# Demarc to Data Cabinet



## Kunolop (Feb 9, 2013)

We only do small data work, and mainly sub out the data work. I took on a small project with 20 drops in it where the data cabinet is on another floor from the demarc. I always figured that the service provider connected did this cabling and connection because I never did it before working for other companies. We were sent a PCN to perform this work, and all is really know is I need to run a 25pair cable in conduit from the demarc to the data rack and install a cross connection. Can someone maybe give me a rundown of this install and maybe some pointers or even a link that describes what exactly is required. Thanks.


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## Stuff (Oct 14, 2012)

Network data (cat5e) or something else? 
First - "normal" data drops get 4 pair each so a 25 pair cable only supports 6 drops.
Assume client wants 24 port patch panel at both ends.
From wording you supply patch cables at each end.
Any requirements for testing or certification?

If demarc then are you doing circuit extensions? BIX blocks on each end since you are north of the border.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

What type of demark?


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

sounds like phone, if it's 25 pair.


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## mikeylikesit5805 (Apr 3, 2012)

I think jeff has the right idea.


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## candulj (Feb 9, 2014)

*What does PCN mean?*

Sorry I'm reading this thread and do not know what PCN means? Anyone? Thx.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Stuff said:


> Network data (cat5e) or something else?
> First - "normal" data drops get 4 pair each so a 25 pair cable only supports 6 drops.
> Assume client wants 24 port patch panel at both ends.
> From wording you supply patch cables at each end.
> ...


I am assuming he is extending the phone cabling to the equipment room.
Here we typically use a 110 block


Then the modem would be connected between the 110 and the data rack.

PCN stands for Price Change Notice. It's part of the process to add or delete work and prices to the contract.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

candulj said:


> Sorry I'm reading this thread and do not know what PCN means? Anyone? Thx.


Welcome to the forum....


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

wcord said:


> I am assuming he is extending the phone cabling to the equipment room.
> Here we typically use a 110 block
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a fan of 110 blocks. I would use a 66 block, much more durable and if you don't have the proper tool it can still be terminated with a screwdriver or the wire stripped and wrapped around the lugs (not that I've ever done that :whistling2.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

I dont understand what a cross connection is? We commonly use Krone Blocks here, Id do a 25pr box at the demarc then just put a 50pt voice panel at the rack.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Ty Wrapp said:


> I'm not a fan of 110 blocks. I would use a 66 block, much more durable and if you don't have the proper tool it can still be terminated with a screwdriver or the wire stripped and wrapped around the lugs (not that I've ever done that :whistling2.


I think the BIX block and 66 block are the same type of terminal.
A small knife also would seem to work well if need be to push the wire down on the terminal, though that would never happen either:whistling2:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

wcord said:


> I think the BIX block and 66 block are the same type of terminal.
> A small knife also would seem to work well if need be to push the wire down on the terminal, though that would never happen either:whistling2:


The irwin slim blades are good.


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

wcord said:


> I think the BIX block and 66 block are the same type of terminal.
> A small knife also would seem to work well if need be to push the wire down on the terminal, though that would never happen either:whistling2:



BIX is different requires a different tool. Also if you're extending Data never use a 66Block


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Edrick said:


> BIX is different requires a different tool. Also if you're extending Data never use a 66Block


What about this...






























http://www.suttlesolutions.com/cata...-blocks/50pair-4x50-cat5-66m-block-white.html


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Just say no!


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

wcord said:


> I think the BIX block and 66 block are the same type of terminal.
> A small knife also would seem to work well if need be to push the wire down on the terminal, though that would never happen either:whistling2:


Bix, 66, 110, krone are all different and NOT interchangeable.
That said, I have seen 66 and Krone blocks that fit the same basic footprint; 110 and Bix blocks that are about the same size on the wall.


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## Kunolop (Feb 9, 2013)

Thanks guys, I still don't quite understand but will ask the telephone utility for more info. The plans call for a bix to RJ45 cross connect at the server end and a bix at the other and run a 25pair between them. I guess more of what I was asking is how this system works, and the color coding. Running the cable and terminating is easy if I knew how the system worked and color coding.


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Here is the standard 25 pair color code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code

Are you just putting a patch panel in the rack, and a cross-connect block at the other end?


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

I find that terminating a 25pr 66blk is easier if you do it in reverse and start at the bottom and work your way up, it keeps the excess that gets cut off out of the way. I know the color code backwards as well as forward.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Ty Wrapp said:


> I find that terminating a 25pr 66blk is easier if you do it in reverse and start at the bottom and work your way up, it keeps the excess that gets cut off out of the way. I know the color code backwards as well as forward.


White Russians Brew Yummy Vodka
Very Yellow Bees Run Wild


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## Kunolop (Feb 9, 2013)

jeffmoss26 said:


> Here is the standard 25 pair color code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Are you just putting a patch panel in the rack, and a cross-connect block at the other end?


Yeah that is what I'm doing


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

OK seems pretty straightforward.


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

Kunolop said:


> Thanks guys, I still don't quite understand but will ask the telephone utility for more info. The plans call for a bix to RJ45 cross connect at the server end and a bix at the other and run a 25pair between them. I guess more of what I was asking is how this system works, and the color coding. Running the cable and terminating is easy if I knew how the system worked and color coding.


--

I have not had great results using a BIX block on Cat5e. I know the device can be used for it, they even make Cat6 BIX blocks, but it just seems to be less than ideal. How long is the run? I have taken a few of these apart that people ran, who had no idea how to do anything either by code or being efficient. The last one I did involved removing Cat 5 cable, non plenum that was run in conduit for 3/4 of the run, then open for the last part...:no: Then have it run into a BIX block, then take from the BIX to patch panels, then into a hub. Yeah, plus running 4 lines of Cat 5 into each wall plate, and only using blue/white for telco for each run. 

Big scrap pile after that job.

Depending on the setup, BIX can work, but I typically have used it mainly for Telephone, (Norstar etc.) and use 110 block for data. I have not done any Cat6 work, no one wants to pay for it, so I can't say if my methods would change for that.

I just really dislike poor workmanship. Spaghetti is what I want to have for dinner, not look at while I am working.


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

wcord said:


> I think the BIX block and 66 block are the same type of terminal.
> A small knife also would seem to work well if need be to push the wire down on the terminal, though that would never happen either:whistling2:



All too often the BIX block gets destroyed when this is done. Sometimes it "might" work for this cable, then when it gets moved, all of a sudden, line X is no longer working. The whole block is toast at that point, since you really can't fix it once it has been damaged.

I have heard, though never tried it out, that a plastic tab from bread bags would work in a pinch, although it will not trim the wire at the block.:whistling2:

If someone is going to be working on a bix block, just buy the right blade, they work in the same punch down tools (usually), and if you are not wanting to buy a good one, I bought one for $15.00 this summer to lend out. I am not lending out my Fluke Networks punchdown....


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

Kunolop said:


> Thanks guys, I still don't quite understand but will ask the telephone utility for more info. The plans call for a bix to RJ45 cross connect at the server end and a bix at the other and run a 25pair between them. I guess more of what I was asking is how this system works, and the color coding. Running the cable and terminating is easy if I knew how the system worked and color coding.


--

You may want to check out Belden's website. http://www.belden.com/search-result...ldenwebsite&0=filter&num=10&search-btn=Search

You might be looking for the Bix QCBIX36C or similar, which would most likely yield a better result that what I have seen where they make patch cables go the other end of the bix that goes into a patch panel etc.

--

I am a little confused on the original scope of the project, maybe it is because I am slightly decaffeinated...

Is this for voice or data?

You mention server and telephone, that is why I am confused.

If for telephone, analog, digital or IP?

If you can get a good 110 block, use it for data, although running 1 25 pair would not yield the number of ports for the patch panel.

If this is for telephone, if you are wanting to extend the the cable (Amphenol connector) for a phone system, then using the BIX block will make it simple, Left to Right using the standard colour coding system found everywhere.

Maybe I am just making it a little more complicated than it need be.

Just remember, use the right kind of cable, plenum, riser etc.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Please excuse my ignorance, but is a BIX the same as Krone? I use 66,110 and rarely Krone, never used a BIX.


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but is a BIX the same as Krone? I use 66,110 and rarely Krone, never used a BIX.


--

They are different. BIX was a Nortel invention apparently, which is why you see so much of it here in Canada. That, and wherever Nortel / Norstar / Northern Electric Telephone systems were used. 

They use different impact bits.

--


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

One BIX BLOCK comin up!

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1525270.pdf

http://www.beldenapac.com/products/enterprise-cable-connectivity/gigabix


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bix is Belden no?


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## Rowdy (Mar 26, 2010)

Kunolop said:


> Thanks guys, I still don't quite understand but will ask the telephone utility for more info. The plans call for a bix to RJ45 cross connect at the server end and a bix at the other and run a 25pair between them. I guess more of what I was asking is how this system works, and the color coding. Running the cable and terminating is easy if I knew how the system worked and color coding.


I see this quite a bit, most often when a company is in the middle of a transition to voip (or planning to in the future). It happens sometimes if they just want to allow for the possibility of fax lines or emergency phones too.

it lets them terminate all their cables terminate on a patch panel instead of running separate voice cables to a phone block.

terminate one end on the bix.

terminate the other on a 24 port patch panel. 1 pair for each jack on the white/blue-blue/white pair.

then they just use patch cables to get out into the field.

is it the bestest and most proper way to do things? probably not, but it works.


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## Rowdy (Mar 26, 2010)

Somewhere_401 said:


> All too often the BIX block gets destroyed when this is done. Sometimes it "might" work for this cable, then when it gets moved, all of a sudden, line X is no longer working. The whole block is toast at that point, since you really can't fix it once it has been damaged.
> 
> I have heard, though never tried it out, that a plastic tab from bread bags would work in a pinch, although it will not trim the wire at the block.:whistling2:
> 
> If someone is going to be working on a bix block, just buy the right blade, they work in the same punch down tools (usually), and if you are not wanting to buy a good one, I bought one for $15.00 this summer to lend out. I am not lending out my Fluke Networks punchdown....


if you are going to be doing any amount of Bix I would seriously recommend getting a proper belden bix tool ( the one with the white handle).

Bix uses a scissor cutting action instead of a impact blade. a ds19 still impacts when using that style of blade, and doesn't seems to terminate nice a lot of the time. I have seen many people get frustrated with it.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Rowdy said:


> I see this quite a bit, most often when a company is in the middle of a transition to voip (or planning to in the future). It happens sometimes if they just want to allow for the possibility of fax lines or emergency phones too.
> 
> it lets them terminate all their cables terminate on a patch panel instead of running separate voice cables to a phone block.
> 
> ...


And probably not the least expensive alternative :whistling2:


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

chewy said:


> Bix is Belden no?


--

Apparently during the bankruptcy of Nortel it was sold, and that company then merged to become part of Belden.

I have also seen several generic bix blocks, the irony is, some have been more expensive than the Belden ones.:no:


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

Rowdy said:


> if you are going to be doing any amount of Bix I would seriously recommend getting a proper belden bix tool ( the one with the white handle).
> 
> Bix uses a scissor cutting action instead of a impact blade. a ds19 still impacts when using that style of blade, and doesn't seems to terminate nice a lot of the time. I have seen many people get frustrated with it.


--

I have one white handle generic bix tool, which I bought to lend out. It does a good job but does not really cut that ends of the wires very well.

I have a bix blade for my Fluke Networks punch down and that works VERY well. I am very happy with it. 

So I have a 66 punchdown, 66/110 punchdown, 66/110/bix punchdown and a bix punchdown. Each has its purpose, and also was what I needed at that time, and the lesser tools have become lendable to friends etc.

I was on one site when Bell came, and the guy looked at my fluke while I was finishing off the telephone wiring to the new bix blocks I had set, asked how I like it, and then looked back at his white handled one and struggled to get a nice clean cut...:blink:

I think that for a lot of this, it comes down to personal preference, and how much $$$ you are willing to spend versus how often you are going to use it.


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Yep, Bix is now made by Belden. 
Here is some history!
In February 1996, Nortel Cable Group was sold to Cable Design Technologies Corporation., who called this group NORDX/CDT.[2] NORDX/CDT subsequently merged with Belden Inc in July 2004, becoming Belden CDT Inc.[3] In May 2007 Belden CDT officially changed its name to Belden[4]


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## kleidealee (Oct 26, 2014)

Usually when installing any equipment in a telecommunication room or entrance facility B.I.C.S.I. best practices recommend minimizing the space needed for installation. 110 blocks do just that. Can you imagine the space wasted terminating 300pr on 66 blocks? 

Yes you only have 25pr, but remember the next guy for any possible moves, adds, or changes. 

Also, termination is much faster on a 110 block. Used 5-pair clips on your block. Lay down all your wires. Use a 110 5-pair impact tool to terminate. Five punch downs later you're done. Beats terminating one at a time.


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## Wired4Life10 (Jul 9, 2011)

Can you recommend a 5pr punch tool?


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## kleidealee (Oct 26, 2014)

Wired4Life10 said:


> Can you recommend a 5pr punch tool?


I would simply do a search on Ebay. This is one of those tools where spending more isn't really warranted. Go cheap, put it away when you're done, and it'll last a lifetime. I spent $25 maybe $30 with shipping and punched down several thousand pairs. It's a year old and even still the blades cut very well.


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## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

OP,
Just ask the telco what they want. They should have a tech or foremanto get ya in the right zone.
Also the customers IT(information technology) or consultant or engineer should know what they want.
Sounds to me like you are just terminating both ends of the tie cable, which you may be able to let the telco do the demarc end. Just lay the 25 pair pair down on a 66 block like the pic ty rapp posted. you may want to ask what services they are carrying on it...POTS,DSL,VOIP,or other circuits. 
Like i said, the telco company should be your friend. They sometimes do inside wiring depending on their policy but usually charge a lot for it.


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## Dace (Dec 2, 2016)

The service provider is only responsible for the lines at the dmarc. He'll bring them in but that's all. 25 pair is used for voice so I'm assuming that you will terminate the 25 pair with 66 block at both ends. Then crosswire the CO'S to the 66 at the dmarc then crosswise into the system at the other end... ?


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