# Do I need a receptacle here?



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm not an expert, but it looks like a pass to me (would be nice to see the entire floor plan though cause I can't visualize the rest of the room)


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've been down exactly this road. Ended up with two sets of receptacles, one to serve the bar, and the ones down low to satisfy the room receptacle requirements. Check out 210.52(A) specifically the definition of "wall space" in (A)(2)(3):


> The space afforded by ﬁxed room dividers, such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Does the peninsula divide two rooms? Kitchen and dining room for example. If so, 210.52 (2)(3) applies


> The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as
> freestanding bar-type counters or railings


Which means yes. If it's surrounded by the kitchen, and not a room divider, it passes.

On a unrelated not, based on the definition of a peninsula you do not need a receptacle at the end.
210.52(C)(3)


> Peninsular Countertop Spaces. At least one receptacle
> outlet shall be installed at each peninsular countertop
> space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater
> and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A
> ...


You only need *one* receptacle. The recept. in your drawing where the peninsula leaves the adjoining wall, complies. This is not considered a "wall countertop" 210.52(C)(1)


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## Dash Dingo (Mar 3, 2012)

Mshow1323 said:


> Does the peninsula divide two rooms? Kitchen and dining room for example. If so, 210.52 (2)(3) applies Which means yes. If it's surrounded by the kitchen, and not a room divider, it passes. On a unrelated not, based on the definition of a peninsula you do not need a receptacle at the end. 210.52(C)(3) You only need one receptacle. The recept. in your drawing where the peninsula leaves the adjoining wall, complies. This is not considered a "wall countertop" 210.52(C)(1)


So your saying I don't even need the receptacle on the end of the peninsula? The one on the counter top would suffice?
The recep on the end is on the print.

And yes the peninsula would separate the kitchen and dinette.

I have 40 units to do like this and I'm trying to avoid cutting in two outlets on the back of the cabinet


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I know its not much help since I have to follow the CEC and not the NEC but what you have sketched is certainly a pass in this jurisdiction.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Rollie, what's the difference? You guys don't have the same requirements for wall receptacles?


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Dash Dingo said:


> So your saying I don't even need the receptacle on the end of the peninsula? The one on the counter top would suffice?
> The recep on the end is on the print.
> 
> And yes the peninsula would separate the kitchen and dinette.
> ...


Yes. I would have one at your "?" and eliminate the receptacle on the end. And...if the peninsula did not have an overhang, I would think about popping in a floor receptacle instead, but wih 40 units the floor recep. Is not as cost effective.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Big John said:


> Rollie, what's the difference? You guys don't have the same requirements for wall receptacles?


I'm pretty sure our code reads differently.

Here..........this explains our spacing requirements as per the CEC.

*26-712 Receptacles for dwelling units​*​​​​(see Appendices B and G)​
This Rule applies to receptacles for dwelling units (including single dwellings) as follows:
(a) except as otherwise provided for in this Code, in dwelling units duplex receptacles shall be installed in the
finished walls of every room or area, other than kitchens, bathrooms, hallways, laundry rooms, water closet
rooms, utility rooms, or closets, so that no point along the floor line of any usable wall space is more than
1.8 m horizontally from a receptacle in that or an adjoining space, such distance being measured along the
floor line of the wall spaces involved;
(b) at least one duplex receptacle shall be provided in each area, such as a balcony or porch, that is not
classified as a finished room or area in accordance with Item (a);
(c) the usable wall space referred to in Item (a) shall include a wall space 900 mm or more in width but shall
not include doorways, areas occupied by a door when fully opened, windows that extend to the floor,
fireplaces, or other permanent installations that would limit the use of the wall space;
(d) in dwelling units there shall be installed in each kitchen
(i) one receptacle for each refrigerator;
(ii) where a gas supply piping or a gas connection outlet has been provided for a free-standing gas
range, one receptacle behind the intended gas range location not more than 130 mm from the floor
and as near midpoint as is practicable, measured along the floor line of the wall space intended for
the gas range;
(iii) a sufficient number of receptacles (5-15R split or 5-20R) along the wall at counter work surfaces
(excluding sinks, built-in equipment, and isolated work surfaces less than 300 mm long at the wall
line) so that no point along the wall line is more than 900 mm from a receptacle measured
horizontally along the wall line;
(iv) at least one receptacle (5-15R split or 5-20R) installed at each permanently fixed island counter space
with a continuous long dimension of 600 mm or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm or
greater;
(v) at least one receptacle (5-15R split or 5-20R) installed at each peninsular counter space with a
continuous long dimension of 600 mm or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm or greater; and
(vi) at least one duplex receptacle in a dining area forming part of a kitchen;
(e) the receptacles specified in Item (d) shall not be located
(i) on the area of the wall directly behind the kitchen sink; or
(ii) on the area of the counter directly in front of the kitchen sink;
(f) no point in a hallway within a dwelling unit shall be more than 4.5 m from a duplex receptacle as measured
by the shortest path that the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without
passing through an opening fitted with a door;
​


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Mshow1323 said:


> Yes. I would have one at your "?" and eliminate the receptacle on the end. And...if the peninsula did not have an overhang, I would think about popping in a floor receptacle instead, but wih 40 units the floor recep. Is not as cost effective.


I should add that the recep on the backside of the peninsula is not a kitchen receptacle, it fills the need of your dinette, it needs to be on corresponding circuit and IMO at dinette height. Keep it off the SABC.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Mshow1323 said:


> I should add that the recep on the backside of the peninsula is not a kitchen receptacle, it fills the need of your dinette, it needs to be on corresponding circuit and IMO at dinette height. Keep it off the SABC.


what is your reasoning that the dinette receptacle cannot be on the SABC?


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

drspec said:


> what is your reasoning that the dinette receptacle cannot be on the SABC?


You're right, first I explain what I meant, then what I thought, and finally why I was wrong. 

Meant: Dining and counter are obviously both on a SABC. 
Thought: once an SABC was in a kitchen, it couldn't leave that kitchen
Wrong: because I can't ing read. 

Me... I'll most likely always have the dining on a dedicated circuit to keep AFCIs out of the kitchen.


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## Dash Dingo (Mar 3, 2012)

Mshow1323 said:


> Yes. I would have one at your "?" and eliminate the receptacle on the end. And...if the peninsula did not have an overhang, I would think about popping in a floor receptacle instead, but wih 40 units the floor recep. Is not as cost effective.


I will bring this option up
To my inspector.
Thanks


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't think you will find a standard ruling on this. Ask the authority having jurisdiction and be certain. IMO, you are fine as long as the other room is a dining area and there is less than 12' between the two receptacles. As long as you are within 5'6" from the floor the recptacle on the peninsula would also count as the wall space requirement


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