# Towel Warmer Over Tub



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Wish I could recall the code references but have seen this shot down just like a tv over the tub.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would insist on a code reference- Not sure why this would be an issue-- no shower and code allows lights to be installed there


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

This is code compliant as long as the fixture is damp location rated



NEC 410.10(D) said:


> Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension
> of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically
> from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be
> marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where
> subject to shower spray.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Dennis Alwon said:


> This is code compliant as long as the fixture is damp location rated


Is there anything in the listing etc. of the towel rack that says it's OK for damp locations? 

Or is it enough that it's implied since towels are inherently damp


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Never seen any issue with lights but have seen fireplaces (same 2 sided model) pass in several localities and not in others. One the inspector wanted turned around so the controls were on the opposite side of the tub.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

splatz said:


> Is there anything in the listing etc. of the towel rack that says it's OK for damp locations?
> 
> Or is it enough that it's implied since towels are inherently damp


That is what I mentioned in the first post-- I have not seen the info yet-- naturally that will be a deciding factor if it is not listed for the use.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

murphy's law: anything that can happen, will eventually happen.


what could happen ? a fault in the warmer ? someone slips and uses it to break their fall, it pulls loose, the wiring faults, and the person is electrocuted? your fault ? no. 

But because of Murphy's law I would not do that in my own bathroom, simply because I don't believe in standing in water and/or a large metal plate and grabbing ahold of an energized appliance. I just don't have that kind of trust in anybody - gfi manufacturer, towel heater manufacturer, whomever.

Now for the good part (Article 90). Is someone (inspector, master, qualified person) who is supposed to provide for the safe installation of energized items limited to what the code says in order to achieve this ? Clearly there are lots of inspectors who believe so, but is this limited to ahj ? If I had missed this item on plans and thereby tacitly agreed to do it, I think I would still try to get the homeowner/contractor/whomever to sign a hold harmless clause, simply because, as a qualified person, I think it is a bad idea and for nothing else, and if it was engineered rfi to engineer to verify that they believed it was safe.

or to make my argument shorter: I believe common sense should override the NEC (or any other code/laws).


as always, just my 02


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

wildleg said:


> murphy's law: anything that can happen, will eventually happen...I just don't have that kind of trust in anybody - gfi manufacturer, towel heater manufacturer, whomever.


I think this is another place in the home where I'd like it better if it was low voltage. They have fancy showers with electronic pushbutton controls inside, doesn't scare me because they operate at 12VDC.


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

the only towel warmer i have the dryer :laughing:
i really don't see a need for warming towels myself but then again im a tough old bird (heck i use to do the polar-bear swims every winter up until my heart attack)


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I've no code article that i can find....

Besides,it seem to me every bath appliance gets a pass if GFCI'd

~CS~


----------



## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Dennis Alwon said:


> This is code compliant as long as the fixture is damp location rated


410.10(D) prohibits anything protruding 8ft above or 2ft out except for sconces. That is kinda odd that it doesn't include sconces.

Nothing in 422 about it either. 

My first thought though is no way would I do that. It just doesn't seam right.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Anyone see an issue with this install? I have a customer who wants it like this and afaik if the manufacture doesn't forbid it then it is good to go. I have not seen an article that forbids the install.


I cannot find a code reference that would support ahj red tagging this.
Also , wall sconces are not mentioned in limitations over tub area in
410 D...curious??? I would however double check those particular wall
sconces UL listing for damp / wet location...the shades over the bulb
(to me observing from here) do not seem to meet wet/damp location
criteria...I would definitely gfci protect across the switch leg for the 2
sconces.:thumbsup:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Also , wall sconces are not mentioned in limitations over tub area in
> 410 D...curious??? I would however double check those particular wall
> sconces UL listing for damp / wet location...the shades over the bulb
> (to me observing from here) do not seem to meet wet/damp location
> ...


The installer is a member at mike holt forum and he assured us it was damp location rated


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You must be involved in some _high end_ resi work to worry about towel warmers in a bath Denny. :thumbsup:

Personally, i'm a tad jealous ,working in places where i wonder when the occupants bathed last.....

~C_(smell ya later)_S~


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> You must be involved in some _high end_ resi work to worry about towel warmers in a bath Denny. :thumbsup:
> 
> Personally, i'm a tad jealous ,working in places where i wonder when the occupants bathed last.....
> 
> ~C_(smell ya later)_S~


I get that and have been there. I was at a hoarders house 20 years ago. He wanted a few outlets installed. I looked at him and said why you can't even get to the walls-- I told him to call me when the place was clear..:thumbup:

Yeah lately we have been doing lots of new work and remodels of newer homes. We do have one that will be a bit nasty but we will just have to deal with it.

Last house we finished took over 3 years- $250,000 in light fixtures-- I would say that is high end- also high maintenance


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

gnuuser said:


> the only towel warmer i have the dryer :laughing:
> i really don't see a need for warming towels myself but then again im a tough old bird (heck i use to do the polar-bear swims every winter up until my heart attack)


That's probably why you had the heart attack! :laughing:


...sorry, I couldn't resist it.


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Is this in the foot print of the tub?


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The NEC has some real crackhead stuff in it sometimes. Wooden ceiling fan blades are not allowed closer than three feet from the tub unless they are more than 8 ft above the highest point, but that electrical resistive load is allowed in the tub..........


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Is this in the foot print of the tub?


No but I see nothing that wouldn't allow it.


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I don't see anything for or against. If it's not in foot print or too close bla bla bla in addition to how it's powered, I guess it's fine!?


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

GFCI protect it and hang it up.


----------



## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

InPhase277 said:


> GFCI protect it and hang it up.


As long as it's rated for damp locations the man has a point. Throw a GFCI on it and bill the customer.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wouldn'tth e inside of the tub space be considered a wet location?


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> Wouldn'tth e inside of the tub space be considered a wet location?


Only if shower spray hits it, otherwise it's only a damp area.
OP said no shower so..........


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Majewski said:


> I don't see anything for or against. If it's not in foot print or too close bla bla bla in addition to how it's powered, I guess it's fine!?


You say if it is not in the footprint or too close---Is this your opinion or do you have a code section to back it up?


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis, I would be asking YOU if this was code compliant, not you asking us. :laughing:


----------



## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Dennis, I have pulled up specs for three different towel warming racks. All three are listed for damp locations and all three require gfci protection. One however does state to not install within 3 feet of a bath tub so if the mounting hardware were to come loose it would have the potential to fall into the tub. That brand is a Jeeves.


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You say if it is not in the footprint or too close---Is this your opinion or do you have a code section to back it up?


Both. It's my opinion at the moment without any reference in my memory.
But it's based off of a tub (no shower above) that I just did. Client wanted a tv above and a light switch so it's not exactly same device/equipment but it jogged my memory that I couldn't have anything in the "foot print" but an approved hard wired item gfci protected should be fine. I mean, none of us can find codes against it, not nec at least, right?

The other post is also spot on, wouldn't we normally be asking YOU for advice on this? Hehe


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The tv over the tub is not the issue it is the receptacle. The code has rules for receptacles, switch and lights but nothing else afaik.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Dennis, I would be asking YOU if this was code compliant, not you asking us. :laughing:


We;ll I was pretty sure it was a matter of the manufacturers instructions and not the NEC but I thought maybe someone knew of something hidden somewhere that may relate to this.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

About the only code related _anything _i can possibly think of would be wondering if 110.3(B) and 90.4 would butt heads Denny.....

~CS~


----------



## Stonecutter (Jul 26, 2013)

It's within the tub or shower space. Move it if is not listed to be within that space. 410.10(D) for the definition of tub and shower space, 110.3(B).


----------



## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

IslandGuy said:


> Wouldn'tth e inside of the tub space be considered a wet location?


with kids, yes it is a wet location :laughing:


----------

