# Baldor or Leeson



## dbrowning52FL (Oct 15, 2015)

hello gents,

Im getting a motor but cant choose between baldor and leeson so Id figure I might try to ask

here:
Single HP
1725 or 1800 RPM
Three Phase
TEFC preferred
56C frame size

Is one of the other manufacturers preferred regarding a smaller motor? Ill be shipping this to

my shop back home, when I go back so Id most likely order online.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I'd flip a coin, myself.


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## triden (Jun 13, 2012)

Whichever one you can get the best price on.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Pretty much the same product. Although Baldor is now ABB and Leeson is now Regal-Beloit, their history is joined literally by blood. Baldor was started by 2 guys named Ballman and Doerr in the 1920s. Doerr died and Ballman took over. Doerr's son, Lee, left and took the motor designs his father had developed, and started a separate company called Doerr Electric with his two sons. Baldor sued them and they had to close down, but his sons just started their own company, calling it Leeson for "Lee's Sons", using the exact motor designs they had worked with at Doerr Electric so they interchanged in every way. Pretty much nothing has changed besides ownership.

I used to attend EASA (motor shop industry assoc.) conventions every year and there was a long running, and fun, rivalry between the two companies as to who could throw the best party at the conventions. Everyone benefitted from that.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

1hp?
That's "disposable" level hp. Whatever's easier/cheaper/free.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

JRaef said:


> Pretty much the same product. Although Baldor is now ABB and Leeson is now Regal-Beloit, their history is joined literally by blood. Baldor was started by 2 guys named Ballman and Doerr in the 1920s. Doerr died and Ballman took over. Doerr's son, Lee, left and took the motor designs his father had developed, and started a separate company called Doerr Electric with his two sons. Baldor sued them and they had to close down, but his sons just started their own company, calling it Leeson for "Lee's Sons", using the exact motor designs they had worked with at Doerr Electric so they interchanged in every way. Pretty much nothing has changed besides ownership.
> 
> I used to attend EASA (motor shop industry assoc.) conventions every year and there was a long running, and fun, rivalry between the two companies as to who could throw the best party at the conventions. Everyone benefitted from that.


What are these manufacturers doing to the motors when they're saying they're more efficient or energy saving?


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Lep said:


> What are these manufacturers doing to the motors when they're saying they're more efficient or energy saving?


In school I was told the rotor bars are larger and made of diecast copper instead of aluminum, and also larger gauge stator windings with smaller core laminations.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The highest efficiency motors also benefit from the most exotic silicon steel alloys.

These are evolutionary from the prior art. They simply have even smaller micro grain structure that further reduces eddy current losses.

This enhanced silicon steel is largely behind the extra low impedance transformers, too.

What exactly they're doing to achieve this is largely proprietary. It results in one of the most profitable product lines the steel industry has that also has volume. 

The magic obviously must be in the heat treatment, as everybody can reverse engineer the alloy, itself.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> In school I was told the rotor bars are larger and made of diecast copper instead of aluminum, and also larger gauge stator windings with smaller core laminations.





telsa said:


> The highest efficiency motors also benefit from the most exotic silicon steel alloys.
> 
> These are evolutionary from the prior art. They simply have even smaller micro grain structure that further reduces eddy current losses.
> 
> ...


It's those things, and more. Smaller air gap is almost universal, which means better bearings with closer tolerances. Better winding techniques to avoid air gaps in the windings is another. Some even go so far as to incorporate aerodynamics to reduce windage losses. I took a class a few years ago put on by the EPRI (Electric Power Research Institute, which is local to me) on energy efficient motor design ideas and how they are different. It was put on for motor designers, but I attended to be able to understand the control and protection issues that come with them (and because someone else paid for it). I was amazed at some of the seemingly trivial stuff some mfrs were doing. But if you get down to it, going from 80% efficient to 90% efficient is a lot easier than going from 90% to 91%, because the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Everything they do has trade-offs; in terms of cost, performance, or introducing new problems. So each mfr does a balancing act between the issues that makes them all a little different.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JRaef said:


> I used to attend EASA (motor shop industry assoc.) conventions every year and there was a long running, and fun, rivalry between the two companies as to who could throw the best party at the conventions. Everyone benefitted from that.


The last EASA convention I attended was in Myrtle Beach.
It was a hell of a party. They all are. 
Not sure how or if we accomplished very much, but we had fun and had the ability to meet many members we only knew from phone calls..

BTW EASA stands for _electric apparatus service association_. In other words "motor shop". 



Lep said:


> What are these manufacturers doing to the motors when they're saying they're more efficient or energy saving?


They were forced by the government to meet certain efficiency standards just like household appliances. E-Pact.
The one change that threw a wrench into the machine was the "C" frame dimension.
Lots of exact frame motors no longer fit where non-epact exact frame motors would. They were longer as manufacturers needed more cooling and were able to get it with larger shaft fans.


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## MikeMinHTown (Oct 11, 2015)

Wow. ^ you guys are the coolest. i was going to say that i have a bunch of baldor DC motors in the shop, and they work great with the occasional brush change... and I had a poorly designed machine pushing another brand motor too hard, and our only frame replacement.....baldor....


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> ...
> The one change that threw a wrench into the machine was the "C" frame dimension.
> Lots of exact frame motors no longer fit where non-epact exact frame motors would. They were longer as manufacturers needed more cooling and were able to get it with larger shaft fans.


That was one monkey wrench. Another one is that because if the reconfigured windings and materials, the magnetic inrush current can be a LOT higher than it was, causing fuses and circuit breakers to clear where they didn't used to with the old motor being replaced. That is what prompted the NEC to add the exception allowing up to 1700% for MCPs if proven to cause nuisance tripping, where it had previously been 1300% max. In some cases, it means going up by one frame size of breaker in order to get the Mag-Trip adjustments to go high enough, which then has a cascading effect on enclosure fit, wire bending space, handle mechanisms etc. etc. I've lost some hair over that in the past 2 decades.

Insider trick if any of you ever run into that issue: Change out the MCP with a Thermal Mag breaker. Even though the mag trips will be the same for the same frame size, it works. My suspicion is that by adding in the thermal trip sensing element, it adds enough internal impedance to knock the magnetic inrush down to a more reasonable level. I learned that trick about 10 years ago from someone else in the field and so far, it has worked every time. I've never done it with an Electronic Trip breaker, but I suspect it may not help because the thermal trip is not a bi-metal element, it's just a CT or Hall Effect sensor; no impedance.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Baldor and Leeson are my two favorite brands; it's always tough to choose between them. 

One thing that will sway my choice; the conduit entry. 

Both brands cast-iron models have a terminal box that can be easily rotated in 90º increments, meaning that the incoming flex, cord, etc., can enter from the bottom, top, front or back. 

The Leeson rolled steel frames (both ODP and TEFC) with a side-mount terminal box will have knockouts in all 4 directions while the Baldors can be fed from either the top or bottom but not front or back. Some Baldor boxes can be drilled for small KOs on the sides, but not all. This can be a problem because the majority of motors I hook up are fed from the back; there isn't a lot of room on the bottom and I don't like using flex or sealtite 90s. 

In my experience, both Baldor and Leeson can take more abuse than any other brand I've seen. 

Regardless of brand, if it's a small motor with the terminal box built into the non-drive end bell, stay away from terminal boards. I've seen more than a few of these burn up. Also, use the smallest wire that you can, making up splices in the end bell is a real trick with big wire.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

JRaef said:


> That was one monkey wrench. Another one is that because if the reconfigured windings and materials, the magnetic inrush current can be a LOT higher than it was, causing fuses and circuit breakers to clear where they didn't used to with the old motor being replaced. That is what prompted the NEC to add the exception allowing up to 1700% for MCPs if proven to cause nuisance tripping, where it had previously been 1300% max. In some cases, it means going up by one frame size of breaker in order to get the Mag-Trip adjustments to go high enough, which then has a cascading effect on enclosure fit, wire bending space, handle mechanisms etc. etc. I've lost some hair over that in the past 2 decades.
> 
> Insider trick if any of you ever run into that issue: Change out the MCP with a Thermal Mag breaker. Even though the mag trips will be the same for the same frame size, it works. My suspicion is that by adding in the thermal trip sensing element, it adds enough internal impedance to knock the magnetic inrush down to a more reasonable level. I learned that trick about 10 years ago from someone else in the field and so far, it has worked every time. I've never done it with an Electronic Trip breaker, but I suspect it may not help because the thermal trip is not a bi-metal element, it's just a CT or Hall Effect sensor; no impedance.


This is a very good reason to use small wire for motors. Providing the most possible impedance during starting is usually a good idea, if nothing else, it'll reduce the mechanical stress of the magnetizing current on both the rotor and especially the stator. 

Plus, the impedance of smaller wire may very well be the difference between a breaker tripping or holding.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

In about 2 or 3 years it will be 40 years since the last time I rewound a electric induction motor.

JRaef, I've been spending a lot of time lately goofing off at the San Leandro marina just down the way from Koffler electric motors. 
:laughing::laughing:

Back in the day there was a lady that lives down the street from them.She would rewind smaller fractional motors at her own shop in her garage( think she wound motors from back in the 30's) she was an artist at winding.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MikeMinHTown said:


> Wow. ^ you guys are the coolest. i was going to say that i have a bunch of baldor DC motors in the shop, and they work great with the occasional brush change... and I had a poorly designed machine pushing another brand motor too hard, and our only frame replacement.....baldor....





Lep said:


> In about 2 or 3 years it will be 40 years since the last time I rewound a electric induction motor.
> 
> JRaef, I've been spending a lot of time lately goofing off at the San Leandro marina just down the way from Koffler electric motors.
> :laughing::laughing:
> ...


We also had a lady that worked in our shop. She was Japanese and did all the resolvers and tiny DC generator feedback devices.
It was amazing to watch her work with such tiny wire.
One little nick and lights out.

Jraef or Rob. I thought Leeson was building their motors in China now?
When I left this business, Baldor was the only company still building their motors in the US.
I know Baldor servo's were built overseas, but every thing else was built here?

For the DC comment. I don't think DC motors fall under NEMA frame requirements. I think each manufacturer can build any size DC motor on any size frame they want?
Kinda like ac motors above 500HP.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> ...
> Jraef or Rob. I thought Leeson was building their motors in China now?
> When I left this business, Baldor was the only company still building their motors in the US.
> I know Baldor servo's were built overseas, but every thing else was built here?...


Don't know. I haven't had the pleasure of attending an EASA convention for almost 10 years now, I kind of miss it. 

But I did a project last year that had 80 little 2HP evap cooler motors on it, all Baldor, all Inverter Duty. They had over 30 failures in the first 4 months. I dissected one of the motors for them because the local motor shop told them they were single phasing (it turned out to be first-turn shorting, not single phasing). The contractor had screwed up the installation in terms of wiring etc. and the reflected waves killed the motors. The thing I did notice though, was that those small Baldor motors were made in China, not Ft. Smith, AR. I think that has become unavoidable on cheap stuff like OEM motors. 

No idea on Leeson's origins. The only interaction I have with them now is that our company is "partners" (supposedly) with Marathon motors. But a couple of times when I have gone to search for data on a particular motor on the Marathon website, the data sheet I get back is from Leeson or Lincoln, who are all now owned by Regal-Beloit. Most likely the names mean nothing any more...


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

JRaef What's "first turn shorting?


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Starting from "Reflected Wave Phenomenon", the high voltage pulses that they can cause get into the motor windings and if they are higher than the insulation rating, or at least high enough to cause a partial corona discharge effect and weaken the insulation in the magnet wire, it eventually shorts from turn-to-turn, meaning everything that WAS going through those turns is now jumping straight across the hole. because that is a "weakest link" phenomenon, it tends to happen in the first thinner point in the magnet wire, which is where it make the first turn after coming off of the connection terminals. 

Classic picture:









From here.

The reason it tends to ONLY happen there is, because once it DOES happen there, it no longer NEEDS to happen anywhere else, because that shorted winding makes the entire circuit different now.

I actually posted a picture of the failure I saw on the Baldor motors to another site, but I'm at work now and that site gets blocked by my company server for some reason (probably ads), so I can't post it. I'll do it from home later if anyone is interested.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I've installed about a dozen or so Leeson motors in the last year or so, near as I can tell, the 48, 56 and 140 frame models are made in USA, the 180 and larger come from Mexico or China.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

JRaef said:


> Starting from "Reflected Wave Phenomenon", the high voltage pulses that they can cause get into the motor windings and if they are higher than the insulation rating, or at least high enough to cause a partial corona discharge effect and weaken the insulation in the magnet wire, it eventually shorts from turn-to-turn, meaning everything that WAS going through those turns is now jumping straight across the hole. because that is a "weakest link" phenomenon, it tends to happen in the first thinner point in the magnet wire, which is where it make the first turn after coming off of the connection terminals.
> 
> Classic picture:
> 
> ...



From that picture it looks like that's the actual "in hand" or wires coming off of that group on that side of the group. Then there's the back side line coming off of the group also. Does the actual coil shaping machine kind of stretch the wire when your making coils and groups for winding the motor? Thus weakening the magnetic wire?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

JRaef said:


> Starting from "Reflected Wave Phenomenon", the high voltage pulses that they can cause get into the motor windings and if they are higher than the insulation rating, or at least high enough to cause a partial corona discharge effect and weaken the insulation in the magnet wire, it eventually shorts from turn-to-turn, meaning everything that WAS going through those turns is now jumping straight across the hole. because that is a "weakest link" phenomenon, it tends to happen in the first thinner point in the magnet wire, which is where it make the first turn after coming off of the connection terminals.
> 
> Classic picture:
> 
> ...


If memory serves me correctly isn't a single phasing typically will show up as groups in the stator? In other words the groups that are on that face will also signs of heat or burning throughout the stator winding?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Lep said:


> If memory serves me correctly isn't a single phasing typically will show up as groups in the stator? In other words the groups that are on that face will also signs of heat or burning throughout the stator winding?


Typically, when a ∆ wound motor is single phased to the point it burns up, one entire coil will be discolored. If it's Y, 2 coils will be cooked. 

The pic shown is a classic case of voltage spikes jumping through the insulation into adjacent winding turns. This happened very rarely before VFDs, now it's pretty common. 

Long runs with no load reactor will pretty much guarantee such a failure, even if the motor is wound with spike-resistant magnet wire.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JRaef said:


> Don't know. I haven't had the pleasure of attending an EASA convention for almost 10 years now, I kind of miss it.


Did you ever meet Roland Boreham? Former Baldor president and CEO? I still have a picture taken with him accepting my "service center" credentials years ago.
I was very hung over the day of the picture. So glad there was a plane waiting as I could have never made another 8 hour class after that night.



micromind said:


> I've installed about a dozen or so Leeson motors in the last year or so, near as I can tell, the 48, 56 and 140 frame models are made in USA, the 180 and larger come from Mexico or China.


Not so long ago, everything under 50 HP was built in Ft. Smith Ark.



Lep said:


> From that picture it looks like that's the actual "in hand" or wires coming off of that group on that side of the group. Then there's the back side line coming off of the group also. Does the actual coil shaping machine kind of stretch the wire when your making coils and groups for winding the motor? Thus weakening the magnetic wire?


This is pure electrical. Inverter spiking to be exact.
When we would wind motors we knew were going to VFD applications, we used spike resistant inverter wire and actually double insulated the first few turns to try and minimize the problem pictured above.



Lep said:


> If memory serves me correctly isn't a single phasing typically will show up as groups in the stator? In other words the groups that are on that face will also signs of heat or burning throughout the stator winding?





micromind said:


> Typically, when a ∆ wound motor is single phased to the point it burns up, one entire coil will be discolored. If it's Y, 2 coils will be cooked.
> 
> The pic shown is a classic case of voltage spikes jumping through the insulation into adjacent winding turns. This happened very rarely before VFDs, now it's pretty common.
> 
> Long runs with no load reactor will pretty much guarantee such a failure, even if the motor is wound with spike-resistant magnet wire.


Heres a few pictures and descriptions of motor winding failure for EASA's technical library.
Ask your motor shop guy for the flyer. The pictures are better.

http://www.easa.com/resources/booklet/FailuresInThreePhaseStatorWindings


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> Did you ever meet Roland Boreham? Former Baldor president and CEO? I still have a picture taken with him accepting my "service center" credentials years ago.
> I was very hung over the day of the picture. So glad there was a plane waiting as I could have never made another 8 hour class after that night.
> 
> 
> ...


My winding career was pre frequency controler ( or was in the early stages),95% of our motors were star connected.200-300 hp. 480/240 were our largest motors we did. We didn't do too bad for a three man shop me doing the bulk of the winding with a lady that would come in and wind the small motors and help me with the overload. We farmed out Any armature rewind. They OJT me on the winding I picked it up pretty quick I was right out of high school 17 years old

How do you double insulate the first few turns of a group?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lep said:


> My winding career was pre frequency controler ( or was in the early stages),95% of our motors were star connected.200-300 hp. 480/240 were our largest motors we did. We didn't do too bad for a three man shop me doing the bulk of the winding with a lady that would come in and wind the small motors and help me with the overload. We farmed out Any armature rewind. They OJT me on the winding I picked it up pretty quick I was right out of high school 17 years old
> 
> How do you double insulate the first few turns of a group?


Our shop had a single phase dept and a DC dept along with the three phase mechanical and wind shop.
We did some servo work and did some mechanical work.

You know the round insulating sleeve that comes on rolls? The winder would slide the sleeve over enough to cover that first turn or so.
It would get tied down if that helps you to get a mental picture.

When I was doing this kind of work, we used class H insulation across the board and only used high voltage wire (spike resistant) when we were asked to use it.
They very well may be using spike resistant wire across the board now. Its not as easy to work with as regular magnet wire.

For the record "Spike Resistant" wire was a Baldor trademark product, although other manufacturers make it calling it different names.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

We had a funky old burnout oven that the 6 inch exhaust pipe just went through the wall to the outside. There is a California Highway Patrol office right next to us. We had an emergency totally encapsulated winding motor about 75 horsepower we told the boss you better not burn it out during the day but he did and all the smoke went straight over to the Highway Patrol office. I mean he had that place smoked out. The next week the Bay Area air pollution Control came by and my boss/owner had to buy a new burnout oven with afterburners ,sophisticated controls, etc. ( this was around 1976)
:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lep said:


> We had a funky old burnout oven that the 6 inch exhaust pipe just went through the wall to the outside. There is a California Highway Patrol office right next to us. We had an emergency totally encapsulated winding motor about 75 horsepower we told the boss you better not burn it out during the day but he did and all the smoke went straight over to the Highway Patrol office. I mean he had that place smoked out. The next week the Bay Area air pollution Control came by and my boss/owner had to buy a new burnout oven with afterburners ,sophisticated controls, etc. ( this was around 1976)
> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


Wow! Hell of a way to get a new burnout oven!


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## MikeMinHTown (Oct 11, 2015)

John Valdes said:


> For the DC comment. I don't think DC motors fall under NEMA frame requirements. I think each manufacturer can build any size DC motor on any size frame they want?
> Kinda like ac motors above 500HP.


:laughing:
Busted. My Baldor "upgrade" was actually 120AC single phase now that you metion it... wish I could remember the brand on the one we tossed in the recycle bin... it was eating capacitors for breakfast lunch and dinner until we ran out... over the weekend, in a bind, we bought the closest motor that would replace it...the Baldor. machine has been running like a scalded cat ever since...


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Lep said:


> We had a funky old burnout oven that the 6 inch exhaust pipe just went through the wall to the outside. There is a California Highway Patrol office right next to us. We had an emergency totally encapsulated winding motor about 75 horsepower we told the boss you better not burn it out during the day but he did and all the smoke went straight over to the Highway Patrol office. I mean he had that place smoked out. The next week the Bay Area air pollution Control came by and my boss/owner had to buy a new burnout oven with afterburners ,sophisticated controls, etc. ( this was around 1976)
> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:



ha ha kinda like when our welding shop needed to repair a lot of cast iron parts using super cast brand rods!

the odor wafted into the plant managers office:laughing:

the fragrance of the flux burning is redolent of burning cow dung!

He had new evac fans and hoods delivered the next day:thumbup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MikeMinHTown said:


> :laughing:
> Busted. My Baldor "upgrade" was actually 120AC single phase now that you metion it... wish I could remember the brand on the one we tossed in the recycle bin... it was eating capacitors for breakfast lunch and dinner until we ran out... over the weekend, in a bind, we bought the closest motor that would replace it...the Baldor. machine has been running like a scalded cat ever since...


Glad you mention that because I was busted on my comment.
Many permanent magnet 90 volt and 180 volt DC motors come on standard 56 and 56C frames. :thumbsup:


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> Glad you mention that because I was busted on my comment.
> Many permanent magnet 90 volt and 180 volt DC motors come on standard 56 and 56C frames. :thumbsup:


John ,where did you get your training?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lep said:


> John ,where did you get your training?


OTJ.
From the railroad to construction. From construction to manufacturing and from manufacturing to a distributor (motor and drive shop) that was my vendor. I got my license during my time in manufacturing.
I'm no winder and my job in the motor shop was as a manager and a sales rep. 
Back then we were winding only about 40% of the motor that came in. We sold lots of new motors. 
We also did drives and gearing. My specialty was drives and controls.
How bout you Lep?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> OTJ.
> From the railroad to construction. From construction to manufacturing and from manufacturing to a distributor (motor and drive shop) that was my vendor. I got my license during my time in manufacturing.
> I'm no winder and my job in the motor shop was as a manager and a sales rep.
> Back then we were winding only about 40% of the motor that came in. We sold lots of new motors.
> ...


OJT
Then there was a night school that had electrical class motor classes I did that and got general ed classes at local JC. Then went through a local JC Electrical program 2 years. I think I could have used some more motor classes,maybe comprehensive control classes.
I would have loved to have been a Sales Engineer selling motors, w/ degree and all. But it's pretty high pressure I think. I think I would just like to sell solar systems now I have a thread going with that title don't know if I'll get any good suggestions or not. I kind of don't like pushing the Tools anymore.

My friends would ask me what I was doing and I would tell them winding electric motors they would look at me funny.
:laughing::laughing:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lep said:


> OJT
> Then there was a night school that had electrical class motor classes I did that and got general ed classes at local JC. Then went through a local JC Electrical program 2 years. I think I could have used some more motor classes,maybe comprehensive control classes.
> I would have loved to have been a Sales Engineer selling motors, w/ degree and all. But it's pretty high pressure I think. I think I would just like to sell solar systems now I have a thread going with that title don't know if I'll get any good suggestions or not. I kind of don't like pushing the Tools anymore.
> 
> ...


I was one of a very few that got to be in a sales position without a college degree. You see I got lucky.
As I was buying drives and motors to install in manufacturing, I got very familiar with not only the distributors, but the manufacturer's.
When I quit the plant job, they called me up. Offered me a job.
It was lots of fun, but it was a very demanding job.
My quota was $104,000 a month.
Not easy to sleep when you are expected to bring in this amount every month.
For those not familiar with a quota. 
Its what you must bring in BEFORE you start to collect any commission.

The motor shop is one of the craziest places in the world to work. I have no idea even to this day where these people came from. :laughing:


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

In the ninety's I tried to get a job selling air conditioners systems for Sears I couldn't even do that. Talk to the sales guy several times (sales manager ) couldn't get my foot in the door.
:laughing::laughing:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lep said:


> In the ninety's I tried to get a job selling air conditioners systems for Sears I couldn't even do that. Talk to the sales guy several times (sales manager ) couldn't get my foot in the door.
> :laughing::laughing:


Its not for everyone either.
And he most likely did you a big favor! :thumbsup:


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## garmasters (Jul 21, 2014)

*Abb???*



JRaef said:


> Pretty much the same product. Although Baldor is now ABB and Leeson is now Regal-Beloit, their history is joined literally by blood. Baldor was started by 2 guys named Ballman and Doerr in the 1920s. Doerr died and Ballman took over. Doerr's son, Lee, left and took the motor designs his father had developed, and started a separate company called Doerr Electric with his two sons. Baldor sued them and they had to close down, but his sons just started their own company, calling it Leeson for "Lee's Sons", using the exact motor designs they had worked with at Doerr Electric so they interchanged in every way. Pretty much nothing has changed besides ownership.
> 
> I used to attend EASA (motor shop industry assoc.) conventions every year and there was a long running, and fun, rivalry between the two companies as to who could throw the best party at the conventions. Everyone benefitted from that.


If this is the same "ABB" that's made in Sweden I'd go way out of my way to go with Leeson. All the disconnects/contactors from ABB I've seen are cheap plastic junk - they work when brand new, but put them in service for a while and you'll learn how to cuss.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

We use leeson wash downs. Not impressive. Peckerhead placement is crutial. Facing down is the only way we don't get water inside. electrical tape on a horizontal is almost a must. The seals suck. (Personal opinion based on 20 motor changes plant wide and only been at the place 4 months)


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Peewee0413 said:


> We use leeson wash downs. Not impressive. Peckerhead placement is crutial. Facing down is the only way we don't get water inside. electrical tape on a horizontal is almost a must. The seals suck. (Personal opinion based on 20 motor changes plant wide and only been at the place 4 months)


Wash down motors are not designed to keep water out.
They are designed to allow water to run out of the motor. (of course preventing water intrusion is part of the reasoning behind a wash down product).
Water entering is not the whole problem.
Water remaining inside and accumulating is the problem.
If you are having failures, be sure to check the motor "weep holes" to see if they are clear. The drains. You must move the plugs depending on the motor position.
Water must run out of the motor.


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