# Things a new apprentice Should know



## 80electric (10 mo ago)

After reading a bit online about schooling vs apprenticeship's I have decided to not attend any school and do a apprenticeship, thats if anybody accepts me. To be honest I don't know much, but im willing to self teach myself the basics before I apply for a apprenticeship. I do understand some simple things, like circuits and wiring in my house.. but nothing more than a Do it urselfer could handle. I have viewed the college classes one would take and can cover some of that material myself with online/ book resources. My question is kind of vag but what should I know before applying? or what can I do to right now on my own in preparation for this career? I guess another way to put this question is what will a apprentice be doing in the beginning? I feel kind of worthless coming in uneducated and with no experience, i want to be of help and not a nucance 


thanks


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

80electric said:


> After reading a bit online about schooling vs apprenticeship's I have decided to not attend any school and do a apprenticeship, thats if anybody accepts me. To be honest I don't know much, but im willing to self teach myself the basics before I apply for a apprenticeship. I do understand some simple things, like circuits and wiring in my house.. but nothing more than a Do it urselfer could handle. I have viewed the college classes one would take and can cover some of that material myself with online/ book resources. My question is kind of vag but what should I know before applying? or what can I do to right now on my own in preparation for this career? I guess another way to put this question is what will a apprentice be doing in the beginning? I feel kind of worthless coming in uneducated and with no experience, i want to be of help and not a nucance
> 
> 
> thanks


Chances are since your on here asking you're already head and shoulders above the competition. Find a good company that treats you properly, if they don't quit. Keep learning you'll be good.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

80electric said:


> After reading a bit online about schooling vs apprenticeship's I have decided to not attend any school and do a apprenticeship, thats if anybody accepts me. To be honest I don't know much, but im willing to self teach myself the basics before I apply for a apprenticeship. I do understand some simple things, like circuits and wiring in my house.. but nothing more than a Do it urselfer could handle. I have viewed the college classes one would take and can cover some of that material myself with online/ book resources. My question is kind of vag but what should I know before applying? or what can I do to right now on my own in preparation for this career? I guess another way to put this question is what will a apprentice be doing in the beginning? I feel kind of worthless coming in uneducated and with no experience, i want to be of help and not a nucance
> 
> 
> thanks


The first thing you should do is look up the word apprentice and see what it means. Then you realize how ridiculous your entire post and your entire plan actually is.

The situation you are describing is called being a helper. As a helper you work for a nonunion shop you won’t have benefits you won’t have a pension you won’t have vacations and nothing will be guaranteed for you at all you are entirely and completely on your own.

If you pick up the trade and learn things that’s great, often times lots of people do this and it is absolutely possible however you do have to have a special particular interest in the field, you have to like going to work, you have to like who you’re working for, and you have to have a propensity for an electric electro mechanical work. It Hass to be there naturally.

The chances of all of those stars aligning a slim to none although it has worked for some people it has not worked for far more people. You are setting yourself up for failure, and you are setting yourself up to be used, chewed up, and spit out by multiple contractors, and never ending string a businessman who want nothing more but to hire untrained electrical workers who will simply do installs despite the fact that they have absolutely no idea what they are doing, or why they are doing it , why is three-way switches work, why decker wire is required in kitchens, etc. etc.

I suggest you get an actual real apprenticeship which by the way kiddo, requires you attend school at night or perhaps one day a week all day for 54 or five years during which time you will still be working the majority of the time, and you will be learning on the job earning on the job and learning the theory and the practical skills in a classroom , doing math, doing science, learning the code, learning the rules in the regulations, the tricks of the trade yada yada yada.

Good luck in your endeavors. Peace out.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

LGLS said:


> The first thing you should do is look up the word apprentice and see what it means. Then you realize how ridiculous your entire post and your entire plan actually is.
> 
> The situation you are describing is called being a helper. As a helper you work for a nonunion shop you won’t have benefits you won’t have a pension you won’t have vacations and nothing will be guaranteed for you at all you are entirely and completely on your own.
> 
> ...


How did you you arrive at the conclusion for this screed? He states he wants an apprenticeship and doesn't say anything about union or non-union. He states that he has decided to not go to school, as in a college to get a degree is how I'm reading this. Yet you, in totally predictability, fly off about how his plan will fail because he will work non-union.
Remember, not everyone here had a dad to get them into a coveted spot in the Union like you did.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

80electric said:


> After reading a bit online about schooling vs apprenticeship's I have decided to not attend any school and do a apprenticeship, thats if anybody accepts me. To be honest I don't know much, but im willing to self teach myself the basics before I apply for a apprenticeship. I do understand some simple things, like circuits and wiring in my house.. but nothing more than a Do it urselfer could handle. I have viewed the college classes one would take and can cover some of that material myself with online/ book resources. My question is kind of vag but what should I know before applying? or what can I do to right now on my own in preparation for this career? I guess another way to put this question is what will a apprentice be doing in the beginning? I feel kind of worthless coming in uneducated and with no experience, i want to be of help and not a nucance


Just the fact that you're willing to put some effort in is the first thing that will make you a better candidate, so good for you. 

If you're going to try for a union apprenticeship, it really depends on your location, but most places they are competitive. If there are tests for applicants, they are probably general knowledge / math tests, find out what you need to know and if necessary take classes to raise those scores. Most places, any construction experience at all will help, so take what you can find and learn what you can while trying to get in. 

Don't pay any attention to the whackadoo windbag. In most places, including in most union locals, initiative, hard work, and actually being better do matter. Whackadoo is retired spends his days criticizing and irritating people and telling himself he's right about everything. He lived in a weird microcosm where initiative, effort, and being better won't get you jack, Nicolai Tesla wouldn't get into his local chapter unless Milutin Tesla was related to one of the officers, and / or delivered the appropriate envelopes to the appropriate people. The rest of the world, effort and a good attitude are a great asset.


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

80electric said:


> After reading a bit online about schooling vs apprenticeship's I have decided to not attend any school and do a apprenticeship, thats if anybody accepts me. To be honest I don't know much, but im willing to self teach myself the basics before I apply for a apprenticeship. I do understand some simple things, like circuits and wiring in my house.. but nothing more than a Do it urselfer could handle. I have viewed the college classes one would take and can cover some of that material myself with online/ book resources. My question is kind of vag but what should I know before applying? or what can I do to right now on my own in preparation for this career? I guess another way to put this question is what will a apprentice be doing in the beginning? I feel kind of worthless coming in uneducated and with no experience, i want to be of help and not a nucance
> 
> 
> thanks


1) IMO do some research on electrical contractor businesses in your area. Look at reviews being conscious to filter out the negative ones. Remember... there are normally more negative reviews because pissed off write a review before satisfied people.
2) Work on your spelling and proper penmanship.
3) Ask questions in your interviews. Like about a accredited apprenticeship program. Move on if they do not offer one.
4) Union is not what it was 40 years ago. Don't get sucked into the propaganda.
5) Be 5-10 minutes early and make this a standard practice. See Vince Lombardi quote.
6) Be willing to learn and be quiet and Listen to those with way more knowledge and experience.
7) Ask questions when working under foreman/journeyman, make up for lack of knowledge with hard work, drive and show interest to be better.
8) Work later if job requires it and not be in a rush to go home after 8hrs.
9) Always have a pencil, Sharpie and measuring tape.
10) Dress and carry yourself with integrity.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

I don't have the the veteran level experience that some of the above posters have, but I do have very recent/current experience in both union and non union work/education. 

The whole industry is fairly convoluted and the information that applies from one state to the next gets completely mixed up. 

The first thing I would do is narrow down the state(s) that I wanted to be able to work as an electrician in. 

Once you know what state procedure to follow you can at least narrow down the sometimes daunting amounts of information out there regarding becoming an electrician. 

Secondly, don't worry about learning electrical theory, code or even best practices before you get into the trade. Focus on developing the things that can't be taught. Your work ethic, attitude and demeanor are going to be greater determining factors than your understanding even of basic circuitry.

If you were going to try to get ahead at all, I would direct your energies towards learning the basic materials and tools that apply to our trade. Dustin Stelzer of ElectricianU has a good introduction to the most fundamental materials of two of the big three work environments (Resi,Commercial,Industrial). 

Understanding the tools and materials will be much more useful for the type of work you'll be performing in your first year(s) as an apprentice/helper. You can then study basic circuitry in the days of your ditch digging, after that you can study advanced theory and code while your wiring switches and receptacles, etc. etc. 

Just my 2 pennies, hope it helps.


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## 80electric (10 mo ago)

thanks guys for the replies. The main reason I want to skip school and just do a apprenticeship is because i have read on this forum that a lot of people are dissapointed with people that come out of trade school. They would rather have someone with 2 years experience vs 2 years of school with not much hands on experience and taking that into consideration it makes plenty sense money wise to follow that route. I have heard in a few replies talk about a Real or Accredited apprenticeship, is that one with a little bit of schooling involved?

In response to LGLS account I may ask why do so many companies allow apprenticeships if its such a bad idea? I do like your reply , this is why I want to be prepared as possible because I know I will run into people like you. Everybody has to learn some how right? I would rather get paid to do it rather than pay to do it if its possible. I understand there will be a big learning curve with this route and With all respects to the field and the workers I will give my best effort


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## 80electric (10 mo ago)

ZacharyBob said:


> Dustin Stelzer of ElectricianU


is his info on a youtube channel?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

80electric said:


> thanks guys for the replies. The main reason I want to skip school and just do a apprenticeship is because i have read on this forum that a lot of people are dissapointed with people that come out of trade school. They would rather have someone with 2 years experience vs 2 years of school with not much hands on experience and taking that into consideration it makes plenty sense money wise to follow that route. I have heard in a few replies talk about a Real or Accredited apprenticeship, is that one with a little bit of schooling involved?
> 
> In response to LGLS account I may ask why do so many companies allow apprenticeships if its such a bad idea? I do like your reply , this is why I want to be prepared as possible because I know I will run into people like you. Everybody has to learn some how right? I would rather get paid to do it rather than pay to do it if its possible. I understand there will be a big learning curve with this route and With all respects to the field and the workers I will give my best effort


what are you expected to know?
the reason you were hired, which is to make money for the owner of the business
the best way to do that is to listen and do what the jman says, right then
he wants to keep his job, you are there to help him accomplish his tasks
he will fire you for not helping him before he gets fired for not making progress
be able to do what you are told, right then
when you are done with a task, report to the jman immediately, dont assume he doesnt need you for anything else
how to stay off of your phone, all day (turn it off and leave it that way)
at lunch, listen to conversations of your jmen and ask questions, ask questions like why, and how does that help
dont ask those questions when working, before you do what you are told

education and knowledge needed:
a strong back and a weak mind
but seriously , if you had an electrical engineer degree, you would still start as an apprentice/helper
there are way too many things to mention that you will need to learn by doing and experience
if you have a good jman he will teach you stuff, most of it will be a dab at a time, and you may not recognize what he taught you until later

on the job experience is the absolute best training you could buy
why not get paid for it instead?

in response to lgls , he just shows up from time to time, goes on several rants then leaves for a few days


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

80electric said:


> thanks guys for the replies. The main reason I want to skip school and just do a apprenticeship is because i have read on this forum that a lot of people are dissapointed with people that come out of trade school. They would rather have someone with 2 years experience vs 2 years of school with not much hands on experience and taking that into consideration it makes plenty sense money wise to follow that route. I have heard in a few replies talk about a Real or Accredited apprenticeship, is that one with a little bit of schooling involved?
> 
> In response to LGLS account I may ask why do so many companies allow apprenticeships if its such a bad idea? I do like your reply , this is why I want to be prepared as possible because I know I will run into people like you. Everybody has to learn some how right? I would rather get paid to do it rather than pay to do it if its possible. I understand there will be a big learning curve with this route and With all respects to the field and the workers I will give my best effort


I think the key point is getting paid to learn. I know I took this route and so have many others. School is great and a good vs great apprenticeship program includes classroom instruction while working full time. Putting books and practical experience together is IMO is the best way to approach this.
Okay union vs non-union. Sanctioned IBEW apprenticeships require classroom and practical learning. Other apprenticeship programs may not. So if you can get into a union that is great. But if you cannot, there are other ways to become an apprentice/helper. Keep an open mind. You will hear a lot about both. IMO the union route is by far the best way to go. Get paid while you learn. Get classroom training at the same time. Get paid a decent salary and other very good benefits including one of the best retirement plans around.. Safety focus. 
Good luck and apply at a local union today. You gotta start somewhere and this is your best start possible.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> How did you you arrive at the conclusion for this screed? He states he wants an apprenticeship and doesn't say anything about union or non-union. He states that he has decided to not go to school, as in a college to get a degree is how I'm reading this. Yet you, in totally predictability, fly off about how his plan will fail because he will work non-union.
> Remember, not everyone here had a dad to get them into a coveted spot in the Union like you did.


And you, totally predictably, allow your jealousy of my station in life to rear its ugly head in your ego crushed , forever scratching and crawling and “ Never been adequately 
recognized” existence. 

I pity you.

Peace out.


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

80electric said:


> thanks guys for the replies. The main reason I want to skip school and just do a apprenticeship is because i have read on this forum that a lot of people are dissapointed with people that come out of trade school.


When you say 'skip school'...what School are you referring to...Vo-Tech in high School, or a trade school that you pay for?
If you mean paid trade school...YES ABSOLUTELY A WASTE OF MONEY. You are much better off being hired by a good contractor, working with them for a year and absorbing everything you can like a sponge. Make sure you are proficient with tools, have transportation and are on time. Than a good contractor would talk to you about putting you through apprenticeship. 4 years of schooling and 8000 hrs. on the job documented.
YES an apprenticeship involves school (book work)

Again, work on your spelling and grammar. I've have always felt electricians should be the elite of the trades. If you talk and spell like an idiot, than you are definitely not elite.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

LGLS said:


> And you, totally predictably, allow your jealousy of my station in life to rear its ugly head in your ego crushed , forever scratching and crawling and “ Never been adequately
> recognized” existence.
> 
> I pity you.
> ...


Busted and guilty as charged. 
I truly wish I was a mediocre at best electrician like you were.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

Learn how to learn.

the learning is always, 100% the responsibility of the student.

reading a tape measure.

Slow and steady.
Math. From fractions to vectors. Slowly.
Powers of observation. Keep eye’s open, ears open. Mouth closed, only to ask questions, and clarification of direction.

stay off phone.

keep water bottle as part of your kit. OSHA states employer must provide water but not bottle, just has to be potable.

rubber safety boots and leather for the trench work.

have fun learning.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

In LGLS defense (not that its needed) but the SKIP SCHOOL/NOT ATTEND School BS caught my eye too.

Classroom hours are an integral part of apprentice training. Learning electrical and theory and the NEC requires some disciplined training, and in many states (Like Massholechustts) it required if you endeavor to become a Journeyman and not a dead end *helper*.(emphasis added).

And NO, you can't learn this trade on Youtube. There are some helpful videos, if you know what to look for but how do you know what to look for if you don't know what to look for?


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

I'll weigh in with a northern perspective. Here in Canada, each province monitors an apprentice's schooling. The schooling is critical in that it gives all apprentices a bit of common ground. Lord knows that no one covers the full scope of the trade in a 4-5 yr apprenticeship. The academics of school as well as the shop labs may be the only formal training an apprentice receives.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Probably if your going to buy one book, it should be the Mileaf Electricity 1-7. I don’t know what the latest edition is. Probably stopped years ago? Still a good book though.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

My wife was the best wire feeder... EVER! You know why? She listened intently to my instructions on how we would do this. 

She would at times go with me to the job to just see what I did. Well I put her to work. She used to watch what I was doing and could anticipate when I needed her to hold something (don't get sexy fellows), what fitting I might need next (then have it ready for me w/out me asking). She paid attention and learned, she did not come in with a preconceived idea of how I should do something. 

If you want to make an impact, listen, pay attention, anticipate. Oh yea, hold your temper, you will be tested.


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## poncho144 (Apr 7, 2018)

Hey gang, the kid is need'n some good advice, ya know, knock off all the side line crap of egos.
Jus say'n.....


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## 80electric (10 mo ago)

Thanks everyone for the feedback it helps a lot. After a bit of research I Think it would be best to get on with IBEW. How much more does the union make more than other places on average?


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## poncho144 (Apr 7, 2018)

Excellent choice. In SW Indiana an ape will pull 'round $17 an hour while a JM around $41. Hard part is gett'n hooked up to an opening.


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

oldsparky52 said:


> My wife was the best wire feeder... EVER! You know why? She listened intently to my instructions on how we would do this.
> 
> She would at times go with me to the job to just see what I did. Well I put her to work. She used to watch what I was doing and could anticipate when I needed her to hold something (don't get sexy fellows), what fitting I might need next (then have it ready for me w/out me asking). She paid attention and learned, she did not come in with a preconceived idea of how I should do something.
> 
> If you want to make an impact, listen, pay attention, anticipate. Oh yea, hold your temper, you will be tested.


Plus you didn't pull her knuckles into the conduit! 😉


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

poncho144 said:


> Hey gang, the kid is need'n some good advice, ya know, knock off all the side line crap of egos.
> Jus say'n.....


I agree on the kid needing good advise. Go into plumbing kid. The money is way better and there's a lower barrier to entry.

The down side is you won't be able to partake in this awesome community of electricians.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

CA C-10 said:


> Plus you didn't pull her knuckles into the conduit! 😉


LOL, she had instructions on how that can happen and how to avoid it before the 1st ever pull. She paid attention.


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## pokeytwo (Dec 6, 2015)

A wife that pays attention??
Aren’t those up there with unicorns and Santa Clause?


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

flyboy said:


> I agree on the kid needing good advise. Go into plumbing kid. The money is way better and there's a lower barrier to entry.
> 
> The down side is you won't be able to partake in this awesome community of electricians.


ROFLMAO!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

1. Always carry a pencil. For notes and break orders
2. Try to watch the electrician you work with and think one step ahead of him.
3. Do not get cocky with newer apprentices as you get years under your belt.
4. Sweeping the floor, taking the trash out, and getting break orders are all part of your job.
5. I do not care how close it is to quitting time, do not start putting tools away until the mechanic tells you it is time to pick up (number 2 above does not fully apply here).
6. Do not argue, discuss
7. Keeping the cell phone off should not need to be said.
8. Having a valid clean driver's license can be important in shops.
9. 15 minutes early or you are late.
10. 10 minutes into the day do not ask how long is this going to take with an eye on going home early.
11. No one should yell or scream at you, you are an apprentice, not a slave, explain that you are an adult and should be addressed as an adult.


Much of what I learned was from reading away from the job, if you want to truly have this be more than a job, educate yourself. It is easier now than ever with youtube and forums.


There is more but enough for now.


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## BleedingLungsMurphy (10 mo ago)

brian john said:


> 1. Always carry a pencil. For notes and break orders
> 2. Try to watch the electrician you work with and think one step ahead of him.
> 5. I do not care how close it is to quitting time, do not start putting tools away until the mechanic tells you it is time to pick up (number 2 above does not fully apply here).
> 7. Keeping the cell phone off should not need to be said.
> ...


You must be oldschool. I have to disagree with these. Cellphones are a valuable tool with calculators and digital code books with a search function. You can take notes and communicate on site. Just follow company policy regarding cellphone use.
Packing up when it slows down shouldn't be an issue, either. Showing up 15 minutes early is ridiculous. Just don't be late. Anyone who tries to assert that much control over you has mental health issues.

Absolutely ask how long a job is going to take. There are no stupid questions. I hated working with foreman that refuse to share information. It makes the day drag on with no end in sight. You aren't a slave.

Some companies will treat you like trash if you let them. You have to stand up for yourself and know your rights as an employee. You don't have to work for free. You don't have to stay late for free. You don't have to show up early for free. You have the right to refuse unsafe work. If you get fired for any of these then they did you a favor. Just move on and find a company that treats you with respect.

Be respectful but don't take any **** from anyone because they feel that they have some perceived authority over you that goes beyond teaching you the skills of the trade.

Good luck!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BleedingLungsMurphy said:


> You must be oldschool. I have to disagree with these. Cellphones are a valuable tool with calculators and digital code books with a search function. You can take notes and communicate on site. Just follow company policy regarding cellphone use.
> 
> Good luck!


Using your cell phone for work and using your cell phone for playing games and texting all day are two different things and the mechanic should be able to discern the difference. In my experience 99.9% of the apprentices are d*cking the dog when they are staring into to their phone, not working.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

oldsparky52 said:


> My wife was the best wire feeder... EVER! You know why? She listened intently to my instructions on how we would do this.
> She would at times go with me to the job to just see what I did. Well I put her to work. She used to watch what I was doing and could anticipate when I needed her to hold something (don't get sexy fellows), what fitting I might need next (then have it ready for me w/out me asking). She paid attention and learned, she did not come in with a preconceived idea of how I should do something.
> If you want to make an impact, listen, pay attention, anticipate. Oh yea, hold your temper, you will be tested.


Here around the house no matter the job, my wife is right there with me if I ask for help. She knows now what channelocks are vs a adjustable wrench. But she is still not real proficient in knowing what I will need before I need it. But just having a wife that will help me is something most men could only imagine.




80electric said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback it helps a lot. After a bit of research I Think it would be best to get on with IBEW. How much more does the union make more than other places on average?


Here in SC a non-union guy makes about 1/2 of what a union guy makes. Unless they work in a high end manufacturing plant like BMW. There are few unions in SC worth mentioning. I don't even think there is an IBEW local in my town. So pay is whatever they can get away with paying.



brian john said:


> 1. Always carry a pencil. For notes and break orders
> 2. Try to watch the electrician you work with and think one step ahead of him.
> 3. Do not get cocky with newer apprentices as you get years under your belt.
> 4. Sweeping the floor, taking the trash out, and getting break orders are all part of your job.
> ...


Well said Brian.



BleedingLungsMurphy said:


> You must be oldschool. I have to disagree with these. Cellphones are a valuable tool with calculators and digital code books with a search function. You can take notes and communicate on site. Just follow company policy regarding cellphone use.
> Packing up when it slows down shouldn't be an issue, either. Showing up 15 minutes early is ridiculous. Just don't be late. Anyone who tries to assert that much control over you has mental health issues.
> 
> Absolutely ask how long a job is going to take. There are no stupid questions. I hated working with foreman that refuse to share information. It makes the day drag on with no end in sight. You aren't a slave.
> ...


Hey Murphy. I agree with some of the things you mention. And yes Brian, myself and many others on this forum are old school and just plain old. 
Cell phones on the job while helpful, in most cases are not being used for work related stuff.
Packing up for the day should be when the foreman says to pack up. (picking up a broom or cleaning up requires no supervisor input)
Being early to work is just plain common sense. Apprentices/everyone should be ready to start work at starting time. 
Asking how long the job will take is kinda dumb. Unless you are on a big job with set times to starting and quitting work. 
I can tell you if an apprentice came to work with these perceived rights he/she would not last long on the job or with the contractor. Apprentices are there to learn, work and gain working knowledge of our trade. I agree every person and especially apprentices should be treated with respect. But to come in new with rights is a sure sign of trouble. 
I was treated with respect when I was an apprentice and I always remembered how I was treated when it was my turn to teach.
I thank those that taught me and made work interesting. I also leaned a lot about human nature and I learned there are expected things and those things may not always jive with your personal belief. That is the life of an apprentice. Keep your damn mouth shut and do what is asked of you.


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