# Anyone run ser in homes?



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I always use #6SER (AL) for ranges.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I always run #6 SER for 50A. Ranges, welders, car chargers, RV outlets, sub panels, etc.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I always run #6 SER for 50A. Ranges, welders, car chargers, RV outlets, sub panels, etc.


That used to be common here back in the 70's and 80's then dropped off. Most everyone runs copper now for the 50 and 60 amp circuits, myself included. I imagine the 6/3 AL is 1/3 the cost?


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Be careful, some jurisdictions allow AL for services only. Aluminum SER for sub feeders internal to the house might not be allowed. Most inspectors will not pick up on feeders being aluminum or copper.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> Be careful, some jurisdictions allow AL for services only. Aluminum SER for sub feeders internal to the house might not be allowed. Most inspectors will not pick up on feeders being aluminum or copper.


Not a problem here and in 99% of areas with sane codes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> That used to be common here back in the 70's and 80's then dropped off. Most everyone runs copper now for the 50 and 60 amp circuits, myself included. I imagine the 6/3 AL is 1/3 the cost?


Why would you do something so crazy?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why would you do something so crazy?


Mostly due to the better ampacity of copper.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Mostly due to the better ampacity of copper.


I don’t understand. At any specific ampacity, copper will cost more.

It’s the worst at 50A. You need #6 for both aluminum SER and copper Romex. 

60A requires a larger size aluminum SER. But it still costs a lot less than copper and it’s rated for up to 70A (better ampacity).


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don’t understand. At any specific ampacity, copper will cost more.
> 
> It’s the worst at 50A. You need #6 for both aluminum SER and copper Romex.
> 
> 60A requires a larger size aluminum SER. But it still costs a lot less than copper and it’s rated for up to 70A (better ampacity).



Generally speaking, we protect #6 CU NM cable at 60 amps, you can't do that with #6 AL SER cable. But otherwise it's just local tradition basically, no real other reason for it.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> Mostly due to the better ampacity of copper.


:no::no:

A 50a feeder costs $0.28 more per ft in copper 6 ser vs 8/3 romex (MA)
a 60a feeder costs $0.63 more per ft in copper 4 ser vs 6/3 romex

I prefer profit:thumbup: over some fairy tale about copper being better


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> :no::no:
> 
> A 50a feeder costs $0.28 more per ft in copper 6 ser vs 8/3 romex (MA)
> a 60a feeder costs $0.63 more per ft in copper 4 ser vs 6/3 romex
> ...


I never said it was better. I use AL all the time for services and feeders. Just haven't jumped on the branch circuit bandwagon yet.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> I never said it was better. I use AL all the time for services and feeders. Just haven't jumped on the branch circuit bandwagon yet.



Well... start wiring your ranges, welders, car chargers, generators and larger HVAC equipment with it. Keep pricing it like you were using copper and make more profit :thumbup: If the equipment says copper only, run AL to the disco and CU to the equipment.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> :no::no:
> 
> A 50a feeder costs $0.28 more per ft in copper 6 ser vs 8/3 romex (MA)
> a 60a feeder costs $0.63 more per ft in copper 4 ser vs 6/3 romex
> ...


I am confused. You are comparing copper SER to romex?

I've never actually seen copper SER in real life.

ETA: Nevermind, I see what you meant now.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I am confused. You are comparing copper SER to romex?
> 
> I've never actually seen copper SER in real life.
> 
> ETA: Nevermind, I see what you meant now.



Yes CU romex vs AL SER. 
Not that I want to buy any, but my supplier has 4, 2, 1 and 2/0 CU SER in stock.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I am confused. You are comparing copper SER to romex?
> 
> I've never actually seen copper SER in real life.
> 
> ETA: Nevermind, I see what you meant now.


I've seen copper SEU cable that wasn't very old, but not sure about SER.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> Be careful, some jurisdictions allow AL for services only.


When I was on Long Island all we used was copper SEU. When I moved upstate they'd never even heard of it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Back when aluminum was an issue and everyone was afraid of it we used plenty of copper seu,ser and even nm. One supplier used to stock 2/3 nm copper and didn't have 4/3 nm copper. The other supplier in town has 4/3 nm copper but no 2/3 nm copper. It worked out for us. My friend used to have a piece of 3/0 or 2/0 copper seu that he bought and never used.... I think it was something like $7 per foot at the time. He ended up taking it to the scrap yard with his other stuff...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I just want to be clear about something in case anyone wasn't sure. Any contractor that uses copper when aluminum would work is a silly goose.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

*I have an announcement to make!!!!*

I've wired a gajillion houses in my career. Every single one of them has had Alum SER cable installed for sub feeder cables, and oven branch circuits. Many have had Alum SER run for AC compressor feeder wiring as well. 


Nothing ever caught fire yet, and I have been unleashing this public hazard for 45 years. 







Carry on.......................


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I just want to be clear about something in case anyone wasn't sure. Any contractor that uses copper when aluminum would work is a silly goose.


In coastal areas, the salt air destroys anything make of aluminum. Copper is better in those locations.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> In coastal areas, the salt air destroys anything make of aluminum. Copper is better in those locations.


Don't try to pick one little outlier that doesn't even apply to you to avoid admitting that you are, in fact, a silly goose.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Don't try to pick one little outlier that doesn't even apply to you to avoid admitting that you are, in fact, a silly goose.


It's not an outlier, there are lots of coastal areas where AL is a bad choice. Just look at anyone dumb enough to use a regular a/c condenser in those areas.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> It's not an outlier, there are lots of coastal areas where AL is a bad choice. Just look at anyone dumb enough to use a regular a/c condenser in those areas.


Great, but you are not in that area, silly goose.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> In coastal areas, the salt air destroys anything make of aluminum. Copper is better in those locations.



Do I not live in an area of coastal? They make this stuff. It's called No-alox. When you put some on your connections they last for as long as the copper ones do. The meter can rusts away to powder before the alum cable connections degrade if you put the no alox on the terminations. 


It's almost as if you were a 1st year apprentice sometimes..............


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Nevermind the fact that this thread is about 50A indoor circuits...

Peter just won't accept the fact that he is a silly goose.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Great, but you are not in that area, silly goose.


I work on coastal homes on occasion. I see the damage done. Anything steel is not immune either.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Do I not live in an area of coastal? They make this stuff. It's called No-alox. When you put some on your connections they last for as long as the copper ones do. The meter can rusts away to powder before the alum cable connections degrade if you put the no alox on the terminations.
> 
> 
> It's almost as if you were a 1st year apprentice sometimes..............


Oh, you don't say Mikey. I never knew any of that before you told me. Thanks for enlightening me.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I work on coastal homes on occasion. I see the damage done. Anything steel is not immune either.


But you don't use aluminum on non-coastal houses, you silly goose.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BTW, Peter, thank you for the posts to help me get this Amazon card.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> But you don't use aluminum on non-coastal houses, you silly goose.


Of course not. But there are places where it shouldn't be used.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> BTW, Peter, thank you for the posts to help me get this Amazon card.


You're welcome Hacky.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> In coastal areas, the salt air destroys anything make of aluminum. Copper is better in those locations.


I used to have that opinion. Then I noticed the steel meter pans and aluminum bussing in them was rotting away as well on the beach. Now, I just use the aluminum and don't give it a 2nd thought. Just grease all of your connections and your aluminum will last just as long as the junk that it's connected to.
How many coastal services have you done where the power company ran copper overhead? Survey Sez....... ZEEERRRRROOOOW!


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