# Cheap Timer switch with firemans switch



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Looking for some in-expensive DIGITAL timer switch options that have a fireman's switch. I've used everything from Intermatic timers, PLC's to Decora switches with added time delay relays depending on the job. I was hoping to find something cheap and simple that will have 7 day capability and a firemans switch that I can add to pump controls. This would be for situations where the customer doesn't want to spend a fortune on controls. It would also make the wiring simple for combination pump starters that have HOA switches.

Adding an off delay relay to a standard timer to allow the pump to run longer while other equipment cools down is somehow confusing to the customer as they have to set the time for 5 or 10 minutes before the time they want it off.:vs_laugh:


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Why can’t you add the switch to the timer? Relay and a key switch. 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MotoGP1199 said:


> This would be for situations where the customer *doesn't want to spend a fortune on controls.*
> 
> ...
> 
> Adding an off delay relay to a standard timer to allow the pump to run longer while other equipment cools down is *somehow confusing to the customer *as they have to set the time for 5 or 10 minutes before the time they want it off.:vs_laugh:


If they're going to be dumb, they better be rich.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

VELOCI3 said:


> Why can’t you add the switch to the timer? Relay and a key switch.


The cheaper digital timers from intermatic don't have an option(that I know of) to add a firmans switch. If you have any part numbers or links to items you think would work that would be great.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

MotoGP1199 said:


> The cheaper digital timers from intermatic don't have an option(that I know of) to add a firmans switch. If you have any part numbers or links to items you think would work that would be great.



Have the timer energize a relay that switches the load. The switch (any type you like) would energize the relay bypassing the clock. 

This also works great if you have a timer and photocell where you need the load to be off at some point during the night but switches on during the day if it gets too dark

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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Thats basically what I have done with a timer and a OFF delay relay. The problem was that the customer complained that they had to set the timer for 5 minutes before the pump would shut off and that was confusing. The digital intermatic timers that I have found don't have a firemans switch. The time delay relay would keep the pump on and when the timer shut off it would shut off the accessory. If I found a cheaper timer with a firemans switch, the time the timer would shut off would be the time the pump would shut off and the firemans switch would turn off the accessory 5 min earlier. 

Click PLC's are pretty cheap but by the time I add labor into programming, adding a PSU, enclosure, everything else, it still gets pricey.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Fireman’s switch is really for overriding hand/off/auto


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

VELOCI3 said:


> Fireman’s switch is really for overriding hand/off/auto
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I assume fireman's switch is a disconnect? Don't use that term here.

Googling that term references a switch to de-energize all conductors for first responders. I'm guessing that is not the true intent in this case? The OP is looking for an override?


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

joe-nwt said:


> I assume fireman's switch is a disconnect? Don't use that term here.
> 
> Googling that term references a switch to de-energize all conductors for first responders. I'm guessing that is not the true intent in this case? The OP is looking for an override?



Fireman’s switch is for operational purposes. Eg elevator recall and operation or smoke purge where the fireman’s switch is local or remote to turn on equipment to purge smoke from a building


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

There is a fireman's switch for intermatic timers but it doesn't solve your problems 

https://www.intermatic.com/en/pool-and-spa/specialty-controls/156t4042a 

I think there are probably pump controllers that will do what you want but they won't be real cheap.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

splatz said:


> There is a fireman's switch for intermatic timers but it doesn't solve your problems
> 
> https://www.intermatic.com/en/pool-and-spa/specialty-controls/156t4042a
> 
> I think there are probably pump controllers that will do what you want but they won't be real cheap.



Looks like that is just a switch. Probably a replacement part or an option for a pool control panel. 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

VELOCI3 said:


> Looks like that is just a switch. Probably a replacement part or an option for a pool control panel.


Yes it's just an accessory with a delay, the rotating disc trips operates it before the main switch, the contacts of the timer would be on the pump, the leads of the accessory switch on the burner or whatever. 

So it gives you the delay with a 24 hour switch but I don't think it would work with a 7-day timer unless you want a two and a half hour delay


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Why can’t you use an Intermaric pool/spa controller that is designed for this application?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Most of the pumps I'm using them on are between 20 and 50 horsepower. I have a handful of customers (8 pumps total) that want to add one to their existing combination pump starters or VFDs. The older intermedic time clocks that were mechanical would have a fireman switch option. That is their terminology. It would turn off the accessories switch 10 minutes before it rotated to the normal off trip dog. That way the accessory could turn off before the main pump would and allow the heaters or now UV systems to cool down. I was hoping there was a cheap digital option available that might even have a battery backup for the clock.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Most of the pumps I'm using them on are between 20 and 50 horsepower. I have a handful of customers (8 pumps total) that want to add one to their existing combination pump starters or VFDs. The older intermedic time clocks that were mechanical would have a fireman switch option. That is their terminology. It would turn off the accessories switch 10 minutes before it rotated to the normal off trip dog. That way the accessory could turn off before the main pump would and allow the heaters or now UV systems to cool down. I was hoping there was a cheap digital option available that might even have a battery backup for the clock.


I think if you have multiple customers that want the same thing, the PLC is the way to go. Even as a one-off it might be worth it but you can spread the cost to develop and maintain the code between eight customers. Then once you're over the hump and the initial expense is invested, you can add more customizations at low cost.


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