
> >saw original crew working in the same area during week (red tape)
> >they moved the gangbox with tools into said area
> ...


Was there a tag attached to the tape? Any tape we put up has date, reason, who put it up, contact info, and when it will be removed


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Ozzy1990 said:


> I saw the lead guy of steel erecting company along with 3-4 clients walking in the SAME area I did WITH steel swinging overhead. I pointed that out to the steward and he said "oh thats the guy from buckner, he can be in there!" I said oh I forgot the steel has the ability to think and wont ever fall on him or the client!


 We put up danger tape around energized sources all the time. We can certainly enter our own tape, because we're familiar with the hazard, and someone else can enter our tape with our permission as long as we escort them through in a way that protects them from the hazard. It sounds like that's what was happening.

But, if they were actually underneath a suspended load, I agree that's bullchit.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Ozzy1990 said:


> Yep, walked through "Danger" tape and safety man caught me. On another note I was told that I have the highest GPA in the apprenticeship (1st-5th)
> They really have over done it with the "Danger" tape (red) I haven't seen any yellow in months.


Same on all the sites I work on, you walk through the red tape you are gone. Doesn't matter if you think they over did it with the tape, it's not your tape. Though I know GC's dont always keep on top of removing the tape, I still wont cross it without permission.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Ozzy1990 said:


> To explain the whole thing would take a few pages. Ill try some bullet points.
> >been with another crew the whole week
> >saw original crew working in the same area during week (red tape)
> >they moved the gangbox with tools into said area
> ...


Missed this post, sorry. I have seen this happen to guys before, some of the "safety" guys are a complete joke. I agree it sounds a bit fishy, but the solution is simply not to cross the tape pending permission from the site super and your foreman. Those are the rules, and you knew them going in.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I always hated firing folks but you cross the red tape.... fired
Don't care if you are the Pope, violate the red tape and you are fried.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

We worked hard at landing our first REAL industrial contract and, for what they're paying us, if the safety guy told me to wear pink panties, I would hop in my truck and head straight for the lingerie store...


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## bhardman86 (Nov 23, 2011)

Did you know that there was steel swinging overhead prior to crossing the red tape? Honestly if you did -- regardless of the red tape why in the hell would you even want to be in an area that had that going on?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> I remember back when safety nazis didn't exist. You could usually count on somebody getting killed or permanently maimed on a big job site.


Yep, 1 death for every million dollars budgeted.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

chewy said:


> Yep, 1 death for every million dollars budgeted.


Yikes!! I've worked jobs with less than a thousand people with budgets exceeding a billion dollars!!

-- we'd all be dead!!! --


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

uconduit said:


> Yikes!! I've worked jobs with less than a thousand people with budgets exceeding a billion dollars!!
> 
> -- we'd all be dead!!! --


This is going back to the 20's and 30's. The golden gate bridge was the first turnaround from this thinking with safety nets and belts worn.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

chewy said:


> This is going back to the 20's and 30's. The golden gate bridge was the first turnaround from this thinking with safety nets and belts worn.


I drove over it yesterday


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I work on an industrial site with lots of red and yellow tape. Crossing red tape without permission is instant removal from the property. If you need to cross it you go and get permission or radio the appropriate person. You can't just put up red tape, you have to add a tag, permit number and contact person/radio channel. 

If it takes an extra 45 minutes to get permission, it takes 45 minutes. You still get paid.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry, Ozzy, but you sounds like one of those guys who got smoked and now you're trying to blame someone else. Nobody lifted that tape and kicked your a$$ to the other side. YOU went through that tape. If you came to me looking for a job and told me you got fired because the safety guy had a bounty out on your crew, that would be the end of the conversation. If you told me you did a stupid thing and went under the tape, lesson learned, I would keep listening to you.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

No one ever seems to wanna cross the white or magenta/yellow tape though...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Oh please. It is NOT about keeping you safe, it's about insurance claims.
> 
> I also think we've gone off the deep end with padded room job sites and lives.
> We are in an inherently dangerous trade. I am all for safety, or should I say I am not for blatant recklessness, but we are being "safetied" and ruled into a pathetic corner.


Speedy, I don't give a rats ass what the motivation is the end result is more of us get to go home without injury. 

If you want to just be mucho and say 'its a dangerous job deal with it' that is up to you. For myself I don't plan on giving myself to the company for the sake of a project.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> No,,,,,,Having someone babysit professional is dumb.


The death and injury rates to professionals absolutely prove you are wrong.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> > Speedy, I don't give a rats ass what the motivation is the end result is more of us get to go home without injury.
> 
> 
> True, but this is more about _zero tolerance_ than anything else
> ...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Ozzy1990 said:


> It was a steel erecting area but there was no steel being swung. I went back out with the steward to collect my tools (which is why I went in the area in the first place) and there I saw the lead guy of steel erecting company along with 3-4 clients walking in the SAME area I did WITH steel swinging overhead. I pointed that out to the steward and he said "oh thats the guy from buckner, he can be in there!" I said oh I forgot the steel has the ability to think and wont ever fall on him or the client!





Ozzy1990 said:


> Like I said earlier, safety man put a bounty on all of our heads because he has beef with our safety guy.



...maybe the safety guy had a target on someone with a poor attitude about safety?


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Ever worked in a open mall? All the tape/pylons in the world will not stop some fool from walking into your ladder.. (Even worse with texting so popular these days)


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Toronto Sparky said:


> Ever worked in a open mall? All the tape/pylons in the world will not stop some fool from walking into your ladder....


 Best one I've ever seen was we had to uncover a 70' shaft in the floor. We put up three layers of barricades to keep people away. Wanna guess who climbed over all the barricades and is now standing on the edge of the open shaft, looking down it? Yep: The "safety" officer.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Big John said:


> Best one I've ever seen was we had to uncover a 70' shaft in the floor. We put up three layers of barricades to keep people away. Wanna guess who climbed over all the barricades and is now standing on the edge of the open shaft, looking down it? Yep: The "safety" officer.


They are immune to any and all industrial accidents. :thumbsup:


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Most of the jobs I've been on, the ones with reputable Generals, have a very plain set of safety rules. They tell you which ones will get you removed immediately. 

The procedeure for even setting up a Red Zoned barricade has to be approved in advance, and normally all trades are notified in advance.Alternative routes and work areas are laid out. A responsible person working inside that zone is the only person who can grant you permission to violate, even temporarily, the stated prohibition for a Red Zone. 

These rules are for everyones' safety, and liability concerns/protection. You will have already reviewed and agreed to these rules prior to setting foot on the job, so a quick look in a mirror will reveal the only person who is responsible for a firing on such jobs.

Modern or more recent safety standards can sometimes seem onerous, but I for one never want to return to the good(bad) old days. There are still far too many macho bullshizz personalities remaining among the ignorant, often young guys who never saw the stuff we were forced to endure. There are more than a few on this site.Like it or not, it is moving in this direction for everyone, eventually. These ignoramuses are liabilities to their co-workers, fellow tradesmen, and their contractors, even if they do not realize or admit it.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree, safety is important and should be respected, but....I don't care what anyone here thinks, the >4' rule and tie-off is pure BS and a waste of time. Now I'm sure somebody out there has died from falling off of first step on ladder but sometimes natural selection does its job. I've found the rule to be more dangerous (in most applications) than safe.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Tying off on a ladder makes no sense.. What are you gonna tie to? The ladder?
Besides that the new rules say one is not supposed to be working off a ladder and that you must maintain three points of contact at all times.. Electrical work is hard with only one hand.. Just sayin..


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Toronto Sparky said:


> Besides that the new rules say one is not supposed to be working off a ladder and that you must maintain three points of contact at all times.. Electrical work is hard with only one hand.. Just sayin..


What code/standard states that?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Speedy, I don't give a rats ass what the motivation is the end result is more of us get to go home without injury.
> 
> If you want to just be mucho and say 'its a dangerous job deal with it' that is up to you.* For myself I don't plan on giving myself to the company for the sake of a project.*


I agree with you there Bob.


This reminds me of a story some guy told about how his company owned van was in a service center longer than it should have been so this guy bragged about how he started a fight with a guy that would have probably kicked his ass. He admitted that he could have gone to the hospital or jail for no other reason than saving his company some money. How stupid!!!


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## Gateman (Aug 22, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, safe jobs are dumb.


I'm new


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I agree with you there Bob.
> 
> 
> This reminds me of a story some guy told about how his company owned van was in a service center longer than it should have been so this guy bragged about how he started a fight with a guy that would have probably kicked his ass. He admitted that he could have gone to the hospital or jail for no other reason than saving his company some money. How stupid!!!


Yeah at that point it had become personal between me and the dealership. They got under my skin. Much like I have obviously got under yours. :laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yeah at that point it had become personal between me and the dealership. They got under my skin. Much like I have obviously got under yours. :laughing:


That was you ??? :thumbup::laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Gateman said:


> I'm new


Welcome to the site.


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## Gateman (Aug 22, 2013)

Safety is good . Just figuring out how this works


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## Gateman (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks


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## Gateman (Aug 22, 2013)

Worked as dish installer for a month .
Got great safety training don't do this don't do that and at the end of it all "don't have cancellations "total bull" the training was good though


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Speedy, I don't give a rats ass what the motivation is the end result is more of us get to go home without injury.
> 
> If you want to just be mucho and say 'its a dangerous job deal with it' that is up to you. For myself I don't plan on giving myself to the company for the sake of a project.


 
After my fall 11-12-10 my company developed a new ladder policy. Number one on the list is we don't use any other trade's ladder. We will only use our own.

*And I got my old job back starting next Wednesday.* :thumbup: Now, I just gotta get back into shape. Today I interviewed then went to a job. Freakin heat and humidity and those damn thick uniform shirts about killed me. They forget I had a heart attack while I was healing from the fall.

Whew!


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## fisstech (Feb 2, 2013)

wildleg said:


> I try to be as safe as practical, but I have to admit some of the safety stuff is absolutely ridiculous (like the jobs that don't allow knives)


working one like that right now.

no olfas allowed on site ...


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

well if you think safety rules are overwhelming your job read.

Each day we get a exclusion map of the job they dont use red tape anymore its a orange fence with a sign that gives the name of the company and a phone number on it .

Each day before any crew goes out on site they have a job box meet and the guys know were they can go and not go .


Each day each foremen fills out a job JHA hazardous analysis report each worker signs it .On it is the list of work task and hazard and how to avoid the hazard.

Gets better each area of work say you have 5 crews working in 5 different electrical rooms you need 5 different JHA's signed and in that area of work posted per electrical room so if the safety guy comes up and asked to see it it better be there .

They also ask whats the safety topic of the day to workers if they dont know the foremen gets wrote up .

One safety violation is a write up two is 3 days off with out pay three your gone never to return plus our company lets you go .


Any life safety rule broken your gone first time .
A normal safety rule just a writen report .

We must have safety glasses on all day hard hat and work gloves 
100% when you walk on site in the gate at lunch we all eat outside and must have hard hat on during lunch . 

If the area has a safety issue and its not your company and your working in that area you get writen up with the other trade .

And you must have a class and a card signed off for ladder safety now 
yes a ladder we have to go to a 2 hour class on ladders.

Our iron work above they use chain link fence and you cant enter because its installed like its a prison .

Its the insurance bonding companys who look at your safety record if your unsafe your not getting that next big job .


If you think red tape is a problem you come to my job one day !


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Sounds very similar to our sites.. we also have fall protection at 4', fall rescue plans, and a spotter, anytime someone wears a harnass. A couple sites will also make to tie off a stepladder. Meaning, the ladder itself.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

This thread reminds me why I'm in the service division. We sometimes have to deal with pita facility safety guys, but most of the time the customer doesn't care too much, they just want the job done. 

I couldn't deal with the daily bs that the construction guys have to deal with.


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## Gateman (Aug 22, 2013)

That must be very frustrating .


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## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> Oh please. It is NOT about keeping you safe, it's about insurance claims.
> 
> I also think we've gone off the deep end with padded room job sites and lives.
> We are in an inherently dangerous trade. I am all for safety, or should I say I am not for blatant recklessness, but we are being "safetied" and ruled into a pathetic corner.


Umm how do you think insurance claims come about? Hey I never got hurt today better make a claim......if it wasn't for tards acting stupid onsite there would be no need for over done safety, but as soon as someone claims they were injured they want the world handed to them. Should be we investigated your incident and we decided your too stupid to work here. Most claims are bs, I understand and feel bad for the legit guys getting hurt then not getting the support they deserve due to the 568 crybabies that showed before him.

No one thinks it can happen to them and when it does its everyone else's fault. So I have no issue with over done safety. So for someone to loose his job for ignoring the red tape tells me if he can't follow a simple rule he has obviously broke many more before.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Gateman said:


> That must be very frustrating .


Once you get used to working safe, you realize it is rather easy to be in compliance....the hardest part is usually waiting for a plant guy to get the whole LOTO process entered, approved and applied to the piece of equipment you are working on....that can take _hours _sometimes.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> Sounds very similar to our sites.. we also have fall protection at 4', fall rescue plans, and a spotter, anytime someone wears a harnass. A couple sites will also make to tie off a stepladder. Meaning, the ladder itself.



Well we dont tie off ever to a ladder we tie off to a beam or a tie off point which is rated to hold 5000 lbs capacity .

We have to tie off if were above 6 foot and not on a ladder but you dont have to tie off when your on a ladder unless your on the leading edge and subjecting yourself to a fall hazard . 


If you tie off to a ladder your not very smart and its not OSHA rule .


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## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

I would hope he meant tie the ladder off to something. .....not you to ladder


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Kryptes said:


> I would hope he meant tie the ladder off to something. .....not you to ladder


Well when you fall it makes a lot more noise so folks can find you so it is safer in that respect.


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## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

Well that is true, we did go for lunch one day and one guy didn't show up although he would come to the shack only 50% of the time so we never thought much of it. Went back to the work area 30 mins later to find his feet dangling 2' from the floor. No one heard him fall but then again he didn't exactly yell for help after his ladder kicked out.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

piperunner said:


> Well we dont tie off ever to a ladder we tie off to a beam or a tie off point which is rated to hold 5000 lbs capacity .
> 
> We have to tie off if were above 6 foot and not on a ladder but you dont have to tie off when your on a ladder unless your on the leading edge and subjecting yourself to a fall hazard .
> 
> If you tie off to a ladder your not very smart and its not OSHA rule .


Just my luck I tie off at 10 ft and my safety bungee is 15.



Kryptes said:


> Well that is true, we did go for lunch one day and one guy didn't show up although he would come to the shack only 50% of the time so we never thought much of it. Went back to the work area 30 mins later to find his feet dangling 2' from the floor. No one heard him fall but then again he didn't exactly yell for help after his ladder kicked out.


Did you find a goodbye note? :whistling2:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

LARMGUY said:


> Just my luck I tie off at 10 ft and my safety bungee is 15. ...


The typically used tie off for a harness requires the tie off point to be 18' above the lower surface for it to provide the fall protection. 
They are starting to require the retractable "yoyo" type of fall arrest around here. The will stop you within 3', but just like the standard tie off, they must be tied off above the connection point on your harness.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

piperunner said:


> Well we dont tie off ever to a ladder we tie off to a beam or a tie off point which is rated to hold 5000 lbs capacity .
> 
> We have to tie off if were above 6 foot and not on a ladder but you dont have to tie off when your on a ladder unless your on the leading edge and subjecting yourself to a fall hazard .
> 
> ...



Read my last sentence again


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The typically used tie off for a harness requires the tie off point to be 18' above the lower surface for it to provide the fall protection.
> They are starting to require the retractable "yoyo" type of fall arrest around here. The will stop you within 3', but just like the standard tie off, they must be tied off above the connection point on your harness.


We rarely use lanyards anymore. We have some really small lightweight yo-yo's that attach to the harness. So we usually carry d-rings and/or beamers to use for a tie off point


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Most job sites I have been on in recent years (have not been able to work for a few years) did not allow anyone to "work" off a ladder The Province? The rules seem some-what unclear.. Here is one.. (There are many others) 
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/hs/pdf/fs_laddersafety.pdf


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

I start another job tomorrow, as long I can avoid the cranes I should be fine.:thumbup:


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Most of the safety stuff is absolute BS. The safety guys don't even understand their own policies sometimes.

Example #1: Jobs that require you to tie off when on a ladder. In order for a harness to work, you need 16 feet of vertical space because of the length of yourself and the lanyard extending. So that means that you somehow have to find a way to tie off to something secure 16ft in the air or you will hit the ground. Well how are you supposed to get that high in the first place? What if they make you tie off and give you a false sense of security, causing you to take more risk and you fall and hit the ground? Are most safety guys even aware of this fact, or is the harness all for show?

Example #2: Warning tape. the Warning tape boundaries are not an exact science. Trades tie off caution tape to anything they can in the general area, so if there happens to be something sticking out of the ground 10 feet from where the hazard is, they will tie it off there. So if you go under the caution tape for a split second two feet in, common sense will tell you that that isn't really dangerous.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> Most of the safety stuff is absolute BS. The safety guys don't even understand their own policies sometimes.


You can argue the point, but you are just showing your ignorance ....





henderson14 said:


> Example #1: Jobs that require you to tie off when on a ladder. In order for a harness to work, you need 16 feet of vertical space because of the length of yourself and the lanyard extending. So that means that you somehow have to find a way to tie off to something secure 16ft in the air or you will hit the ground. Well how are you supposed to get that high in the first place? What if they make you tie off and give you a false sense of security, causing you to take more risk and you fall and hit the ground? Are most safety guys even aware of this fact, or is the harness all for show?


Use the right fall restraint system for the right application.

A retractable or "yoyo" will stop you within 3'.

Using a lanyard with a shock absorber that is going to allow you to bounce off the deck after a fall shows an extreme ignorance of the products available to keep you safe.


This particular yoyo...









.....it will stop you in 24"...
.....it weighs 2.5 lbs.....
.....it will save your life.

https://www.millerfallprotection.co...-retracting-lifelines/retractable-web-lanyard

*Spec Sheets 8327RWL *













henderson14 said:


> Example #2: Warning tape. the Warning tape boundaries are not an exact science. Trades tie off caution tape to anything they can in the general area, so if there happens to be something sticking out of the ground 10 feet from where the hazard is, they will tie it off there. So if you go under the caution tape for a split second two feet in, common sense will tell you that that isn't really dangerous.


Common sense tells me NOT to cross the tape - I didn't apply it, therefore I do not know the actual boundaries of the area.

A Steel T- Post...








.... driven into the ground can define an area a little better than just hanging the tape on any available object...


.....as do "police style barricades":









...and various other sorts of barriers:


















When I hear a man complaining about safety requirements, what I am hearing is that he doesn't care....about himself, the task at hand, the contractor, the client, his co-workers, his family.

A poor attitude is generally the first sign that a person will become the safety guy's topic of the day one morning.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> You can argue the point, but you are just showing your ignorance ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So whats your point smart guy? I never referenced a retractable lanyard, or the other things you posted, because they have never been used on jobs i've been on. That was my point. Most safety guys and companies are ignorant to the facts that you do need a retractable lanyard and that the danger tape is applied haphazardly to anything close by. You can post all the pictures and links you want, they are no good if they are not used on job-sites by contractors. You should re-read my post.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> You can argue the point, but you are just showing your ignorance ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So whats your point smart guy? I never referenced a retractable lanyard, or the other things you posted, because they have never been used on jobs i've been on. That was my point. Most safety guys and companies are ignorant to the facts that you do need a retractable lanyard and that the danger tape is applied haphazardly to anything close by. You can post all the pictures and links you want, they are no good if they are not used on job-sites by contractors. You should re-read my post. I'm not the safety guy or the guy making the safety policies. I don't provide the equipment.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

henderson14 said:


> So whats your point smart guy?...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> So whats your point smart guy? I never referenced a retractable lanyard, or the other things you posted, because they have never been used on jobs i've been on. That was my point. Most safety guys and companies are ignorant to the facts that you do need a retractable lanyard and that the danger tape is applied haphazardly to anything close by. You can post all the pictures and links you want, they are no good if they are not used on job-sites by contractors. You should re-read my post.


If you know better....and continue to use products that will not afford you protection.....who is at fault?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> If you know better....and continue to use products that will not afford you protection.....who is at fault?


I was pointing out the incompetence of safety professionals and construction companies in the industry. I was also pointing out the hypocrisy. 

Where did I every specify whether or not I used their products or not, and where did I make the argument about who's fault it is? The way you try to twist things, you should be a politician. Maybe I was never aware of the fall distance required fact until after YEARS in the industry. Most people in the field aren't aware of this, because they aren't paid to know. The safety guys are paid to know (its their only job!) and the construction companies have the responsibility to know. They are the ones kicking people off jobs for not being safe! 

I suppose you would take a 2 year layoff for being "difficult" on a job by refusing to work without a yoyo. We aren't allowed to bring our own equipment regardless. I guess it sounds a lot easier when your hiding behind a message board. But that wasn't my original point regardless.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I once saw a guy get fired for forgetting to lock a machine out. He had been working 14 hrs and it was an honest mistake. The bad thing is, there were 14 other locks from other peoplw on the machine . He was in zero danger....


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> I was pointing out the incompetence of safety professionals and construction companies in the industry. I was also pointing out the hypocrisy.


Why are you blaming the safety people for being incompetent and hypocritical when you claim to know better?




henderson14 said:


> Where did I every specify whether or not I used their products or not, and where did I make the argument about who's fault it is?


So it's a made up nonsensical event that never actually happened?

Gotcha!






henderson14 said:


> The way you try to twist things, you should be a politician.


I'm sorry I twisted your fictional account of an event that never occurred.
:laughing:




henderson14 said:


> Maybe I was never aware of the fall distance required fact until after YEARS in the industry.


If you are using PPE without knowing how it applies to the task you are doing, what's the point in using it?

That's hypocritical!
Well, maybe ... 



henderson14 said:


> Most people in the field aren't aware of this, because they aren't paid to know.


Are you out of your mind?
Someone needs to be paid to read the instructions that come with a piece of PPE ?.... you are already being paid by showing up for work that day.
If there are no instructions -ASK QUESTIONS!
I am not paid to know about every type of fall protection and it's limitations and applications...but I can read and I am not afraid to ask questions.
[see link below]



henderson14 said:


> The safety guys are paid to know (its their only job!) and the construction companies have the responsibility to know. They are the ones kicking people off jobs for not being safe!


So you ask - demand an answer.
If they cannot, call OSHA.



henderson14 said:


> I suppose you would take a 2 year layoff for being "difficult" on a job by refusing to work without a yoyo.


There is a difference being stupid and being difficult... [although that is suspect with dealing with you right now]..
..so rather than demand the proper PPE you would rather put your livelihood in jeopardy...as well as your own health, your co-workers, your family's financial security, etc etc etc.

Sack up and call them to the mat.
The Employer has a Duty To Provide Personal Protective Equipment and Train Each Employee




henderson14 said:


> We aren't allowed to bring our own equipment regardless.


I wouldn't want any employee to provide their own PPE....I am not about to assume the risk and liability for you selecting and using poorly maintained PPE that does not apply to task at hand....ie, RubberMaid rubber dish gloves are not suitable for handling battery cells.





henderson14 said:


> I guess it sounds a lot easier when your hiding behind a message board. But that wasn't my original point regardless.


I guess it makes more sense to just use the wrong PPE and hope you make it home so you can come back the following day and don the wrong PPE again - even when you know better and there are resources/agencies that are in place to protect you...anonymously.

*How to File a Complaint with OSHA*


but....



... it's just easier to bend over tomorrow after you've been done for a month already.
Gotcha.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> He was in zero danger....


What about the 14 others?

How would his LOTO [or lack thereof] affect other operations and personnel?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Celtic said:


> What about the 14 others?
> 
> How would his LOTO [or lack thereof] affect other operations and personnel?


By none. 14 other locks needed to be removed before the machine would start. Its not like he worked on an energized machine.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

All men working on the equipment should have a lock on it.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I once saw a guy get fired for forgetting to lock a machine out. He had been working 14 hrs and it was an honest mistake. The bad thing is, there were 14 other locks from other peoplw on the machine . He was in zero danger....


 I'm less bothered by the strict LOTO policy than I that a company would claim to be so concerned about safety but have guys engage in potentially hazardous work at the tail end of fourteen hour shifts. 

Crap like that kills me: It shifts all the burden of compliance onto the worker.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> Why are you blaming the safety people for being incompetent and hypocritical when you claim to know better?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My original quote "Most of the safety stuff is absolute BS. *The safety guys don't even understand their own policies sometimes*." I was pointing out the hypocrisy and incompetence (at their professions) of the safety programs and people. It was not a debate about the workers themselves. If you want to debate that, then quote another post or make your own post. Go back to what I just put in bold. I never mentioned the workers, only safety guys. And it is possible for a worker and a safety guy to both be incompetent in safety. They aren't mutually exclusive. But the safety is the safety guys profession. It is what he is paid to do.

Examples followed. Every job I was on that required fall protection required us to use fall protection that didn't protect us, and neither us, nor the people in charge seemed aware of it, yet they would kick people off for not wearing it. All the other nonsense you put down has nothing to do with this. Your trying to shift the blame for incompetent (at their professions) safety professionals and policies onto the workers. I mean why are the safety professionals even getting paid ????


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