# quiting i.b.e.w



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I would talk to my BA.


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

dukester said:


> third year apprentice,Been out of work for over a year and just can't afford to stay out of work anymore. Was wondering if i quit can i join another local down the road.


What makes you think the local down the road is going to keep you busy?

I'd say quit.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

the economy might be better


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Can you stay in school and get employment elsewhere?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Duplicate???


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

I tried that and it's just not working out. Just had a baby and have a toddler bills through the roof and a training director that don't understand the effects of being out of work for over a year. good on it all...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

dukester said:


> I tried that and it's just not working out. Just had a baby and have a toddler bills through the roof and a training director that don't understand the effects of being out of work for over a year. good on it all...



That's a lot to handle.

So what does this BA expect you do?
Sit around and collect dust while your bills pile up?

Personally, I would try and get some type of employment and still goto school.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

One thing you need to remember is that you need to take care of your family FIRST rather union or nonunion.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

exactly, I work where i can find work until things get better 4 to 5 years and rejoin as a journeyman.. so if things slow up..... at least i would be able to travel


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Would your family stay there? Are you going to travel to work?


There has to be some options with your local, I TRUELY hope the BA is not that hard assed?


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

I can't even travel now if i rejoin as a journeyman i would be able to travel when times are slow in the local


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dukester said:


> I can't even travel now if i rejoin as a journeyman i would be able to travel when times are slow in the local


 I confused now.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

they don't allow apprentice to travel.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

even if i could where would you go for work. I don't know everyone is in the same boat.. i have to take what i could get until this recession is over and the hall is'nt getting nothing


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

dukester said:


> third year apprentic,....


From the _OTHER_ thread....[can a mod please merge ?????]..



dukester said:


> .. already have my j mans card


If you have a JW card...what's stopping you?
I don't understand how you can have a JW card and still be bound by the JATC. Sure it's not IW status?



SO what is it?
Apprentice
IW
JW

???


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

jatc is five years long depending on what city you live in the city allows you to take the jw test if you have the years of experence and school combinedI did.. But that don't make the five years go any faster


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

nothing stopping me!! i just wanted to pick the brains of some of these old timers about how to leave now and then down the road rejoin.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

dukester said:


> they don't allow apprentice to travel.


Talk to your BA apprentices can travel with BA to BA approval.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

dukester said:


> jatc is five years long depending on what city you live in the city allows you to take the jw test if you have the years of experence and school combinedI did.. But that don't make the five years go any faster


 I completely understand that.

The question is:

What is your status?
App....IW....JW?

You say you have a JW card, but are 3 yrd year app...which leads me to believe you have IW status.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

whats a iw


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

whats a IW


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

dukester said:


> whats a iw


An Intermediate Wireman....it's the status an App. has when they have completed the 5yr app in the accelerated 3 yr plan. 
They are still required to take classes...but they can now take JW classes [cable splicer, welder, etc]. Over the course of these 2 years a certain amount of credits must be obtained to become a JW.
Effectively cramming more knowledge into one's head over the 5yr period of time.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

How the hell does an apprentice stay out of work over a year??

Mostly its a couple weeks tops. You need to move on, should have moved on long ago.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

I can no longer afford to screw around with the jatc and classes been doing for over a year with no income .. Just had a baby need a fulltime job and paycheck. no more classes this or that no more


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> You need to move on, should have moved on long ago.


 I second that.:thumbsup:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> How the hell does an apprentice stay out of work over a year??


Good question.
There is no good reason for an apprentice to be out of work.

I'm still at a loss whether the OP is an App., IW, or JW.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I second that.:thumbsup:


 I triple that. After a couple of weeks or after I finished all my pending jobs on my house I would have been hitting the pavement. I personally couldnt stand the thought of my wife being the only bread winner...!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Celtic said:


> I'm still at a loss whether the OP is an App., IW, or JW.


 Me too. At first I thought he was a apprentice,but he said he had his journeyman card which leads to think he is a JW.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Me too. At first I thought he was a apprentice,but he said he had his journeyman card which leads to think he is a JW.


I think I'm starting to smell a little BS :whistling2:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Celtic said:


> I think I'm starting to smell a little BS :whistling2:


 You just might be right.:whistling2:


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

You signed a contract when you started, quitting during that contract will really damage any chance to work for a signatory contractor in the future. Find a nonelectrical job until the economy gets better.
I really dont understand how an apprentice can be out of work for over a year. Also my JATC frowns on apprentices getting their license(in California you are supposed to have a state license to work as a JW) before they finish school


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I think what he's saying is, IBEW-wise he's a 3rd year apprentice inside wireman, but to the State of Florida he's a JW.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I Don't buy his story.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

I don,t know whats so hard to understand. I'm a apprentice and I was laid off last july had two short calls and that it have been collecting unemployment, been living off of my savings, so my girl is,nt the bread winner you d...head... while I've been off I sat for my city jmans test... passed it and that has no effect on my schooling... 40 something appentices out just at my local... I not sure where you've been during this recession but florida was hit very hard go to the ibew website look at the construction board the entire country has a ton of apprentice and jmans out of work... I hung in there as long as i could but just need to earn money now


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

russian i kept my side of the agreement by going to school on time with the right books and passing all my tests the local did'nt keep there side of the agreement by keeping me working... you can't ask anyone to go to school and not have any work for them ... to me they failed me


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dukester said:


> to me they failed me


 Thats what I see. Find you a job twisting wirenuts somewhere and go with it.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

lawnguylandsparky got it right!!!


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

william 1978 i was wonder if you had ever heard of someone rejoining the ibew after quiting


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

dukester said:


> third year apprentice,Been out of work for over a year and just can't afford to stay out of work anymore. Was wondering if i quit can i join another local down the road.


You can request an "Honorary Withdrawl" from the IBEW. You will need to present your request to the board. That will allow you to re-enter the union at any time in the future, if you do so with your same local you don't have to pay anything to get back in, if it is another local there is a chagre to re-enter.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

I think what hes trying to say is he's got his ELECTRICAL liscense from taking the city/NEC code book test. You don't get a journeyman's card until you're 5 years are up. 

It would also be wise to request a discharge from the IBEW. If you don't that contract you signed will be breached and you will just have another bill of around $10,000 to pay back for that schooling you recieved. 

Times are tough right now, but it's one of those things you should've took into consideration before you signed that contract. I know it sounds like I'm being insensitive but if you get things sugar coated you'll never realize what kind of $hit your knee deep into.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

you don't know what your talking about. Just worry about surfing in hawaii....Journeymans cards have nothing to do with five years schooling with the jatc.. you are from chatanogga, If that city issues jmans cards you just apply to the city with your documentation and they administer it the ibew or jatc doesn't test you


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Maybe the military would be a good choice for you my man.


I imagine college grads do okay down there, hell, up here, the blue-collar do better than the college grads. We've got college grads beating down the doors at the training center trying to get into the apprenticeship. We've got more than our fair share of artistes, fruits, vets, and hillbillies.


Have you tried slangin the yeaho to make ends meet? They make lots of TV shows about that set down in Flourida. Easy money.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

i know a few apprentices that are slingin the yeaho to supplement there unemployment... i like a honest day work for a honest day pay... no military I'm going to the open shops simply because there are no jos with the ibew right now.. I'm friends with this journeyman just got laid off he is 250 on book 1 he has two young kids.. I'm sure it will turn around next year or the year after..... but you have to earn some kind of money until then


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

one day pulling 600's the college boys will be running for the door


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dukester said:


> william 1978 i was wonder if you had ever heard of someone rejoining the ibew after quiting


 I have seen it several times in Local 379.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dukester said:


> one day pulling 600's the college boys will be running for the door


 You got that right.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

thanks i appreciate the info


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

dukester said:


> you don't know what your talking about. Just worry about surfing in hawaii....Journeymans cards have nothing to do with five years schooling with the jatc.. you are from chatanogga, If that city issues jmans cards you just apply to the city with your documentation and they administer it the ibew or jatc doesn't test you


 
Around here (in 'chatanogga') you take your code test and IF you pass you pay 20 bucks for a liscense. Now CITY WISE that makes you a journeyman BUT IBEW WISE that makes you....hmm how do they put it...still a [email protected]


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

thats what i said .


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

dukester said:


> thats what i said .


I couldn't understand you're broken sentences.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

there called fragmented sentences


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Duke...thanks for clearing up the app/JW confusion.


Like I said before:


Celtic said:


> Personally, I would try and get some type of employment and still goto school.


The quick money is usually in food service industry....not the BK MickeyD bong hitting club....the other places where people leave a tip.
Got a bartender's license....everyone leaves a tip.


Anything NOT trade related.
It's important to have some set of skills other than slinging wire.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

dukester said:


> there called fragmented sentences dip ****


I had posted something previously but I decided to delete and not continue something as pointless as a war of words on a message board. Name calling included.

:no:


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

thanks


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

dukester said:


> russian i kept my side of the agreement by going to school on time with the right books and passing all my tests the local did'nt keep there side of the agreement by keeping me working... you can't ask anyone to go to school and not have any work for them ... to me they failed me


You signed an agreement to be an IBEW apprentice for a set amount of time. Quitting is in direct violation and will ruin your chances at returning. I'm pretty sure there is nothing in that agreement that states the JATC will keep you employed for 5 years. I love the mentality that the IBEW is only good when times are good:whistling2:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RUSSIAN said:


> I love the mentality that the IBEW is only good when times are good:whistling2:


 The way I see it is good when times are good and bad aslong as they keep me working 40hrs a week anything less I'm gone.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Every time I read this thread's title, I mistakenly read it as "Quilting the IBEW". I think to myself, I've never really seen an IBEW quilt. That would be novel, so I Googled it. Local 1 has a ladies auxillary that makes IBEW quilts. :laughing:

http://www.ibewlocal1.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=49


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

How many are going to buy Marc?:laughing:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Every time I read this thread's title, I mistakenly read it as "Quilting the IBEW". I think to myself, I've never really seen an IBEW quilt. That would be novel, so I Googled it. Local 1 has a ladies auxillary that makes IBEW quilts. :laughing:
> 
> http://www.ibewlocal1.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=49


I couldn't sleep on anything less.
Especially at work. :laughing:


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Celtic said:


> I completely understand that.
> 
> The question is:
> 
> ...


I understand you are an apprentice , but have the hours and education to take the city test , which is what you have done. Good for you. Bypass the training director and go talk to the president or BA of your Local or even both. Please do this before you quit. Apprentices can travel as was said ba to ba. Explain your situation to the local. Good Luck, I feel for you. Tell the Local you will do what you have to do to take care of your family.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

retired 7373 said:


> I understand you are an apprentice , but have the hours and education to take the city test , which is what you have done. Good for you. Bypass the training director and go talk to the president or BA of your Local or even both. Please do this before you quit. Apprentices can travel as was said ba to ba. Explain your situation to the local. Good Luck, I feel for you. Tell the Local you will do what you have to do to take care of your family.


I agree, let the BA or President of your local know what is going on. Use the word "Brotherhood" often.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> I understand you are an apprentice , but have the hours and education to take the city test , which is what you have done. Good for you. Bypass the training director and go talk to the president or BA of your Local or even both. Please do this before you quit. Apprentices can travel as was said ba to ba. Explain your situation to the local. Good Luck, I feel for you. Tell the Local you will do what you have to do to take care of your family.


That's a good plan. Mention that even though you're going to school, without the OTJ experience it's not a complete learning experience. Might NOT want to stress the posession of your JW card too much...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> That's a good plan. Mention that even though you're going to school, without the OTJ experience it's not a complete learning experience. Might NOT want to stress the posession of your JW card too much...


 
Durn LGLS 3 times in a month we agree, we are becoming akin to twin sons of different mothers.


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## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

They recently started allowing apprentices in our local to travel to southern nevada if we needed to work. I don't know if anyone did it. If it were me I wouldn't have a problem working non union if I was getting that desperate.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

dukester said:


> I can no longer afford to screw around with the jatc and classes been doing for over a year with no income .. Just had a baby need a fulltime job and paycheck. no more classes this or that no more


Duke,

I don't know if I can shed anymore light on you issues. Talk to your BA and Organizer. They could have you travel or salt.

Not to offend, but why the hell would you have a baby when you're living off of your savings? Please wait on your next child till after you have your career established. It will be easier.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

knowshorts said:


> Not to offend, but why the hell would you have a baby when you're living off of your savings?


What else are you going to do with all that time on your hands?!?


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> What else are you going to do with all that time on your hands?!?



You'll never see me knockin' the humpin', just should have been smarter about it. I've seen too many mistakes ruin relationships. 

By mistakes I am not referring to children, I am referring to improper planning.


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

I got layed off a little over a month ago. They kept all the apprentices working, though!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> Duke,
> 
> I don't know if I can shed anymore light on you issues. Talk to your BA and Organizer. They could have you travel or* salt*.
> 
> .


 
Yeah become a SALT synonymous with TURD, piece of SH*T, crap on a stick, low life worthless bast*rd. Yeah that's the route to take.

I'd damn near do anything to support my family but being part of a salt program is where a REAL PERSON should draw the line.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

brian john said:


> Yeah become a SALT synonymous with TURD, piece of SH*T, crap on a stick, low life worthless bast*rd. Yeah that's the route to take.
> 
> I'd damn near do anything to support my family but being part of a salt program is where a REAL PERSON should draw the line.


Whats wrong with a salt?


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I got asked to salt when I got laid off...I said no. Salting is something that is completely against my morals. I was also treated like some stupid kid when I went into the union hall to inquire about my sub fund.


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## dukester (Jun 22, 2009)

whats a sub fund


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

when you get laid off, the union will top off the unemployment benefits paid to you by the province. We get an extra $125.00 per week on top of benefits paid by the province. (I never did recieve my sub fund though). Just one huge run around on my part and no effort on theirs.

Sorry a little off topic...just venting a bit lol


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Don't quit, at the very least, finish your apprenticeship. Once you have a license, you can make a choice. Don't throw away what you have earned.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Whats wrong with a salt?
> __________________
> I fish, therefore I am


On fish salt is a must, at work it differentiates a working man from what I said turds and pieces of crap.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

brian john said:


> On fish salt is a must, at work it differentiates a working man from what I said turds and pieces of crap.


Still what is wrong with working as a salt? If we have no work and a non-union needs men, why not? You take a huge pay cut but it pays the bills.:001_huh:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

brian john said:


> Yeah become a SALT synonymous with TURD, piece of SH*T, crap on a stick, low life worthless bast*rd. Yeah that's the route to take.
> 
> I'd damn near do anything to support my family but being part of a salt program is where a REAL PERSON should draw the line.


In some locals, they let apprentices "salt". All it means is they are allowed to work non-union. They are to do nothing but observe and report. There is no communication to the non-union guys about how great the union is. The apprentices just go to work and that's it.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I very enlightened to work non-union. Both times I "salted" it was due to no regular work and they hired me knowing that I was union. One time a contractor showed up to a power plant and the chief of the electrical department asked to see licensees; needless to say they did not have the correct journeyman to helper ratio as required by Maine state law. Some of the electricians had helper licenses for over 10 years. They depended on the foreman giving very detail instructions; they were good “hands” but had very limited electrical knowledge. My biggest surprise was the amount of personnel tools that some guys brought with them, one guy had his own gang box filled with hand benders, chain falls, every wrench you can imagine, a sawzall, porta band, ratchet threader. 
The next time a long time friend and fishing partner ask me to help on a project they were working on, the hall said “fine, you have to put beans on the table“. I was working for less than half my normal wages but sill making more than their long time employees.
These guys were good electricians, did a professional job and were proud of the work they did. The breaks and lunch seamed a little long and it was a very relaxed, nice change from the “hurry up, we are paying you guys top dollar, we need to get our moneys worth“, that I see on a typical job.


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## Thomps (Nov 27, 2008)

drsparky - when you mentioned journeyman to helper ratio, how does that system work in Maine?

Is the ratio enforced as per project, or is it enforced via payroll?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Read the following

http://www.fklaborlaw.com/union-salt-objectives.html


in the _*FEW*_ cases I have know up, the salters damaged equipment, caused problems and were general jerks the likes of which had they been sent to my firm I might have had to knee cap them. They are trying (IN SOME CASES) to destroy or damage) a legitimate firm.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

brian john said:


> Read the following
> 
> http://www.fklaborlaw.com/union-salt-objectives.html
> 
> ...


Brian, I vote your link as the most unbalanced website known to mankind. :laughing:


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## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

I am not going to get into the whole Union/Non Union discussion, as I have never worked for a Union nor do I plan to, just a personal choice. 
I will just say, Times are tough, you do what you have to for your family. If that means leaving the Union due to lack of work, then do it. There are companies here in Florida that are working new jobs every week.



LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Brian, I vote your link as the most unbalanced website known to mankind. :laughing:


I Nominate this one.
http://www.barackobama.com/


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Brian, I vote your link as the most unbalanced website known to mankind. :laughing:


Nobody said it HAD to be fair and balanced BUT
You deny salting as noted does not happen?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Thomps said:


> drsparky - when you mentioned journeyman to helper ratio, how does that system work in Maine?
> 
> Is the ratio enforced as per project, or is it enforced via payroll?


Per project. Helpers need supervision on site.:thumbsup:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

brian john said:


> Nobody said it HAD to be fair and balanced BUT
> You deny salting as noted does not happen?


If someone was sent to damage something that would violate so many federal laws the would prosecute under the RICO statutes, no I do not think that is common or probably ever happened. You are bringing up some serious charges. If the goal is to organize why would they want to damage anyone? Brother you really need to take the code of excellence and COMET course. This is 2009 not 1939.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Brother you really need to take the code of excellence and COMET course. This is 2009 not 1939.


OP is an apprentice. If he talks to his hall, they might let him salt. They might tell him a good job to go to. They might even tell him to find something himself.

BJ had a bad experience with salts and I sympathize. If only (1) 3rd year showed up, you can easily keep an eye on him. Typically a 3rd year is a pretty good value. The problem is when you get a bunch of salts on one job. I have witnessed guys with their COE and COMET certificates on the front seat of their trucks intentially sabotaging non-union projects and that is a disgrace. 

If I needed a hand, I would gladly hire an out of work union apprentice, or even a journeyman or two. If I needed 10 guys, there aint no way in hell, I would take 10 salts off the bench.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

brian john said:


> Nobody said it HAD to be fair and balanced BUT
> You deny salting as noted does not happen?


I will neither confirm nor deny it. :whistling2:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

drsparky said:


> If someone was sent to damage something that would violate so many federal laws the would prosecute under the RICO statutes, no I do not think that is common or probably ever happened. You are bringing up some serious charges. If the goal is to organize why would they want to damage anyone? Brother you really need to take the code of excellence and COMET course. This is 2009 not 1939.


Uh... yea what he said. 

I truth, I could envision a brother salt taking matters into his own hands thinking he was doing the local good by messing with the targets work. It's probably happened, but definately not sanctioned by the local.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> BJ had a bad experience with salts and I sympathize. .



I did not have a bad experience with salts, but some of my customers did, giving them a bad taste for the union. Which could have had an impact on me if it wasn't for my charming personality, superior knowledge and winning ways.:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

brian john said:


> I did not have a bad experience with salts, but some of my customers did, giving them a bad taste for the union. Which could have had an impact on me if it wasn't for my charming personality, superior knowledge and winning ways.:laughing:



With all that has been said to the OP. I would do what I had to do to make a living BUT at all cost I would avoid losing the apprenticeship and your standing in the IBEW. If you plan to work for 30-40 years, the retirement alone is worth all you can do to stay in, much less the (more than likely) higher pay and benefits.


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## Thomps (Nov 27, 2008)

drsparky said:


> Per project. Helpers need supervision on site.:thumbsup:


 
yes, I know thanks. 

I ask because here, the ministry of Labour doesn't enforce ratios on a per projects basis. Ratios are imposed across the company as a whole.


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