# Light bulbs burning out, other problems



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would firstly change all the incandescent bulbs to bulbs that are 130Volts not 120 volts. This is one of the most common reasons for bulb burn out. I bet the fluorescents problem may be a coincident or perhaps ballast problems

Either way, I would change those bulbs-- it will probably make a big difference.


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## sparky.jp (May 1, 2009)

Did you measure the AC voltage level, and if so, what is it?

Did the POCO resolve the voltage-drop issue (possibly by changing to a higher-voltage tap somewhere upstream), or was is something on the premises?

Without any additional information, all I can suggest would be to install a whole-house surge arrestor at the service entrance (something I think should be required nowadays due to the high level of electronics in every appliance in the house).


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

I come across this problem from time to time too. Each time I just scratch my head and never find an answer. If you leave it alone it will just go away. Other than high voltage peaks and high inrush currents there is no other reason for incandesent lamps to fail - except age of course. Since you have checked the former - just forget it unless you discover a new truth in which case be sure to post your findings here.GOOD LUCK.

Frank


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

FES said:


> Got a call from a customer who had a voltage drop issue last year....got that under control. Now they just called and are going through light bulbs like "candy" they say....incadescents & flourescents. Also, they have had some appliances to have problems (circuit boards, etc. & a relay in a heat pump). The power company has run a line test twice with the second one being for several days. I have checked all terminal connections, etc. The voltage is within the power company's tolerance but yet they say it is at the maximum level.
> 
> I will be by there the first of next week to take an actual voltage test myself. Any advice on what else to look for. I want to ck it out before I call the power co. out again.
> 
> My initial thought is voltage spikes which I see as "dirty" power coming in.


 
Get a data recorder on the service - I suspect an intermittant neutral problem.


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## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

Power co. was suppose to set the recorder today. I will be out on Monday to ck it out further. I'll post then. I have installed surge protectors in the main panel before....is this what you are calling a surge arrestor? I'm assuming so.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

frank said:


> If you leave it alone it will just go away.


:blink: _I just don't have any polite words for that statement..._ :001_huh:

Might want to try LGLS's recommendation next time. I've encountered similar issues and I've never run into a situation I couldn't figure out and have a solid answer for. There's something causing it and it. Lights, ballasts and appliances don't just all start going bad in unison for kicks and giggles.

If the house checks out, a power quality recorder is the next logical step.


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

If voltage levels are fine and the equipment opperating parrameters are being met - if high inrush currents form external influences and spikes are not intoduced from without your mains influence - if temperature levels are not a factor and conductivity of circuitry is constant- if age of equipment is not coincidental with failures and FES says he has undertaken all the above,then use whatever words you wish towards those of us that unlike yourself often don't have the answer and have found that in this often mysterious game of eletricity - it can't readily be explained and the problem just disapears. If you have undertaken all checks that a responsible person would undertake and you are satisfied that there is nothing wrong - then accept it. Unitil perhaps future events determine otherwise NOTHING IS WRONG

Frank


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

FES said:


> Got a call from a customer who had a voltage drop issue last year....got that under control. Now they just called and are going through light bulbs like "candy" they say....incadescents & flourescents. Also, they have had some appliances to have problems (circuit boards, etc. & a relay in a heat pump). The power company has run a line test twice with the second one being for several days. I have checked all terminal connections, etc. The voltage is within the power company's tolerance but yet they say it is at the maximum level.
> 
> I will be by there the first of next week to take an actual voltage test myself. Any advice on what else to look for. I want to ck it out before I call the power co. out again.
> 
> My initial thought is voltage spikes which I see as "dirty" power coming in.


If they are eating light bulbs"like candy", tell them to quit. I think my dad used to eat light bulbs....at least, whenever I would get near the bedroom door I would hear him say "Turn the light out, and I'll eat it".


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## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

Ok....here is what I know as of right now. I went out to ck all connections in the meter base & main panel...everything ok. We even pulled every rec. & switch to ck connections...everything ok. 

I met a power co. engineer out that specializes in these problems. Their recorder did not find anything wrong except times of excessive amp draw in the 100 - 115A range. These "spikes" would last several minutes and only happened a few times a day and few at night.........I know what you are thinking......heating. The spikes actually occured over a weekend with temperatures in the 60's. They have gas heat down & heat pump up (two bedrooms only). Also, have gas water heater. The power co. says that is very unusual for a house that size with gas appliances to ever get that much amp draw.

The voltage range was from 123 - 124 during the 4 days the recorder was on.....so no over voltage or drops showed up.

We did find a loose connection with the phone co.'s grounding to the ground wire and also the Direct TV system's ground was not even hooked up. The ground rod measured 175 ohms and he said that was about as high as he would like to see for our soil contents. I put another one in per his recommendation....not sure the ohms now though. 

Any thoughts??? Anyone think the loose grounds from phone/tv could have an effect on light bulb filaments, circuit boards going bad in appliances, phone modems going out & even a newer t.v?


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

That high Amp draw would concern me as well. Hard starting heat pump compressor? Wait ... several minutes' worth? 

Such high loads could result in a momentary sag followed by a spike in voltage that can cause the damage/failure of light bulbs you described.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Where did the power company install their PMI? It could be as simple as a loose neutral somewhere AFTER the point where they installed their PMI. In Square D panels, for instance, the neutral wire can be tight in the lug, but the lug can be loose on the bar. Seen that a hundred times.

Can you heavily load one phase, then the other, to rule in our out a loose neutral?


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> If they are eating light bulbs"like candy", tell them to quit. I think my dad used to eat light bulbs....at least, whenever I would get near the bedroom door I would hear him say "Turn the light out, and I'll eat it".


Dude that is friggin hilarious.

BTW, i heard somewhere once (notice how i qualify the following statement because i don't pretend to know the first thing about troubleshooting houses) That depending on where the service is in relation to things upstream from the utility, you could experience such anomalies with voltage spikes, transients, etc. Could it be that somewhere relatively close upstream, LARGE ass loads are being shed from time to time, causing a dramatic increase in voltage? I dont know...just input.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

So what did you find? My opinion is a intermitten connection on the neutral or a bad transformer. What were the results from the POCO and were you able to load test each phase?


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Can you heavily load one phase, then the other, to rule in our out a loose neutral?


How would loading a phase be indicative of a loose neutral?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

gilbequick said:


> How would loading a phase be indicative of a loose neutral?


One leg, I rightly should have said, instead of one phase. 

Heavily loading one leg... if you do that, and the voltage to ground goes up on the other leg, you have a loose neutral situation. If the voltage goes unusually down on the leg you're loading (try both), yet the voltage on the opposite leg remains somewhat stable, you're hunting a loose hot.


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## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

The power company says everything on their side checks out. They did say the excess amp draw was normal with the start up of the heat pump. Their meter was set wrong for it's time stamping and it made the high amp draw show longer than it actually lasted. The added ground rod got the resistance down to 105 ohms. The power co. says that was good....a lot better than most homes they said. Going to install a surge protector in the main panel and hope that all will be well later???


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

how much do those surge protector cost?


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## hiamp (Mar 14, 2010)

I had a problem like this. It was a bad crimp connection on the neutral at the service drop. also check the bond at the main service


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## GoodLookingUglyGuy (Feb 3, 2010)

lots of good info here. I had the same problem years ago with light bulbs found out my wife had bought 110 volt lamps  after I rewired the house and service. also just fyi cfl's are 120 volt rated Can't use them here my house voltage is 122 I burn them up in a week-two also remember power company doesn't want to pay out for fried equipment they may of already fixed their problem I also ran into an issue once where the power company had a corroded neutral. I spent 3 hrs trying to get the system to show any sign of a problem, didn't happen until I shut everything off as I was walking out the door a caught a fliker out the corner of my eye bingo checked power again lost neut at the pot.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

FES said:


> The power company says everything on their side checks out. They did say the excess amp draw was normal with the start up of the heat pump. Their meter was set wrong for it's time stamping and it made the high amp draw show longer than it actually lasted. The added ground rod got the resistance down to 105 ohms. The power co. says that was good....a lot better than most homes they said. Going to install a surge protector in the main panel and hope that all will be well later???


why did they add a ground rod? a ground rod wont fix a loose neutral problem. did you check inside the panel, meter socket and service point? what about loose neutrals on MWBC? maybe its fed by a MWBC with a loose neutral somewhere?


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## VersaJoe (Nov 19, 2009)

Forgive me for chiming in so late on this thread. I had a very similar call to check out two weeks ago. The guy told me whenever he would turn on his saw, or when the blower would kick on in the furnace, the lights would severely dim. He also stated he burns out bulbs more often than he ever has, and he's 70 years old. I took a look at his equipment and found it to be in good shape. Everything was grounded and bonded correctly, screws were tight, so forth. I did notice there was a difference in voltage between the two legs ranging between 6 - 9 volts. Pretty big difference from my experience. I put the amp probe on the feeders and had him turn on the saw. The voltage dropped almost 15 volts on the leg the saw was hooked to, and get this on the oppisitte leg, the voltage increased almost 10 volts. I suspected a loose neutral or bad transformer. Had POCO come out, and they found an almost arcing neutral up on the pole leading to the house. He respliced it, I retested, and everything was now normal.


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## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

PoCo found nothing on there side.....I know the engineer that came out personally and feel that there findings are correct. All neutrals have been checked and are good to go. I got an HVAC service man to ck all their equipment from top to bottom and he did not find anything with that equipment. I am installing a surge suppressor and phone/tv protection this week. Still never really found the problem???


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> One leg, I rightly should have said, instead of one phase.
> 
> Heavily loading one leg... if you do that, and the voltage to ground goes up on the other leg, you have a loose neutral situation. If the voltage goes unusually down on the leg you're loading (try both), yet the voltage on the opposite leg remains somewhat stable, you're hunting a loose hot.


I just had a similar complaint. 
I turned on the offending 40W light and read 124V at bulb input of 2 bulb fixture.
I then loaded the other leg and saw the voltage at offending light go up to about 126V.
I then used hair dryers and microwave oven as loads and got the voltage up to 135V. Saw the same were the wires entered the meter. Called the power company.

I should have measured current at panel.
My guess is that utility neutral has become loose, burned or corroded and that these particular bulbs were more sensitive and anything else in the house. My concern is that this resistance could become worse and fry appliances.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

When my parents had this problem, it, too, turned out to be a neutral problem. The pole grounds that the co-op in their area is nothing more than a no. 6 bare copper that runs the length of the pole to a tightly spiraled coil at the pole base. It wound-up being ALL connections were good... that is until about an inch where the no. 6 went into the ground. It had eroded to the point it was about the size of a pencil lead. A couple kearneys, a foot of no. 6, and a little tape-- problem solved!


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## guschash (Jul 8, 2007)

I just put a Siemens whole-surge arrestor in my neighors panel, it was $52 at my supply house. :thumbsup:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

FES said:


> ...The added ground rod got the resistance down to 105 ohms....


 I'm not sure why the power company keeps referring to ground rods, on a two wire distribution system that should have absolutely nothing to do with voltage at the house.

If they drove an extra rod and it appeared to "solve" the problem, I would bet money you have a bad neutral. This is a band-aid and the problem will re-occur. Don't let them off the hook.

-John


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