# LED Fixtures: replaceable LED bulbs vs. LED fixtures that have to be replaced



## cmdr_suds (Jul 29, 2016)

Do you go for the fixture that can use standard LED bulbs that can be replaced when they die or do you have no problem with fixtures that use built in, non-replaceable LEDs? If you use the non-repairable fixture, what's been your experience long term?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Fluorescent style?


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

For indicator lights that’s one thing.

But a fluorescent or incandescent fixture is not optimized for LED. It’s horribly inefficient. As a way to “upgrade” say a table lamp that is more decorative than a light source that’s one thing but to buy say a fluorescent troffer and put Chinese LED lights in it...dumb, dumb, dumb. You will get twice the light (or half the wattage) out of a proper fixture. I don’t care what tubular LED bulbs say for three reasons. First real fixtures with the same specs are noticeably much brighter. Second all the Chinese stuff off Amazon and even Lowe’s never, ever actually meets specs when tested, IF it even lists specs. Third look at the size of a heat sink on a real LED fixture. It’s huge because LED life is cut in half for every 10 degrees temperature rise. No way those Chinese bulbs are lasting 100,000 hours.

Here’s the thing. LED efficiency has been in “free fall” since the 1970s. Like computers the power and efficiency keeps increasing every YEAR. If say Holothane comes out with their latest fixture this year, next year they will be putting 2/3rds to half as many LEDs in it to meet the same specs. They can’t buy this years LEDs...those are obsoleted. And by year 3 or 4 the whole fixture has to be redesigned because it won’t work with the LEDs on the market then. So that’s why they don’t make replaceable lamps for LED fixtures...by the time you need one it’s hopelessly obsolete.

So if you want to “future proof” buy the most efficient best LED fixture for the money now but recognize its disposable. You won’t be changing it for at least ten years if you buy a decent one anyway. Fixtures can be changed in 10-20 minutes. Bulbs in 5-10 minutes. So did you save money if your Chinese bulb has to be changed 3 times more often and triples the labor and cost? Nope. It just takes longer when it has to be changed.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

My new house was required to be 80% LED. I have a bunch of can lights in the ceilings. I used the basic Halo H7s, designed for incandescent, and installed 'replacement' LEDs. This way, when they fail, I can easily replace them with other LEDs or go to incandescent. 

From what I've seen, LED technology has come a long way but it still has a long way to go.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

For linear fluorescent, I dont bother with the LED tubes. I either stick with fluorescent or use a fixture designed for LED.

For everything else, I prefer fixtures that can take any bulb type.


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## cmdr_suds (Jul 29, 2016)

Where I’m coming from is, recently my wife went out and bought a new bathroom fan and light unit that had a LED light panel in it that was about 10” square. I was trying to figure out what would happen if the LED failed. If the unit simply had a screw base for a bulb, no big deal. I have looked at the manual and online and it seems that the manufacturer does not sell the light panel as a replacement part. The only option it seems I would have would be to replace the entire unit.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Almost always, fixtures are supplied. The last time I bought T-bar fixtures it was an old spec calling for fluorescents. Lowe’s was clearing out Cooper troffers for something like $12.00 each. I cleaned out the inventory from every store in town. I love it when that happens.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

cmdr_suds said:


> Where I’m coming from is, recently my wife went out and bought a new bathroom fan and light unit that had a LED light panel in it that was about 10” square. I was trying to figure out what would happen if the LED failed. If the unit simply had a screw base for a bulb, no big deal. I have looked at the manual and online and it seems that the manufacturer does not sell the light panel as a replacement part. The only option it seems I would have would be to replace the entire unit.


And there, in a nutshell, is the problem with LED fixtures. They don't last forever. And even brand names have early failures. And when you go buy a replacement for that 4yo fixture, you will find it's obsolete and the replacement is _not_ quite the same as the failed one. Different finish, slightly different color and when you get right down to it, the new "disposable" fixtures, although they save you money on power, they might not be the best bang for your buck if you have to replace the entire fixture before you've realized any savings. I've already started running into this with fixtures that are only 5 years old.

I'm still going with bypass tubes where ever I can. The last bypass tubes I bought were just a shade over $6.00CAD. Even if they are replaced 5 years down the road they will at least have saved the owner enough money that the tubes will have paid for themselves. And the owner can change the lamps himself and the fixture will still look the same after he's done.

Don't get me wrong, LED have come a long way and continue to get better. I'm just not 100% sold on LED fixtures yet.

As a side, it seems to me that outdoor LED fixtures seem to have a longer life than indoor. Maybe it's the cooling, I don't know.


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't like the t8 led bulbs above 10 feet.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I had to run 2 lotus wafers back to the place of purchase recent, they didn't last a year. Since I put in over a hundred at the place, my knees are kinda knocking right now. I'm 7 months in out of 12 legally. Morally I need at least 5 yrs to turn my back on the owner after pushing this stuff at them.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I mainly use lithonia wafers. I've only had one fail so far. Outdoor in a soffit.


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## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

What is overlooked is the color temperature of LED lights varies from 2700K to 6500K and so one can have a warm tungsten like look or a very cold hospital operating room look. Not every light in every location or by every user of the space is going to work with one Kelvin color hue. With fixtures using A19 bulbs it takes a few minutes to change the color temperature of the light in a room. In a warehouse of garage or dental office the light desired is quite different than what most people want in their homes. 

When the first CFL and LED light bulbs were introduced the drivers would fail from heat but that has not been a problem for at least the past 10 years. Most bulbs are dimmable which is also important for residential use. 

For "lighting design" it is far more than what is easiest to install in a space and the electrian is the least qualified person to make the decisions about "lighting". The electrician should be focused on the how and not the what aspects.


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## micky760 (Mar 22, 2021)

Depends on what your client wants - do they want cheap or do they want the best???

I've never had a problem with the LED T8 style tubes, either ones that use the existing ballast or ones that bypass it - some can do both like these ones: 15W 4FT LED T8 Tubes - NX-Series - 5000K - Replaces 32W FL Tubes - 10 Per Box

Not all LED retrofit tubes are created equal so I'd do your research on them but Ive also had good luck with the Phillips ones from HD. But yeah I'm really baffled as to the guys who are saying their not worth it - its considerably more efficient than fluorescents, especially when direct wired.

The purpose built LED fixtures are definitely gonna be the most efficient since their designed to be LED from day one. Most new ones are rated for years of operation and the client will prob wanna remodel with new fixtures anyways before they burn out.


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