# contractor provided phone\tools



## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

I was wondering if any other locals have clauses in their inside wiring contract dealing with use of personal phones or other equipment like laptops. i had a shop steward tell me i had to use my own smartphone for their business. Emails texts calls. they also asked if i had a laptop to do the reports on. our contract says the only thing i am suppose to provide are the basic hand tools on the list. What do other members of the brotherhood think of this?


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

I'm not union but that sounds shady. I apologize if this is a union only thread.


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## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

No apologies sparky....your input is welcome. i have worked both union and non union. The non union contractors set us up with a cell phone day one. one feller even paid me 25cents a mile for the 50 min commute to the farm. i was wondering if other licals had language in their contracts regarding this issue.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

That's lame, that's a hint you are working for a ****ty contractor.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

This is all spelled out in your contract, you should look into this.

But I can't imagine you are suppose to supply any of the items you noted..


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

If they want you to have a cell phone, THEY can supply you one.
If you need a laptop, THEY can supply that as well.
They can, however, make you turn yours off while working. Breaks and lunch excepted.
I go off like a rocket when cubs use them while on my time. It's theft, pure and simple, and drives my c r a z y.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

I stick by my shady comment and up it by saying either I coinveiniently would not have a phone or laptop, let them supply them or (if your comfortable with it) they can provide $$$ for cell phone/broadband usage on company time but if they are shady they would probably balk at your bill.
Honestly my stuff would stay home or in a vehicle after all its mine not theirs.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's not the contractor who is shady, they are just doing what contractors do. It's the shop steward that you gotta watch out for. WTF is he telling you to use your personal phone and computer? He's the one who is supposed to be fighting that.


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## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

Yes the shop steward has special interest in the company because he is a company man...and being groomed to be the vp....so good on him.... it just doesn't sit well with me to know I have a contract which doesnt mean anything because people dont follow the rules esp the shop steward who is supposedly on my side.... I was replacing a 480 breaker in a m DP the other day and asked him to come along since our contract states that anything over 400 volts needs two journeyman. He said he would come along to assist but personally he would just do it himself. Then you get guys who go out and buy their own tools to have their own 18 v cutoff saw..etc. The shop steward has always nagged me about getting my CDL.. asking me every other day if I'd taken the test. Now I know why no one wants to work at this shop and doesn't stay there for a long time. Kinda seems wormy to me.......what is a guy to do? I haven't found the perfect job yet. It doesn't exist.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

I would talk to the B.A., but be carefull, in close knit areas, everyone knows everyone. It does NOT make it right, just sayin..............


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

aktrapper said:


> ....our contract says the only thing i am suppose to provide are the basic hand tools on the list. What do other members of the brotherhood think of this?


Yes you are required and RESTRICTED to the tool list. You cannot bring your own tools to the job outside the list.

Now - we all do that - extra wrenches and sockets - specialty tools etc. 

However if you wander into the area of speed tools - yankee screwdrivers - personal screwguns and technology ( computers, surveying tools, meggers meters etc. ) that all has to come from the contractor.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons for doing so...but the honest truth is we are supposed to be on an even field. If one guy brings in his own drills then he makes himself less likely to be laid off. So either we end up supplying the contractor with all the tools to do the job and some of the material - or we force the issue the other way and have the contractor provide those things.

Now as far as your steward is concerned - you need to have a quiet conversation with an agent.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Sparky J said:


> I'm not union but that sounds shady. I apologize if this is a union only thread.


No apologies needed - you don't need to be union to know that is shady. :thumbsup:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Whats your position at the company? Are you moving into management? I could maybe see it if your position was changing. As in moving from the field to management. Assuming there is a reasonable pay increase associated with it. Union or not management has a different set of tools and responsibilities. A cell phone and lap top in that case are a reasonable expectation.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Whats your position at the company? Are you moving into management? I could maybe see it if your position was changing. As in moving from the field to management. Assuming there is a reasonable pay increase associated with it. Union or not management has a different set of tools and responsibilities. A cell phone and lap top in that case are a reasonable expectation.


Nope. Any union shop provides that for supervision or the office.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> Yes you are required and RESTRICTED to the tool list. You cannot bring your own tools to the job outside the list.


 That's not true. In many locals the tool list is a minimum and it doesn't restrict members from bringing in hand tools that aren't on the list.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Nope. Any union shop provides that for supervision or the office.


Management positions usually involve contracts, those contracts would supersede the employees contract with the union by nature. i'm not referring to foreman or general foreman but rather white collar executive level project management. 
The union is still the greatest I'm not looking for a debate. Grounds up! Use a rotosplit!:thumbsup:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

aktrapper said:


> I was wondering if any other locals have clauses in their inside wiring contract dealing with use of personal phones or other equipment like laptops. i had a shop steward tell me i had to use my own smartphone for their business. Emails texts calls. they also asked if i had a laptop to do the reports on. our contract says the only thing i am suppose to provide are the basic hand tools on the list. What do other members of the brotherhood think of this?


Tell the "steward" to point out that clause in the agreement


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

aktrapper said:


> Yes the shop steward has special interest in the company because he is a company man...and being groomed to be the vp....so good on him.... it just doesn't sit well with me to know I have a contract which doesnt mean anything because people dont follow the rules esp the shop steward who is supposedly on my side.... I was replacing a 480 breaker in a m DP the other day and asked him to come along since our contract states that anything over 400 volts needs two journeyman. He said he would come along to assist but personally he would just do it himself. Then you get guys who go out and buy their own tools to have their own 18 v cutoff saw..etc. The shop steward has always nagged me about getting my CDL.. asking me every other day if I'd taken the test. Now I know why no one wants to work at this shop and doesn't stay there for a long time. Kinda seems wormy to me.......what is a guy to do? I haven't found the perfect job yet. It doesn't exist.


Did the hall deem him as the steward? Or was it the company?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Goldagain said:


> Whats your position at the company? Are you moving into management? I could maybe see it if your position was changing. As in moving from the field to management. Assuming there is a reasonable pay increase associated with it. Union or not management has a different set of tools and responsibilities. A cell phone and lap top in that case are a reasonable expectation.


What difference would it make?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

HackWork said:


> That's not true. In many locals the tool list is a minimum and it doesn't restrict members from bringing in hand tools that aren't on the list.


Were you organized?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

My company provides both laptop and smartphone. I am expected to answer the phone promptly and use the computer for work orders.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

sparky970 said:


> What difference would it make?





Goldagain said:


> Management positions usually involve contracts, those contracts would supersede the employees contract with the union by nature. i'm not referring to foreman or general foreman but rather white collar executive level project management.
> The union is still the greatest I'm not looking for a debate. Grounds up! Use a rotosplit!:thumbsup:


Iono


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well were non union the field lead men not just supervisors get a cell phone and the company gives us glue sniffers in the field a outdoor tablet in the field which we take home .
To order material do daily reports email all the contract drawings specs everything thats in our office is out in the field . 

I can do it all from the dirt its a time saver today .

Its the companys job to supply you with a phone and a computer if its needed and they want that the only thing electricians must have is hand tools .

Use there truck there insurance its there bag of tricks use there credit card for odd stuff . :laughing:


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## Acadian9 (Jun 6, 2009)

My dad drives a company service van and the company gave him a phone and pays for it. I am on a job site and use my own phone for the odd work-related call.


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

sparky970 said:


> Were you organized?


What does that have to do with anything?


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

That 'steward' sound like a friggin' worm to me.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I'll preempt this with I am not union either, but I am a business owner.

It is the responsibility of the business to provide all things related to doing business for the employees. Now there are certain tools related to the trade that the employee does provide (We pretty much us a list similar to the union, just basic hand tools), but cell phones, tablets, computers, etc....That should be all shop supplied.

I would think that union or not, every call that you make from your phone, every minute you spend on your own laptop, you should be billing them extra for. It falls into the same idea as transporting materials in a personal vehicle, the shop reimburses you.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

J.Dunner said:


> What does that have to do with anything?


Folks who do not go through a full apprenticeship tend to be less we and more I. They have a rougher time of things since they don't get how offensive they can be ( totally not on purpose ) and they catch extra grief because of it.

As an example - the tool list is not a minimum list - it is THE list. By the CBA you carry those tools and no others. Folks who go through a full apprenticeship understand the reasoning behind it ( five years of school ) more clearly than those who don't.

Do we all follow the tool list - of course not. I carry extra tools - many of tend to, but there are some that even a tool whore such as myself won't carry ( unless I want to see how far someone can throw one of my speed wrenches  ).

Hackysack clearly does not understand the point of the tool list - so either he is not union or never served a complete apprenticeship ( or was so poorly apprenticed that he never got an opportunity to learn the whys of things ).

I try to help those unfortunates out when I can - usually they are well meaning and hard working folks who can get into trouble pretty quickly until they get better educated.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

eejack said:


> Hackysack clearly does not understand the point of the tool list - so either he is not union or never served a complete apprenticeship ( or was so poorly apprenticed that he never got an opportunity to learn the whys of things


I didn't read the thread but I'm assuming by your personal attack that he said something you couldn't debate so you took your typical ghetto approach and started attacking his credibility. Your like the resident IBEW mouthpiece here right? Representing the BROTHERHOOD?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> I didn't read the thread but I'm assuming by your personal attack that he said something you couldn't debate so you took your typical ghetto approach and started attacking his credibility. Your like the resident IBEW mouthpiece here right? Representing the BROTHERHOOD?


It was not a personal attack goldy - since you obviously did not read the thread but once again decide to spew crap out your face.

Go read the thread and if you need a hand with the big words, find an adult to help you.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

eejack said:


> It was not a personal attack goldy - since you obviously did not read the thread but once again decide to spew crap out your face.
> 
> Go read the thread and if you need a hand with the big words, find an adult to help you.


Questioning his integrity isn't a personal attack? 

Spew crap out of my face? Big words? Find an adult? 

What part of your last post wasnt an attack eejack?

Your last two post were so aggressively personal that theres really only one way this thread can go from there.

Your a class act eejack.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Questioning his integrity isn't a personal attack?
> 
> Spew crap out of my face? Big words? Find an adult?
> 
> ...


I was not questioning his integrity goldy. He made a statement that was incorrect but understandably so - and it is obvious where his mistaken answer came from.

As far as my post directed at you - absolutely a pointed attack on a known lying bag of crap troll. You come into thread after thread, not contributing anything of substance and start arguments.

"I didn't read the thread but blah blah blah".

If you were not so sad you would be comical.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

eejack said:


> I was not questioning his integrity goldy. He made a statement that was incorrect but understandably so - and it is obvious where his mistaken answer came from.
> 
> As far as my post directed at you - absolutely a pointed attack on a known lying bag of crap troll. You come into thread after thread, not contributing anything of substance and start arguments.
> 
> ...


Troll has become the ambiguos goto defense for anyone that can't win a debate. So .. you calling me a troll says more about you then me but calling me a liar I take offense too. Why don't you post one of those lies. Just copy the link down here and prove your statement.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)




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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

Back on track, Eejack, if you carry tools that are not on the tool list, your coworkers would be angry with you? How Come? That just seems strange to me, but I've never been a part of the IBEW. You get a tool list that you must supply, then everything else is supplied by your employer? Why would your co workers care if you carry extra tools?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rochsolid said:


> Back on track, Eejack, if you carry tools that are not on the tool list, your coworkers would be angry with you? How Come? That just seems strange to me, but I've never been a part of the IBEW. You get a tool list that you must supply, then everything else is supplied by your employer? Why would your co workers care if you carry extra tools?


It is viewed by them as an unfair advantage :blink:


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

The theory in having a minimum and maximum tool list ("no more, no less" -- as some would say) is that it provides a level playing field. For example, some people own things like drill presses, mig welders, air compressors, precision electronic testing equipment and whatnot. Others have stuff like pickups, little flatbed trailers, personal watercraft. Almost everyone has or should have a personal battery-powered drill at home. 

Now from an employer standpoint, all else being equal, you would want reduce your costs as much as possible. Why rent or buy a pickup to haul materiel if you have a worker willing to use his own pickup? Why buy/rent a hipot tester or power quality meter or tugger if an employee has one and is willing to bring it?

Why keep an employee on the payroll if he brings a dewalt drill, while the other guy brings two dewalts and even has a pat750 and complete set of dies for it? 

Why would an employee dare spend money on his children, bringing them to school in a new car while another employee is willing to make capital investments into the companies future buy reinvesting his paycheck into purchasing assets for an employer.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Fittters here have to show up with channelock pliers and 6 foot stick rule.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

HackWork said:


> It's not the contractor who is shady, they are just doing what contractors do. It's the shop steward that you gotta watch out for. WTF is he telling you to use your personal phone and computer? He's the one who is supposed to be fighting that.


I agree with Hack, OMG


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well union or non union its the company your work for if there low budget scum then thats what happens. No phone nothing to offer you .

If there competitive and not just fly by nite begging for work shops waiting one job day to day and then waiting by the phone . 

Thats when you find another place to work.

If your on your own today its a free for all you will work for what 40 years and be old and gray and have nothing to show but a old truck .

Just to add bottom line union doesnt mean there better at anything they just think and expel that .

I was union i know its a mind set during the training were better then non union . Thats changed its 2013 most big contractors today dont go with the higher wage of a union job . 

Theres less work for union in America why because the cost.
Most construction projects are looking to make a profit and not paying for high labor cost and political issues today workers have more protection by law .

Were educated people today we have the ability to not pay for protection if you know what your job is and do it well and can think for yourself its easy .
Plus non union contractors work year round and make more money and if you get on the ground floor you get a bonus each year maybe some stock in the company maybe a savings that in years to come its yours not shared with others waiting till to find out they spent it all on a stock investment that failed and theres no money left after 40 years. 

I like my revenue in my bank each year solid investment i dont like someone else holding on to it when there future looks grim and in 10 years will be forever and non existence .

Its doesnt matter who your work for today its all about money. Look around see whos the top contractors were there at and go there move travel if your young pack it up and move on.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Well union or non union its the company your work for if there low budget scum then thats what happens. No phone nothing to offer you .
> 
> If there competitive and not just fly by nite begging for work shops waiting one job day to day and then waiting by the phone .
> 
> ...


Lots of ignorant and maybes here so I won't waste any effort refuting them.

Tool list,
Reason is that most contracts require the contractor to replace any tools that are stolen out of secure storage on a job site. The tool list limits the liability on the side of the contractor.
Another problem is that someone could bring in an Uncalibrated meter or torque wrench or what ever and the contractor would have no control them.
Ladders, I can't even imagine.
Contractors should be in complete control of all of the field technology including laptops and phones. If nothing else, just for the sake of security.
Every union contractor I ever worked for was happy to supply what ever tools we requested. They were usually very professionally managed and made a good living following what ever a local contract required.
Some shops operate in multiple jurisdictions with different pay, overtime requirements, pension and health care rates. It can be a challenge but that is there business so, they get it right most of the time. When they don't, they fix it right away.
I can't even remember getting getting a layoff and always made nice money with very nice benefits including a generous pension plan that is well insured.

That's just my experience, I can't vouch for anyone else.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

As usual, eejack is being the know-it-all who has no clue what he is talking about. He makes broad generalizations of the entire IBEW, when in fact it is simply not true.

As I said, he was incorrect to state that the tool list restricts members to only those tools. It may be that way in some locals, but not all. 

In my local, the tool list is a minimum. That means that you have to have those tools with you at all times, but a contractor can not force you to bring any tool that isn't on the list. However, you can volunteer to bring a handtool that isn't on the list. For example, spin tights (nut drivers) are not on our tool list, but we can still elect to bring them.

Funny he brings up my apprenticeship, because that is exactly where we learned that. We were told how other locals do it differently, such as local 3 not have strippers on their tool list which means you *can't* bring them because that is what their agreement says.

Of course, eejack won't try to refute what I said, he'll just talk around it while spewing insults.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

HackWork said:


> As usual, eejack is being the know-it-all who has no clue what he is talking about. He makes broad generalizations of the entire IBEW, when in fact it is simply not true.
> 
> As I said, he was incorrect to state that the tool list restricts members to only those tools. It may be that way in some locals, but not all.
> 
> ...


He works in 164 yet keeps referencing local 3

I still say he is either LGLS himself or a cousin of that fool.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Instead of a pissing match, I'll offer my experience, as I have seen this thing evolve all over the place.
The purpose is quite simple. The local AGREEMENT is to spell out what the employee is responsible for, and what the employer is responsible for, reducing ambiguity to a minimum. Nothing more, nothing less.
When I started, the tool list was a minimum/maximum requirement. Contractors supplied miller strippers, T&B crimpers when required. Only the people terminating where issued these tools. Hacksaw blades where supplied by the contractor.
Over the years, I saw the list evolve untill one year ours read,"Employees shall supply all necessary hand tools not normally supplied by the contractor."
I called the hall and raised hell. "WTF does this mean? I am a GF and don't know what to do."
The following year, it was revised back.
It's now a gray area. The list is a minimum, with some notes like "No employee shall supply power/battery tools."
Now as a GF, I had to order tools like magnetic tips, blades, drill bits, and stuff like that. I always bought each man 3 mag tips, and told them that's it, take care of them, no more. Of course every guy had 50, and would tell me it was theirs. I asked where they bought them, and they would walk off.:laughing:
Some employers here now have so much trouble with battery guns, they are issued to each man to take care of, and are told they may have them at the end of the job. (They seem to disappear anyhow). That seems to have ended always buying them throughout the duration of the job.
Basically, I tell the guys have the tool list, and I will supply the rest. If a guy brings in a socket set, I don't care. If he needs me to buy one, I will, but I want it back. (9/16" always missing).
If the gang box is stolen, he gets the tool list back, no more.:thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sparky970 said:


> What difference would it make?


Company man, possibly looking out for the company interest over those of the union and it members?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird, your post just goes to show that every local's agreement is different.

Some are very strong, their tool list is a maximum, you *can't* bring any handtool that isn't on it.

Other local's tool list is a minimum, which means the contractor can't make you supply any handtool that isn't on the list, but a member could still volunteer on his own to bring it.

This exact topic has been discussed on this forum for over 5 years. 

This has nothing to do with whether I was organized or not (I wasn't), it's all about eejack making incorrect generalizations, as usual. And when he can't prove his point, he goes directly to insults.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Instead of a pissing match, I'll offer my experience, as I have seen this thing evolve all over the place.
> The purpose is quite simple. The local AGREEMENT is to spell out what the employee is responsible for, and what the employer is responsible for, reducing ambiguity to a minimum. Nothing more, nothing less.
> When I started, the tool list was a minimum/maximum requirement. Contractors supplied miller strippers, T&B crimpers when required. Only the people terminating where issued these tools. Hacksaw blades where supplied by the contractor.
> Over the years, I saw the list evolve untill one year ours read,"Employees shall supply all necessary hand tools not normally supplied by the contractor."
> ...


And thats about it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I was in a union shop where they required us to use our own vehicles to load material at the trailers and drive up to a mile to a new build in a tract development. Most guys created a rental fee in which whatever you don't use remains in the vehicle.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> I was in a union shop where they required us to use our own vehicles to load material at the trailers and drive up to a mile to a new build in a tract development. Most guys created a rental fee in which whatever you don't use remains in the vehicle.


HOLY CRAP!!. They would never fly here. What did the agreement say? Even lease backs are forebidden here.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Rochsolid said:


> Back on track, Eejack, if you carry tools that are not on the tool list, your coworkers would be angry with you? How Come? That just seems strange to me, but I've never been a part of the IBEW. You get a tool list that you must supply, then everything else is supplied by your employer? Why would your co workers care if you carry extra tools?


Harry basically covered it - it is an unfair advantage.

In theory all the workers come from the hall as equals - we all do the same work and are interchangable. You can assign anyone any task with a reasonable expectation of it being accomplished. You as the contractor know that if you want holes drilled in a box you need to have drill bits and drill motors on the site for example.

Now, I show up on the job with extra tools - I have my favorite drill motor I call old faithful with me...the contractor no longer has to supply one to the job. When it comes time to laying folks off, he keeps me a bit longer.

A brand new journeyman, just out of his time as an apprentice, cannot afford the array of tools that a grizzled 30 year journeyman like myself can afford, so if lay offs are based on what we bring to the job - he wouldn't have the same opportunity to work -ie the rich get richer..

In practice most guys carry extra hand tools - for example I carry an array of marking tools on jobs that require lots of layout - because it makes my life easier. But I used to carry speed wrenches for the same reason - until an old timer explained why we don't use them ( unless they are contractor supplied ) before nicely chucking them into the Hudson River.

On a recent job I had someone question whether or not smart phones were allowed...one of the young kids was using it for iBend. Interesting discussion without any real resolution.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HackWork said:


> This has nothing to do with whether I was organized or not (I wasn't), it's all about eejack making incorrect generalizations, as usual. And when he can't prove his point, he goes directly to insults.


So what insult did I direct in your direction hackysack?
:thumbsup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> So what insult did I direct in your direction hackysack?
> :thumbsup:


As was explained to you, your entire post #28 was an attack of insults and condescension. You took the time to do all of that, yet you didn't post a single bit of evidence refuting what I said.

At this point you know that you are wrong, but you still just can't admit it. Generalizing the agreements of every single IBEW local is a silly thing to do.

I can't find my CBA/Bylaws for my local and I find it pretty lame that they aren't available online, or else I would show you the proof that you assertions are incorrect.

I could sift thru other local's agreements looking for some that have minimum took lists like my own, but I assume even if I posted that proof you would still ignore it like always.

You continue to call other people trolls, but in reality you are one yourself. 95% of your posts are union crap or liberal political agenda and almost of of it is adversarial. Why not try posting about electrical work, helping people with code or installations for once?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

eejack said:


> Harry basically covered it - it is an unfair advantage.
> 
> In theory all the workers come from the hall as equals - we all do the same work and are interchangable. You can assign anyone any task with a reasonable expectation of it being accomplished. You as the contractor know that if you want holes drilled in a box you need to have drill bits and drill motors on the site for example.
> 
> ...


 socialism needs everyone to be equal the problem is we can not all be equally good so the lowest common denominator becomes the rule.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> socialism needs everyone to be equal the problem is we can not all be equally good so the lowest common denominator becomes the rule.


So why did you sign with the IBEW? Why were you so gungho about it?

Why did that company go under?

Why does your wife run your company now?

:whistling2:

:thumbup::laughing:


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

eejack said:


> So what insult did I direct in your direction hackysack?
> :thumbsup:


 hackysack:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

HackWork said:


> So why did you sign with the IBEW? Why were you so gungho about it?
> 
> Why did that company go under?
> 
> ...


Ah all the questions constantly asked but never answered.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

robnj772 said:


> Ah all the questions constantly asked but never answered.


 Rob lies again :whistling2:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

rewire said:


> Rob lies again :whistling2:


and the usual response


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

rewire said:


> Rob lies again :whistling2:


Post where I lied!

You will never answer hacks questions, you will just attempt to distract with crap like this.

Then do some stalkish thing like email my wife, make a dating profile using my picture, etc etc etc.

You will then get all crazy, get banned, reappear six months later.

Never answering the questions, questions that never would be asked if you weren't such a lying,grandstanding douche bag.

Classic rewire, rinse and repeat


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> So what insult did I direct in your direction *hackysack?*
> :thumbsup:


Why did that make me laugh?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Post where I lied!
> 
> You will never answer hacks questions, you will just attempt to distract with crap like this.
> 
> ...


Rob from day one through many sign in names this has been his MO, he likes to stir sh*t and aggrevate. No logic, no knowledge of the subject, lying or bending post and facts to try to shoe horn them into his post purely to ferent an argument.

That I get sucked in over and over shows a certain weakness in my personality.

IGNORE HIM, IGNORE HIM


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

And then starts the private messages. How many have you recieved from him today?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> And then starts the private messages. How many have you recieved from him today?


 Stay classy BJ


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> Rob from day one through many sign in names this has been his MO, he likes to stir sh*t and aggrevate. No logic, no knowledge of the subject, lying or bending post and facts to try to shoe horn them into his post purely to ferent an argument.
> 
> That I get sucked in over and over shows a certain weakness in my personality.
> 
> IGNORE HIM, IGNORE HIM


 I did nothing to you. YOU and I will repeat YOU decided to mock my post with a "FIFY" it didn't bother me so I returned the favor with a "FIFY" on one of you're posts then you go off and make a personal attack and accuse me of stirring. Really BJ how did I "suck you in"? You made a choice that I had nothing to do with now you ate acting all ass hurt. Simply don 't respond it is not that hard to do . I am not going to respond in any fashion to any post you make or direct at me just to show you how it is done. Ask hax I have not responded to any of his baiting. It can be done and we all can enjoy the forum.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is rewire's new shtick. He argues about BS, instead of proving his side he just baits you along. Then he cries and says that you are insulting him. :laughing:

This is like the 14th thread he's done the exact same thing in since he's been back.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

brian john said:


> Rob from day one through many sign in names this has been his MO, he likes to stir sh*t and aggrevate. No logic, no knowledge of the subject, lying or bending post and facts to try to shoe horn them into his post purely to ferent an argument.
> 
> That I get sucked in over and over shows a certain weakness in my personality.
> 
> IGNORE HIM, IGNORE HIM


The ignore option would be great except that he can still see your posts and comment on them.

The last time I had him on ignore another member had to inform me he was replying to my posts with my pictures and personal information.

When you ignore someone they should automatically not be able to see your posts as well.

Then this cockroach would go away for good.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> This is rewire's new shtick. He argues about BS, instead of proving his side he just baits you along. Then he cries and says that you are insulting him. :laughing:
> 
> This is like the 14th thread he's done the exact same thing in since he's been back.


If he's guilty of half the stuff he's accused of its clear he has mental problems and should probably just drive off a bridge


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

robnj772 said:


> The ignore option would be great except that he can still see your posts and comment on them.
> 
> The last time I had him on ignore another member had to inform me he was replying to my posts with my pictures and personal information.
> 
> ...


 Try this don't even use the button just don't respond. It is much more fun to watch the trolls try and bait you and they know it isn't working soon they tire and move on to another


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> If he's guilty of half the stuff he's accused of its clear he has mental problems and should probably just drive off a bridge


 well I got big shoulders so if they are trolling me they are leaving other posters alone. :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> If he's guilty of half the stuff he's accused of its clear he has mental problems and should probably just drive off a bridge


If he's guilty of half the stuff he's accused of its clear he has mental problems and should probably seek help for why he is so contentious.

YTo be fair we fall into his crap trap.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

rewire said:


> Try this don't even use the button just don't respond. It is much more fun to watch the trolls try and bait you and they know it isn't working soon they tire and move on to another


You started replying to us, no one brought you up until you chimed in


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I like watching Hack and EE argue. Back-and-forth bantering on the technical merits of each other's arguments. "Your argument does not conform to defined standards of what a good argument consists of. Your argument fails." It's an argument about arguing.

:laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

erics37 said:


> I like watching Hack and EE argue. Back-and-forth bantering on the technical merits of each other's arguments. "Your argument does not conform to defined standards of what a good argument consists of. Your argument fails." It's an argument about arguing.
> 
> :laughing:


Balls.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

erics37 said:


> I like watching Hack and EE argue. Back-and-forth bantering on the technical merits of each other's arguments. "Your argument does not conform to defined standards of what a good argument consists of. Your argument fails." It's an argument about arguing.
> 
> :laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

erics37 said:


> I like watching Hack and EE argue. Back-and-forth bantering on the technical merits of each other's arguments. "Your argument does not conform to defined standards of what a good argument consists of. Your argument fails." It's an argument about arguing.
> 
> :laughing:


It is even more comical now that I have him on ignore, I have to argue with him through other people. Lots of extra work. And the forms. Duplicate triplicate for everything now. :thumbsup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> It is even more comical *now that I have him on ignore, I have to argue with him through other people. Lots of extra work.* And the forms. Duplicate triplicate for everything now. :thumbsup:


And yet another lie from eejack :thumbup:

Proof:



eejack said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > This has nothing to do with whether I was organized or not (I wasn't), it's all about eejack making incorrect generalizations, as usual. And when he can't prove his point, he goes directly to insults.
> ...


No one quoted what I said, he read it like he does with all my posts :thumbsup:

And you still conveniently ignore the fact that many local's tool list is a minimum list. 

So Eric, how else would you like it?

He states something in a very authoritative way as a fact. I correct him in a reasonably polite way, explaining that it's not always that way (so other people do take it as fact and possibly get themselves into trouble). He then goes on an all out attack on me instead of discussing the subject. He goes back and forth with Gold in the same insulting way. And now, instead of discussing the actual issue of the tool list, he is trolling.

He's the union's version of rewire.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

eejack said:


> It is even more comical now that I have him on ignore, I have to argue with him through other people. Lots of extra work. And the forms. Duplicate triplicate for everything now. :thumbsup:


 he will call you a liar soon that is his shtick :laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HackWork said:


> And yet another lie from eejack :thumbup:
> 
> Proof.


It is called the view post link silly.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> It is called the view post link silly.


Then you're not doing as you said: "_I have to argue with him through other people. Lots of extra work._" 

:thumbup:

I could continue to argue with you and continue to debate your lies, but it's very clear that you are not man enough to admit that you were wrong about the tool list and that it is actually you who is the troll :thumbsup:

I'm ok with that, tho. I ain't mad at ya :laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Why don't you post one of those lies. Just copy the link down here and prove your statement.


Okay.



Goldagain said:


> I didn't read the thread


And yet you posted in the thread multiple times.

:thumbup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I could continue to argue with you and continue to debate your lies, but it's very clear that you are not man enough to admit that you were wrong about the tool list and that it is actually you who is the troll :thumbsup:
> 
> I'm ok with that, tho. I ain't mad at ya :laughing:


You could continue to argue, however you are missing two very important points.

I am not wrong.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> You could continue to argue, however you are missing two very important points.
> 
> I am not wrong.


Yes, I agree with you, you are right. I finally admit it.

You know what the agreement of every IBEW local says. Earlier in this thread when big2bird explained how his local handled the tool list over the years, he was lying. In all the other discussions about tool lists that we've had on this forum over the years in which people explained that their local's tool list was a minimum list only, they were lying too.

It is only you who is right.

How's that, Eric? :thumbup:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Earlier in this thread when big2bird explained how his local handled the tool list over the years, he was lying.


Now you've done it. My mangina hurts now.:laughing::laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Now you've done it. My mangina hurts now.:laughing::laughing:


We're still BFF's :brows:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> We're still BFF's :brows:


:hang::hang::hang::laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> they are just doing what contractors do.


Yeah that's what ****ty contractors do. 

Since they want the guy to get his CDL he will probably be expected to supply his own digger derrick next. :laughing:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

When a union electrician gets drug tested do they have to supply there own test kit?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Goldagain said:


> When a union electrician gets drug tested do they have to supply there own test kit?


Bet yet do they have to supply their own urine?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I was working in 164's territory when they started drug testing. The contractor I was working for wanted me to get the "clean card" so they could send me to other jobs there, so they paid the $52 or whatever it cost for me to take the test.

It was funny because they gave me a 2 month notice. Great way to drug test :thumbup:

:laughing:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Bet yet do they have to supply their own urine?


If its not on the list the contractor supplies it.



HackWork said:


> I was working in 164's territory when they started drug testing. The contractor I was working for wanted me to get the "clean card" so they could send me to other jobs there, so they paid the $52 or whatever it cost for me to take the test.
> 
> It was funny because they gave me a 2 month notice. Great way to drug test :thumbup:
> 
> :laughing:


Plenty of time to "Study"


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> When a union electrician gets drug tested do they have to supply there own test kit?


As a matter of fact, last time I was tested after an incident at work, I was paid 2 hrs double time to go take it. :laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

big2bird said:


> As a matter of fact, last time I was tested after an incident at work, I was paid 2 hrs double time to go take it. :laughing:


Damn, we only get $50 to do our random tests. You CA kids have it easy.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> As a matter of fact, last time I was tested after an incident at work, I was paid 2 hrs double time to go take it. :laughing:


Did they furnish the whiz or did you have to use your own?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

eejack said:


> Damn, we only get $50 to do our random tests. You CA kids have it easy.


Same here. This was a mandatory one at work when I kinda knocked a display on top of a chick.:whistling2:


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

you need the whizinator


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

brian john said:


> Did they furnish the whiz or did you have to use your own?


I furnished the whiz with MY tool.:laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HackWork said:


> So Eric, how else would you like it?
> 
> He states something in a very authoritative way as a fact. I correct him in a reasonably polite way, explaining that it's not always that way (so other people do take it as fact and possibly get themselves into trouble). He then goes on an all out attack on me instead of discussing the subject. He goes back and forth with Gold in the same insulting way. And now, instead of discussing the actual issue of the tool list, he is trolling.
> 
> He's the union's version of rewire.


S**t, now you're dissecting arguments to me! I don't think you can stop. You were born to argue.


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## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

I wish the bantering would stop....gets old real quick and does nothin for the edification of the topic at hand. ...Anyway.....the whole phone / laptop issue has come up because i am the sole service guy at the shop....a few journeyman have company issued phones and laptops......a few ..including myself dont. would i be in the wrong to send a bill to them?? I see no wording in our agreement that says i have to provide a cell phone or laptop. They could be considered power tools..How would you approach the situation? The steward at previous telcomm shop was adamant about following the rules..we sat for a few hours and went thru the agreement....on the clock of course..how does one get a new steward?? Being newer to the union scene i have a few questions on the internal workings..i chose to be union because i have a family and wanted the good wage and benis.....i have considered going out on my own. i am good at what i do....troubleshooting and service..its a job not many want and few know how to do...i know the owner wants me to stay...bought a new van and some decent tools for me....but the morale here stinks and stress of answering to a little tough guy may not be worth it. not sure the b.a. Is gonna be much help.....the grass may not be greener on the other side.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I was working in 164's territory when they started drug testing. The contractor I was working for wanted me to get the "clean card" so they could send me to other jobs there, so they paid the $52 or whatever it cost for me to take the test.
> 
> It was funny because they gave me a 2 month notice. Great way to drug test :thumbup:
> 
> :laughing:


We get $50 per passed drug test. Usually I wind up doing 2-3 per year. Obviously they don't work because I've passed them all :laughing:

Anyway the running joke is that when you get your $50 check in the mail it's just right to go buy 1/8 ounce :laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

aktrapper said:


> I wish the bantering would stop....gets old real quick and does nothin for the edification of the topic at hand. ...Anyway.....the whole phone / laptop issue has come up because i am the sole service guy at the shop....a few journeyman have company issued phones and laptops......a few ..including myself dont. would i be in the wrong to send a bill to them?? I see no wording in our agreement that says i have to provide a cell phone or laptop. They could be considered power tools..How would you approach the situation? The steward at previous telcomm shop was adamant about following the rules..we sat for a few hours and went thru the agreement....on the clock of course..how does one get a new steward?? Being newer to the union scene i have a few questions on the internal workings..i chose to be union because i have a family and wanted the good wage and benis.....i have considered going out on my own. i am good at what i do....troubleshooting and service..its a job not many want and few know how to do...i know the owner wants me to stay...bought a new van and some decent tools for me....but the morale here stinks and stress of answering to a little tough guy may not be worth it. not sure the b.a. Is gonna be much help.....the grass may not be greener on the other side.


The BA assigns the steward, NOT the shop. I would talk to the BA, tell him what you told us, and have him handle it. 
If you like the job enough to keep it, then only you know what to do. I cannot see there being many shops in Alaska, and you don't want to burn any bridges. 
Think it through, and walk gently. My 2 centavos.


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## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

Fwiw....i was asked many times by said steward to practice truck driving after hours....and i did to appease him....i now have my permit and need to take the driving test.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

aktrapper said:


> Fwiw....i was asked many times by said steward to practice truck driving after hours....and i did to appease him....i now have my permit and need to take the driving test.


I don't see any issue there.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I've never been in the Union but worked 18 years as a foreman/supervisior for electricians, instrument tech's (IBEW) and engineers.

In the plants we always supplied everything so it was simple if somebody needed something I ordered enough for everybody. Never a problem.

We ordered courses ($3K) for the new guys and gave them time to study, three times a week (four hours each day). They got to shadow the older guys, until they could work alone. 

If a new guy wanted to bring in his own tolls I would discourage it, for all of the reasons, already mentioned.

I had the best crews in the world, never a complaint. Never passed on the crap from the front office to them, never had to. In fact, they even asked me why..said I never saw the need.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

The largest company I worked for had an outright ban on any personal tool. I don't quite understand how they could make money doing that but they did.


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