# Offset nipple code violation



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Hotlegs said:


> I have read on this site where using a offset nipple between a meter base hub and a piece of rigid conduit is not NEC compliant. The reasons being that the offset nipple is not listed for this use because it's threads are not tapered. Then I saw this pic which is from a "code expert" which looks to be an offset nipple being used in the wrong manner?
> 
> View attachment 20931


I've got no problem with them..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Hotlegs said:


> I have read on this site where using a offset nipple between a meter base hub and a piece of rigid conduit is not NEC compliant. The reasons being that the offset nipple is not listed for this use because it's threads are not tapered. Then I saw this pic which is from a "code expert" which looks to be an offset nipple being used in the wrong manner?
> 
> View attachment 20931


Everyone makes mistakes and the code expert is not the artist. 

It is a fact that using a offset nipple into a hub is a listing violtion. Of course an inspector can choose to allow it anyway.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Are you sure the article you read is not about a PVC offset nipple, According to UL they have not been tested for hubs.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is the article I posted earlier



> Grounding and Bonding Hubs — Grounding and bonding hubs are
> Listed hubs (see DWTT) provided with a Listed grounding or bonding locknut.
> They serve in a manner similar to grounding and bonding bushings
> except they are only for use with threaded rigid metal and intermediate
> ...


Most hubs are rated for grounding or bonding so does this mean you loose the bond if you use PVC or does it mean it not listed for pvc fittings. I will say that I have never seen anyone get cited for this and there are millions of these instlls all over the place without an issue with water.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

The meter hub has not been tested for a PVC male adapter and that makes it a listing violtion to use one with a hub.

But, I also see it commonly done, keep in mind even ULs postion is that it is up to the AHJ to determine if the use of a listed product is within the limits of the listing.

That can be found in the back of the white book under 'field modifications'


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

My understanding is that many products are just not tested for those situations so UL cannot say it is acceptable. The manufacturer sets some of the standards for which UL will test their product. The pvc companies probably didn't want to pay for a test that was already done with the rigid conduit.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> My understanding is that many products are just not tested for those situations so UL cannot say it is acceptable. The manufacturer sets some of the standards for which UL will test their product. The pvc companies probably didn't want to pay for a test that was already done with the rigid conduit.


I think that sums it up nicely and is pretty much what UL says in the section I mentioned.


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## Hotlegs (Oct 9, 2011)

I usually use a 2" offset nipple between my hub and rigid service riser. It's never been turned down, yet! I just couldn't imagine having to go back and remove one after finishing a service change out if an inspector ever turned it down .


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Why do you use an offset nipple between the riser and the hub. I go straight in with standoff straps. The hub usually can be turned so the hole is closer in one direction.


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## Hotlegs (Oct 9, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Why do you use an offset nipple between the riser and the hub. I go straight in with standoff straps. The hub usually can be turned so the hole is closer in one direction.


Usually the home is brick and I will mount the meter base to the brick. About 3' up from the meter base is a 2X6 and on top another trim board. If I turn the hub out its still not out far enough to clear the boards that are in the way above the meter. Notching the 2X6 hasn't worked for me . 

Sometimes the new meter just doesnt line up with the 2" hole in the roof so the 2" offset nipple allows just enough twist to make the 2" rigid perpendicular and not crooked . 

I think I tried notching the 2X6 one time and it was a mess as it exposed the attic and there was nothing to screw the 2 sides of the 2X6 back to.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Sorry for the necro.
In my service area offset nipples are not allowed to be used in hub and neither are PVC terminal adapters.
Reasoning for PVC not being allowed is the listing as stated.
Same goes for the offset nipple.
Was kinda a pain to comply with at first.

Instead of using an offset nipple i just put some blocking/ shims behind my straps and use a laser to line up my hole through the roof.

Instead of T/A I just use a 4" rigid nipple and slap a Female T/A on it. (looks like ****, and rust out quicker than any other part of the service, but it is what it is and that is compliant.)


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## CooperElec (May 6, 2013)

forgotflying said:


> Sorry for the necro.
> In my service area offset nipples are not allowed to be used in hub and neither are PVC terminal adapters.
> Reasoning for PVC not being allowed is the listing as stated.
> Same goes for the offset nipple.
> ...


I think that is a perfect example of the code creating a bad installation and it's also leading to people not getting inspections and saying "screw it" when it comes to worrying about code compliancy.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

CooperElec said:


> I think that is a perfect example of the code creating a bad installation and it's also leading to people not getting inspections and saying "screw it" when it comes to worrying about code compliancy.


It is not the NEC making the violation, it is the manufactures of the products not paying UL to test them for these applications.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

CooperElec said:


> I think that is a perfect example of the code creating a bad installation and it's also leading to people not getting inspections and saying "screw it" when it comes to worrying about code compliancy.


I agree 100%, it's a total load of BS. When has a male T/A ever been a problem, and the same goes for the off-set nipple as well.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It is not the NEC making the violation, it is the manufactures of the products not paying UL to test them for these applications.


Doesn't the NEC require UL listed products???:jester::jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

forgotflying said:


> Doesn't the NEC require UL listed products???:jester::jester:


In some cases yes.

Do you see that as a bad requirement?

Imagine the crap from China we would see without that rule.


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## CooperElec (May 6, 2013)

BBQ said:


> It is not the NEC making the violation, it is the manufactures of the products not paying UL to test them for these applications.


The NEC is making it a violation.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

CooperElec said:


> The NEC is making it a violation.


Let me ask you the question, how would you fix it?


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

BBQ i wasn't serious.. I understand the whole china thing.
It is a combination of the manufacturer being cheap and the UL being expensive.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

My understanding of the issue is that offset nipples, conduit connectors, cable connectors, and flexible conduit connectors are all made with straight threads and the hubs are listed for use with threaded conduit. Threaded conduit has a 3/4" per foot tapered thread.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

Am I the only one who could only thread a PVC offset nipple halfway into the meter hub before it gets too tight? I hate having to much thread showing.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Yes you are, and your the reason why i can't do this anymore.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

forgotflying said:


> Yes you are, and your the reason why i can't do this anymore.


*you're


Can't do what anymore?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tensil said:


> Can't do what anymore?


Go back and read this whole thread.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Go back and read this whole thread.


You don't have to. I'm just wondering if other people crank the crap out of PVC offset nipples to get them to go in all the way (and hoping they don't crack) or just tighten them moderately and leave the half inch of threads exposed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tensil said:


> You don't have to. I'm just wondering if other people crank the crap out of PVC offset nipples to get them to go in all the way (and hoping they don't crack) or just tighten them moderately and leave the half inch of threads exposed.


What you are describing is an NEC violation. 

But if you insist on doing it anyway try putting some PVC cement on the threads as a lubricant and it will go in.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

BBQ said:


> What you are describing is an NEC violation.
> 
> But if you insist on doing it anyway try putting some PVC cement on the threads as a lubricant and it will go in.


Sure, it's a violation, but it's also extremely common to do. What other choice do you have with a PVC riser? 

Thanks for the tip. I was actually thinking to use silicone as a lubricant since it would seal the threads afterwords. Maybe PVC cement is better tho...


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Tensil said:


> Sure, it's a violation, but it's also extremely common to do. What other choice do you have with a PVC riser?
> 
> Thanks for the tip. I was actually thinking to use silicone as a lubricant since it would seal the threads afterwords. Maybe PVC cement is better tho...


Use schedule 80 and thread it. Then it can go into meter hubs legally. 


And as for the metal riser issue for the gap between the building finish and the conduit and how to deal with it, go buy a 555 bender and learn how to use it. Anything less than that and you shouldn't be doing electrical contracting anyway you hacks......


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tensil said:


> Sure, it's a violation, but it's also extremely common to do. What other choice do you have with a PVC riser?


I have never needed an offset fitting out of a meter hub. Never and I can't say I have seen others do it, sounds ugly. 





> Thanks for the tip. I was actually thinking to use silicone as a lubricant since it would seal the threads afterwords. Maybe PVC cement is better tho...


That would work but the advantage of PVC cement is it softens the plastic allowing it to deform a bit.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Use schedule 80 and thread it. Then it can go into meter hubs legally.


Reason 342 why you are called a lunatic. :laughing:


Go troll a conspiracy thread.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

BBQ said:


> I have never needed an offset fitting out of a meter hub. Never and I can't say I have seen others do it, sounds ugly.


 How do you bring PVC out of a meter hub? 

Around here EC's use either a PVC offset nipple or a male adapter. Neither of which are listed for a meter hub. The offset nipple is nice because you don't have to either bend the PVC to offset it back to the wall or come straight out and stand the pipe 3/4" off the wall.

The only other option is threading sch 80, which I have never heard of for a resi service.



> That would work but the advantage of PVC cement is it softens the plastic allowing it to deform a bit.


Gotcha, good advice, I knew I liked you for a reason :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tensil said:


> How do you bring PVC out of a meter hub?


I screw a male adapter into the hub, a violation in itself and run the PVC out of that. The 18" or so the PVC is off the wall 5/8" to nothing does not bother me a bit and looks better than an offset fitting. If it really bothers you just heat the PVC and make a small off set in it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tensil said:


> Gotcha, good advice, I knew I liked you for a reason :thumbsup:


You do more damage to NJs rep then almost any other human.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Can you really thread schedule 80 and it be Kosher?


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

BBQ said:


> You do more damage to NJs rep then almost any other human.


But I still like you :thumbup:

I went and tried your idea with the PVC cement. I was able to get 1 more turn but it's still not all the way in. 

I actually tried 2 different offset nipples that I had, both were the same.

I'll just fill in the space with duct seal.


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## MeAgain (May 5, 2013)

nolabama said:


> Can you really thread schedule 80 and it be Kosher?


It doesn't necessarily mean PVC.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Tensil said:


> **you're*
> 
> 
> Can't do what anymore?


Thanks bro maybe you found you calling as an English teacher.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

forgotflying said:


> Thanks bro maybe you found you calling as an English teacher.



*your


Why won't you answer me?


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Use offset nipples in hubs, what else would I be talking about.
Because fools be leaving threads hanging out.............

You definitely should re-roll English teacher.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

forgotflying said:


> Use offset nipples in hubs, what else would I be talking about.
> Because fools be leaving threads hanging out.............
> 
> You definitely should re-roll English teacher.


Is this real life?


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Look at the title of the thread your in.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

forgotflying said:


> Look at the title of the thread your in.


*you're


Why are you messing with me? I thought we were friends?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't know anyone who has been called on a pvc connector in the hub but you could screw a metal short nipple and then add a coupling on the end of it. Screw the connector into that.. Lots more money for a silly reason.

Yes, I have had problems at times fitting a PVC connector in the hub but other times it goes in fine. Generally we don't do many overhead services around here.


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## Tensil (May 8, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't know anyone who has been called on a pvc connector in the hub but you could screw a metal short nipple and then add a coupling on the end of it. Screw the connector into that.. Lots more money for a silly reason.


So that would be complaint? I figured the PVC connector wouldn't be listed for the rigid coupling either. Same issue with the different thread pitch.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't know anyone who has been called on a pvc connector in the hub but you could screw a metal short nipple and then add a coupling on the end of it. Screw the connector into that.. Lots more money for a silly reason.


Well now you do.
Passing an inspection is not a silly reason.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

nolabama said:


> Can you really thread schedule 80 and it be Kosher?


You certainly can. Most carny's have no idea about that though. They can however tell you everything you ever wanted to know about cam locks and running extension cords all over the place.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

nolabama said:


> Can you really thread schedule 80 and it be Kosher?





macmikeman said:


> You certainly can. Most carny's have no idea about that though. They can however tell you everything you ever wanted to know about cam locks and running extension cords all over the place.


Funny, in the RMC and IMC articles you will find sections (.28) that talk about feild threading those products but in the PVC article those words are not there.

In this carneys opinion mike is nuts, you cannot code compliantly thread PVC.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> The meter hub has not been tested for a PVC male adapter and that makes it a listing violtion to use one with a hub.
> 
> But, I also see it commonly done, keep in mind even ULs postion is that it is up to the AHJ to determine if the use of a listed product is within the limits of the listing.
> 
> That can be found in the back of the white book under 'field modifications'


They do manufacture PVC hubs just for that purpose , I think anyone who would buy a metal hub and put a male adapter on it is plain foolish.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Hopefully i can convince local supply house to start carrying these.









PVC service entrance hub


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Funny, in the RMC and IMC articles you will find sections (.28) that talk about feild threading those products but in the PVC article those words are not there.
> 
> In this carneys opinion mike is nuts, you cannot code compliantly thread PVC.


I've threaded PVC before when I needed length specific nipples between two tubs. It worked well and I'll do it again if I have to! Haha


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> I've threaded PVC before when I needed length specific nipples between two tubs. It worked well and I'll do it again if I have to! Haha


Try to follow along, nolabama's question wasn't 'Could it be done?' It was 'Could it be done code compliantly?'


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Try to follow along, nolabama's question wasn't 'Could it be done?' It was 'Could it be done code compliantly?'


blah blah NEC blah blah UL blah blah vioaltions blah blah. who gives a flying ****. :thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> blah blah NEC blah blah UL blah blah vioaltions blah blah. who gives a flying ****. :thumbup:


Apparently Nolabama and people who actually get inspections. :thumbup:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Well I figure if I do something utterly insane as threading PVC I better be right. If I failed after doing that , well then shame on me.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Apparently Nolabama and people who actually get inspections. :thumbup:


What is these inspections you speak of?? Most inspectors around here wouldn't even know to look for that. At first glance it looks just like all threaded PVC which is popular as well


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

That is why I I like to run cable.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> You certainly can. Most carny's have no idea about that though. They can however tell you everything you ever wanted to know about cam locks and running extension cords all over the place.


That's funny as hell. It's close to what I do now, and I see it everyday. Funny thing is, it's generally safe. LMAO:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Hotlegs said:


> I have read on this site where using a offset nipple between a meter base hub and a piece of rigid conduit is not NEC compliant. The reasons being that the offset nipple is not listed for this use because it's threads are not tapered. Then I saw this pic which is from a "code expert" which looks to be an offset nipple being used in the wrong manner?
> 
> View attachment 20931


A riser must be SE grounded which is 5 threads wrench tight. An offset nipple is constructed for shoulder/locknut use. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> A riser must be SE grounded which is 5 threads wrench tight.


:no:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Some 3 decades ago a fellow apprentice and i walked into a local hardware store where he asked the rather well endowed lady behind the counter if she had *offset nipples*........:whistling2:

It was _wrong_ then, and it's still_ wrong_ now.....


~CS~


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Some 3 decades ago a fellow apprentice and i walked into a local hardware store where he asked the rather well endowed lady behind the counter if she had offset nipples........:whistling2:
> 
> It was wrong then, and it's still wrong now.....
> 
> ~CS~


Should have asked her where you could get a hickey.


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