# What was the point?



## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Then recruit some more union guys to the forum. :thumbsup:


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> You open a new area for "Union Topics", have two good debates going (one with 2288 views the other with 879) and then you close them. Yeah that makes sense.
> 
> Union guys are so out numbered on here it isn't funny.


You union guys were not outnumbered you were over opinionated.

*Murphy’s Law on Combat* (think about it)

..Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

Carry On!


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

chenley said:


> Then recruit some more union guys to the forum. :thumbsup:


That's been done already.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> You open a new area for "Union Topics", have two good debates going (one with 2288 views the other with 879) and then you close them. Yeah that makes sense.
> 
> Union guys are so out numbered on here it isn't funny.


To call these threads "debates" is generous..."brawls" or "street fights" would be a more appropriate choice of words. As far as anyone being outnumbered, there seem to be an equal number of hardcore opponents on both sides of these threads, and always the same ones. 

I get a quite a charge out of watching a group of usually articulate, intelligent individuals call each other names and beat their chests with their fists. The ability that both sides have to repeat themselves ad nauseum is an inspiration to me on a personal level...I have never been able to last more than five or six good, hard smacks with my head against a brick wall before I pass out. :wallbash: 

There is nothing wrong with debating an issue or arguing your sides position, the problems start when we stop acting like adults and professionals and allow things to become personal.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> Union guys are so out numbered on here it isn't funny.


So you counter that by turning every thread into a union debate? Sorry, that's not gonna fly.

And you call those two thread "good debates"??? Yeah right!
The only reason they had so many views is because it's like slowing down to see a car wreck. You just have t look. And in turn that is taking traffic from other areas of the site. 
Also it is creating WAY more animosity that I could have anticipated when I asked Nathan to open this section.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

last time i checked, there was no requirement to read any particular thread on this site...so, as is common in this country, we've taken a "even though i don't have to deal with it, i don't like it, so make it go away" attitude towards it...

no offense to brian john, but wth was that all about? if you don't want to get involved, or read, or even visit the site, np...but christ, what is this high school?

personally, my life moves on regardless...but it's annoying to see people gripe about something they not only don't want to deal with, but in this particular case don't have to deal with...it's like your neighbor coming over, looking in your window, then complaining that you have a black couch instead of a white couch...wtf?

if it really bothers the masses, set it up like the political forum...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

oldman said:


> last time i checked, there was no requirement to read any particular thread on this site...so, as is common in this country, we've taken a "even though i don't have to deal with it, i don't like it, so make it go away" attitude towards it...
> 
> no offense to brian john, but wth was that all about? if you don't want to get involved, or read, or even visit the site, np...but christ, what is this high school?
> 
> ...


 
I agree and was wondering the same thing about Brian, I just looked over the posts and didn't see any personal attacks, Brian didn't seem very involved. It even looked civil between you and LawnGuy.

oldman 27LawnGuyLandSparky 12Celtic 11randomkiller 11MechanicalDVR 8wirehaired 6brian john 6

This was the post make up for guys over 5.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

While I generally agree with you Oldman I don't here.

You have to know this place before certain members came along. This was THE best site for electricians on the web. Still is IMO.
Since all this union debates started folks have been complaining about it and the general atmosphere of the site has gone downhill.

You are correct, Brian does not have to look at these threads. BUT,...when SO many other threads are turned into union debates when there was no intention of it IS annoying. Being pro or con something is fine. Just don't push your agenda every time you open your mouth (that is a hypothetical "you").
And not the thing with this new section, which I pushed for the help keep things civil, has borderline backfired. It seems there is even more and worse debate over the SAME OLD BS! Over and over and over. 
Like Mountain said, don't you guys get tired of banging your head against the wall???

I liken it to the Jehova's Witnesses. Every time you see one of them they are trying to convert you. Eventually the politeness wears off and you tell them to getTF out of your face.


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> I agree and was wondering the same thing about Brian, I just looked over the posts and didn't see any personal attacks, Brian didn't seem very involved. It even looked civil between you and LawnGuy.
> 
> oldman 27LawnGuyLandSparky 12Celtic 11randomkiller 11MechanicalDVR 8wirehaired 6brian john 6
> 
> This was the post make up for guys over 5.


You are not looking at the general perception of the treads. It’s a “union verses nonunion” confrontation with some very opinionated voices on both sides.

The general confrontational tone of the dialog on the threads just reinforced my perceptions and moved my stand on unions from a moderate to a more nonunion position. The same attitudes that I disliked years ago I see have not changed and that I was too optimistic in thinking that there would be a change over time. Oh well…. time for me to move on.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

speedy,

like i said, doesn't matter...not my site...but mostly i like playing devils advocate and stirring the pot...oh well


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

My idea was a private forum for union members only whare issues could be discussed.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

joeyuk said:


> My idea was a private forum for union members only whare issues could be discussed.


I'm sure there are other closed forums where "union members" can discuss the issues. This is an open forum.
Doesn't the IBEW web site have a forum?


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

oldman said:


> speedy,
> 
> like i said, doesn't matter...not my site...but mostly i like playing devils advocate and stirring the pot...oh well


Oh, don't stir the pot, it makes the lines between proper and arrogant blur.


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> I'm sure there are other closed forums where "union members" can discuss the issues. This is an open forum.
> Doesn't the IBEW web site have a forum?


 I don't know. I was addressing the hostility on certain issues on this forum.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Relax Joe, let's not get the "regular" guys shorts in a bunch.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Random, up until recently I considered YOU one of the regular guys. 
But you seem to want to distance yourself from everyone except your local union buddies. It's like Local 3 against everyone else.

These discussions of the past few months have only made things more tense. 
I know that's how it is in your real world but you do not have to bring that here. 

We've always had a good percentage of union guys here and never had this kind of animosity before.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Random, up until recently I considered YOU one of the regular guys.
> But you seem to want to distance yourself from everyone except your local union buddies. It's like Local 3 against everyone else.
> 
> These discussions of the past few months have only made things more tense.
> ...


Well other than one very outspoken Guy, I feel we take more crap and comments than any of us give out. It gets hard to see a brother take so much flak all the time and not get into it. Look back at some of the "heated" posts and see who's throwing more.


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> I'm sure there are other closed forums where "union members" can discuss the issues. This is an open forum.
> Doesn't the IBEW web site have a forum?


Your right. :thumbup:

http://eibew.org/Cool_IBEW_Sites.html


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Random, you ask what was the point?
Well, with permission from a member, here is part of one of several PM's I have been getting. This is aside from the publicly posted disdain for these threads.
All I can say is this was NOT the point of this forum:

This is verbatim and not edited other than to remove text before and after the quote to keep the member anonymous


> .......This BS is out of hand IMO.
> I don't come here as much as I used to, because I am sick and tired of every discussion turning into a union debate.
> 
> I agree that this is one of the best sites around for electricians, and have enjoyed it greatly.
> ...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> I liken it to the Jehova's Witnesses. Every time you see one of them they are trying to convert you. Eventually the politeness wears off and you tell them to getTF out of your face.


Actually Petey, it's like going out of your way to start a conversation with a known Jehovah, then getting pissed that they talk about religion..



randomkiller said:


> Well other than one very outspoken Guy, I feel we take more crap and comments than any of us give out. It gets hard to see a brother take so much flak all the time and not get into it. Look back at some of the "heated" posts and see who's throwing more.


Random, don't be a martyr...it's been lots of generalizations tossed from both sides..LOL



Speedy Petey said:


> Random, you ask what was the point?
> Well, with permission from a member, here is part of one of several PM's I have been getting. This is aside from the publicly posted disdain for these threads.
> All I can say is this was NOT the point of this forum:
> 
> This is verbatim and not edited other than to remove text before and after the quote to keep the member anonymous


since the Union Topics was started, what other thread has turned down that path? maybe some of the "How much should I get paid" questions...but should that information not be given? the member who sent that PM is FOS...he's the one who is looking in the window, without being asked to, then complains about the color of the couches...

didn't realize there were so many liberals on this site...


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

oldman said:


> since the Union Topics was started, what other thread has turned down that path? maybe some of the "How much should I get paid" questions...but should that information not be given?


If you got around more and didn't concentrate only on the contentious topics you'd see. Like the safety topics for instance.
Your last 50+ posts have been in the union forum. And that's only as long as this forum has been in place. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you in theory about the whole union thing, but that is not the point. 

If you want every thread you are involved in to be an argument I'm sure that there is a place you can go for that.

If you want to talk about the electrical trade THIS is the place!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> If you got around more and didn't concentrate only on the contentious topics you'd see. Like the safety topics for instance.
> Your last 50+ posts have been in the union forum. And that's only as long as this forum has been in place.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I agree with you in theory about the whole union thing, but that is not the point.
> ...


you might be right...i avoid most other posts because, well...let's just say that they are more useful to others...

unfortunately, i think to not discuss it is wrong...i agree that if threads like that turn into a pissing contest, it get's old...take a thread on safety for example...it's useful to know what the unions provide/require....might help a small open shop learn something new....but it should be in an informative manner, not a derogatory manner...if that's the case, i agree with you...


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Petey,
Extend my apologies to the site owner for anything I contributed to this mess. I lurked for a long while until some comments got the best of me. That's completely my fault. I tried to be civil and I don't think I resorted to any of the "name calling" you mentioned. But the bottom line is I should have walked away from the subject.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

don't be sorry amptech...you simply gave your point of view and spoke of your experiences...they just happened to be contrary to someone elses...that's not a bad thing...


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

What oldman said. :thumbsup:


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## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm up to my eyeballs with this stuff. I'm beginning to come here less on account of it. That members are leaving who provide great information on facets of the trade some folks never see is pretty telling - it's out of hand

I think there's a simple answer. Keep the union vs non union stuff in this forum. Anybody that runs it over (from either side) into the other forums gets banned for a (week-month, whatever) and a second offense get you booted permanently.

If some of you folks gotta behave like kids in how you choose do deal with other folks how about doing it with PMs?


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

No one puts a gun to anyone's head and tells them they have to view or read any thread. Coming here and picking what to read is up to the individual. Funny all the most disputed threads gets the most views and I disagree it's like an accident as previously stated.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

itsunclebill said:


> I'm up to my eyeballs with this stuff. I'm beginning to come here less on account of it. That members are leaving who provide great information on facets of the trade some folks never see is pretty telling - it's out of hand


Well don't worry Unc. Things are changing. :thumbsup:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i agree with keeping the knife throwing in the proper section...however, i don't agree with tossing the issue out of all other threads...i think there is valuable information to be gleaned from knowing how all shops do things (open and closed)....but should someone turn it into a pissing match, alert the mod, delete the post and do what you wish with the poster...it's not that difficult.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

You think this forum is bad, check out the forum at line-man.com.

Reading over there, I get the impression they hate each other more than the narrowbacks.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

IVE made no comments untill now but I (couldnt resist):laughing: 

What did the narrowback say to the lineman?



YOU know how to tell the differnce between a mule and a lineman 
YOU harness the mule up
THE lineman harnesses it selfe up


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

In our county we have 2 PoCos. One is union and the other is a non-union REMC. For years they argued about which was the best line crew. One day the line supers from both utilities had heard enough and set up a contest. Each crew was in the process of setting poles down different stretches of road. They agreed to start the next day at 7:00AM and at 4:00PM they would see which crew had set the most poles. 4:00 rolled around and both crews met at a neutral site to report their progress. The union crew had set 22 poles. The REMC crew had only set 10. But the REMC guys claimed the union crew had cheated. They left 30' of their poles sticking out of the ground. 
This is only a joke!!!!!!! Please don't anybody get mad.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

WAY I heard that joke it was the italian crew and the polish crew


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

cmec said:


> WAY I heard that joke it was the italian crew and the polish crew


What are you trying to say, the Italians are more used to burying things? 

If some "regular" guys here weren't so sensitive:

What are you trying to say, the Italians are used to burying non-union guys?


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

"What are you trying to say, the Italians are used to burying non-union guys?"
:laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I too think the content at electrician talk has been going down hill.


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

I was away for a month. When I came back it was as though strangers had moved in to my house.

I am sticking around for a while to see if they move on - otherwise I shall be relocating further down the street,

Frank


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I too think the content at electrician talk has been going down hill.


Being as we are all working men here for the most part and it is our questions and statements being typed out maybe the content is kind of following the US economy.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> You think this forum is bad, check out the forum at line-man.com.
> 
> Reading over there, I get the impression they hate each other more than the narrowbacks.


Re: line-man.com
Holy smokes, how do you spell vituperative? Comparatively speaking, we narrowbacks are almost in love!

Frank,
My mother had a saying (most liklely purloined) "I don't know the way to success, but I do know the way to failure: try to please everyone". 

I do not like some of what I read here, and some members do not care for my posts. However, I believe that this forum is a great resource.

Please don't give up on us blokes . . .

Best Wishes Everyone


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

yep:no:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

rewire said:


> yep:no:


 Ok??


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Ok??


"Yeah, eh?" 

Dip**** talk:no:


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