# Fancy nm splice kits. How about an afci?



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Fellas, thinking about using a few of those tyco nm splice kits to avoid jboxes in a remodel. How does the class feel about these guys and how about an AFCI breaker in front of all splices for good measure and/or peace of mind?


----------



## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

It seems the general consensus is that they are not legal to be buried in the wall. I personally would have no problem using them, even without an afci.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

AFAIC, they're only good in mobile/modular homes..


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

*334.40(B) Devices of Insulating Material.*
Switch, outlet, and *tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. *Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available as many terminals as conductors.


I would not use them my self


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> AFAIC, they're only good in mobile/modular homes..


The breakers or the splices? Little confused. These splices definitely don't say they are limited to modular and/or mobile homes. I just know that while these bad boys are UL listed, I also know that their against old school and conservative methods, so I was just thinking maybe an AFCI would help in case on of them failed. Thanks for the help fellas as always


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Power21 said:


> The breakers or the splices? Little confused. These splices definitely don't say they are limited to modular and/or mobile homes. I just know that while these bad boys are UL listed, I also know that their against old school and conservative methods, so I was just thinking maybe an AFCI would help in case on of them failed. Thanks for the help fellas as always


The splice kits. Right in the instructions it refers only to Art. 545 and lists mobile homes, manufactured homes and mobile home parks.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

You would have to be a hack to use them splices.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i dont know how those are legal. its still a connection and they bury it in the wall. i replaced a couple of those in a modular house when we were hooking it up. they were not installed right. i really dont feel comfortable burying those things since they also pierce the insulation


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

william1978 said:


> You would have to be a hack to use them splices.


Yeah, your right I should run it in pipe. Thanks for the informative response:thumbup:


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

Power21 said:


> Yeah, your right I should run it in pipe. Thanks for the informative response:thumbup:


:laughing::laughing:

Anything less than RMC is hack. :laughing:


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Safety 1st said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Anything less than RMC is hack. :laughing:


PVC coated RMC. you need that extra protection. anybody that doesnt use that to wire a house with is a hack. :thumbup:


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Whats the diif than an underground splice kit, I use them when their is no other option, never ever had a call back. I get more jobs because I bid a splice kit at $15, than the guy who tells the HO "we need to open up that wall" or "it will be an extra 3 hrs @ $80/hr to fish it in." Its competitive, find your angle!! Its not hack, its the same as a splice in a box. Make a good connection and nothing will ever go wrong. love um!!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> Whats the diif than an underground splice kit, I use them when their is no other option, never ever had a call back. I get more jobs because I bid a splice kit at $15, than the guy who tells the HO "we need to open up that wall" or "it will be an extra 3 hrs @ $80/hr to fish it in." Its competitive, find your angle!! Its not hack, its the same as a splice in a box. Make a good connection and nothing will ever go wrong. love um!!!! :thumbsup:


That is code violating hack work.

Though I do admit that a UF splice kit is way more reliable than one of those mobile home connectors.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

redseal said:


> Whats the diif than an underground splice kit, I use them when their is no other option, never ever had a call back. I get more jobs because I bid a splice kit at $15, than the guy who tells the HO "we need to open up that wall" or "it will be an extra 3 hrs @ $80/hr to fish it in." Its competitive, find your angle!! Its not hack, its the same as a splice in a box. Make a good connection and nothing will ever go wrong. love um!!!! :thumbsup:


Except, you don't have access to the splice if something does go wrong. We know from Frasbee's experience that apprentices (and everyone on the planet) don't make perfect 100% bullet-proof splices everytime.

I'd be pressed to say that soldered k&t splice is better than that.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

If your going to use one of those splice kits, I'd put in an access panel for good measure.


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Safety 1st said:


> That is code violating hack work.
> 
> Though I do admit that a UF splice kit is way more reliable than one of those mobile home connectors.


Really???? I would look up 334.40b before I called a guy a code violating hack...

Its right in the romex section guys... Where the hell does it say mobile homes?????

Might want to fresh up on your code their guys....LMFAO!

:whistling2::whistling2::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> Really???? I would look up 334.40b before I called a guy a code violating hack...
> 
> Its right in the romex section guys... Where the hell does it say mobile homes?????
> 
> ...


You're talking about under cutting guys by using a UF splice kit to bury in a wall instead of doing it right. That's hack work, plain and simple.


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Safety 1st said:


> You're talking about under cutting guys by using a UF splice kit to bury in a wall instead of doing it right. That's hack work, plain and simple.


 
My god, its not a UF splice kit, its made by "tyco electronics" Its a UL listed "romex" splice kit, you can get it at Home Depot. They come in 2 or 3 wire applications. 

Are you more pissy that I burned you on the code reference, or the number of jobs you lost because you are the guy who says "We need to open this wall" or "3-4 hrs to fish it in"

You lost jobs plain and simple because you cant read code!!!


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> .......... Where the hell does it say mobile homes?????


They're called instructions. Now read 110.3(B).


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> My god, its not a UF splice kit, its made by "tyco electronics" Its a UL listed "romex" splice kit, you can get it at Home Depot. They come in 2 or 3 wire applications.
> 
> Are you more pissy that I burned you on the code reference, or the number of jobs you lost because you are the guy who says "We need to open this wall" or "3-4 hrs to fish it in"
> 
> You lost jobs plain and simple because you cant read code!!!


My apologies. I completely misunderstood. I thought you were talking about using a UF splice kit instead of the Tyco kit based on the way you wrote your sentence. 

Those connectors are great! Carry on! :thumbsup:


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> They're called instructions. Now read 110.3(B).


Ok listed and labeled, gonna have to do better than that my friend, as the product Im using has the big ol "UL Listed" mark right on it!! 

Nice try, but you and your buddy are 0-2...NEXT!!!!!!! 

I feel like Cliff Lee here guys, who will be the next strike out????


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

redseal said:


> Ok listed and labeled, gonna have to do better than that my friend, as the product Im using has the big ol "UL Listed" mark right on it!!
> 
> Nice try, but you and your buddy are 0-2...NEXT!!!!!!!
> 
> I feel like Cliff Lee here guys, who will be the next strike out????


We are sorry you are so attached to those pieces of sh1t.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> Ok listed and labeled, gonna have to do better than that my friend, as the product Im using has the big ol "UL Listed" mark right on it!!
> 
> Nice try, but you and your buddy are 0-2...NEXT!!!!!!!
> 
> I feel like Cliff Lee here guys, who will be the next strike out????


So a 4-sq box is UL listed. Listed *FOR WHAT*? Is it listed to use any way you want? Can you bury it? Can you use it in a classified location?


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Can you bury it?


We should all know the proper box to use for that application...


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So a 4-sq box is UL listed. Listed *FOR WHAT*? Is it listed to use any way you want? Can you bury it? Can you use it in a classified location?


You challenged me, back up your claim...


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> We should all know the proper box to use for that application...



Apparently you can bury whatever you want as long as it's UL listed.

I think I'm gonna start using Zip Cord for 400a resi services. After all, it's *UL listed*!

I don't need bell boxes in exterior locations... I can use stamped handi-boxes. After all, they're *UL listed*!

I don't need TR receps and AFCI breakers in new dwellings. I can use regular receps & breakers. After all, they're *UL listed*!


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> You challenged me, back up your claim...



Try LOOKING UP THE INSTRUCTIONS.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Apparently you can bury whatever you want as long as it's UL listed.
> 
> I think I'm gonna start using Zip Cord for 400a resi services. After all, it's *UL listed*!
> 
> ...


:clap::clap: Cool I like it. 


The correct answer to the ... was PVC box. :laughing:


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> We are sorry you are so attached to those pieces of sh1t.


 
Funny when you prove people wrong, They just start calling names.... I busted 99% of you "smart guys" on here and now I'm a hack....lol

Thats OK, I'm right and you are wrong. Sorry "good ole boys club" Hope you learned something today.. :whistling2: lmfao!!!!


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> Funny when you prove people wrong, They just start calling names.... I busted 99% of you "smart guys" on here and now I'm a hack....lol
> 
> Thats OK, I'm right and you are wrong. Sorry "good ole boys club" Hope you learned something today.. :whistling2: lmfao!!!!


That's right. You just got PWNED as the kids say these days. :thumbsup:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

redseal said:


> Funny when you prove people wrong, They just start calling names.... I busted 99% of you "smart guys" on here and now I'm a hack....lol
> 
> Thats OK, I'm right and you are wrong. Sorry "good ole boys club" Hope you learned something today.. :whistling2: lmfao!!!!


Oh how will I go on.  Sorry I don't care if they are legal I don't bury splices in walls. And BTW just cause you can buy it at a Home Depot that doesn't mean you should use it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> .............Thats OK, I'm right and you are wrong........





redseal said:


> ....... back up your claim...


Let's see if you can.


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Apparently you can bury whatever you want as long as it's UL listed.
> 
> I think I'm gonna start using Zip Cord for 400a resi services. After all, it's *UL listed*!
> 
> ...


 
When did this go underground???? Derailing the conversation to suit you argument??? UL LISTED FOR THE APPLICATION, Well hell ya their are still outlets UL listed that are not tamper res...Its called commercial.. Are you serious???? lol

A handy box in an exterior location??? Now you just sound stupid...

UL listing is for the application, a nail on 2 gang box is UL listed but you cant put it outdoors... You really didnt know this???

Holy hell, Good luck with that!!! 

1900's are ul listed too, how many of them have you put on for outside outlets their hack!!!!!


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Safety 1st said:


> That's right. You just got PWNED as the kids say these days. :thumbsup:


How? I think you did, not knowing your codes and sheet...


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> How? I think you did, not knowing your codes and sheet...



Seriously, don't listen to these guys. Use your splice kits all day long. I know I would in a pinch. :thumbsup:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

No one noticed my post but hey, you own a torch?


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> No one noticed my post but hey, you own a torch?



Good point. Soldered K&T splices have a proven track record of lasting many decades trouble free. :thumbsup:


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Oh how will I go on.  Sorry I don't care if they are legal I don't bury splices in walls. And BTW just cause you can buy it at a Home Depot that doesn't mean you should use it.


And thats why I got the job and you didnt... Tell me on "your high horse" if its listed as an ireversable splice, what is the difference??? ever used a crimp kit????


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

redseal said:


> And thats why I got the job and you didnt... Tell me on "your high horse" if its listed as an ireversable splice, what is the difference??? ever used a crimp kit????


I have soldered, crimped and twisted more splices than you ever will. And you can keep the buried in wall resi. splice work.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Safety 1st said:


> Good point. Soldered K&T splices have a proven track record of lasting many decades trouble free. :thumbsup:


I hate soldering but I do it more than I care to. With so many half ass remodel jobs done there's a lot of sh!tty cutting going on when moving walls.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> When did this go underground???? Derailing the conversation to suit you argument??? UL LISTED FOR THE APPLICATION, Well hell ya their are still outlets UL listed that are not tamper res...Its called commercial.. Are you serious???? lol
> 
> A handy box in an exterior location??? Now you just sound stupid...
> 
> ...


Thank you for totally agreeing with me. :thumbsup:


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Thank you for totally agreeing with me. :thumbsup:


I agree with him agreeing with you.

~Matt


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I agree with him agreeing with you.
> 
> ~Matt



Sometimes it's just to easy. :laughing:


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I agree with him agreeing with you.
> 
> ~Matt


I don't agree.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Safety 1st said:


> I don't agree.


does not matter.


~Matt


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> does not matter.
> 
> 
> ~Matt


Thank you and I accept your apology.
:thumbsup:


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Sometimes it's just to easy. :laughing:


Or sometimes when we cant back up our sheet, and have been the "popular" guy on a web site, we just call on another "popular" guy and say... "fck aint we great, wore a tool belt in the last 10 yrs?, ya me either" Cmon 480, 110.3b.... lol good try!! 110 is good for stuff like "neat and workmanship" But really???


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

Don't mind 480sparky. He is just posting to increase his post count.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Thank you and I accept your apology.
> :thumbsup:


I am sorry for nothing.

~Matt


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I am sorry for nothing.
> 
> ~Matt


I am sorry for you (and your parents, and anyone who ever has to come near you).


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Safety 1st said:


> Don't mind 480sparky. He is just posting to increase his post count.


 
lol, I would friend ya but your the one who set me off!!! :001_huh:


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I am sorry for you (and your parents, and anyone who ever has to come near you).


lol

(and hahaha)

~Matt


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Thank you for totally agreeing with me. :thumbsup:


 
OMG 15,000+ posts????? Have you even been out in the field since 1983?? Holy Sheet!!!!!!!!!! Seriosly how the Fck can you spend that much time in front of a computer...???? You must have a ****ie-do... Ya know your belly sticks out farther than your ****ie-do....lol


----------



## Safety 1st (Oct 20, 2010)

redseal said:


> lol, I would friend ya but your the one who set me off!!! :001_huh:


Nah, you don't want to friend me. I'm just a troll. :yes: 

But if it makes you feel any better, I did apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I am sorry for nothing.
> 
> ~Matt


Your apology is accepted.

haha, don't know what for though.
:thumbup:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

redseal said:


> OMG 15,000+ posts????? Have you even been out in the field since 1983?? Holy Sheet!!!!!!!!!! Seriosly how the Fck can you spend that much time in front of a computer...???? You must have a ****ie-do... Ya know your belly sticks out farther than your ****ie-do....lol


Oh yeah it's me and the rest of the good ol' boys club that is resorting to insults.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

~Matt


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> ~Matt


There we go I was waiting for that. :thumbup::laughing:


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> PVC coated RMC. you need that extra protection. anybody that doesnt use that to wire a house with is a hack. :thumbup:


PVC coated Aluminum RMC. Very high strength-to-weight ratio. Like the Festivus pole I made last year.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Power21 said:


> Yeah, your right I should run it in pipe. Thanks for the informative response:thumbup:


Yes rigid metal conduit:thumbup::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> They're called instructions. Now read 110.3(B).


480 here is a picture of the front cover of the splice kit im talking about. in the directions it clearly states NEC compliant with article 330-40b


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Power21 said:


> 480 here is a picture of the front cover of the splice kit im talking about. in the directions it clearly states NEC compliant with article 330-40b



The cover is now called the instructions? Now read the code section.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I know there are some out there that are listed, but is that one that you have listed?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I know there are some out there that are listed, but is that one that you have listed?



Who, and what, are you referring to?


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The cover is now called the instructions? Now read the code section.


ughh........ the DIRECTIONS say nothing to the contrary. I never started this thread to say these things were awesome, i just was asking about using them and protecting them with AFCI's for good measure."because the homeowner was strongly against using another method like jboxes or ripping drywall". For the record.... The AHJ def said that these are listed for use in remodel use.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Power21, can you show me where it specifically says that you can bury these in a wall of a house?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Power21 said:


> ughh........ the DIRECTIONS say nothing to the contrary. I never started this thread to say these things were awesome, i just was asking about using them and protecting them with AFCI's for good measure."because the homeowner was strongly against using another method like jboxes or ripping drywall". For the record.... The AHJ def said that these are listed for use in remodel use.



OK, so far they're UL listed. And you've shown where they accept certain wire sizes. Do they say anything about requiring AFCI protection, or are you so afraid of them you think adding it would be a good idea?

Yes, you can use them for a remodel, but you can also use j-boxes as well.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Who, and what, are you referring to?


 I was asking about the one in the picture.


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> OK, so far they're UL listed. And you've shown where they accept certain wire sizes. Do they say anything about requiring AFCI protection, or are you so afraid of them you think adding it would be a good idea?
> 
> Yes, you can use them for a remodel, but you can also use j-boxes as well.


BOOOO!!...Am i a'scared of them"???.....well im not a UL lister......however im old school, A PRO, follow directions set forth by local AHJ, and maintain a superior level of A work while following guidelines set forth by people above my pay grade,.. and these "splice" things make me feel a tad uncomfortable soooooooo i was thinking i could propose this idea of ARC faults to the homeowner who does not want another more customary method to reattach severed circuits in an exitsting home. (carpentry company basically took saw through center of existing structure). Thats all. 480 your the man, ive always appreciated your help, youve helped me alot, i was just showing you this stupid 7 $ splice from home depot that is available..(and currently acceptable).


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Power21 said:


> BOOOO!!...Am i a'scared of them"???.....well im not a UL lister......however im old school, A PRO, follow directions set forth by local AHJ, and maintain a superior level of A work while following guidelines set forth by people above my pay grade,.. and these "splice" things make me feel a tad uncomfortable soooooooo i was thinking i could propose this idea of ARC faults to the homeowner who does not want another more customary method to reattach severed circuits in an exitsting home. (carpentry company basically took saw through center of existing structure). Thats all. 480 your the man, ive always appreciated your help, youve helped me alot, i was just showing you this stupid 7 $ splice from home depot that is available..(and currently acceptable).



I've known about them for years. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot stick of ½" PVC, though.

The problem is, if you bury one in a wall, and it causes an AFCI to trip, well, guess what.


----------



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I've known about them for years. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot stick of ½" PVC, though.
> 
> The problem is, if you bury one in a wall, and it causes an AFCI to trip, well, guess what.


I here you my man, at least it's just a tripped breaker, and not a second floor fully involved with heavy fire showing. Homeowner is very aware I don't exactly love these things but I installed them perfectly, took pictures and documented where they are in relation to the home and installed afci breakers. I was just looking to see if anyone else has used them. Thanks again


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Power21, can you show me where it specifically says that you can bury these in a wall of a house?


...........


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, I did some digging tonight, and I found this. (on page 16).



> Can the NM Connector be concealed?
> YES, although it can only be concealed in re-work applications per NEC Article 334-40(B). It can not be concealed in new work.


This is not part of the listing nor instructions. It's just a .pdf put out by Tyco.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HackWork said:


> ...........


 :blink::blink:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> :blink::blink:



:sleep1::sleep1:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:


 :sleep1::sleep1:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:


I always knew you were Peter D.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HackWork said:


> I always knew you were Peter D.


 :sleep1::sleep1:


----------



## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Well, I did some digging tonight, and I found this. (on page 16).
> 
> 
> 
> This is not part of the listing nor instructions. It's just a .pdf put out by Tyco.


I know we need to follow the instructions, but I would ask why if this is ok to use for old work, why would its use in new work be any less safe?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jim Port said:


> I know we need to follow the instructions, but I would ask why if this is ok to use for old work, why would its use in new work be any less safe?



They're probably just as safe, but new construction should not need them. Either way, I'm avoiding them like the plague.


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> They're probably just as safe, but new construction should not need them. Either way, I'm avoiding them like the plague.


 
They work great!!!!! use them and make sure your connections are seated!!! oh no its in a wall!!! One Ec calling you a hack over the other... Ever done an old remodel where you found a 30yr old splice on knob and tube...Wow it has worked for 30+ yrs.. Tell me what the "box" would do for you? Are you a sloppy splicer? Its ok just keep calling hack, I love the Egos on here!!!! You all must have Sh*t insurance... Im sure 480 and the others wifes have never ever cleaned drawers either!! Kinda wierd....


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> They work great!!!!! use them and make sure your connections are seated!!! oh no its in a wall!!! One Ec calling you a hack over the other... Ever done an old remodel where you found a 30yr old splice on knob and tube...Wow it has worked for 30+ yrs.. Tell me what the "box" would do for you? Are you a sloppy splicer? Its ok just keep calling hack, I love the Egos on here!!!! You all must have Sh*t insurance... Im sure 480 and the others wifes have never ever cleaned drawers either!! Kinda wierd....


My ego has nothing to do with it. It's a business decision.

The reason I avoid them is because they're relatively new. "New and improved" sometimes doesn't mean just that.... it can just as easily mean "We're gonna gaslight you into thinking these are the greatest thing since sliced bread and make a fortune doing it."

Anyone remember Zurn pex plumbing fittings? 

If they're truly great, then they'll stand the test of time. But I'll merrily do things the old-fashioned way, which I know works, and let someone else be the manufacturers' guinea pig. Once they prove themselves trustworthy, then I'll be more than happy to use them.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Jim Port said:


> I know we need to follow the instructions, but I would ask why if this is ok to use for old work, why would its use in new work be any less safe?


Maybe for the same reason you can fish cable in a wall and leave it unsupported.

I have used one of those splice kits before. I thought it was cumbersome to use.


----------



## elecpatsfan (Oct 1, 2010)

I can see why wire nut splices are illegal to bury, but I don't understand why a regular UF splice kit is. I suppose you could make a nick in the copper while stripping the insulated conductors, twisting them together could cause a break. With a UF splice you have set screws clamping down onto the wires with a protective heat shrink around the outside of it. Is it possible that there could be a problem? Yes, but highly unlikely. I can also get hit by lightning walking out of my house. Down here on cape cod junction boxes with blank plates don't fly on 2 million dollar house renovations. I haven't had the balls to bury a UF splice kit simply because the book doesn't allow it, but next time the carpenter and his sawzall screw me I'm thinking about it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

elecpatsfan said:


> I can see why wire nut splices are illegal to bury, but I don't understand why a regular UF splice kit is. I suppose you could make a nick in the copper while stripping the insulated conductors, twisting them together could cause a break. With a UF splice you have set screws clamping down onto the wires with a protective heat shrink around the outside of it. Is it possible that there could be a problem? Yes, but highly unlikely. I can also get hit by lightning walking out of my house. Down here on cape cod junction boxes with blank plates don't fly on 2 million dollar house renovations. I haven't had the balls to bury a UF splice kit simply because the book doesn't allow it, but next time the carpenter and his sawzall screw me I'm thinking about it.



The difference is: With a splice buried in a wall, you have the potential to burn the house down. With a splice buried in the ground, what is going to catch fire?


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> The difference is: With a splice buried in a wall, you have the potential to burn the house down. With a splice buried in the ground, what is going to catch fire?


The Scotchcoat???


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> The Scotchcoat???



And how will it burn without oxygen?


----------



## elecpatsfan (Oct 1, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The difference is: With a splice buried in a wall, you have the potential to burn the house down. With a splice buried in the ground, what is going to catch fire?


If it's fire that is the concern, have the uf splice kit contained within a 4" sq. box with a blank plate. As for the not having access to the splice if it were loose: with those set screws and maybe even a dab of lock-tight on the threads for good measure, I like the odds.


----------

