# Rewire via basement or attic debate



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Your boss is doing it that way because he is comfortable with that way. If I had a helper with only 6 months experience I would not trust them in the attic alone. I would probably be up there in all the heat, not the helper. Let him make the decision.:thumbsup:


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

if you only have 6 mos experience, and you already want to "debate" how to go about rewiring a house with your boss who is (a master electrician with 10 yrs experience ?), I'd guess you are gonna last about another 2 weeks in the trade.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

wildleg said:


> if you only have 6 mos experience, and you already want to "debate" how to go about rewiring a house with your boss who is (a master electrician with 10 yrs experience ?), I'd guess you are gonna last about another 2 weeks in the trade.


Ditto that.

Have some faith in the guy that has been doing it longer than you have been shaving.:jester:

I can't tell from here what the bosses reasons are, he likely has a good reason. Maybe it is is just 'his way' and that is why most people become bosses so they can do things they way they want.

Maybe the HO told your boss to keep the wiring out of the basement because they want to finish it later.

You have to understand that with just 6 mouths in you know jack


----------



## redline9k (May 10, 2010)

Thats why im asking you guys...I never plan to question my boss directly. I just do what I'm told while trying to learn as much as possible.

are there any code or other reasons that wiring the attic is preferable to the basement?


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

redline9k said:


> Thats why im asking you guys...I never plan to question my boss directly. I just do what I'm told while trying to learn as much as possible.
> 
> are there any code or other reasons that wiring the attic is preferable to the basement?


In your first post you said that you and your boss were having a debate. Was he there? In any case good luck. You will always have questions but pick and choose when you ask them.


----------



## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

Keep asking the questions. That's the only way you get good at the trade. Just don't be confrontational about it. I take a dim view of help that doesn't ask why, and am firmly convinced that after all the years in the trade I have, somebody with a different point of view might just be able to show me something new.

I was always taught to limit the length of home runs as much as possible. Without a good reason not to I would have wired as much as possible from the basement. 

Of course there's always the homeowners that are convinced that the hole you drill in a floor joist will cause the floor to become squeeky and bouncy:blink:........ Then you just have to bid accordingly


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It could be more labor costs to go through the basement. Maybe NM is not allowed in unfinished basements, and the cost of running EMT or MC is too much.

Either way, it's one thing to ask questions and try to learn, it's another to question the person who signs your check.


----------



## redline9k (May 10, 2010)

I just simply asked why we were going through the attic. I didnt argue with him when he said "because thats what we're doing".

...now that you mention it, it probably would be more expensive to fish new holes from the basement....just wasnt sure if there was a code reason.


----------



## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It could be more labor costs to go through the basement. Maybe NM is not allowed in unfinished basements, and the cost of running EMT or MC is too much.
> 
> Either way, it's one thing to ask questions and try to learn, it's another to question the person who signs your check.


Yep, some counties do require only EMT in unfinished basements!


----------



## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Attic work is tougher, but is also generally simpler and uses less wire -- or so some think. I don't agree. Coming down the wall say, six feet to each receptacle takes a lot of wire and the top plates at the eaves are usually not drillable or even very accessible.

I would do the job using the basement.

A couple of things are at work when considering the basement. First, is the structure such that the joists can be drilled or would the wiring have to be "exposed" on the underside of the joists or affixed to "running boards" depending on the AHJ.

From what you have said, I'd go the basement route, but then, it isn't my job.

Added: Another thing, while partitions can usually be "seen" from below, locating outlets can be difficult unless the floor allows the drilling of small, location holes. I can usually angle them in almost under the baseboard, but carpet or tile can really complicate the process.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

You guys are really mean. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> You guys are really mean. :laughing:



We ain't known as Mr. Nice Guy! :whistling2:


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

That sounds like a good question to ask your boss, at breaktime or after work. 
Most guys like it when you ask questions. It shows you are at least trying to learn.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

redline9k said:


> I just simply asked why we were going through the attic. I didnt argue with him when he said "because thats what we're doing".
> 
> ...now that you mention it, it probably would be more expensive to fish new holes from the basement....just wasnt sure if there was a code reason.


 

334.15 (c) is enough reason for you to do it through the attic, also,,,,



cuz he said so


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> 334.15 (c) is enough reason for you to do it through the attic, also,,,,
> 
> 
> 
> cuz he said so


Thats pretty weak...why can't he drill holes are put up some 1x's to staple to?....I don;t blame you for asking...I wouldn;t want to work in the attic either...


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Your boss must think its faster and or easier and or less material to go thru the attic. He want to be as profitable as he can. At the same time maybe he thinks the job will look better going thru the attic. I always try to do things the fastest way but want the job to look professional. That means sometimes doing things in a way thats a little harder. I'm sure he has his reasons.


----------



## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

I usually do whole house rewires the same way the house was originally wired. It's less drilling and easier fishing that way. Every time you drill a new hole, you run the risk of damaging floors, walls, phone / cable wiring etc., so the fewer new holes the better.

Last year, in the middle of Summer, I did two whole house re-wires in a row where the majority of the work was in the attic as well. That was not fun at all. In the late afternoons, I could only manage about five or ten minutes in a row up in the attic before having to take a break. When the inspector came to look at the first one late in the afternoon, he poked his head up in the attic for about five seconds, shined his flashlight around, and turned right back and came back down.

To the OP, I would say your boss is probably right on this one, but it never hurts to respectfully question the reasons behind what your boss tells you to do. I've learned a lot from guys with 30 or 40 years experience, but I've also learned new things from green helpers that are just starting out, and stumble across a new way of doing things just because they don't know the usual way.


----------



## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

Well hoss, around HERE, if it were me....I have only "rewired" 3 houses (fishing through walls) I would be working from the basement as much as I could. It makes sense to me. Here, we can run romex through the floor joists, and drilling holes up is easier than crawling around a attic. The ONLY reason you would find me in a attic is 1) light fixtures 2) cieling fan 3) exhaust fan 4) possibly can lights and maybe some light switches.

There is no way in sam hill I would take on a rewire from the attic if I had an accesible basement. 

For what it is worth, some bosses are morons.....

Good luck, learn what you can. I spent my apprenticeship learning what not to do....sometimes not, but alot of days.......:whistling2:


----------



## CFine (May 20, 2008)

redline9k said:


> I found this board to settle a debate my boss and I were having over which is preferred these days. I only have about 6mos experience, so still learning every day, but thought this was an interesting case of logic gone wrong.
> 
> We started a residential rewire job replacing AL to copper last week. The panel is in the basement, and all branches are run up the single story wall to the attic and off to their respective circuits and back down the wall.
> 
> ...


Your there to learn how to do the Job, asking questions in good, but Keep this in Mind. Sometimes Code prohibits your idea, Labor and cost can as well. I've done 4 House rewires, The attic is what i would do. I"ve done the basement to, but in the end its boils down to Can i get a hole w/o hitting a Floor Joist? Best advice i'm sure you'll be given is this. If your not learning every day something new or a different way of doing something then something is not right.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I like the newguy's attitude. It's always good to think for yourself insead of blindly doing what you are told.

There may be more at play here but judging from your bosses "because I said so" remark, I'd say he might be wrong.

Unless you are cutting out drywall in the ceiling/wall corners, getting down exterior walls from the attic can be really tough.

We don't have basements here but it seems like you would have easy access to receps from below.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220/221 said:


> We don't have basements here but it seems like you would have easy access to receps from below.


Is that because of rocky terrain?

The basement is one of the coolest places to be during the summer.


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

With the number of receps being greater than overhead switch legs, I would try to do as much as possible from below.


----------



## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

redline9k said:


> My boss however, prefers to not disturb the basement or take time to locate boxes and is having us route all wires back up through the attic and down to their respective boxes...although its a)dark b)cramped low pitch roof and c)about 95+ degrees up there already!
> 
> Obviously, I do what the boss says, but...what would you guys do? attic or basement and why?


Having read the other responses, I would suggest that your boss is pretty busy and you may have picked a wrong time or day to ask him. :001_huh:

all you have to do is drill through the ceiling a couple of times or perhaps put your knee through it and HE will be the one up there.:yes:


Of course you May not have a job anymore:whistling2: but wouldn't it be better not to have a jerk like that order you about?


----------



## redline9k (May 10, 2010)

all went well yesterday although im about 5lb lighter than i was when i started...i hope sweating all over their insulation isnt a big deal!

Thanks for all of the responses...the more i was on the job, it seems like the HO was picky about drilling up the basement "too much". It was partially finished, but it had a drop ceiling with tiles that we could have easily removed and run NM. I guess code-wise, we would be fine having done the basement in NM 12/2...HO is the one paying the bill though.

I went to look up 334.15(c). How does that keep me from drilling joists and running NM 12/2 branches via the unfinished basement? I would only need BX or conduit for boxes against the unfinished basement wall, correct?


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

That depends on your local inspecter. You can't just staple 12-2 to the bottom of the joist, anything smaller than 6-2 , 8-3 needs to be ran through boared holes...I would have fought to run it in the basement...


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> That depends on your local inspecter. You can't just staple 12-2 to the bottom of the joist, anything smaller than 6-2 , 8-3 needs to be ran through boared holes...I would have fought to run it in the basement...


 
I agree.


----------



## jbrookers (Dec 7, 2008)

Outlets and switches from the basement and lights and smokes from the attic. We have a lot of crawlspaces in Atlanta which is nice...you get to lay down while you work.


----------



## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

jbrookers said:


> Outlets and switches from the basement and lights and smokes from the attic. We have a lot of crawlspaces in Atlanta which is nice...you get to lay down while you work.


With the snakes?


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

waco said:


> With the snakes?


 
Who don't like spiders and snakes? You can get creative killing them.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I would have fought to run it in the basement...


And if I was the boss of a 6 month guy I would not put up with any fighting about how we would do things. :laughing:

Ask all the questions you want of me but once I tell you how I want it done that is the end of the discussion.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

redline9k said:


> all went well yesterday although im about 5lb lighter than i was when i started...i hope sweating all over their insulation isnt a big deal!
> 
> Thanks for all of the responses...the more i was on the job, it seems like the HO was picky about drilling up the basement "too much". It was partially finished, but it had a drop ceiling with tiles that we could have easily removed and run NM. I guess code-wise, we would be fine having done the basement in NM 12/2...HO is the one paying the bill though.
> 
> I went to look up 334.15(c). How does that keep me from drilling joists and running NM 12/2 branches via the unfinished basement? I would only need BX or conduit for boxes against the unfinished basement wall, correct?


 

I never said it kept you from doing it,,,,,I said it was enough reason to not do it. If I've got 5 HR's to get accros a 100' house from one side to the other. I'm in the attic with staples. 

Now,,,at the same time you're in the basement with 5 HR's to get accross the same 100' house with grid ceiling in place,,, with a ship auger bit,,,,,

You wanna bet who's gonna win? Your boss is the only experienced person that has seen the job. We all have to assume he had a reason.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> And if I was the boss of a 6 month guy I would not put up with any fighting about how we would do things. :laughing:
> 
> Ask all the questions you want of me but once I tell you how I want it done that is the end of the discussion.


 I didn;t mean the apprentice...I meant the boss...He said the customer didn;t want wires in the basement....As the boss, I would have fought to use the basement...The attic is a last resort for me...


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Is that because of rocky terrain?


 
Not realy. A lot of areas here have very good soil (old farm land). I think it's because of all the space we have. It's much cheaper to build on a slab they they generally don't bother with basements. The basement is a great feature though. Certainly stays cooler down there.

Fuinny, I was in a 1962 tract home today that had a half basement. Old guy, original owner, said the basement option was an extra $1000. The house probably cost $6000 in 62





> Ask all the questions you want of me but once I tell you how I want it done that is the end of the discussion


. 


It is generally better for everyone if you also explain "why".


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> It is generally better for everyone if you also explain "why".


When I say ask all the questions you want I generally answer them. Look at me here, I answer questions all the time.

But after I tell a newbie how I want it done there is no arguing about it. 

Hell for all we know the guy may have picked the attic just because he wanted the apprentice to break a sweat.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I didn;t mean the apprentice...I meant the boss...He said the customer didn;t want wires in the basement....As the boss, I would have fought to use the basement...The attic is a last resort for me...


Oh. I did assume you meant the apprentice.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

In a house with a basement and an attic, I'd likely use a little of both for the rewire. Whatever was most efficient for the particular circuit or section in question. I'd never really just use one or the other exclusively, unless there was some compelling reason, like a finished basement with a hard lid. Fishing exterior walls from the attic, unless it's at a gable end, just sucks. Of the top 10 things I hate the most about electrical work, drilling or fishing down an exterior wall while getting pronged in the head with roofing nails (while trying not to fall through the ceiling), has to be the #1 most miserable task. Double that misery in the summer.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> When I say ask all the questions you want I generally answer them. Look at me here, I answer questions all the time.
> 
> But after I tell a newbie how I want it done there is no arguing about it.
> 
> Hell for all we know the guy may have picked the attic just because he wanted the apprentice to break a sweat.


 
Understood but a newbie doesn't know what questions to ask so it's a good idea to take two minutes and explain *why* we are routing the cabling in the attic vs the basement or *why* we are installing a jbox in this specific location.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Understood but a newbie doesn't know what questions to ask so it's a good idea to take two minutes and explain *why* we are routing the cabling in the attic vs the basement or *why* we are installing a jbox in this specific location.


 


BS,,,,,he doesn't owe him an explanation.

As Bob said, what if the reason was to try to make him sweat. 
What if the reason was try and make him quit.
What if the reason was to see if the guy would complain like a b*itch.(many on here would have failed)
What if,,,,,,,

you just do your job


----------



## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

waco said:


> With the snakes?


I have ran into more snakes( and skins) in drop ceiling basements, than I have crawl spaces.

Spiders, that a whole other story.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> BS,,,,,he doesn't owe him an explanation.
> 
> As Bob said, what if the reason was to try to make him sweat.
> What if the reason was try and make him quit.
> ...


I bet you have 'em lining up to work for you...I'd probably punch you in the face.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't think anyone can make a blanket statement of "always go through the attic/basement!"

I've been in basements that you can't even turn around in, they're so full of crap. I've been in basements that have nothing but a water heater and a furnace in them as well.

I certainly wouldn't want to crawl around in a 30" attic all day, but I've experienced some attics that are a dream to work in.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Understood but a newbie doesn't know what questions to ask so it's a good idea to take two minutes and explain *why* we are routing the cabling in the attic vs the basement or *why* we are installing a jbox in this specific location.



I agree, I hated working for a guy that just explained how he wanted it done and nothing more. Those are the guys that think there way is always the best and the only way it should ever be done.

Nothing better than seeing those guys again while interviewing them..:thumbsup:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I agree, I hated working for a guy that just explained how he wanted it done and nothing more. Those are the guys that think there way is always the best and the only way it should ever be done.
> 
> Nothing better than seeing those guys again while interviewing them..:thumbsup:


 

Has this honestly ever happened to you?? I'm throwing the BS flag. YOu really expect us to believe, that you hi have interviewed and hired somebody who you used to work for??,,,,yeah,,,I bet


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I bet you have 'em lining up to work for you...I'd probably punch you in the face.


 


You'd get an attitude adjustment, or a life adjustment, either way, I'd be the last person you punch in the face.


----------



## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

I am sure everyone on this site has had someone give them a hard time at one time or another.. suck it up! we've all been there !!!:yes:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Has this honestly ever happened to you?? I'm throwing the BS flag. YOu really expect us to believe, that you hi have interviewed and hired somebody who you used to work for??,,,,yeah,,,I bet


No I have never hired someone I used to work, didnt say I did either..I have interviewed a few guys that used to be a lead guys for company's that I worked for.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You'd get an attitude adjustment, or a life adjustment, either way, I'd be the last person you punch in the face.


lmao, a keyboard commando you are:laughing::laughing:


----------



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

whats the point of working for someone who isn't willing to teach you? "Because I said so" is a BS answer.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Voltech said:


> lmao, a keyboard commando you are:laughing::laughing:


 
I'm a bad man when I'm several states away,,,let me tell you:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I'm a bad when I'm several states away,,,let me tell you:laughing::laughing:


You better pack some diapers so you can here faster:laughing::laughing:


----------

