# Meter disco’s and surge suppressors



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Any other major changes to the 2020 code?

I’m beside myself that these 2 items concerning service upgrades slipped past me. 

Every service now needs a meter disconnect and a surge suppressor at the panel ?!


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

There was a discussion about those items being required awhile ago. It blows my mind that they want that down there.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Any other major changes to the 2020 code?
> 
> I’m beside myself that these 2 items concerning service upgrades slipped past me.
> 
> Every service now needs a meter disconnect and a surge suppressor at the panel ?!


Well it doesn't need a meter disco combo, although that is an option. 

This is a really nice disco that I have used many times and will use once the code requires them on all services. It want up from $120 to $135, but it's still a good price for Square D QO.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...with-QOM2200VH-Breaker-QOM2E2200NRB/100210055


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Well it doesn't need a meter disco combo, although that is an option.
> 
> This is a really nice disco that I have used many times and will use once the code requires them on all services. It want up from $120 to $135, but it's still a good price for Square D QO.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...with-QOM2200VH-Breaker-QOM2E2200NRB/100210055




I don’t understand what you mean by all services. 

Inspector just told me I need a disco on all services moving forward with the new code and a surge suppressor. 

I’ve used a meter socket disco combo that’s under $200 in the past. 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I don’t understand what you mean by *all services*.


 I'm not sure what you mean. 


> Inspector just told me I need a disco on *all services* moving forward with the new code


 Yes, so I am confused what you are asking me above. It seems like I said the same thing that your inspector said which is what the 2020 code requires.


> I’ve used a meter socket disco combo that’s under $200 in the past.


 If you can get them and they are approved by your PoCo, then that's not too bad. 

I don't think there are any single gang meter/main combos approved by our PoCo, and they give use the meter pan for free anyway.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Was looking into it a week ago when pricing a service upgrade. Couldn't find a definitive answer, so I carried for a Siemens surge breaker. Anybody know if the cheapo Delta can shaped surge capacitors you pop into a panel K.O. meet the requirements?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.
> Yes, so I am confused what you are asking me above. It seems like I said the same thing that your inspector said which is what the 2020 code requires.
> If you can get them and they are approved by your PoCo, then that's not too bad.
> 
> I don't think there are any single gang meter/main combos approved by our PoCo, and they give use the meter pan for free anyway.




https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...Meter-Main-Load-Center-MM0202B1200R/202276328


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...Meter-Main-Load-Center-MM0202B1200R/202276328
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We need 5th jaw and horn bypasses. And for it to be lockable.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I need to do a service over, blah

What sucks is I did it 12/23/19 but with the holidays and such the permit wasn’t processed until 1/2/20...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't even know when we will switch to the 2020 code. 



> I need to do a service over, blah


 So it's like adding an ATS like you've done before. Same thing.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don't even know when we will switch to the 2020 code.
> 
> So it's like adding an ATS like you've done before. Same thing.




I know. Just a PIA having to tell the customer we F’d up and need to schedule a visit. Lesson learned. 

Does the code book specify specs on surge suppression devices ? 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I know. Just a PIA having to tell the customer we F’d up and need to schedule a visit. Lesson learned.
> 
> Does the code book specify specs on surge suppression devices ?
> 
> ...


Look for the thread about surge suppressors being required. I asked and Dennis said what was required.

The normal Eaton Ultra will work.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I need to do a service over, blah
> 
> What sucks is I did it 12/23/19 but with the holidays and such the permit wasn’t processed until 1/2/20...





I'd be inclined to call for an inspection first.


Around here it'd be at worst a 50/50 gamble, but prolly more likely 90/10 in my favor. :biggrin:


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

CTshockhazard said:


> I'd be inclined to call for an inspection first.
> 
> 
> Around here it'd be at worst a 50/50 gamble, but prolly more likely 90/10 in my favor. :biggrin:




I did call.. and those were the first 2 questions he asked “ did you install surge suppression and a disco at the meter” I was like huh?!?! lol yep 2020 code. 

He said fix it and call me back. 


The Siemens meter breaker combos are hard to find, figured they’d be everywhere by now. I found them on amazon. An item that I stock 5 of at the cost of $250 will now be $1000. 

Im wondering why amazon is the only place that actually has this item in stock. I’m thinking about ordering a quantity of them at discount.


Another thing that sucks is a nice and easy SE load side with sill plate isn’t possible anymore. It seems I may need to use 2” pvc and an LB with SER for the load side. Looks like all services with be an additional $500 at least. 

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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

Well that sucks!


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

WronGun said:


> What sucks is I did it 12/23/19 but with the holidays and such the permit wasn’t processed until 1/2/20...



Hmmm, what do you mean by processed?


Did you apply for it before the year change? I think here it's the application date, not when they get around to approving it.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

CTshockhazard said:


> Hmmm, what do you mean by processed?
> 
> 
> Did you apply for it before the year change? I think here it's the application date, not when they get around to approving it.




It was a combination of being sent in late by me and a delayed process. Regardless, it was my oversight. 


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Well it doesn't need a meter disco combo, although that is an option.
> 
> This is a really nice disco that I have used many times and will use once the code requires them on all services. It want up from $120 to $135, but it's still a good price for Square D QO.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...with-QOM2200VH-Breaker-QOM2E2200NRB/100210055


They will be $250 when the 2020 code takes effect.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Another thing that sucks is a nice and easy SE load side with sill plate isn’t possible anymore. It seems I may need to use 2” pvc and an LB with SER for the load side. Looks like all services with be an additional $500 at least.


I put the disconnect directly under the meter. Then I come out of the back of the disconnect with SER cable, straight through the rim joist into the house. It’s very easy that way.

$500 is exactly what I have always charged extra when an outside disconnect was required. The surge suppressor is $250 on top of that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)




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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> View attachment 140080



Cool, so now we'll have 2 hub violations! :vs_laugh:


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> They will be $250 when the 2020 code takes effect.




The 2020 code isn’t in effect ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> The 2020 code isn’t in effect ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope. It will be years before many areas switch to the 2020 code. Some areas are still on the 2014.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Latest Blue Book from Con Ed











https://www.coned.com/-/media/files...-large-businesses/electricbluebook.pdf#page38


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Is the outside disconnect required to be on the dwelling? For example, on farms where the meter and disconnects are located on a pole or free standing backboard in the yard, is another disconnect now required on the dwelling or does the one at the meter suffice?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brodgers said:


> Is the outside disconnect required to be on the dwelling? For example, on farms where the meter and disconnects are located on a pole or free standing backboard in the yard, is another disconnect now required on the dwelling or does the one at the meter suffice?


_"a readily accessible outdoor location"_


> 230.85 Emergency Disconnects(s)
> For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:
> 
> (1) Service disconnect(s) marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT
> ...


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Thank you Hack! i appreciate your response.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

WronGun said:


> The 2020 code isn’t in effect ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For you in Ma it should be. For us in NH it won't be for awhile. I just used one of those siemens meter mains for a temp service. They work well enough. I also use the Square D disco that Hack mentioned. I am taking the code update next month. I knew this was coming. Had a fairly good explanation of the two ways of doing it at a seminar. I haven't wrapped my head around the surge suppression thing yet, but not too worried about it.


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> I haven't wrapped my head around the surge suppression thing yet, but not too worried about it.



Eaton, Schneider, Siemens, and others have not been selling enough panel surge suppressors. :biggrin:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

brodgers said:


> Eaton, Schneider, Siemens, and others have not been selling enough panel surge suppressors. :biggrin:


Of course, that goes without saying.:smile:


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Another thing that sucks is a nice and easy SE load side with sill plate isn’t possible anymore. It seems I may need to use 2” pvc and an LB with SER for the load side. Looks like all services with be an additional $500 at least.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the new code just requires a disconnect but it does not need to be fused. So, with no breaker you still can run a three wire to a main panel.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> I think the new code just requires a disconnect but it does not need to be fused. So, with no breaker you still can run a three wire to a main panel.


This

(2) Meter disconnect(s) installed per 230.83(#) and marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

nrp3 said:


> For you in Ma it should be. For us in NH it won't be for awhile. I just used one of those siemens meter mains for a temp service. They work well enough. I also use the Square D disco that Hack mentioned. I am taking the code update next month. I knew this was coming. Had a fairly good explanation of the two ways of doing it at a seminar. I haven't wrapped my head around the surge suppression thing yet, but not too worried about it.




I’ve used the Siemens one before. I just ordered 3 more this weekend, very hard to get it seems. It beats the price of the $450 Millbank combo Home Depot carries. 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

After all said and done. The second time calling for inspection on this job the inspector asked if my “EMERGENCY DISCONNECT” label was weather/sun rated. 

Just kill me now.... what are you guys using for labels ? I’m about to call my jeweler and have it engraved into the damn disco. 


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Trophy shops


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Check out the online places that sell the solar placards.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Apparently no one has the ones that specifically say 

“Emergency Disconnect”


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I would use a lamacoid label for it. Metal ones would be weatherproof. Might be able to get UV rated plastic ones.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

WronGun said:


> Apparently no one has the ones that specifically say
> 
> “Emergency Disconnect”
> 
> ...


Does one of your supply houses make custom engraved legends? We can get whatever we want.

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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

WronGun said:


> After all said and done. The second time calling for inspection on this job the inspector asked if my “EMERGENCY DISCONNECT” label was weather/sun rated.
> 
> Just kill me now.... what are you guys using for labels ? I’m about to call my jeweler and have it engraved into the damn disco.
> 
> ...



Local trophy shop as mentioned or

https://www.myengravedsign.com/


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

When we need any type of signs or placards for our installations we call a trophy shop. Typically that day they will have ready what we need at a reasonable rate.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

HackWork said:


> View attachment 140080


Nice work Hack.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

WronGun said:


> I need to do a service over, blah
> 
> What sucks is I did it 12/23/19 but with the holidays and such the permit wasn’t processed until 1/2/20...
> 
> ...


They should have given you a pass on this but I guess the city is trying to make money by charging you extra for the 2nd inspection. The planning department takes so long for approval and then they stick you with compliance to 2020 code. :vs_mad:


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Easy said:


> They should have given you a pass on this but I guess the city is trying to make money by charging you extra for the 2nd inspection. The planning department takes so long for approval and then they stick you with compliance to 2020 code. :vs_mad:




The inspector hasn’t come out yet. This was all over the phone. He knows me and usually does a phone pre-inspection prior to coming out to make sure I covered items that are probably getting missed. 

I ordered 20 lamacoid labels online. 


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## Kelley F (May 17, 2016)

The Milbank meter main comes with the labels


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

WronGun said:


> The inspector hasn’t come out yet. This was all over the phone. He knows me and usually does a phone pre-inspection prior to coming out to make sure I covered items that are probably getting missed.
> 
> I ordered 20 lamacoid labels online.
> 
> ...



Have a link to where you ordered them from?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

nrp3 said:


> Have a link to where you ordered them from?



www.Lamacoid-labels.com











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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

So today an inspector told me I can still use SE for a service I just need to label the disconnect correctly. 

I’ve been using SER for all my load sides going into the panel making the main a sub panel and separating grounds. 

I was looking for some clarification on this. I can still use SE for service and combine all N and G’s and label the disconnect “emergency disconnect” 

Or I can use SER and separate N and G and label “emergency disconnect/service disconnect” 

Is this correct? This would save a great deal amount of time when replacing only the exterior part of the service, doing a 3-family tomorrow, keeping panels, not having to change SE would be great.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

Pretty amazing how a sharpie or sticker can make what used to be a 'dangerous installation' safe.


:vs_laugh:


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