# dumb mistake



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

That doesn't look that bad. I've cut live 120 volt stuff that blew a bigger hole than that. 

Those blow up pliers look relatively new so I see they proved Klein's Law to be true again.


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

I cut thru a piece of live nm with my Klein cable cutters along time ago they have a nice 12.2 notch in them


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

You're lucky on that one. Do you have a Fluke tic tester? Every time I smoke a tool it reminds me to check, check and check again.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

My blue collar family always called those "*****".


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> You're lucky on that one. Do you have a Fluke tic tester? Every time I smoke a tool it reminds me to check, check and check again.



I was in a rush, but this is a great reminder that no matter how fast someone wants a job done slow down, think about what you are doing and be safe.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That doesn't look that bad. I've cut live 120 volt stuff that blew a bigger hole than that.


I agree.

The few times I cut into 277 circuits looked a whole lot worse than that.

But glad the OP is OK, mark or not 277 sucks to get hit with.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> I was in a rush, but this is a great reminder that no matter how fast someone wants a job done slow down, think about what you are doing and be safe.


Get a quality(Fluke) tic tester and keep it in your front pocket. Tic everything you touch. Rub it on your hair or arm or whatever to make sure it's working.

Not saying this replaces safe work practices but the truth is that most companies won't take the time to lock out, tag out. Testing with a meter is better but a lot of times you don't have that luxury and a good tic tester should be as reliable as a meter. Both read voltage present if used properly.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> Get a quality(Fluke) tic tester and keep it in your front pocket. Tic everything you touch. Rub it on your hair or arm or whatever to make sure it's working.
> 
> Not saying this replaces safe work practices but the truth is that most companies won't take the time to lock out, tag out. Testing with a meter is better but a lot of times you don't have that luxury and a good tic tester should be as reliable as a meter. Both read voltage present if used properly.


Milwaukee makes a great tester with a led light on the end. So it comes in handy when you need to push some dark out the way.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Theriot said:


> Milwaukee makes a great tester with a led light on the end. So it comes in handy when you need to push some dark out the way.


My opinion is that I won't trust a tic tester from anyone but a testing tool manufacturer. IE: Fluke or?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

You lost a side cutter but gained a red neck wire stripper.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> My opinion is that I won't trust a tic tester from anyone but a testing tool manufacturer. IE: Fluke or?


I was working in a lift with another guy, he stuck his fluke tic in the box (277v)..nothing.. As he was about to start working on it, I said hold on and stuck my Milwaukee in and it went off. 

The point is you shouldn't put so much trust in them. What I do is anything 20amps and under I will test with my tic and before I cut or handle it, I grab the hot with my linemans and slap it against the ground to be sure it's dead. Anything over 20amps I double check with a meter.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

freeagnt54 said:


> I was working in a lift with another guy, he stuck his fluke tic in the box (277v)..nothing.. As he was about to start working on it, I said hold on and stuck my Milwaukee in and it went off.
> 
> The point is you shouldn't put so much trust in them. What I do is anything 20amps and under I will test with my tic and before I cut or handle it, I grab the hot with my linemans and slap it against the ground to be sure it's dead. Anything over 20amps I double check with a meter.


Horrible advice.
Did you learn that in apprentice school?


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

As far as tic tracers go, I've tried the Klein, Greenlee, and am currently using the Milwaukee. The light on it is nice. 

Under no circumstances should that be your only testing method. I have a solenoid tester on hand to double check. 

Its been my experience that testing equipment that uses batteries can misbehave when the juice gets low.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> Horrible advice.
> Did you learn that in apprentice school?


No I did not. Mind you that's after LOTO procedures and verifying circuits according to the plans. I just don't trust that every circuit in the building is wired according to plans and I don't trust those tic tracers either.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Thats what shock absorbers or for. Here's a helpful hint. Keep a two by four handy.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Those aren't side cutters, those are *****.
Linemans are side cutters.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Why would you not trust a quality tic tester vs trusting a digital meter? Which one has more moving parts? Which one has leads that can be damaged? Which one requires you to dig into the wire or wirenut if there isn't exposed conductor? Just saying that a quality test tool is a quality test tool. Tic won't work if you don't put it next to the conductor properly. Won't work if you don't turn it on.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Just because a meter cost more or does more doesn't make it more accurate or reliable than a tic tracer. 

The only way to know is a live-dead-live test, and that's much easier with a tic tracer than a meter.

-John


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

I have an amp probe meter with a tic tester built in it. A little hard though to put in the front pocket.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Big John said:


> Just because a meter cost more or does more doesn't make it more accurate or reliable than a tic tracer.
> 
> The only way to know is a live-dead-live test, and that's much easier with a tic tracer than a meter.
> 
> -John


Yep, and lets say you tested the wrong circuit with your meter. IE: A motor with the controler locked out, tested no power at the controler. But you are on the wrong motor. Whipping your tic tester out and double checking will save your hide.


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Big John said:


> Just because a meter cost more or does more doesn't make it more accurate or reliable than a tic tracer.
> 
> The only way to know is a live-dead-live test, and that's much easier with a tic tracer than a meter.
> 
> -John


Seriously? You think a tic tracer is more accurate than a digital meter. I disagree I like the meter better. Especially on high voltage.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

617danny said:


> Seriously? You think a tic tracer is more accurate than a digital meter. I disagree I like the meter better. Especially on high voltage.


 It has nothing to do with what I think:

The only way to actually know any tester is working properly is check it on a known voltage, test the circuit, then re-check the tester.

Since this is often a pain to do this with a digital meter, guys rarely do it. It's much easier to do with a tic tracer: You just rub it through you hair.

I use my tic tracer routinely on 600V with this method. 

A tester is only as safe as the guy holding it.

-John


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Big John said:


> It has nothing to do with what I think:
> 
> The only way to actually know any tester is working properly is check it on a known voltage, test the circuit, then re-check the tester.
> 
> ...


Ok I get it. That makes sense but I have been fooled a few times by a tic tracer. Never by the meter.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Try sticking a tic in a light socket sometime it works sometimes it doesn't. Not sure why but learned the hard way


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Yeah non contact tester is a handy thing to start things with but I would always do a live, dead, live test with a digital meter before I start working on stuff


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

My Flukes have been 100% when used PROPERLY.


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Yeah that's what I have a fluke, they are really nice.


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Would you crawl inside switchgear after testing it with your tic tracer and nothing else?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

617danny said:


> Would you crawl inside switchgear after testing it with your tic tracer and nothing else?


I'd test with my meter, my tic and verify both were working..


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok but if you could only pick meter or tic tracer and you have to get inside the 2000 amp switchgear. Which would you use?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

617danny said:


> Ok but if you could only pick meter or tic tracer and you have to get inside the 2000 amp switchgear. Which would you use?


 Either one is as safe as the other when used properly, that's the point I'm trying to make.

When working with high voltage the industry standard is non-contact testers. We regularly use them before intentionally grounding out high voltage equipment. The technology is no different than what's in your Fluke or Milwaukee.

Why is it acceptable at 19,000 volts but not at 480?

-John


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## 617danny (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok I'm convinced. Next we shut down gear I'll just use my tic tracer. My tool partner has a commercial electric one he likes.


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## Tyson (Jan 17, 2011)

One thing to keep in mind with pocket tic tracers they do not work on dc circuits, i use afluke pocket tester for only checking after i have checked with an multimeter or soliniod type. Ussually to confirm circuit chnging of state. Ex. Testing an solinoid turning on then off.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> My opinion is that I won't trust a tic tester from anyone but a testing tool manufacturer. IE: Fluke or?


 
Amprobe 300 HV.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Amprobe 300 HV.


The battery cover falls off on the two I bought for my guys


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## swissmiss177 (Feb 3, 2012)

Tic tester will give false positives all the time. Better to check with meter on the bigger stuff


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

I have the fluke also and must say its a great tool. I first went through greenlee and some other and they really suck. As someone else said, stick to a brand that makes nothing but test equipment. Mine hasn't let me down once and I've had it 3+ years now. Also, fluke makes one with light too.


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

3xdad said:


> My blue collar family always called those "*****".


Ya but to be PC you now have to call them alternative lifestyle cutters


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

swissmiss177 said:


> Tic tester will give false positives all the time. Better to check with meter on the bigger stuff


It's not a false positive though. The tic is detecting voltage it's just not what you think it is. Could be induced. If you think you're getting induced then check with a meter. 

On big stuff I'm leary of just checking with a tic. Multiple tools for that. Meter then tic.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

617danny said:


> Seriously? You think a tic tracer is more accurate than a digital meter. I disagree I like the meter better. Especially on high voltage.



I AM NOT putting a contact meter in to a high voltage cabinet, Tic Tracer on a hot stick.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Meter then tic.


 

I think you've got that backwards


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## Sparky208 (Feb 25, 2011)

zwodubber said:


> My Klein side cutters took a 277V bite today, was not expecting that
> 
> Finally gave me a reason to upgrade to the blues, just need to be more careful now.


I just did that with a brand new pair of ideal t strippers. My last pair lasted 2 or 3 years, and was wore out. Now this pair lasted days. I was in a hurry and thought it was off.


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