# Anyone used these yet?



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Ok guys, new to the forum, manufacturing plant elect. with 6plus in industrial, 20plus of Military elect prior. New guy to the plant got the mgment in a buzz about energy savings. His ideas are not bad but think need some tweeking. First off, he is really in to PF correction. Mind you 90% or better of motors are already on VFd so any correction would have to come from other means. Which leads me to HID lighting. We currently use a mix of 400w MH and 6tube t8 in manufacturing and warehousing.
warehousing has been on phased replacement of MH to T8 for a while now and is more than 60% complete. Spot replacement of MH in manufacturing has been going on for a little while. So new guy HATES T8s and wants to use CFL direct retro. Me, I LOATHE CFL. So in my research, I find these: http://www.zamtasledlights.com.au/product.php?id_product=44. Look pretty nifty and all, but find no US source for them or even what they cost in Ozzie$. So question is, How much? Where can I get em? Do they work as advertised? :001_huh:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Jmohl said:


> Ok guys, new to the forum, manufacturing plant elect. with 6plus in industrial, 20plus of Military elect prior. New guy to the plant got the mgment in a buzz about energy savings. His ideas are not bad but think need some tweeking. First off, he is really in to PF correction. Mind you 90% or better of motors are already on VFd so any correction would have to come from other means. Which leads me to HID lighting. We currently use a mix of 400w MH and 6tube t8 in manufacturing and warehousing.
> warehousing has been on phased replacement of MH to T8 for a while now and is more than 60% complete. Spot replacement of MH in manufacturing has been going on for a little while. So new guy HATES T8s and wants to use CFL direct retro. Me, I LOATHE CFL. So in my research, I find these: http://www.zamtasledlights.com.au/product.php?id_product=44. Look pretty nifty and all, but find no US source for them or even what they cost in Ozzie$. So question is, How much? Where can I get em? Do they work as advertised? :001_huh:


Look at these. You need to educate yourself with facts, so your advice on this subject is grounded in something other than(I like this).
http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...re_library/ballast/downloads/ultramax_hid.pdf


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

*re: Backstay*

Backstay, 
Thanks for the input. Actually, to clarify things a little, I have done a good bit of research on the subject so far and for our application, CFL is not a good option. First off, I do know that there is CFL avail in high output, Cool white or Daylight that Approximates the luminosity and CT of a 400w MH. That said, the cost per lamp, the fact that life span of half of Mh, combined with the increased cost for disposal, maintenance, and the mercury content, I do not feel that the energy savings outweighs the negatives.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

I would lean towards a better know lighting manufacturer myself. If you're having a hard time finding a supplier what happens when these things start crapping out? Where will this company be in five years to back up a warranty?

I think Hubbell makes an LED highbay retrofit that might be worth looking at.

The thing that would concern me with an LED retrofit is thermal management, you can't just stuff an LED system in any old highbay kettle without cooking the thing and shortening it's life dramatically.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

*Follow up*

The supplier/mfg in Ozz got me a quote. $550 a unit up to 100, qt of more would bring it down. Don't thing the Corp is gonna shell out that kind of dough. More's the pity....


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

You need to have an accountant sit down along with the salesman and do a cost-benefit analysis. Basically the accountant is there to do realistic cost analysis while the sales person can fill you guys in on government and utility subsidies available.

Have your last few utility bills ready too. 

Sales people typically only carry out simple ROI calculation that's pretty much useless other than something really short term or homework questions in finance 101 class. 

Unless the project have some value beyond economic return, such as achieving corporate mission and vision, the project needs to meet your organization's required rate of return. 

Getting rid of all the fixtures and replacing with linear fluorescent provides the best overall lumen per watt and life, but it might not make sense depending on variables, like your local energy rate, required payback period for energy upgrades in your company etc. 

What makes sense for PG&E user in Cullyfornia/North Mexico doesn't always make sense for BC Hydro user in Canadia. 

There are drop ins like this:
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/tools_literature/downloads/p-6000.pdf

If you have a probe start system, these lamps are supposed to give you almost the same mean lumen using less energy. I just checked my Philips catalog and if you are already using pulse start, the wattage reduction comes with almost corresponding light reduction and minimal change in lumens-per-watt.


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