# Local 134 Apprentice or railroad?



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Hello everyone, I am a 5th year apprentice in Local 134 Chicago. It seems like work is never going to be steady, every time I start to do good and make decent money I'm laid off or sitting and waiting for a job. The Journeyman book has 1,700 people out of work, and the person in the number 1 spot signed the book 3 years ago. After working for 2 small mom and pop shops I finally got my "dream" job working for one of the largest contractors in Local 134. October of last year they were in a hiring frenzy with the anticipation of "tons of work". I have been told the lots of work coming up line many times before, but this contractor seemed serious. Then I sat from right before Christmas until the beginning of February. That really was depressing, but then I worked steady from Feb till june where I sat for a few weeks. Now my shop has 100 guys sitting and the only reason I am working is because the superintendent likes to keep the apprentices working. I am a hard worker, I never say no to overtime, and I always do good work. I have recently applied to be a Diesel Electrician for Union Pacific railroad. I have a few questions and need some advice:

1. Is it wise to take a $10 an hour pay cut going from 5th year app to RR hoping that the RR will be more stable? 5th year app $38, RR $28 an hour. 38x0=0

2. Will I have trouble transferring? (both IBEW jobs) Will the apprentice school fine me? 

3. Is the rail road a more stable job? I don't mind working night shifts and never having a weekend off, I just want to provide for my family and give them stability. 

4. What would you do Facing 3 years unemployment? 

5. Im close to becoming a journeyman, changing careers now IS a gamble but so is staying in an organization that has 1,700 people unemployed.

6. What questions should I ask at the Union Pacific interview? 

Thank you for your help and advice.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I served my apprenticeship with the RR.
I was laid off very soon after toping out. So as far as secure, I am not sure.

At the RR, they use a bid system for jobs. Seniority rules in job bids. Apprentices are not on the seniority list.
We were indentured and did not have to worry about layoffs. But once you make mechanic, you go on the seniority list.

This list is system wide. Most seniority gets the best jobs and has the most security.
Be prepared to work nights with crazy days off in the beginning after topping out.
Apprentices worked Mon-Fri 8:00 - 4:00 when I was one.
Once I made mechanic, the best I could get was third shift with Tues and Weds night off. This is reality and you might be stuck in this for many years.

I have no idea concerning transferring during the apprenticeship. But I was able to freely travel with my journeyman's card to another local (construction) when I was laid off from the RR.
I can tell you the benefits are second to none and the retirement is excellent.

I would ask if my apprenticeship hours will be accepted at face value?
And what is the job outlook after you top out.
Do you know anyone at the RR? They may be able to give you a better idea concerning work.

Had I stayed on with the RR, I would be very close to retirement. I wish now I had not taken the severance package.


----------



## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

about to turn out in chi-town?

learn book two & make lots of friends with the tramping brothers.


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Go sign the books in other locals, and if you can do low voltage work, sign that book too. 

If I where you, I would finish your schooling at least. You will not get fined if you leave 137, to go to another ibew local/job either. 

A lot of guys are jumping ship to go to ATT, and comed


----------



## Natan (May 27, 2013)

mikeh32 said:


> A lot of guys are jumping ship to go to ATT, and comed


What is the pay with ATT and Comed? Is the outlook more stable, work-wise?

I guess ATT and Comed are non-Union. Can you go back eventually from non-Union to Union?


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Thank you all for the great advice. I'm going to take the railroad electrician test in a few days. I will see how it goes from there. I have heard that a lot of Local 134 members have been going to Comed and AT&T I think they are both Union jobs.


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

mikeh32 said:


> Go sign the books in other locals, and if you can do low voltage work, sign that book too.
> 
> If I where you, I would finish your schooling at least. You will not get fined if you leave 137, to go to another ibew local/job either.
> 
> A lot of guys are jumping ship to go to ATT, and comed


All of my schooling is finished, and I have more than enough hours to become a JW, I'm just waiting on my 5 years to be complete. I have the associates degree our local offers too so at least I wouldn't be leaving with nothing to show for my time as an apprentice. Traveling temporarily across the county for work sounds terrible to me, if I wanted to live like that I would have stayed in the military.


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

just make sure you get your card before you leave. 

ATT is union, and Comed is also union. Lineman local something


----------



## rufusTfirefly (Jul 19, 2013)

Atleast get your JW cert before doing anything. My local is booming right now, but when my father did apprenticeship in the 80s it was alot like your situation. He hasn't worked through the hall in over 20 years since he found a nice job outside the trade during the rough years, but has kept his ticket up. Make your own decision but don't let those 4 years be for nothing!


----------



## Natan (May 27, 2013)

rufusTfirefly said:


> My local is booming right now


What is the reason, if I may ask ?


----------



## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

I'd definitely make sure to either get your journeyman card before you leave your apprenticeship, or be damn certain you will be able to pick up where you left off with your new opportunity _before_ you take the job.

Facing 3 years unemployment!? I couldn't fathom that. I'd certainly be looking for something more secure.


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

Railroad right now is very stable. We get vacation according to years of service and a kick ass pension at the end. You do thirty years and are 60 years of age you can retire. But yes the one down fall is our wage. But the. Again it's a steady job and you will learn something new working on locomotives or in engineering.


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks Seabee! What years were you in the Navy? I was in NMCB 4 '02-'07.


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Thanks Seabee! What years were you in the Navy? I was in NMCB 4 '02-'07.


2005-2009 nmcb25


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Thanks Seabee! What years were you in the Navy? I was in NMCB 4 '02-'07.


What shop did you apply at proviso an ahhh good ole port pueneme


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Joliet, proviso wasn't hiring.


----------



## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

mikeh32 said:


> just make sure you get your card before you leave.


This :thumbsup:


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

Ok that's a nice yard brand new


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> This :thumbsup:


He will get his card when he gets to railroad.


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

Dunno how things are down there, but up here I was told, (and so far this _has_ been my experience railroading), there is the right way, the wrong way, and the railway. Like working on another planet :laughing:


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

My best long term advice? FINISH your apprenticeship first, break out, get your card, THEN change.


----------



## rufusTfirefly (Jul 19, 2013)

Natan said:


> What is the reason, if I may ask ?


A couple of big jobs going on right now in Pryor with a lot more being planned. Word is they're needing 1500 more journeymen in town by March.


----------



## Cable&Wire (Feb 17, 2014)

I've actually been out of work for 134 for a year now and looking at 2 more years if nothing picks up. I'm jumping ship to at&t at least until my # comes around at 134. Does anybody know how the transfer of locals from 134 to At&t (local 21 i think) works? or can i still be a 134 member and work for at&t? or do i have to be a local 21 member and completely transfer locals?


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

I think but don't get me wrong that AT&T does in fact have 134 members but that's prob down in the city and maybe for specialized jobs. Otherwise just get a travel card.


----------



## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

rufusTfirefly said:


> A couple of big jobs going on right now in Pryor with a lot more being planned. Word is they're needing 1500 more journeymen in town by March.


True. At PRY now. Lots of work. :thumbup:


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

I haven't checked up on this thread in a while. I was going to jump ship and become a railroad electrician. My wife was freaking out at the $28 per hour wage and I ended up getting hired as an apprentice at a new shop that seemed promising. Well things were great for a few months, I became a Local 134 journeyman! Now I have been sitting longer than I ever have before, almost 2 months, I know thats nothing compared to brothers who have been out for years. I am now seeking an in house electrician job. I have applied for a dozen jobs. I applied to be a diesel electrician for UP at the proviso yard. I know its a big pay cut but I need to provide for my family and 28 an hour with overtime is better than 43 and hour times zero hours.


----------



## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Thank you for your help and advice.


The smart thing to do would b to finish your apprenticeship and get your journyman. THEN go off and do the RR if you want.


I mean leaving in your fifth year? is like being 100 yards from the end of a marathon and stopping to go ride a rollercoaster.


----------



## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Hello everyone! I haven't been on here in a while but thought this would be a good place for some answers. I recently tested for a diesel electrician position with Union Pacific Railroad. According to the HR lady I'll be invited to an interview soon. Anyone know anything specific about the job? Hours? Management? Advancement opportunities? I'm sure I'll find out at the interview but I'm impatient. Thanks!


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes you will be working in diesel locomotives. Not to demanding as work goes but you will have bad hours and rest days prob a third shift with a Tuesday Wednesday off. It's good steady 40 hour a week work


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

I take my apprenticeship test nest week for local 134 and my son goes this week so I been doing research. I was trying to find out how long the processes takes before being placed into a class. I know the next class is July. I stumbled across this site and now am nervous. I see so many are talking about layoffs yet they are opening more classes. Makes me wonder if I will be sitting on a waiting list for a class for a long time and after I finish class will I find stable work. Any advice from people who been in my shoes? Also any tips for the test?


----------



## mainejakes (Mar 28, 2014)

well daddy, it all depends on where you are placed on the class join ranking- then you need to know how large classes are each year and how many people accept the invite once their "number" is up.

i was number 7 out of 50, but classes were only 6 each. SO i have given up hope for that year, but i got a call back before one of the 6 decided not to join.


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Fatdaddy, You will have constant work when you are an apprentice. You will learn a lot and all of your hard work will be worth college credit, 3 additional classes at Daley college and you have an associates degree. The journeyman situation right now is not that great. Shops value Journeyman who have been with them their entire apprenticeship, if you do your whole time with a shop they will keep you and layoff other people instead. You will be a "shoppie", which is a good thing. Hopefully in 5 years things will get better, they have to eventually. The test is basic knowledge of tools and paper folding, google paper folding tests. local 134 is 100% fair in hiring new apprentices. They don't even interview you since that would be a disadvantage for certain people who talk _different_. The most important thing is getting a letter of recommendation from ANYONE who is not related to you, this is worth a lot of points and most people don't think it's important.


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Fatdaddy, You will have constant work when you are an apprentice. You will learn a lot and all of your hard work will be worth college credit, 3 additional classes at Daley college and you have an associates degree. The journeyman situation right now is not that great. Shops value Journeyman who have been with them their entire apprenticeship, if you do your whole time with a shop they will keep you and layoff other people instead. You will be a "shoppie", which is a good thing. Hopefully in 5 years things will get better, they have to eventually. The test is basic knowledge of tools and paper folding, google paper folding tests. local 134 is 100% fair in hiring new apprentices. They don't even interview you since that would be a disadvantage for certain people who talk _different_. The most important thing is getting a letter of recommendation from ANYONE who is not related to you, this is worth a lot of points and most people don't think it's important.


 Thank you. I turned in a letter of recommendation from a 134 member who been with 134 for 25 years. I also turned in a letter from my parents who use to own a construction company that I worked for explaining my experience but they could not use that as proof of employment but will use it for recommendation as well.

I am almost 38 years old and I forgot a lot of math but been studying the sample book and feel comfortable. It also helped that my Highschool transcripts show my math ended in 12th grade with AP Calculus


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

After all this nonsense, hoping that I could make being a Local 134 Journeyman a viable career, I am done with construction. I have officially been offered a job with the railroad as a Diesel Electrician and I have accepted. I am very happy to begin a new chapter in my life. Thank you for all the great advice on this thread!


----------



## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> After all this nonsense, hoping that I could make being a Local 134 Journeyman a viable career, I am done with construction. I have officially been offered a job with the railroad as a Diesel Electrician and I have accepted. I am very happy to begin a new chapter in my life. Thank you for all the great advice on this thread!


I am interviewing for that exact position with Union Pacific next Monday. How was the interview?


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

The interview was not as intimidating as I thought it would be. The day starts with a safety brief and some videos. They explain how you are going to work second or third shift for several years and probably never have a weekend off. The interview is with an HR person and a manager from the shop. They are going to ask you to describe your current job specifically. Here are the questions I remember. Describe how you use blueprints. Describe how you use various meters. Do you work around heavy machinery? What would you do if you saw a coworker violating company safety rules? Why do you want to work here? Why should we hire you? Do you have experience working outside? They ask you vague simple questions and let you ramble on as long as you want. I kept the answers short and to the point. I was stammering a little because I was nervous. Go to JC pennies drop $50 bucks on a nice outfit, dress pants, dress shirt, and a tie. There were a few guys who looked like they stumbled off a construction site.


----------



## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> The interview was not as intimidating as I thought it would be. The day starts with a safety brief and some videos. They explain how you are going to work second or third shift for several years and probably never have a weekend off. The interview is with an HR person and a manager from the shop. They are going to ask you to describe your current job specifically. Here are the questions I remember. Describe how you use blueprints. Describe how you use various meters. Do you work around heavy machinery? What would you do if you saw a coworker violating company safety rules? Why do you want to work here? Why should we hire you? Do you have experience working outside? They ask you vague simple questions and let you ramble on as long as you want. I kept the answers short and to the point. I was stammering a little because I was nervous. Go to JC pennies drop $50 bucks on a nice outfit, dress pants, dress shirt, and a tie. There were a few guys who looked like they stumbled off a construction site.


Thanks a lot! What did you say about the coworker question? I'm sure they want you to rat them out huh? That question came up on the skilled craft test...


----------



## Natan (May 27, 2013)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> The test is basic knowledge of tools and paper folding, google paper folding tests.


What do you mean ? Isn't it a test of math ? 




PipeMonkey134 said:


> They don't even interview you since that would be a disadvantage for certain people who talk _different_.


Again, what do you mean ? Really no interview ?

Can you explain, please ?


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Were you ask if you had a year of "Algebra"???


----------



## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> After all this nonsense, hoping that I could make being a Local 134 Journeyman a viable career, I am done with construction. I have officially been offered a job with the railroad as a Diesel Electrician and I have accepted. I am very happy to begin a new chapter in my life. Thank you for all the great advice on this thread!


Congratulations! arty: Cool job title. 



Natan said:


> What do you mean ? Isn't it a test of math ?
> 
> Again, what do you mean ? Really no interview? Can you explain, please ?


Our apprentice applicants also have a section in their aptitude test on paper folding. It is designed to test your spatial visualization ability (mentally manipulate 2 and 3-dimensional shapes). 

If I recall correctly there were actually a couple sections with images that had to be referenced to correctly answer the question, such as if gear 1 turns clockwise which direction is gear 4 turning. There was also a section on math and another on general reading comprehension. Reminded me of the ASVAB.



Spunk#7 said:


> Were you ask if you had a year of "Algebra"???


We require applicants to submit proof of 1 year of algebra (transcript) and they must _still_ take the aptitude test.


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> After all this nonsense, hoping that I could make being a Local 134 Journeyman a viable career, I am done with construction. I have officially been offered a job with the railroad as a Diesel Electrician and I have accepted. I am very happy to begin a new chapter in my life. Thank you for all the great advice on this thread!


Congrats I just want to make it through the 5 years of apprentice so I can get the training and degree. After the first 5 years then I can try to go elsewhere if their is no work.


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

I think there is confusion here! This thread contains information about Local 134 which is a construction local AND information about becoming a Union Pacific Railroad Diesel Electrician. Local 134 (Construction) does NOT have an interview and the test is simple, you need a year of algebra. With Local 134 you are applying for an apprenticeship. I just applied to work for the railroad which required a Journeyman card or a college degree both of which I have. When I was explaining what happened on the interview I was referring to being interview by Railroad management not associated with any labor union. Local 134 (construction) has been accused of unfair hiring practices which is why they now base selection decisions solely on test results and qualifications no interview at all.


----------



## PipeMonkey134 (Sep 24, 2013)

Legacyelectric said:


> Thanks a lot! What did you say about the coworker question? I'm sure they want you to rat them out huh? That question came up on the skilled craft test...


Well I knew this was coming because I took a class on industrial organizational psychology which explained the hiring process that most companies use. They don't want you to say you would call your supervisor because someone took there safety glasses off for 30 seconds. They will know you are full of it. What I did was describe a situation that happened to me at work where a coworker was working on live switchgear with no 70e arc fault protection. Basically I said I was going to call safety if we didn't suit up and the guy knew I was right so we did the job properly and safely. Did that happen? no. Nobody at my company does anything safely or properly. I suggest you make up a scenario where there is a blatant and very dangerous situation that you correct. You are not hooked up to a polygraph so make up something. It's easier and more convincing to tell a short safety hero story then to just say I would report the situation to management.


----------



## Natan (May 27, 2013)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Local 134 (Construction) does NOT have an interview and the test is simple, you need a year of algebra.
> […]
> Local 134 (construction) has been accused of unfair hiring practices which is why they now base selection decisions solely on test results and qualifications no interview at all.


Thank you for your reply. Interesting..

All the locals that I have checked so far require a year of Algebra OR to take the NJATC online course (and test) of Algebra.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Legacyelectric said:


> Hello everyone! I haven't been on here in a while but thought this would be a good place for some answers. I recently tested for a diesel electrician position with Union Pacific Railroad. According to the HR lady I'll be invited to an interview soon. Anyone know anything specific about the job? Hours? Management? Advancement opportunities? I'm sure I'll find out at the interview but I'm impatient. Thanks!


I served my apprenticeship with Seaboard Coast Line RR. I was hired in 1972, so I am sure things are different now.
I was lucky as I had both of my in-laws working there so I was hired quickly with little in the way of obstacles.
I worked on rolling stock (passenger cars and diesel electric locomotives). I also spent time in facilities maintenance for the RR. I prefer working on the locomotives.

As an apprentice I worked Mon-fri 8:00 - 4:00 PM. When I topped out, I went to third shift and had Tues and Weds off. 
Shifts are dictated by seniority. And there is a bid system. When a job comes open, it was posted and anyone could bid on the job. The person bidding with the most seniority wins the bid and gets that job.
When you first top out, you will be at the bottom of the seniority list. So you get the least attractive shift.

The RR provides some of the very best benefits you will find. The retirement is better than most. You will not pay into SS anymore, but into the RR retirement system. 
RR retirement can be quite lucrative and many health benefits remain.

Managers at the RR in my day were not in the IBEW. They had their own union. Not sure how thats done today though.
Advancement is like any other job. Work hard, show you want more and you can move up. I will admit its easier if you know someone.

This the dirtiest job you may ever have. Greasy dirty, not construction dirty. You cannot blow off grease like you can dust. In no time you can learn to work and stay fairly clean.
There is much to learn. Reading schematics would be a big help. But you will mostly be changing brushes and doing grunt work at first.
Locomotives like airplanes must be inspected and this is another job you will do. Federal inspections that are required.
I once worked on one unit that had not been shut down since the day it was put into service. I think it was like 4-5 years. Something like that.

We had locker rooms and showers so you could clean up after work. Nice actually.
Good luck. 




PipeMonkey134 said:


> After all this nonsense, hoping that I could make being a Local 134 Journeyman a viable career, I am done with construction. I have officially been offered a job with the railroad as a Diesel Electrician and I have accepted. I am very happy to begin a new chapter in my life. Thank you for all the great advice on this thread!


Congratulations. This could be your career if you want it to be. Good luck and stay safe.


----------



## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

PipeMonkey134 said:


> Well I knew this was coming because I took a class on industrial organizational psychology which explained the hiring process that most companies use. They don't want you to say you would call your supervisor because someone took there safety glasses off for 30 seconds. They will know you are full of it. What I did was describe a situation that happened to me at work where a coworker was working on live switchgear with no 70e arc fault protection. Basically I said I was going to call safety if we didn't suit up and the guy knew I was right so we did the job properly and safely. Did that happen? no. Nobody at my company does anything safely or properly. I suggest you make up a scenario where there is a blatant and very dangerous situation that you correct. You are not hooked up to a polygraph so make up something. It's easier and more convincing to tell a short safety hero story then to just say I would report the situation to management.


Welcome to local 214. And congrats!


----------

