# 6 Lead Motor



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I found this on another site. I figured someone here would know. Looks to be IEC standard, not Nema


We have a 125 HP, 3 phase, 480VAC motor that has six leads coming out of the motor. Two leads are labeled "U2", two are labeled "V2", and two are labeled "W2". So I have 3 pairs of leads with the same label on them. Checking resistance between any two of the leads labeled the same indicates no continuity. However, you can read continuity between a U,V,W set. This indicates to me that there are two independent sets of motor windings. The debate between my co-workers is how to connect this motor. The thoughts are to connect both wires labeled the same to a leg of 3 phase. The other is to only connect one set of windings to the 3 phase. By the way, the motor cover shows a connection diagram for 9 wires. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

paging Motorwinder


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> paging Motorwinder


 
Or The Frenchman

Click here


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I've never seen this, but if I did, I would tie the matched pairs together, one set to each phase.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

It's been a while since I've had to deal with that and I'm probably way off but I believe you do have two windings. Start and run. Usually these motors have parallel feeds. The draw for start up is much greater than run. There should actually be sensitive technology telling relays in which phase of the process the motor is in. I've run into this on fire pumps before. All technology was contained in the pump controller. Ok y'all go ahead and hammer me now


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I think you have a Single Voltage--External Delta Connection.

http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/motor_connection_diagrams.htm


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

The stiff may be correct


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Gaterhater said:


> It's been a while since I've had to deal with that and I'm probably way off but I believe you do have two windings. Start and run. Usually these motors have parallel feeds. The draw for start up is much greater than run. There should actually be sensitive technology telling relays in which phase of the process the motor is in. I've run into this on fire pumps before. All technology was contained in the pump controller. Ok y'all go ahead and hammer me now


You're describing a wye/delta starter, and the windings are not labeled the same. Think about it, how would you know which leads to attach to the delta contactor and which to the wye?


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're describing a wye/delta starter, and the windings are not labeled the same. Think about it, how would you know which leads to attach to the delta contactor and which to the wye?


Possibly. But I'm sure I've run across similar situation. Three leads and two sets. Had to pull out 500 and parallel smaller cable for start and run. Delta/ wye I've ever come across has specific diagram for both configurations, no leads labeled the same


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

With all the advances in VFDs, do they even use Wye start Delta run motor controllers anymore?


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

Finally a motor question. :thumbup:

Hook the wires marked the same to each other. U2 to U2, V2 to V2, Ect.. for each phase.

It's a star connected motor with the leads paralleled, so you can use smaller lead wire.

Next..


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

I really am a motor winder BTW. This is the one I did today..


Back to the regular scheduled program..


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Motorwinder said:


> I really am a motor winder BTW. This is the one I did today..
> 
> Back to the regular scheduled program..


Threadstoppa


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

nolabama said:


> Threadstoppa


Sorry couldn't resist. Like you guys that are proud of your trades, I take pride in my work.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I knew you would be the one to figure it out.



And it's not dual voltage, or Delta Start Wye run ?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Motorwinder said:


> Finally a motor question. :thumbup:
> 
> Hook the wires marked the same to each other. U2 to U2, V2 to V2, Ect.. for each phase.
> 
> ...


Exactly.

This motor is suitable for part-winding start, but not wye-delta.

Last week, I connected a couple of 450HP motors that had 4 sets of T1, T2 and T3s. 

Think of it as 4 motors in one frame. 

Big generators are like this as well.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> With all the advances in VFDs, do they even use Wye start Delta run motor controllers anymore?


There are still a lot of plants using both air and refrigeration compressors that use wye-start delta-run controls.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Gaterhater said:


> The stiff may be correct


Who is a stiff..?:laughing::laughing:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> With all the advances in VFDs, do they even use Wye start Delta run motor controllers anymore?


One reason is because old-timers can repair a wye-delta starter, but not anything electronic.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

micromind said:


> One reason is because old-timers can repair a wye-delta starter, but not anything electronic.


No..... In a lot of these plants, maintenance still goes by "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
:laughing:

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

micromind said:


> One reason is because old-timers can repair a wye-delta starter, but not anything electronic.


Who do you define as oldtimers????......

Frank


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

dronai said:


> I found this on another site. I figured someone here would know. Looks to be IEC standard, not Nema
> 
> 
> We have a 125 HP, 3 phase, 480VAC motor that has six leads coming out of the motor. Two leads are labeled "U2", two are labeled "V2", and two are labeled "W2". So I have 3 pairs of leads with the same label on them. Checking resistance between any two of the leads labeled the same indicates no continuity. However, you can read continuity between a U,V,W set. This indicates to me that there are two independent sets of motor windings. The debate between my co-workers is how to connect this motor. The thoughts are to connect both wires labeled the same to a leg of 3 phase. The other is to only connect one set of windings to the 3 phase. By the way, the motor cover shows a connection diagram for 9 wires. Any help is greatly appreciated.


 
That is double "delta" connection that is little odd for straight 480 volt hook up.( for the IEC type motours unless they are large motor size then it will be common )

There are some case you will see same size tails that can be part winding start.

Whatever the reason if you have VFD or start on DOL { direct on line } on smaller motours always wired them up in delta otherwise you will burn up the windings { not very often you will see double Wye connected for running mode.} 

The otherwise the Motourwinder did have the correct sequince of connections ditto with dronai's link for the connection.

Merci,
Marc


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Who is a stiff..?:laughing::laughing:


Only the self proclaimed one


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

frenchelectrican said:


> That is double "delta" connection that is little odd for straight 480 volt hook up.( for the IEC type motours unless they are large motor size then it will be common )
> 
> There are some case you will see same size tails that can be part winding start.
> 
> ...


Not a delta. If you have continuity U, V and W, that indicates internal wyes. If it was delta or wye/delta, You'd have continuity between 3 pairs. Probably wouldn't be able to run part-winding either. It's possible, but why would a winder connect a part-winding connection and not mark it accordingly. Someone rewound it and brought out 6 leads is all.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Motorwinder said:


> I really am a motor winder BTW. This is the one I did today..
> 
> 
> Back to the regular scheduled program..


Looks like the kind of motors we used to build. Worked at the Louis Allis Co. in Milwaukee 33 years. I see you have VPI equipment. Do you also do form-coil jobs as well. Very interesing business. It keeps you on your toes.


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

retiredsparktech said:


> Looks like the kind of motors we used to build. Worked at the Louis Allis Co. in Milwaukee 33 years. I see you have VPI equipment. Do you also do form-coil jobs as well. Very interesing business. It keeps you on your toes.


Louis Allis were good motors. 

We do motors up to about 5000hp depending on weight. 

This was an 1100 HP. We've done several of these for a local water district.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

I see you have the most important piece of equipment pictured. The coffee pot. Great job on the form coil.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Here is the NEMA and IEC wiring drawings from the EASA handbook.

http://www.goevans.com/EHB_pgs0803.pdf


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## SteveO. (Oct 17, 2011)

How many speeds/FLA's on the nameplate?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Motorwinder said:


> Not a delta. If you have continuity U, V and W, that indicates internal wyes. If it was delta or wye/delta, You'd have continuity between 3 pairs. Probably wouldn't be able to run part-winding either. It's possible, but why would a winder connect a part-winding connection and not mark it accordingly. Someone rewound it and brought out 6 leads is all.


That what I am thinking as well if someone did rewound it and did not mark it properly it can leave a nasty suprise if not heeded.

Merci,
Marc


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