# Turnkey Install 14KW Generac



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

It's pretty easy when the panel is outside and you put it right next to it.


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## tufts46argled (Dec 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> It's pretty easy when the panel is outside and you put it right next to it.


Yep, got to love em.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

no 5 foot from wall requirement?


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## tufts46argled (Dec 23, 2007)

Lep said:


> no 5 foot from wall requirement?


18" for Generac


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

tufts46argled said:


> 18" for Generac


No its 5 foot


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

jett95 said:


> No its 5 foot


No it's not, its 18 inches for Generac and 5 ft for Kohler.


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

Well i was taught 5 foot and i do generac, mayb its a jersey thing


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You have a fire rated brick surface.. 18" is all you need...

But 110.26 figures in if too close to ATS...


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

flyboy said:


> No it's not, its 18 inches for Generac and 5 ft for Kohler.


Where does it say 5' for Kohler?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

can you use 5 foot as rule of thumb, for all generators and hot tubs?


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## patmurphey (May 28, 2013)

jett95 said:


> Well i was taught 5 foot and i do generac, mayb its a jersey thing


 18 inches in NJ even with wood siding, due to fire rating of the enclosure. Maybe a town rule, no problem here in Newton. Generac's installation guide contains a statement explaining the certification - it might be useful to show it to the AHJ.

Kohler air cooled models have composite enclosures, not fire rated, and require 5 feet from combustible surfaces.


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## tufts46argled (Dec 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> You have a fire rated brick surface.. 18" is all you need...
> 
> But 110.26 figures in if too close to ATS...


Picture angle, its to the side of the ATS.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

What are you guys doing about the PM for the generator after you install it? Are you offering the customer a PM contract? Just hand them the paperwork and wish them luck? Or ..... ?

Thanks,


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What are you guys doing about the PM for the generator after you install it? Are you offering the customer a PM contract? Just hand them the paperwork and wish them luck? Or ..... ?
> 
> Thanks,


We've got 500 Generator Maintenance Agreements. 

Starting at (Bronze Plan):

$348 air cooled 
$444 liquid cooled 22kw - 60kw
$544 liquid cooled 70kw - 150 kW 

Silver and Gold Plan include more benefits, like priority service etc and cost more.


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## tufts46argled (Dec 23, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What are you guys doing about the PM for the generator after you install it? Are you offering the customer a PM contract? Just hand them the paperwork and wish them luck? Or ..... ?
> 
> Thanks,


We include first year maintenance in our sales contract, and offer agreements after that.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

It's funny because the big work when it comes to these installations usually goes fast. It's all the little work that takes all the time.

For example, separating the neutrals from the grounds in the main panel could take a lot of time if it's a packed panel. Running the wire to the condensing unit to shed the AC could be a pain. Running new GEC's to the ATS if the existing ones aren't long enough could eat up an hour or more. Installing the modules to load shedding circuits if necessary could also take time.


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> It's funny because the big work when it comes to these installations usually goes fast. It's all the little work that takes all the time.
> 
> For example, separating the neutrals from the grounds in the main panel could take a lot of time if it's a packed panel. Running the wire to the condensing unit to shed the AC could be a pain. Running new GEC's to the ATS if the existing ones aren't long enough could eat up an hour or more. Installing the modules to load shedding circuits if necessary could also take time.


How come you would need to separate grounds and neutrals in the main panel?


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

finster said:


> How come you would need to separate grounds and neutrals in the main panel?


The neutral must be bonded to ground at only *one* location, the first disconnect. Before the transfer panel was installed, the first disconnect would have been in the main panel.

Now that there is a whole house transfer switch ahead of the old panel, the transfer switch is now the first disconnect and is the place that neutral/ground bond must be located. Beyond this point (i.e the original main panel), all neutrals and grounds must be separated/isolated .

These are the shortcuts many generator installers take to cut down on install time (not saying this was the case here).


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

looks nice. 

I only see one violation. (maybe) - why didn't you leave clearance in front of the ats ? (don't you think it will need to be serviced while energized, at some point ?)

also I have a question- does that gas regulator have a blowoff valve ? (I can't tell)


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm thinking the same thing wildleg, but maybe it's the angle the picture was taken?

Needs a strap on the sealtight and the flexible gas hose looks like it's bent.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

flyboy said:


> I'm thinking the same thing wildleg, but maybe it's the angle the picture was taken?
> 
> Needs a strap on the sealtight and the flexible gas hose looks like it's bent.


I changed my reply, because I thought the sealtite needed strap, too. but I looked up 356.30 (2011) and it seems it doesn't need strapping ?


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

tufts46argled said:


> Here's a quick 8 hour, start to finish install. Started at the shop a 8am loading the generator, leaving the customer's house at 4:30.


. Looks great aside from blocking the transfer switch , panel and meter ? I would have shifted that gen set down closer to the window . I hate installing equipment that blocks clear access to something that I may need to get back to at some point ?


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

RFguy said:


> The neutral must be bonded to ground at only one location, the first disconnect. Before the transfer panel was installed, the first disconnect would have been in the main panel.
> 
> Now that there is a whole house transfer switch ahead of the old panel, the transfer switch is now the first disconnect and is the place that neutral/ground bond must be located. Beyond this point (i.e the original main panel), all neutrals and grounds must be separated/isolated .
> 
> These are the shortcuts many generator installers take to cut down on install time (not saying this was the case here).


Thanks. I've never installed an ATS. just standby. What's rougg/ average cost of whole house ATS in a 200 amp service?


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Looks nice and clean, but that would be a big fail around here.. No 3' clearance in front of the panel.. Inside electrical rooms, we used to be able to mount the transformers (45 kva and lower) below the panels and they recently changed it so the panels have the proper clearance...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We have to install the unit 10' away from any window or vent so this looks like a fail where we are.
It's such a PITA to install a generator here, I can't remember the last time I did a complete install. It's been years.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

finster said:


> How come you would need to separate grounds and neutrals in the main panel?





RFguy said:


> The neutral must be bonded to ground at only *one* location, the first disconnect. Before the transfer panel was installed, the first disconnect would have been in the main panel.
> 
> Now that there is a whole house transfer switch ahead of the old panel, the transfer switch is now the first disconnect and is the place that neutral/ground bond must be located. Beyond this point (i.e the original main panel), all neutrals and grounds must be separated/isolated .
> 
> These are the shortcuts many generator installers take to cut down on install time (not saying this was the case here).


What he said^


And in addition to that, you also have to move the GEC's out of the main panel (which is now a sub panel) and into the ATS.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

jrannis said:


> We have to install the unit 10' away from any window or vent so this looks like a fail where we are.
> It's such a PITA to install a generator here, I can't remember the last time I did a complete install. It's been years.


It's 5' from a window or vent here. 

For the people saying the generator is in front of the ATS, that is just the way the picture is taken. In an earlier post the OP said that it's to the side of the ATS and there is clearance.



tufts46argled said:


> Picture angle, its to the side of the ATS.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Hack Work said:


> It's 5' from a window or vent here.
> 
> For the people saying the generator is in front of the ATS, that is just the way the picture is taken. In an earlier post the OP said that it's to the side of the ATS and there is clearance.


photometrics says - the end of the generator looks like it is into the required space by at least 6" (1/2 way onto the ats), possibly more. I call shenanigans.


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## jbrookers (Dec 7, 2008)

What size service is that? How are you managing the load?


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> What he said^
> 
> And in addition to that, you also have to move the GEC's out of the main panel (which is now a sub panel) and into the ATS.[/QUOTE
> Why would you have to move the GECs to the ATS? Wouldn't the main panel (now secon down the line) in theory be as a subpanel is to an original panel?


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

finster said:


> Why would you have to move the GECs to the ATS? Wouldn't the main panel (now secon down the line) in theory be as a subpanel is to an original panel?


You need the GEC's the go to the first means of disconnect, which changes from the main panel to the ATS in this type of installation.

The main panel will become a sub panel, yes. You would never bring the GEC's into a sub panel.


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## finster (Nov 16, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> You need the GEC's the go to the first means of disconnect, which changes from the main panel to the ATS in this type of installation.
> 
> The main panel will become a sub panel, yes. You would never bring the GEC's into a sub panel.


You must be talking about your waterpipe and ground rods right? I was thinking when you said GECs plural you meant all of your branch circuit GECs


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

finster said:


> You must be talking about your waterpipe and ground rods right?


 Yes sir.


> I was thinking when you said GECs plural you meant all of your branch circuit GECs


 Those are "EGC's". Equipment Grounding Conductors.

GEC is Grounding Electrode Conductor.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

tufts46argled said:


> Here's a quick 8 hour, start to finish install. Started at the shop a 8am loading the generator, leaving the customer's house at 4:30.


That's fast, nice job 

Got any more pics close up?

It's 18" (Generac), but 5ft if there's a window.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Other than routine P.M.s, how can anyone sell a customer on a possible failure contract? I'd look for another brand.


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## jsmart84 (Nov 20, 2011)

Generac has a min of 18 inches from a structure as long as the gas installation that the flex pipe come into the generator perpendicular. If it is installed parallel with it , it voids the exception so make sure you gas guy does it right otherwise must be 5 ft. 

Kohler and Generac still must maintain a 5 foot clearance from windows, vents, fireplac vents, h20/furnace exhuast and intake pipes.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

bobelectric said:


> Other than routine P.M.s, how can anyone sell a customer on a possible failure contract? I'd look for another brand.


your Generac comes with a three year warranty and to protect your warranty and extend the life of your new generator Generac recommends that periodic maintenance be performed by a certified Generac service provider. We are a certified service provider and can offer you the option of a one year service agreement or a two year service agreement. 

that's pretty much our script We also give the customer a copy of the service schedule and the items we perform at each of two visits a year.


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## formula30589 (Apr 29, 2014)

Is the generator more than 5' from the window? The pad you used is it designed and approved for use with Generac? Generac requires pea gravel base or concrete with 6" reveal all around. Do you have 3' working clearance in front of ATS? Any load management?


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

jsmart84 said:


> Generac has a min of 18 inches from a structure as long as the gas installation that the flex pipe come into the generator perpendicular. If it is installed parallel with it , it voids the exception so make sure you gas guy does it right otherwise must be 5 ft. Kohler and Generac still must maintain a 5 foot clearance from windows, vents, fireplac vents, h20/furnace exhuast and intake pipes.


 You mean the gas line should be parallel to the generator. That was a new requirement from Generac. Installing it perpendicular causes the union on the flex hose to come loose or break apart due to vibration opposing the direction of the hose connected perpendicular. As for the 5' foot rule that's an NFPA min if the manufacture can't prove otherwise like Generac has. I


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Great job. Looks great!


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## jsmart84 (Nov 20, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> You mean the gas line should be parallel to the generator. That was a new requirement from Generac. Installing it perpendicular causes the union on the flex hose to come loose or break apart due to vibration opposing the direction of the hose connected perpendicular. As for the 5' foot rule that's an NFPA min if the manufacture can't prove otherwise like Generac has. I


Yea paralleel. Mixed that up.


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