# Ingersol-Rand Air Compressor Smoke



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

it does sound like the caps, (they can go bad from just sitting)
and if you didnt listen close you would not have heard the cap start mechanism disengage
if that didnt happen it will smoke the start caps
if it did happen it might have been the run cap
reach through the cage on the back of the motor and play with the centrifugal switch to make sure it is not stuck
open up the cap covers and see if there is any smell there, if so bad caps .. why? who knows until you investigate completely
if the caps are the same high value (more than 50 mf each) then they are both *start* caps and must be released from the circuit immediately after full speed of the motor
if one looks different and has a much lower value (less than 20mf and may also have a metal can) then that is a *run* cap and always stays in the circuit
i suggest buying a cheap cap meter, (i found one on Amazon for less than 30 bucks) (the meter and the caps will have a tolerance value of maybe 10%)
i have also bought caps on line (i have lost the website of my preferred dealer) packard brand is good and low priced, also american or some such
the replacement start caps can be an approximate mf value (within 50 or so mf) and have the proper voltage value or higher
the replacement run caps must be an exact mf value, and have the proper voltage value or higher (higher is usually recommended for a greater insulation value that will last longer)

the problem could be the age of the caps ,, or the start switch
you must mechanically verify the start switch before you eventually burn up your motor


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> it does sound like the caps, (they can go bad from just sitting)
> and if you didnt listen close you would not have heard the cap start mechanism disengage
> if that didnt happen it will smoke the start caps
> if it did happen it might have been the run cap
> ...


***

SPECTACULAR AND DETAILED REPLY!

Thank you....I have seen motors burn up (not mine!) and have seen caps, and the smell is that of the caps...

I will (soonest) remove the end-cap of the motor and look around...Caps I surmise, can be gotten from e-bay so, I am not sweating that...

I wrote an e-mail to "IR" and they sent me little on this unit as it is a rather old unit...I was unable to find any additional paperwork on it....I shudder on the availability of that "clutch" spoken about....

There will be a smell/smoke in the entire motor since the caps, assuming they "smoked", had no place to go but, out of the motor due to the cap-case.

My other beast compressor takes forever to build pressure and that will be my next project...I believe that I have to replace the "reed valves" in the compressor...gonna hate that too.*


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

No doubt it's the run capacitor. They do indeed 'dry out' over time if they're not energized every couple of years. 

The values of motor capacitors varies widely among manufacturers, there's no set µf per HP or anything like that. 

The µf value of the replacement needs to be + or _ about 10% of the original. The voltage needs to be at least the value of the original but it can be higher.......just not lower.


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

generating pain said:


> ***
> 
> SPECTACULAR AND DETAILED REPLY!
> 
> ...


IR T-30 compressors are reed eating machines.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> No doubt it's the run capacitor. They do indeed 'dry out' over time if they're not energized every couple of years.
> 
> The values of motor capacitors varies widely among manufacturers, there's no set µf per HP or anything like that.
> 
> The µf value of the replacement needs to be + or _ about 10% of the original. The voltage needs to be at least the value of the original but it can be higher.......just not lower.


****
Thanks for the reply!

I will attempt to remove the "cap-covers" tomorrow and attempt to remove the motor end cap and see what goes on...Wanna bet the end cap fights back?...grin.*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> IR T-30 compressors are reed eating machines.


**
Thanks for the reply!

I watched a video via u-tube and it looks easy and, I believe the kit I saw was about $100....Never did anything like this before.*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

generating pain said:


> **
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I watched a video via u-tube and it looks easy and, I believe the kit I saw was about $100....Never did anything like this before.*


They’re easy to fix, but the reed going through the second stage cylinder has scored the cylinder wall so it will use some oil. Air compressors are the bane of my existence in ready mix plant work. I’ve rebuilt my share of IR T30 compressors.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> They’re easy to fix, but the reed going through the second stage cylinder has scored the cylinder wall so it will use some oil. Air compressors are the bane of my existence in ready mix plant work. I’ve rebuilt my share of IR T30 compressors.


***

Thanks for the reply...
It has been a few years since I watched the video and I don't remember anything about that....

You mean to tell me that it is for sure I have a scratched 'wall"?.....Huh?.....I don't recall this using any oil at all.

I had noticed that the o-ring or seal where oil is filled, was leaking for a bit and now have oil on the garage floor.....Looks like it's time to find my bag of kitty litter!...

I replaced the o-ring AND added one that sits "on the outside" and around the screw plug....Looks like that will solve the oil leaking....I changed the oil a few years ago and have used the t30 sparingly....*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

generating pain said:


> ***
> 
> Thanks for the reply...
> It has been a few years since I watched the video and I don't remember anything about that....
> ...


Well there are no guarantees in life and you may have gotten fortunate so it may have passed through doing no harm. A scratched cyl wall isn't the end of the world though, in a home garage it'll run like that for years. I had them run like that in ready mix plants where they get hot and stay hot, but keep buzzing along.


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

micromind said:


> No doubt it's the run capacitor. They do indeed 'dry out' over time if they're not energized every couple of years.
> 
> The values of motor capacitors varies widely among manufacturers, there's no set µf per HP or anything like that.
> 
> The µf value of the replacement needs to be + or _ about 10% of the original. The voltage needs to be at least the value of the original but it can be higher.......just not lower.


@micromind I read that the reason mf values per hp vary so greatly between mfg's is because the mfg's wind the motors slightly differently sometimes to save money, sometimes to improve performance
any thoughts/advice on that?


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Almost Retired said:


> @micromind I read that the reason mf values per hp vary so greatly between mfg's is because the mfg's wind the motors slightly differently sometimes to save money, sometimes to improve performance
> any thoughts/advice on that?


Yes, every manufacturer designs their motors differently, usually based on what they perceive as the need of the moment but also what the design engineer thinks will make him look good. 

If it's a NEMA design, there are standards that must be adhered to, after that, it's open season..........lol.

In years past, starting torque, long like and overload capacity were major players, these days efficiency has taken the front seat and thus, the basic design has changed.

The value of the start capacitor will vary with different designs so there can't be a standard that applied to all motors. 

While it's true that capacitors don't fail very often, it'd be good if their values were printed on the nameplate.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*UPDATE:

Please find a few picts taken this morning of the end cap of the motor removed....*

*1)...There are two different caps and cap ratings...
A small silver cap on the left - rated at 15uf at 370vac (obviously a run cap) and,
a larger black plastic cased cap rated at 145uf - 175uf at 220vac (obviously a start cap)....*































































* Both show no visible signs of burn out (i. leaking oil, buldging/cracked case, etc) but, I know that means little since internally they may be "spent".*

*2)...There is a* *spring loaded "clutch"* *that is visible in a few of the picts...There are attached springs at top and bottom...I attempted to move the arms they are attached to and they are not moving...To be honest, I did not use much of any effort in fear that I would break something.

You wil also see, for lack of a better term, a brown "disc" that possibly should ride/slide on the steel shaft but, is stead-fast not moving.....I am not sure if it is supposed to move and in my opinion shoud slide on the shaft to allow the "clutch" to operate....

Note - the guy I obtained the compressor from used to do a lot of ceramics in his garage and so, you will see a white dusting as indicated in the picts

**Should I apply some P.B.Blaster (penetrating lube) to that disc/shaft where it contactts the shaft of the arature(?) and also to that spring assemply?*

****ANOTHER EDIT AND UPDATE-
Moments ago, I looked at that brown disc and determined that it should slide on the shaft...I took my thumbs and pushed on each side of the "brown disc" and it seemed to slide back with little effort.....I placed a few drops of WD-40 on the shaft but, NOT on the mechanism...*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

you should be able to move the counter-weight in the direction it needs to move when up to speed, it may be very stiff
this should open a contact with two wires attached to it 
if the contacts are stuck you may be able to pry at or in the contacts to open them

the motor windings on the left side look a little dark, it thats not a shadow or lack of white dust, you need to ohm those windings
at the very least put your nose close and smell them


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> you should be able to move the counter-weight in the direction it needs to move when up to speed, it may be very stiff
> this should open a contact with two wires attached to it
> if the contacts are stuck you may be able to pry at or in the contacts to open them
> 
> ...


That motor needs a Megger test before spending any more money on it.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> That motor needs a Megger test before spending any more money on it.


****

_you should be able to move the counter-weight in the direction it needs to move when up to speed,_
*YES, I WAS ABLE TOO AND EVEN APPLIED SOME WD-40*

_ it may be very stiff_
*I WASN'T ...*

_this should open a contact with two wires attached to it_
*WILL LOOK FOR IT!*

_if the contacts are stuck you may be able to pry at or in the contacts to open them_
*SLIDING THE "BROWN DISC" WORKING...WILL LOOK FOR CONTACTS A BIT LATER...JUST GOT BACK FROM A PARTS STORE I FREQUENT AND FOUND THEY CLOSED FOR GOOD...WILL ORDER PARTS ON LINE.*
_
the motor windings on the left side look a little dark, it thats not a shadow or lack of white dust, _
*NOT SURE BUT THERE IS SOME DUST FOR SURE, EVEN ON THE BLACK CAP WHICH, MAY HAVE come OUT THE TOP...*

_you need to ohm those windingsat the very least put your nose close and smell them _
*there is a slight smell of something that had burned but, think it was the cap since thise throw a lot of smoke when trashed. it threw out a bit of smoke after running for 3-4 seconds...some shadow and some dust i suspect.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> ****
> 
> _you should be able to move the counter-weight in the direction it needs to move when up to speed,_
> *YES, I WAS ABLE TOO AND EVEN APPLIED SOME WD-40*
> ...


i wouldnt buy any parts for it until it ohms good at the very least, preferably 500V megger


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> i wouldnt buy any parts for it until it ohms good at the very least, preferably 500V megger


*****
Well, that killed that as I don't own one nor have access to one....*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *****
> Well, that killed that as I don't own one nor have access to one....*


no ohmeter/volt meter ??
if not go to lowes and buy a cheap one
prolly less than 150.00

if you are gonna troubleshoot your own stuff , then you Really need a basic meter


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> no ohmeter/volt meter ??
> if not go to lowes and buy a cheap one
> prolly less than 150.00
> 
> if you are gonna troubleshoot your own stuff , then you Really need a basic meter


*****
no ohmeter/volt meter ??
*ohm meter and volt meter YES.**..however, don't know proceedures as to how to proceed.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *****
> no ohmeter/volt meter ??
> *ohm meter and volt meter YES.**..however, don't know proceedures as to how to proceed.*


open the peckerhead, write down how it is hooked up, remove the wire nuts, remove the incoming power wires (except ground), 
put the meter on highest ohms,
put the point of one lead on the motor frame with no paint, spin it in place to get a good connection
_dont put both hands on the connections, that will change the reading_
you can use the other hand to hold the motor lead and meter lead together
test each lead to ground, you should get something in the meg ohms range
if less than that its probably bad
at this point you need to find somebody that knows how to check the motor and let them check continuity motor lead to motor lead, and learn from them


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> open the peckerhead, write down how it is hooked up, remove the wire nuts, remove the incoming power wires (except ground),
> put the meter on highest ohms,
> put the point of one lead on the motor frame with no paint, spin it in place to get a good connection
> _dont put both hands on the connections, that will change the reading_
> ...


**

Thanks again for teh reply....Getting burned out with this so, will tackle this tomorrow....In the mean time, will look for caps...THANKS AGAIN!*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> **
> 
> Thanks again for teh reply....Getting burned out with this so, will tackle this tomorrow....In the mean time, will look for caps...THANKS AGAIN!*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

if you find a local place that sells caps (air cond supply) sometimes they will check them for you
you are talking about around 20 bucks for both


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

generating pain said:


> View attachment 163573
> 
> 
> * Both show no visible signs of burn out (i. leaking oil, buldging/cracked case, etc) but, I know that means little since internally they may be "spent".*
> ...


First what you are calling the spring loaded clutch is called the centrifugal start switch for the motor.
The clutch you talked about from IR may be an unloader. @460 Delta does it have one since you have rebuilt them.
Next question is Did the motor turn at all or was it stalled/loaded down due to load?
If it can't get to speed the switch won't open and it will stay in start mode and never switch to run and burn out.


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> First what you are calling the spring loaded clutch is called the centrifugal start switch for the motor.
> The clutch you talked about from IR may be an unloader. @460 Delta does it have one since you have rebuilt them.
> Next question is Did the motor turn at all or was it stalled/loaded down due to load?
> If it can't get to speed the switch won't open and it will stay in start mode and never switch to run and burn out.


The T30 was a bit of a catch all term IR used for it’s V twin and W triple compressor units. Most but not all have centrifugal unloaders on the crankshaft and crankcase back covers. The unloaders generally speaking work well as the compressor is up to maybe half speed when the weights extend and the pump starts loading.
I have a love-hate relationship with IR compressors, as they are hot running, vibrating machines. The gray painted ones that were cast and machined in the US were passable to me. The black painted ones are cast and machined in India and the quality shows. The cooling fins are sloppy looking, and no hard corners really exist, just rounded-ish. The foundry molds are likely worn out and beyond. Likely hand rammed in green sand molds and hand poured by a teenage kid.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> First what you are calling the spring loaded clutch is called the centrifugal start switch for the motor.
> The clutch you talked about from IR may be an unloader. @460 Delta does it have one since you have rebuilt them.
> Next question is Did the motor turn at all or was it stalled/loaded down due to load?
> If it can't get to speed the switch won't open and it will stay in start mode and never switch to run and burn out.


*** ** ** ** * ** **  * * * ** **
** ** ** * ** ** ** ** ** * ** ** ***

_First what you are calling the spring loaded clutch is called the centrifugal start switch for the motor._
*I DID NOT KNOW THAT - THANK YOU*

_The clutch you talked about from IR may be an unloader. @460 Delta does it have one since you have rebuilt them.
*???????????????*

Next question is Did the motor turn at all or was it stalled/loaded down due to load?_
*AIR TANK WAS EMPTY SINCE THIS WAS NOT TURNED ON IT OVER 25 YEARS AND THERE WAS NO "AIR LOAD"...YES, MOTOR STARTED RIGHT UP, RAN FOR MAYBE 4 SECONDS BEFORE SMOKE* *AND TO WHICH I IMMEDIATLY SHUT IT DOWN....THE START CAP (BLACK) COULD HAVE SMOKED BUT, ALL I SAW WAS A GRAY DUST OR GRAY-ISH SMOKE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE CAP WHEN I DISASSEMBLED THE STEEL CASE WHEREAS, THE OTHER SILVER RUN CAP HAD NONE....IF THE BLACK START CAP "SMOKED" , NO PLACE FOR THE SMOKE TO GO BUT, THROUGH THE CASE WHERE THE WIRES ENTER THE MOTOR AREA....*

_If it can't get to speed the switch won't open and it will stay in start mode and never switch to run and burn out. _
*IT SEEMED TO ME TO RUN RATHER FAST BUT, I NEVER HEARD IT RUN BEFORE TO MAKE A FAIR ASSEMENT.....I DID APPLY SOME LIGHT WD-40 TO THE SHAFT AND IT GLIDES EASILY.....UH, WHAT "BURNS OUT"?*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> if you find a local place that sells caps (air cond supply) sometimes they will check them for you
> you are talking about around 20 bucks for both


**   **
**   **
*I JUST THINK I WILL PURCHASE OUT-RIGHT FROM THE NET...WENT TO MY FAVORITE SURPLUS PARTS HOUSE AND THEY FOLDED UP THE BUSINESS!...UGH!*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Currently,*

I found that my local parts place that I though closed up had simply moved...Went there this morning, nah-dah...So, it's ebay I go...Will replaceboth the start and run caps and see what happens....

As far as the darkened spot on the windings, appears as if at one time it got hot but, not sue if it was pre-existing or not....either way, I will replace the caps and see what happens only $20 out of pocket - if it works, it works.....If not, buy another motor I suppose.










Watched a few more vids today (utube) and went out to look or/at contacts for cetrifugal (still like spring clutch better!...grin) start....Found it, hard to tell if ok or not - cramped viewing area...Tomorrow will pull this darned thing out so that I have some space to work in.....



















I wish there was a way to start this up with end bell removed but, appears not as the start contacts are mounted to same.


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

There is no winding lacing left on your burn spot, so you can pretty much rest assured that expanded when it let the smoke out.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> There is no winding lacing left on your burn spot, so you can pretty much rest assured that expanded when it let the smoke out.


*** ***

Like I said, I do not know if this was PRE-EXISTING or, was a result of me turning on the compressor after 25+ years of sitting.......could have been the start cap as the smell was familiar to me over the years...May have to start looking for a replacement motor, just have to get numbers off of present one...I won't do that until I put caps in it and whatever happens, happens...*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

A SIDE- BAR question if I may -

I looked at my *T-30 IR compressor *and removed the "twist-in" grate so-to-speak.......On this compressor, the air filter housing is at 90* pointing down....

Inside, there are* 3-5 THICK and DENSE brown air filter discs.*....Is that supposed to be like that?...Seems the compressor *would be drawing hard *to get any air through all that.....Any theories as to why this is and, if it is supposed to be that way?



















*Lastly,*
I have a pressure gauge *on the top *of the compressor at the pressure adjustment switch....I also have one at the *outport port of the air tank *after a regulator (I was given the directions for the regulator which has a large clear plastic "bulb" that water can collect into and I have to look up which direction to turn a handle to adjust pressure) .....They both say about 90lbs.....is that normal (both reading the same)?


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

@460 Delta


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> @460 Delta


**   ** 
uh, it says you replied but, I see no text.*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

generating pain said:


> A SIDE- BAR question if I may -
> 
> I looked at my *T-30 IR compressor *and removed the "twist-in" grate so-to-speak.......On this compressor, the air filter housing is at 90* pointing down....
> 
> ...


If the discs are clean, it should be all right. I believe they are meant to be washable in a solvent. If the regulator is set high, the tank and regulator pressure will be the same until the regulator setting is exceeded by the tank pressure.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> If the discs are clean, it should be all right. I believe they are meant to be washable in a solvent. If the regulator is set high, the tank and regulator pressure will be the same until the regulator setting is exceeded by the tank pressure.


*####################################

Thanks for the reply!

Hard to believe!.....The total of these discs are maybe 2'' thick and like I said VERY DENSE......There's gotta be a better way but, oh well...I need to increase the output pressure on this as it is running at approx 80-85lbs and takes forever to get there...Part of this could be tired valves though.*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Here are the discs -
(kinda look like hamburgers...ha*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Old fashioned felt filters. Take the measurements of the housing to a NAPA or some other old line parts store and get a pleated paper filter.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> Old fashioned felt filters. Take the measurements of the housing to a NAPA or some other old line parts store and get a pleated paper filter.


*##########################

Ya know, I was thinking along those lines...

I was going to take some general I.D. measurments on the filter housing and maybe, get a piece of pvc pipe and make a filter out of it (using filter material of sorts) then, insert it into the housing and go from there........I'll figure out something but, these "disc" are really incredibly dense...*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Capacitors - 

Is it me and my perception or, is the PHYSICAL size of start and run caps getting quite a bit smaller?......Started looking around today and both caps I will be replacing are significantly smaller then the ones removed...

Ratings are the same and useable in that respect and, they will fit into/under the steel covers they are contained in on top of the motor but, I will have to secure caps (assuming they will fix my compressor issue) possibly by wrapping in some air conditioning pipe insulation so that the don't move around in the steel covers and short.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *Capacitors -
> 
> Is it me and my perception or, is the PHYSICAL size of start and run caps getting quite a bit smaller?......Started looking around today and both caps I will be replacing are significantly smaller then the ones removed...
> 
> Ratings are the same and useable in that respect and, they will fit into/under the steel covers they are contained in on top of the motor but, I will have to secure caps (assuming they will fix my compressor issue) possibly by wrapping in some air conditioning pipe insulation so that the don't move around in the steel covers and short.*


where were they built/mfg ?
smaller is probably not better
smaller usually means less reliable in this instance


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> where were they built/mfg ?
> smaller is probably not better
> smaller usually means less reliable in this instance


*##########################

*THANKS FOR THE REPLY(IES)

In USA some place (I have info scribbled down on the back of an envelope here someplace)........May still risk it - Compressor motor may fail anyway....

I did notice the other day that the start cap had a lot of "dust" off of the top at one side of the cap...Maybe blown but, I don't really care at this point as I will put in new caps and "let 'er' rip".

I started looking at compressor 5HP motors - will have to get data from plates and go from there...*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

My advice is when looking for a compressor new or used, find one that uses an 1800 RPM motor, not one that uses a 3600 RPM (synchronous) speed.

1800 RPM units start easier and last much longer lives than their high speed counterparts to get the same job done. Twice as many rotations of the motor and pump leads to about half the life span.

You won’t find too many quality units configured for 3600 RPM unless they are engine driven. I would bet that if you check your primary Ingersoll “Beast” that has served you for years, you will see that it is an 1800 RPM unit.

Same goes for the motor, the high speed units motors usually are built much cheaper and oftentimes have a “SPL” (special) designation marked on the tag. This means that the motor is built for compressor (intermittent) duty and has less of a continious duty rating than a standard NEMA rated motor of the same HP.

The last 1 phase 1800 RPM motor I replaced on a 5HP compressor for a friend, I found that a WEG brand motor was the most economical fully rated cast iron frame. The construction was decent and it spun up the old IR unit with no hesitation.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> My advice is when looking for a compressor new or used, find one that uses an 1800 RPM motor, not one that uses a 3600 RPM (synchronous) speed.
> 
> 1800 RPM units start easier and last much longer lives than their high speed counterparts to get the same job done. Twice as many rotations of the motor and pump leads to about half the life span.
> 
> ...


*##########################

 *THANKS FOR THE REPLY(IES)* 

I still have to hit the garage, move a lot of "crapola" around to rotate the compressor to get the info off of the data plates....I will surely get back to the forum on this....


----------



## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

generating pain said:


> 1...I aquired an* Ingersol-Rand *(henceforth refered to as "IR") air compressor *model # 5E6VA *air compressor (upright style) about 25+ years ago from a friend.... It was a working compressor when I obtained it and, it has been stored and un-used in my garage since that day.


Am I understanding this correctly, you just pulled this compressor out and hooked power to it to see if it works? No PM in 25 years and let's go?


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

oldsparky52 said:


> Am I understanding this correctly, you just pulled this compressor out and hooked power to it to see if it works? No PM in 25 years and let's go?


*########################

That's what I wrote and, that's what it says......UNFORTUNATLY.....

It sat in corner of my garage as a back-up.....It worked (I am positive)
when I purchased it from my friend and, I never hooked it up...*


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

CMP said:


> My advice is when looking for a compressor new or used, find one that uses an 1800 RPM motor, not one that uses a 3600 RPM (synchronous) speed.
> 
> 1800 RPM units start easier and last much longer lives than their high speed counterparts to get the same job done. Twice as many rotations of the motor and pump leads to about half the life span.
> 
> ...


This is completely true. A 3600 RPM motor is less $$$ than an 1800 RPM one so that alone says that the compressor with the 3600 motor is built mainly for low cost.......AKA cheap. 

If they skimped on the motor, they'll skimp on everything else too.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*UPDATE - 

I **installed a run and a start ca**p as previously mentioned and, although it did not smoke, would only give a partial rotation while humming like a b-tch.

I had applied wd-40 to front bearing which is mounted on the front motor shaft and "inserts" into the end bell front motor housing and in turn, the front motor housing mounts to the motor case with 4 bolts.

I took the rear belt housing part-way off and grabbed the motor pulley and found that it appeared to be rubbing/dragging (for lack of a better phrase) while I was turning it....I did note that the output shaft of the motor that turns the large rear motor pulley was signific**antly **rusted.

I also noticed that there was significant "in-out" play of the moror shaft....I appled PB-Blaster to the output shaft (connects to the large pulley, and worked it in and out for a bit, then, applied liberal amounts of wd-40....I put the motor bell front cover back on and the motor started right up!....No smoke, no obvious issues.

I turned motor on and off a few times (with tank open so that no pressure would build) and at one time, the motor did what it did as in my 1st paragraph...

I took my hand (motor off of course!) and pushed or pulled (I don't remember now!) the output shaft in or out, turned the motor on, and let it run for 10 minutes without issue.....What I can now determine is that the motor shaft that inserts into the front end motor cover where ac power is supplied, needs to go either further in or, further out of that cover.....

I examined the "internal motor start switch" which I have also applied wd-40 to (motor shaft, moving parts of the switch EXCLUDING contacts),.....It appears that the "brown disc" opens the start contacts when motor gets up to speed......I THINK that the movement of the motor shaft is either in or out too far (would be easier if I could remember!!) and not allowing the contacts to "seat" in the position they need to....

Just for my curiosity, I reinstalled the ORIGINAL start and run capacitors and the moror started up fine....So, I need to get back out to the garage and see if I can make an "adjustment as to how har the motor shaft is inserting into the front motor cover...I think this is the key.








*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *UPDATE -
> 
> I **installed a run and a start ca**p as previously mentioned and, although it did not smoke, would only give a partial rotation while humming like a b-tch.
> 
> ...


sounds like a keeper is missing on the shaft to maintain alignment, could be front or rear
either that or a bearing is going
can you move the shaft sideways and feel even the tiniest movement?
if yes then bearings are on the way out


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> sounds like a keeper is missing on the shaft to maintain alignment, could be front or rear
> either that or a bearing is going
> can you move the shaft sideways and feel even the tiniest movement?
> if yes then bearings are on the way out


*###############################################
###############################################*

sounds like a keeper is missing on the shaft to maintain alignment
*THAT IS WHAT I WAS THINKING.....IT DOES APPEAR TO BE ALIGNED BUT, IT'S THAT "IN-OUT" ISSUE......TOO FAR IN OR OUT APPEARS TO BE AFFECTING THE "START SWITCH" WHERE THE "BROWN DISC THAT IS AFFIXED TO THE FRONT MOTOR SHAFT IS MAKING CONTACT WITH THE SWITCH.....I MAY FIRE (BAD PHRASE TO USE!) IT UP LATER AND WRITE DOWN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SHAFT MOVED IN AND OR OUT.*

, could be front or rear
either that or a bearing is going
*I DON'T GET THAT FEELING LIKE THE BEARING(S) HAVE ISSUES......I WILL "RE-SEAT" THE ROTATING SHAFT FURTHER IN AND RETRACT OUT OF THE FRONT BEARING "RACE" (WHERE BEARING SEATS IN FRONT MOTOR COVER) AND SEE WHAT IS WHAT.......i DID NOT LOSE ANY CLIPS OR RETAINERS THAT I AM AWARE OF....*


can you move the shaft sideways and feel even the tiniest movement?
*NO, ROCK STEADY.....*

if yes then bearings are on the way out 
*N/A.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *###############################################
> ###############################################*
> 
> sounds like a keeper is missing on the shaft to maintain alignment
> ...


just to clarify the centrifugal switch will be in the rear bell cover
the output shaft will be thru the front cover where the drive pulley is
any lost clips may be inside of the bearings , toward the rotor

you could remove the pulley, and front bell, and then pull the rotor and shaft out of the stator to look at that end of it

in your initial analysis you are correct, the end play in the shaft is preventing the centrifugal switch from operating correctly
this is what you must correct to achieve reliable operation

just an fyi ; if you check the motor name tag you should find where the bearing part no.s are listed
one will be drive end ( or some abbreviation of that) and the other will be opposite end ( or some abbreviation of that)


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

generating pain said:


> **   **
> uh, it says you replied but, I see no text.*


When you see the @ symbol followed by a members name that is a page to that person.
Also stop using bold and all caps that is yelling at someone.
It sound like you are missing the spring washer that holds the rotor centered.
It is the piece to the very left in this picture next to the bearing.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> just to clarify the centrifugal switch will be in the rear bell cover
> the output shaft will be thru the front cover where the drive pulley is
> any lost clips may be inside of the bearings , toward the rotor
> 
> ...


###################################################
###################################################


just to clarify the centrifugal switch will be in the rear bell cover

*OHHH?, PLEASE SEE ATTACHED PICT ....LOOKING AT IT IN THE PICT, I ORIENT IT'S LOCATION AS WHAT IS FACING ME IS FRONT- BUT, I SEE WHAT YA MEAN AND YOU ARE CORRECT!!*
.











the output shaft will be thru the front cover where the drive pulley is
*YUP.....I SEE THAT *

any lost clips may be inside of the bearings , toward the rotor
*NOT VISIBLE FROM SIMPLE VIEWING*

you could remove the pulley, and front bell, and then pull the rotor and shaft out of the stator to look at that end of it
*I AM GOING TO LOOK AROUND ON THE FLOOR AND WORK AREA AND SEE IF SOMETHING DROPPED OUT OR WHATEVER.*

in your initial analysis you are correct, the end play in the shaft is preventing the centrifugal switch from operating correctly
this is what you must correct to achieve reliable operation
*YEAH, I THOUGHT SO.....I REQUESTED THE MANUAL FROM "IR" AND THEY SENT ME VIA PDF WHAT LITTLE THEY HAD...WILL LOOK IF CLIP OR SIMILAR IS PRESENT.*

just an fyi ; if you check the motor name tag you should find where the bearing part no.s are listed
one will be drive end ( or some abbreviation of that) and the other will be opposite end ( or some abbreviation of that)
*AGREED*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> When you see the @ symbol followed by a members name that is a page to that person.
> Also stop using bold and all caps that is yelling at someone.
> It sound like you are missing the spring washer that holds the rotor centered.
> It is the piece to the very left in this picture next to the bearing.
> View attachment 163997


*######################################
######################################

I just saw this!...sorry I missed it!...I never bought into the idea that bold or caps is yelling....I use it as emphasis and to secregate portions of the conversation.

As far as being centered, I think it is the cover which has a place cut out for the rotor that aligns the shaft...I do not have a pict of it but, when I "re-try" the motor, if it screws up, will pull cover off and take pict...*


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

generating pain said:


> *######################################
> ######################################
> 
> I just saw this!...sorry I missed it!...I never bought into the idea that bold or caps is yelling....I use it as emphasis and to secregate portions of the conversation.
> ...


The rotor is designed to float and find center, it is not a fixed position. If you have that much slop the endbell is worn.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> The rotor is designed to float and find center, it is not a fixed position. If you have that much slop the endbell is worn.


############################
############################

*The outer surface of the bearing fits tightly into the endbell....Difficult to see if seated all the way in.*...


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Just for info, the ends of a motor are usually referred to as the 'drive end' (the one with the output shaft) and the 'non-drive end' (the one with the start switch).


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

just the cowboy said:


> It is the piece to the very left in this picture next to the bearing.
> View attachment 163997


Odd as it may sound, this is called the 'wavy washer'.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> Just for info, the ends of a motor are usually referred to as the 'drive end' (the one with the output shaft) and the 'non-drive end' (the one with the start switch).


*############################
###########################
*
Just for info, the ends of a motor are usually referred to as the 'drive end' (the one with the output shaft) and the 'non-drive end' (the one with the start switch).
*No problem...but, it's difficult to un-learn something when one is comfortable refering to it for a while.*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> Odd as it may sound, this is called the 'wavy washer'.


*########################################
#######################################

Sounds logical....When I used to rebuild transmissions for my friends, there was a very similar ring we knick-named a "wobble ring".......It would stop the "slamming/hard hitting" of the shift points and allow the slower building of pressure in the clutch/friction pack..*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Will attempt to clean up my garage which is a disaster and later, pick up a Square-D disconnect for this compressor....Have been tormented with removing the L+R control arms from my vehicle...Bolts are torqued in at 150ft lbs and a 450lb impact gun would not loosen the bolts.......Fuinally gave up and used a long breaker bar and piece of pipe.......My garage is littered with oily tools and socket sets.......iugh.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> The rotor is designed to float and find center, it is not a fixed position. If you have that much slop the endbell is worn.


*###########################
##########################

You have indicated that the rotor "floats"....Are ya sure?....The rear (got it correct this time!) of the rotor has a bearing that apperas to be pressed onto the shaft and the outter bearing surface fits into a "race" (so-to-speak) on the cover when the cover is applied (tight fit)....

I have examined the "centrifugal start switch" and re-assessed the position of the switch "tab" that rides on the "brown disc" (as previously pictured) and the rotor position....The "disc" at rest, is extended to the end of the rotor shaft and, when the motor is started the disc begins to retract (pull back) due to the weights/springs expanding........A set of contacts at rest are CLOSED which enables the START capacitor to be in the circuit......When the motor reaches speed, the brown disc pulls back and OPENS the contacts dropping the START capacitor out of the circuit......When this occurs, that movement causes another set of contacts to close, which then switches power and brings the run capacitor into service.....

What I am getting at is, that the rotor should not "float" latterally in and out but, should stay fixed, being held in by the rear bearing race.....The brown disc is fixed to the rotor shaft and is the reference point......If the shaft "floats" so would that reference poinf to the switch contacts.

It is very difficult to see if that rear bearing is all the way into the rear motor cover which has the "race" in it....I do know that it took a little bit of "oomph" to remove the rear cover.

Next step is to determine if I can see if the rear bearings' outer surface is going all the way into that "race" and also to lightly clear the previously mentioned contacts.....

If all else fails, will have to reluctantly remove the FRONT pully and front cover and see what's what.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

you are exactly correct about how the switch works
most motors leave the run cap in the circuit all the time
i agree that the shaft should not be allowed to float in any direction

so now you are looking for the reason the shaft does float


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> you are exactly correct about how the switch works
> most motors leave the run cap in the circuit all the time
> i agree that the shaft should not be allowed to float in any direction
> 
> so now you are looking for the reason the shaft does float


########################
########################

*Thanks for the reply....

Yes...the thing is, that when the motor "screws-up", I can take the front motor shaft with pulley and push it in and out of the motor housing.....I should not be able to do this is my belief....There is no "wobble" or other slop in it indicating worn/demolished bearings or covers....If the rear rotor bearing were seated all the way into the rear cover race, I do not believe that the rotor would move in and out at all and, will be in a "fixed" position which, in turn, will keep that aforementioned brown disc in a fixed position (when at rest) and the only movement of it will be due to the weights providing the cut-in 
cut-out reference point for the centrifugal switch....If the rotor moves in and out, that reference point is lost and no telling when the contacts will open and close....There appears to be no adjustment for this type of switch but, have read others are easily adjustable...I am fearfull of doing damage if I install the rear cover and tap on the front shaft which has the pulley to seat the bearing into the rear race.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

so now you are_* looking for the reason*_ the shaft does float

as in which part is broken to allow it to misfunction


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> o now you are_* looking for the reason*_ the shaft does float
> 
> as in which part is broken to allow it to misfunction


#########################
########################

o now you are_* looking for the reason*_ the shaft does float
as in which part is broken to allow it to misfunction
*???...I have always been looking for the reason as to why this compressor motor is faulting....I am not sure I understand your statement....When something doesn't work, is that not the process to look for the cause????.....I am also NOT sure anything is broken and have some of my rational' posted above.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

so if the shaft should not float .... yet it does and the motor isnt reliable .... is the motor broken or fixed ?
you may not have found it, but something is obviously wrong as you have said
not trying to insult your intelligence, just boiling it down as part of the obvious trouble shooting path that you and i are following
when i come to a point where i have eliminated my suspicions, it helps me to focus to state the obvious next step which i havent checked

it may be possible that the front and rear bearings do not fit tightly in the covers, and so the bearings even tho tight on the shaft are slipping in the covers
im not there, so i cant help you look, but i am trying to think of something worth checking that we havent checked yet

i may not be doing well but i am trying to be helpful, and not insulting, if i have been insulting please excuse me ?


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

If your not willing to remove the sheave and the front endbell, and then the rotor, its likely you will never determine the problem.

Seems clear to me without looking that the rotor is moving too far into the front endbell.


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

To tag onto @CMP post, the shaft end is going to be positively retained in the end bell by a snap ring, circlip, or bolted retaining plate. The opposite end will have a Belleville washer, or wave washer and allow a small amount of end float for thermal expansion relief.
To find the problem, you’ll need to dismantle the motor both ends.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> so if the shaft should not float .... yet it does and the motor isnt reliable .... is the motor broken or fixed ?
> you may not have found it, but something is obviously wrong as you have said
> not trying to insult your intelligence, just boiling it down as part of the obvious trouble shooting path that you and i are following
> when i come to a point where i have eliminated my suspicions, it helps me to focus to state the obvious next step which i havent checked
> ...


########################################
########################################

so if the shaft should not floa
*THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE FOR IF IT DID THE REFERENCE POINT(S) PERTAINING TO THE "SWITCH' WOULD NOT BE CONTINUOUSLY SUSTAINED.*

.... yet it does and the motor isnt reliable ....
*CORRECT AS IT IS NOT RELIABLE*

is the motor broken or fixed ?
*MOTOR RUNS BUT, ON OCASSIONAL START-UP THE MOTOR FAULTS (ALMOST LIKE IT IS BINDING)....SOMETHIMES I CAN PUT THE ROTOR IN OR OUT WHICH WILL CHANGE TEH REFERENCE POINTS TO THE START SWITCH AND MOTOR RUNS FINE.....IF TO SAY THEN THAT IT IS BROKEN, THEN IT IS.*

you may not have found it,
*CORRECT, BUT, STILL BELIEVE THAT THE ROTOR SHAFT SHOULD NOT MOVE "IN AND OUT" AND THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD HOLD IT "STEADY" WOULD BE THE FRONT AND REAR BEARINGS...TO NOTE, I HAVE NOT YET REMOVED THE FRONT COVER AT THE PULLEY.*

but something is obviously wrong as you have said
*YUP*

not trying to insult your intelligence, just boiling it down as part of the obvious trouble shooting path that you and i are following
*OK*

when i come to a point where i have eliminated my suspicions, it helps me to focus to state the obvious next step which i havent checked
*OK*

it may be possible that the front and rear bearings do not fit tightly in the covers, 
*I KNOW THAT THE REAR DOES FOR SURE*.

and so the bearings even tho tight on the shaft are slipping in the covers
*I HAD CONSIDERD THAT BUT, AS FREE AS THE BEARING ITSELF ROTATES, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THE OUTER SURFACE OF THE REAR BEARING IS SLIPPING/ROTATING IN THE REAR COVER "RACE" (I THINK I SAID THAT CORRECTLY)..*

im not there, so i cant help you look,
*CORRECT*

but i am trying to think of something worth checking that we havent checked yet
*I THINK THE FRONT BEARING AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, WILL HAVE TO BE MY NEXT STEP.*

i may not be doing well but i am trying to be helpful,
*YEAH...I KNOW*

and not insulting, if i have been insulting please excuse me ? 
*NO PROBLEM *


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

@generating pain .... i think this is your answer



460 Delta said:


> To tag onto @CMP post, the shaft end is going to be positively retained in the end bell by a snap ring, circlip, or bolted retaining plate. The opposite end will have a Belleville washer, or wave washer and allow a small amount of end float for thermal expansion relief.
> To find the problem, you’ll need to dismantle the motor both ends.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> If your not willing to remove the sheave and the front endbell, and then the rotor, its likely you will never determine the problem.
> 
> Seems clear to me without looking that the rotor is moving too far into the front endbell.


##############################
##############################

If your not willing to remove the sheave 
*SHEAVE?...HUH?*

and the front endbell,
*WILL HAVE TO AS STATED IN MY LAST POST AS I JUST WALKED IN THE DOOR FROM CHURCH.*

and then the rotor, its likely you will never determine the problem.
*AGREED...NOT SURE HOW MUCH DIFFICULTY I WILL HAVE REMOVING THE PULLEY FROM THE SHAFT BUT, IF IT GIVES ME TROUBLE, SHOULD I NOT BE ABLE TO PULL THE ROTOR AND PULLY OUT AS ONE PIECE?*

Seems clear to me without looking that the rotor is moving too far into the front endbell. 
*I HAVE WITNESSED THE OTHER DAY THAT THE SHAFT (FRONT END) WILL MOVE OUTWARD (AWAY FROM THE MOTOR BODY) A BIT...POSSIBLY, THE FRONT BEARING TOOK A DUMP...*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> @generating pain .... i think this is your answer


*########################
########################

WELL, I WIL HAVE TO TRY MY HAND AT REMOVING THE FRONT MOTOR COVER.....HAVE TO MAKE A SKETCH OF HOW THE WIRES ATTACH AT THE REAR HOUSING.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

if you think it is possible , remove just the front cover to begin with , you may not need to remove the drive sheave/pulley, or the rear cover .... 
*if* the rotor and shaft will slip out of the rear cover and can then be pulled thru and out of the stator/ body of the motor from the front cover side
at least to see what is wrong at the inside of the front cover

normally there are only two wires on the centrifugal switch, if you have to do that


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If the pulley (sheave) has a sort of collar on the outside with 2 or 3 blots in it, then it is called a 'malleable split taper'. They don't look like it but they are pretty easy to remove. 

If that's what you have, there are at least a dozen of us who can guide you through how to remove it. I'd post it but it takes a while and ti might not be what you have, 

A pic showing the pulley and the shaft would help a lot.


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

A cheap motor like that will never have a split taper sheave on it, it wasn’t built for servicing.

To take the sheave off you will need to fully reassemble the motor. Doing otherwise it’s guaranteed that you will damage the internals trying to do so. File the shaft of any burrs on it, use penetrating oil, and plenty of patience. A puller could be handy if you have one. But you may need to use some love taps with a wood block, and alternating from side to side. This is where the damage occurs if the motor is disassembled.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> if you think it is possible , remove just the front cover to begin with , you may not need to remove the drive sheave/pulley, or the rear cover ....
> *if* the rotor and shaft will slip out of the rear cover and can then be pulled thru and out of the stator/ body of the motor from the front cover side
> at least to see what is wrong at the inside of the front cover
> 
> normally there are only two wires on the centrifugal switch, if you have to do that


*################################
###############################*

if you think it is possible , remove just the front cover to begin with ,
*was going to try that to at least get a peek.*

you may not need to remove the drive sheave/pulley, or the rear cover ....
*well I may be able to remove rotor out the back but, will have to see about clearences...may try this first.*

if the rotor and shaft will slip out of the rear cover and can then be pulled thru and out of the stator/ body of the motor from the front cover side
*I somehow think that the front is of a design like the back where the front bearing is pressed onto the front shaft and the race is part of the front motor cover......To pull rotor out, pulley has to be removed (obvioulsy) and, I have not seen how the pulley is attached to shaft - hopefully via 
set-screw.....Then, there is the problem getting the front rotor shaft back into the front race of the cover - it is a tight fit.*

at least to see what is wrong at the inside of the front cover
*agreed*

normally there are only two wires on the centrifugal switch, if you have to do that
*only 2 wires from the switch go to the rotor assembly? *


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> If the pulley (sheave) has a sort of collar on the outside with 2 or 3 blots in it, then it is called a 'malleable split taper'. They don't look like it but they are pretty easy to remove.
> 
> If that's what you have, there are at least a dozen of us who can guide you through how to remove it. I'd post it but it takes a while and ti might not be what you have,
> 
> A pic showing the pulley and the shaft would help a lot.


*##############################
##############################*

If the pulley (sheave) has a sort of collar on the outside with 2 or 3 blots in it, then it is called a 'malleable split taper'. They don't look like it but they are pretty easy to remove. 
*a-ok*

If that's what you have, there are at least a dozen of us who can guide you through how to remove it. I'd post it but it takes a while and ti might not be what you have, 
*very agreed.....I will see about getting picts soonest.*

A pic showing the pulley and the shaft would help a lot.
*very agreed.....I will see about getting picts soonest.*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Once you get the front end bell off the rotor and shaft, it should be clear to you why there is so much end play with the shaft. As someone earlier mentioned the rotor should be affixed to the front end bell, and the rear end bell should have a end play take up spring, to allow for expansion and contraction of the shaft.

On a cheap design motor like you have the front end bearing is normally a press fit in the end bell (no end play movement).

Because you have copious amounts of end play, that generally means that the front bearing has locked up and spun in the end bell and chewed up the aluminum end bell socket and is no longer capable of holding the bearing properly in a fixed position, hence you get lots of end play.

Thats why your bud sold it to you for a spare, it was starting to do this on him and he broomed the problem to you, it just took you 10 years to find it.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> A cheap motor like that will never have a split taper sheave on it, it wasn’t built for servicing.
> 
> To take the sheave off you will need to fully reassemble the motor. Doing otherwise it’s guaranteed that you will damage the internals trying to do so. File the shaft of any burrs on it, use penetrating oil, and plenty of patience. A puller could be handy if you have one. But you may need to use some love taps with a wood block, and alternating from side to side. This is where the damage occurs if the motor is disassembled.


*#############################
#############################*

To take the sheave off you will need to fully reassemble the motor.
*I see....*

Doing otherwise it’s guaranteed that you will damage the internals trying to do so.
*ok*

File the shaft of any burrs on it, use penetrating oil, and plenty of patience.
*I understand*

A puller could be handy if you have one.
*I believe I may a small one that I can utilize...*

But you may need to use some love taps with a wood block, 
*sledge hammer and a brick---ok, got-cha! (grin)..*

and alternating from side to side. This is where the damage occurs if the motor is disassembled.
*agreed...*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> Once you get the front end bell off the rotor and shaft, it should be clear to you why there is so much end play with the shaft. As someone earlier mentioned the rotor should be affixed to the front end bell, and the rear end bell should have a end play take up spring, to allow for expansion and contraction of the shaft.
> 
> On a cheap design motor like you have the front end bearing is normally a press fit in the end bell (no end play movement).
> 
> ...


*###############################
###############################*

Once you get the front end bell off the rotor and shaft, it should be clear to you why there is so much end play with the shaft. 
*OK*

As someone earlier mentioned the rotor should be affixed to the front end bell, 
*YES*

and the rear end bell should have a end play take up spring, to allow for expansion and contraction of the shaft.
*IT DOES NOT.....LIKE I STATED, THE OUTSIDESURFACE OF THE REAR BEARING THAT IS PRESSED ONTO THE REAR ROTOR SHAFT FITS TIGHTLY INTO THE RACE THAT IS PART (OR APPEARS TO BE) OF THE REAR COVER*

On a cheap design motor like you have the front end bearing is normally a press fit in the end bell (no end play movement).
*INTO THE END BELL??...I FIGURED IT WAS AS THE REAR DESIGN, THAT THE RACE IS PART OF THE COVER AND, THE BEARING IS PRESSED ON THE FRONT ROTOR SHAFT WITH THAT BEARINGS OUTTER SURFACE FITTING INTO THE RACE...*.

Because you have copious amounts of end play, that generally means that the front bearing has locked up and spun in the end bell and chewed up the aluminum end bell socket and is no longer capable of holding the bearing properly in a fixed position, hence you get lots of end play.
*HOPE NOT BUT, WILL HAVE TO LOOK...MY PARTIAL FEAR IS THAT ONE I DISLODGE THE FRONT ROTOR SHAFT FROM THE FRONT COVER, WILL I/COULD I EVER GET IT BACK AGAIN.*

Thats why your bud sold it to you for a spare, it was starting to do this on him and he broomed the problem to you, it just took you 10 years to find it. 
*COULD BE BUT, I DOUBT IT.....I DO TRUST HIM AND HE IS NOT ELECTRICALLY KNOWLEGEABLE BY ANY MEANS.....HE USED TO DO CERAMICS IN HIS GARAGE AND HE USED THE COMPRESSOR FOR WHATEVER DOING IT.....OH, AND IT IS 20+ YEARS AS THIS IS HOW LONG THE COMPRESSOR HAS BEEN SITTING.*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *################################
> ###############################*
> 
> if you think it is possible , remove just the front cover to begin with ,
> ...


lemme see if i can find you a video


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> lemme see if i can find you a video


*##########################
##########################

Pleasse don't put yourself out any more than you have....Enjoy your Sunday...This is all a huge learning experience for me and I appreciate the help FROM EVERYONE!.....

Gonna take a break here for a bit, else I will wind up rocking back and forth under my kitchen table!...(hahahah)......Back after a bit.*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Take it apart and see for yourself how it is put together. Seeing is believing …

The rear end bell bearing fit is a slip fit, not pressed on, that is why you were able to get the rear end bell off.

The front bearing should be a press fit of a sealed, one piece bearing. It won’t be now because you have end play.

Don't be afraid of tearing into it, you can’t break it cause its already broken, but you could learn something from the experience.


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

take a look at this , with the drive end cover screws removed , you can see how the stator/body of the motor will lift off of the rotor and shaft
now you can look at how the front cover holds the shaft
it may be a press fit bearing, or something else

in any event ... if the front cover bearing seat is damaged in any way ... you probably need a new motor


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> Take it apart and see for yourself how it is put together. Seeing is believing …
> 
> The rear end bell bearing fit is a slip fit, not pressed on, that is why you were able to get the rear end bell off.
> 
> ...


############################
############################

Take it apart and see for yourself how it is put together. Seeing is believing …
*agreed...*

The rear end bell bearing fit is a slip fit, not pressed on, that is why you were able to get the rear end bell off.
*uhhh....the sealed bearing is VERY tight on the end rotor shaft and is immovable by hand (bearing is good)...The bearings' outside surface is placed and rides inside the race of the rear cover and by light prying, removed the rear cover.*

The front bearing should be a press fit of a sealed, one piece bearing.
*same as to what is on the rear in my thinking......*









*1 is obviously the outside of the sealed bearing on the rotor shaft - this surface is "inserted" into the rear bearing race that is part of the rear cover...

2 is obviously the end (rear) of the rotor shaft.

I am also thinking that the front cover race is the same....*
It won’t be now because you have end play.

Don't be afraid of tearing into it, you can’t break it cause its already broken, but you could learn something from the experience.
*yeah, but, I could severely increase my cost to repair damages.

**AN OBSERVATION - *

_*The part of the rotor shaft that is/was sticking out of the front motor case appeared dusty and with trace amounts of surface rust on it......

When the motor comes on, I can see the front rotor shaft extend out of the motor case end-cap of the motor.....

With the motor is energized, the shaft moves out a bit, exposing what I believe should be and always has been w/in the motor housing....That part of the rotor shaft is shiney...

I cannot see if the rear external bearing surface was inserted all the way into the rear bearing race.*_

*The only answer I can come up with for the excessive rotor play is, that the rear bearing is not going into or, not going in far enough into that rear race.....I would love to tap on the front motor shaft at the pulley and with the back cover on to see it I can get it to seat in but, much fear of damaging the motor...*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> take a look at this , with the drive end cover screws removed , you can see how the stator/body of the motor will lift off of the rotor and shaft
> now you can look at how the front cover holds the shaft
> it may be a press fit bearing, or something else
> 
> in any event ... if the front cover bearing seat is damaged in any way ... you probably need a new motor


*####################
####################

The symptoms appear to be very close to what I have......Further, the "concrete dust" found in the video's rotor case is much like the ceramic dust I found inside the motor case but, much lighter...(my friend and his wife did ceramics in their garage for years).

I was thinking of doing the contacts sometime this week as soon as time permits and see what happens...COULD BE!........I also watched the guy beat the $-it out of the rotor end to seat the bearings into the case races which seems to bolster my perception that the bearings and not seated here....worth a try at least!*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

You need to look at that front end bell, that bearing should be a press fit, as stated earlier.

You should not be able to pull that end bell off of the rotor shaft by hand, the bearing is walking back and forth in the endbell bore, and it should be tightly affixed to the bore (press fit). Show us what you got on the front end bell bore. I bet the bore shows wear marks inside of it, as compared to the smooth machined surface of the rear end bell.

If it was tight as it should be, you wouldn’t be able to pull the front end bell off without a press or some pounding, to undo the press fit.


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

The rear bearing is supposed to slide in the rear end bell, not a press fit, to allow for expansion and contraction of the rotor and shaft. The front bearing should be locked to the front end bell by friction (press fit) or by a bearing retaining plate or nut which you don't see on smaller motors. Check the bore hole for wear marks, the bearingt should no be able to be pulled out by hand. Is the bearing crunchy feeling when turned by hand? Any resistance will be multiplied when spinning at 3600 RPM.

If the end bell socket is chewed up too loose to fit, the normal fix is to bore it larger and press in a ring and machine it to tightly press fit the bearing, Aluminum end bells normally don't have enough material to do this and it can be as costly as a new small motor when done at a precision shop.


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

You never showed us a motor tag, but this is the type I believe that you have *from worst to better*, better to carefully check the specifications and compare to the one you have. HP, frame size, shaft size, rotation, FLA, RPM, SF


https://www.amazon.com/3450RPM-Single-Phase-Electric-Compressor/dp/B07VVJVG3G

5 HP SPL 3450 RPM Air Compressor 60Hz Electric Motor 208-230V 56Frame 5/8" Shaft | eBay

Leeson Air Compressor Electric Motor 5SPL HP, Model# 116845 | Northern Tool

120554.00 Leeson | 5 hp 3450 RPM 145T 230V Air Compressor Motor


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> You need to look at that front end bell, that bearing should be a press fit, as stated earlier.
> 
> You should not be able to pull that end bell off of the rotor shaft by hand, the bearing is walking back and forth in the endbell bore, and it should be tightly affixed to the bore (press fit). Show us what you got on the front end bell bore. I bet the bore shows wear marks inside of it, as compared to the smooth machined surface of the rear end bell.
> 
> If it was tight as it should be, you wouldn’t be able to pull the front end bell off without a press or some pounding, to undo the press fit.


############################
############################

You need to look at that front end bell, that bearing should be a press fit, as stated earlier.
*press fit onto or into what?...if it is anything like the rear bearing like the bearing pictured, will not come off easily.*

You should not be able to pull that end bell off of the rotor shaft by hand,
*I didn't...I had to get a screwdriver or similar and work around (tap around) the rear cover to get it off...Then, wiggle it a bit back and forth and the rear bearing came out of the race....It didn't just come off with a slight pull or twist.*

the bearing is walking back and forth in the endbell bore,
*From what I see (limited visual), it is NOT doing that....It is a b-tch to get the bearing into the race to begin with but, it does go in a bit...What I will do is, insert a wood dowel into the hole in the end of the rear cap ....(There is a tin(?) cap, probably an inspection cover, that pops into the end cover and I can see the rotor/bearing and the bearing edge and space between that and the rest of the race) and then active the motor soonest and see if the dowel moves in/out/etc ...I am betting that it will not move "in and out.*

and it should be tightly affixed to the bore (press fit).
*see above..I want to seat the bearing into the rac but, afraid of doing damage.*

Show us what you got on the front end bell bore.
*I will soonest.*

I bet the bore shows wear marks inside of it, as compared to the smooth machined surface of the rear end bell.
*will have to see as above*

If it was tight as it should be, you wouldn’t be able to pull the front end bell off without a press or some pounding, to undo the press fit.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> The rear bearing is supposed to slide in the rear end bell, not a press fit, to allow for expansion and contraction of the rotor and shaft. The front bearing should be locked to the front end bell by friction (press fit) or by a bearing retaining plate or nut which you don't see on smaller motors. Check the bore hole for wear marks, the bearingt should no be able to be pulled out by hand. Is the bearing crunchy feeling when turned by hand? Any resistance will be multiplied when spinning at 3600 RPM.
> 
> If the end bell socket is chewed up too loose to fit, the normal fix is to bore it larger and press in a ring and machine it to tightly press fit the bearing, Aluminum end bells normally don't have enough material to do this and it can be as costly as a new small motor when done at a precision shop.


##############################
#############################

The rear bearing is supposed to slide in the rear end bell, not a press fit,
*yes, I know that...It does slide in part way but, appears not all the way in....I can still put the end rear cover back on..*

to allow for expansion and contraction of the rotor and shaft. The front bearing should be locked to the front end bell by friction (press fit) or by a bearing retaining plate or nut which you don't see on smaller motors.
*I cannot comment as I have not seen the front end cover off....However, I think that both ends (front and rear) have identical bearings as pictured, and both ends are fixed by sliding into a race in the front and back covers...In the posted video, the tech was hammering the "crapola" at the end to drive the bearing into the race(s).*

Check the bore hole for wear marks,
*I did look at the rear bearing race area and saw no damages, scrapes, cracks, etc.*

the bearingt should no be able to be pulled out by hand.
*To be clear, I did not pull-remove the bearing from the rotor shaft, I ONLY removed the rear cover away from the motor case and the bearing that is affixed to that rotor shaft.....*

Is the bearing crunchy feeling when turned by hand?
*No, smooth as silk and so is the surface area that slides into the rear race.*

Any resistance will be multiplied when spinning at 3600 RPM.
*n/a*

If the end bell socket is chewed up too loose to fit,
*N/A...it is not*

the normal fix is to bore it larger and press in a ring and machine it to tightly press fit the bearing, Aluminum end bells normally don't have enough material to do this and it can be as costly as a new small motor when done at a precision shop.
*If that proves the case, I will roll this MF'er out to the street.

*Time to get some sleep - eastern time zone...will check this tommorow....THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE AND INFO>*


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

To get the bearing out of the drive-end bell, heat it up a bit. The aluminum end bell will expand more that the steel bearing.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> To get the bearing out of the drive-end bell, heat it up a bit. The aluminum end bell will expand more that the steel bearing.


*####################################
####################################*

*UPDATES...*
*Was able to muscle the compressor out from the corner and remove rear pulley and belt cover.......I took a few picts of the pulley "face", bolts mounting pulley to motor/rotor shaft and rear bell covers' inspection port....*

*WHAT I FOUND - *

*You are correct and I stand corrected!....I managed to turn compressor around for better viewing and, with the rear end bell port cover off, briefly energized the motor...I observed the rotor SLIDE FORWARD TO FRONT OF MOTOR CASE.....*

*INFO FROM MOTOR DATA TAG -*
*Ingersol Rand IR5E6VA*

*Ingersol-Rand
Motor part #..........................................8-173894-2 
FR X56Y
HP......................................................... 5 SPL 
RPM......................................................3450
Volts.....................................................230vac 
15.0 AMPS
TIME CONT.*

**I did lightly clean the contacts although, I did not check them for continuity yet.

*








Pict 1...angled picture of rear cover bearing race.









Pict 2...straight on pict of rear cover bearing race









Pict 3...picture of rear motor pulley.









Pict 4...close up picture of bolts holding pulley to motor. You can see where rust stops and shiney rotor shaft begins at motor case.









Pict 5...side picture of bolts holding pulley to motor.









Pict 6...angled side picture of motor end bell and rotor shaft exiting FRONT of motor and partial motor end. The rotor shaft is all the in towards the rear and all you can see is the rust on the rotor shaft and no portion "shiney".









Pict 7...rear cover with small tin inspection cover removed exposing bearing...The bearing DOES RIDE in and out of race but, does not "slip" meaning that the outside surface of bearing does not rotate.*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Pulley is a Browning H split bushing. Take out the 1/4” bolts and grind off the first thread. Install the newly modified bolts into the pusher holes 90 degrees from the previous ones. Tighten them up and the pulley should push off. If it won’t, get it tight as you can without breaking the bolts, and hit the bushing onto the shaft farther with a brass hammer or a brass punch. A couple hits will dislodge it. With the pulley off, tap a beater screwdriver into the split to slightly enlarge the bushing and tap it off.
With that out of the way the problem that is in the end bell bearing retention should be obvious.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Pulley is a Browning H split bushing. 
*uh.....ok...????*

Take out the 1/4” bolts and grind off the first thread.
*now i'm getting worried....*

Install the newly modified bolts into the pusher holes 90 degrees from the previous ones.
*"pusher holes"????...Are you refering to the 2 holes I see looking at the face of the pulley??.....Would not it be easier to simply buy a few hardened bolts from Lowes?







*

Tighten them up and the pulley should push off.
*...as the sweat starts to bead and drip from my forehead...*

If it won’t, get it tight as you can without breaking the bolts,
w*ould be difficult to tell if tight as possible and will only find out after it snaps off...*

and hit the bushing onto the shaft farther with a brass hammer or a brass punch. 
*huh????....Today was garbage day...I should have rolled this #()&)(&^ down to the curb!...ugh!....I am TOTALLY LOST.....IF, and I mean IF I can find bolts to PURCHASE after determining size and pitch, and apply to the 2 holes I see on the face of the pulley (since they are 90* apart), would not I have had to remove the 2 bolts pictured "in the back of the assembly first"?.....Then, I would have to remove the front motor cover end bell to acess any bushing??...Damn, my head is spinning!...What I see in the - below pict:









--are two bolts emminating from a "collar" on the front rotor shaft...Is that collar part of the motor rotor shaft?? (it appears to be).*

A couple hits will dislodge it. With the pulley off, tap a beater screwdriver into the split to slightly enlarge the bushing and tap it off.
*%#^%&(()&%&&_(()#*&^%&*(!.....(passing out on the floor)....*

With that out of the way_* the problem that is in the end bell bearing retention*_ should be obvious. 
*I can completely remove the end bell housing and in fact, it is currently hanging by the wires as we "speak"......I see the end rear bearing race - the bearing on the rotor - witnessed the rotor SLIDE FORWARD when the motor was turned "ON" like someone said it was supposed to.....I visually see no damages to anything, no defects in the race, end cover, bearing...nothing.... What am I supposed to be looking for?

I sent Ingersol-Rand an e-mail late today to see if they can send me specs and a cross-section of the motor.....I also looked around and without those specs, can't even consider a replacement motor as need rotor shat length, diameter, etc....Some of the motors I have seen and too expensive for me.....Fixed income and disabled here so I may have to make a giant BBQ grill out of this...*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Take a breath. 
After you remove the 1/4”x28x1 1/4” bolts, there will be pusher holes a quarter turn from the holes you just took the bolts from. 
Just a quick twist on the grinding wheel to take off the first thread so when you put the torque to it and it partially flattens you’ll be able to get it back out. 
The bore of the pulley is a taper and so is the outside of the bushing. Sometimes they will be difficult to separate if someone got aggressive tightening the bolts. The swarp with the hammer is jar loose the friction grip of the two pieces.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If you need to use a hammer, remember to hold the pulley, otherwise it'll fall to the floor.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> Take a breath.
> After you remove the 1/4”x28x1 1/4” bolts, there will be pusher holes a quarter turn from the holes you just took the bolts from.
> Just a quick twist on the grinding wheel to take off the first thread so when you put the torque to it and it partially flattens you’ll be able to get it back out.
> The bore of the pulley is a taper and so is the outside of the bushing. Sometimes they will be difficult to separate if someone got aggressive tightening the bolts. The swarp with the hammer is jar loose the friction grip of the two pieces.


###########################
###########################

Take a breath.
*breath nothin'...I need an O2 tank!*

After you remove the 1/4”x28x1 1/4” bolts, there will be pusher holes a quarter turn from the holes you just took the bolts from.
*on the same side as the bolts I would be removing?....what then are the holes in the face of the pulley?...should I ignore them?*

Just a quick twist on the grinding wheel to take off the first thread so when you put the torque to it and it partially flattens you’ll be able to get it back out.
*Any way I could just purchase some case hardened grade 8 bolts to do this?.....If the first thread is oblitereated how then will I be able to thread it into "whatever"?.....Hate also to strip anything out. *

The bore of the pulley is a taper and so is the outside of the bushing. 
*I could figure on the pulley taper but, is not the bearing similar to the rear case bearing??.....I wish I had picts of all this.....Hope IR can come up with something...*

Sometimes they will be difficult to separate if someone got aggressive tightening the bolts.
*This is all stock so, whatever the factory did will be present.*

The swarp with the hammer is jar loose the friction grip of the two pieces.
*"swarp"???...(grin).....typo 'eh?

*It was mentioned that, after the front bearing and pulley is removed, I would see the "obvious damage" in/at the rear case bearing area...WHAT would I be looking for as I see nothing and, if I yanked the rotor completely out of this, would that make a difference?*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Boy, that’s a lot of exasperation to find out the front end bell is wallered out. And he’s still referring to the rear end bell… 😳 I guess you have to learn some sort of way.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

micromind said:


> If you need to use a hammer, remember to hold the pulley, otherwise it'll fall to the floor.


*################
################
I would probably tie a short piece of wire to it to prevent this.......Are ya reasonably sure the rotor will not be damaged??*


CMP said:


> Boy, that’s a lot of exasperation to find out the front end bell is wallered out. And he’s still referring to the rear end bell… 😳 I guess you have to learn some sort of way.


*##########################
yeah, but, it seems that I am being sent to issues IN/ON the rear bell....Exasperated - you bet.*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Take a gander at the split taper bushing and sheave instuctions, it may relieve some anxiety.



https://documents.mrosupply.com/product_documents/W2/W2%203%201/2/FORM4013.PDF


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Ok, take a long pull off of your oxygen tank and settle down. 
You can get some Gr 8 bolts if you want to, but make sure you have enough threads to push it apart. The factory bolts are tap bolts, they are completely threaded with no shoulder.
The tapped pusher holes are on the same side as you removed them from. What you are seeing on the outside is where the holes pulling it together have been tapped clean through. 
If you happen to buy Lake Erie, or Nucor bolts, they already have the first thread chamfered off automatically, otherwise I recommend you grind off the very first thread on the bolts. Or don’t, and you’ll see what I mean when you try and take the bolts out. 
Swarp wasn’t a typo. It’s Appalachian for a clean, smart, kerwallop.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> Take a gander at the split taper bushing and sheave instuctions, it may relieve some anxiety.
> 
> 
> 
> https://documents.mrosupply.com/product_documents/W2/W2%203%201/2/FORM4013.PDF


*###########################
###########################
a bit...never saw an open bushing like that.*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> Ok, take a long pull off of your oxygen tank and settle down.
> You can get some Gr 8 bolts if you want to, but make sure you have enough threads to push it apart. The factory bolts are tap bolts, they are completely threaded with no shoulder.
> The tapped pusher holes are on the same side as you removed them from. What you are seeing on the outside is where the holes pulling it together have been tapped clean through.
> If you happen to buy Lake Erie, or Nucor bolts, they already have the first thread chamfered off automatically, otherwise I recommend you grind off the very first thread on the bolts. Or don’t, and you’ll see what I mean when you try and take the bolts out.
> Swarp wasn’t a typo. It’s Appalachian for a clean, smart, kerwallop.


*##########################
##########################*

Ok, take a long pull off of your oxygen tank and settle down.
gasp - gasp!

You can get some Gr 8 bolts if you want to, but make sure you have enough threads to push it apart. The factory bolts are tap bolts, they are completely threaded with no shoulder.
*damn!...always problems...*

The tapped pusher holes are on the same side as you removed them from.
*I understand...Now accepting the award is Generating Pain!.*...

What you are seeing on the outside is where the holes pulling it together have been tapped clean through.
If you happen to buy Lake Erie, or Nucor bolts, they already have the first thread chamfered off automatically, otherwise I recommend you grind off the very first thread on the bolts. Or don’t, and you’ll see what I mean when you try and take the bolts out.
*yes, but, it just seems to me that f-ing up the thread(s) and putting back in (forcing?) will screw up threads.*

Swarp wasn’t a typo. It’s Appalachian for a clean, smart, kerwallop.
*ha!...I had no idea....

**The motor is still mounted on frame - better to leave it on there or, remove it to do this?*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Will start "loading up" the bolts with PB Blaster this morning to loosen same......

Have been looking around should this endeavor "go bad"...Found a motor and IF I have to bail myself out on this, inquire to "you(s)" if this would suffice....My big compressor is hardly used so, it's not like this one either is going to be used in a commercial garage...I am confused how motors are "detailed"...My current motor is 5 hp yet, see ebay ads like list as Motor 5HP SPL...huh?* *(not sure if I am allowed to post an ebay link).









NEW Air Compressor Motor 5HP SPL 1 Phase 56 Frame 3450RPM 5/8" Shaft 230V 15Amps | eBay


They are all fall under the umbrella of whats known as 3600RPM motors. 1 x 5HP SPL Compressor Duty Electric Motor(3.5HP). If your machine requires a 230V electric motor on single phase power. You would want to incorporate a 1-phase 230V AC electric motor for your application.



www.ebay.com




*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

generating pain said:


> *Will start "loading up" the bolts with PB Blaster this morning to loosen same......
> 
> Have been looking around should this endeavor "go bad"...Found a motor and IF I have to bail myself out on this, inquire to "you(s)" if this would suffice....My big compressor is hardly used so, it's not like this one either is going to be used in a commercial garage...I am confused how motors are "detailed"...My current motor is 5 hp yet, see ebay ads like list as Motor 5HP SPL...huh?* *(not sure if I am allowed to post an ebay link).
> 
> ...


*#######################################
#######################################

....Anyone?*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *#######################################
> #######################################
> 
> ....Anyone?*


if you are asking for a recomendation on the ebay motor ?
do some shopping and compare prices
check everything you can about the mounting pattern measurements, and shaft size and length, RPM, voltage, amps etc.
the amps may not match precisely, but as long as they are within a few its fine
ask the seller questions if you need to


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> if you are asking for a recomendation on the ebay motor ?
> do some shopping and compare prices
> check everything you can about the mounting pattern measurements, and shaft size and length, RPM, voltage, amps etc.
> the amps may not match precisely, but as long as they are within a few its fine
> ask the seller questions if you need to


*######################################
#####################################

I "shopped around" till my eyeballs were laying on my cheekbones.... There was mention of a taper on the front shaft of the motor which in turn, goes into the back of the pulley...I think I am screwed because, of all the motors I have looked at, all were a typical shaft with NO taper....*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

i dont recall ever seeing a tapered shaft on a motor
except for the little 1/8 chamfer on the end

what does yours have ?

you may be confusing the taper in the 2 piece pulley with the shaft


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Things to look for when replacing a motor;

1) Frame size. Yours is very likely 56 or 56H. This is the mounting dimensions and shaft size. Any 56 frame motor will fit where any 56 frame motor was. The letters in front of the number don't mean anything but the letter behind the number does.

(2) Voltage. In your case, likely 230. 230 and 240 are the same and in most cases, 208 is the same as well. 

(3) RPM. anything from 3400 - 3600 is the same. 1700 - 1800 is the same.

(4) Single or 3 phase. Or DC.

(5) HP. Since yours is a chintzy compressor motor and HP is listed as SPL (special), you'll need to go by amps. Same or larger is OK, smaller is not OK.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> i dont recall ever seeing a tapered shaft on a motor
> except for the little 1/8 chamfer on the end
> 
> what does yours have ?
> ...


*##########################
#########################

You are probably correct.....*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Back after a short break...

Loaded the bolts down again with PB Blaster........Please see the attached pict below that shows the FRONT shaft coming from the motor to the back of the pulley.....*










*The question I have now is, that it appears (I am probably wrong as usual) that the shaft that exits the front of the motor and goes INTO the pulley is tapered as it enters the pulley--right/wrong? 

Further, there appears to be a collar of sorts (that the 2 bolts go into), is that collar part of the motor shaft or, part of the pulley?

I am aware that there is a keyed front motor shaft and, in the absence of an "end bolt", what holds the pulley on?.....I am hard pressed that, though the front shaft is keyed that, that is all there is holding that pulley...I think over time it would vibrate loose......I see no set-screws or anything and, if what I see is a tapered shaft that the pulley is affixed to, how then is the pulley held on?



















Anyone think it would be better to remove the motor from the compressor frame to work on it?.*..


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

take it apart
then you will understand


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> take it apart
> then you will understand


*###############################
##############################

yeah...I know...Just stressed a bunch.....Thanks for the reply.*


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

I sent you a instruction sheet, it could be helpful if you could read it. It even has pictures.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> I sent you a instruction sheet, it could be helpful if you could read it. It even has pictures.


*#####################################
#####################################

I re-looked that the pdf file sent/posted.....I see that the "collar" section slides onto the front motor shaft then, the pulley slides over/onto that....

It would appear that the tightening of the bolts would draw the pulley onto the shaft portion and the further or tighter it gets, the more force is exerted around the front motor shaft....

The only question I have is, is that the "collar" (tapered bushing) must be hammered onto the motor shaft until tight but, how far - untill it is tighter than a fishs' butt not letting the water in?....Would the pounding of the pulley or the tapered bushing damage the rotor any?*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

you dont pound any thing
draw it up with the bolts you see

take it apart ... you will understand perfectly


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> you dont pound any thing
> draw it up with the bolts you see
> 
> take it apart ... you will understand perfectly


*#########################
########################

Thanks for the reply(ies),

Won't there be some" resistance" as to how far the bushing/sleeve will go back onto the front shaft?...Seems to me it would have to be seated as far back as possible and then, apply the pulley and tighten.....Seating it with a hammer will insure that....If it it isn't as far back as it can go, would it not loosen up or, will the tightening of the bolts will see that it does no?...(1st time I have ever seen a bushing like this)....I am going to hit the bolts a few more times this w/e and will attempt removal mid next week...By the way, if I grind the thread (1st one) off of the removed bolts, I should be able to re-use them again, right?*


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

generating pain said:


> *#########################
> ########################
> 
> Thanks for the reply(ies),
> ...



AGAIN .... DONT POUND ANYTHING .... IT IS NOT NECESSARY and WILL cause damage

the purpose of removing one thread at the end of the bolt (not the shaft of the bolt, just the thread)
is to prevent damaging the first thread when you use the bolts to split the pulley parts
so that you can use them again

there are bolts made for this called "jack bolts" 
go to a hardware store and look at the end of them
there is some bare bolt shaft extending past the end of the thread
also see if you can locate a new pulley on the shelf so you can look at that

when you remove the bolts from the holes they are in
you next put them in the other set of holes 
which are threaded differently to cause loosening instead of tightening 
ALTERNATELY tighten them as much as you dare without stripping them
then lightly tap the pulley with a rubber hammer (so you dont break it) in the direction to move it off of the motor shaft
the pulley should pop loose from the split coupling which will then be loosened from the shaft


----------



## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

If you can’t grasp the concept from the instructions, you might want to consult with utube. 

maybe this can help. 
#############################
split taper bushing & sheave.


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

CMP said:


> If you can’t grasp the concept from the instructions, you might want to consult with utube.
> 
> maybe this can help.
> #############################
> split taper bushing & sheave.


*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A few hours ago or so, I "consulted" with u-tube and watched 2-3 vids there...I GOT IT NOW!....Cool....

Like I said earlier, will attempt removal of bushing early next week....I am not sure what I will find or, what I will be looking for after front motor end bell cap removal....

So far, I see no damages or irregularities at the rear end bell area and, was darned surprised to visually see that the rotor slides forward (as was told to me) as it cranks up to speed....*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

***Haven't given up on this yet!...Have been quite busy replacing tie-rods, control arms, ball joints, etc on my vehicle which has taken up a large portion of my time.....*


----------



## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

123 posts about air compressor in "Services and Service Equipment " section


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

readydave8 said:


> 123 posts about air compressor in "Services and Service Equipment " section


125 now ... i dont know why it was not closed to start with
clearly not an electrician


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> 125 now ... i dont know why it was not closed to start with
> clearly not an electrician


To be fair, taking off a pulley is a millwright job. Just saying.

Oh, and post 126


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

readydave8 said:


> 123 posts about air compressor in "Services and Service Equipment " section


*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*

123 posts about air compressor in "Services and Service Equipment " section 
*SO?*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> 125 now ... i dont know why it was not closed to start with
> clearly not an electrician


*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't get the "hate" all of a sudden here....geez!...As far as elecrtrician", I did strickly residential and did not fool with gens or motors for the most part.*


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> To be fair, taking off a pulley is a millwright job. Just saying.
> 
> Oh, and post 126


*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Have never seen a pulley affixed in the manner in this thread...*


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

generating pain said:


> *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Have never seen a pulley affixed in the manner in this thread...*


It’s an industrial thing I guess, way easier to assemble and dismantle, and 1 sheave can fit a wide range of shaft sizes. It makes inventory much easier to keep in stock.


----------



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

generating pain said:


> *I did strickly residential and did not fool with gens or motors for the most part.*


I would have never guessed !


Geebus, would someone go over and just fix it for him


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

emtnut said:


> I would have never guessed !
> 
> 
> Geebus, would someone go over and just fix it for him


You’re retired, and he’s in Florida. Sounds like a good way for you to warm up from the cold.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

generating pain said:


> *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Have never seen a pulley affixed in the manner in this thread...*


As noted, it's more industrial. I have worked with far more tapered-bushing pulleys that the setscrew type but I've also worked industrial more than anything else too.


----------



## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

generating pain said:


> *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*
> 
> 123 posts about air compressor in "Services and Service Equipment " section
> *SO?*


Sorry I hurt your feelings 😔 
Just trying to point out difference between "service equipment " and "servicing equipment "


----------



## generating pain (Sep 23, 2017)

*Back again - *
Just an update of sorts..._*I have not forgotten about this thread *_nor have I gotten back to the air compressor motor issue...A lot of higher priority situations have arisen here and have not had even the remotest chance getting back to this...May attempt to remove pulley, etc. w/in the next few days..


----------

