# Owner's Panels



## lightningboltsarefun (Dec 26, 2013)

When are owner's panels required for 2-family or 3-family dwellings? Does it matter whether the home owner is including electric in the price of the rent or not?


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

The NEC requires a separate owners panel to power common area stuff. But oddly enough, that is very rarely done here in NJ. Most 2 family houses only have 2 meters, I guess the first floor tenant pays for the outside/hallway/basement lights.

Here's the code:



> 210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than
> One Occupancy.
> (A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in
> each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling
> ...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

That specific language only goes back to 1993. Before that, it gets vague as to it's intent to separate tenant & house loads.

So any multi-family dwelling built before the adoption of the 1993 NEC may not have a house panel. And some AHJs took several years to finally adopt the '93. It's entirely possible a duplex built in 2000 may have been wired under the 1990.


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## lightningboltsarefun (Dec 26, 2013)

But when is it required? Is it once a home owners decides to upgrade electrical or is it just whenever a home owner decides to rent out anything more than a single family.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

That would be a question best posed to the AHJ.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

lightningboltsarefun said:


> But when is it required? Is it once a home owners decides to upgrade electrical or is it just whenever a home owner decides to rent out anything more than a single family.


I don't know what they would actually do. Is the NEC going to be enforced when no electrical work is being done, no permits pulled, or no inspection performed? Probably not. But what about the inspector who will do the CofO? Will he notice it and require it? What process needs to be done to turn this into a legal 2 family in order to rent it out? Who will oversee it and how far will he look into it?

I think there are a lot of variables and many different possible outcomes.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

lightningboltsarefun said:


> But when is it required? Is it once a home owners decides to upgrade electrical or is it just whenever a home owner decides to rent out anything more than a single family.


I think it is unethical to make one tenant pay for something other tenants use. Imagine if there was a shared laundry space. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

They could do what I found (the hard way!) in a duplex.... run those circuits from BOTH tenants panels, through breakers on the same phase.


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## lightningboltsarefun (Dec 26, 2013)

I my situation the owner includes electric with the price of the rent. So all the electric bills come in his name. So the renters are paying a flat rate every month no matter what.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

lightningboltsarefun said:


> I my situation the owner includes electric with the price of the rent. So all the electric bills come in his name. So the renters are paying a flat rate every month no matter what.


The NEC doesn't have a provision for that. It says that common space stuff can't be powered by the equipment power individual tenant spaces. No mention or regard to who is paying for what.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

^^^ That.

And, ownership can and most likely will change in the future and there is no guarantee that the same billing arrangement will be kept.

Pete


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> They could do what I found (the hard way!) in a duplex.... run those circuits from BOTH tenants panels, through breakers on the same phase.


I hear a story, care to elaborate?


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> They could do what I found (the hard way!) in a duplex.... run those circuits from BOTH tenants panels, through breakers on the same phase.


That's a trouble shooting nightmare!


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

lightningboltsarefun said:


> When are owner's panels required for 2-family or 3-family dwellings? Does it matter whether the home owner is including electric in the price of the rent or not?


I ran into this in Massachusetts recently. I completely rewired a 2 family that didn't have a house panel. The inspector said I didn't have to install one. But he informed me that the owner needs to write a letter to the building department and the tenants Informing them of circuits that are on their panel. I put the little common area lighting that there was on the homeowners apartments panel in case deadbeats didn't pay electric bill and henceforth no lights in hallway.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We're lousy older large K&T nightmares cut up into 4-6 units via some overstuffed antiquated services

Inasmuch as an _'owners panel'_ is prudent, the state has it's hands full trying to keep up with the simpler life safety stuff, smokes & gfci's 

~CS~


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

NEC language aside, around here the AHJ (strangely) leaves that option up to the LL. If there's things like a common electric water heater and common furnace, common area lights, common fire alarm, I approach it as if I'm going to put in an owner's panel, unless the LL specifically says otherwise. I do this only because the inspectors in my area don't much care if there's an owner's panel or not.


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