# I could be home......



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I could be home by now (noonish) posting pictures Of this service change but ive been sitting on my ass for hours waiting for poco disconnect. Ive worked backwards on a bunch of stuff and have done absolutely everything I can. I could be out of here in an hour and a half if the ****ers would show up.

Its too effing hot.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I thought you always did the disconnect yourself instead of waiting for them to show up..


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

In the olden days. Im trying to be legitimate here but they make it so damn hard. The last couple times they judt taped the hot wires anyway. Effing stupid.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

That sucks, ever panel change I do, I cut 'em myself. Only reason I need POCO is for a spot and to throw away my split bolts once I pass inspection.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

220/221 said:


> In the olden days. Im trying to be legitimate here but they make it so damn hard. The last couple times they judt taped the hot wires anyway. Effing stupid.



Here I just do it and after the inspector looks at it the power company receives a reconnect work order. They come out and crimp it. My next investment is a poco style crimp tool. New they are like 800.00....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I guess i was the only EC working in NEPA a few years back doing my own disconnects and reconnects. it's a way of life around here.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Strange to hear all you guys disconnecting/connecting your service conductors or even pulling a meter. If we do that, there better have been some sparks flying  or we can't touch them.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Little-Lectric said:


> Strange to hear all you guys disconnecting/connecting your service conductors or even pulling a meter. If we do that, there better have been some sparks flying  or we can't touch them.


So included in your bid for a panel change is potentially a bunch of down time?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

jwjrw said:


> Here I just do it and after the inspector looks at it the power company receives a reconnect work order. They come out and crimp it. My next investment is a poco style crimp tool. New they are like 800.00....


 I use one of these

With or with out a set of these


To crimp these









$300 for the crimper
$80 for a set of dies
$3 for the tap

I only have to have 1 set of dies as the crimper does some without dies.


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## knothole (Mar 10, 2007)

Our poco is good about showing up when you call them. Yeah, we used to pull our own meters but not anymore. They want to roast you if you do.
At one time I carried as many clip locks as they did.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

I made the Poco guys wait on me today :laughing:
They showed up a 1/2 hour early.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Here I just do it and after the inspector looks at it the power company receives a reconnect work order. They come out and crimp it. My next investment is a poco style crimp tool. New they are like 800.00....


I'm surprised your POCO still uses crimps.. here they use H taps and we get them for free to re-connect the service instead of the POCO having to send a truck out..

They save money and we save time.. a WIN WIN.. how is that even possible.. :laughing:

Pm me a mailing address and I will send you one.. take it to the POCO and tell them the guys up in NY have a much better system.. :whistling2:


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> I'm surprised your POCO still uses crimps.. here they use H taps


Aren't H-Taps what many people would also consider Crimps?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

forgotflying said:


> I made the Poco guys wait on me today :laughing:
> They showed up a 1/2 hour early.


 











These guys were waiting on me for this one. We hit a chunk of concrete where the underground came under the new meter location.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Current said:


> Aren't H-Taps what many people would also consider Crimps?


There are a couple of names these connectors go by.. it is a split bolt with a bolt and nut through the middle..

It has anti-oxidant already installed and it gets covered by a black boot that has "feathered" edges where the conductors exit..


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> There are a couple of names these connectors go by.. it is a split bolt with a bolt and nut through the middle..
> 
> It has anti-oxidant already installed and it gets covered by a black boot that has "feathered" edges where the conductors exit..


Oh, so it's mechanical connector? I thought you meant something like what backstay pictured above.

I find those crimps to be much easier and quicker than dealing with nuts and bolts.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Current said:


> Aren't H-Taps what many people would also consider Crimps?


This is what all the pocos I deal with use, we call them H-taps.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> There are a couple of names these connectors go by.. it is a split bolt with a bolt and nut through the middle..
> 
> It has anti-oxidant already installed and it gets covered by a black boot that has "feathered" edges where the conductors exit..


Is this what you are referencing?








The utility just calls them one bolts here and the only time I really have seen them use those is during the recent tornado they had because I think they ran out of crimps.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Is this what you are referencing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep.. that is it.. :thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> I'm surprised your POCO still uses crimps.. here they use H taps and we get them for free to re-connect the service instead of the POCO having to send a truck out..
> 
> They save money and we save time.. a WIN WIN.. how is that even possible.. :laughing:
> 
> Pm me a mailing address and I will send you one.. take it to the POCO and tell them the guys up in NY have a much better system.. :whistling2:


Contrary to what self centered New Yorkers believe, the rest of the world does not revolve around what goes on in New York. :no:


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> Yep.. that is it.. :thumbsup:


Yeah, those suck. The H-Taps pictured above that get crimped closed are much better.



B4T said:


> I'm surprised your POCO still uses crimps.. here they use H taps and we get them for free to re-connect the service instead of the POCO having to send a truck out..
> 
> They save money and we save time.. a WIN WIN.. how is that even possible.. :laughing:
> 
> Pm me a mailing address and I will send you one.. take it to the POCO and tell them the guys up in NY have a much better system.. :whistling2:


The devices that you use take more time and cost more money, as usual you are 180 degrees from being accurate. Maybe backstay can send you the H-Tap and you can bring it to your POCO to show them the much better system that everyone else uses?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Contrary to what self centered New Yorkers believe, the rest of the world does not revolve around what goes on in New York. :no:


So are you saying that the POCO does the cut over for you?

They don't do that here.
that is in the NSTAR Blue book page 15.



> 5. Who performs permanent connections?
> On all service upgrades or replacement of damaged service
> entrance cables, the electrician makes permanent connections
> on all overhead services at the weather head and on all
> underground services in the terminal box.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> So are you saying that the POCO does the cut over for you?
> 
> They don't do that here.
> that is in the NSTAR Blue book page 15.


WTF are you talking about?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> WTF are you talking about?


So are you saying that the POCO does the cut over for you?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> So are you saying that the POCO does the cut over for you?


When did I say that???????????? I didn't.

But I'll answer any way. 99.9 percent of the time I disconnect and reconnect when I do a service upgrade.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> When did I say that???????????? I didn't.
> 
> But I'll answer any way. 99.9 percent of the time I disconnect and reconnect when I do a service upgrade.


Oh!..:laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> View attachment 8230
> 
> 
> 
> These guys were waiting on me for this one. We hit a chunk of concrete where the underground came under the new meter location.


 

I guess the guy in the bucket needed a better optical perspective on the trench.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

randomkiller said:


> I guess the guy in the bucket needed a better optical perspective on the trench.


Same thing I was thinking as well, But hey why not mess around while you have the time.:whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Current said:


> The devices that you use take more time and cost more money, as usual you are 180 degrees from being accurate. Maybe backstay can send you the H-Tap and you can bring it to your POCO to show them the much better system that everyone else uses?


A nut and bolt connection makes it easier to disconnect and reconnect a service without getting the POCO involved..

So LIPA has no clue WTF they are doing because Current says so.. :no:


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> A nut and bolt connection makes it easier to disconnect and reconnect a service without getting the POCO involved..


 NO, it does not. Cutting off the crimp and installing a new one is always faster and easier than dealing with mechanical connectors, especially when working hot.


> So LIPA has no clue WTF they are doing because Current says so.. :no:


This is why most people see you as an idiot, because you just don't have common sense.

YOU are the person who said that every other POCO should do as LIPA does. You're even willing to send the taps out for other POCO's to sample  

Use your head, think for yourself. A $3 crimp that most other POCO's use is superior to the mechanical connector that your POCO uses.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Current said:


> NO, it does not. Cutting off the crimp and installing a new one is always faster and easier than dealing with mechanical connectors, especially when working hot.
> 
> This is why most people see you as an idiot, because you just don't have common sense.


Hack.. your an asshole.. pure and simple.. :thumbsup:


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> Hack.. your an asshole.. pure and simple.. :thumbsup:


Why, because I am accurate? Because I don't go along with your bologna? Seriously, your ways are antiquated, yet you preach that we all should follow what you do. Sorry that not everyone will get on their knees and thank you for bestowing your vast knowledge of crap on us 


BTW, "your" should be "you're". This is remedial...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Current said:


> Why, because I am accurate? Because I don't go along with your bologna? Seriously, your ways are antiquated, yet you preach that we all should follow what you do. Sorry that not everyone will get on their knees and thank you for bestowing your vast knowledge of crap on us


Everything here is about choices and opinions and the reader can choose what works best for him..

I am just posting what I have found out along the way.. you think it's lame.. avoid reading my posts if it upsets you so much..

Why is it I don't see others here voicing this negative opinion of me.. it is just you, Pete, Scott, and Speedy.. I can live with that.. :thumbsup:

As I have said many times before.. I could care less what anyone here thinks of me or my work..


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

B4T said:


> Why is it I don't see others here voicing this negative opinion of me.. it is just you, Pete, Scott, and Speedy.. I can live with that.. :thumbsup:


 We're just the open, honest people. Most other people just roll their eyes and ignore you or make little quips.


> As I have said many times before.. I could care less what anyone here thinks of me or my work..


That's not true. When I called you a hack you got so upset that you said you were going to come here to attack me and "rearrange my face" among other things. That proves that you care.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

randomkiller said:


> I guess the guy in the bucket needed a better optical perspective on the trench.


They were getting ready to set a pole and transformer. I knew I had plenty of time to do my side. NOT...


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

B4T said:


> It has anti-oxidant already installed .


AL-NOX ? Or is this the new vitamin supplement for wires? J/K

That's just a weird way to word it although I guess its not really
Wrong , anyways, just a thought. LOL. ( Mabey?!?). 

Not starting a grammar class just notable mention I guess.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I prefer to use crimps instead of parallel groove taps too.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

B W E said:


> So included in your bid for a panel change is potentially a bunch of down time?


Not usually, it is better if you can give them a day or so notice though. They are much faster at re-connect than disconnecting, but haven't had any problems *yet*.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

B W E said:


> That sucks, ever panel change I do, I cut 'em myself. Only reason I need POCO is for a spot and to throw away my split bolts once I pass inspection.


I used to waste split bolts on the reconnect, now I just use wirenuts!


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Here I just do it and after the inspector looks at it the power company receives a reconnect work order. They come out and crimp it. My next investment is a poco style crimp tool. New they are like 800.00....


Burndy MD6-8. You don't need any dies for #6-4/0
I paid $60 for mine and I get 3 crimps and 2 insulators cheaper than one AL rated 4/0 split bolt.. paid for itself in just a few service changes.


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

randas said:


> Burndy MD6-8. You don't need any dies for #6-4/0
> I paid $60 for mine and I get 3 crimps and 2 insulators cheaper than one AL rated 4/0 split bolt.. paid for itself in just a few service changes.


Which crimps do you use? Do you have the exact model numbers?


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

We replaced a broken meter socket on a home with an underground service and the power company had two guys out there after hours, located the hand hole, shoveled, disconnected, went to get dinner, and then came back for the reconnect.

I cant imagine leaving it up to the electrician to disconnect the hand hole. We had no idea where it was while they had a map.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

I_get_shocked said:


> We replaced a broken meter socket on a home with an underground service and the power company had two guys out there after hours, located the hand hole, shoveled, disconnected, went to get dinner, and then came back for the reconnect.
> 
> I cant imagine leaving it up to the electrician to disconnect the hand hole. We had no idea where it was while they had a map.


Forget the hand hole, line the can with cardboard and get'er done :laughing:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I do it all myself....eff them, im not wasting my time. I use the cheap allen screw connectors, about 6 bucks a piece. THe power company pretty much gets rid of my connectors and uses their own split bolts... For what its worth the only PPE I ever see them wear while rebugging in is glasses and plain leather gloves ....


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

If you ladies are done with your crimp discussion, I think ive figured out how to post pics from my phone( no internet at home yet).
This is the service. Typical of an 80s 200a. Just about Everything in there is twinned, even the stock stuff. Main breaker failed, b phase.









Posting from a phone is a pita.



This should of been a short days work.










I didnt have a in use cover and ill be back to strap the pvc and clean uo the cable when we trim out the remodel inside.





























I didnt get out of there until six pm. I sent my help home at eleven.

When poco guy showed up at 3:00, he agreed to stick around for a few minutes and re energize. He didnt disconnect at the jbox, just taped the wires. Im fine with that if you tape them good and be careful.

He didnt tape them good and I got stung. My bare arm was touching the bundled romexes and the old bare pipe bond.
****rr!! 

Had the new one up in 10 minutes and he left the meter and seals for me which they never do. City inspector never showed so I plugged it in, turned it on and draged my ass home.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

220/221 said:


> If you ladies are done with your crimp discussion, I think ive figured out how to post pics from my phone( no internet at home yet).
> This is the service. Typical of an 80s 200a. Just about Everything in there is twinned, even the stock stuff. Main breaker failed, b phase.
> 
> 
> ...



Nice tent..:laughing:

So the POCO Guy just pulled the wires off at the panel and taped them.?


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> Is this what you are referencing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Around these parts we call them PE bugs.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> So the POCO Guy just pulled the wires off at the panel and taped them.?



Thats what the do most of the time. They are supposed to disco at the transformer or jb but there always seems to be a reason they cant do it. I dont argue because I dont get paid hourly and I want to get the done and go home.

Its a litle tricky to set the panel over the se conductors, line up any other underground pipe (pool) and feed the home runs in the back. Im always afraid the raw edge of the ko will bite thru in insulation and hurt somebody or blow a hole in the panel and cost a few hours more work. Its SO much easier not to mention smarter/safer eRto do it deenergizEd but, the show must go on.

And the tent is a must have. It is freaking hot here. I almost picked up a real canopy at costco but, times are still tough and, if worked.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

I come here in peace to say that this is a clean looking install. :thumbup: HUGE improvement over the original. 

I am curious about the grey cables going over to the right side DP breakers...what are they? I haven't seen cables like them (with two black conductors) before.


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

B W E said:


> That sucks, ever panel change I do, I cut 'em myself. Only reason I need POCO is for a spot and to throw away my split bolts once I pass inspection.


We are not allowed to pull the meter or cut the lines, unless it's a matter of life or death. $10,000 fine if you do.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


>


Is that snap in bushing cut? You forgot to put it in before you fed the nm through and mounted the panel didn't you :laughing:



mxslick said:


> I am curious about the grey cables going over to the right side DP breakers...what are they? I haven't seen cables like them (with two black conductors) before.


Looks like SE, that was the thing here, 240 appliances got SE back in the day.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mxslick said:


> I come here in peace to say that this is a clean looking install. :thumbup: HUGE improvement over the original.
> 
> I am curious about the grey cables going over to the right side DP breakers...what are they? I haven't seen cables like them (with two black conductors) before.


The gray cables are the dreaded SEU type.. most likely 8/3..

They were used for stoves.. dryers.. and central AC units for many years till stoves and dryers needed a separate neutral..

It is an urban myth that hanging your socks on SEU cable run in basements here on Long Island will dry just as fast as placing them in the dryer itself..
:laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Yeah slick, those are #6 AL SE cables. Before the late 80s, that is what everyone here used for 240 circuits.se is still sometimes used on ac circuits but most everything now is nm.
I thought you were going to ask why I ran them doen the right side instead of the more flecible nm,s. I was asking myself that the whole time I was fighting them.


And J, I didnt forget the bushing. For some reason the 2.5" bushings dont fit in a 2.5" hole. I cuss about this every time I have to use one.


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## ChrisK (Jun 11, 2011)

You can still use SE, it just needs to be SER instead of SEU so you have the EGC. Way less expensive than copper nm.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> And J, I didnt forget the bushing. For some reason the 2.5" bushings dont fit in a 2.5" hole. I cuss about this every time I have to use one.


Huh never used a 2.5 bushing before. I stock 2 and then jump right to 3


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Is that snap in bushing cut? You forgot to put it in before you fed the nm through and mounted the panel didn't you :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like SE, that was the thing here, 240 appliances got SE back in the day.





B4T said:


> The gray cables are the dreaded SEU type.. most likely 8/3..
> 
> They were used for stoves.. dryers.. and central AC units for many years till stoves and dryers needed a separate neutral..
> 
> ...





220/221 said:


> Yeah slick, those are #6 AL SE cables. Before the late 80s, that is what everyone here used for 240 circuits.se is still sometimes used on ac circuits but most everything now is nm.
> I thought you were going to ask why I ran them doen the right side instead of the more flecible nm,s. I was asking myself that the whole time I was fighting them.
> 
> 
> And J, I didnt forget the bushing. For some reason the 2.5" bushings dont fit in a 2.5" hole. I cuss about this every time I have to use one.


Thanks guys..I had one of those Doh! moments when I saw your replies....I should have recognized it..when I was working at my dream job (for and EC doing the second phase of my apartment complex in Madera, Ca.) we used it to wire for the electric ranges. 

As for right side/left side, it seems it is a bit more roomy to go down the right...because of the wire to the main I guess. The important thing is that it works. :thumbup:


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## dotrat103 (May 4, 2011)

With all this talk of what people use for temp connections, I'm suprised nobody admitted to still using duplex connectors.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Current said:


> Which crimps do you use? Do you have the exact model numbers?


http://www.ilsco.com/ProductsDetail...=nZ3tm+QctywPFOTWUdeigDEDITabQcio4B0u0yquk64=

I hope the link works. These are the crimps I use.
All of these you can crimp with the burndy md6-8

I keep the HT-6,8,3,5 on hand and it covers just about everything I run into. 

In an ideal world you would only need the HT-6 and HT-5 for your 100a and 200a services, but you will run into situations where they used whatever was on the truck i.e #1al for a 200a service drop is not uncommon around here :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

dotrat103 said:


> With all this talk of what people use for temp connections, I'm suprised nobody admitted to still using duplex connectors.


Duplex connectors?

On my very first service change (side job about 6 months in) my boss told me to use two screw romex connectors. 

30 years later I ran into some that had been in service for a decade or so.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just curious why you covered up the top bus stabs with the cables like that. I know they'll probably never get used, but still....


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> You can still use SE, it just needs to be SER instead of SEU so you have the EGC. Way less expensive than copper nm.


 

What are you talking about? You can still run SE for any 240 appliance that doesn't need a neutral:whistling2:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Just curious why you covered up the top bus stabs with the cables like that. I know they'll probably never get used, but still....


All the top spaces were easily accessible. In that pic it does appear that the top couple were buried a bit but thats not something I would do to the next guy because im usually the next guy.


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