# Propane VS Electric Heat



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Up here in northern MN, propane is now $6.10 a gallon. At 95% efficiency that's $69 per million Btu's. Electric right out the wall is $29. This is doing a few things. Plenum heaters are 3 weeks out. People are plugging portable heaters into every circuit in these old fuse panels and upping the fuse size. I see fires coming, houses freezing up. It's a mess.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

You're like a modern day nostradamus!


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

I'm heating with propane, but own my tank. I got the summer fill and contracted 300 extra at 1.70 per gallon. An ounce of prevention....

Maybe in the spring there will be tons of service upgrades coming.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

347sparky said:


> I'm heating with propane, but own my tank. I got the summer fill and contracted 300 extra at 1.70 per gallon. An ounce of prevention....
> 
> Maybe in the spring there will be tons of service upgrades coming.


The contracts here have all been cancelled. The propane companies have an out in them. I'll bet if you read yours, you'll find that is true. I own my tank too, 1000 gal and I fill it in the summer when gas is lowest.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

backstay said:


> The contracts here have all been cancelled. The propane companies have an out in them. I'll bet if you read yours, you'll find that is true. I own my tank too, 1000 gal and I fill it in the summer when gas is lowest.


You got me wondering so I found my paperwork on it. They cannot cancel without approval of both parties, but may not be held liable for failure of vendors or suppliers to perform obligations to the Co-op.

I still have 400 gallons left in mine, so hopefully the shortage gets rectified before I need more. Looks like I contracted at $1.49, not $1.70.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

347sparky said:


> You got me wondering so I found my paperwork on it. They cannot cancel without approval of both parties, but may not be held liable for failure of vendors or suppliers to perform obligations to the Co-op.
> 
> I still have 400 gallons left in mine, so hopefully the shortage gets rectified before I need more. Looks like I contracted at $1.49, not $1.70.


I know an insider and he said they all have an out. Most people aren't going to go to court anyway. My brother in law has a contract and they told him they don't have any gas to bring him. Now the politicians here are getting involved. That will really screw it up.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

backstay said:


> I know an insider and he said they all have an out. Most people aren't going to go to court anyway. My brother in law has a contract and they told him they don't have any gas to bring him. Now the politicians here are getting involved. That will really screw it up.


If the weather warms up I should be ok anyway. We do work at the co-op, I know where all the breakers are!


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I use space heaters in my shop, and occasionally in my home. Being able to spot-heat with electric is far cheaper than electric baseboard or propane. Where I have gas, I use gas.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

dspiffy said:


> I use space heaters in my shop, and occasionally in my home. *Being able to spot-heat with electric is far cheaper than electric baseboard* or propane. Where I have gas, I use gas.


Built-in stats.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Bought another couple tons of pellets. Propane is pricey. Thankfully we are almost done with January.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Backstay,
need to calculate the dif to see what our areas are doing....


~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It's 70 degrees here this morning and we had a little rain over night.
I'm glad I have inside work planned today. I wouldn't want to be out in that mess.
The orchids I have stuffed in the palm trees outside seem to like it though, most of them are ready to bloom.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

jrannis said:


> It's 70 degrees here this morning and we had a little rain over night.
> I'm glad I have inside work planned today. I wouldn't want to be out in that mess.
> The orchids I have stuffed in the palm trees outside seem to like it though, most of them are ready to bloom.


The weather sounds nice but you are still in Florida. I'd rather freeze for a month or two.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Cheapest to most expensive... Im sure it will change in a few hours:laughing:

Solar
Gas
Geothermal
Propane

Oil

Electric het pump

Wood stoves (varies from where yu buy the wood, if it yours its free:thumbup

Electric resistance


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

meadow said:


> Cheapest to most expensive... Im sure it will change in a few hours:laughing:
> 
> Solar
> Gas
> ...


Cheapest:

Down filled parka. Toque. Snow boots. Captain Morgan. Sit back, relax and watch Hockey Night in Canada  .


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

meadow said:


> Cheapest to most expensive... Im sure it will change in a few hours:laughing:
> 
> Solar
> Gas
> ...


humm not in quebec
i would say 
Solar, wind
Wood stoves (usually 7-80$ per 16" cord, i burn about 10-12 cord )
Geothermal
Electric heat pump (only good for autumn and spring)
Natural Gas
Electric resistance
Oil
Propane (over 3x more expensive than electric here, electric is about 0.075 cdn kw/h)

I used wood for main heating, a wall heat pump and electric baseboard when under -8C (wood is not powerful enough for whole house)


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

4-6 cords a year, 75F+ , can't beat a_ 'political lite' _fuel source....

~CS~


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

meadow said:


> Cheapest to most expensive... Im sure it will change in a few hours:laughing:
> 
> Solar
> Gas
> ...


If your talking cheapest to run, it's more like this

Geothermal @10 cents/kW is $7.00 per million
Wood @ $150/cord is $12 per million
Off peak electric @ 6 cents/kW is $14 per million
Straight electric @ 10 cents/kW is $29 per million
Fuel oil @ $4.20/ gal is $34 per million
Propane @ $6.10/ gal is $67 per million

Solar is a non starter as you would never be able to have a system big enough to heat with. 

And as of yesterday propane here is $6.10 a gal.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

jrannis said:


> It's 70 degrees here this morning and we had a little rain over night.
> I'm glad I have inside work planned today. I wouldn't want to be out in that mess.
> The orchids I have stuffed in the palm trees outside seem to like it though, most of them are ready to bloom.


How cold does it have to get before you develop Frozen Chads?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I am going to get in before this thread gets closed because we are talking about the weather.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wendon said:


> How cold does it have to get before you develop Frozen Chads?


That's Palm Beach, the next county up. It's where the Yankees come to retire. And where Rush lives.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Electricity here is almost 18 cents a kw/hr so the price is almost comparable to propane. Natural gas in the most common followed by oil being in areas without gas service. Last I heard, Maine is #1 for homes heated by oil.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> I am going to get in before this thread gets closed because we are talking about the weather.


If you like your weather, you can keep your weather.

Oh, and PMS jokes aren't funny. Period.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

MTW said:


> Electricity here is almost 18 cents a kw/hr so the price is almost comparable to propane. Natural gas in the most common followed by oil being in areas without gas service. Last I heard, Maine is #1 for homes heated by oil.


$52 per million Btu's. still cheaper than propane.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Ordered propane last week Monday, the price was $2.44 a gallon. They delivered it on Thursday and the price was up to $4.08. Lucky me they gave me Monday's price. Tore out my oil furnace last year and installed a high efficiency LP furnace. Should have kept the oil furnace I guess!!


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wendon said:


> Ordered propane last week Monday, the price was $2.44 a gallon. They delivered it on Thursday and the price was up to $4.08. Lucky me they gave me Monday's price. Tore out my oil furnace last year and installed a high efficiency LP furnace. Should have kept the oil furnace I guess!!


Best to have multiple sources. What's electric cost there? Any dual fuel or off peak rates?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Best to have multiple sources. What's electric cost there? Any dual fuel or off peak rates?


I think we're at about $.14 right now. The off peak that our local POCO offers hardly pays anymore. Xcel has an off peak usage program but that can stink at times too because they nail you for any usage that isn't off peak.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MTW said:


> Electricity here is almost 18 cents a kw/hr so the price is almost comparable to propane. Natural gas in the most common followed by oil being in areas without gas service. Last I heard, Maine is #1 for homes heated by oil.


Do you really pay that? I pay around .05 to .07 at max times. Wow, why so much?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Do you really pay that? I pay around .05 to .07 at max times. Wow, why so much?


Yes, that's really what we pay. As for why, I'm not sure but I know the northeast historically has among the most expensive electricity in the country.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

One thing interesting about living in South Florida is, this time of year the air conditioner doesnt run much.
My electric bill just arrived, it was a $179.00 credit!! 

But, tomorrow might be close to 80 again


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## 37523 (Dec 30, 2012)

> _Last I heard, Maine is #1 for homes heated by oil._

Oil is big business here. Or rather a LOT of small businesses. I get mine at No Frills, but there's a half-dozen other trucks I see on my street every week.

My oil burner is tired and one thing and another, I thought to go to propane next spring. Last fall propane in my tank was $2.10 (but $3.30 in the supplier's tank for small quantity). I'm astounded that you are seeing $6. That really means I need to up my tankage and buy while warm. 

Residential electricity here is going to 16 cents KWH (was 14c in NJ). Maybe more. (Bizarrely, commercial customers pay more than residential rates on the default plan.) The nukes are shut-down, coal is out of style, folks won't let a wire be run to Quebec hydro, Maine hydro was fully exploited almost a century ago. The power plants in Bangor burn mostly Natural Gas (some oil). And it is a very long thin pipeline from mid-continent where the gas starts. 

A plan for mega-tankage at Searsport got shot-down. Blocks the view, might explode (a nearby pipeline blew-off full pressure for most of an hour one night). 

I don't see "your own wood" as free. I got 4 acres of trees. But I can't swing an axe that well. Chain-saws (most) are troublesome money-pits. My trees are unmanaged so dropping one without snag or kick-back is a major project. Then dragging the wet wood to the shed. Splitting. Re-stacking. Either way you have chimney cleaning costs you don't get much with oil and nearly none with gas. 20 years ago I burned wood half of every weekend, and it seemed I was spending all my spare time splitting. Yes, it warms you twice. But even "free" I'd rather pay for a cord. 

Where I'm at, geothermal is absurd. It's all rock 2 feet down. Pump-to-air is very challenged in this climate, lots of failures.


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