# Testing / ringing out CAT6



## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> Hello, electrician here
> 
> sometimes we run cat6 cable and I have the tools and ability to punch down male and female cat6 jacks
> 
> ...











Klein Tools LAN Explorer Data Cable Tester with Remote VDV526-100 - The Home Depot


This simple, compact data cable tester for RJ11, RJ12 and RJ45 terminated voice and data cables for Miswires, Open-Faults, Short-Faults and Shield. Instant LED responses indicate cable status. The test



www.homedepot.com


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

How does it know if you wired up for A or B ?

another question , if their other cables were wired using B , will the ones I’ve wired as A still work on their system ?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> How does it know if you wired up for A or B ?


Doesn’t matter as long is the pairs ring the same


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Slay301 said:


> Doesn’t matter as long is the pairs ring the same


That’s just the cheap one it doesn’t check bear end cross talk or map the cable you could spend thousands on a meter like that. This just sHows if it’s wired correctly and not shorted


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Slay301 said:


> Doesn’t matter as long is the pairs ring the same


That’s what I thought , TY


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Also if your making up rj45 make sure the pin is facing away from you


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

But what I’m asking is , if I don’t wire it the same way as their other cables , will it cause problems in the router/switch


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Slay301 said:


> Also if your making up rj45 make sure the pin is facing away from you


I don’t know that this means , but I have a Klein compression cut off tool , and I follow the picture on the tool


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> But what I’m asking is , if I don’t wire it the same way as their other cables , will it cause problems in the router/switch


95% of the time you are using B. And I’ve never had that problem but assignably as long as both ends
Of the cable you terminated it shouldn’t matter.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> But what I’m asking is , if I don’t wire it the same way as their other cables , will it cause problems in the router/switch


Baby steps. Just make each cable the same polarity.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> I don’t know that this means , but I have a Klein compression cut off tool , and I follow the picture on the tool


The little relaease pin to plug and unplug should be facing away from you when you go to put the wires in the rj45. But also if you untwist them to much you will have signal problems


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Platinum Tools EZ-RJ45 Cat 6 Connector and Strain Relief Combo Kit (50-Pieces)


Buy Platinum Tools EZ-RJ45 Cat 6 Connector and Strain Relief Combo Kit (50-Pieces) featuring Terminate Cat 6 Cables, Pass Thru Hole Design, Strain Reliefs Included, Prevents Cable Bending, Meets Category 6 Compliance, Solid and Stranded Wire Compatible, UL and RoHS Compliant. Review Platinum...




www.bhphotovideo.com





These take a special crimper but a good way for rookies to term rj45s correctly


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Slay301 said:


> Platinum Tools EZ-RJ45 Cat 6 Connector and Strain Relief Combo Kit (50-Pieces)
> 
> 
> Buy Platinum Tools EZ-RJ45 Cat 6 Connector and Strain Relief Combo Kit (50-Pieces) featuring Terminate Cat 6 Cables, Pass Thru Hole Design, Strain Reliefs Included, Prevents Cable Bending, Meets Category 6 Compliance, Solid and Stranded Wire Compatible, UL and RoHS Compliant. Review Platinum...
> ...


How does that work ?

Im pretty sure that’s what Ihave , minus the strain relief


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> How does that work ?
> 
> Im pretty sure that’s what Ihave , minus the strain relief


The conductors stick through the end of the rj45 then you can check your colors befor you crimp and the crimper crimps and cuts off the wires


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

_Klein Tools VDV226-110 Ratcheting Modular Cable Crimper / Wire Stripper / Wire Cutter, for RJ11/RJ12 Standard and RJ45 Pass-Thru Connectors https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076MGPQZ...abc_SFDBEJFBS1MSDNZQES55?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1_

This is what I have


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I think the problem is you didn't bend an offset to that box 

And the tyrap needs to be cut flush ... that's worse than not lining up the screws on a faceplate!


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

emtnut said:


> I think the problem is you didn't bend an offset to that box


You know as well as I do , offsets on 1/2” pipe are not real

try and change my mind

if anything , it makes for a smoother pull 🤪


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

mpcxl said:


> You know as well as I do , offsets on 1/2” pipe are not real
> 
> try and change my mind


Well, it's data so .... 

As mentioned, B or A won't make a difference.
Possibly the wiring at the jack is wrong, bad connection, or the cable is bad


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

emtnut said:


> Well, it's data so ....
> 
> As mentioned, B or A won't make a difference.
> Possibly the wiring at the jack is wrong, bad connection, or the cable is bad


Yeah. I need special tools to troubleshoot data

if I just go ahead and redo all the connectors, I’m wasting time. I need to know what’s good and what’s bad

if it was electrical , and I had a problem on a circuit , I wouldn’t just go on and replace everything. I need a process of elimination


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

mpcxl said:


> Yeah. I need special tools to troubleshoot data
> 
> if I just go ahead and redo all the connectors, I’m wasting time. I need to know what’s good and what’s bad
> 
> if it was electrical , and I had a problem on a circuit , I wouldn’t just go on and replace everything. I need a process of elimination


Ya just get that mapper I showed you and test them all


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> Yeah. I need special tools to troubleshoot data
> 
> if I just go ahead and redo all the connectors, I’m wasting time. I need to know what’s good and what’s bad
> 
> if it was electrical , and I had a problem on a circuit , I wouldn’t just go on and replace everything. I need a process of elimination


To be fair, if youre installing lv, you should be testing it before completion and exiting the site


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Majewski said:


> To be fair, if youre installing lv, you should be testing it before completion and exiting the site


I work for a jabroni


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> I work for a jabroni


Thats so frustrating! So then you’re entertaining buying testing equipment outta pocket arent u?


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

Majewski said:


> To be fair, if youre installing lv, you should be testing it before completion and exiting the site


P.s. i hope you are using pass thrus. You have someone to help you learn. You need a toner that tells you pass or fail. This is for cat wires. If you need rg6 terminations, always strip center out 2mm longer 'for stab connection' < trust me. You also need 1 phone a friend card.


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

Majewski said:


> Thats so frustrating! So then you’re entertaining buying testing equipment outta pocket arent u?


Do you even have tools?


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

And yes, if you have your hands near the termination location, you better damn well have the tools & knowledge to use them! It's low voltage communication wire for christ sake! 

SOMEONE COULD GET KILLED


One bad piece of information because of your incorrect landing of the wires, could really jeopardize national security


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Electrician Talk







www.electriciantalk.com





Might have something to do with:

I’ve decided I’m gonna hack my way using MC and emt for data drops. *iDGAf*

it’s gonna look like hell regardless

Looks like you met your expectations.
Blaming it on the boss is just classic.


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Freaks come out at night. Yeah. I don’t need this ****


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> Freaks come out at night. Yeah. I don’t need this ****


Nah we’re always out


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Well, it's data so ....
> 
> As mentioned, B or A won't make a difference.
> Possibly the wiring at the jack is wrong, bad connection, or the cable is bad


That's actually not completely true. You can often times get away with just making the pinout the same on both ends but that's not good. The TIA/EIA 568A is based on the old belcore spec for RJ11 where pins 1,4 were OW/WO and 2,3 were BW/WB. now, in cat5/cat6 each pair has a slightly different twist rate to avoid cosstalk. blue and orange are the tightest twist rates and the higher the twist rate, the better the error rejection. in 100 based T systems, only pins 1,2,4,5 are used and in 568A the looser twist green pair is on pins 1,2 therefor 568B

If you make one end up A and the other B, you get a "crossover cable" or "null modem cable" and they are used, some NICs can autocorrect for this but not all and your error rejection will never very good as the new pairs are not twisted tip and ring.

Stick with 568B and use a real cat5 tester.
I've been using one of these for years, it's still my backup it's a great tester








JDSU NT800 LanScaper PRO Network Tester (USED) | eBay


Condition is "Used". What you see in pictures is what you get.



www.ebay.com





^^edit^^ don't buy that one unless you can find a dongle, you need the dongle to test with it

I've since upgraded to one of these, it has a sharp learning curve but I've come to really like it. It's not as sturdy as the JDSU or a fluke but it works really well. can even tone out cables that patched into a live switch and can record results.

AIVO-70A4K - Avycon 7\x22 All-In-One Network And Camera Tester - ADI now quite a bit less than I paid



if a customer requires certification, I rent a fluke and charge handsomely.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

mpcxl said:


> I don’t know that this means , but I have a Klein compression cut off tool , and I follow the picture on the tool



there is a clip that holds the jack in palace, hold the clip away from you and feed the cable from the bottom every time. 

If your tester will do cable length, you can easily test to see which end has an open crimp because you will find a pair with a length of 0 feet, that's the side you need to redo


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## ScooterMcGavin (Jan 24, 2011)

This is why we never ever terminate RJ-45’s onto cable. Just too many issues. We always terminate on female jacks and then run short jumpers. The factory jumpers are just so much more superior and forgiving with the stranded wire.


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

scameron81 said:


> This is why we never ever terminate RJ-45’s onto cable. Just too many issues. We always terminate on female jacks and then run short jumpers. The factory jumpers are just so much more superior and forgiving with the stranded wire.


I just did a hubbell system came with different lengths of watt stopper 1 out of 50 was bad. I agree to some point. Its something you need to know, correctly. Blows my mind when i meet tenured jmen that never touched the stuff. Because they never wanted to do it, or it aint their job.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

This whole CATlatest thing is a huge scam as far as I'm concerned. You have insulated copper conductors forming twisted pairs. The same copper conductors in CATwhatever. The only difference is this year with the new CAT27 super cable, we've found that by adding an extra .003729 of a twist per 1000 meters on the orange pair we've vastly improved performance.

Scam I say.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

joe-nwt said:


> This whole CATlatest thing is a huge scam as far as I'm concerned. You have insulated copper conductors forming twisted pairs. The same copper conductors in CATwhatever. The only difference is this year with the new CAT27 super cable, we've found that by adding an extra .003729 of a twist per 1000 meters on the orange pair we've vastly improved performance.
> 
> Scam I say.


Like many other keeping up with the joneseseses thingys


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

I love this site


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

taglicious said:


> I love this site


I love lamp


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Majewski said:


> I love lamp


Lamp= d i * *ks


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

joe-nwt said:


> This whole CATlatest thing is a huge scam as far as I'm concerned. You have insulated copper conductors forming twisted pairs. The same copper conductors in CATwhatever. The only difference is this year with the new CAT27 super cable, we've found that by adding an extra .003729 of a twist per 1000 meters on the orange pair we've vastly improved performance.
> 
> Scam I say.


Never have seen a problem on 10Gb switches with good ol' regular Cat 5.
That was at traffic, and we had over 300 Camera feeds, 1/2 of them broadcast quality on fiber (Mpeg-2 for the techie guys here).

I guess if you're running 1000's of the latest HD cameras in a casino, mebbe it's worth going Cat 6 if they are trunked


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Never have seen a problem on 10Gb switches with good ol' regular Cat 5.
> That was at traffic, and we had over 300 Camera feeds, 1/2 of them broadcast quality on fiber (Mpeg-2 for the techie guys here).
> *
> I guess if you're running 1000's of the latest HD cameras in a casino, mebbe it's worth going Cat 6 if they are trunked*



Not even then. on a switch, each port is it’s own collision domaine. Perhaps CAT6 for the backbone but the cost is very close to just run fiber.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

five.five-six said:


> Not even then. on a switch, each port is it’s own collision domaine. Perhaps CAT6 for the backbone but the cost is very close to just run fiber.


Ooooo well i dont have the tools for fiber


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

scameron81 said:


> This is why we never ever terminate RJ-45’s onto cable. Just too many issues. We always terminate on female jacks and then run short jumpers. The factory jumpers are just so much more superior and forgiving with the stranded wire.


But there is still room for error punching down females


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Majewski said:


> I love lamp


Do you really love lamp ? Or are you just saying that ?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> Do you really love lamp ? Or are you just saying that ?


I….. i…. Love lamp.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

emtnut said:


> Never have seen a problem on 10Gb switches with good ol' regular Cat 5.
> That was at traffic, and we had over 300 Camera feeds, 1/2 of them broadcast quality on fiber (Mpeg-2 for the techie guys here).
> 
> I guess if you're running 1000's of the latest HD cameras in a casino, mebbe it's worth going Cat 6 if they are trunked


I don't even pretend to know what trunked means or even what the real world difference is between the various Cat cables is. All I know is copper and insulation can only be configured so many ways. Why didn't they jump straight to cat6 right off the get go and why they have to be spaced out by several years?

I will say the feed thru crystals are the best thing that ever happened for aging eyes.


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

joe-nwt said:


> I don't even pretend to know what trunked means or even what the real world difference is between the various Cat cables is. All I know is copper and insulation can only be configured so many ways. Why didn't they jump straight to cat6 right off the get go and why they have to be spaced out by several years?
> 
> I will say the feed thru crystals are the best thing that ever happened for aging eyes.


Most recent thing I’ve heard from a low tech / data wire guy is , cat5e and cat6 are basically the same thing


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> Most recent thing I’ve heard from a low tech / data wire guy is , cat5e and cat6 are basically the same thing


Different sizes. Different transfer speeds. Different amperages.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Majewski said:


> Ooooo well i dont have the tools for fiber


Fiber termination set runs about $2k, or you can order fiber built to length.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

five.five-six said:


> Fiber termination set runs about $2k, or you can order fiber built to length.


Exactly.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

five.five-six said:


> Fiber termination set runs about $2k, or you can order fiber built to length.


Has anybody used the snap on fiber connectors. Come with a pre polished piece for the connectors. You just cleave and strip the fiber, insert it into the connector and crimp it on basically. I've never done anything fiber but I watched a few videos and they looked pretty slick. Didn't know if they were really reliable enough for professional work though, or if the traditional heat fuse and polishing routine was still the best.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

mburtis said:


> Has anybody used the snap on fiber connectors. Come with a pre polished piece for the connectors. You just cleave and strip the fiber, insert it into the connector and crimp it on basically. I've never done anything fiber but I watched a few videos and they looked pretty slick. Didn't know if they were really reliable enough for professional work though, or if the traditional heat fuse and polishing routine was still the best.


no not yet.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

mburtis said:


> Has anybody used the snap on fiber connectors. Come with a pre polished piece for the connectors. You just cleave and strip the fiber, insert it into the connector and crimp it on basically. I've never done anything fiber but I watched a few videos and they looked pretty slick. Didn't know if they were really reliable enough for professional work though, or if the traditional heat fuse and polishing routine was still the best.


I’ve done bunches of them.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

mburtis said:


> Has anybody used the snap on fiber connectors. Come with a pre polished piece for the connectors. You just cleave and strip the fiber, insert it into the connector and crimp it on basically. I've never done anything fiber but I watched a few videos and they looked pretty slick. Didn't know if they were really reliable enough for professional work though, or if the traditional heat fuse and polishing routine was still the best.


You double your losses since effectively you have an extra joint and they are very expensive to the point where paying someone to do terminations is cheaper.

Nobody I know does fusion terminations anymore except utilities that fuse cables together (mechanical splices for everyone else). It’s all cold processes…epoxies now. It’s so simple and cheap and fast.

But with any method there is a lot of skill involved. Unless you are doing fiber all the times subcontract it. If you do fiber all the time you won’t need to watch YouTube videos, just watch your fiber techs,


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

I doubt I'll ever have a need to mess with fiber and if I do ill probably just buy a pre-made cable. I just like to research and explore various topics.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

With out having a way to test the terminations and cable you are are out of luck. I have the fluke ms2-100 that gives a distance to fault which is useful as it tells you which end you have a bad termination. After doing hundred of terminations i still would not fell comfortable installing a cable then walking off with out testing especially after having to replace my crimper after it got really dodgy on pin 2. 

As for fiber i just had a 1200' run installed 12 strand single mode and the cost was surprisingly cheap. 4 guys had it pulled, terminated and tested in under 4 hours. I can still remember the old days when it was a hr a end and pulling fiber was a nightmare.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

mpcxl said:


> Most recent thing I’ve heard from a low tech / data wire guy is , cat5e and cat6 are basically the same thing


I think there is actually a one point wire gauge difference. 23 vs 24.
our IT guy said he couldn't get our cameras to work because we used 5E. reInstalled 6E. not 6 but enhanced 6. Ahole just get cheaper cameras. I've talked with other security people since then not one agreed.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

CAT5e maximum bandwith is 100 Mhz and up to 1000 Mbps, CAT6 Max is 250 Mhz and 10 Gbps. CAT6 allows for much faster speeds.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Majewski said:


> I….. i…. Love lamp.














And also:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

drsparky said:


> CAT5e maximum bandwith is 100 Mhz and up to 1000 Mbps, CAT6 Max is 250 Mhz and 10 Gbps. CAT6 allows for much faster speeds.


IOW, If I need more than 58 Full bandwidth , uncompressed HD cameras all on the same cable, I should use Cat6 then
*edit--- I did that for a 2MP camera, would be closer to 30 4MP cams all on the same cable.
RS-232 has a limit of 50', but we had runs over 300' with no problems on our OLD scada systems. So, you could probably still push even more thru Cat5.

No wonder everyone is going Cat 6 

Never used Cat6, but I thought it was sheilded and would work better in noisy environments.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

emtnut said:


> IOW, If I need more than 58 Full bandwidth , uncompressed HD cameras all on the same cable, I should use Cat6 then
> 
> No wonder everyone is going Cat 6
> 
> Never used Cat6, but I thought it was sheilded and would work better in noisy environments.


Cat 6 is avaiable shielded and unshielded. The pairs are twisted tighter and should offer a little more noise rejection. Some have a little plastic barrier inside separating the pairs to reduce crosstalk. Some of it looks and feels an awful lot like cat 5.


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

emtnut said:


> ...' sheilded and would work better in noisy environments.'


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## MikeWhitfield (Aug 1, 2011)

five.five-six said:


> That's actually not completely true. You can often times get away with just making the pinout the same on both ends but that's not good. The TIA/EIA 568A is based on the old belcore spec for RJ11 where pins 1,4 were OW/WO and 2,3 were BW/WB. now, in cat5/cat6 each pair has a slightly different twist rate to avoid cosstalk. blue and orange are the tightest twist rates and the higher the twist rate, the better the error rejection. in 100 based T systems, only pins 1,2,4,5 are used and in 568A the looser twist green pair is on pins 1,2 therefor 568B
> 
> If you make one end up A and the other B, you get a "crossover cable" or "null modem cable" and they are used, some NICs can autocorrect for this but not all and your error rejection will never very good as the new pairs are not twisted tip and ring.
> 
> ...


This, exactly, and well said. 

There IS a speed differential, even though technically any consistent pairing of wires will "work" and show correct continuity. Even worse from the contractor's standpoint, terminating to 'A' (or to no standard) will result in the client not accepting the installation as tested with his sophisticated meter, forcing you to re-terminate all the cables to get paid. It's almost always 'B' but get it in writing up front.


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## MikeWhitfield (Aug 1, 2011)

farmantenna said:


> I think there is actually a one point wire gauge difference. 23 vs 24.
> our IT guy said he couldn't get our cameras to work because we used 5E. reInstalled 6E. not 6 but enhanced 6. Ahole just get cheaper cameras. I've talked with other security people since then not one agreed.


I think the only way that any common camera wouldn't work on CAT5E would be one drawing maximum POE power (e.g. an exterior PTZ with heater, quad imager camera with heater) at near (or over) maximum length. At that point, the larger copper of premium CAT6 or even CAT6A might be needed for voltage drop. I always push quality CAT6 cables for future-proofing but I'll be amazed if within the next twenty years anyone makes commercial cameras that actually need CAT6 bandwidth. Single cameras with four 8MP imagers don't max out a CAT5E bandwidth, in part because on-board compression algorithm development is outpacing imager complexity adoption. That said, I've run into some IT guys who insisted on CAT6 for camera runs or even for everything. I prefer to start at CAT6 (twin CAT6A for wifi public access points) and let the client economize if they desire. Hell, I'll happily specify CAT8A as long as they ask up front - it's not my money and the client deserves the installation they're willing to pay for.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

I haven’t read every post in this thread so forgive me if I am repeating something but isn’t it as simple as using a tester like ths or equal?


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## taglicious (Feb 8, 2020)

MikeWhitfield said:


> I think the only way that any common camera wouldn't work on CAT5E would be one drawing maximum POE power (e.g. an exterior PTZ with heater, quad imager camera with heater) at near (or over) maximum length. At that point, the larger copper of premium CAT6 or even CAT6A might be needed for voltage drop. I always push quality CAT6 cables for future-proofing but I'll be amazed if within the next twenty years anyone makes commercial cameras that actually need CAT6 bandwidth. Single cameras with four 8MP imagers don't max out a CAT5E bandwidth, in part because on-board compression algorithm development is outpacing imager complexity adoption. That said, I've run into some IT guys who insisted on CAT6 for camera runs or even for everything. I prefer to start at CAT6 (twin CAT6A for wifi public access points) and let the client economize if they desire. Hell, I'll happily specify CAT8A as long as they ask up front - it's not my money and the client deserves the installation they're willing to pay for.


The last cameras i dealt with were plug & play rg6 with 18/2. Pretty sweet setup. Had to get with North coast to run my own for length and terminate on 4 of the 12 cameras, but I liked the thought of running all that together.


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## danielplace1962 (Mar 24, 2014)

Didn't read all of the posts so excuse me if repeating what may have already been said. 

The reason the tester doesn't matter if A or B is similar reasons that it doesn't matter how you wired the pairs as long as the same pairs are done the same way at each end. It tests that any given pair makes it to the other end as a pair wired similarly on each end.

You could make up your own way of wiring them and as long as both ends are the same the equipment will not know either. Every cable in same equipment could be different as long as ends of each one are wired identically. 

I don't really mean any pair anywhere but any pair where any pair is meant to be. You can't cross them around of course.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

danielplace1962 said:


> Didn't read all of the posts so excuse me if repeating what may have already been said.
> 
> The reason the tester doesn't matter if A or B is similar reasons that it doesn't matter how you wired the pairs as long as the same pairs are done the same way at each end. It tests that any given pair makes it to the other end as a pair wired similarly on each end.
> 
> ...


No, each colored pair has a different twist rate to prevent cross talk. It may work for slow speed but with the latest high speed I will not work. CAT 8 is out there now for 40GBASET expensive but super F,,,in fast.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

drsparky said:


> No, each colored pair has a different twist rate to prevent cross talk. It may work for slow speed but with the latest high speed I will not work. CAT 8 is out there now for 40GBASET expensive but super F,,,in fast.


You are correct, tip and ring of each pair must be twisted or you might as well run sprinkler wire. 

I have not seen CAT8 specifications but I have seen CAT7 wire specification, I have not seen a specified TIA or EIA CAT7 connector though. The cost and distance limitations (I’m going from e memory, but CAT7 is only good for 40M) make even multimode simplex single strand with local power a better alternative than CAT7 in almost any application. 

The ONLY time I have seen a use for CAT7 was to vertically stack layer 3 switches on different floors and that’s only because the cost of the proprietary SFPs for those switches were prohibitively expensive. We used CAT6A instead of CAT7 because of price and availability. Also because there was no specified termination for CAT7, I would not guarantee throughput.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

drsparky said:


> No, each colored pair has a different twist rate to prevent cross talk. It may work for slow speed but with the latest high speed I will not work. CAT 8 is out there now for 40GBASET expensive but super F,,,in fast.


i dont even have equipment set up to take 7 let alone 8. tech moves so damn fast. i still feel like im using high tech next gen chit with my cat6 lol


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Majewski said:


> i dont even have equipment set up to take 7 let alone 8. tech moves so damn fast. i still feel like im using high tech next gen chit with my cat6 lol


I almost always run CAT5, there is not much need for CAT6 outside of backbone.


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## Racerx (Nov 7, 2019)

mpcxl said:


> How does it know if you wired up for A or B ?
> 
> another question , if their other cables were wired using B , will the ones I’ve wired as A still work on their system ?


No, A can not communicate with B and B can not communicate with A. If the clients patch panel is punched down A all jumper cables should match.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Racerx said:


> No, A can not communicate with B and B can not communicate with A. If the clients patch panel is punched down A all jumper cables should match.


??? As long as the same wire goes to the same pin on both ends, how could it not communicate? It may not communicate optimally but it should still work.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

joe-nwt said:


> ??? As long as the same wire goes to the same pin on both ends, how could it not communicate? It may not communicate optimally but it should still work.


568A and 568B still pair the same pins, it’s just that 568B has a tighter twist rate on pair 3,6.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

five.five-six said:


> 568A and 568B still pair the same pins, it’s just that 568B has a tighter twist rate on pair 3,6.


Sure. But that doesn't mean a B patch cord will not work on an A system.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have terminated tested and certified thousands of category 5, 5e, and 6 UTP cables terminated with 568B and 568A pinouts, and most are currently running gigabit ethernet with no issues. I am afraid that I am very skeptical there's anything in the Category 5, 5e, or 6 standards that specifies higher performance or different construction for some of the pairs, maybe cat 6a does but I am skeptical of that too. The category standards are performance standards and are not specific to any one network technology, these days it's almost all ethernet but in the 90s there were other network technologies in use with UTP. Cable manufacturers have different They specify the frequency at which performance must be measured and the network technologies (mainly ethernet) are designed for cable with these performance characteristics. The testers test for crosstalk between all pairs, not just the orange and green, and calculate the summed crosstalk from all pairs. The common gigabit, 1000baseT, uses all four pairs. If you terminated pairs on different pins, switching colors but not splitting pairs, it would still pass.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I have CAT type Tom, running my computer.




  








IMG_0203 (1).jpg




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drsparky


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Dec 23, 2021


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

mpcxl said:


> Hello, electrician here
> 
> sometimes we run cat6 cable and I have the tools and ability to punch down male and female cat6 jacks
> 
> ...


Klein Tools Scout Pro 3 Tester with Locator Remote Kit-VDV501-852 - The Home Depot


I like this tester....it has length option so you can see if you over 300' for POE.


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## R777V (May 16, 2016)

mpcxl said:


> Most recent thing I’ve heard from a low tech / data wire guy is , cat5e and cat6 are basically the same thing


They are not, Cat 6 has a plastic spacer for the higher speeds preventing crosstalk as speed increases. Also I believe the wire gauge is heavier for passing more bandwidth. A lot of the 6 we use I believe claims to be 6a (augmented) but that standard isn’t quite established yet, and most make the claim but no one’s being held to the standard YET. We’re getting there I’m sure soon though. 5e is probably good enough but, since 6 is the new standard most would say put in the 6 to future proof. I usually run what’s on the truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

R777V said:


> They are not, Cat 6 has a plastic spacer for the higher speeds preventing crosstalk as speed increases. Also I believe the wire gauge is heavier for passing more bandwidth. A lot of the 6 we use I believe claims to be 6a (augmented) but that standard isn’t quite established yet, and most make the claim but no one’s being held to the standard YET. We’re getting there I’m sure soon though. 5e is probably good enough but, since 6 is the new standard most would say put in the 6 to future proof. I usually run what’s on the truck.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While I agree somewhat from a practical point of view it makes NO difference.

CAT 5E is rated 100 MHz for 3 dB bandwidth,

CAT 6 is 250 MHz. This is the practical limit of both the RJ-45 connector and twisted pair cabling. CAT 7 goes to mini coax and sneaks extra conductors in.

BUT

Copper Ethernet comes in basically 4 “flavors”: 10 Mbps, 100 Mbps, 1000 Mbps, and 10,000 Mbps. All use tricks to shape the signal to where the first three easily fit in 100 MHz of bandwidth at up to 100 meters. So whether you use CAT 5E or 6 doesn’t matter. With 10GBASE-T the actual bandwidth is 80 MHz… But this is where we go off the rails a bit. The actual bandwidth limit isn’t the cable itself or the RJ-45 which can go to 500 MHz. It’s more of a TIA standards issue. It is more of a construction issue than materials. TIA addresses NEXT and FEXT (cross talk) but not Alien NEXT (adjacent channel crosstalk). 10GBASE-T is very sensitive to cross talk issues because we are coding more bits per symbol to keep bandwidth down. The result is that YMMV all over the place depending on build quality. Generally up to 30 meters is fine on either CAT 5E or 6. I’ve seen claims of 45-65 meters but again it varies all over the place. I’ve seen plenty or both patch cables and permanent installs of both that just mysteriously don’t work or work better than expected. My feeling is this is OK within a rack bug just too marginal outside if a short distance within a room. CAT 6A or 7 works just fine up to a full 100 meters but this is very different cable and field termination especially with CAT 7 is not exactly straightforward. In my mind this is not really a solved problem. Fiber side steps it and isn’t much different price wise.

More recently 2.5 Gbps and 5 Gbps have been defined as fall backs for 10 Gbps, which are fully capable of working on the 5E and 6 bandwidth as-is. So finally we have a legitimate “CAT 6” speed of 5 GBps.

So coming full circle CAT 6 is like a solution looking for a problem. It’s not necessary for up to 2.5 GBps and questionable with 10 GBps just as much as CAT 5E is. Both work at short distances and both have issues at moderate distances where fiber already makes more sense. Even with the 2.5 and 5 Gbps fall backs my personal opinion is CAT 6 is still a solution looking for a problem. Fiber needs no such tricks and neither does 6A or 7. CAT 6 is not really future proofing, it’s more like a stop gap.

Hence the reason I see little incentive to install CAT 6. It’s an orphan,


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## BleedingLungsMurphy (10 mo ago)

mpcxl said:


> apparently , customer cannot get a signal thru some of the cables I ran


Contract someone with experience doing low voltage work then. The meter is a few thousand and isn't worth it for the odd job. Honestly it's a lot more than some guys realize and a lot of offices will require their network to be set up properly for transfering data on their local network. One bad cable can really **** with their workflow.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I bought a
VDV Scout® Pro 2 - VDV501-098 that I bought. Brand new. Will that help you? Shipping and a small price. Will be a start to organizing my basement.


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## Oh_No_Blo_No (10 mo ago)

mpcxl said:


> How does it know if you wired up for A or B ?
> 
> another question , if their other cables were wired using B , will the ones I’ve wired as A still work on their system ?


Hello, so industry standard is B, and if one side of the cable is A and the Other side of the cable is B they will be swapped at probably the green and orange depending on what you're looking at. But that tester that he provided above should help you tell what's working right.


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