# Portable generator - 30A or 50A?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It really depends on your load.

Out of the hundreds of portable generator connections I've installed, only a few were 50A and I doubt they even needed it. 

Even if someone had a 10,000w generator, they most likely won't need more than the 7,200 watts that a 30A system will handle. And even 8,000w generators most likely won't be able to max out a 30A system (I think they all inflate their numbers).

Most people around here have natural gas for everything. But even those with electric stoves did just fine thru long storms (like Sandy) with 5,500w generators.

What are you looking to run?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What I said above is about my area. Most of my customers are all natural gas, some of them might have 1 large electric appliance like a water heater or a dryer or electric stove. Or maybe a well pump. And in most of those cases a 30A is still good. But if you have 2 or more of them, then you would want to think about your total load and a 50A might be necessary.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> It really depends on your load.
> 
> Out of the hundreds of portable generator connections I've installed, only a few were 50A and I doubt they even needed it.
> 
> ...


HAX - just the man I was looking for. 

Alright, I've got a 1500sqft house. Natural gas Heat. Everything else is electric. I'd like to continue on like business a usually during the hurricanes. Power rarely goes out the rest of the year. Cooking, washing clothes, hot water and possibly running the AC if the weather is still hot outside.

I don't mind turning certain 240 loads off while using the stove or dryer., bit I'd like the option of being able to use everything in whatever manner we choose.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> HAX - just the man I was looking for.
> 
> Alright, I've got a 1500sqft house. Natural gas Heat. Everything else is electric. I'd like to continue on like business a usually during the hurricanes. Power rarely goes out the rest of the year. Cooking, washing clothes, hot water and possibly running the AC if the weather is still hot outside.
> 
> I don't mind turning certain 240 loads off while using the stove or dryer., bit I'd like the option of being able to use everything in whatever manner we choose.


Central AC?

By what you describe, I think you're one of the people who might need a bigger generator. The 50A portable system would be best for you to install.

At the point that you are describing (being able to use everything if you choose), you may be better off with a small standby system, like one of those 11Kw's. 

It runs on natural gas, it turns on automatically, and it powers everything. You can do most of the work yourself, and maybe trade work with a plumber for the gas piping. In the end the price difference won't be as much as a normal homeowner.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Central AC?
> 
> By what you describe, I think you're one of the people who might need a bigger generator. The 50A portable system would be best for you to install.
> 
> ...


First of all, thanks. 👍

Second, your not the first guy who's told me that if you go over a small 30amp, you might as well look at a small standby because of the jump in price. But, I just don't have it in my budget to purchase a standby. 

Does a smaller 30amp handle most households throughout a week without power? Like cooking, clothes, HVAC, hot water and all??


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

And yes, central AC. Who the HECK doesn't have that?!!!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> First of all, thanks. ������
> 
> Second, your not the first guy who's told me that if you go over a small 30amp, you might as well look at a small standby because of the jump in price. But, I just don't have it in my budget to purchase a standby.


I see. If a standby is not in the cards, then a portable system will still work.



> And yes, central AC. Who the HECK doesn't have that?!!!


 In my area many people don't since the houses are all old and retrofitting central AC is never as good as new and very expensive. 



MHElectric said:


> Does a smaller 30amp handle most households throughout a week without power? Like cooking, clothes, HVAC, hot water and all??


I have had customers with pretty big houses and 5,500w generators be able to live like normal, even some with electric stoves or water heaters. But if they have both, then it might be an issue.

The biggest problem most people have is in the morning if they live like normal and have a bunch of people using the toaster, coffee maker, microwave, hair dryers, curling irons, etc. But as long as they rotate those things, they should be ok.

You will not be able to run your central AC on a generator of this size, so just forget that :biggrin: But you can have 1 window unit, I recommend that to my customers, they can get one for $150 and use it in the master bedroom or living room during an outage. They can run 2 of them at night when there is little other usage going on.

I would recommend you getting the max size generator for 30A, 7,500-8,000 watts. And I would also recommend running #6 aluminum SER cable from the panel to the inlet. This way if you have to step up to 50A you won't have to run a new feeder. That 50A SER cable isn't much more than the 10-3 romex that you would use for 30A anyway.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The Generac GP8000E is a great generator for $999. WronGun also sells them which confirms my own experiences.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

I have a 30a inlet on my house and it is all electric including heat. We can run everything, we just can't run everything simultaneously. So it you want to take a shower before bed, turn the heater breakers off, turn the well pump breaker on, take your shower, turn the well pump back off, heaters back on. In the morning, turn the heaters off, and then turn the water heater back on to get that back up to temp, turn that off, turn well back on for a morning shower.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Good looking out HAX. 

I know you've been installing these babies for a while Have you made a small fortune and nailed this market to the wall?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Good looking out HAX.
> 
> I know you've been installing these babies for a while Have you made a small fortune and nailed this market to the wall?


I like portable generator connections because most people think of them as an amazing thing, so you can charge a premium. 

Unfortunately I am not getting calls for them like I used to. But those lost calls have been replaced with calls for car chargers, which are just as good.

How is business with you? We miss your insightful business posts here.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> The Generac GP8000E is a great generator for $999. WronGun also sells them which confirms my own experiences.


Oh my gosh dude! It looks like the price difference between the GP8000E and the XG10000E is $2000!!!! That's a huge jump!


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I like portable generator connections because most people think of them as an amazing thing, so you can charge a premium.
> 
> Unfortunately I am not getting calls for them like I used to. But those lost calls have been replaced with calls for car chargers, which are just as good.
> 
> How is business with you? We miss your insightful business posts here.



:thumbsup: I hope you make it big buddy. Small repetitive installs like that have always been my favorite type of work


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

For the portable generators, keep in mind the gasoline consumption. Also check the maximum motor load that can be installed on the generator. Check the run time of the generator. Some are continuous some you have to shut down every now and then to cool. If you have a three ton central AC system then that will be out of the realm of a portable unit and you will have to go with the stand by system. Check the spec sheets before you buy one. As Hack said, tell the people to get a small window unit and plug it in if they go the portable route.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

My situation is a little different, so I hope you don’t mind me chiming in. I have all gas appliances. My water heater is a direct vent. So it vents out the side wall with double wall pipe, and is fairly efficient, but it does have a standing pilot. I made the choice to stick with a standing pilot, because at the time I didn’t have a generator, and I wanted to have hot water if the power went out. 

I forget the exact Generator size I bought , but it’s around a 7,000 KW. Maybe 7,200? I have no problem running the house on it. I usually only run one AC. I don’t have any meters on it, and I never bothered putting an Amprobe on it. 

My wish list is a small 2,000 Watt Honda. I could get by with that. Nice and quiet. Only break out with the big one if I want to run AC and do laundry at the same time. My power was out a few weeks ago for about 12 hours. Mostly over night. I had to fire up that big loud thing in the morning just to get the fridge temperature back down and make a cup of coffee while I made my lunch. 

I think the beauty of the portable is being able to have different sizes for your needs. I’m sure you could also get by, and save fuel by having a 2,000 to go along with a large one when needed.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

That’s an excellent idea, it’s what I recommend to my customers who have lots of outages in their area.

The small inverter generator can run all night without needing to be refilled, and it’s perfect for televisions and some lights and the refrigerator and even keeping the natural gas heat going in most situations.

Then during the day they can plug-in the larger generator for bigger things like maybe a well pump or water heater or just more general activities going on.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

At my last house, I had a XG8000E on an interlock that covered the house and the inlaw apartment. I didn't use the AC, laundry, electric water heater (separately metered, or the electric ranges. Ran everything else. The window shaker idea isn't a bad way to go if you have individual bedroom circuits. Might run with the 10k portable. We were on town water so no well. Where we are now, I have a 12kw Briggs on selected circuits. Runs enough to keep us warm and the lights on, well running, etc. More than a few ways to go with this.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

.... nuthin


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I think the part about generators that confuses me is knowing what size generator for the each job.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> I think the part about generators that confuses me is knowing what size generator for the each job.


That usually goes with budget


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I hooked up 3 50 amp inlets this summer, the customers had XG10000's.  They are massive and heavy generators, picture a standby but on a cart. It was overkill but it's what the customer wanted.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> And yes, central AC. Who the HECK doesn't have that?!!!


Basically every house in the northeast that's over 20 years old. When I started in the trade in '97 new houses in the bottom end of the market (starters) didn't even have it installed. Window shakers rule here. 

This is NYC specific, but it generally applies:





Retrofitting older houses with ductwork is generally expensive, or impossible. Therefore the mini-split is getting extremely popular if someone opts for a central system.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> That’s an excellent idea, it’s what I recommend to my customers who have lots of outages in their area.
> 
> The small inverter generator can run all night without needing to be refilled, and it’s perfect for televisions and some lights and the refrigerator and even keeping the natural gas heat going in most situations.


I bought a small inverter for those very reasons. :thumbup:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

In my area, the 5,500-7,500 is very common and adequate for most houses, since natural gas is very common for appliances and heating. Houses in more rural areas without NG use oil and propane for heating and have a well but that size is still more than adequate. I generally discourage people from larger generators because of the unwieldy size and higher fuel consumption, and school them on how to do load management. 

A 50 amp is not necessary in the majority of circumstances.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> In my area, the 5,500-7,500 is very common and adequate for most houses, since natural gas is very common for appliances and heating. Houses in more rural areas without NG use oil and propane for heating and have a well but that size is still more than adequate. I generally discourage people from larger generators because of the unwieldy size and higher fuel consumption, and school them on how to do load management.
> 
> A 50 amp is not necessary in the majority of circumstances.


When would that 50amp be necessary then? What tips the scale?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> When would that 50amp be necessary then? What tips the scale?


Extraordinary circumstances, like an all electric house (including heat) or someone who must have a/c no matter what. But generally speaking, those kinds of people can afford a standby.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

MHElectric said:


> When would that 50amp be necessary then? What tips the scale?


 I would think starting a central A/C unit, although I don't have those numbers memorized to be sure.


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

samgregger said:


> I have a 30a inlet on my house and it is all electric including heat. We can run everything, we just can't run everything simultaneously. So it you want to take a shower before bed, turn the heater breakers off, turn the well pump breaker on, take your shower, turn the well pump back off, heaters back on. In the morning, turn the heaters off, and then turn the water heater back on to get that back up to temp, turn that off, turn well back on for a morning shower.


Me too.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

MTW said:


> Basically every house in the northeast that's over 20 years old. When I started in the trade in '97 new houses in the bottom end of the market (starters) didn't even have it installed. Window shakers rule here.
> 
> This is NYC specific, but it generally applies:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwk_dH-uk5c
> ...


St. Louis Cit-ay is mostly built before 1940 and few of them had forced air heat. Co-worker of mine finely put in central heat/ac. Had 11 window units of different sizes and ages. I took the smallest newest one for my garage. My house is an exception, built in 1959 always had A/C.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Average house will run on a 5k - 7.5k genny. I use a cheap harbor freight 7k for my house. Runs 2 fridges, Oil Furnace, Oil water heater, well pump and most of the lights & outlets in my small house. Not enough capacity to run the A/C, electric dryer, or electric cooking loads. Could get away with running a single burner on the stove if necessary. 
The genny i usually recommend to my customers is this one:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...l-fuel-portable-generator-with-electric-start 
Fairly cheap, runs on propane if you want. I'd buy one of these for myself if I didn't already own another one.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MHElectric said:


> This is definitely a DIY question! :vs_laugh:
> 
> I've been debating for several years on putting a generator connection at my house and it looks like I need to finally go ahead with it. My big question is what's the advantage of having a 50amp inlet over a 30amp? I have 6 in my house and one is on oxygen. We lose power only when the hurricane's come around.
> 
> ...



Here's another thought, just an idea I have wondered about. 



What if you installed a solar battery bank or tesla wallpack for backup power, and an inlet for a small portable to use basically as a battery charger? The portable would be doing what the solar array normally does. 



I am thinking this way the lights, 120V receptacles, and furnace are covered, even before I get there to fire up the generator, then they can run the generator as needed to keep the battery charged.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I haven’t even looked into battery systems like that, but my assumption is that they would be extremely expensive if they were able to put out enough power to compete with a large generator that he needs to be able to run what he wants.

Have you looked into the pricing?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I heat with fuel oil with a boiler. Loss of power in the winter could mean frozen busted pipes. I have a 2000 watt WEN generator that sips fuel and is very quiet. All I plan to power is the furnace, fridge and a few lights. During a big power outage all the gas stations will be closed so fuel consumption is a priority up here. A big generator is useless without fuel.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

splatz said:


> Here's another thought, just an idea I have wondered about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been told that the cheapest Tesla wall pack is around $8000. This is second hand knowledge, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. But that's a lot of money, especially for new technology that may have lots of problems that show up later on


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have customer that wants to try the Tesla battery packs. Filled out the online thing for them and they never responded. I’ll try again because I’d like to try one of these out. I don’t want someone else coming on to my job.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I haven’t even looked into battery systems like that, but my assumption is that they would be extremely expensive if they were able to put out enough power to compete with a large generator that he needs to be able to run what he wants.
> 
> Have you looked into the pricing?





MHElectric said:


> I've been told that the cheapest Tesla wall pack is around $8000. This is second hand knowledge, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. But that's a lot of money, especially for new technology that may have lots of problems that show up later on



OOF I thought they were a lot less. Yeah at that price the cost will be prohibitive.


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