# Elevated work safety: A little help



## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey, everyone, I've got a couple questions arising from the use of scissor lifts. I took a course in scissor lift operation, and the guy teaching the course was explaining the necessity of fall arrest harnesses/lanyards. He also pointed out that every scissor lift has a set of rings on it, meant for workers on the platform to tie off to.

So I checked out our little Skyjack at the shop, and sure enough, it has two of these tie-off rings. But it's a small lift, small enough to be driven through a standard man door without dropping the side rails. Based on the width(~30"), I'm not sure these tie-off rings are doing me any favours.

The way I see it, there are two terrible things that could easily happen. Firstly, the lift could topple over sideways, and secondly, a guy could fall out. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but these are the first two that come to my mind.

So here's my concern. Let's say I'm in the lift and leaning too far out the side, and fall out. Without my harness, I'm going to make a 19' fall(the top elevation of our platform), and screw myself up in some terrible way(potentially lethal). However, with my harness, I'm going to drop for a short distance, and my lanyard will catch me. However, with such a narrow lift, and me being a 200-lb guy, I'm fairly certain that the force generated by me falling over the side will be enough to drag the lift down on top of me. Despite how badly I'll potentially be injured by falling out of the lift(with death a clear possibility), it seems to me that by tying off, I'm likely injuring myself just as badly, with the added bonus of now dragging the lift down on top of myself.

So, second, I'm in the lift. Some jerk not paying attention on his forklift(example) plows into the side of my raised lift, and over it goes. Given the weight balance of a raised scissor lift, I expect that it will start fairly slowly, and accelerate quickly as it falls. A person not tethered to the lift may(or may not) have a chance to jump clear as the lift falls, to a potentially safe place. If your lanyard connects you to the lift, you're riding that sucker down, for better or for worse.

At this point, I still don't tie myself off to the scissor lift. I always wear a harness on the lift, and when possible, I tie myself off to something secure overhead. I've also sunk anchors into concrete walls and tied off to eye bolts, although I'm a little more dubious of this. However, if I'm going to be working in the middle of an open space, with nothing sturdy overhead(just a flimsy basket tray or something), I remove the lanyard from my harness, and don't tie off to anything.

For obvious reasons, my boss and the safety guys around our site don't really like this. I've explained multiple times my concerns, and I've said flat-out that if they require me to tie off to the lift, I refuse to operate it, as it doesn't seem safe. To this point, no one has outright stopped me, but it's definitely become a point of contention.

We've got a job coming up that will require a lot of scissor lift operation. I'm attempting to sort out some of the safety concerns that I and others have prior to beginning, so if anyone has some information on something I've overlooked, or a thought to add, please share.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If its a normal slab lift on concrete you don't need a harness. Off road yes bucket truck yes.


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## spook (Oct 20, 2011)

When I did the fall arrest course I was told that if you fall and are stuck in your harness for more then 15 min there's a good chance your done for anyways because unless you got a good harness it will cut off circulation. The real reason they don't want you to tie off to something other then the lift is if you forget to unhook and start to go down you can be stuck hanging there. There was a young journeyman I Knew that ended up suffocating to death when his hoody and laynard got hung up in some structural steel a couple years ago.


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

spook said:


> When I did the fall arrest course I was told that if you fall and are stuck in your harness for more then 15 min there's a good chance your done for anyways because unless you got a good harness it will cut off circulation. The real reason they don't want you to tie off to something other then the lift is if you forget to unhook and start to go down you can be stuck hanging there. There was a young journeyman I Knew that ended up suffocating to death when his hoody and laynard got hung up in some structural steel a couple years ago.


I haven't taken the fall arrest course, but I've heard something like that before as well. I can't say I'm overly impressed with the state of our harnesses and lanyards, either. I can't remember now how often they tell you to replace them, but I guarantee they're older than that, and in rough condition to boot - although not clearly defective.

Good point regarding the tie-off to structural steel, too. I can't say that I've ever done that, but I imagine it's a fairly common problem. Makes a good case study for why not to tie off to structure. Does anyone tie off to their scissor lift? I couldn't tell you if it's in the provincial jobsite safety rules, but the site we contract to does require it, at least on paper. So do the lift manufacturers, according to their directions.

Do you guys tie off to your scissor lifts?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Spook, that's suspension trauma. The blood pools in your legs, your blood-pressure drops down to nothing.

I don't have it in from of me, but am 98.6% sure that per OSHA no tie-off is required for scissor lifts, only boom lifts.

-John


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Suspension trauma straps are a good idea if you are working by yourself and wearing fall protection


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

spook said:


> When I did the fall arrest course I was told that if you fall and are stuck in your harness for more then 15 min there's a good chance your done for anyways because unless you got a good harness it will cut off circulation. The real reason they don't want you to tie off to something other then the lift is if you forget to unhook and start to go down you can be stuck hanging there. There was a young journeyman I Knew that ended up suffocating to death when his hoody and lanyard got hung up in some structural steel a couple years ago.


I believe you have the 15 minute statement backwards, if in harness blood stops flowing to the legs, and you have 15 minutes before it becomes critical to the legs and thus no circulation.



> Suspension trauma straps are a good idea if you are working by yourself and wearing fall protection.


Suspension straps are additional straps that one uses to puts ones legs into after suspension to cause blood to flow back to the legs, similar to working the legs on a treadmill in Space.

Look for suspension straps to be built-into future lanyards. At twenty dollars
its a good personal PPE device to add to one's lanyard.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

CanadianBrad said:


> Hey, everyone, I've got a couple questions arising from the use of scissor lifts. I took a course in scissor lift operation, and the guy teaching the course was explaining the necessity of fall arrest harnesses/lanyards. He also pointed out that every scissor lift has a set of rings on it, meant for workers on the platform to tie off to.
> 
> So I checked out our little Skyjack at the shop, and sure enough, it has two of these tie-off rings. But it's a small lift, small enough to be driven through a standard man door without dropping the side rails. Based on the width(~30"), I'm not sure these tie-off rings are doing me any favours.
> 
> ...


All your points are valid. but a study was done buy the governing officials and they are correct.

I know of 2 fatalities. one a friend, one an acquaintance.

one got squeezed in a door way on a sizer lift, the harness seems to have impeded his movement. Osha investigated.......

The other, in a bucket truck fall over- the truck- he was tied off as well.

harnesses help and they hinder. many have been saved by them and several have died due them. Kinda like the seat belt in an auto.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Lifts don't require fall protection, they require motion limiters to prevent too much leaning and going over the side.

I'm sure they taught you a lot of things about lift safety, and one of the major things they taught you is to have the proper lift for the proper job. You should never have a lift flip on you. It'll happen outdoors in the mud and you run over some plywood covering a hole, but you have to be aware of that.

They aren't cars, you should be driving them carefully and safely. I spend a lot of time on lifts, and there are just so many dangers:

1) sprinkler heads.
2) crushing your hand when lifting on something unexpected... keep your hands off the safety railings.
3) gas lines, pipes, FANS! Wouldn't want a hi-speed commercial fan giving me a whack, and I'm sure anyone who has spent time on a lift gets nervous around them.
4) forklifts, but you don't have control over them, unless you set up barricades, which I do.
5) ESCAPE PLAN! Check occupational health and safety handbook. You must have an escape plan. If you forget your phone, or if you're working alone, and you lose it over the side, you really want to be hanging there till monday before someone finds you dead? Don't work alone.
6) Equipment, shelving, customer's stuff. It's worth going slow.

I've seen guys hotrodding on them, and they look like idiots, and suprisingly, not always young guys.

Other guys, wearing reflective vests, barricading, having a spotter, hardhats, safety glasses, they look professional.

If you're up on your lift, 50 feet up, and someone comes along and switches control from the platform to the lift, do you know how to get down manually?


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

But yes, motion limiters, not really fall protection.

I have one of those retractable lanyards that is both fall protection (it has one of those plastic pressure-popping thingies) as well as a motion limiter (like wearing a seatbelt).


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Scissor lifts are considered scaffold and therefore do not require tie-off as far as OSHA is concerned. (Unless something has changed recently).


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## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Frasbee said:


> Scissor lifts are considered scaffold and therefore do not require tie-off as far as OSHA is concerned. (Unless something has changed recently).


Nope, just did OSHA 30 this past week as a refresher, and it's still not required. It must have railings and beeping motion alarms, etc. etc. but no, no tie off.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Nope, just did OSHA 30 this past week as a refresher, and it's still not required. It must have railings and beeping motion alarms, etc. etc. but no, no tie off.


Unless it's off slab or has off road tires. I believe


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## East Coast Paul (Sep 30, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Lifts don't require fall protection, they require motion limiters to prevent too much leaning and going over the side.
> 
> I'm sure they taught you a lot of things about lift safety, and one of the major things they taught you is to have the proper lift for the proper job. You should never have a lift flip on you. It'll happen outdoors in the mud and you run over some plywood covering a hole, but you have to be aware of that.
> 
> ...


jman i worked with had this happen to him a few years before i met him, hit him on the elbow when he thought he was far enough away and spent a few hours in the hospital getting stitches. lucky that was all i think.


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

Big John said:


> Spook, that's suspension trauma. The blood pools in your legs, your blood-pressure drops down to nothing.
> 
> I don't have it in from of me, but am 98.6% sure that per OSHA no tie-off is required for scissor lifts, only boom lifts.
> 
> -John


this is my understanding also


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

They make scissor lifts with tie-off points, so it'd be hard to explain, if someone gets hurt, why they weren't being used.

I don't have my handbook on me, but I think any kind of driveable lift requires being tied off, in Canada perhaps. Not sure either way, but it's there, and most companies require it around here, regardless of what ohsa says.


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

I've used a bunch of them and was never asked to have a harness, not sure what the rule is (I'm untrained :whistling2

As for harnesses themselves, I've had a few people tell me no one cares if it's tied off as long as you're wearing it. But given the positions and heights we have to work with sometimes, if there's something to tie off to, I do it every time. Good point on the concern over the lift tipping over though, those small ones strike me as terribly lightweight.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> Unless it's off slab or has off road tires. I believe


:no:

Not by OSHA.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Osha fined a worker here , 'manlift on concrete no saftey harness'

and other than an on line resource _(which many are not privey to, or eshew)_ there are no local Osha realted courses

bit of a Guaqmire imho......~CS~


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Big John said:


> Spook, that's suspension trauma. The blood pools in your legs, your blood-pressure drops down to nothing.
> 
> I don't have it in from of me, but am 98.6% sure that per OSHA no tie-off is required for scissor lifts, only boom lifts.
> 
> -John


....we are required to be 100% tied off regardless of lift type, I'd have to see that OSHA standard to believe it. Note, when you are on any lift and even put your foot up on the toe rail, that requires 100% tie off or it is an OSHA violation


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> ....we are required to be 100% tied off regardless of lift type, I'd have to see that OSHA standard to believe it. Note, when you are on any lift and even put your foot up on the toe rail, that requires 100% tie off or it is an OSHA violation


Fedearal OSHA treats sissor lifts as staging and just like staging you do not need to be tied off if there are full rails. 

I do agree with you that if you want to climb the rails tie off is needed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Osha fined a worker here , 'manlift on concrete no saftey harness'
> 
> and other than an on line resource _(which many are not privey to, or eshew)_ there are no local Osha realted courses
> 
> bit of a Guaqmire imho......~CS~


Of course they could fight the judgment and win, it happens often.


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## Boomer (Oct 19, 2011)

I've had those scenarios run through my grape from time to time as well...falling while tied off to lift and having it tip on top of me. But, when you think about it, you'd be falling straight down the side of the lift. The weight transfer would be totally vertical, limiting the possibility of the lift to be pulled down side-ways. 

Good post though, even though I can't find the OSHA regulation that says you have to be tied off on the lift, we are told it is required any time you step foot on the lift.:huh:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Certainly some areas, bussnesses etc require tie off but fed OSHA does not. 

The following is from OSHA




> In regards to your specific question, when working from an elevated scissors lift (ANSI A92.6 series), a worker need only be protected from falling by a properly designed and maintained guardrail system. However, if the guardrail system is less than adequate, or the worker leaves the safety of the work platform, an additional fall protection device would be required. The general scaffolding fall protection provision found in 1926.451(g)(1)(vii) reads in part, "[f]or all scaffolds not otherwise specified in this section, each employee shall be protected by the use of personal fall arrest systems or guardrails systems."


http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22611


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

While the OSHA information is pretty handy, it doesn't apply here(Canadian). Also, regardless of what the Canada- or Alberta-wide safety protocols are(and I couldn't tell you what they are off the top of my head), it is a rule for the site. That being said, while a safety guy may nag you about it from time to time, they don't actually _do_ anything about it. Same goes for my boss.

However, I'm interested to hear if you guys use lanyards while on these things, and if you actually tie off to them.


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## angryceltic (Feb 21, 2012)

CanadianBrad said:


> While the OSHA information is pretty handy, it doesn't apply here(Canadian). Also, regardless of what the Canada- or Alberta-wide safety protocols are(and I couldn't tell you what they are off the top of my head), it is a rule for the site. That being said, while a safety guy may nag you about it from time to time, they don't actually do anything about it. Same goes for my boss.
> 
> However, I'm interested to hear if you guys use lanyards while on these things, and if you actually tie off to them.


Manufacture states that if there is a tie off point it is to be used. This covers their liability. The tie off is fall prevention to where it's a leash to keep u in the bucket/ basket. Does not matter the style of lift. 

The gc on this site has a mandatory tie off rule on anything over six feet. On the staging for the masons there is fall arrest protection as well. My employer has the same rules. Anything over 6 feet.


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## Dhfisher (May 6, 2011)

Sometimes things that OSHA requires makes no sense, the plant I worked at required a tie off above 6ft. The " monkey tail" was 10ft long, the idea is that the tail consists of material pleated together with thread that in case of a fall rips out and slows down the speed of the fall before reaching the end of the tail, what good is the tie off if it's longer than the fall and the rip stop is not even into play yet? We get back to the question of liability at this point, if we are using the required equipment the liability falls not in our lap, the Co. Is clear, OSHA is happy, all Edicts have been followed, common sense is lacking, but that's ok, all edicts have been followed. It is up to us to use common sense to protect ourselves also, not just our employer. I will absolutely not do anything that would jeopardize my well being, although I dislike the safety harness if I am off the ground at a height I will wear it, same thing goes for other safety apparatus if common sense tells me to wear it I shall. Too often we bring on these regulations by not using common sense, then big bro. Steps in and is willing to protect us from ourselves. As Pogo said " I have met the enemy, he is us." well this is the end of my " rant" Keep Safe.


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## acebradley (Mar 1, 2012)

My understanding was always that if the manufacturer of the lift requires it (tie-off) in the operating manual, then it is required by OSHA. OSHA requires every person that uses the equipment to read the manual, be trained, and be familiar with the operating instructions contain therein.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dhfisher said:


> Sometimes things that OSHA requires makes no sense, the plant I worked at required a tie off above 6ft. The " monkey tail" was 10ft long, the idea is that the tail consists of material pleated together with thread that in case of a fall rips out and slows down the speed of the fall before reaching the end of the tail, what good is the tie off if it's longer than the fall and the rip stop is not even into play yet? We get back to the question of liability at this point, if we are using the required equipment the liability falls not in our lap, the Co. Is clear, OSHA is happy, all Edicts have been followed, common sense is lacking, but that's ok, all edicts have been followed. It is up to us to use common sense to protect ourselves also, not just our employer. I will absolutely not do anything that would jeopardize my well being, although I dislike the safety harness if I am off the ground at a height I will wear it, same thing goes for other safety apparatus if common sense tells me to wear it I shall. Too often we bring on these regulations by not using common sense, then big bro. Steps in and is willing to protect us from ourselves. As Pogo said " I have met the enemy, he is us." well this is the end of my " rant" Keep Safe.


Actually using too long a lanyard is a violation in it self.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

angryceltic said:


> Manufacture states that if there is a tie off point it is to be used. This covers their liability. The tie off is fall prevention to where it's a leash to keep u in the bucket/ basket. Does not matter the style of lift.
> 
> .


Again, this is not fed OSHA policy, you certainly may have been told that but what I posted above is a official fed OSHA interpretation 

It does in fact matter what kind of lift, scissor lifts are mobile scaffolds.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Dhfisher said:


> Sometimes things that OSHA requires makes no sense, the plant I worked at required a tie off above 6ft. The " monkey tail" was 10ft long, the idea is that the tail consists of material pleated together with thread that in case of a fall rips out and slows down the speed of the fall before reaching the end of the tail, what good is the tie off if it's longer than the fall and the rip stop is not even into play yet?....


 The problem there isn't OSHA, it's just another case of a half-assed safety department.

This is an OSHA interpretation that answers a lot of the common questions about work from ladders, and fall arrest when working at low heights. 

Long story short: OSHA doesn't require fall protection on portable ladders, and if fall protection is required, but you can still hit the ground while wearing it, it is definitely an OSHA violation. 

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

We often complain that there is no way to get official NEC interpretations but with OSHA it is usally as easy as a quick search of their site.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

How awesome would it be if the NFPA started giving official interpretations? It makes a hell of a lot of sense: What good is a rule nobody understands?

-John


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

We have OSHA into our GE facility every year for two weeks to do safety inspections. "DIRECTLY" asked an OSHA official if tie off is required in scissor lifts and been told NO. As long as there is railing and toe lip there is no OSHA requirement to tie off. If you step on the rails then tie-off is required. Which is great because some of the safety requirements we have at this facility are crazy. Have you ever read the OSHA requirement for ladder safety? By their standards you can't even go up the ladder to tie off. 3 points of contact at all times, no carrying tools, and when and if you get to the top of the ladder you have to work with one hand to maintain 3 points of contact!!


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## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

We also are required to be 100% tied off on scizzor lifts over 6 ft.
Their argument was the manufacturers supplied the lifts with attachment loops, therefore, they were designed to be used per manufacturer's suggested operating procedures.
Sounds like a bunch of bull***t to me, just another way to point the finger at someone else.
My question is why the heck are the point of attachment so low? They aren't this way on a boom lift. When you turn around the lanyard wraps around your ankles, doesnt seem too safe to me.

But really, what do they care, they aren't going to be wearing them.
Kind of like our congress and the rules they force upon us that don't apply to them.


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## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

TimChaput69 said:


> We have OSHA into our GE facility every year for two weeks to do safety inspections. "DIRECTLY" asked an OSHA official if tie off is required in scissor lifts and been told NO. As long as there is railing and toe lip there is no OSHA requirement to tie off. If you step on the rails then tie-off is required. Which is great because some of the safety requirements we have at this facility are crazy. Have you ever read the OSHA requirement for ladder safety? By their standards you can't even go up the ladder to tie off. 3 points of contact at all times, no carrying tools, and when and if you get to the top of the ladder you have to work with one hand to maintain 3 points of contact!!


That three point contact is a joke.
1. How many men does it take to mount one stick of emt on a 8-10 ft flat ceiling with 1 hole straps.
(Takes 2 men to mount one 1900 box ?)
2. Can you even get that many ladders that close together? 
3. Who is going to pay the added cost for this insanity?
Certainly not the Bats***t crazy rule makers.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MaxFuse said:


> That three point contact is a joke....


Honestly, I think so, too. And I have never seen the OSHA reg that actually requires it.

-John


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Dhfisher;[URL="tel:699640" said:


> 699640[/URL]]Sometimes things that OSHA requires makes no sense, the plant I worked at required a tie off above 6ft. The " monkey tail" was 10ft long, the idea is that the tail consists of material pleated together with thread that in case of a fall rips out and slows down the speed of the fall before reaching the end of the tail, what good is the tie off if it's longer than the fall and the rip stop is not even into play yet? We get back to the question of liability at this point, if we are using the required equipment the liability falls not in our lap, the Co. Is clear, OSHA is happy, all Edicts have been followed, common sense is lacking, but that's ok, all edicts have been followed. It is up to us to use common sense to protect ourselves also, not just our employer. I will absolutely not do anything that would jeopardize my well being, although I dislike the safety harness if I am off the ground at a height I will wear it, same thing goes for other safety apparatus if common sense tells me to wear it I shall. Too often we bring on these regulations by not using common sense, then big bro. Steps in and is willing to protect us from ourselves. As Pogo said " I have met the enemy, he is us." well this is the end of my " rant" Keep Safe.


That's where you would use a yo-yo. You need to use common sense if your fall arrest device won't stop you before you hit the ground, then you need to use other methods, Remember you have fall restraint and fall arrest systems.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Not on scissor lifts. When we are in a snorkel lift we always tie off.
If I'm going to be leaning over the handrail I will put on a harness and tie off. I really think I would rather take my chances of the lift toppling over on me vs a free fall. I'm sure it could possibly happen, but were probably talking 1 in a million chance.
I bet your lift tie off point is 100xs better then the anchors your putting in the concrete celling to tie off to.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Dhfisher said:


> Sometimes things that OSHA requires makes no sense, the plant I worked at required a tie off above 6ft. The " monkey tail" was 10ft long, the idea is that the tail consists of material pleated together with thread that in case of a fall rips out and slows down the speed of the fall before reaching the end of the tail, what good is the tie off if it's longer than the fall and the rip stop is not even into play yet? We get back to the question of liability at this point, if we are using the required equipment the liability falls not in our lap, the Co. Is clear, OSHA is happy, all Edicts have been followed, common sense is lacking, but that's ok, all edicts have been followed. It is up to us to use common sense to protect ourselves also, not just our employer. I will absolutely not do anything that would jeopardize my well being, although I dislike the safety harness if I am off the ground at a height I will wear it, same thing goes for other safety apparatus if common sense tells me to wear it I shall. Too often we bring on these regulations by not using common sense, then big bro. Steps in and is willing to protect us from ourselves. As Pogo said " I have met the enemy, he is us." well this is the end of my " rant" Keep Safe.


 You use a yo-yo then, And the yo-yo does not hook to a lanyard, It hooks directly to the ring on your harness.:thumbsup:


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