# Communications question



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jim Port said:


> Could somebody please tell me where the requirement is to install a phone jack for a house? I remember the change but cannot find the Article requiring such.
> 
> Thanks,


800.156 Dwelling Unit Communications Outlet. For new construction, a minimum of one communications outlet shall be installed within the dwelling in a readily accessible area and cabled to the service provider demarcation point.


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## Hackster (Jun 15, 2013)

*800.156 Dwelling Unit Communications Outlet.* _For new construction, a minimum of one communications outlet shall be installed within the dwelling in a readily accessible area and cabled to the service provider demarcation point._


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## Hackster (Jun 15, 2013)

Damn you Harry


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Hackster said:


> Damn you Harry


I thought alligators were as fast as dogs:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Hackster said:


> Damn you Harry


Gotcha by a second...:laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

I really don't understand this rule...how do you run a cable to a demarcation pointthat may not exist? The only way you have demarcation point is if the home owner asks a communications utility to provide one. There is no requirement that there be a demarcation point.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I really don't understand this rule...how do you run a cable to a demarcation pointthat may not exist? The only way you have demarcation point is if the home owner asks a communications utility to provide one. There is no requirement that there be a demarcation point.


Just throw a 100' of cat5 in the attic wired to a jack in the kitchen and call it good.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

btharmy said:


> Just throw a 100' of cat5 in the attic wired to a jack in the kitchen and call it good.


That would not comply with the code rule. 

If the owner does not want a wired communications service, there is no way that the installer can comply with the rule as the rule requires the communication outlet be cabled to the demarcation point. If there is no wired communication service, there is no demarcation point.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> That would not comply with the code rule.
> 
> If the owner does not want a wired communications service, there is no way that the installer can comply with the rule as the rule requires the communication outlet be cabled to the demarcation point. If there is no wired communication service, there is no demarcation point.


Good point Don. I would just run a Cat 5e from a probable computer location to the meter location where I had to put the intersystem ground, that might never get used.:laughing:


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I really don't understand this rule...how do you run a cable to a demarcation pointthat may not exist? The only way you have demarcation point is if the home owner asks a communications utility to provide one. There is no requirement that there be a demarcation point.


It is required to provide a demarc when service is established.



Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Good point Don. I would just run a Cat 5e from a probable computer location to the meter location where I had to put the intersystem ground, that might never get used.:laughing:


Works for me


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Good point Don. I would just run a Cat 5e from a probable computer location to the meter location where I had to put the intersystem ground, that might never get used.:laughing:


Still does not meet the wording of the code rule. The cable must be run to the communications provider demarcation point. If there is no such point, you cannot comply with this rule.


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## Hackster (Jun 15, 2013)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Still does not meet the wording of the code rule. The cable must be run to the communications provider demarcation point. If there is no such point, you cannot comply with this rule.


Oh blah blah blah. Keep that "I'm more technical than you" crap at MH's.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Still does not meet the wording of the code rule. The cable must be run to the communications provider demarcation point. If there is no such point, you cannot comply with this rule.


Well if there was a demarcation point it would probably be at the meter location, right where I put the intersystem ground.

And, crazy me, I'm going to put the washer and dryer outlets in that little room with the funny faucets and drain.:laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

The sky is blue. Well no it's not really.  :laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Well if there was a demarcation point it would probably be at the meter location, right where I put the intersystem ground. ...


In my area the location of the electric meter is often not on the same side of the house as the communications demarcation point.

However it doesn't matter where the demarcation point may be located at. The code clearly requires a cable to the demarcation point, not a likely point where demarcation equipment may be installed in the future. As the code is currently written, the rule cannot be complied with unless the dwelling unit has a communications demarcation point. If the intent is for a future connection, then the code wording needs to be changed to require the cable to be run the "likely location of a future demarcation point".


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> In my area the location of the electric meter is often not on the same side of the house as the communications demarcation point.
> 
> However it doesn't matter where the demarcation point may be located at. The code clearly requires a cable to the demarcation point, not a likely point where demarcation equipment may be installed in the future. As the code is currently written, the rule cannot be complied with unless the dwelling unit has a communications demarcation point. If the intent is for a future connection, then the code wording needs to be changed to require the cable to be run the "likely location of a future demarcation point".


Or just use common sense and run it to a reasonable location. Any of us should be able to figure where that location would be.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Communication demarcation point will soon be a thing of the past for new construction. Will be wireless; cell, satellite. Already available!


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## Hackster (Jun 15, 2013)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> In my area the location of the electric meter is often not on the same side of the house as the communications demarcation point.
> 
> However it doesn't matter where the demarcation point may be located at. The code clearly requires a cable to the demarcation point, not a likely point where demarcation equipment may be installed in the future. As the code is currently written, the rule cannot be complied with unless the dwelling unit has a communications demarcation point. If the intent is for a future connection, then the code wording needs to be changed to require the cable to be run the "likely location of a future demarcation point".


You're right.

Tell you what, you call the CMP on the batphone, Harry could call Underwriter's Laboratories, and I'll call Obama and have him shut down all new house construction until we get this worked out.

Ready... GO


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Mr. Douglas knew where his demarc was.


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## markstg (Jun 13, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> That would not comply with the code rule.
> 
> If the owner does not want a wired communications service, there is no way that the installer can comply with the rule as the rule requires the communication outlet be cabled to the demarcation point. If there is no wired communication service, there is no demarcation point.


 
For those of us that do not have a telephone land line therefore no telephone demarc box, but have cable outlets in the house and have the those cabled to the cable co. demarc box, would that comply with NEC?


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

markstg said:


> For those of us that do not have a telephone land line therefore no telephone demarc box, but have cable outlets in the house and have the those cabled to the cable co. demarc box, would that comply with NEC?


*800.156 Dwelling Unit Communications Outlet.* _For new construction, a minimum of one communications outlet shall be installed within the dwelling in a readily accessible area and cabled to the service provider demarcation point._

Yes, communications....not talking about telephone only.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> In my area the location of the electric meter is often not on the same side of the house as the communications demarcation point.
> 
> However it doesn't matter where the demarcation point may be located at. The code clearly requires a cable to the demarcation point, not a likely point where demarcation equipment may be installed in the future. As the code is currently written, the rule cannot be complied with unless the dwelling unit has a communications demarcation point. If the intent is for a future connection, then the code wording needs to be changed to require the cable to be run the "likely location of a future demarcation point".


Sounds like the electrician sets the demarcation point by installing the phone and intersystem ground point near the meter then.

Doesn't the Phone Co. have to ground their demarcation point, same as Cable or Sat?

Have any phone types been prosecuted yet?:laughing:


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## markstg (Jun 13, 2009)

8V71 said:


> *800.156 Dwelling Unit Communications Outlet.* _For new construction, a minimum of one communications outlet shall be installed within the dwelling in a readily accessible area and cabled to the service provider demarcation point._
> 
> Yes, communications....not talking about telephone only.


 
So the NEC requires for all new construction, that the owner must pay some provider for communications to its services, whether or not the services are wanted or used by the owner. I assume after the owner has payed the provider for the install, the services can be cancelled, as long as the demarc is not removed, although not functioning, and this is NEC compliant.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

markstg said:


> So the NEC requires for all new construction, that the owner must pay some provider for communications to its services, whether or not the services are wanted or used by the owner. I assume after the owner has payed the provider for the install, the services can be cancelled, as long as the demarc is not removed, although not functioning, and this is NEC compliant.


That is just the point...the code does not really require the owner to contract for a communications service. The rule is intended to provide at least one pre-wired communication outlet for future use. The problem is that that rule is not correctly written and does not reflect the intent. The original proposal was submitted by someone who represented the "telecommunications association".


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> That is just the point...the code does not really require the owner to contract for a communications service. The rule is intended to provide at least one pre-wired communication outlet for future use. The problem is that that rule is not correctly written and does not reflect the intent. The original proposal was submitted by someone who represented the "telecommunications association".


Impossible. The NEC is not a design manual. Except for when it is. :thumbup:


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Semi-Ret Elctrician said:


> Sounds like the electrician sets the demarcation point by installing the phone and intersystem ground point near the meter then.
> 
> Doesn't the Phone Co. have to ground their demarcation point, same as Cable or Sat?
> 
> Have any phone types been prosecuted yet?:laughing:


AT&T specs specify that the demarc must be install within 10ft of the electric meter for grounding purposes.

I got so tired of arguing with GC about this spec that I photocopied the page and highlighted it. Just handed it to the GC when he started giving me chit!


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