# overhead service connection



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Here the poco makes all the overhead connections. 

While technically if you were to touch the wires with your hands, at a 120/240 standard service, it would be the same as if you were at a receptacle, BUT, if the phase conductors were to touch each other or to the neutral, it would be a disastrous outcome. 


Sent from my house using 2 cans and a string


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MattM-NC said:


> So a couple questions here on the topic of service drops, or overhead service connections, or whatever they are called.
> 
> Whenever we upgrade services, the EC I work for connects the triplex to the main wires going into the meter base, the overhead connection. Is this standard practice for EC's everywhere or do the power companies make those connections themselves in some places?


Depends on the area. In some areas the PoCo won't let you touch that. In other areas like mine, making that connection yourself when changing the service is your only option.


> He's teaching me how to do it, and while I respect his knowledge and skills, he is generally more careless and less safety conscious than I am, so I am trying to find other ways of learning to make that connection. I am having trouble finding any good you tube videos of how to do that.
> Any suggestions?
> What kind of safety precautions do you take when you hook up the service?


 This is a bad situation because as far as OSHA you are not allowed to do this, although doing this is the only way it gets done in some places like I said above. To be safe you have to be sure you are on an insulated ladder, you do not touch the house, and you only touch one wire at a time. Make sure the other wires coming from the PoCo are securely tied back so they don't accidentally touch you. 



> It makes me quite nervous when I'm up there doing it, but my boss tells me that there is no 'load on the wire' so it 'doesn't have any draw' and it's not actually that dangerous, and that if you get shocked by one of those wires it's not much worse than getting bit by a receptacle.


 He is right and wrong. The fact that there is no load only means that there won't be a spark or arc when you touch the wires together. Other than that, it doesn't change anything. As far as the shock, yes, it's the same shock as a receptacle if it's between the hot and ground. But if you touch both hots it's much worse (240V). And what is as dangerous as the chock is the arc blast that occurs if you let the wire touch something grounded or the other hot wire. That explosion and spash of molten metal will ruin your day. And also remember that you are on top of a high ladder. So it is very dangerous if you don't know exactly what you are doing.



> But I don't know that he's right. Seems like if I am a path to ground by touching a gutter or a metal mast head while crimping the triplex bare-handed (which is how he always does it) than there would be infinite amperage at 120 volts until the transformer blew.


 The body has high resistance so the current flow is rather low. The transformer will never "blow".



> However, I have seen him get shocked while hooking up the overhead service a couple times, and while he didn't like it, it didn't kill him.


 This is unacceptable. I have been shocked many times in my career, but never connecting s ervice. There is no reason to get shocked while connecting a service other than you being an idiot. If you do it correctly, you won't get shocked.


> Furthermore, he says that working on a live panel in a house is much more dangerous because there is a lot of draw on it.


 Wrong.


> Does this sound correct?


 It sounds like an electrician who learned in the field and never took any classes just talking out of his ass.



> Thanks for your thoughts. I know I am asking a lot of questions. maybe I should have broken it into two threads, but like I said, I'm having trouble finding good tutorials on the interwebs regarding this specific step.


You won't find any tutorial on how to do this since it's not officially and accepted thing to do.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

what areas in NC are you doing service disconnects and reconnects? Sounds to me like someone isnt pulling permits


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> This is unacceptable. I have been shocked many times in my career, but never connecting s ervice. There is no reason to get shocked while connecting a service other than you being an idiot. If you do it correctly, you won't get shocked.


I agree 100%. I think it's one of the safest jobs to do live because there is little risk involved with the right precautions.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I agree 100%. I think it's one of the safest jobs to do live because there is little risk involved with the right precautions.


You get shocked because you are lazy and complacent. Two things that should never happen when you are up there connecting a service.


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Depends on the area. In some areas the PoCo won't let you touch that. In other areas like mine, making that connection yourself when changing the service is your only option.
> This is a bad situation because as far as OSHA you are not allowed to do this, although doing this is the only way it gets done in some places like I said above.


These are permitted jobs that we are connecting the power to the house. But you are saying that OSHA technically only wants linesmen to make these connections and not EC's? 





HackWork said:


> To be safe you have to be sure you are on an insulated ladder, you do not touch the house, and you only touch one wire at a time. Make sure the other wires coming from the PoCo are securely tied back so they don't accidentally touch you.


That is helpful to hear. And by insulated ladder, do you mean fiberglass?



HackWork said:


> He is right and wrong. The fact that there is no load only means that there won't be a spark or arc when you touch the wires together. Other than that, it doesn't change anything. As far as the shock, yes, it's the same shock as a receptacle if it's between the hot and ground. But if you touch both hots it's much worse (240V). And what is as dangerous as the chock is the arc blast that occurs if you let the wire touch something grounded or the other hot wire. That explosion and spash of molten metal will ruin your day. And also remember that you are on top of a high ladder. So it is very dangerous if you don't know exactly what you are doing.


that makes sense




HackWork said:


> This is unacceptable. I have been shocked many times in my career, but never connecting service. There is no reason to get shocked while connecting a service other than you being an idiot. If you do it correctly, you won't get shocked.
> Wrong.
> It sounds like an electrician who learned in the field and never took any classes just talking out of his ass.


Yeah....




HackWork said:


> You won't find any tutorial on how to do this since it's not officially and accepted thing to do.


That's weird that it's not officially accepted yet it's officially how it works, at least around here.


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

It's permitted work.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MattM-NC said:


> These are permitted jobs that we are connecting the power to the house. But you are saying that OSHA technically only wants linesmen to make these connections and not EC's?


There are only a few instances in which you are allowed to work on something while energized and this is not one of them. I am not sure how,linemen get around the OSHA rules.


> That's weird that it's not officially accepted yet it's officially how it works, at least around here.


Officially? Can you show me in writing where it says that people other than employees of the power company have to make hot connections of the service drops?


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Officially? Can you show me in writing where it says that people other than employees of the power company have to make hot connections of the service drops?


Probably not. I just assumed if we are doing it on permitted jobs that it's kosher, or that there isn't another option. I'll have to ask my boss what the deal with that around here is.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MattM-NC said:


> Probably not. I just assumed if we are doing it on permitted jobs that it's kosher, or that there isn't another option. I'll have to ask my boss what the deal with that around here is.


The connection has nothing to do with the municipality that issues the permits. The connection is a power company thing.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

MattM-NC said:


> Seems like if I am a path to ground by touching a gutter or a metal mast head while crimping the triplex bare-handed (which is how he always does it) than there would be infinite amperage at 120 volts until the transformer blew. However, I have seen him get shocked while hooking up the overhead service a couple times, and while he didn't like it, it didn't kill him.




Tell him to quit touching the riser and doing the splice (although I don't see how he can do this) and the shocks will stop!


Sent from my house using 2 cans and a string


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Buy some hot gloves for $80 and you've immediately cut your risk in half. 

It absolutely kills me that 150 year after the introduction of electricity we're still playing the "Gee, I wonder how not to get shocked" game.

That one-hand-at-a-time/hope-you-don't-ground-yourself method is complete amateur hour. The tools to do this with a reasonable level of safety are not expensive or hard to use.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> That one-hand-at-a-time/hope-you-don't-ground-yourself method is complete amateur hour. The tools to do this with a reasonable level of safety are not expensive or hard to use.


I'd say that "amateur hour" is speaking about something you don't have much experience with. 

There is no "*hope*-you-don't-ground-yourself" method. Simply *don't* ground yourself. It's no different than not driving thru a red light. Pay attention and it will never happen.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

"Just don't get hurt and you won't get hurt." 

Refusing to take the bare minimum steps to protect yourself is amateur as hell. Sorry you don't like it, but I sure didn't make you get on the internet and broadcast that to everyone.

And you definitely don't have any business recommending that half-assed approach to people who don't know better.

This trade really needs to stop being willfully dumb about our own safety. You wonder why we have to constantly contend with strong-arm safety regs? That's why.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> "Just don't get hurt and you won't get hurt."
> 
> Refusing to take the bare minimum steps to protect yourself is amateur as hell.


That's not true, John. As my posts outlined, there are many steps to take to be safe. 

Your contention is that I am not subscribing to *your* arbitrary line in the sand separating what is safe and what is not. 



> And you definitely don't have any business recommending that half-assed approach to people who don't know better.


No, it's you who doesn't have any business speaking to this. Add up all the service drop connections you have made, then add a 0 to the end of it and it will still probably be less than I have made, yet you throw around the word "amateur" as if it doesn't directly define you in this instance.

For some reason you think gloves are this huge safety net that will keep everyone perfectly safe. IMO, I find gloves to give a false sense of hope in this situation, while also impeding the work while the person is in a dangerous position. Proper safety procedures win over a thin layer of protection that can be pierced with the common snagged conductor that you find on a 50 year old drop. How do I know that? Direct experience. Not assumption like you are making while sitting behind your safety desk.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

You don't know that because don't use them. I call it amateur because you have no experience actually trying to do it safely; you simply assume it can't be done. 

I've heard that tired dinosaur era thinking for years. It's nothing but an excuse from people who refuse to change.

It's a very rare day when I don't have to work in gloves, so you can cram that silly "no experience" talk.

You want to risk your safety, nobody is gonna stop you. But if you expect me to roll over while you tell greenies to do something dangerous, you've got another thing coming.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> You don't know that because don't use them.


 I have, and that's why I said I have direct experience with them being punctured by conductor splinters.



> I call it amateur because you have no experience actually trying to do it safety; you simply assume it can't be done.


 Again, not true. 



> I've heard that tired dinosaur era thinking for years. It's nothing but an excuse from people who refuse to change.


 Refuse to change? Dinosaur? I'm probably younger than you and I am looking for any way to make it safer being up there. In case you haven't noticed by my posts, I am ALWAYS looking for new ideas and ways to do things. 



> It's a very rare day when I don't have to work in gloves, so you can cram that silly "no experience" talk.


 You have little to no experience performing the act we are speaking about in this thread. Wearing gloves daily is not experience with a task. 



> You want to risk your safety, nobody is gonna stop you. But if you expect me to roll over while you tell greenies to follow stupid, you've got another thing coming.


I expect you to stop making so many false assumptions and stop posting about things you don't have experience with, while calling the people with the experience amateurs.

Again, you are posting from the perspective of your safety desk while wearing your safety gloves. Please save that for Mike Holt's forum.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I have, and that's why I said I have direct experience with them being punctured by conductor splinters.


 So that makes wearing nothing safer? 

"The condom broke so let's keep screwing bareback to prevent more condom failures."


> Refuse to change? Dinosaur? I'm probably younger than you and I am looking for any way to make it safer being up there.


 Except for doing the bare minimum of PPE, right? You're fooling yourself, but it's not okay to fool the greenies.


> You have little to no experience performing the act we are speaking about in this thread. Wearing gloves daily is not experience with a task.


 You think that voltage in industrial acts differently than resi? I don't need to be doing taps on a house to know that it's irresponsible to tell apprentices to hot tap without gloves.


> I expect you to stop making so many false assumptions and stop posting about things you don't have experience with


 You first. You're trying to claim your lack of training is authority. It isn't. It's luck.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> So that makes wearing nothing safer?
> 
> "The condom broke so let's keep going bareback to prevent more condom failures." Except for doing the bare minimum of PPE, right? You're fooling yourself, but it's not okay to fool the greenies. You think that voltage in industrial acts differently than resi? I don't need to be doing taps on a house to know that it's irresponsible to tell apprentices to hot tap without gloves. You first. You're trying to claim your lack of training is authority. It isn't. It's luck.


You're so FOS that my toilet is jealous. You drew an arbitrary line in the sand one step past mine, at gloves. Yet for some reason you are up on your high horse acting like what you say is gospel and will save lives.

The next person will say the same thing to you that you are saying to me. He will say that you should being doing calculations and wearing a full suit and face mask. He will tell you that you are a dinosaur because you are telling newbies it's OK to do it in gloves and no further PPE.

So tell me, why is your line int he sand so much better than mine? What is is based off of if not DIRECT EXPERIENCE WITH THIS TASK?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> You're trying to claim your lack of training is authority. It isn't. It's luck.


What lack of training? You have no idea what my training is, none.

How many more blatantly false assumptions are you going to make today?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Big John said:


> Buy some hot gloves for $80 and you've immediately cut your risk in half.
> 
> It absolutely kills me that 150 year after the introduction of electricity we're still playing the "Gee, I wonder how not to get shocked" game.
> 
> That one-hand-at-a-time/hope-you-don't-ground-yourself method is complete amateur hour. The tools to do this with a reasonable level of safety are not expensive or hard to use.



Agreed, I bought the gloves and it was one of the best investments I've made. Anyone who bare hands a tie in or uses plain work gloves deserves to get blasted.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Agreed, I bought the gloves and it was one of the best investments I've made. Anyone who bare hands a tie in or uses plain work gloves deserves to get blasted.


Anyone who doesn't use the correct suit deserves to get blasted


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Yet for some reason you are up on your high horse acting like what you say is gospel and will save lives.


 Because that's exactly what is: Equipment that greatly reduces the risk of shock saves lives. That you are actually fighting that is exactly what I take issue with.


> The next person will say the same thing to you that you are saying to me. He will say that you should being doing calculations and wearing a full suit and face mask. He will tell you that you are a dinosaur because you are telling newbies it's OK to do it in gloves and no further PPE.
> 
> So tell me, why is your line int he sand so much better than mine? What is is based off of if not DIRECT EXPERIENCE WITH THIS TASK?


 Because I have the balls enough l admit when I'm doing something pointlessly dangerous. 

Whereas here we've got a green guy asking about the safest way to go about something, he describes the j-man getting shocked doing the exact same thing you're advocating, but instead of just admitting that it's not the safest approach, you triple-down on this ridiculous idea that taking no physical steps to guard against accidents is the best solution, and all you need is experience to protect you. We just had a thread where a senior lineman was electrocuted, maybe you should tell him all he needed was experience?

Everyone makes mistakes. I do. You do. And the OP will. It is plain irresponsible to claim that ignoring the tools we have to protect us from that is the best solution.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Anyone who doesn't use the correct suit deserves to get blasted


What? :001_huh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> Because that's exactly what is: Equipment that greatly reduces the risk of shock saves lives. That you are actually fighting that is exactly what I take issue with.


Something that gives false hope and makes the person let their guard down and stop following the procedure that will keep them safe is never good.



> Because I have the balls enough l admit when I'm doing something pointlessly dangerous.


Your bravado is noted.



> Whereas here we've got a green guy asking about the safest way to go about something, he describes the j-man getting shocked doing the exact same thing you're advocating, but instead of just admitting that it's not the safest approach, you triple-down on this ridiculous idea that taking no physical steps to guard against accidents is the best solution, and all you need is experience to protect you. We just had a thread where a senior lineman was electrocuted, maybe you should tell him all he needed was experience?


 Once again you are lying. I clearly outline physical steps to take to ensure safety. I'm starting to feel like I am talking to chicken Steve.



> Everyone makes mistakes. I do. You do. And the OP will. It is plain irresponsible to claim that ignoring the tools we have to protect us from that is the best solution.


 You are the one who is ignoring those tools. For the fourth time I will bring up the fact that you draw your line directly after using gloves and haven't advocated the guy use proper PPE.

How many more times do I need to explain the same thing to you? You keep ignoring it. Your way is the only way. Gloves are all you need, a full suit and face protection is unecessary, right?

Go do 100 connections and then post. You will have ditched the gloves long before the last one.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Hack ... your a ****ing idiot


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

My first couple of years I worked for a father and sons outfit. I remember the first time the one son thought it was time for me to do the tie in. I don't remember what he used to wear, but it was far less than what he had me ware. He dressed me up with rubbers, leather, goggles and a grinding shield. I don't know if he was keeping me safe or just getting a kick of how stupid I looked. I had so much stuff on I was scared sh&$less. 

The next time with the other son, he showed me how to slap the bare wire with my hand. Then do it again slower. He said it was important to do this to check that I'm not grounded. He said it was very dangerous to gab a wire not knowing if your grounded. The last thing you want is to have your muscles tighten to cut and then not to be able let go because your grounded. I always felt safer with the second method. 

While I understand that a lineman would probably get sent home with disciplinary measures for not wearing the proper PPE. And I am sure they can pick their nose after a while with their rubber and leather on, I can't. For me it's bare handed or just leather, and I'm sure not going to make any videos.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

"So a couple questions here on the topic of service drops, or overhead service connections, or whatever they are called."

If you haven't learned the terminology or understand some of the theory then it's probably too soon for you to be working hot (making energized connections). 



Whenever we upgrade services, the EC I work for connects the triplex to the main wires going into the meter base, the overhead connection. Is this standard practice for EC's everywhere or do the power companies make those connections themselves in some places?"

Depends on the local codes and power company. It would also depend if it was a permitted and inspected job.



"He's teaching me how to do it, and while I respect his knowledge and skills, he is generally more careless and less safety conscious than I am, so I am trying to find other ways of learning to make that connection. I am having trouble finding any good you tube videos of how to do that. 
Any suggestions?
What kind of safety precautions do you take when you hook up the service?"

You're probably learning from the wrong person and not ready.



"It makes me quite nervous when I'm up there doing it, but my boss tells me that there is no 'load on the wire' so it 'doesn't have any draw' and it's not actually that dangerous, and that if you get shocked by one of those wires it's not much worse than getting bit by a receptacle. But I don't know that he's right. Seems like if I am a path to ground by touching a gutter or a metal mast head while crimping the triplex bare-handed (which is how he always does it) than there would be infinite amperage at 120 volts until the transformer blew. However, I have seen him get shocked while hooking up the overhead service a couple times, and while he didn't like it, it didn't kill him. 
Furthermore, he says that working on a live panel in a house is much more dangerous because there is a lot of draw on it. 
Does this sound correct?"

There are several dangers making the connection.
Shock and ark flash.
Proper PPE helps protects you.
See the chart below, category 0 is a starting point, and shouldn't cost too much.
The employer is required to purchase and supply all PPE except boots (personal protective equipment) to make your job safe.

At the very least thick leather gloves, safety glasses, & cotton full covering clothing.
Fiberglass ladders are a must.

Like I said you need more training including some ark flash classes.

Working energized is permitted by OSHA if using the proper PPE.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Im still trying to figure out where in NC ECs are doing their own disconnects and reconnects


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

When the poco linemen do a connect here, they pull the tub hot with their stick and do it cold. Makes the most sense. When I've had to do them hot, I used gloves, and a wiggy to make sure there was no potential between the conductors before putting them together. As I get older, I get more cautious, the shock might not kill you, but the fall might make you wish it had.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

For what it is worth a $10 pair of leather gloves is fine in this circumstance. Rated glove are total overkill.

Although I bare hand them everytime. Gloves just get in the way.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> For what it is worth a $10 pair of leather gloves is fine in this circumstance. Rated glove are total overkill.
> 
> Although I bare hand them everytime. Gloves just get in the way.




You'll never convince the safety guy who has no fieldwork experience.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> Agreed, I bought the gloves and it was one of the best investments I've made. Anyone who bare hands a tie in or uses plain work gloves deserves to get blasted.


I have always used gloves. 

I have two pair shorties for simple stuff like a service connect and a pair that goes to the elbow for more serious applications like working inside a cabinet.

As you get older you care/worry a little more than when you were just a young cocky newbie.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I dont do them very often, so when i do its gloves, long sleeve shirt and safety glasses. For the few I do a year I dont mind taking the extra precaution.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> I dont do them very often, so when i do its gloves, long sleeve shirt and safety glasses. For the few I do a year I dont mind taking the extra precaution.


:thumbsup:

That would be my PPE preference.

Why take ANY risk?


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> For what it is worth a $10 pair of leather gloves is fine in this circumstance. Rated glove are total overkill.
> 
> Although I bare hand them everytime. Gloves just get in the way.


Like I wrote leather gloves. Keep them dry. Damp leather gloves you will feel something. If you ever have to work in wet weather get the rated gloves. Also don't think that just any rubber glove at the store is electrically insulated. The rubber may have carbon in the mix making it a conductor. 

Don't think the original poster needs to worry about a company safety person.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have always used *Bitch Mittens*.
> 
> I have two pair shorties for simple stuff like a service connect and a pair that goes to the elbow for more serious applications like working inside a cabinet.
> 
> As you get *to the geriatric stage in life,*you care/worry a little more than when you were just a young cocky newbie.


Fixed it for ya!😝
Lol


Texting and Driving


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Hack ... your a ****ing idiot


That's so weird, I thought this post was missing because Hax reported it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

trentonmakes said:


> Fixed it for ya!&#55357;&#56861;
> Lol
> 
> 
> Texting and Driving


Sad if you think so little of your personal safety that you need to be a hard head and not use gloves!

Geriatric, funny I made it this far without being electrocuted, will you be able to say the same at my age if you make it?


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Im just messin with ya

I dont usually wear gloves, but i will don a pair of bitch mittens when pulling the fish or digging

The metal fish has a tendency to dig into my skin

Texting and Driving


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Sad if you think so little of your personal safety that need to be a hard head and don't use gloves!


Quit with the hyperbole. Your idea of gloves being the quintessential gateway between safe and unsafe is nothing more than a matter of your own personal opinion.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> Quit with the hyperbole. Your idea of gloves being the quintessential gateway between safe and unsafe is nothing more than a matter of your own personal opinion.


I would agree it is definitely safer, but in reality not necessary.

Texting and Driving


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Quit with the hyperbole. Your idea of gloves being the quintessential gateway between safe and unsafe is nothing more than a matter of your own personal opinion.


No it's a personal choice backed up by thousands of recorded incidents.

Ask any lineman what they think of not wearing them.

If you choose not to use them that's your choice smart or not.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> No it's a personal choice backed up by thousands of recorded incidents.
> 
> As any lineman what they think of not wearing them.
> 
> If you choose not to use them that's you choice smart or not.


 Anyone analyzing those incidents as well as any lineman will tell you that gloves are not enough. Gloves are just what you feel safe with as personal preference. 

Some of us have used gloves dozens of times but found them to be detrimental to safety in certain circumstances. It has nothing to do with being a cocky newbie or thinking so little of our personal safety.

The only fact here is that we are all wrong when it comes to personal safety procedure and PPE when tying in a service drop, gloves or not.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Anyone analyzing those incidents as well as any lineman will tell you that gloves are not enough. Gloves are just what you feel safe with as personal preference.
> 
> Some of us have used gloves dozens of times but found them to be detrimental to safety in certain circumstances. It has nothing to do with being a cocky newbie or thinking so little of our personal safety.
> 
> The only fact here is that we are all wrong when it comes to personal safety procedure and PPE when tying in a service drop, gloves or not.


I've probably only done @100 sets of service taps/connections and I've always worn gloves but still remained focused on what I was doing.

I haven't always worn safety glasses and never an arc suit of any kind.

I don't find they hinder me in any manner.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Anyone analyzing those incidents as well as any lineman will tell you that gloves are not enough. Gloves are just what you feel safe with as personal preference.
> 
> Some of us have used gloves dozens of times but *found them to be detrimental to safety in certain circumstances*. It has nothing to do with being a cocky newbie or thinking so little of our personal safety.
> 
> The only fact here is that we are all wrong when it comes to personal safety procedure and PPE when tying in a service drop, gloves or not.


Do tell 

And how do you know we are all wrong when it comes to personal safety procedures :001_huh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've probably only done @100 sets of service taps/connections and I've always worn gloves but still remained focused on what I was doing.
> 
> I haven't always worn safety glasses and never an arc suit of any kind.
> 
> I don't find they hinder me in any manner.


If you are comfortable with that, then it's the best way for you to do it. 

In the end, if we were talking about this on Mike Holt's forum, they would be telling both me and you how both of our procedures and chosen level of PPE are completely wrong and we'd get a long lesson on 70E.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> If you are comfortable with that, then it's the best way for you to do it.
> 
> In the end, if we were talking about this on Mike Holt's forum, they would be telling both me and you how both of our procedures and chosen level of PPE are completely wrong and we'd get a long lesson on 70E.


I get overheated doing some tasks with safety glasses on and they fog up and I hate that.

Full sight of what you are working on is far better than any less than that.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Do tell
> 
> And how do you know we are all wrong when it comes to personal safety procedures :001_huh:


Honestly I am with hax on this one. I never use gloves unless it is raining or something goofy like that. 
Hooking up a service drop is part of being an electrician. If that bothers you take up plumbing.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I never wear gloves either, I have EH rated boots so I do it with my feet...


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Switched said:


> I never wear gloves either, I have EH rated boots so I do it with my feet...


What a chimp out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> I never wear gloves either, I have EH rated boots so I do it with my feet...


You should wear Vibram FiveFinger shoes, it gives your toes more dexterity to make the connection better :whistling2:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Honestly I am with hax on this one. I never use gloves unless it is raining or something goofy like that.
> Hooking up a service drop is part of being an electrician. If that bothers you take up plumbing.


I haven't done many services, but I have connected them live too.
I was questioning the "gloves are detrimental to safety" statement.

I've done live work at 600V, The face shield and space suit (company rules) are a pain in the butt, but I never found any detriment to my safety when wearing gloves (apart from the dish pan hands if your in the rubber insulated gloves, and have them on too long).

Now take that fwiw ... I'm a mudder by trade, working on becoming an electrician ... but I may take your advice and look into plumbing ... or maybe HVAC.

:laughing:


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

I have to weigh in here.

I'm siding with Hack on this one.

Tying in live overhead services is a way of life for an electrician here.

One can be trained to do it safely using only his bare hands and uninsulated tools. I do it regularly. I have NEVER been shocked. The only time I ever even felt a tingle was when I did it in the rain, with a towel draped over my head.

I was taught by my father and the Journeymen in his employ, and I am convinced it is not a safety hazard. 

You just have to be disciplined.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Barjack said:


> I have to weigh in here.
> 
> I'm siding with Hack on this one.
> 
> ...


I thought if you touched an FPL service ahead of the meter you could be executed? :001_huh:


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

MTW said:


> I thought if you touched an FPL service ahead of the meter you could be executed? :001_huh:


Duke Energy, formerly Progress Energy, formerly Florida Power.

The connections at overhead services are the EC's responsibility unless the drop is bad.

We routinely inspect/repair/upgrade services without ever informing the POCO.

The linemen I have talked to do request we inform them when we've clipped the meter base seal but that's more like guidelines than actual rules.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

We have to disco/reco ourselves but we fill out an application and submit it to the PoCo with a copy of the electrical permit to get a meter pan. After the municipal inspection the Poco sends out both their meter department to check that and the wiring inspector to check the riser. If everything is good, they send back a line crew to either run a new overhead line or if the existing one is good enough they just re-do the splices with parallel groove connectors.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Barjack said:


> Duke Energy, formerly Progress Energy, formerly Florida Power.
> 
> The connections at overhead services are the EC's responsibility unless the drop is bad.
> 
> ...


Sounds just like my poco's policy, which I really like since we aren't beholden to their schedule. :thumbsup: I was told FPL doesn't not allow electricians the same leeway, but they are very punctual with cut and reconnects. 

What is TECO's policy?


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

MTW said:


> What is TECO's policy?


I wouldn't know.

TECO is Tampa.

Duke Energy is Pinellas County, where I usually work.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Barjack said:


> I wouldn't know.
> 
> TECO is Tampa.
> 
> Duke Energy is Pinellas County, where I usually work.


Oh for some reason I thought TECO covered where you work.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

MTW said:


> Oh for some reason I thought TECO covered where you work.


Welcome to my world. 

Tampa Bay is the surrounding area. Tampa is just the big city everyone from out of town assumes is the same thing.

St. Petersburg/Clearwater (Pinellas County) is where everyone wants to be (just my opinion). 

Pinellas County contains several municipalities that honestly I've lost count of.

Duke is the POCO here though.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Barjack said:


> Welcome to my world.
> 
> Tampa Bay is the surrounding area. Tampa is just the big city everyone from out of town assumes is the same thing.
> 
> St. Petersburg/Clearwater (Pinellas County) is where everyone wants to be (just my opinion).


My first few times there I thought I was in Tampa until I looked at a map and realized it was St. Petersburg. :001_unsure: I must have stopped for gas in the wrong section of St. Petersburg because I didn't want to be there. :no:


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

MTW said:


> I must have stopped for gas in the wrong section of St. Petersburg because I didn't want to be there. :no:


Gosh, I couldn't imagine where that might be..........


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Some of the linemen here can't differentiate between coax and a very burnt insulink. I've actually tried to get them out and they look at the drop and tell me it's not theirs. "Really? Those two big black wires coming from that big gray bucket looking thing, to this knob, over to this pipe, that runs into the top of the electric meter? That's not yours?"

How do you guys need all that PPE? I always wear rubber insulated hot work gloves with the leather over them just in case (since there's no off switch heh heh), but if you are using decent connectors, it's kinda tough to get zapped. I use the insulink connectors with a burndy OH25 crimper. I do all the ones on the riser first since they are cold, then the grounded, then the ungrounded. The only time anything is exposed is that short time where you strip the end of the drop and jam it in the cap of the insulink.


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## lightman (Oct 14, 2015)

As a retired service man I have connected hundreds of hot services. I'm old school and until close to the end of my career, when rules started being enforced, I did them with leather gloves. One thing to remember is that you are basically working on an unfused conductor. Sure, the transformer is fused on the primary side, but its probably not going to see any trouble that you get into. On our system that 10 amp fuse if going to need 690 amps at 120 volts to blow! If you let a hot lead get away from you its going to weld itself to the neutral and melt the wire, or built a heck of a fire in your face. 

When I disconnect a service, I cut the hot wires first, one at a time and tape the ends up or bend them up out of the way. I cut the neutral last. When connecting a hot service I connect the neutral first. Then I connect the hot conductors. I strip the dead conductors first, check continuity between the hot service conductor and make the connection. Keep your head and arms off of the service neutral and the house.

Insulinks are easier to use than the bare parallel groove connectors and don't require tape. But I think the PG type connector makes a better connection. If you care about the life of the job, wire brush the aluminum conductor before you make the connection.

In my area, the service wire is furnished by the POCO and we wanted to do the disconnect and reconnect. We frowned on EC's making these connections and company policy pretty much required us to redo any connections that EC's made on our services. Rules differ in different locations. 

While I made many hot connections with leather gloves and even bare handed, its foolish to not use any any PPE available to you. Rubber gloves and safety glasses serve a useful purpose. 

As far as OSHA and the POCO goes, its allowed because we were provided documented training and suitable PPE.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I do the opposite of the normal order when cutting or reconnecting a service.

First I make sure that the meter is out and the lines go no where. Then I cut the neutral first, I do this because I want that bare wire out of the way. I will bend it far back out of the way, taping it if necessary. Now I could work on the hots without that bare conductor so close.

The same thing when reconnecting. I keep the neutral out of the way while I splice the hots. Once the hots are done and insulated nice and tight, I will connect the neutral.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I do the opposite of the normal order when cutting or reconnecting a service.
> 
> First I make sure that the meter is out and the lines go no where. Then I cut the neutral first, I do this because I want that bare wire out of the way. I will bend it far back out of the way, taping it if necessary. Now I could work on the hots without that bare conductor so close.
> 
> The same thing when reconnecting. I keep the neutral out of the way while I splice the hots. Once the hots are done and insulated nice and tight, I will connect the neutral.


That's how I do it now too. I like the extra margin using the burndy crimping tool with the bare nuetral nice and out of the way. Kind of like connecting the ground last when swapping receptacles or switches live.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I do the opposite of the normal order when cutting or reconnecting a service.
> 
> First I make sure that the meter is out and the lines go no where. Then I cut the neutral first, I do this because I want that bare wire out of the way. I will bend it far back out of the way, taping it if necessary. Now I could work on the hots without that bare conductor so close.
> 
> The same thing when reconnecting. I keep the neutral out of the way while I splice the hots. Once the hots are done and insulated nice and tight, I will connect the neutral.


While I see your reasoning it seems contrary to all training I've ever heard of.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> While I see your reasoning it seems contrary to all training I've ever heard of.


 True, but not everything is black-and-white. This is definitely a gray area. The normal procedure make sense in most situations, however in this one there's a stronger reason to cut the neutral first and splice it last.

In this instance we are talking about a service riser that you have full control of and could see the entire way. That's why I mentioned making sure the lines go nowhere, that they end in the meter pan. There's no load connected and no chance of something coming back on the neutral.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> True, but not everything is black-and-white. This is definitely a gray area. The normal procedure make sense in most situations, however in this one there's a stronger reason to cut the neutral first and splice it last.
> 
> In this instance we are talking about a service riser that you have full control of and could see the entire way. That's why I mentioned making sure the lines go nowhere, that they end in the meter pan. There's no load connected and no chance of something coming back on the neutral.


Oh I do see your point.


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

In BC Canada the Utility BC Hydro would not entertain you doing any drop from their transformers ...sometimes in a remote type situation pulling the meter ....with their permission ...is okay .Often that is a no go as well !
When I worked for a city utility even wearing 25Kv gloves and gauntlets I wasn't a happy guy handling 7.2Kv ....but I certainly even wore the gloves and face shield even for a resi drop connect ;because I saw a guy brush the neutral onto one of the hot feeders and it was not nice at all !


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