# Central Vac tripping AFCI



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Face it... the commutator may be shot.

If so, then EVERY AFCI is going to 'object.'

Just how old is the blower ?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Sounds like the vac to me.


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

Damn its only 3 years old


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Canaduh said:


> Damn its only 3 years old


Does it get moisture in it?

Does it run for long periods of time and get hot?

Many things can contribute to premature wear.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

GE took the GF function out a while ago Canaduh . How big this motor is, and how close is the serving Xformer would be what i'd focus on ~CS~


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

The vac runs fine on a regular outlet. It trips right away when I start the vac, pretty much instantly on the afci outlet.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Do the lights dim on a '_regular outlet_' Canaduh? ~CS~


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

chicken steve said:


> Do the lights dim on a '_regular outlet_' Canaduh? ~CS~


No they don't. I was called to this home to deal with the issue of the breaker tripping when the vacuum and garage heater were working at the same time.
The vac installer simply installed the vacuum next to a garage receptacle which is not dedicated. The homeowner has a heater plugged into another outlet for her dogs that she kennels in the garage.

I sold her a dedicated vac outlet and I had to afci it as per new code but it trips instantly. 
I'm thinking about using a current splitter on a regular outlet to see how much current the vac is drawing. I guess I should have known the vac could possibly be failing but it's still a fairly new vac.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I am not too suprised with those central vac they can hit high as 12 to 15 amps running depending on the set up.
( based on 120 volt model ) 

They will start pretty fast but the AFCI will not read this type of motor. 

did you try different AFCI breaker ? sometime ya got a bad AFCI breaker as well.


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

frenchelectrican said:


> I am not too suprised with those central vac they can hit high as 12 to 15 amps running depending on the set up.
> ( based on 120 volt model )
> 
> They will start pretty fast but the AFCI will not read this type of motor.
> ...


No I didnt try I different afci breaker yet. What a pain in my ass this is. The breaker was really hard to find locally for me and if replacing it yields the same results, I am really going to lose on this job.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Canaduh said:


> No I didnt try I different afci breaker yet. What a pain in my ass this is. The breaker was really hard to find locally for me and if replacing it yields the same results, I am really going to lose on this job.


No, you win, the customer wins, and the industry wins. We all would have lost out on this job if you had just put in a plain breaker like any of us handyman types would have done.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

This same Vac motor scenario is so prevalent that the NEMA men are using it for classroom CEU material now.

I'm just not buying that an OCPD is manufactured for the failure of other manufactured goods here.

If in fact the '_arcing commutator_' is culprit , the my Hole Hawg should be grand test pilot . Further switching from forward to reverse should create an even *bigger* arc.

I've looked more to the _*spike *_of any given motor, than the arc it can create in recent years, because the _dirty little secret_ of afci technology is the mag trip level incorporated. 

~CS~


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

Is there some way to test these breakers to see if they're defective? This particular breaker has a test button unlike Siemens and C/H. It's like a toggle switch, pressing left tests for series arc, pressing right tests for parallel arc.
The breakers give no indication of what caused the trip unlike the status led on the siemens and c/h afcis.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Canaduh said:


> No I didnt try I different afci breaker yet. What a pain in my ass this is. The breaker was really hard to find locally for me and if replacing it yields the same results, I am really going to lose on this job.


You don't have to get another GE breaker to test. Use another AFCI brand that fits the panel, just for testing. If it passes that test, follow these steps below:

1) Install regular GE breaker
2) Leave


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

RePhase277 said:


> You don't have to get another GE breaker to test. Use another AFCI brand that fits the panel, just for testing. If it passes that test, follow these steps below:
> 
> 1) Install regular GE breaker
> 2) Leave


Lol. This may actually work because I think Siemens fit in the panel. problem is its getting inspected on Monday. If the Siemens swap works, I think I may have to use a dead front and never work on another GE panel again.

..or she needs a new central vac...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Well you can fill out a complaint report and forward it to NEMA , but they'll just send a 'canned answer' back to you Canaduh.....~CS~:no:


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

chicken steve said:


> Well you can fill out a complaint report and forward it to NEMA , but they'll just send a 'canned answer' back to you Canaduh.....~CS~:no:


Yep already did that, I am not expecting anything short of a canned answer.


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

RePhase277 said:


> You don't have to get another GE breaker to test. Use another AFCI brand that fits the panel, just for testing. If it passes that test, follow these steps below:
> 
> 1) Install regular GE breaker
> 2) Leave


Good call on this one. A Siemens afci did not trip. I'm really not interested in buying another GE afci breaker because I feel it will trip as well.
I'm going to install a dead front afci device next to a 3 year old panel fml.

This better work or I am losing on this one for real.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> No, you win, the customer wins, and the industry wins. We all would have lost out on this job if you had just put in a plain breaker like any of us handyman types would have done.


Wow, just wow...


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

matt1124 said:


> No, you win, the customer wins, and the industry wins. We all would have lost out on this job if you had just put in a plain breaker like any of us handyman types would have done.


Nice troll post.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Canaduh said:


> Good call on this one. A Siemens afci did not trip. I'm really not interested in buying another GE afci breaker because I feel it will trip as well.
> I'm going to install a dead front afci device next to a 3 year old panel fml.
> 
> This better work or I am losing on this one for real.


The interesting thing here is GE is less sensitive, by their own accord

~CS~


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Less sensitive to what is the question. We all know the mystical theory behind the AFCI, but in reality each manufacturer has a Secret Blend of 11 Herbs and Spices that's different from every other manufacturer. It's all hocus pocus bull.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

question. why is OP arc fault protecting an outlet in a garage?
Is this a Canada code requirement?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

lighterup said:


> question. why is OP arc fault protecting an outlet in a garage?
> Is this a Canada code requirement?


Lighterup.,, the OP is in Canada and with attached garage and I belive their code do kick in for the AFCI requirement.,

However if seperated garage or other building then the AFCI do not kick in as long it is not tied to the main resdentail unit.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Lighterup.,, the OP is in Canada and with attached garage and I belive their code do kick in for the AFCI requirement.,
> 
> However if seperated garage or other building then the AFCI do not kick in as long it is not tied to the main resdentail unit.


Oh..okay..thank you. I know I don't arc fault anything in the garages
attached or not , but I'm not in Canada...sort of.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm sure we will have to AFCI the garage outlets soon.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I'm sure we will have to AFCI the garage outlets soon.


Hack .,, just wait we will catch up with their stuff related to the AFCI in garage.,, ( I hope not in our island at all ., )


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Filling out that Nema report got me a replacement circuit breaker that I have yet to install. This was a BR style AFCI and they sent me a new dual function. I don’t know whether our Nema site is relevant in Canada. We have Cutler Hammer classified AFCI breakers that fit in most panels.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I extended a circuit last week and didn't install an AFCI.

Now where is Steve to tell me I'm dragging the forum down?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

frenchelectrican said:


> Hack .,, just wait we will catch up with their stuff related to the AFCI in garage.,, ( I hope not in our island at all ., )


You say you're on an island?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> You say you're on an island?


Yup ., Philippines


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> You don't have to get another GE breaker to test. Use another AFCI brand that fits the panel, just for testing. If it passes that test, follow these steps below:
> 
> 1) Install regular GE breaker
> 2) Leave


My thoughts exactly. Garbage Electric

:laughing::thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

MTW said:


> I extended a circuit last week and didn't install an AFCI.
> 
> Now where is Steve to tell me I'm dragging the forum down?


Hes busy right now, making another thread into dildos.


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## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

Probably a dumb question but would installing a point of use surge protector at the vacuum have a chance of solving the issue?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Canaduh said:


> Probably a dumb question but would installing a point of use surge protector at the vacuum have a chance of solving the issue?


It would definitely help protect the vacuum from surges:laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Draw the line at adding anything special to make these devices function. Nothing the manufacturers would love more than to have us spend more money and time solving the problems of their defective products.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

lighterup said:


> question. why is OP arc fault protecting an outlet in a garage?
> Is this a Canada code requirement?


ding,ding ,ding! hey, That's what I was gonna post.


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