# Add CCT without altering the drywall



## Julius793 (Nov 29, 2011)

746 Watts said:


> Hi, I'm curious how you can add a new CCT cable to a new breaker in a recessed home breaker panel which is flush with the drywall, without removing any drywall?
> 
> I was thinking that I could wire everything like how we do it on a new house with no drywall, but instead of going from outside of the panel to the inside, just go from the inside of the panel to the outside. Like do everything the complete opposite.
> 
> ...


I have no clue what cct cable is but if you have an open attic yes fishing is very possibly an option without drywall damage.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

You can pull the panel cover and use a flat head or bent flat head to pry up a ko...you can pop out a ko any number of ways and then fish into it....


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Julius793 said:


> I have no clue what cct cable is but if you have an open attic yes fishing is very possibly an option without drywall damage.


CCT = Circuit. 

He needs to work around more experienced j-men. 

Then he'd know all these tricks.

Until then, he ought to scroll through back threads here at ET.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

ALSO.....cutting drywall out, putting it back, patching the seams and matching the paint isn't too hard. But that's not the point here is it?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Insulated wall?


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking that as well, that you can probably remove the panel face and then cut a bit of drywall along the panel edge if I had to, to a get a connector in and then the bordering lip of the panel face will cover any damage.

That's correct, I have never done any renovation or service call work with other J-men. I have only done new construction with J-Men which is pretty straight forward stuff usually. All of my additions to old construction I have done learning on my own trying to figure out as I go. Definitely should hire on at a company that does service calls one day to get more experience at it. 

Every youtube video I have searched for of guys adding new circuits or adding a sub panel to an existing panel, have all been easy surface mounts. No one has demonstrated any flush mount hidden panel work from what I can find.

I did a forum word search and I couldn't find too much info about methods of putting cable connectors on a box from the inside out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Pop a KO from inside of the panel. This may be easy, or you may have to drive a self tapping screw into the KO and then use a pair of pliers to grab the screw and twist the KO out.

Put a magnet inside of the KO opening. It will stick to the panel right outside of the KO.

Go to the attic and drill a hole, then drop a chain down to the magnet, you will feel when they mate. Tape the cable to the chain and put it into the hole.

Go back to the panel and pull the magnet and chain out of the panel carefully, then pull down the cable into the panel. 

Use a connector that is made to be installed from inside of the panel. Done.

This is where the customer is happy to pay you a very large sum of money because you did it professionally, instead of listening to the hacks who tell you to rip open the customer's walls cause it's easy to patch and paint.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

.....


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

99cents said:


> Insulated wall?


It is.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

746 Watts said:


> It is.


When the wall is insulated, modify what I said above by taping the chain to the end of a fiberglass rod and sending it down to the panel. Then from the panel use a magnet on the end of a flexible wand to find the chain from the KO in the panel.

After a while of doing this you will make a kit of fishing tools like this:


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

Thanks Hack. I'll have to try out your recommended magnet way and see if the wholesaler carriers the reversed connectors. I've always fought with rods and metallic fish tapes in the past.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Pop a KO from inside of the panel. This may be easy, or you may have to drive a self tapping screw into the KO and then use a pair of pliers to grab the screw and twist the KO out.
> 
> Put a magnet inside of the KO opening. It will stick to the panel right outside of the KO.
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. Never tried it. It beats putting a tape in each end and fumbling around trying to get the hooks to grab each other (which sometimes works).

Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient.

He didn't answer my question about an insulated wall.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

99cents said:


> Interesting idea. Never tried it. It beats putting a tape in each end and fumbling around trying to get the hooks to grab each other (which sometimes works).
> 
> Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient.
> 
> He didn't answer my question about an insulated wall.


he Did though, post 10.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient.


Expedient has absolutely nothing to do with it. We're not there to get things done fast, we are there to do a professional job. 

Breaking open walls when unnecessary is hack.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

99cents said:


> Interesting idea. Never tried it. It beats putting a tape in each end and fumbling around trying to get the hooks to grab each other (which sometimes works).
> 
> Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient.
> 
> He didn't answer my question about an insulated wall.


99 cents.,,

I done the same way as Hackwork done as he described and it can be done espcally with some type of walls ya cant really breach it open for some reason espcally with wood panelings that is the worst. 

Yes the OP did answer it and he do have insluated wall.

to OP just follow what Hackwork describe I know at first it kinda hard but once you know how to deal with it .. it will become more easier as the time go by. 

As long ya don't hit firestops you will be fine.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Firestops adds in a whole new bag o tricks.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Majewski said:


> Firestops adds in a whole new bag o tricks.


It is a new bag of tricks for sure...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Majewski said:


> he Did though, post 10.


I missed that.

It's Canada. Vapour barriers are sacred.

I always try to discourage customers from fooling around with insulated walls if there's an option to use a partition wall. If it's an insulated wall, the only proper way to do it is patch and paint (with apologies to Sir Hack).


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Expedient has absolutely nothing to do with it. We're not there to get things done fast, we are there to do a professional job.
> 
> Breaking open walls when unnecessary is hack.


Huh? Who said "unnecessary"?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I missed that.
> 
> It's Canada. Vapour barriers are sacred.
> 
> I always try to discourage customers from fooling around with insulated walls if there's an option to use a partition wall. If it's an insulated wall, the only proper way to do it is patch and paint (with apologies to Sir Hack).


The OP is asking how to get a cable into a panel. There is no option of using a partition wall. No one cares about your vapor barrier. The OP is specifically asking how to do it without damaging the wall.

A pro can get that cable into the panel while keeping the customer happy by not destroying their wall, and he can charge large for it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Huh? Who said "unnecessary"?


I did, you quoted me saying it.

There are very few times when it's necessary to open a wall. Sometimes you can't avoid it, but not that often.


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

I have had to do some drywall hacking in my house due to fire stops. I do all my learning on my house before I go out and attempt stuff on anyone else's house. 

My house is from the 1950s and has renovations on top of renovations. Like 3 layers of different wall types nailed over top of each other. Like plaster, then plywood with veneer, then drywall. So a fish usually gets hung up in the plaster slats and sawdust insulation.

On the exterior walls, the roof angle gets very narrow toward the exterior walls away from the peak, so it is almost impossible to get in there with a drill with only about a foot of clearance between the head on the studs and roof when trying to drill and to fish those outer walls. I've done it twice before with great difficulty.

I was thinking it might be easier to remove the aluminum soffiting and stand on a ladder outside of the house to drill through those exterior wall heads, rather than lying face down in the attic with my arm stretch as far as I can go to reach the spot to drill.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

That's when a stubby Daredevil spade bit in a 12v impact gun really shines. It's small and easy to use while reaching in with one arm.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> That's when a stubby Daredevil spade bit in a 12v impact gun really shines. It's small and easy to use while reaching in with one arm.


That is one of few ways ya can do that and also I used the fexiable drill bit it not too bad as long you know how to drill it in large arc curve.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The OP is asking how to get a cable into a panel. There is no option of using a partition wall. No one cares about your vapor barrier. The OP is specifically asking how to do it without damaging the wall.
> 
> A pro can get that cable into the panel while keeping the customer happy by not destroying their wall, and he can charge large for it.


Do you charge large when you cut notches underneath joists and then cover up the cable with gobs of mud? I'm trying to help this guy out and you're asking for a pi$$ing contest.

YOU may not care about vapour barriers but we do.

He's talking about two things - running the cable into the panel but where is that cable going? If he's planting a device box in an insulated wall, there are things we need to pay attention to.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

99cents said:


> Interesting idea. Never tried it. It beats putting a tape in each end and fumbling around trying to get the hooks to grab each other (which sometimes works).
> 
> Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient.
> 
> He didn't answer my question about an insulated wall.


This will work without a fire block. 
I love old homes without fire blocks. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

This is a job for Tom 2 Way


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Do you charge large when you cut notches underneath joists and then cover up the cable with gobs of mud?


 Absolutely. That's the whole point, the customer is happy that a hack didn't make huge and unnecessary holes. 



> I'm trying to help this guy out and you're asking for a pi$$ing contest.


 No, you are not helping. You are doing your normal thing of telling people to make holes when they shouldn't be. The OP specifically asked about doing it without making holes.



> YOU may not care about vapour barriers but we do.


 The OP doesn't.



> He's talking about two things - running the cable into the panel but where is that cable going? If he's planting a device box in an insulated wall, there are things we need to pay attention to.


He's talking about one thing, getting the cable into the panel without making holes. I gave him multiple options to do exactly what he is looking to do, both in an open and insulated wall.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm going to ignore your trolling, Hack, and explain a few things:

This is Canada. The first thing we pay attention to when fishing cable is maintaining the integrity of exterior walls. Obviously, this is an older home with no vapour barrier so we can do things differently.

An impact driver with a Daredevil bit definitely works in tight spots. If he needs more reach after he has done some drilling he can add a short bit extender.

His original question was about starting to fish at the panel or the other end. In my mind, it doesn't really matter. It usually requires scoping out the job, looking for chases, air returns, etc. Sometimes you try something, hit a dead end and then try a Plan B. Sometimes old homes have very high baseboards or crown moulding and that can provide the opportunity to cover up your work as well.

You're going to attack me for this idea like you have before but, if he plans on replacing flooring, he can possibly cut out subfloor and run new wiring through the floor.

If he's adding switching, he can take a look at Lutron wireless.

Of course, what do I know? I only do this for a living.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I'm going to ignore your trolling, Hack, and explain a few things:


 I am not trolling. I wasn't going to say this, but since you are now accusing me of trolling, I will say it. You haven't helped the OP. Not in any way.

The OP asked very clear questions in which I have taken the time to try and help him. He was very specific about not opening the wall.

You are the one trolling. In every thread that talks about snaking and fishing you tell them to just destroy the wall or rip up floors. Professionals don't do that. Opening walls is the *last resort*. Part of our job is finding ways to run wiring without having to make holes. 

The proof is in the puddling. I commonly have customers say to me "_You're not going to make a lot of big holes, are you?_". And my answer is always "_No, we do our best not to make any holes, and when we have to we make small ones_". They love that, and they are willing to pay a premium for it. That's what this is about, happy customers and big checks. 

And if I ever told you my company name you can go look at the reviews in which at least a dozen specifically mention my company being able to get things in that other contractors said they couldn't as well as praises for not making holes.



> Of course, what do I know? I only do this for a living.


 Do you really? Because the last I heard you only do renovations for a specific contractor and in reno work the walls are usually opened and opening one more area doesn't make much of a difference since there will be a plasterer and painter there anyway.

I don't do renovations, all of my work is closed walls and I find ways to snake the vast majority of the time. That is clearly what the OP is asking about.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I am not trolling. I wasn't going to say this, but since you are now accusing me of trolling, I will say it. You haven't helped the OP. Not in any way.
> 
> The OP asked very clear questions in which I have taken the time to try and help him. He was very specific about not opening the wall.
> 
> ...


So you think my list of happy customers doesn't match up with yours'?

I have never suggested destroying walls. Your word, not mine. If surgery is required, there are ways to minimize the damage and make repairs easier. Obviously I don't open things up if it's not required. I'm not stupid.

Plumbers often remove subfloor. Sometimes it's a viable option for us as well.

I'm trying to help this guy out with the work he is doing in his own home. If my information is useless, he can decide, not you.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

zac said:


> This will work without a fire block.
> I love old homes without fire blocks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Around here, I can't recall ANYONE placing fire blocks above a panel. 

The panel chassis, itself, is rated as a fire block.

Now, if you're talking cutting in old work//GEM boxes, yeah.

You get around them by noting that you can work down the gap in the corners of most stud bays -- even if insulated -- to drill in a back or near side corner.

This location will also be missing fire block attaching nails. No carpenter fires them in right in the corner, that's too slow and difficult. He'll slam them in about 7/8" in from the working edged of the stud. That's how you avoid nail strikes -- usually. 

{ There's always some wood butcher that didn't get the news. }

If you're cutting in an old work box, you're best off being near a stud -- but not right on it. 

A NIB magnet gives away stud locations... some thumping gives away the fire block height. It will always be at some place 'comfy' for the framer.

Multiple fire blocks are a commercial 'thing' here in California -- so don't worry about them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> So you think my list of happy customers doesn't match up with yours'?


 Any customer that had to get a plasterer and painter in to fix the mess you made unnecessarily isn't as happy as a customer who had a good electrician do it the right way.



> If surgery is required, there are ways to minimize the damage and make repairs easier.


 Like the notches that I posted and you cried about. 



> Obviously I don't open things up if it's not required. I'm not stupid.


 Bologna. You're the one who said this: "_Patch and paint isn't hack, though. Sometimes it's more expedient_." "Expedient" does not equal "necessary". If you made holes just because it was more expedient (ie. convenient), than you made unnecessary holes. 



> I'm trying to help this guy out with the work he is doing in his own home. If my information is useless, he can decide, not you.


Like I said, you haven't answered a single question he asked. So instead of accusing me of trolling, why not help him find ways to get that cable into the panel without making holes?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

tes, I ran into 2 panels with blocks above it a few months ago!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> tes, I ran into 2 panels with blocks above it a few months ago!


Are you sure it was a fireblock?

Often times they install a 2X4 above a panel on its flat edge in order to staple the cables to when they come out of the top of the panel. You will feel it with a snake or fiberglass rod, but if you aim the snake or rod inwards towards the drywall/plaster there is plenty of room to go down past it.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Pretty sure because I ended up just removing sections of drywall lol. I however repair the wall myself so it doesn't look like the work ever took place. But that's because it's how the customer wanted it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Pretty sure because I ended up just removing sections of drywall lol. I however repair the wall myself so it doesn't look like the work ever took place. But that's because it's how the customer wanted it.


Gotcha. 

Next time though, keep what I said in mind about trying to go past the front of it. It just may work :thumbsup:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Any customer that had to get a plasterer and painter in to fix the mess you made unnecessarily isn't as happy as a customer who had a good electrician do it the right way.
> 
> Like the notches that I posted and you cried about.
> 
> ...


You yourself have suggested opening things up and covering it up with a nice panel from Home Depot. I have done the same thing in an inconspicuous place like in a closet. I guess we're both hacks.

I will ignore your troll remark about a "real" electrician.

You came up with an idea for getting the cable into the panel. I will add that to my own bag of tricks. That's what this site is about. It's not a pi$$ing contest over who is the better electrician.

Like I said, the OP can decide on the value of my advice. I doubt he is as judgmental as you.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Oh that's typically what it is. I just remembered it and felt like sharing. Honestly though when you and 99 are done arguing your points, you both add good info for the OP.... a lot of good info was given quickly. Now the OP just needs to start practicing.

Magnapull ftw though!


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

telsa said:


> Around here, I can't recall ANYONE placing fire blocks above a panel.
> 
> The panel chassis, itself, is rated as a fire block.
> 
> ...


You know Tesla I was wondering that myself. I can't honestly recall seeing one (fire block).
The bundles of wire can be something though....I've had a hard time fishing wires when I had limited access. 
I try my best to limit damage...but if the homeowner isn't willing for possible drywall repair. I'm not the guy. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> You yourself have suggested opening things up and covering it up with a nice panel from Home Depot. I have done the same thing in an inconspicuous place like in a closet. I guess we're both hacks.


Only.when.necessary.

I.have.made.many.holes.. ..But.only.when.necessary... .Convenient.does.not.equal.necessary.. ....Saving.a.little.time.does.not.equal.necessary.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Majewski said:


> tes, I ran into 2 panels with blocks above it a few months ago!


Oh, my !

I hope that never catches on around here.

Just getting through a 'California top plate' is battle enough. 

( These are nailed like you can't imagine... it's the earthquakes.)

Our panels are so tall, with their tops so close to the top plate... there's no purpose to slapping in a fire block -- that's filled with bore holes, to boot. :no:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

zac said:


> You know Tesla I was wondering that myself. I can't honestly recall seeing one (fire block).
> The bundles of wire can be something though....I've had a hard time fishing wires when I had limited access.
> I try my best to limit damage...but if the homeowner isn't willing for possible drywall repair. I'm not the guy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Local Code around here _demands _closed up panel stud bays -- WITH at least one (3/4") EMT stub up and out for future circuits. (This is for residential SFH. )

Old work, really old work, it's another thing all together.

Heh.

Placerville is one of the oldest towns west of the Mississippi river. It has the oldest hardware store west of the Mississippi, too. It's not my cup of tea, BTW. I'll let the young pups get all that action.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Since the op is kinda new at this sort of thing, I will give him the one tip nobody else has bothered to do.



*TURN THE POWER OFF TO THE PANEL BEFORE YOU DROP ANY CHAINS DOWN INTO IT.* (unless you are experienced enough to make a proper cardboard dam that will prevent any accidents......) I don't know your level so I am having to assume you might forget this step.


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

Majewski said:


> Oh that's typically what it is. I just remembered it and felt like sharing. Honestly though when you and 99 are done arguing your points, you both add good info for the OP.... a lot of good info was given quickly. Now the OP just needs to start practicing.
> 
> Magnapull ftw though!


Yes, lots of good information to think about! Wish I would have asked years ago. I never thought to look online for a electrician discussion forum, because I thought I could get all the info I needed from the guys I work with. But the reality is, a lot of guys are not interested in explaining the trade. Also, a lot of guys don't have the answers due to lack of experience or because they avoid all the difficult parts of the trade like troubleshooting service calls and they stick with the easy new construction jobs.

To deliver better work, I'm going to have to get some more practice for sure, and switch over to some different tools. Like get proper plastic rods, chain, magnets, retrievers, flex bit, and probably a borescope. 

A couple years ago I was worried about the legality of drilling through fire block, because in some places around North America you have to plug up the fire stop. So, I chickened out from drilling it, returned the flex bit to the store, and ran the cable outside the house. Then talking to experienced J-men I found out it is acceptable and normal practice to drill through it. So, lesson learned, next time I drilled through it. Build up and develop the knowledge over time and then put it to use the next time.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Since the op is kinda new at this sort of thing, I will give him the one tip nobody else has bothered to do.
> 
> 
> 
> *TURN THE POWER OFF TO THE PANEL BEFORE YOU DROP ANY CHAINS DOWN INTO IT.* (unless you are experienced enough to make a proper cardboard dam that will prevent any accidents......) I don't know your level so I am having to assume you might forget this step.


Yeah, I forgot to mention that, but it's a given when using snakes or anything else in a panel.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i read this all and still dont know what CCT cable is. wont say how many years in the biz, but that one dont ring the bell!


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

746 Watts said:


> Yes, lots of good information to think about! Wish I would have asked years ago. I never thought to look online for a electrician discussion forum, because I thought I could get all the info I needed from the guys I work with. But the reality is, a lot of guys are not interested in explaining the trade. Also, a lot of guys don't have the answers due to lack of experience or because they avoid all the difficult parts of the trade like troubleshooting service calls and they stick with the easy new construction jobs.
> 
> To deliver better work, I'm going to have to get some more practice for sure, and switch over to some different tools. Like get proper plastic rods, chain, magnets, retrievers, flex bit, and probably a borescope.
> 
> A couple years ago I was worried about the legality of drilling through fire block, because in some places around North America you have to plug up the fire stop. So, I chickened out from drilling it, returned the flex bit to the store, and ran the cable outside the house. Then talking to experienced J-men I found out it is acceptable and normal practice to drill through it. So, lesson learned, next time I drilled through it. Build up and develop the knowledge over time and then put it to use the next time.


Tons of tools, tricks, methods but only you can pick the ones you like for the materials you're up against. You can find anything anywhere once you learn how to look. For bore scopes you can find cheapos that fit phones or computers and also can be taped to fish rods. Some brand rods have awesome accessories while some have few! Fishing from top to the bottom and vice versa can be timely but very effective. Chains, magnets, etc etc....all good. You getting more into resi or something?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

ADI is your buddy. Shop there.


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

papaotis said:


> i read this all and still dont know what CCT cable is. wont say how many years in the biz, but that one dont ring the bell!


CCT it is just an abbreviation for "circuit." In this case will probably just be a 14/2 home run.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Here's the thing I mentioned in the earlier post.
http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/96/Panel-Buddy-Knockout-Kit


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

746 Watts said:


> CCT it is just an abbreviation for "circuit." In this case will probably just be a 14/2 home run.


sorry, the only way ive seen that is just CT or CRT.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

telsa said:


> Local Code around here _demands _closed up panel stud bays -- WITH at least one (3/4") EMT stub up and out for future circuits. (This is for residential SFH. )
> 
> Old work, really old work, it's another thing all together.
> 
> ...


I have family from Placerville 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

That's another obstacle I always hit. No one I know ever knows what the tools or even the building material parts are are called on the job site or even at the electrical wholesaler stores. 

An example, guys know how and when to use a certain connector, but they don't know the part number or what you would call it if you had to send someone to go and order a box of them in. You're usually in trouble if you don't have an old empty box with the label on it to take with you to the clerk get more so they know what they are looking for.

Like today I finally figured out the proper name for borescope. I don't know anyone who has one, so it's hard to explain what you are looking for to the clerk at the desk, and I know they are out there on the market. 

It's harder now since a lot of the wholesalers don't have catalogs any more. They say to check their website to see the inventory, and then when you go there they don't have pictures for most items, and they don't have any product description. It's usually just a product code, so you don't even know what you are looking at.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

zac said:


> I have family from Placerville
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I belive it's surname is hang town? 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

746 Watts said:


> That's another obstacle I always hit. No one I know ever knows what the tools or even the building material parts are are called on the job site or even at the electrical wholesaler stores.
> 
> An example, guys know how and when to use a certain connector, but they don't know the part number or what you would call it if you had to send someone to go and order a box of them in. You're usually in trouble if you don't have an old empty box with the label on it to take with you to the clerk get more so they know what they are looking for.
> 
> ...



Well, I told them guys to use Squarespace, but do they listen to me???


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> ADI is your buddy. Shop there.


I'll check them out. Thanks!


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

746 Watts said:


> That's another obstacle I always hit. No one I know ever knows what the tools or even the building material parts are are called on the job site or even at the electrical wholesaler stores.
> 
> An example, guys know how and when to use a certain connector, but they don't know the part number or what you would call it if you had to send someone to go and order a box of them in. You're usually in trouble if you don't have an old empty box with the label on it to take with you to the clerk get more so they know what they are looking for.
> 
> ...


Get some catalogs man! Order all online and paper form you can. Get good with google, amazon etc... and start spamming the forums with every little thought or question you have!


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

One of the main motivators for me doing work without drywall damage, is that I'm simply not very good at drywall repair. At this point, I've only done drywall work on my own house, and not anyone else's, and it I'm not good enough at it to do it on anyone else's place.

I need to work on both areas to get better at avoiding damage to drywall, and to get better at repairing it when I do need to cut in to it.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Majewski said:


> Here's the thing I mentioned in the earlier post.
> http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/96/Panel-Buddy-Knockout-Kit



It looks like a bent screwdriver. 

What's been your experience ?


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

99cents said:


> I'm going to ignore your trolling, Hack, and explain a few things:
> 
> You're going to attack me for this idea like you have before but, if he plans on replacing flooring, he can possibly cut out subfloor and run new wiring through the floor.


:thumbup: I've actually done that (cut out subfloor). Client and GC were quite impressed with that idea. Job took about an hour.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

daveEM said:


> :thumbup: I've actually done that (cut out subfloor). Client and GC were quite impressed with that idea. Job took about an hour.


Here's the trick: It's often worth it to talk to the client about future plans. He may want to do some wiring now but is it worth it to wait until he is doing other work? If he plans on painting then drywall surgery is less of an issue. If he plans on new flooring, then that opens up possibilities. If he plans on re-siding, maybe that can solve some issues.

I have had jobs where the client has saved up various odd jobs and has hired me to do the wiring, some patch and paint and finishing carpentry (which I subbed out).


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

746 Watts said:


> Yes, lots of good information to think about! Wish I would have asked years ago. I never thought to look online for a electrician discussion forum, because I thought I could get all the info I needed from the guys I work with. But the reality is, a lot of guys are not interested in explaining the trade. Also, a lot of guys don't have the answers due to lack of experience or because they avoid all the difficult parts of the trade like troubleshooting service calls and they stick with the easy new construction jobs.
> 
> To deliver better work, I'm going to have to get some more practice for sure, and switch over to some different tools. Like get proper plastic rods, chain, magnets, retrievers, flex bit, and probably a borescope.
> 
> A couple years ago I was worried about the legality of drilling through fire block, because in some places around North America you have to plug up the fire stop. So, I chickened out from drilling it, returned the flex bit to the store, and ran the cable outside the house. Then talking to experienced J-men I found out it is acceptable and normal practice to drill through it. So, lesson learned, next time I drilled through it. Build up and develop the knowledge over time and then put it to use the next time.


It's worth it to search previous threads. There's a ton of information here. Also, the Canadian Electrical Code Forum is where we discuss Canadian stuff, not just code.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

746 Watts said:


> I figure it should be simple enough to drill from the attic above the panel, or the crawl space below the panel and then feed a fish in to the knocked out hole to pull the cable through.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA



> I was thinking the hardest part might be trying to get a connector on to the cable in the hole from the inside. Maybe a plastic connector would still be able to pinch fit in from the inside after the cable is pulled in.


HERE


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

OK 746, check out *THIS* post. When you get into one of these situations, think of past experiences. This is just a tool list that our company runs with and has had great success with.

As for the vapour barrier problem. Buy some damn spray foam (low expansion) so Hack and 99 can hug and make up.:jester: If either of them did ICF homes, that's the recommended way to achieve a vapour barrier- just like the spray in foam insulation- hint, you don't need vapour barrier when doing one of them- it's actually in the building code. 

The holes in a rework box are usually big enough to fit one of the straws that com with the can in the back of the box. Wait to dry and if there is any holes you had to make in the baseboard you can fill them in as well.

Once you get used to thinking outside the (breaker) box, you'll do fine.:thumbsup:


And stop giving our secret Canadian codes like CCT away to those pesky yankies, soon they will think they can do electrical in our igloos.:shifty:


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

I picked up a Magnepull suit case kit, fish rod kit, chains, stud ball, endoscope, proper electrical pull string, flex bit, bumper balls, driller's dust bowl, shop vac, and a bunch of other misc. things to make life easier. Rack-A-Tiers catalogue has lots of good stuff in there. So far have been useful add-ons. Thanks for the suggestions 

The person that wanted my help from my original post turned out was just trying to feel out the job without me actually looking at it, and ended up getting a friend of a friend to do it which they said was an electrician. Turns out it would have been easy anyway. They said the drywall wasn't up.

Next word of mouth side job, someone wants a guy to put a switch or receptacle back in the wall for them for a case of beer. 

All the time I hear people looking for a guy that will work for peanuts. Has that always been the way the trade has been? People trying to barter or pay out a lot less than a reasonable rate? 

The only reason why I may consider it is because I heard she really doesn't have much money and it would help her out. Sometimes a job might take five minutes if routine, but sometimes its messed up when you actually look at it, and be there all night. 

I'm sure most of the cheapskates out there know the call out rate from phoning around, and know about the permits involved, etc and then offer a low ball offer hoping to find some sucker.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Yes there are tons of sharks looking to take a bite out of you. You have to be around long enough to learn how to see and avoid those. Sooner or later you notice which one is a job you can do in 5 minutes and they "need" and are broke vs the scum looking to screw you. Such is life.

Did you go broke after buying all those toys?


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## 746 Watts (Nov 13, 2016)

Yeah, it was a pretty expensive shopping spree! I usually go all out once every year or two to add on to the tool inventory. Kind of hit and miss for what gets used, and what just sits around. Over all it pays itself off in the end.

I was tempted to get the Magnespot, but I think I could probably use my Fluke tone generator and leave it near the place that a hole needs drilling, and then go to the attic or which ever place I'm at with no reference point with the probe wand to find the tone. Don't know why I never thought of that before.


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