# single ended vs. double ended led tubes



## John M. (Oct 29, 2016)

I have been using the direct wire LED tubes...like them. My supplier has the single ended ones; now I am seeing the double ended ones coming out. I would like to use whatever is going to be the standard. What is that?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Definitely go with the double ended. It takes a quarter of the time to do a retrofit. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I just made this post in this thread: https://www.electriciantalk.com/f29/older-flouresent-fixture-251186/



HackWork said:


> I just want to expand on this a little since I was getting myself confused and looked into it more yesterday.
> 
> You can buy single sided LED tubes which get the neutral fed to one pin and the hot fed to the other pin on the same side. This requires unshunted sockets. I have never used these.
> 
> ...


These are the ones I have been using with great results: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C52MA2Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Definitely go with the double ended. It takes a quarter of the time to do a retrofit.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


If you are replacing T12's that have non-shunted sockets in which single-sided LED replacements will work, it should take about the same amount of time. 

But the double sided ones work in more situations, such as common T8 fixtures with shunted sockets.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

HackWork said:


> If you are replacing T12's that have non-shunted sockets in which single-sided LED replacements will work, it should take about the same amount of time.
> 
> But the double sided ones work in more situations, such as common T8 fixtures with shunted sockets.


I need to relamp my basement Hax. But I have 7, 96" fixtures down there. Any suggestions?
I just used my last 96" tube from the case I bought 10 years ago. All magnetic ballasts as well. So they gotta go. 
Any suggestion is appreciated.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I need to relamp my basement Hax. But I have 7, 96" fixtures down there. Any suggestions?
> I just used my last 96" tube from the case I bought 10 years ago. All magnetic ballasts as well. So they gotta go.
> Any suggestion is appreciated.


For 8 footers I would just pick up whatever you can get locally. That’s a little long to have shipped and expect those horrible delivery people not to break them. 

I would probably wait until you actually need them, you could get another year or two out of what you have now and by then the price might be considerably cheaper.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> If you are replacing T12's that have non-shunted sockets in which single-sided LED replacements will work, it should take about the same amount of time.
> 
> 
> 
> But the double sided ones work in more situations, such as common T8 fixtures with shunted sockets.


I know. I was just too lazy to go into that detail. Actually the tubes we have been using can be used as either which is very handy so we don't have to stock both types. Typically LED tube ready fixtures have single ended wiring in them so we need both styles around.

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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

HackWork said:


> For 8 footers I would just pick up whatever you can get locally. That’s a little long to have shipped and expect those horrible delivery people not to break them.
> 
> I would probably wait until you actually need them, you could get another year or two out of what you have now and by then the price might be considerably cheaper.


Yea, I might be able to get a little more time from them until they start costing me. I have had to replace one ballast with an electronic ballast and I hate the thought of buying another case of tubes. 


I like the idea of doing them as needed. Appreciate it.
I guess I can keep replacing tubes and only upgrade when I have a ballast failure.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Yea, I might be able to get a little more time from them until they start costing me. I have had to replace one ballast with an electronic ballast and I hate the thought of buying another case of tubes.
> 
> 
> I like the idea of doing them as needed. Appreciate it.
> I guess I can keep replacing tubes and only upgrade when I have a ballast failure.


If you have a local place to pick them up, then I would just replace them as each one goes out, whether it be from the lamp dying or the ballast.

In my experience, 8' lamps might last you for years.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I did a place a little while back. I recall like 2400 bulbs, T8-direct drive led.

I used single ended, and replaced the 3 tombstones on the feed ends. stones came prewired with pigtails. $.35 each, tubes were $6.60.

Single ended is the way to go, with new tombstones. 
Cut all wires, and left ballast in fixtures to avoid recycling fees.

Time wise, we averaged 8 fixtures and hour/man.
Time includes all open cubicle areas, offices, and bathrooms.
Included about 12 2x2 u-bulb fixtures.


FWIW.

 Keystone LED


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> I used single ended, and replaced the 3 tombstones on the feed ends. stones came prewired with pigtails. $.35 each,


Did you order those online or did you get them local?

ETA: I just saw your edit with link. Thx.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I think 10 bad bulbs. Keystone I would recommend.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Yea, I might be able to get a little more time from them until they start costing me. I have had to replace one ballast with an electronic ballast and I hate the thought of buying another case of tubes.
> 
> 
> I like the idea of doing them as needed. Appreciate it.
> I guess I can keep replacing tubes and only upgrade when I have a ballast failure.


I have half a dozen 8 footers lighting my basement. I was almost out of lamps a few months ago and was considering my LED options. Then I stumbled across 2 cases of lamps at bLowes on clearance for 2 bucks a case. Scooped them right up. Peter D was pissed i got them 1st:vs_mad::wink:
Really wanted to upgrade to LED, but for that price, the payback is non-existant


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JoeSparky said:


> I have half a dozen 8 footers lighting my basement. I was almost out of lamps a few months ago and was considering my LED options. Then I stumbled across 2 cases of lamps at bLowes on clearance for 2 bucks a case. Scooped them right up. Peter D was pissed i got them 1st:vs_mad::wink:
> Really wanted to upgrade to LED, but for that price, the payback is non-existant


Lamps are not that bad. Its the ballasts that cost and require extra work.
$2 a case I'm all over it.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Lamps are not that bad. Its the ballasts that cost and require extra work.
> $2 a case I'm all over it.


I have one customer have bunch of T12 8 footer bulbs and I did change to LED and the one I installed they came with special connecter so two four footer become 8 footer and it work not too bad as long the ballast is bypassed then it work just fine. 

I just cant justify the cost of the ballast they are getting more expensive and little more limited on choice of it.


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## Wiredindallas (Aug 9, 2018)

One advise i have in regards to converting to direct wire LED is to label the fixture as to having converted. Some lamps come with such labels.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Wiredindallas said:


> One advise i have in regards to converting to direct wire LED is to label the fixture as to having converted. Some lamps come with such labels.


I would remove the existing ballast when line wiring the lamps so there will be no confusion.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I would remove the existing ballast when line wiring the lamps so there will be no confusion.


Someone can change the bulbs without opening the wiring compartment.

Having a sticker would tell them not to install normal fluorescent tubes.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Helmut said:


> Cut all wires, and left ballast in fixtures to avoid recycling fees.
> 
> I take mag ballasts to recycler and get $.10 / lb.. Sure beats having to
> pay to get rid of them.
> It's not much but it's something if you get a bunch of them.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> I would remove the existing ballast when line wiring the lamps so there will be no confusion.


Cut the wires short enough, there will be no confusion.


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## John M. (Oct 29, 2016)

Wiredindallas said:


> One advise i have in regards to converting to direct wire LED is to label the fixture as to having converted. Some lamps come with such labels.


I second that. Label your fixtures!!!! Anyone could pop a fluorescent lamp in them and....


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Wiredindallas said:


> One advise i have in regards to converting to direct wire LED is to label the fixture as to having converted. Some lamps come with such labels.


Satco lamps come with a big bunch of labels in the box. I think it is a code requirement to label rewired fixtures also. Maybe in the UL listing?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

John M. said:


> I second that. Label your fixtures!!!! Anyone could pop a fluorescent lamp in them and....


And then what? I'd like to know what would actually happen. I suspect it wouldn't be very dramatic.

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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Forge Boyz said:


> And then what? I'd like to know what would actually happen. I suspect it wouldn't be very dramatic.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I would imagine the installer would then look at the bulb he took out, and read the label on the bulb that says LED, if he didn't when he took it out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> I would imagine the installer would then look at the bulb he took out, and read the label on the bulb that says LED, if he didn't when he took it out.


What if the owner took them out when they stopped working and didn't know? 

In most situations LED bulbs are interchangeable with standard bulbs.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> John M. said:
> 
> 
> > I second that. Label your fixtures!!!! Anyone could pop a fluorescent lamp in them and....
> ...


I mistakenly wired 347 volts directly to a fluorescent bulb once. It exploded. 

Original installation had a remote slab mounted ballast for 4 bulbs that ran 4 separate single bulb lay in fixtures. PIA to make any changes so they wanted to install ballasts in every fixture and loose the remote ballast. I forgot to install one ballast and energized the bulb full voltage!


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Someone can change the bulbs without opening the wiring compartment.
> 
> Having a sticker would tell them not to install normal fluorescent tubes.


I read a sticker once when I was changing bulbs. Haven't bothered since and I'd sure be pissed if something blew up.

We keep the T8 ballasts in my neighbourhood. I get to change the ballasts down the road too. Money.

Anyway the cleaning lady changes the tubes. Calls me when they don't work.


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## armsjac (Dec 12, 2017)

I retrofitted a shop full of 8 foot fluorescents with 4 foot LED kits that included new tomb stones, brackets, and jumper wires. The lamps were single ended with no wires needed on the end tombstones. Only the center tombstones were connected to the 120 line that previously fed the ballast. I left the old ballasts in after cutting all the wires. Easy job, good profit. I can't remember the brand name of the kits but my supply house had them. So does Home Depot. They came with stickers to warn they were LED lamps.


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## worksmartnothard (Feb 14, 2019)

Pretty sure it’d be dramatic to install a flo bulb into straight 120v. Hence the stickers. Code around here


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## O'boy (Nov 29, 2020)

Helmut said:


> I did a place a little while back. I recall like 2400 bulbs, T8-direct drive led.
> 
> I used single ended, and replaced the 3 tombstones on the feed ends. stones came prewired with pigtails. $.35 each, tubes were $6.60.
> 
> ...


Personally I think double [dual] ended [4'] tubes are the way to go. It just seems so much more straight forward and uses the same logical configuration of old fluorescent tubes that are also double ended. I just cut all the wires "at" the old ballast and removed the ballast. Use the existing wire (and tombstones) to easily connect direct to the 120v. I use the old ballast black wire and semi-permanently connect it to the red and blue wires (one end). I use the old ballast white wire and semi-permanently connect it to the yellow wires (other end). This is so I have a hot/black and neutral/white wire for each fixture ready to hook up to the heavier gauge supply wire. 

I used single ended tubes for the first fixture I retrofitted to LED, a 2'x4' 4-light fixture at my shop. That was more work to convert and I had to pay more attention to the white and black wiring as I daisy chained across the four [new] tombstones on one side, making sure I got the polarity right. Both types work but the double end is just so easy. And when replacing tubes, you don't need to think about which end goes where. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.


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## O'boy (Nov 29, 2020)

HackWork said:


> Someone can change the bulbs without opening the wiring compartment.
> 
> Having a sticker would tell them not to install normal fluorescent tubes.


Yeah, I use the stickers and I also use a red sharpie to write "LED" in two places on the fixture, behind each tube. There's definitely room for confusion with all the possible configurations.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

worksmartnothard said:


> Pretty sure it’d be dramatic to install a flo bulb into straight 120v. Hence the stickers. Code around here


I tried it. Nothing. No drama.


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## O'boy (Nov 29, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> I tried it. Nothing. No drama.


How was your fixture wired? I wonder if there would be more drama if a fixture is wired for single-ended led tubes. That would make a direct short. That's one reason I like the dual end version.


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## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

Old thread but I do have a comment. I recently reworked 8' single pin T12 and T8 fixtures for keystone led lamps. The increase in light output is significant.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

tmessner said:


> Satco lamps come with a big bunch of labels in the box. I think it is a code requirement to label rewired fixtures also. Maybe in the UL listing?


I always try to stick them on the wiring cover... but nobody reads them.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Quickservice said:


> I always try to stick them on the wiring cover... but nobody reads them.


I believe the language reads " install label in a place conspicuous during relamping." Or something very close to that.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> I believe the language reads " install label in a place conspicuous during relamping." Or something very close to that.


You could stick them on a maintenance man's forehead and he still will put in a T8 fluorescent.


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## Cosmorok (Jun 3, 2019)

You could stick them on the maintenance man's coffee cup, he might notice the sticker then.


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