# Help I don't even know how to staple wire.



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If anything, mine are snug. Not tight. Just touching the sheath.

As for a defense, ask 'someone' for a Code reference.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Set your torque hammer at "17" and you'll be okay.


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Loose/snug what's it matter.
The straps are doing their job right?
I'm the same I keep them an gas well.
But I don't think leaving more rm is against any code I know of.
The one piece staples have stops on them if you don't sink them in a little they stay loose.
No problems I can see!


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Ultrafault said:


> Do wire staples need to be completely tight to count as a support? I leave them loose inside wall cavities for future pulling . It works great. Someone told me it was not up to code and I do not have the foggiest idea of how to defend my position.


Wood, as you know, swells and shrinks with seasonal cycles of dryness and humidity

This has a tendency to tighten/loosen almost any fastener in ones home , including staples.

Insulated staples are a requirement of some states _(Massachooooosits?)_ because of this

~CS~


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Wood, as you know, swells and shrinks with seasonal cycles of dryness and humidity
> 
> This has a tendency to tighten/loosen almost any fastener in ones home , including staples.
> 
> ...


Oh, I thought it was another code(lobbied by manufactures) so that a contractor had to spend more money!


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

IMO staples have done their job after the rock goes up.

If lightning or surges occur the wire will fail where someone over drove a staple.

And, if staples are loose future maintenance is much easier


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

zac said:


> Oh, I thought it was another code(lobbied by manufactures) so that a contractor had to spend more money!


Yea, insulated staples break the bank by adding $0.30 to the job. :laughing:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Nom Deplume said:


> Yea, insulated staples break the bank by adding $0.30 to the job. :laughing:


When properly installed non-insulated staples work excellent. Just another case of either dumbing down for the simpletons that will wire homes of the future or a case of creating a product then finding a need.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Nom Deplume said:


> Yea, insulated staples break the bank by adding $0.30 to the job. :laughing:


But add that with all the other "requirements"!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

zac said:


> But add that with all the other "requirements"!


FAvorite government regulation phrase but it is only pennies per….X 1,000,000,000


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

zac said:


> But add that with all the other "requirements"!


The higher the cost of the job, the higher the profit on the job.
The customer pays, so who cares.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

> 334.30 Securing and Supporting
> Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be supported and *secured* by staples, cable ties, straps, hanger s, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41⁄2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.


If the inspector wants to be picky he could say that you have not secured the cables.


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

i thought it was one of the reason for arc faults?! i remember when my master cussed me out for stapling one too tight one time.. wish they made a real nm stapler gun.. (GB didn't count. heard bad things about it). ive also heard about cardboard as a guide.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Nom Deplume said:


> The higher the cost of the job, the higher the profit on the job.
> The customer pays, so who cares.


Everyone should care as soon the cost of a house will be out reach for some additional consumers.

Seat belts might be uncomfortable for some. So do we need some government agency to mandate Sheep Skin covers for all seat belt because of a few, It is only pennies a car.


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

Bad Electrician said:


> Everyone should care as soon the cost of a house will be out reach for some additional consumers.
> 
> Seat belts might be uncomfortable for some. So do we need some government agency to mandate Sheep Skin covers for all seat belt because of a few, It is only pennies a car.


You are absolutely correct. Using insulated staples is going to price a house out of the reach of buyers.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Nom Deplume said:


> You are absolutely correct. Using insulated staples is going to price a house out of the reach of buyers.


:laughing::thumbup:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

nom deplume said:


> you are absolutely correct. Using insulated staples is going to price a house out of the reach of buyers.


ok…….


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Bad Electrician said:


> Everyone should care as soon the cost of a house will be out reach for some additional consumers.
> 
> Seat belts might be uncomfortable for some. So do we need some government agency to mandate Sheep Skin covers for all seat belt because of a few, It is only pennies a car.


GM and Ford are asking for sq. ft. pricing on seatbelt sheepskins...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> If the inspector wants to be picky he could say that you have not secured the cables.


Then i'd be pointing these out to him>










~CS~


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Nom Deplume said:


> You are absolutely correct. Using insulated staples is going to price a house out of the reach of buyers.


and arc fault breakers, tamper proof recepts, title 24 la la la.
Can lights use to be suitable for 100 watts, now I have to put 2 cans to get the same wattage....hello!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

zac said:


> and arc fault breakers, tamper proof recepts, title 24 la la la.
> Can lights use to be suitable for 100 watts, now I have to put 2 cans to get the same wattage....hello!


Light is measured in lumens, not watts...hello!


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

zac said:


> and arc fault breakers, tamper proof recepts, title 24 la la la.
> Can lights use to be suitable for 100 watts, now I have to put 2 cans to get the same wattage....hello!


Who cares? Just pass the costs along to the customer. That's the way business works. The more the job is worth, the higher my profit will be.
It happens to all of us in our personal life as well.

This thread was about staples.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

99cents said:


> Light is measured in lumens, not watts...hello!


Agreed, but a 100 watt incandescent will throw out more lumens then a 65 watt incandescent. The purpose of my quote was not scientific but realistic.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Nom Deplume said:


> Who cares? Just pass the costs along to the customer. That's the way business works. The more the job is worth, the higher my profit will be.
> It happens to all of us in our personal life as well.
> 
> This thread was about staples.


Right.......give me back my stapler.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Then i'd be pointing these out to him>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the that inspector would hang another red tag


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I usually staple wires with a staple and a hammer or my linemans. How else would you do it?

I just did a new house using new old stock uninsulated staples. Does that make me a hack? I also double up romex under staples and staple 2 rows of cables down 2x4 walls.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> I usually staple wires with a staple and a hammer or my linemans. How else would you do it? I just did a new house using new old stock uninsulated staples. Does that make me a hack? I also double up romex under staples and staple 2 rows of cables down 2x4 walls.


Yes, you are a hack!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> I usually staple wires with a staple and a hammer or my linemans. How else would you do it?...










+


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

zac said:


> Agreed, but a 100 watt incandescent will throw out more lumens then a 65 watt incandescent. The purpose of my quote was not scientific but realistic.


You don't understand photometry.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

99cents said:


> You don't understand photometry.


I understand limiting the output of a fixtures wattage rating includes lumens as well.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> I usually staple wires with a staple and a hammer or my linemans. How else would you do it?
> 
> I just did a new house using new old stock uninsulated staples. Does that make me a hack? I also double up romex under staples and staple 2 rows of cables down 2x4 walls.


Not hack at all.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> +


Garbage. Those things are about as useful as a football bat.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

backstay said:


> Yes, you are a hack!


I also leave little loops in the romex before going into plastic boxes when it's not tract housing.

Hackitysacks!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Per 334.30, you're allowed 12" GC

That's saved this boy a world of trouble in the past

that article also states 

"designed and installed so as not to damage a cable"

Those of us that do old work & renos deal with a variety of _vintage_ wiring, cloth romex, BX, K&T 

Some of this was installed quite some time ago

The structures _(usually wood)_ breath & move, mainly due to the fact that wood is a certain % moisture.

The effects of damage due to an improper install may take time to become evident in said respect

~CS~


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Per 334.30, you're allowed 12" GC
> 
> That's saved this boy a world of trouble in the past
> 
> ...


True. I just wish we could get anaconda Dutrax again. Romex with a real sheath would be the bees knees, instead of the saran wrap they use now. I want anaconda sheath, anaconda copper and no god damn paper.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> Garbage. Those things are about as useful as a football bat.


Not when you're smarter than they are and know how to use them.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Not when you're smarter than they are and know how to use them.


I know how to use them, that doesn't make them any less of a pain in the butt, nor magically higher quality.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Going_Commando said:


> I know how to use them, that doesn't make them any less of a pain in the butt, nor magically higher quality.


I will use that if I am running a cat 5 or a rg -6

But there is no way anyone would be efficient roping a 4,000 sq ft house using that .

That's kinda like hax with his impact drill


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> Garbage. Those things are about as useful as a football bat.


The 3M stackers are also as useful as said bat. The Arlington ones are the only stackers that actually hold the wire in place.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*staples on cat or coax*

I will use that if I am running a cat 5 or a rg -6
THATS STUPID Sorry but it is


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

robnj772 said:


> I will use that if I am running a cat 5 or a rg -6
> 
> But there is no way anyone would be efficient roping a 4,000 sq ft house using that .
> 
> That's kinda like hax with his impact drill


You might as well use a plastic hammer to drive staples if you're going to use an impact gun to drill out a house.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

MTW said:


> You might as well use a plastic hammer to drive staples if you're going to use an impact gun to drill out a house.


We had quite the discussion at tradeworks about that. Pretty amusing, really.

I use romex staples for low voltage stuff too on new resi. For alarm wire and stuff I use a t-25 and t-18 staple gun. Also have a t-37 or whatever for coax.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> I usually staple wires with a staple and a hammer or my linemans. How else would you do it?
> 
> I just did a new house using new old stock uninsulated staples. Does that make me a hack? I also double up romex under staples and staple 2 rows of cables down 2x4 walls.


Commando

I thought you guys have to use insulated staples up there, just like here in moonbatvill, so they are not required in NH?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

reddog552 said:


> I will use that if I am running a cat 5 or a rg -6
> THATS STUPID Sorry but it is


Using a staple gun to run a phone wire or cable line instead of a hammer and staples is stupid?

If I go to a job just to run a phone line I would much rather grab the staple gun and be more efficient. 

In all honesty this entire thread is stupid.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I agree. Stuuuupid thread.....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> I know how to use them, that doesn't make them any less of a pain in the butt, nor magically higher quality.


They're a helluva lot faster than a standard staple and hammer.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

480sparky said:


> They're a helluva lot faster than a standard staple and hammer.


Until it gets jammed or you have to reload.

And there is no way you would be able to use your hand after squeezing that running romex all day.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> i agree. Stuuuupid thread.....


+ + + +


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> We had quite the discussion at tradeworks about that. Pretty amusing, really.
> 
> I use romex staples for low voltage stuff too on new resi. For alarm wire and stuff I use a t-25 and t-18 staple gun. Also have a t-37 or whatever for coax.


Yeah, I saw it. :laughing: I don't care how much torque an impact gun has. There's still no way it beats a real 12 amp electric motor on the Hole Hawg.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Until it gets jammed or you have to reload.


Wow. 5 second reload. And by the time you get out a staple and a hammer, I'm done stapling and movin' on. There's your 5 seconds back. Now repeat that another 50 times.... how much time have you saved?

You gotta think about ALL the time spent, not just one specific portion of the task. ALL of it.

Jammed? Twice in about 14 years.



robnj772 said:


> And there is no way you would be able to use your hand after squeezing that running romex all day.



I can use that thing all WEEK running romex.

You just need to work smart, not hard.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Wow. 5 second reload. And by the time you get out a staple and a hammer, I'm done stapling and movin' on. There's your 5 seconds back. Now repeat that another 50 times.... how much time have you saved? You gotta think about ALL the time spent, not just one specific portion of the task. ALL of it. Jammed? Twice in about 14 years. I can use that thing all WEEK running romex. You just need to work smart, not hard.



Ever Since I saw the Video on you using the ground rod driver everything and anything you ever type just makes me laugh.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Ever Since I saw the Video on you using the ground rod driver everything and anything you ever type just makes me laugh.


I guess I'll quit trying to discuss things with a 5-year-old then.

I'm done with you.


Bye.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> I also leave little loops in the romex before going into plastic boxes when it's not tract housing. Hackitysacks! http://s2.photobucket.com/user/xxxsnapsh0txxx/media/20140606_134124_zpsgoabrto1.jpg.html


Nice portal though.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> Commando
> 
> I thought you guys have to use insulated staples up there, just like here in moonbatvill, so they are not required in NH?


No

But many of us carry ins staples just the same.

~CS~


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Wow. 5 second reload. And by the time you get out a staple and a hammer, I'm done stapling and movin' on. There's your 5 seconds back. Now repeat that another 50 times.... how much time have you saved?
> 
> You gotta think about ALL the time spent, not just one specific portion of the task. ALL of it.
> 
> ...


Oh please, now you're just making yourself look foolish. Just Google "Romex staple gun" and there is a thread on Holts where you say it's hard to beat the old hammer and staples, as you were advising someone NOT to buy a romex staple gun.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> Oh please, now you're just making yourself look foolish. Just Google "Romex staple gun" and there is a thread on Holts where you say it's hard to beat the old hammer and staples, as you were advising someone NOT to buy a romex staple gun.


There is a staple gun that uses insulated staples that jammed every third staple. THAT is the one I advise not to get.

And there _are _some instances in every house rough that a hammer and staple works better. 

Perhaps you should find that thread and read it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

My dad can beat up your dad.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Going_Commando said:


> Oh please, now you're just making yourself look foolish. Just Google "Romex staple gun" and there is a thread on Holts where you say it's hard to beat the old hammer and staples, as you were advising someone NOT to buy a romex staple gun.



You saw his video. 

He hasn't roughed a house in a hundred lbs.

Glorified Maytag repair man. He probably runs about 10 staples a year on service calls.

Same way as haxs thinks the impact gun is great for drilling holes, if you are only drilling two holes on a service call thru 100 year old wood I am sure then thing is fine.


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