# 210.8(D) (D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection shall be provided for



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

210.8 (D) (D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers installed in dwelling unit locations.


So if the dishwasher is hard wired, does it still need GFCI protection?

I say no, because there would be no outlet to plug into.

What say you?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Go look up the definition of outlet in the code book. Your three wire nuts at the end of your flex or romex become the outlet in my so very very humble opinion.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I think the intent of the code rule is to require GFCI protection for all dishwashers (  ) but as the wording stands, hardwiring might be the loophole.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

From article 100 Outlet - a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.



I'm ten years out from buying a 2014 code book so I have no idea what it says in the section about using a gfi on all dishwashers.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> 210.8 (D) (D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers installed in dwelling unit locations. So if the dishwasher is hard wired, does it still need GFCI protection? I say no, because there would be no outlet to plug into. What say you?


Inspectors here said yes to GF a hardwired DW.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> From article 100 Outlet - a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ten years out from buying a 2014 code book so I have no idea what it says in the section about using a gfi on all dishwashers.


The article is in post one.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Is the internal junction box on a dishwasher an outlet? :001_huh:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Harry, I showed you that you need to do it. Quit looking for an out or else move to Maui, they are on the 05...


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Harry, I showed you that you need to do it. Quit looking for an out or else move to Maui, they are on the 05...


I'm still looking for that elusive part of the country that is on the '93.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> Is the internal junction box on a dishwasher an outlet? :001_huh:


What did I tell you just now........ damn apprentices....


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> What did I tell you just now........ damn apprentices....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I said it was the wire nuts at the end of the flex or nmb or whatever else you are supplying current to the point of utilization.........:whistling2:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

I think Macmikeman is on point.

Pete


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

So then I would have to make it cord and plug, so that I can have a GFCI receptacle, because the circuit must be AFCI too, so I cannot have the receptacle behind the dish washer either:no:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MTW said:


> I'm still looking for that elusive part of the country that is on the '93.


I totally agree. The 93 was one of the better codes they ever put out. People could things fast. Hell I still use it when I want to look something up fast.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> So then I would have to make it cord and plug, so that I can have a GFCI receptacle, because the circuit must be AFCI too, so I cannot have the receptacle behind the dish washer either:no:


If the DW is beside the sink cabinet you could put a GFI receptacle under the sink and route the cord that way but I thought there was a manufacturer (thought I read it here on this site) that is or has came out with a combo GFCI/AFCI breaker?

Pete


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> If the DW is beside the sink cabinet you could put a GFI receptacle under the sink and route the cord that way but I thought there was a manufacturer (thought I read it here on this site) that is or has came out with a combo GFCI/AFCI breaker?
> 
> Pete


Just square D I'm have a Murray panel, this is fed by an old 12/3. These bozos cut the old Romex whip to the DW at the wall, maybe the inspector will let that slide with just the GFCI .


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Square D has the combo breakers, but are backordered over 1000 units.:whistling2:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

A phone call to the inspector may be in order. If the inspector wont let it slide you can always tell whoever is paying the bill that the inspector is demanding it.

People use me that way all the time.:laughing:

Pete


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> A phone call to the inspector may be in order. If the inspector wont let it slide you can always tell whoever is paying the bill that the inspector is demanding it.
> 
> People use me that way all the time.:laughing:
> 
> Pete


Oh yeah!....:laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

gfci needs to be installed for dishwasher whether it is hardwired or not.The jb on the dishwasher is an outlet.


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## 120/208 (Nov 18, 2012)

Arc fault and Gfci protection required if you are using the 2014 NEC.


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

stupid jargon.. yea i thought "outlet" meant receptacle.. definitions clearly proved me wrong. ::grumbles:: DW plugged into GFCI for you im afraid. first thought was hardwire to jump thru that.. oh well.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> Just square D I'm have a Murray panel, this is fed by an old 12/3. These bozos cut the old Romex whip to the DW at the wall, maybe the inspector will let that slide with just the GFCI .


 AFCI to faceless GFI next to panel and hardwire DW


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> AFCI to faceless GFI next to panel and hardwire DW


Faceless costs more here and kinda hard to find . Plain old gfi recept next to panel , nothing says yet it has to be dedicated as far as I know.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

> AFCI to faceless GFI next to panel and hardwire DW


I just saw an example similar to that in EC&M. They showed a combo AFCI and GFI faceless on the counter above the DW. I thought that was a good idea if they made them!
I like your idea better.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

QUOTE=Black Dog;1321851]Just square D I'm have a Murray panel, this is fed by an old 12/3. These bozos cut the old Romex whip to the DW at the wall, maybe the inspector will let that slide with just the GFCI .[/QUOTE]






These are the guys that I've been competing with for years. :whistling2: :laughing:


Stop trying to out bozo the bozos. Do it right.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Sq. D makes a gfci and afci combo breaker. I am sure others will follow. Personally I may use an afci breaker and install a faceless gfci under the kitchen sink near the doors.


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## chris.b (Jan 28, 2013)

You still have to have a disconnect at the dishwasher.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chris.b said:


> You still have to have a disconnect at the dishwasher.


Most faceless GFCI devices are listed as disconects.


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## chris.b (Jan 28, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Most faceless GFCI devices are listed as disconects.


Yes, but the op said hardwired with no mention of it and said there was no outlet. Some places here won't pass the cord and receptacle in the next cabinet. They say you have to SEE it.Cord can't be longer than 3 ft. You are too stupid to look for it. Theyare just protecting you from yourself.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chris.b said:


> Yes, but the op said hardwired with no mention of it and said there was no outlet. Some places here won't pass the cord and receptacle in the next cabinet. They say you have to SEE it.Cord can't be longer than 3 ft. You are too stupid to look for it. Theyare just protecting you from yourself.



Just because there's no receptacle doesn't mean there's no outlet.


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## chris.b (Jan 28, 2013)

Exactly. I was just repeating what he said.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

At first we hard wired them , then I was told it needed a means of disconnect so it was fed from a switch and that became a outlet behind the appliance and the appliance co puts a cord. Never had an insp. Say not to

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