# Old AB contactor



## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

I have run into a small problem today trying to replace a contactor that has finally given up. This is to control a motor for two speed. Original contactor is 715-DAD11. Looks to have overload number W70. Motor it controls is a 460 VAC 3 phase 60/30 HP. I am trying to spec an IEC replacement but am having difficulty finding specs to follow. Any assistance would be appreciated.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Look for a contactor that can handle an 80 amp or greater maximum inductive load. That'll get you 60HP at 480.

Match the coil voltage and any auxiliaries and you're good to go. Grainger is great for researching this sort of thing.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Tsmil said:


> I have run into a small problem today trying to replace a contactor that has finally given up. This is to control a motor for two speed. Original contactor is 715-DAD11. Looks to have overload number W70. Motor it controls is a 460 VAC 3 phase 60/30 HP. *I am trying to spec an IEC replacement* but am having difficulty finding specs to follow. Any assistance would be appreciated.


The 700 series was replaced by the 500 series in 1979. So you want to go from something that has lasted at least 35 years, to something that will likely last a little longer than it's own 1 year warranty eh?

In the second string of digits, the first letter is the NEMA size, A is Size 0, B is size 1, C is size 2, *D is Size 3*. So that starter was sized for a maximum of 50HP at 480V, 25HP at 240V etc. The second digit, the "A" means it was sold as a NEMA type 1 enclosed starter. The third digit, the "D" means it was a 120V coil. The rest of the number related to accessories. So an equivalent IEC contactor, to be safe(r), should be sized for 50HP at 460V. IEC contactors are not rated the same, but this will at leasty mean it was equivalent at a minimal level. As far as the overload relay, you are on your own. Whatever brand you select, you must read the instructions on selecting snad setting the OL relay. IEC overloads to not have replaceable heater elements.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Tsmil said:


> I have run into a small problem today trying to replace a contactor that has finally given up. This is to control a motor for two speed. Original contactor is 715-DAD11. Looks to have overload number W70. Motor it controls is a 460 VAC 3 phase 60/30 HP. I am trying to spec an IEC replacement but am having difficulty finding specs to follow. Any assistance would be appreciated.


It's a big step backwards to go from Allen Bradley to IEC. 
Why would you want to do that?


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

jrannis said:


> It's a big step backwards to go from Allen Bradley to IEC. Why would you want to do that?


 that would depend on his pocket book! 
I would check a surplus house for a re certified ab replacement, or an old ge series 800 both are bullet proof.


----------



## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

jrannis said:


> It's a big step backwards to go from Allen Bradley to IEC.
> Why would you want to do that?


It seemed the all Allen-Bradley was IEC. I was used to working on their original NEMA design. Everything after the year 2000 was the IEC design.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

retiredsparktech said:


> It seemed the all Allen-Bradley was IEC. I was used to working on their original NEMA design. Everything after the year 2000 was the IEC design.


Only if you buy them that way. They still sell the 509 series NEMA starters all day long.


----------



## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

Thank you for the info. The coils must have been changed out at some time as they are 240 volt. We are looking at going IEC because delivery times are better. From our supply house, we are told that there is no stock this side of the border, at least in their chain and they are the only AB distributed in the area. We have choices for IEC and even though i had to be creative today we rarely have to wait for more than a day or two. 

I am amazed that this has lasted so long. I don't think anything now will be so robust.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Tsmil said:


> I am amazed that this has lasted so long. I don't think anything now will be so robust.


Actually, it doesn't surprise me at all. I still see some of the 700 type; the vast majority of them work just fine. 

I'm pretty sure that a 509 type will still be in operation in 35 years. 

IEC; I seriously doubt if it'd last 10 years, even with lite usage. I've seem IEC stuff fail in less than a week.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

JRaef said:


> Only if you buy them that way. They still sell the 509 series NEMA starters all day long.


Those starters are beyond tough. 

They have went IEC sort of........the basic IEC philosophy seems to be buying separate parts and putting them together in the field. 

I don't know about anywhere else, but the local AB dealer here cannot sell a 509 AAD anymore. You now buy a size 1 contactor, an overload relay and an enclosure and put them together in the field. 

This is actually easier than you'd think; just a couple of screws and you're done. 

I actually like this way better, it cuts back on the number of parts I stock in my van.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

JRaef said:


> The 700 series was replaced by the 500 series in 1979. So you want to go from something that has lasted at least 35 years, to something that will likely last a little longer than it's own 1 year warranty eh?
> 
> In the second string of digits, the first letter is the NEMA size, A is Size 0, B is size 1, C is size 2, *D is Size 3*. So that starter was sized for a maximum of 50HP at 480V, 25HP at 240V etc. The second digit, the "A" means it was sold as a NEMA type 1 enclosed starter. The third digit, the "D" means it was a 120V coil. The rest of the number related to accessories. So an equivalent IEC contactor, to be safe(r), should be sized for 50HP at 460V. IEC contactors are not rated the same, but this will at leasty mean it was equivalent at a minimal level. As far as the overload relay, you are on your own. Whatever brand you select, you must read the instructions on selecting snad setting the OL relay. IEC overloads to not have replaceable heater elements.


I get the biggest kick out of ABs designations......I've installed over 100 509 BADs; every one of them worked perfectly!

Quite a few 509 BOBs too. A couple of 509 DOAs, but they certainly weren't dead. About a dozen 509 GODs; yep, pretty good-sized alright.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

IEC is another term for "jumk". Do yourself a favor and steer clear of anything that starts with IEC or even looks like IEC. Spec a real NEMA contactor or motor starter.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

micromind said:


> Those starters are beyond tough.
> 
> They have went IEC sort of........the basic IEC philosophy seems to be buying separate parts and putting them together in the field.
> 
> ...


If you know AB then you have all of the part numbers in your head and can put together almost anything you need. I really like when I see everything including the main switchgear AB. I know they paid dearly for it and expect that it was installed with that in mind.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

micromind said:


> Those starters are beyond tough.
> 
> They have went IEC sort of........the basic IEC philosophy seems to be buying separate parts and putting them together in the field.
> 
> ...


If you are buying from GMI in Reno, I'm actually a little surprised they do it this way, but if so, that's a local decision on their part, not Allen Bradley's. They likely do it to make their inventory more flexible.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Tsmil said:


> ... From our supply house, we are told that there is no stock this side of the border, at least in their chain and they are the only AB distributed in the area. ...


That is only true for that specific supplier then, because it is not true for AB. What usually happens is that lazy salesmen don't want to bother explaining to users why a NEMA starter is worth more than an IEC starter, so they just match pricing. The only way to compete on pricing with an IEC starter is with another IEC starter. Pretty soon that's all they are selling, so that's all they stock. It's sad though, because then people begin to believe, as you just stated, that they can't get better stuff and settle for what they can get. Everybody loses.


----------



## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

JRaef said:


> That is only true for that specific supplier then, because it is not true for AB. What usually happens is that lazy salesmen don't want to bother explaining to users why a NEMA starter is worth more than an IEC starter, so they just match pricing. The only way to compete on pricing with an IEC starter is with another IEC starter. Pretty soon that's all they are selling, so that's all they stock. It's sad though, because then people begin to believe, as you just stated, that they can't get better stuff and settle for what they can get. Everybody loses.


 AB has a facility about 45 miles from here. They did have the contractors, but not the 240 volt coils. This has become an increasing problem with dealing with AB here. To get anything rushed across the border is anything but quick.


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Calling IEC devices "JUNK" is a lot more than they deserve! What total "Crap" that stuff is!!


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

JRaef said:


> If you are buying from GMI in Reno, I'm actually a little surprised they do it this way, but if so, that's a local decision on their part, not Allen Bradley's. They likely do it to make their inventory more flexible.


Yep, Grove-Madsen. 

That's interesting, they made it sound like all AB starters are now this way. 

You're right about the inventory, especially since the electronic O/Ls have become popular. 

GMI is pretty good about stocking stuff. A month or so ago, I needed to replace a size 4 starter and they had the contactor, O/L block and even a 480 coil in stock.


----------



## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

I think it was a 700 series contactor. Does anyone remember the ones with about 20 contacts, and you could flip them to make them N.O. or N.C.?

The ones you had to worry would fit in a Hoffman?:laughing:

I have not seen one of those installed new since PLC 2 came out.:no:


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

lefleuron said:


> I think it was a 700 series contactor. Does anyone remember the ones with about 20 contacts, and you could flip them to make them N.O. or N.C.?
> 
> The ones you had to worry would fit in a Hoffman?:laughing:
> 
> I have not seen one of those installed new since PLC 2 came out.:no:


Yep type 700 type N I believe


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Tsmil said:


> AB has a facility about 45 miles from here. They did have the contractors, but not the 240 volt coils. This has become an increasing problem with dealing with AB here. To get anything rushed across the border is anything but quick.


Who are you using for a supply house? We sell tons of ALB out this way and most of it comes from Westburne... Haven't had an issue in a long time...
http://www.westburne.ca/westburne_en.html?lang=en


----------

