# Advice for Getting Into Local 6 - San Francisco, CA



## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm interested in getting into Local 6, but they won't be accepting applications for apprentices again until later on in 2020, and even then the application must be handed to them in person. That wouldn't be too bad if I didn't live all the way across the country in North Carolina. Despite, that I would be willing to make the drive just to personally hand them the application, and relocate there if I thought I was going to get in, but what I don't want to do is waste my time if that's not going to happen. Currently, I have no electrical experience, and would anticipate that the competition for getting into one of the highest paying locals in the country is tough.

My goal is to not have to travel in order to enjoy some of the highest wages in the industry by being able to sign book 1 in a local that has that. I had ruled out the Alaska local since I don't want to work in the coldest part of the country in trying to achieve that goal, and thought that Local 6 - San Francisco, CA, would offer a good compromise on that. What would you suggest I do?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> My goal is to not have to travel in order to enjoy some of the highest wages in the industry by being able to sign book 1 in a local that has that. I had ruled out the Alaska local since I don't want to work in the coldest part of the country in trying to achieve that goal, and thought that Local 6 - San Francisco, CA, would offer a good compromise on that. What would you suggest I do?


Highest paid local for a reason it is freaking California, there is a high-cost living and they will tax your butt off.

You are in NC you can move north to Washington DC and get in the local day one under a residential program, you will be working commercial and if there is 1/2 a brain in your head you can be in the "A" program within a year.

DC is starving for help.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The rent in the Bay Area is insane.

Double check your math.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

brian john said:


> Highest paid local for a reason it is freaking California, there is a high-cost living and they will tax your butt off.


I agree, but if the wage is high enough, I think it might be worth it.



brian john said:


> You are in NC *you can move north to Washington DC and get in the local day one under a residential program*, you will be working commercial and if there is 1/2 a brain in your head you can be in the "A" program within a year.
> 
> DC is starving for help.


Thanks for letting me know that. I did not know it could be that easy to get into one of the higher paying locals. A guaranteed shot into a higher paying local with a $45.45 scale (at Local 26) sounds better than the scale I would get at the local closest to me at $26.55. However, I'm not sure that I am better off going after that over the $71.00 scale in Local 6. I'm thinking it would depend on how hard it would be to get into Local 6. That's what I'm not so sure about.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

telsa said:


> The rent in the Bay Area is insane.
> 
> *Double check your math.*


I did. Based on:



This is what I came up with:



It would appear Local 6 is still the winner in terms highest wages. (I was unable to pull up the benefit information for all the Locals compared, for a more complete comparison, but I suspect, even with benefits taken into account, Local 6 would still come out ahead of the others.)


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

You are looking at rents in the city, nobody with an ounce of sense lives in the city.

DC is one of the easier locals to join.

If you are basing your future strictly on the fact of what a local makes you are missing some important points.

What is the work outlook like, how many electricians were out of work last year, last recession?

In my opinion, there are a lot more issues to look at than hourly wages in this decision.

Is the 71.00 the hourly or the loaded rate, do you know what the loaded rate is?

Someone from San Fran will chime in regarding this issue.

California ranks in highest state income tax along with Maryland, New York, New Jersey, and Massachuttes.
The average price of gas nationwide $2.81 San Fran $3.71
Sales tax 7.25% plus 1.25% for Locals dipping into your pocket


https://www.investors.com/politics/...oing-the-once-unthinkable-leaving-california/


Here
We have traffic, taxes just like everywhere just not as bad as California.


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## Mouser (May 4, 2011)

A first year in Frisco will make an average of $25.14 per hour according to Indeed.com. Hard to make rent on that.


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## Florida (Nov 20, 2018)

I would try IBEW Local 756 in Daytona too. Florida is a great place to work electrical, especially in the winter...


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Some Things That I Looked At*



brian john said:


> You are looking at rents in the city, nobody with an ounce of sense lives in the city.


I did that to make comparisons among locals easier to do. In actuality, I think I would be okay with something like an hour long commute in exchange for a much lower rent.



brian john said:


> DC is one of the easier locals to join.
> 
> If you are basing your future strictly on the fact of what a local makes you are missing some important points.
> 
> ...


I looked at a few things. 

I started by looking at the IBEW Job Board (http://ibew.org/jobsboard/). From there, I clicked on the results tab, and sorted listings by "wage". Local 6 came up as the local with the highest listed scale of $71.00 + $29.00 in benefits for a total wage of about $100/hr. Maybe that's what you mean by loaded rate. Not really sure, but that was one thing that jumped out at me. 



I also looked at Book 1 Status, and Book 2 Status. Both are "promising", with it appearing that this is a popular Local for traveling electricians when looking at the Book 2 Count, which was 299 when I checked it earlier, and now at 124. When I go onto the http://where2bro.com/where_to_go website, it would also seem to suggest that this is a good local to work at:





When I go to the Local's webpage (https://ibew6.org/), and play the video on its homepage, I hear the Local's Business Manager say, "The whole project area that became possible due to the transit center, across all the trades, is going to create something in the neighborhood of 17,000 job years". I'm not exactly sure what he means by "17,000 job years", but I'm guessing what it basically means is that there is, and will be for the foreseeable future, plenty of work available for electricians. 

Something else I looked at was the prevailing wage for San Francisco, CA electricians by checking with the Department of Labor. It is $71/hr, and there are pre-determined wage increases for the next 3 years at about a $6 a year.

 



So while the cost of living may continue to rise, so will the electrician's wages. That leads me to think people in other occupations, might not be able to afford to live there, and may leave the state, but the electricians working in local 6 I'm thinking, probably will be just fine.

Another thing I looked at is average temperature over there. Their average low is 46 degrees in the coldest month, and average high is 70 degrees in the hottest month (according to https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/san-francisco/california/united-states/usca0987). I like those temperature ranges better than I do of some other places. As for traffic, I've never been in California traffic, but suspect I'm going to hate the traffic no matter which local I live in. I know I hated DC traffic when I traveled up there for my non-electrical job.




brian john said:


> Someone from San Fran will chime in regarding this issue.
> 
> California ranks in highest state income tax along with Maryland, New York, New Jersey, and Massachuttes.
> The average price of gas nationwide $2.81 San Fran $3.71
> ...


I figure my most significant costs would be rent, and taxes. Other costs, such as paying an extra $1.00 in gas per gallon over the national average, I would think would be negligible for someone working on a $71.00/hr scale.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*I think it's do-able*



Mouser said:


> A first year in Frisco will make an average of $25.14 per hour according to Indeed.com. Hard to make rent on that.


I think it's do able if an apprentice is willing to live an hour away from the city, and rent as cheaply as possible. I've seen ads for as low as around $1,000 a month for a furnished room (as opposed to an entire apartment), and I think that's all I would really need starting out. I don't have a wife, kids, or pets to worry about at this point. Assuming a starting wage of $25.14/hr., leading to a gross monthly income of about $3,500, I would see that as do-able. Once I made more, I could spend more if I wanted I figure.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*If Only Daytona Paid More...*



Florida said:


> I would try IBEW Local 756 in Daytona too. *Florida is a great place to work electrical, especially in the winter...*


Oh, I agree with you on that as far as the weather goes. I actually went down to Daytona for a month in February to get away from the cold when we had the arctic blast come down from the north. While my family and friends were freezing their butts off up in the north, I was enjoying some nice Florida Sun in Daytona. I liked it so much there I even thought about moving there to start a career as an electrician. 

Then I looked up the wages for the Daytona local, and I think it was on the lower end of what the range of scales that the union offers as a whole. I can't remember for certain, but I think it might have been actually the lowest paying local that I came across with a journeyman rate of around $20/hr. Something like that.

So that sort of turned me off to the idea of moving to Daytona and making it my home local. My goal in becoming an electrician would be to create the brightest possible future for myself, and being locked into a local with the lowest pay wouldn't seem like the best way to go about it financially to me. Now traveling there sometimes after becoming a journeyman in Local 6 during the winter months for what I'd call a "workcation" wouldn't sound a like bad idea to me. Money would go a lot further there, to where I could live it up if I wanted, than it would San Francisco where I would probably be wise to conserve money, I would think.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Looks like you have done your homework, JUST DO NOT BEND OVER TO PICK UP ANYTHING in San Fran

Good luck.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Not in Local 6, but am an SF EC.

Local 6 can/will likely take 3-5 years to get in, unless your extremely lucky, like your wife is super hot and willing to take one for the team (or husband, or whatever, don't want to discriminate and all).

You could fly/drive all the way here and do that for years straight, just making the attempt to get in. They make it way more difficult than is necessary in that local, because they know they can and people will never stop applying.

I make more than the guys in Local 6 and I would hesitate to say I can afford the city. Affordable to me is no more than a quarter of your wages going to housing, which is next to impossible anywhere in Cali these days.

You're also competing with people who make 2-4 times what you do, and are more than willing to part with that money just for the SF address and lifestyle. Better off with DC IMO or just about anywhere else. 

Oakland is somewhat affordable and is only a bridge ride away, but that should take about an hour to cover those 5-10 miles during commute times. Don't forget to factor in your daily toll fee of $7 for the luxury of going to work everyday. Also, gas is currently hovering in the $4 range. So if you do move, better get a very fuel efficient car, or public transit. 

You will be killed on taxes, food (especially eating out) is more expensive, actually... Everything is more expensive. When your wages are $71 an hour, all the supporting services increase their wages as well. Entry level jobs in fast food can get you $15-$18 an hour in the city.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

Switched said:


> Not in Local 6, but am an SF EC.
> 
> *Local 6 can/will likely take 3-5 years to get in*, unless your extremely lucky, like your wife is super hot and willing to take one for the team (or husband, or whatever, don't want to discriminate and all).


Does it matter if I have 4,000 hours of experience with a C-10 Contractor, or come from another state after becoming a journeyman there? 



Switched said:


> You could fly/drive all the way here and do that for years straight, just making the attempt to get in. They make it way more difficult than is necessary in that local, because they know they can and people will never stop applying.


I wonder if I could do any better working for a Non-Union SF EC than I could working for a Local 6 Union Contractor. When I was looking at the prevailing wage data for San Francisco, it looked like all of the trades pay more highly there. Not just electric. That would lead me to think that it may be possible to achieve a high wage in that area regardless of whether you work for the union or not.




Switched said:


> I make more than the guys in Local 6 and I would hesitate to say I can afford the city. Affordable to me is no more than a quarter of your wages going to housing, which is next to impossible anywhere in Cali these days.
> 
> You're also competing with people who make 2-4 times what you do, and are more than willing to part with that money just for *the SF address and lifestyle*. Better off with DC IMO or just about anywhere else.


I wonder what's so special about that. I get that it's super expensive to live there, but other than that, I don't get it.



Switched said:


> *Oakland is somewhat affordable and is only a bridge ride away, but that should take about an hour to cover those 5-10 miles during commute times. * Don't forget to factor in your daily toll fee of $7 for the luxury of going to work everyday. Also, gas is currently hovering in the $4 range. So if you do move, better get a very fuel efficient car, or public transit.


I was thinking San Jose might be a better choice. The drive is further, and takes just about as long, but the congestion is not as bad. I can tolerate longer drives better than I can heavy congestion.



Switched said:


> You will be killed on taxes, food (especially eating out) is more expensive, actually... Everything is more expensive. When your wages are $71 an hour, all the supporting services increase their wages as well. Entry level jobs in fast food can get you $15-$18 an hour in the city.


I could see things like taxes being a significant expense, and something that can't really be controlled, but eating out I would think is more of a lifestyle choice that a person does have control over.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

The more I think about it, it would seem like San Francisco, as with any other high wage area, is a great place to make money. Just not a great place to spend it.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

```
Does it matter if I have 4,000 hours of experience with a C-10 Contractor, or come from another state after becoming a journeyman there?
```
Don't confuse the union requirements with the state. The union doesn't care what experience you bring to the table, if it was outside of them, you were likely taught wrong and are pretty worthless. :vs_laugh:

As far as the state certification goes, you can bring that experience to the table and it will count. 


```
I wonder if I could do any better working for a Non-Union SF EC than I could working for a Local 6 Union Contractor. When I was looking at the prevailing wage data for San Francisco, it looked like all of the trades pay more highly there. Not just electric. That would lead me to think that it may be possible to achieve a high wage in that area regardless of whether you work for the union or not.
```
No you will not do better. Most of the non-union shops pay crap in comparison. They concentrate highly on trying to provide the lowest wages possible, coupled with the fewest benefits. In San Jose, it is another story. There are much much better non-union shops located down there and you can make more non-union there than in the city. 


```
I was thinking San Jose might be a better choice. The drive is further, and takes just about as long, but the congestion is not as bad. I can tolerate longer drives better than I can heavy congestion.
```
San Jose is an overall better choice to live and work than SF. You are right that San Jose is further, but it takes longer to commute that distance than coming from Oakland. You will hit traffic in the Bay Area no matter which direction you go.

SF offers a decent lifestyle if you can afford it, they have a ton of bars, clubs, attractions, etc. But so does the South Bay area. You might look into Local 332, which has some really nice people in the office you can call up and talk to.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I think I hit the wrong button to quote you... lol


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Contact the local for their apprenticeship requirements. Here in NYC, local 3, you have to live within a 50 mile radius of Columbus Circle. We're not mailing applications to North Carolina, I doubt SF would either.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Contact the local for their apprenticeship requirements.


I think living in California would be a requirement to become a CA apprentice because as I understand it, I'd need to register as an "electrical trainee" with the state of CA, which would require a CA driver's license, which would require CA residency. Those things would be necessary to become an apprentice in CA, but I don't see how those things would be a requirement in order to apply for apprenticeship, or a problem to obtain those things after being offered a spot in the program. I'd have to double check with Local 6 to make sure I got that right. They have instructions for printing the application, and then bringing it into the office. That is assuming I still want to get into Local 6. From the things said so far about it, it sounds like that particular Local might be more trouble getting into as an apprentice than it's worth if it could indeed take 3 to 5 years to get into. The $71.00/hr scale sounds nice, but at the price of delaying my training by 3 or so years would seem like a huge opportunity cost.

If that's the case, then maybe I would be better off trying to get into a Local where my chances are far better, like with Local 26, and just accept that if I want that $71.00/hr scale, then I'm just going to have to accept becoming a traveler, and having to sign book 2 whenever I am in the SF area.



LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Here in NYC, local 3, you have to live within a 50 mile radius of Columbus Circle. We're not mailing applications to North Carolina, I doubt SF would either.


I was not aware that with some Locals, you can't print the application off from your computer, but have to come to the office to get an application. I thought the process with all of them was to print the application off on your personal printer or one you have access to, and then get it to them after you've filled it out.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Other Options*



Switched said:


> *San Jose is an overall better choice to live and work than SF.* You are right that San Jose is further, but it takes longer to commute that distance than coming from Oakland. You will hit traffic in the Bay Area no matter which direction you go.
> 
> SF offers a decent lifestyle if you can afford it, they have a ton of bars, clubs, attractions, etc. But so does the South Bay area. *You might look into Local 332, which has some really nice people in the office you can call up and talk to.*


I might do that. The only other choice I was thinking about in that area was Local 617 - San Mateo, CA, (should Local 6 prove to be a bad idea for some reason). Looks like both of them have a similar scale at around $60/hr.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Learn to smile like a donut.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

DeterminedSparky said:


> I'm interested in getting into Local 6, but they won't be accepting applications for apprentices again until later on in 2020, and even then the application must be handed to them in person. That wouldn't be too bad if I didn't live all the way across the country in North Carolina. Despite, that I would be willing to make the drive just to personally hand them the application, and relocate there if I thought I was going to get in, but what I don't want to do is waste my time if that's not going to happen. Currently, I have no electrical experience, and would anticipate that the competition for getting into one of the highest paying locals in the country is tough.
> 
> *My goal is to not have to travel in order to enjoy some of the highest wages* in the industry by being able to sign book 1 in a local that has that. I had ruled out the Alaska local since I don't want to work in the coldest part of the country in trying to achieve that goal, and thought that Local 6 - San Francisco, CA, would offer a good compromise on that. What would you suggest I do?



You do realize that your daily commute maybe like traveling in many areas.

Have you talked to any of the Cali guys that drive like more than half a day round trip to work and back.

Then there is the high cost of living in that area to consider.

If all you really want is good money I'd look at NYC or DC way before Cali.


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

I have lived in the Bay Area my entire life, bounced around from SF, San Jose, the East Bay. I'm currently a member of 595 - Alameda County. My recommendation is don't do it. Look into DC or NY, the amount that you will make out here for scale is not enough to deal with the much higher cost of living and the headaches of a commute. I've worked on job sites 12 miles away that at 5 in the morning can still take an hour to get there. 



Myself I hope to get out of this state in the next two years. I've been to other states and have friends that have moved away, all of them are happy to be free of this state.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I have lived in the Bay Area my entire life, bounced around from SF, San Jose, the East Bay. I'm currently a member of 595 - Alameda County. My recommendation is don't do it. Look into DC or NY, the amount that you will make out here for scale is not enough to deal with the much higher cost of living and the headaches of a commute. I've worked on job sites 12 miles away that at 5 in the morning can still take an hour to get there.
> 
> 
> 
> Myself I hope to get out of this state in the next two years. I've been to other states and have friends that have moved away, all of them are happy to be free of this state.



Thanks, I was hoping a Cali guy would come give him the reality of things there.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Thanks, I was hoping a Cali guy would come give him the reality of things there.


A Cali guy did! :vs_laugh:

That $71 an hour is relative to the cost of living. So $71 an hour here is the same as many of the other locals doing $35 or $45. 

I can guarantee that most if not all of the EC's outside of Cali can make their dollar stretch a lot farther than I can. Even if I was to make twice what they do, in the end they will be farther up the economic ladder.

There is money to be made, but that is because there are expenses to be paid. 

Don't just look at the wage. Take into consideration the ability to one day buy a house. Median income needed in over 1/2 the Bay Area is like $300k to buy a house, unless it is in the ghetto and needs a ton of work. Even then you need 100's of thousands for a down payment, and 100's of thousands for repairs.

I would rather live where a house costs $120k and you make $25 an hour.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I
> Myself I hope to get out of this state in the next two years. I've been to other states and have friends that have moved away, all of them are happy to be free of this state.


If you head to DC gives me a heads up I can help you at LU26


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

To the OP: You have no local connections.

Californian ECs have had a sour experience with 'imported talent' as BY FAR the most common event is that the new guy leaves mighty quickly. 

He's been under the illusion that East Coast // NEC Code cuts it in California. Because of our earthquake problems we are as far away from the NEC as Chicago is -- what with their fire problem. (You'll discover that Chicago doesn't much want 'imported talent' either.)

Since your interest is economic, I'd say your application is a dead letter. You've got TONS of local guys with connections baying to get in the door. 

I had the ex-Secretary of Local 6 try and get me in. He couldn't... and he'd just stepped down. If the Secretary singing my praises was not enough to even get me a hearing... what in the world do you think your chances are?

To have a shot you need to be a locally raised son-of-the-soil.

And current members have sons and nephews lined up to get in. 

SF, by the way, is not really an exploding market. San Jose has been the hot ticket for decades.

Silicon Valley is far more important than SF... which is now a party-town, tourist trap and home to digital mavens. It does not have Industry or Big Commercial projects -- housing (vertical) and the occasional government project is where its at. ( Especially for Local 6 ) Everything else is pretty much a house-at-a-time scale. ( Safeway tried to build a full size store in SF. They could only ever build one. They were unable to round up enough land. SF in that way resembles inner New York City.) What this means is that Local 6 but rarely even needs travellers. Life is smooth and steady. But you can't get in.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> A Cali guy did! :vs_laugh:
> 
> That $71 an hour is relative to the cost of living. So $71 an hour here is the same as many of the other locals doing $35 or $45.
> 
> ...



That is all why I lived in NJ and worked in NYC. Three years living in NY was more than enough for a lifetime.

I still have two houses just outside DC if I ever get crazy and decide to go back that way again.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Higher Wages for Maximizing Spending Power*



Switched said:


> A Cali guy did! :vs_laugh:
> 
> That $71 an hour is relative to the cost of living. So $71 an hour here is the same as many of the other locals doing $35 or $45.
> 
> ...


What I was thinking was that if I worked in an area with high wages, and spent as little as possible while living there, I would have more spending power when leaving that area to go on vacation where the cost of living could be relatively cheap. I was also thinking perhaps I could go about buying a vacation home the same way, whereas that might not be affordable if I went the low wage route. Same goes for retirement. Work in a place that is expensive, and retire in one that is cheap to maximize spending power.

As for being able to apply that strategy to buying a home in CA that isn't too far from work, that strategy probably wouldn't work if what I'm hearing is right, which is why I didn't plan on owning a house in CA. CA is a huge state. DC on the other hand is a relatively small area. I remember when I traveled up there, I was able to get a room for the night in Fredericksburg, VA, which is about an hour south from DC for $50 a night. Once I got into DC, I couldn't find anything for less than $100, and what I did find was very low quality. So perhaps Local 26 would be a better choice with respect that that.

If I was to get into one of the lowest paying Locals, I would imagine life would be a lot harder for me because I wouldn't have as many dollars to work with as I would in a high paying Local. If you make a lot of money, you can work at saving as much of it as possible, but if you never made it start with, you can't save or work with what's not there as to have an advantage later on.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

telsa said:


> To the OP: You have no local connections.
> 
> Californian ECs have had a sour experience with 'imported talent' as BY FAR the most common event is that *the new guy leaves mighty quickly. *
> 
> *He's been under the illusion that East Coast // NEC Code cuts it in California*. Because of our earthquake problems we are as far away from the NEC as Chicago is -- what with their fire problem. (You'll discover that Chicago doesn't much want 'imported talent' either.)


I've heard that there are local, and state codes that supersede NEC, but that aside, I was not aware that NEC is applied any differently in one part of the country than the other.




telsa said:


> Since your interest is economic, I'd say your application is a dead letter. You've got TONS of local guys with connections baying to get in the door.
> 
> I had the ex-Secretary of Local 6 try and get me in. He couldn't... and he'd just stepped down. If the Secretary singing my praises was not enough to even get me a hearing... *what in the world do you think your chances are?*
> 
> ...


I didn't really know, which is why I'm glad I was able to ask the forum about it. Instead of having wasted years on it, I can cut my losses at having spent only a couple of days thinking it over.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

DeterminedSparky said:


> DC on the other hand is a relatively small area.


LU 26 work area is quite large.

Our employees come from as far east as Kent Island as far west as West Va. South 20 miles below Fredericksburg and north to the Pennsylvania State line.



> I remember when I traveled up there, I was able to get a room for the night in Fredericksburg, VA, which is about an hour south from DC for $50 a night. Once I got into DC, I couldn't find anything for less than $100, and what I did find was very low quality. So perhaps Local 26 would be a better choice with respect that that.


1-1/2 to 2 hours in rush hour 18.00 toll on the express lanes.



> If I was to get into one of the lowest paying Locals, I would imagine life would be a lot harder for me because I wouldn't have as many dollars to work with as I would in a high paying Local. If you make a lot of money, you can work at saving as much of it as possible, but if you never made it start with, you can't save or work with what's not there as to have an advantage later on.



You can make good money here, but we have traffic the least expensive places to live are at the fringe of the areas I noted above.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Further Analysis*

Currently, what I'm looking at is the wage data from almost 200 Locals. I have filtered the Locals according to their Book 2 Status outlook being "promising" as an indicator of their overall job prospects thinking that the Locals that are in the best shape have so much work that things don't just look good for their home members, but also their travelers too. From there, I calculated the cost of living and subtracted it from gross annual income as to be able to rank each Local by annual net income (and net per hr). This is what I found:



The San Francisco, CA Local has insane taxes that I had underestimated in earlier calculations. Apparently, those of you that said taxes would eat me alive there weren't kidding. When comparing it with the Jersey City Local, it would appear cost of living in San Francisco, CA is nearly double, which I thought was interesting.

I know we've already talked about Local 6, but does anyone know anything about how hard it is to get into the other top 10 ranked Locals that I've identified here?



Despite not being at the top of the list, I'm still going to keep Local 26 in mind. One of the things I like about the Washington, DC Local over the Jersey City Local is the Washington, DC Local starts their inside wireman apprentices out at $20/hr whereas the Jersey City Local starts apprentices out at $15/hr. The Washington, DC Local would also appear to offer a better finanical outlook for me than the Local closest to me, which would be the Charlotte, NC Local.



Although I think I am making progress towards getting a clearer picture of which Locals are the best to work for in terms of wages, I'm thinking I may want to dive deeper into the data and also look at the cost of food, gas, and car insurance to get a more complete picture, of which Locals would be the best to work for, but what I just posted is what I'm looking at so far.

*Data Sources*
_Wage Data_ - IBEW Job Board and JATC Websites
_Income Taxes_ - Income Tax Calculator at Smartasset.com
_Average Monthly Rent_ - Rentcafe.com and Rentjungle.com


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Assuming you are intending to try to get an apprenticeship, you would be employed in the local you join for the term of your apprenticeship.

Upon graduating you would be book 1 in your local.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Thinking About It...*

Looking at something you said earlier...



brian john said:


> You are in NC you can move north to Washington DC and get in the local day one under a residential program, *you will be working commercial* and if there is 1/2 a brain in your head you can be in the "A" program within a year.
> 
> DC is starving for help.


I'm a little bit confused. Is what you meant, if I went into Local 26, I'd be working residential for a year at the residential apprentice rate of around $10/hr, and then if competent, would have the opportunity to start working as a commercial apprentice at around $20/hr for the next five years before becoming a journeyman?



brian john said:


> Assuming you are intending to try to get an apprenticeship, you would be employed in the local you join for the term of your apprenticeship.
> 
> Upon graduating you would be book 1 in your local.


Right, and a question I am thinking over is how do I want the next five to six years to go over. If I'd be working up in Local 26 for a year at the $10/hr. residential apprentice rate, I'm thinking I might want to have saved up some money before making that move. In the event that my expenses could exceed my income for that first year, having a savings would be the only way I could see being able to survive in that case. 

I think I could beat the average rent in my previous calculations for the area, but even so, I'd imagine it would still be tight. Just throwing around numbers in my head, a residential apprentice's monthly take home pay at $10/hr after taxes would be probably around $1,200. Getting rent down to $1,000 a month, I think could be do-able, but even so, $200 isn't that much for everything else I'm thinking.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> I'm a little bit confused. Is what you meant, if I went into Local 26, I'd be working residential for a year at the residential apprentice rate of around $10/hr, and then if competent, would have the opportunity to start working as a commercial apprentice at around $20/hr for the next five years before becoming a journeyman?


You can apply for the apprenticeship and wait as you would with most locals, or you can sit on your tushie or work as a waiter or any other job that fits your skill set OR you can get into the local as an "R" helper which allows you to make money while you learn and wait for the "A" apprenticeship. This route generally increases your odds at the apprenticeship.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*Benefits of Being a Residential Helper in Local 26*



brian john said:


> You can apply for the apprenticeship and wait as you would with most locals, or you can sit on your tushie or work as a waiter or any other job that fits your skill set OR *you can get into the local as an "R" helper which allows you to make money while you learn and wait for the "A" apprenticeship. This route generally increases your odds at the apprenticeship.*


Can any of the hours in residential apprenticeship count towards towards hours in the commercial apprenticeship? Or would it be to just to get a better chance at getting into the commercial apprenticeship?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

DeterminedSparky said:


> Can any of the hours in residential apprenticeship count towards towards hours in the commercial apprenticeship? Or would it be to just to get a better chance at getting into the commercial apprenticeship?



It counts towards your local requirements for a journeyman's license, but not towards an apprenticeship.


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