# kicked 90



## Mptoth380 (Oct 9, 2011)

Today my work partner and I found ourselves at a loss. We are running 3-1/2" emt and have to kick 4 90s to all reach the same plane on a wall to enter two separate mdp's. Our foreman wants us to get the least amount of spacing between two conduits entering the mdps that we could possibly get as space is limited and about 15 other pipes have to enter the same mdps, all of various sizes. Now for the life of me I could not remember the way to figure out how to perfectly match the conduits and line up the kicks since the kicks will get bigger for each pipe. another jman mentioned that as long as we know the angle of the kick then we would only need to increase the hypotenuse of the kick to accomidate for a uniform look along the 4 separate kicks. Does anyone know the formula to figure this out? Kick angle is 60degrees and our first kick was 29-1/4" with the kick mark at 24" from back of 90. Ill attach a drawring in a moment.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Never mind, I reread it.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Look here: http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/ParallelKicks.htm

It has be awhile but I think if you have less than 45 deg of kick then you spacing cannot be the same before the kick as after the kick (on the downward side of the 90's).

Also, pay attention to what the other guy said about having more than 360 degrees of bend without a pull point.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

You must know the angle and your center spacing on the horizontal piece and your center spacing on your vertical piece. They will be different.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Correction... The cosecant of 60 degrees is 1.155. So if you want to use 60 degree kicks, the distance between holes in your MDP needs to be 1.155 x distance between pipe centers.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I think the easier way to do it, is to make the kicks the same angle and don't worry about where the center of the kick is. Your way makes the kicks sharper the farther you get from the first one.

For instance, if you wanted all kicks to be 30 degrees, it's just like bending offsets, (inches of kick you want x 2). Done deal, no algebra required.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Cow said:


> I think the easier way to do it, is to make the kicks the same angle and don't worry about where the center of the kick is. Your way makes the kicks sharper the farther you get from the first one.
> 
> For instance, if you wanted all kicks to be 30 degrees, it's just like bending offsets, (inches of kick you want x 2). Done deal, no algebra required.


If you're trying to conserve space on the MDP top, 30's make alot of distance between openings. Like you said, twice the center-to-center spacing of the pipe. 60 degrees makes the hole spacing on the MDP almost equal to the spacing of the pipes before the kick.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Cow said:


> I think the easier way to do it, is to make the kicks the same angle and don't worry about where the center of the kick is. Your way makes the kicks sharper the farther you get from the first one.
> 
> For instance, if you wanted all kicks to be 30 degrees, it's just like bending offsets, (inches of kick you want x 2). Done deal, no algebra required.


Agreed . Maintaining the same kick angle will not only look better but is a lot easier to reproduce three other times . All you need to adjust is your kick placement . It's easier than it sounds . You'll get it .


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

drumnut08 said:


> Agreed . Maintaining the same kick angle will not only look better but is a lot easier to reproduce three other times . All you need to adjust is your kick placement . It's easier than it sounds . You'll get it .


Agreed as well.. changing bend angles ends up looking weird they will appear bunched up in the middle and if not done perfect it will really look bad


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

How close can you actually strap two 3.5" conduits on a strut, C-to-C? 4.5"?

Whatever the center distance the first pipe is from the center of the hole it lands in, you multiply that by the cosecant of the kick angle. So if the first pipe is 24" off the wall, and you use a 60 degree kick, then the distance from the center of the 90 to the center of the kick will be 24 x CSC(60) = ~27.75". If the pipe spacing on the rack is 4.5" C-to-C, then the next pipe will be 27.75 + [4.5 x CSC(60)] = ~33", and so on.

The kick angle won't change, just the distance the kicks need to be made at from the 90.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Aim low (not aim high like the air force) cut each piece long and go to town with the couplings. It's, what, 3-1/2 emt? factory 90's are already acceptable in that size. Why not put a gutter and some connectors too? But of course I haven't seen it and there's probably something obvious ive overlooked.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

The attached file is pretty straightforward. 
I found it somewhere on the internet awhile back but have never tried it.


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## haltonelectrician (May 27, 2011)

Sorry to dig up an old thread .. but when using this method

http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/ParallelKicks.htm



> Note: You may first want to make a sample bend, to determine the distance from the start mark on the bender to the center of the bend for the angle of kick that you have selected.
> 
> Measure 20" from the back of the 90° bend. Subtract 1/2 the diameter of the conduit. In this case, 1/2" conduit is about 3/4" in diameter, so subtract 3/8". Now subtract a second amount equal to the distance from the center of the bend to your start mark.
> 
> Place the start mark of your bender on this new mark on the conduit, and make a 10" kick. In theory, this should be exactly 30°. I have found from experience, that the bends will be more consistent if they are bent to the distance, rather that the angle. The angles being a little off looks better that the distance between bends being off.


I am having trouble finding the center on the conduit when working with 4" pipe

Is there any mathematical way to figure out where the center of the bend is if I know the radius of the bending shoe?

I have also tried using this method but when using 15* bends on 4" conduit, its not possible to accurately find the center of the bend!

http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/center_of_bend.htm


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

mattwright999 said:


> Sorry to dig up an old thread .. but when using this method http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/ParallelKicks.htm I am having trouble finding the center on the conduit when working with 4" pipe Is there any mathematical way to figure out where the center of the bend is if I know the radius of the bending shoe? I have also tried using this method but when using 15* bends on 4" conduit, its not possible to accurately find the center of the bend! http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/center_of_bend.htm


Bend a scrap piece and find the center of bend using some straight edges just like anything else


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## haltonelectrician (May 27, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Bend a scrap piece and find the center of bend using some straight edges just like anything else


Doesn't work with 4" conduit, can't get an accurate line..


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

mattwright999 said:


> Doesn't work with 4" conduit, can't get an accurate line..


I disagree, mostly because I've done it.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

bill39 said:


> Look here: http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/ParallelKicks.htm
> 
> It has be awhile but I think if you have less than 45 deg of kick then you spacing cannot be the same before the kick as after the kick (on the downward side of the 90's).
> 
> Also, pay attention to what the other guy said about having more than 360 degrees of bend without a pull point.


who said that?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

papaotis said:


> who said that?


I think he's confused. Your center to center spacing cannot be the same on both sides of the 90 on parallel kicks. The high side grows in relation to the multiplier of the angle used


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

sorry if this is a repost, but i have a some experience on this. if you are trying to keep spacing you have to go on the center of the bend. it comes from the center of the radius. think about it. otherwise the pipes will hit each other if you use the same degree.


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## James Allen Whitley (Sep 7, 2021)

haltonelectrician said:


> Doesn't work with 4" conduit, can't get an accurate line..


You can use a straight edge but you really have to have a good eye for that. You can also measure the o.d. Center will be have of that measurement


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