# Guess what it is



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Nothing special, but can you see what's different about it? Other then it being old and ugly.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Looks a little big to be single phase

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

walkerj said:


> Looks a little big to be single phase
> 
> Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


To give you an idea, the main is about 10-12ft off the ground. Oh, and this has to be atleast the second "upgraded" version of this service, if you can believe that?????:blink:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Looks like 2 huge double pole breakers under one handle tie.


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Looks like 2 huge double pole breakers under one handle tie.


But why?


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> But why?


Hell if I know -- parallel the breaker to get higher ampacity?


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Hell if I know -- parallel the breaker to get higher ampacity?


But didn't you notice, the feeds are paralleled. You ever see a set up like that?
Extra credit if you can guess the voltage from breaker to breaker.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

2 phase


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> But didn't you notice, the feeds are paralleled. You ever see a set up like that?
> Extra credit if you can guess the voltage from breaker to breaker.


Yes I did notice ... I have heard of this setup and it is legal if it is a factory setup but we cannot just take 2 breakers and put them together.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I will guess 120/240


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes I did notice ... I have heard of this setup and it is legal if it is a factory setup but we cannot just take 2 breakers and put them together.


Sure you can, well for this set up.



gold said:


> 2 phase


:thumbup:
Ok, can you get the extra credit question?


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I will guess 120/240


Not between breakers.
From lug to lug on each individual breaker yes, but not from one breaker to another.
The bus is not set up like your thinking in your minds eye.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> Sure you can, well for this set up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope.

I totally forget. I think its something completely unusable tho like 180 or something.


----------



## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

gold said:


> Nope.
> 
> I totally forget. I think its something completely unusable tho like 180 or something.


That's it. It's like 175V.
I wish I had more pics from this job. Tons of old 2 phase motors, panels, 4 pole breakers, even a shop welder. It's all getting replaced.
A lot of times you'll see the legs get mixed up a long the ways, and things get fried. :laughing: It's still in pretty heavy use in parts of the city, but a lot has been dumped over the past ten years or so.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> That's it. It's like 175V.
> I wish I had more pics from this job. Tons of old 2 phase motors, panels, 4 pole breakers, even a shop welder. It's all getting replaced.
> A lot of times you'll see the legs get mixed up a long the ways, and things get fried. :laughing: It's still in pretty heavy use in parts of the city, but a lot has been dumped over the past ten years or so.


Not a bad guess for an attic rat I guess!!

Thanks for the pics.


----------



## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for the pic.  

I also see the dreaded individual phases through separate chase nipples too.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

mxslick said:


> Thanks for the pic.
> 
> I also see the dreaded individual phases through separate chase nipples too.


I could be wrong but I don't think it really matters with 2 phase because theres induced voltages on just about everything it passes through anyway.


----------



## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

gold said:


> I could be wrong but I don't think it really matters with 2 phase because theres induced voltages on just about everything it passes through anyway.


I think you are wrong sir...if the two phases of this system are passed through the same fitting, the fields would still result in cancellation, same as if two phases of a three-phase system are in the same pipe. And same as if a single-phase and neutral were in the same pipe. 

I am not sure of the phase displacement in a true two-phase system, even if it isn't 180 degrees (two phases of a three-phase system would be 120 degrees) the effect would be the same.


----------



## joethemechanic (Sep 21, 2011)

Scott connection and 86.6 come to mind. Phases are 90 degrees apart. Oh what a nightmare finding parts for that old chit


----------



## joethemechanic (Sep 21, 2011)

The worst thing about 2 phase is

3 phase circuit 1.5 times the copper and you get 1.75 times the power as compaired to a single phase circuit.

2 phase 3 wire circuit 1.5 times the copper and you only get 1.43 times the power.

But I guess copper was cheap in those days.

For working on those old motors on the bench for testing purposes you can get 2 phases 90 degree apart off of a 4 wire delta 120/240 transformer connection but the voltages will be unbalanced. One phase will be 240V and the other will be 208V


----------



## joethemechanic (Sep 21, 2011)

joethemechanic said:


> The worst thing about 2 phase is
> 
> 3 phase circuit 1.5 times the copper and you get 1.75 times the power as compaired to a single phase circuit.
> 
> ...


OOPs that should have been 1.73 (Square root of 3)


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

*Beast ?*

Is this the BEAST ? 

If N present , 150% of Phase conductors ?


Donald " Outstanding Citizen of the Conch Republic "


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

*Beast*

Beast is essentially 2 - 2 ph systems , Neutral may be at 150 % of Ph 

Conductors ?

Tesla and Edison were chasing movie stars back then !



SKINNY , Hello ! 

Some where up the supply system , 

it has 4 Power Bus Bars , and 1 Neutral ? 


Donald " Outstanding Citizen of the Conch Republic "


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It's out of focus.


----------

