# Costly Mistake? Halo H99ICAT Cans



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

onilozay said:


> I think I made a costly blunder, I wish I had have paid closer attention.
> 
> My understanding for Title 24 LED lighting is that you cannot have an edison base for recessed cans. Is this correct?
> 
> ...


You should read through that Title 24 and make sure that is the case.

Also if Edison Based fixtures are not allowed by title 24, why are they for sale at Home Depot?:blink:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Perhaps call Halo and ask how to cut out the edison for a direct splice?










~CS~


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Perhaps call Halo and ask how to cut out the edison for a direct splice?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That still has an Edison base and it may violate title 24. California is so ****ed up with all the ****ing regulations. That state is a ****ing piece of poo.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Yeah, i know Chris

I'd ask to chop off/splice direct

'eff edison and his crappy bases! :laughing:

~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

If you don't want to pay the tuition for that sweet lesson you just received and you are a gambler, change six of them and let the inspector see those. Put the paint protection paper over the rest of them and say three Hail Marys.
Otherwise, Tear them out for use on another job and put in what you were paid to install. I doubt you paid more than 7 buck a piece for them.

Also, use a professional supply house and stay out of HD.
My supplier would take all of those cans back in a heartbeat. They have a percent return credit system they use with their vendors and can make allowances just like that.
HD might also. I've seen some real crap come back they try to sell as new.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Depot will take them back. Jist take it easy removing the nails.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

HD will take anything back. 
And gladly place it back on the shelves without inspecting it.


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

Why the hell are you not allowed to use standard screw type like the rest of the civilized world?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Cut the Edison base off and put your ballast disconnect on those two wires. Nobody will know.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Cut the Edison base off and put your ballast disconnect on those two wires. Nobody will know.


Do this


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

onilozay said:


> Don't think there's a solution, but any ideas/help much appreciated. Thanks.


mcclary's electrical posted the solution methinks. No marrs in the can tho.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wpgshocker said:


> Why the hell are you not allowed to use standard screw type like the rest of the civilized world?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Because it is an energy code and someone can change the bulbs out to regular incandescent. With the other style there is no way to change it without changing the can.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

onilozay said:


> I think I made a costly blunder, I wish I had have paid closer attention.
> 
> My understanding for Title 24 LED lighting is that you cannot have an edison base for recessed cans. Is this correct?
> 
> ...


Please aware me of the thought process that goes behind this line of thought. So you recognize that you were responsible for what you did and you screwed up. Then, I lost why you think the big orange owe you anything.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Electric_Light said:


> Please aware me of the thought process that goes behind this line of thought. So you recognize that you were responsible for what you did and you screwed up. Then, I lost why you think the big orange owe you anything.


It's called customer service.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Oh I bet he would be all in favor of the Home Depot if this thread was about fluorescent lights.......


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> Please aware me of the thought process that goes behind this line of thought. So you recognize that you were responsible for what you did and you screwed up. Then, I lost why you think the big orange owe you anything.


Ummmm. They have a no questions asked return policy. Why would he be wrong to take them back of they allow it? 

Don't get me wrong, if they only accepted unopened packages, amd he lied and said he never used them, that would be wrong. But if he walks in they say, is there anything wrong with them? Amd he says, "no" why is that wrong?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> It's called customer service.


:001_huh: If the customer wasn't paying attention and specified the wrong stuff you wouldn't waive the bill to do it all over again at your loss. 

If the business is slow and your guys are in need of work, I can see waiving the markup and doing the redo and only billing actual incurred cost as customer service. It's unreasonable to expect that you'd take a loss and take the bullet for the actual cost as well. I don't know why you'd expect suppliers to expect anything else.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> :001_huh: If the customer wasn't paying attention and specified the wrong stuff you wouldn't waive the bill to do it all over again at your loss.
> 
> If the business is slow and your guys are in need of work, I can see waiving the markup and doing the redo and only billing actual incurred cost as customer service. It's unreasonable to expect that you'd take a loss and take the bullet for the actual cost as well. I don't know why you'd expect suppliers to expect anything else.


Read this

http://m.homedepot.com/c/Return_Policy



And see if he would be breaking any rules


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Ummmm. They have a no questions asked return policy. Why would he be wrong to take them back of they allow it?


I was just making a comment about entitlement expectations. "reimbursement" portrays that they owe him for his own mistake.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> I was just making a comment about entitlement expectations. "reimbursement" portrays that they owe him for his own mistake.


No. They would owe him for the goods he is returning.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Because it is an energy code and someone can change the bulbs out to regular incandescent. With the other style there is no way to change it without changing the can.





Because any state that elects a " Terminator " for Governor , can do what it likes .



Pete


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

It will cost you way more in labor to take them down and replace them with ones that have a ballast disconnect in them anyway. So yeah, do what McClary said.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Electric_Light said:


> I was just making a comment about entitlement expectations. "reimbursement" portrays that they owe him for his own mistake.


Do you think big orange would jist throw the cans away? They will just put them right back on the shelf and someone else will buy them and install them HD is out almost 0 dollars. If you think they wont restock them because they have already been installed, then you are mistaken.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Been here before and you will get caught title 24 sucks this is how I fixed this same problem. Go to depot get led cans,pull led connector leads out of cans,Pull Edison lamp holder out of installed cans,put led connector in existing cans,put Edison base in led cans and return to depot for refund and all good.Yes title 24 blows but it will be in all states soon enough and you will want to quit this trade. If you are not in cali you have no idea how hard this makes things!


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## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

In the commercial world we now have to install dimmable ballasts on nearly everything, only small offices can be locally controlled ie @ the switch). We have to run mc that has a 18/2 low voltage wire in it. Day lighting photocells are required, dimmable LCPs. The old days of building your own can with contactors and a timeclock are pretty much over. You now have to pay a couple grand to get an independent certification to prove you comply with Title 24. It's getting more and more fun.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Cut the Edison base off and put your ballast disconnect on those two wires. Nobody will know.


Every time I have told the inspector I was going to do this they have been cool with it. 

The problem stems from the old fluorescent in the kitchen that everyone hated and were usually replaced with incandescent's before the inspector had made it to his truck. Everybody likes LEDs and I have never been asked to replace them yet, so the Edison base problem is moot.


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## onilozay (Jun 16, 2013)

Wow, that was a lively response! Anyhow, I bit the bullet and changed them out today. Yes, Home Depot didn't have to take them, but I was lucky, they did.

Good advice, I'll stay out of HD as much as possible, the Supply houses, specifically Laner Electric and Emperor are usually better in prices and always have stock. 

But customer service was not bad at home Depot, just wish they'd stock things more consistently. Anyhow Thanks!


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

onilozay said:


> But customer service was not bad at home Depot, just wish they'd stock things more consistently. Anyhow Thanks!



Whatever the project, no matter how big or how small, HD is out of stock of 1 thing you need to complete it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Can u just butt crimp or wirenut trim without Edison socket?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Can u just butt crimp or wirenut trim without Edison socket?


A little late to the party Doc?


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

Glad it worked out


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## ElectronFlow (Dec 21, 2014)

OaklandElec said:


> In the commercial world we now have to install dimmable ballasts on nearly everything, only small offices can be locally controlled ie @ the switch). We have to run mc that has a 18/2 low voltage wire in it. Day lighting photocells are required, dimmable LCPs. The old days of building your own can with contactors and a timeclock are pretty much over. You now have to pay a couple grand to get an independent certification to prove you comply with Title 24. It's getting more and more fun.


All of that, and more.

Commercial lighting in CA is not something you want to do free expression
with. The job needs to be permitted, it's a lot less risky to have engineered
drawings instead of something you designed yourself. Unless you REALLY
know what you are doing, self designing is a poor strategy.

There really are not any small mistakes with this stuff. The hardware is expensive, you cannot substitute different fixtures or controls, and if you make up the design, and get blown out of the water on certification, YOU get to buy the stuff to make it right.

Electrical Engineers tend to overkill the design to limit their liability in the event that the design doesn't comply with Title 24. I've seen two fiascos so far. One of them is a small electrical remodel that went south. An under $10,000 electrical project is sitting somewhere around $225,000 to get it to comply.
The other one is worse than that.

If you are contracting in CA, install exactly what is shown on the engineered, approved, permitted drawings. No substitutions. Have it certified by a third party if you don't have the ability to certify it yourself. MAKE SURE the certification is legitimate.

Then collect your money, and walk away. Keep a copy of the certificate of compliance with your job papers.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

ElectronFlow said:


> All of that, and more.
> 
> Commercial lighting in CA is not something you want to do free expression
> with. The job needs to be permitted, it's a lot less risky to have engineered
> ...


Without going all through the mud - - what triggered the uproar ?

The cost explosion implies that the AHJ killed grandfathered status -- and compelled a total rehab.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wpgshocker said:


> Why the hell are you not allowed to use standard screw type like the rest of the civilized world?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I believe if you read the energy code you would not be allowed as someone could easily unscrew the trim. The part I don't understand is who is going to do that and it is so hard to get a good incandescent today that you are probably going to have to use LED at some point whether you want to or not.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jrannis said:


> A little late to the party Doc?


Im always late, had to sober up to drive[emoji4] 

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

The entire US will have to deal with the unavailability of incandescent lamps. You will not be able to buy any 60-75-100 etc. watt incandescents anymore, because they won't be making any in Hungary or whatever. Maybe some China knock offs from the 99 Cent that might last 30 hours. The edison based screw shell ban is to prevent the cheaters who will put in CFL's, get a job passed, remove the CFL's and put incandescents in, and take the CFL's to the next job. 

Next will be T-12 fluorescent lamps, they are being phased out.

Title 24 in California is just a preview of what's to come in the entire US. May seem dumb but with 38 million people a little conservation goes a long way. Even Texas has adopted the IECC.

http://www.cnet.com/news/its-the-end-of-the-light-bulb-as-we-know-it/


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wpgshocker said:


> Why the hell are you not allowed to use standard screw type like the rest of the civilized world?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


To prevent drowning.

You see, because the customer might screw in a standard 100 watt incandescent bulb, causing the utility to have to crank up another ozone depleting coal fume belching generator, causing severe global warming, which will cause the polar ice caps to melt causing the sea levels to rise therefore flooding all of California, where everyone would drown.


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## ElectronFlow (Dec 21, 2014)

telsa said:


> Without going all through the mud - - what triggered the uproar ?
> 
> The cost explosion implies that the AHJ killed grandfathered status -- and compelled a total rehab.


Yup. Poor move on GC's part triggered it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Oh well,, things could be worse......... 

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/lonely-life-of-roberto-esquivel-cabrera-the-man-with-the-worlds-longest-penis/story-fneuzlbd-1227506743937


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