# My first solar job.



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Really nice job.. :thumbsup:

I would love to see the roofers replace the roof in a few years..


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd like to see it stand up to a few hard winters. I can't see it lasting with feet of snow on it. What happens when you have to shovel your roof because the snow load is to high.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> I'd like to see it stand up to a few hard winters. I can't see it lasting with feet of snow on it. What happens when you have to shovel your roof because the snow load is to high.


It's gotten through this winter so far. I don't know about the roof weight, but if you're referring to the solar panels, they melt the snow at a rather rapid pace. Usually only a few inches of the panel were exposed after it snowed, but that was enough to draw heat from the sun and warm up the rest of the panel, causing the collected snow to eventually slide off all at once like a mini avalanche.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

B4T said:


> Really nice job.. :thumbsup:
> 
> I would love to see the roofers replace the roof in a few years..


When the roof is bad in 20-30 years, the panels will need to be replaced as well....:laughing:....that will be quite expensive.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

They should really think about making solar roof panels that are the roof an can be replaced in sections.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> They should really think about making solar roof panels that are the roof an can be replaced in sections.


I believe they're called solar shingles, (if you weren't already aware), but I have no idea how practical they are.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

How big is that system kW wise and what kind of building is this? If that was a LEED certified office space and had high-efficiency HVAC, I'm wondering if that many panels would carry it.

Does each string of panels have it's own TVSS? What's inside the bigger combiners?

-John


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I believe they're called solar shingles, (if you weren't already aware), but I have no idea how practical they are.


 
Is any of this "practical"

The payback is usually too long to make it economic sense to invest in this equipment.

I am happy to do anything if they are willing to pay for it though.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Big John said:


> How big is that system kW wise and what kind of building is this? If that was a LEED certified office space and had high-efficiency HVAC, I'm wondering if that many panels would carry it.
> 
> Does each string of panels have it's own TVSS? What's inside the bigger combiners?
> 
> -John


I'll try to get you some answers tomorrow. I've only been on the job for about a month and only been running pipe and mounting panels. It should be wrapping up in the next week (I've been told).

The building is a manufacturer of ISO containers that they use for shipping of goods, or as temporary dwellings. What is a TVSS?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> What is a TVSS?


I believe it's Transient Voltage Surge Suppression

I might be wrong


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> The building is a manufacturer of ISO containers that they use for shipping of goods, or as temporary dwellings. What is a TVSS?


 Ah, nuts. If it's a factory, then this probably doesn't even begin to carry their service. 

Lou got it, TVSS is surge protection for the panels. I could be wrong but it looks like that's what the yellow block is in that combiner photo. Seems like you've got a lot of them, though.

-John


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## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

Solar is the future, no matter what you guys want to think! First Solar's cost to produce panels is about 75 cents a watt and is always going down. So an average system of 5 KW would currently cost First Solar $3750 to produce. The biggest companies in the world are now involved in the race to make the most efficient and cheapest panels possible. It is only a matter of time guys. In 10 years, I bet it will be required to have panels on new construction in the SW and California. In 20 they will be everywhere! I helped build a 48 MW (775,000 panel) installation last year called Copper Mountain. My wife is working on solar covered parking structures at many local parks. I have many buddies installing 50KW systems on practically every school. Solars time is coming very soon. You wouldn't believe the amount of power these panels put out even an hour after sunset or on overcast days. I didn't!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

surfbh said:


> Solar is the future, no matter what you guys want to think!


 I sincerely hope you're right, because if that's true we can get to a point where we can cover roofs in it. Add local wind farms, a beefed up transmission grid, and increased appliance efficiency standards, and we might get to a point where communities have an almost net-zero utility consumption.

My problem with it right now is that a lot of the installs have about a 30% efficiency. There are a lot of of other green generation methods that work a hell of a lot better, but people latch onto photovoltaic because it's trendy. Though I do also understand that market forces will drive improvement in solar as demand increases, so maybe I should just shut up and wait for it.

-John


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> It's gotten through this winter so far. I don't know about the roof weight, but if you're referring to the solar panels, they melt the snow at a rather rapid pace. Usually only a few inches of the panel were exposed after it snowed, but that was enough to draw heat from the sun and warm up the rest of the panel, causing the collected snow to eventually slide off all at once like a mini avalanche.


Did a solar system years ago and the solar panels were clean of ice and or snow almost immediately, compared to the rest of the roof.

I asked about the added weight and life of the roof. I was told all this was figured into the design.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

surfbh said:


> Solar is the future, didn't!



That coupled with the superconductors, and cars with carburetors that get 150 miles per gallon we see us into the future of flying cars.:laughing:

Hardly ever hear about superconductors these days, I am sure research is progressing but at one time it was all the news.

Or hydrogen cells that were to take over the world.

Superconductors

http://www.superconductors.org/atypical.htm

hydrogen cells

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-reasons-to-push-for-hydrogen/article1953460/


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> ...Hardly ever hear about superconductors these days, I am sure research is progressing but at one time it was all the news.
> 
> Or hydrogen cells that were to take over the world....


 Remember when bio-fuels from corn were going to save us all? 

-John


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## Al13Cu29 (Nov 2, 2010)

brian john said:


> That coupled with the superconductors, and cars with carburetors that get 150 miles per gallon we see us into the future of flying cars.:laughing:


I'm still wanting for the personal jetpack.


The sciencest from all the different areas need to get together and share their findings. They may then create something to take us to the next level.

Sent from my cellphone using a very tiny keyboard.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> I'll try to get you some answers tomorrow. I've only been on the job for about a month and only been running pipe and mounting panels. It should be wrapping up in the next week (I've been told).
> 
> The building is a manufacturer of ISO containers that they use for shipping of goods, or as temporary dwellings. What is a TVSS?


So what did you figure the ambient temps are around the 1" and 1 1/2" emt's? I was wondering for wire ampacity, I was thinking the temps up there are going to be outrageous in the height of summer. Is there any special instructions for the install or just spec to meet code? Did you get it as a package? Or piece everything together and design the system?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I posted with a certain amount of sarcasm. We need research, into many avenues of future power, otherwise how will we know what is feasible and what isn't.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

You did nice lining up all the EMT going into the boxes.


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## ELECBEEMATT (Mar 25, 2011)

snow doesnt melt fast enough.....any snow fall over 1 foot makes the panels useless until it melts and if there are back to back storms like we had in new york and new jersey this past year they need to be shoveled off


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

tates1882 said:


> So what did you figure the ambient temps are around the 1" and 1 1/2" emt's? I was wondering for wire ampacity, I was thinking the temps up there are going to be outrageous in the height of summer. Is there any special instructions for the install or just spec to meet code? Did you get it as a package? Or piece everything together and design the system?


Damn, I forgot to ask about the kwh. I'm pretty sure that wire was rated for 90C. I can't imagine they would design such a large system and goof on the temperature rating.

The rails the panels are mounted to were pieced together, though I heard they make pre-made rails that would make the install much faster. Honestly, as far as installing the panels, it's pretty brainless. Well, I should say, once you do a few on such a large install, it's as repetitious as a production line. Ice and snow on a slick rubber roof definitely made things interesting...

I did take a picture of the inside of the sub-combiners, just haven't gotten around to posting it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Solar is great and probably will power the future, but I fear we are on the down hill side of the oil curve, and if we don't replace it soon, we are headed back to the stone age.

The state of solar today isn't sufficient to provide all the energy used in America. The ONLY other source of energy that we have available immediately that can provide energy in the quantities needed to sustain our way of life is nuclear.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Solar is great and probably will power the future, but I fear we are on the down hill side of the oil curve, and if we don't replace it soon, we are headed back to the stone age.
> 
> The state of solar today isn't sufficient to provide all the energy used in America. The ONLY other source of energy that we have available immediately that can provide energy in the quantities needed to sustain our way of life is nuclear.


Sounds like you are saying we are coming up on an energy shortage. If so, I agree. It will smack us hard in the face when the world's demand for oil out paces the ability to get it out of the ground. Once that happens, the price of oil should make alternatives more cost effective (because oil cost so much).


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



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I forgot I had these on my camera. The top picture is what the inside of the sub combiner looks like. It was the most complete installation at the time of the picture.

The 2nd and 3rd picture were connected, all I can figure is that they would communicate the status of the system.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> The 2nd and 3rd picture were connected, all I can figure is that they would communicate the status of the system.


Looks to me like a hall effect current transducer on the feeds from the smaller combiners connected to a I/O module. That module will probably talk to a logger, building automation system, or something similar over RS-485. 

Although I must say the workmanship on the connections on the sensors and the I/O module suck, way too much wire showing at the terminals. And using 2 wire cable and using the shield drain as the 24 VDC negative is pretty lame IMO. I would be most upset if one of my guys did instrument work like that.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> I would be most upset if one of my guys did instrument work like that.


What if the guy was the engineer/investor of the project?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> What if the guy was the *engineer*...


:lol: Figures


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## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> What if the guy was the engineer/investor of the project?


Hasnt he heard of bootlace ferrules ???

Frank


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