# Life Changing Decision



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

The SNJATC of Southern Nevada decided to accept the transfers of my wife and I into their program. This means know more mold allergies which almost killed us a few years back. It means almost double the money we are making in FL on straight time. Way better conditions, training etc. This is the difference between struggling and achieving our dreams along with health. Truly one of the best days of our lives. Now if we can just get you guys to consider Obama.


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

You Had One Miracle, Don't Push Your Luck.


----------



## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> You Had One Miracle, Don't Push Your Luck.


:laughing:

Congrats though!


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

THERE IS NO Surf in Neveda.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

brian john said:


> THERE IS NO Surf in Neveda.


Yeah, but there is a really big clear lake with millions of striped bass I can spear while high on nitrox! I've read striped bass are very good eating, never had them though. Wonder how they compare to grouper, snapper, redfish, speckled trout, flounder, and all the other FL fishes that I've eaten. Anyone? How about the eating quality of Rainbow Trout? Can't spear them in Nevada but you can in a bunch of Utah lakes.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

surfbh said:


> Now if we can just get you guys to consider Obama.


Congrats on your career move...

Consider Obama... yeaahh....
I consider Obama a threat to my personal freedoms and personal security, as I sit here clinging to my guns and religion.
Consider all the times Nobama has voted against gun rights, consider the endorsement of him by the Brady Campaign, consider how he wanted to extend the Clinton Gun ban-Federal Assault Weapons Ban (that NY state enacted into state law) - thanks Bill , and I am considering all the new laws, policies, and bans that Obama would push for. 

There are some reasons that I would consider voting for him as President of the United States. Unfortunately, there are too many more reasons that I cannot. The above reasons are the dealbreakers. And New York will go Democrat anyway, so I can vote for McCain, knowing that he won't win NY anyway. So what's the point? There are points about McCain that I don't like also. If we could vote on the best points of each of them... or just vote to get 2 new candidates. What if I don't like either of them? 

Nobama. No McCain.
Bring back Huckabee!!

surfbh: you shouldn't have put the political comment in your post. I can see this thread spiraling in to the toilet bowl, probably getting locked out on the 2nd or 3rd page, lol. Then again, maybe it will be a long and pleasant discussion about fishing.
Musky, trout, steelhead, large-mouth bass here in western NY Lake Erie and Chautauqua Lake.


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> Congrats on your career move...
> 
> Consider Obama... yeaahh....
> I consider Obama a threat to my personal freedoms and personal security, as I sit here clinging to my guns and religion.
> ...


 
Just think, he could be our first muslim president, on second thought, screw that.


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

He's not muslim, his name is Barry! Ohh wait it is Barrack, or is it? Who the hell is this guy?!?

Here are some interesting quotes:
-"I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training." His own VP Joe Biden

-"I mean when is the last time we elected a president based on one year of service in the senate before he started running? In theory, we could find someone who is a gifted television commentator and let them run. They'd only have one year less experience in national politics." Bill Clinton


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

Well it really doesn not matter what either of you two think since both of your states are going to Obama anyways. Maybe one day you two will get a clue, but I'm not holding my breath! :laughing:


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

No offense to you, surfbh, I just do not believe that Senator Obama is the person that I want as our next president.
... or the one after the next
... or the one after the one after the next...


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Just for fun surfbh, who is the real barry obama? Listen to the exact words he uses.
1. He supports "sportsman's" rights when it comes to guns, not handguns which he voted to ban.
2. He'll "look into drilling" to get the muslim monkey oil producers out of our economy.
3. He didn't know who rev wright, bill ayers, louis farakhan and tony rezko were.
4. He wants to spread MY wealth around! When was the last time you got a job from a poor person?

Kill terrorist, drill for oil and God bless America.


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

surfbh said:


> Well it really doesn not matter what either of you two think since both of your states are going to Obama anyways. Maybe one day you two will get a clue, but I'm not holding my breath! :laughing:


Oh come on now, what would it take toget you to hold your breath?

What is it you seem to think is good about obama?

What makes him qualified to run for president?

What makes him qualified to be president?

He voted "present" more often than yes or no as a senetor, what will he do if he gets elected say "I'm not working" on days he needs to make a decision?


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

surfbh said:


> Now if we can just get you guys to consider Obama.


NOT NO BUT HELL NO:no:!!!!!!!!!!!!! watch this video and tell me that he isn't muslim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

Look at all the "Joe the Electricians" seeing the world how they want to instead of how it actually is. I'm ashamed to be in the IBEW with you guys for you certainly are not my brothers! What really sucks is that all of you will get to benefit from Obama's energy policies while you certainly should not.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

This thread will be locked soon....

~Matt


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Here is another Email I got that I think everybody should read.






*Conversation: *Huntley Brown -- Why As a Black Man, myself, I Can't Vote for Obama
*Subject: *Huntley Brown -- Why I Can't Vote for Obama

I thought you might find the following article from snopes.com interesting: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/huntleybrown.asp


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

surfbh said:


> Look at all the "Joe the Electricians" seeing the world how they want to instead of how it actually is. I'm ashamed to be in the IBEW with you guys for you certainly are not my brothers! What really sucks is that all of you will get to benefit from Obama's energy policies while you certainly should not.


So surf as an American you are against you fellow electricians voting what they feel is right. Because you are so much smarter than the rest of us. One more reason many not to vote for the candidate of your choice. 
This is a great country and we will do better under either candidate BUT we would do better under a BETTER CONGRESS. Everyone blames The President, when the SH*t hits the fan, yet Congress has a lower rating and is the root of many of our problems. Vote whoever is in out.

I do have a question why do the likes of the Hollywood self appointed "know what is best for us" always swear if a Republican is elected they will leave for Canada or France, but when the time comes these swine remain?

As for Obama's energy policy you do not know what it will bring or not bring. Where was his policy in the last 2 years oh it was non-existent as he was NEVER IN CONGRESS. His plan to not drill because drilling for oil is like having sex for kids it doesn't work. Oh wait that makes no sense.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

"I'm ashamed to be in the IBEW with you guys for you certainly are not my brothers!"

It is this type of thinking for the reason that all most all locals can not get 5% of their membership to attend union meetings. As to a so called "green energy" policy and the resulting jobs, good luck. These systems are so expensive and unreliable that only with government subsidies can they exist. There is very little residential demand for it due to intial cost. That means more taxes will have to collected to pay for this nonsense, while we need no new taxes to drill for more of our own oil. barry is dead set against anymore drilling. Keep taxing the big companies out of existence and all of the energy equipment will all be made over seas. Here is the most important thing to remember, business's don't pay taxes, they collect them from the consumer. As a contractor I don't pay a cent of taxes that I don't get back from my prices to the customer.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

To the two contractors who respond to my thread, Obama may cost you more $$ in the beginning,so I see your skepticism. As for congress, it was Republican controlled till 06 and it's not like Bush has adhered to the Constitution or the Geneva Convention or any other thing that gets in his way. The only thing that will make this country great again is the same that made it great before. That is unionization, so people can afford to buy American and laws to make it so companies employ Americans in America. Trade agreements need to be repealed and incentives need to be given for this to occur. Healthcare needs to be fixed and Illegals need to be stopped. That is how we will be great again!


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Worn Kliens:

You are one of the EVIL one's that Obama wants to punish. I have always asked where were these "give the money to the less fortunate ones" when I went without insurance (and my employees had it) I did not take a pay check for 6 weeks at a time, I leveraged my house to buy equipment and I drove a used station wagon as I put my men in new vehicles.

And lets see those that WORK for their money are evil, yet Obama and Clinton for that matter NEVER had a job in the real world yet they are millionaires? Obama from writing books WHO buys these books? In many instances these books are bought by the truck load by local Dem organizations.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

brian john said:


> Worn Kliens:
> 
> You are one of the EVIL one's that Obama wants to punish. I have always asked where were these "give the money to the less fortunate ones" when I went without insurance (and my employees had it) I did not take a pay check for 6 weeks at a time, I leveraged my house to buy equipment and I drove a used station wagon as I put my men in new vehicles.
> 
> And lets see those that WORK for their money are evil, yet Obama and Clinton for that matter NEVER had a job in the real world yet they are millionaires? Obama from writing books WHO buys these books? In many instances these books are bought by the truck load by local Dem organizations.


 Right on.:thumbsup:


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Yes, it is true, I am one of those evil ones. There is just something about handing over my hard earned money to some lazy sob that wants something for nothing. I took the risks and sometimes worked for next to nothing. There is something wrong when a political party punishes success and rewards failure. Carl Marx is smiling from his grave.

Surfbh; your plan might have had a chance about 100 years ago. You should study what was going on here in the United States in the 1920's and 1930's. You are witness to the death of this business model right now. American manufacturing for the most part left years ago and GM, Ford and Chrysler are hours away from bankruptcy due in large part to unfunded union contract obligations. Foriegn competition is not going away anytime soon and since we do not have the manufacturing capabilities that we had 50 years ago we rely on imports. Therefore protectionism and isolationism is not an option. With these facts in mind there is no one who is going to put up capitol to start a manufacturing plant with union labor in America. If the company is lucky enough to succeed, barry's tax plan will soon kill it. But look on the bright side, barry could sell off the assets of the company and send a check to those who have never built anything, never took a risk but made a career out of being an underacheiver. Speaking of the constitution, where does it say anything about health care being the responsibility of the government? No one has a "right" to health care, food or housing at the expense of someone else. As an American you have the "right" to succeed in whatever you choose to do. You also have the right to buy your own health care, food and housing.
Just evil.


----------



## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

So happy to hear that you and your wife will have a better future ! Hope that if your buying a house in that area that the economy won't play a part in it .

I refuse to get into a debate on politics....most of the people have their minds made up , and everyone tries to make you see what is wrong with your decision . Although I do not support your idea of voting Democrat because we are Union......I support the fact that you have a right to vote on what You think is best . As everyone has said here.....I wish I could take the points of both parties , mash them together into what the country really needs .

Congrats again , and I hope you don't hit the same walls in Nevada as you did in Florida !


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

Thanks Unionwirewoman! At almost double the pay here in Las Vegas, whatever walls we may run into will be easier to deal with when we can more than pay our bills. 

I don't think that you should always vote Democrat if you are union, but if you want this country to have a chance to be GREAT again then the choice is clear this time around. A vote for Obama is a vote for more union construction jobs; more union jobs period, while at the same time getting away from our energy problems. And if we get 60 seats in the Senate then the Employee Free Choice Act will be passed for sure guaranteeing that unions will grow once again. Hell, with the passage of the act Walmart could even unionize, I know they will be approached to do so.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Surfbh, why would you want to take away the right of a man/woman to be able to vote in private about joining a union? And think about this: 90% of the working folks in this country do not belong to a union and most of them would not support you during a strike, nor would they change their shopping habits because of a picket line. These same folks save hundreds of dollars a year shopping at wal mart which means a lot to them. It is the difference between buying gifts for their kids or not buying. Now what do you think will be the reaction in this country when wal mart is organized and they have to raise their prices overnight? Do you think they, the shoppers, would just take it or would they react by voting out of office every congressman and senator that voted for the free choice act? The trouble with the free choice act is it is a myopic approach to a problem that the unions had enough money to buy. I think it would be wise to look at the long term affect of taking away the right to a secret ballot.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

One of the real union issues is perception by the general population.
Few non-union workers support anything unions do, strikes, picket lines, SALTING. All of which in today's market place are frowned on. The unions need to wake up and smell the roses before the winter cold kills them completly. A change of tactics starting with the name calling.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

brian john said:


> Worn Kliens:
> 
> You are one of the EVIL one's that Obama wants to punish. I have always asked where were these "give the money to the less fortunate ones" when I went without insurance (and my employees had it) I did not take a pay check for 6 weeks at a time, I leveraged my house to buy equipment and I drove a used station wagon as I put my men in new vehicles.
> 
> And lets see those that WORK for their money are evil, yet Obama and Clinton for that matter NEVER had a job in the real world yet they are millionaires? Obama from writing books WHO buys these books? In many instances these books are bought by the truck load by local Dem organizations.


You may not have heard about this, but many old friends down around the triangle area tell me obama has been getting monies from the middle east, what better a money laundering scheme than buying books? The kind that never really get shipped. It will all get out eventually.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

surfbh said:


> Look at all the "Joe the Electricians" seeing the world how they want to instead of how it actually is. I'm ashamed to be in the IBEW with you guys for you certainly are not my brothers! What really sucks is that all of you will get to benefit from Obama's energy policies while you certainly should not.


 
I notice for such a smart guy you havent answered one question random asked.


----------



## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> One of the real union issues is perception by the general population.
> Few non-union workers support anything unions do, strikes, picket lines, SALTING. All of which in today's market place are frowned on. The unions need to wake up and smell the roses before the winter cold kills them completly. A change of tactics starting with the name calling.


I guess I'll have to stick my neck out here and say what I have to say about Unions ( don't beat me over the head too badly ) .

To those who are non-Union...I have to ask if you like Davis - Bacon wages , or prevailing wage jobs ? I can't imagine one single person who would turn down a job because it pays higher than regular scale . My second question is....where do you think these figures on wages come from ? I can tell you that it's not some random figure that just pop into someones head . They come from Union wages . This is a fact . Minimum wage is also based off of prevailing wage and calculated through some bs formula . My point is...you can say what you want about Unions....but those prevailing wage jobs sure look nice in your bank account . Just don't forget how that wage came about . I don't care if you never want to be Union.....just realize that some of the perks you enjoy came about because of the few who are Union .

As for name calling.....I agree . This is one of the reasons we have a bad name to this day . Things got way out of control years ago....and are still haunting us to this day . I don't agree with this behavior . It is hard to see people around here working for $10 an hour ( some non-union guys ) doing commercial though , and I have to wonder why anyone would .


----------



## fungku (Oct 17, 2008)

There are no unions here, and wages are good.


----------



## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

fungku said:


> There are no unions here, and wages are good.


I find it hard to believe that there are no Unions where you are unless you are out of country . I'm glad that wages are "good " in your area , most of the time that is not the case , especially when you are working minimum wage . Our hourly rate commercial Union is around $28 an hour . I don't have the specific rate because we just dropped on wage to keep our health insurance . Do you never work jobs that are prevailing wage or Davis-Bacon ?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Some thoughts, prevailing wage projects drive up the cost of a job, which increase your taxes and mine.


When the New Woodrow Wilson bridge was built the state of Maryland demanded it be prevailing wage the state of Virginia told Maryland that is fine you pick up the difference in cost, Maryland backed down.(so the story goes).

I believe the basic benefits unions offer are wonderful and should be offered by every company.

My only issue has ever has been, blind support of the democrats. I feel when you blindly follow you lose any edge you might gain by playing both parties. The name calling, which only lowers the status of the union members, and salting which is total crap. Sending union members into open shop companies to raise hell trying to get fired is pure BUNK. 100% union would screw us all as the demands and strikes would do for construction what the steel workers union did to American steel.

lastly surf mentioned jobs going overseas, I addressed this with WHO WANTS THOSE FACTORY JOBS? Hell we can't get apprentices to do the decent work we have, do you think those factories are going to have candidates for widget assembling from the crop of high schoolwers that are told colleg or the waste pile of construction. As for the under achievers assembling widgets or wait for more government programs to help the needy.

I feel the truly needy should get help, but when a woman at 22 has 5 kids and she is pregnant again SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE, when families have a car, a flat screen TV and food stamps? As a person that barely got out of high school I worked my tushie off for what I have, I have 3 kids in college and a 4th to go, I get no government assistance, no help I WORK FOR IT. It is possible.

Are times tough? yes and times going to get tougher? possibly, tough times might make us wake up and appreciate what we have. Lets hope we do not have to learn that way.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

fungku said:


> There are no unions here, and wages are good.


"Good" compared to what?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> "Good" compared to what?


Maybe able to pay all his bills, have some for toys, keep his family happy and have a little left over at the end of the month, of course that is till Obama takes over>


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> Surfbh, why would you want to take away the right of a man/woman to be able to vote in private about joining a union? And think about this: 90% of the working folks in this country do not belong to a union and most of them would not support you during a strike, nor would they change their shopping habits because of a picket line. These same folks save hundreds of dollars a year shopping at wal mart which means a lot to them. It is the difference between buying gifts for their kids or not buying. Now what do you think will be the reaction in this country when wal mart is organized and they have to raise their prices overnight? Do you think they, the shoppers, would just take it or would they react by voting out of office every congressman and senator that voted for the free choice act? The trouble with the free choice act is it is a myopic approach to a problem that the unions had enough money to buy. I think it would be wise to look at the long term affect of taking away the right to a secret ballot.


The current way of unionizing takes years and does not work very well thanks to management stall tactics, if you have not heard. As far as Wal-Mart organizing, probably will never happen, but it would be easier than bringing back the mom and pop's that Wal-Mart has destroyed.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

brian john said:


> One of the real union issues is perception by the general population.
> Few non-union workers support anything unions do, strikes, picket lines, SALTING. All of which in today's market place are frowned on. The unions need to wake up and smell the roses before the winter cold kills them completly. A change of tactics starting with the name calling.


There are plenty of people who would join unions IF they did not fear the retaliation from their bosses. By the way most IBEW locals have a no strike clause and many can't salt legally anymore. Unions have been destroyed by deregulation and the race to the bottom (for workers) that is pure capitalism.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Oh come on now, what would it take toget you to hold your breath?
> 
> What is it you seem to think is good about obama?
> 
> ...


I try not to hold my breath unless I'm either freedive spearfishing or someone let one rip!

Barack not being tainted with special interest money and his extremely high intelligence qualifies him to be our president. He does not flip-flop daily on his views like McCain. Of course he voted present, he has been campaigning for 2 years, what was he supposed to do.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

fungku said:


> There are no unions here, and wages are good.


But your benefits suck!


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

surfbh said:


> I try not to hold my breath unless I'm either freedive spearfishing or someone let one rip!
> 
> Barack not being tainted with special interest money and his extremely high intelligence qualifies him to be our president. He does not flip-flop daily on his views like McCain. Of course he voted present, he has been campaigning for 2 years, what was he supposed to do.


Surf both men are politicians one has experience the other doesn't, both FLIP FLOP, And in reality a politician should FLIP FLOP. They read the public and do their bidding. Barack has already say he is going to lower the tax increase from 250,000.00 to 200,000.00 soon to be 150,000.00


In reality if you think Obama is going to make massive improvements to organizing you and the locals that have thrown their money away on this man will be in for a SHOCK.

Ain't going to happen.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

brian john said:


> Some thoughts, prevailing wage projects drive up the cost of a job, which increase your taxes and mine.
> 
> 
> When the New Woodrow Wilson bridge was built the state of Maryland demanded it be prevailing wage the state of Virginia told Maryland that is fine you pick up the difference in cost, Maryland backed down.(so the story goes).
> ...


Prevailing wage jobs also put more $$ in a workers pocket which he could then use to buy American and stimulate the economy and if that money stays American it will more than offset your tax increase. As for who wants those factory jobs? Ask the millions in the mid-west whose factories went overseas and they lost EVERYTHING! For baby factories, something should be done for sure. Maybe we should start by closing the borders and kicking out the illegals, you know, the one's using the E.R. for everything which drives up everyone's healthcare costs.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

brian john said:


> Surf both men are politicians one has experience the other doesn't, both FLIP FLOP, And in reality a politician should FLIP FLOP. They read the public and do their bidding. Barack has already say he is going to lower the tax increase from 250,000.00 to 200,000.00 soon to be 150,000.00
> 
> 
> In reality if you think Obama is going to make massive improvements to organizing you and the locals that have thrown their money away on this man will be in for a SHOCK.
> ...


No he did not, he said you will not pay any more taxes if you make less than $250K. He also siad you will pay less if you make less than $200K. So between 200-250K, you'll pay the same as you do now. Seriously, change the channel from FOX. If we get 60 Senate seats and Obama is elected, this country will unionize faster than at any time in the last 40 years, period!


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

brian john said:


> Maybe able to pay all his bills, have some for toys, keep his family happy and have a little left over at the end of the month, of course that is till Obama takes over>


Just because Barack will cut money from programs which will affect your bottom line personally, does not make him a bad choice. Makes you selfish though! Wasted government $$ on B.S. programs in D.C. sure must help your biz in D.C. huh?


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Surfbh, did you not hear barry say he is going to let the bush tax cuts expire? That means an automatic tax increase for EVERY working man, not just those making 250k. Please do some research into what happened with the Wagner Act in the 1930's concerning card check and the so called employee free choice act. Businesses learned a very valuable lesson from it and it will never be repeated again, it caused a deeper depression and it lasted until about 1950. By the way, you might also want to read the first part of the IBEW constitution about "isms". Taking away the right to a secret ballot and having an "organizer" shove a card in your face is pretty darn close to facism. You think NAFTA caused a loss of jobs, just wait till you see the true effects of card check organizing. Zogby poll from yesterday reports that just 57% of union households plan to vote for barry.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> Surfbh, did you not hear barry say he is going to let the bush tax cuts expire? That means an automatic tax increase for EVERY working man, not just those making 250k. Please do some research into what happened with the Wagner Act in the 1930's concerning card check and the so called employee free choice act. Businesses learned a very valuable lesson from it and it will never be repeated again, it caused a deeper depression and it lasted until about 1950. By the way, you might also want to read the first part of the IBEW constitution about "isms". Taking away the right to a secret ballot and having an "organizer" shove a card in your face is pretty darn close to facism. You think NAFTA caused a loss of jobs, just wait till you see the true effects of card check organizing. Zogby poll from yesterday reports that just 57% of union households plan to vote for barry.


His name is Barack. 57% of unions voting for Obama? That poll is either wrong or there are a lot of people without their best interests at heart. You can't just unionize and expect it to work these days, you need gov to make it fair with new trade agreements, incentives etc. Barack is not that stupid. He was president of the Harvard Law Review. McCain graduated 895 out of a class of 899 and his father and grandfather were friggin admirals of the navy! That's genius vs. jackass if you need me to sum it up.


----------



## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't particularly like McCain across the board on issues. I don't think Obama is Muslim, especially crooked or evil. Obama is probably as nice of a person as you will find among politicians. I just don't share Obama's vision of what America should become. Socialism has never worked anywhere on this planet. But there is always someone or some group that thinks they can make it work this time. I don't believe socialism can ever work and I really hate to see America try it. My family farmed the same farm since 1841 and never took a government subsidy. Didn't believe in "welfare". My dad had to be forced by our family to file for Social Security when he was 73. He didn't want to draw any "welfare" even though he had paid into it. He said that was for poor people. It looks like we will all see for ourselves in the next 4 years. I know me and my family will make out okay no matter who gets elected next week. A lot of things can happen to change everything in the blink of an eye. Have you ever stopped to wonder how things might be today if 9/11 hadn't happened? Americans are very capable of overcoming bad situations but sadly it seems to take ever larger calamities to rouse them to action. Keep America free. Give me choices and I will suffer and over come the consequences of my bad ones, just let me reap the benefits of my good ones too.


----------



## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

i know barry will raise everybodys taxes because rush limbaugh said so. then i heard it on FOX NEWS. so there.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

People will tend to vote with their feet. Look at California and New York. Both states own the title of highest taxes in the country, with California now in first place. California is broke, again, and something like 15 billion in the hole. Instead of cutting spending the democrats decided to raise taxes on the rich. What you have now is more people leaving the state than coming in, except of course for that large swarm that is coming across the southern border. California is a sancturary state and it pays for the illegals education, health care and free room and board at the gray bar hotel. Take from the rich, the producers, and give to poor, the non-producers. So the producers are leaving the state and heading for less socialistic states. Socialism doesn't work. And please don't confuse the terminator with a conservative, the argument isn't worth having.
Surfbh, OK, I'm curious and willing to listen to your ideas, or barry's, about trade agreements. Which one is bad and why, and how would you like to have it changed?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

First why should someone making over 250,000.00 pay more Second He did say they were going to have to lower the limit to 200,000.00


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

McCain graduated 895 out of a class of 899 and his father and grandfather were friggin admirals of the navy! That's genius vs. jackass if you need me to sum it up.[/quote]

I also graduated the bottom of my high school class, but excelled in my votec class and apprenticeship classes. I will compare W2's with you if you want to see who is smarter now. But then again if Obama is elected, I can kiss that hard earned money away.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

You really got to listen carefully when barry speaks, he is one gifted speaker I will give him that. He has a way of words that let those hear what they want to hear without giving much thought to what he just said. He says he won't raise taxes on those below somewhere around 200k. That is true, maybe, but since the current tax rates expire soon, it will be an increase in taxes but it will not be his doing. It's automatic and he will be able to claim it was not "his" tax increase. A true tax cut would be to extend the current rates. Democrats took back the congress in 2006 and the deficit went from 160 billion to now I think we are right about 1 trillion and a new stimulis package is being talked about in the tune of 300 to 450 billion dollars. Making the new deficit at around 1.5 trillion. Does anybody really think their direct/inderict taxes are not going up. And when barry throws 50 million more now uninsured into the health system. where are the hospitals and doctors going to come from to service all these people? Has anybody bothered to think about that? They say there is a shortage of doctors, nurses and clinics now. I think that is about another 1 trillion dollars being added to the debt. God help America.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

dawgs said:


> McCain graduated 895 out of a class of 899 and his father and grandfather were friggin admirals of the navy! That's genius vs. jackass if you need me to sum it up.


I also graduated the bottom of my high school class, but excelled in my votec class and apprenticeship classes. I will compare W2's with you if you want to see who is smarter now. But then again if Obama is elected, I can kiss that hard earned money away.[/quote]

I also graduated bottom of my class, and I think I hold my own fairly well in my chosen profession.

Also I have never heard Obama say the word victory, oh thats right losing is what he wants so he can rub McCains nose in it.


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*obamas first issue in office*

Well not to change the subject ,but there is a bigger issue !! There haven a big issue now in congress there trying to figure out how much money it will take of our taxes to spend on Mount Rushmore ya see they got a issue with how much it will cost to put Barrys towel up there on his head and there might not be enough stone left . best to ya take care


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

nick said:


> Well not to change the subject ,but there is a bigger issue !! There haven a big issue now in congress there trying to figure out how much money it will take of our taxes to spend on Mount Rushmore ya see they got a issue with how much it will cost to put Barrys towel up there on his head and there might not be enough stone left . best to ya take care


 That is just what we need. :no:


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*create jobs*

Well there thinking it will at least , put some money into a government project out there for all the unemployed workers layed off and so we can keep america working kinda brings back old Roosevelt days like the hoover dam project , best to ya barry


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

After seeing a report on the news by a supposedly independent tax think tank, I do not think we can afford either candidate.

Big O

those making 32,000 would see an increase in their tax credit (yes they get money back no pay pay) 2,700.00 to 4,200.00

those making 52,000 now pay 1,500.00, would now get a tax credit 500.00

those making 100,000 Would remain the same.

Over 250,000.00 would see increases.

McCain was similar till you get to the 250,000 he would not change their contributions (LIKE WE CHOOSE TO PAY)

Plus both want health care of some kind, 

I DO NOT THINK WE CAN AFFORD EITHER CANIDATE. How to hell can you run a country or a business charging less to your customers and giving more benefits to your employees?

GET US OUT OF DEBT,


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well first the long wait for americans to see doctors to get free government medical care most of us will die so that saves treatment and medical supplies . And the money we get back the ones that make 50k or less we can spend that $500 dollars on companys who will charge us more for there products the ones that make millions so they can pay more tax . So ya see it will all work out fine , or we all could move to a state thats allergy free like arizona this way you would be liven in a state that doesnt need lots of health care and the lines waiting to see a doctor would be shorter . best to ya TAXE care


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The good news in all this is more states are permitting gambling which is a sure way to make the poor pay their fair share of taxes that and cigarettes taxes.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Some big construction projects would be nice, especially power plants and oil refineries. The trouble is the tree huggers. I'm almost positive the Hoover Dam couldn't be built today or the Golden Gate Bridge. I'm sure everyone has seen pictures of ANWAR, what a sh*thole! And the greenies will fight to the death to keep that oil from us. I understand the greenies are fighting the transmission lines for the windmills in the midwest. Let the govt. get involved in anything and the costs go through the roof. The Big Dig in Boston, the rebuild of the freeways after the last big earthquake in SF was the most expensive road per mile ever built. When you build a bridge over water now you have to make sure that the pile driving doesn't disturb the fish. I remember a backhoe ran over a snake on an airport expansion and it brought the job to a complete stop while they tried to find a way to prevent such a tragedy from ever happenning again.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

For the record last night on an Obama advertisement he stated 200,000.00 as the cut off point.


----------



## Nodoggie (Oct 17, 2008)

Fact is, many Americans will never vote for a black man. They may not say it...they may not even admit it to themselves....they may make flowery justifications and even convince _themselves _otherwise. But that is the fact.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I agree and many blacks will vote him only because he is a black man both sides are wrong in this.

Look many* republicans* would vote for Hitler if he ran as a* Republican* and if he ran as a democrat some democrats* would* do the same. I have stated over and over blindly following a party, because granny always voted this way or the IBEW said to makes you a sheep, with no intelligent thought process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Speaking of Hitler, he came out of nowhere and was a great speaker. He could really get a crowd going. Create a boogeyman, in Hilter's case it was the Jews and the Americans and their allies after WWI and economic and military restrictions from losing the first war. And here comes barry out of nowhere, a Chicago political hack with no talent except the ability to give a good speech and get a crowd going. He won every political race by having his competition thrown off the ballots. Please read about Sal Alinski and his connection to barry to understand how he got to where he is today. Class warfare is classic socialism. The boogeyman is the rich, the reason that the non-producing class can't get ahead. When I see a non-producer they usually have an Ipod in their ears and they are texting on their blackberries. They are wearing $200 per pair Nike tennis shoes, they have a flat screen tv at home with an array of vidoe games attached to it. Of course after spending all the money for neccessities they have no money left to buy a belt. And what kind of idiot would buy a pair of pants 10 sizes too big? Did they think they would shrink that much? But whatever they do, they don't take any responsibility for their condition. It isn't their fault, it is the fault of the rich, that evil bastard that is earning over 250k a year and made his money on the back of the middle class. I mean, it had nothing to do with the fact that the evil rich worked 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. No, it had nothing to do with that. The reason the evil got rich was because they didn't share the earned rewards with the middle class. Remember that Lyndon Johnson created a new social class with the "new society". Welfare that goes on for generations. A population that has had government throw over 9 trillion dollars at them for over 40 years now. And where are they today? Still on welfare. Still with their hands out waiting for free money. And here comes barry with a promise to take from the producers and fill the hands of the welfare class. According to the welfare class the rich haven't paid enough, hence the boogeyman for the benefit of barry's class warfare. 
The thing I wanted to comment on was brian john's comment about how the IBEW wants you to vote. For me, I have alwalys voted my country first. I have never voted for my job. I was born an American and I will die an American. And in between I was a union member. I do not rely on any union or any politician to feed my family, that is my responsibility. When the IBEW tells me how to vote, I usually end up voting in the opposite. The IBEW doesn't give a damn about this country, they are in it for themselves. Dues money and political power overrides any sense of country. I hate to have to make that statement, but the unions support of card check where a man loses his right to a secret ballot has made me sick. It goes against everything that I thought a union was supposed to be about. And as far as that goes, why do the members not get the right to vote on the international president???? What a joke! The rep's that go to the conventions vote for the president of this union, and they don't have to vote according to how the local tells them to vote. OMOV, one man, one vote. Why is the IO so afraid of this? Has anyone ever noticed how business managers and the IO presidents seem to "retire" in the middle of their terms and they "appoint" their successor? Is it me, or does this seem like a lot of BS?


----------



## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

Well...crap...I thought I wouldn't be brought into this debate....so I'll just say what I have to say . Neither cantidate is qualified and neither has the views that will support what I want . I am IBEW...but not democrat or republican...I am somewhere in between .

Obama may have muslim ties...but can we prove it ...can we trust him...he has no experience.

McCain is a war hero...he has no experience . In my opinion he looks like an idiot on tv .

As far as a generation of i-pods , baggy pants.....I don't agree with it . Remember that the PARENTS are responsible for raising these kids right .

Welfare was a VERY good idea at the time . It should have had more stringent stipulations . It has helped very good families get a good start on life....unfortunately now you and I are paying for baby-makers and lazy SOB'S . Maybe this should be re-vised to go into a better program . Problem with society is everyone wants something for nothing . WHAT CAN YOU GIVE ME !!! Facing the same problem with my stepdaughter....failing grades , no chores , wants everything without the work . Talk to the parents about it . If she were my kid to raise from the beginning...well ...she'd be like me . 

TEACH the young.....they only have you or their idiot friends to look up to !

One last thought ...If you believe what any one says about your "future" president.....don't hold your breathe . They can say all they want.....but it's not up to the president to make the final choice. He , like all of us look to higher beings for what is to be done .


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

$250,000.......$200,000......., now right before the election AGAIN it's $150,000. That's $100,000 in a matter of weeks!!!! If some of you don't think you're gonna get smacked with this, think again. There's no way in the world this man could pay for all of the social programs he wants to do with taxing "just" the $150k+ people, it's going to go way below that. After all, if you make $50k a year, you're one of those dirty "rich" people.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Well stated UW.

Welfare is a necessity for those truly in need but like most government programs it is abused and has become an entitlement for many, generation to generation. 

At present both men are promising to head us into deeper debt. I feel everyone that works should pay some tax no matter how small, we should all be paying taxes, god knows I pay "MY FAIR SHARE" and then some.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> The thing I wanted to comment on was brian john's comment about how the IBEW wants you to vote. For me, I have alwalys voted my country first. I have never voted for my job. I was born an American and I will die an American. And in between I was a union member. I do not rely on any union or any politician to feed my family, that is my responsibility. When the IBEW tells me how to vote, I usually end up voting in the opposite. The IBEW doesn't give a damn about this country, they are in it for themselves. Dues money and political power overrides any sense of country.


 AMEN !!!!!!!!! This is one of the reasons why I got out of the IBEW.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Teach your children well, if you can. The trouble I see is the public school system who have decided to use our children for social re-engineering. Parental authority is challenged by the kids and that attitude is backed up at school a lot of the time. As students they are taught that the effort is more important than the results. This lessens the importance of success or failure. The clothes, the music and the lack of respect all set up these kids for failure. The only way to break the welfare chain is to eliminate the public school system as it is today, IMHO. As usual the govt. is the problem not the solution. And I know it is not the teachers, they are victims of the teachers union. Given the chance I think all parents would pull their kids out of the public system and put them in private schools if they could get vouchers to do so. But the teachers union has bought and paid for their politicians and vouchers keep getting voted down. I think that if you made welfare very difficult to get that would help also. If it were up to me I'd tell every person drawing welfare money that they have 5 more years of living of the public dime and then it is over. Welfare would be for people that have suffered a catastrophic loss or hardship. Being young or dumb doesn't qualify. And if you are living off of public money than you have to do some kind of work to earn it. It needs to easier to make something of your life than to just stroll on down to the welfare office and get a check.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If I had been a Obama supporter why I would not vote for him on Tuesday.

REASON 1 

Last week big "O" came to Leesburg tied up traffic like crazy took my wife 1.5 hours to go 5 miles. I got frustrated after waiting 20 minutes to turn into where I live and passed 3 cars to make a turn into my street, cops were hiding there.

REASON 2. Way too many calls reminded me why I should vote big "O".

REASON 3. I was napping yesterday when a knock on the door woke me a big "O" supporter wanted to talk to my son (who is away at college). I had to be to work at mid-night and this C**KSUKER disturbed my sleep never fell back.

REASON 4 I was disturbed 4 times today while trying to nap after getting home at 7:30 from an all nighter and NOT GETTING any sleep yesterday.

G*D DA*N IT leave me alone.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Every single presidential election season, the candidate that believes most of the same things that I do is pretty much unelectable. I think this will always be the case. I just wait until the end and pick the one I can tolerate the most. Sometimes, that's a tough decision, but better to pick one than none. I can say that I have a hard time reconciling being a small business owner with being able to support a candidate from a certain party that begins with D. Small matter. This is, and will continue to be, the greatest country on the planet. By the time a man reaches adulthood, you're not going to do a blessed thing to change his political beliefs, so I generally shy away from talk on the matter. It's a fruitless effort.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

worn kleins said:


> Teach your children well, if you can. The trouble I see is the public school system who have decided to use our children for social re-engineering. .


One issues with schools is they are dead set against a parent spanking their kids for discipline (I never spanked mine). But think nothing of medicating them for life to control them. I think a swat on the tushies will not be as damaging as the medicating effects.

The show I was listening to has 3 young adults that were on ridilin (?) or another coloniquin(?). They had little memories of the youth.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

dawgs said:


> McCain graduated 895 out of a class of 899 and his father and grandfather were friggin admirals of the navy! That's genius vs. jackass if you need me to sum it up.


I also graduated the bottom of my high school class, but excelled in my votec class and apprenticeship classes. I will compare W2's with you if you want to see who is smarter now. But then again if Obama is elected, I can kiss that hard earned money away.[/quote]

Having high W-2's certainly does not makeyou smart. An example of this would be BUSH.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> People will tend to vote with their feet. Look at California and New York. Both states own the title of highest taxes in the country, with California now in first place. California is broke, again, and something like 15 billion in the hole. Instead of cutting spending the democrats decided to raise taxes on the rich. What you have now is more people leaving the state than coming in, except of course for that large swarm that is coming across the southern border. California is a sancturary state and it pays for the illegals education, health care and free room and board at the gray bar hotel. Take from the rich, the producers, and give to poor, the non-producers. So the producers are leaving the state and heading for less socialistic states. Socialism doesn't work. And please don't confuse the terminator with a conservative, the argument isn't worth having.
> Surfbh, OK, I'm curious and willing to listen to your ideas, or barry's, about trade agreements. Which one is bad and why, and how would you like to have it changed?


We can't just wipe out trade agreements, things are very complex but it should be our goal. The reason the U.S. rose to power was because we have more more resources than any other country other than oil. We need to get off of oil and we need to produce in America. Sending our $$ to other countries does nothing but hurt this country. Of course prices will go up but that is why we need to UNIONIZE to demand higher pay. When unions were strong the standard of living for the middle class was much higher. And that was with 1 paycheck!


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

surfbh said:


> I also graduated the bottom of my high school class, but excelled in my votec class and apprenticeship classes. I will compare W2's with you if you want to see who is smarter now. But then again if Obama is elected, I can kiss that hard earned money away.


Having high W-2's certainly does not makeyou smart. An example of this would be BUSH.[/QUOTE]

Look painting a Republican as stupid has been a media ploy for years, I am no Bush fan by any means BUT you do not graduate college (Yale) and make it to his position by being stupid. 

And having high W2's means you can pay your bills, BECAUSE generally you are good at what you do or you have been robbing banks and telling the IRS???? No that makes no sense.


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

The one bright spot in this economy right now are our exports, which are growing. It is the only reason we continue to have some positive GDP growth. As to standard of living, the middle class has never been in better shape. And compared to the rest of the world we are way ahead. The biggest need for two paychecks has been the drive for convenience and to keep up with the jones's. Compare our standard today with 1950. To get the point picture this; go into a house that was built in 1950 and count how many outlets are along the walls and in the kitchen. Now compare that with todays construction. All lot of money is being spent every month on things you could live without. You have all these things for convenience and to keep up with the jones's. I am all for making as much money as possible, it's the dream if that's what you want. But continually raising the pay of the middle class will only cause inflation to spiral out of control. There has to be a balance, economics 101. Face it, not everyone can buy everything they see. It is what capitolism is all about. If you need to make more money, work harder, put in 12 or 16 hours a day if that is what it takes. But you can buy the basics on one paycheck. No one has a God given right to have life handed to them. And if the pay of the middle class continues to raise by virtue of union contracts, which drives up the cost of the goods produced, then won't we have to keep raising welfare payments to keep up as well? Another problem with paying someone more than they produce is they can be replaced with a robot. Look at the auto plants. A computer and a couple of robots now do the job(s) that a crew of men used to do. You better be careful what you wish for by pushing for card check unionization and higher and higher wages, the companies will find a way to replace you. There is always someone out there that will work for less. Somehow companies can make something over seas, like electronics, and pay to ship them over here and still make more money than if they were made here. Even the building trades are not safe anymore. The swarm coming across the souther border will cut each other's throat for a buck. I've seen it. In california you can get guys to do what you do for 5 bucks an hour cash, and they won't even stop for lunch. The comunication is a gonna be a little rough at first, but they'll catch on.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Just make sure your kids can speak Spanish. That's what Obama said.


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

With all the talk of Barack Hussein Obama and the economy and his health care plan and his tax "plan", many people are forgetting that he's a rock solid supported of FULL TERM abortion. That's a grown 9 month old baby. Here, read more: 

_by John Vennari_
Published in the Philadelphia Bulletin, Oct. 31, 2008
On Oct. 7, 2007, Sen. Barack Obama spoke to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund and promised, "The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'll do."

What is the Freedom of Choice Act? It is the most sweeping pro-abortion legislation ever proposed in the United States. 

In a letter dated Sept. 19 to members of Congress, Philadelphia's Justin Cardinal Rigali rightly warned:

"Despite its deceptive title, FOCA would deprive the American people in all 50 states of the freedom they now have to enact modest restraints and regulations on the abortion industry. FOCA would coerce all Americans into subsidizing and promoting abortion with their tax dollars. And FOCA would counteract any and all sincere efforts by government to reduce abortions in our country.

"The operative language of FOCA is twofold. First it creates a 'fundamental right' to abortion throughout the nine months of pregnancy, including a right to abort a fully developed child in the final weeks for undefined "health" reasons. No government body at any level would be able to "deny or interfere with" this newly created federal right. Second, it forbids government at all levels to "discriminate" against the exercise of this right "in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information." For the first time, abortion on demand would be a national entitlement that government must condone and promote in all public programs affecting pregnant women," said the cardinal.

It is clear the FOCA raises abortion to what it calls a "fundamental right." Yet it is not clear if Catholics realize the threat that Mr. Obama poses to the unborn, to believing Catholics in the medical profession, and to Catholic hospitals across the nation. 

Michael Moses, legal analyst of the United States Council of Catholic Bishops called it a "radical measure" that will "go way beyond Roe [vs. Wade]." The language is so sweeping that it will wipe out any state's "conscience" clause, which is the law that allows hospitals, doctors and nurses to abstain from taking part in abortion for reasons of conscience. If abortion is a "fundamental right", according to FOCA, then every hospital must provide it.

The net result, as one writer noted, is "President Obama and his congressional supermajority would force every Christian hospital, doctor or nurse to abandon their faith or go out of business." Under FOCA, believing Christians could be banned from the hospital industry (and apostolate) by federal law.


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Ohh, and here's the man that refuses to put his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is recited, ohh wait, he won't even say the Pledge of Allegiance.










People, just look at Obama's face. He doesn't give a crap about you or your family, or the country in which he's running for President of the United States of America.

I still can't believe so many people support this "man".

What a truly sad time in the history of our great country, The United States of America, this really is.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> I still can't believe so many people support this "man".


Well Brian I can tell you this I don't support that MORON at all. You can bet your ass that he will put his hand on the koran if he is elected.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

gilbequick said:


> Ohh, and here's the man that refuses to put his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is recited, ohh wait, he won't even say the Pledge of Allegiance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I have been trying to figure out why anyone supports this muslim.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have been trying to figure out why anyone supports this muslim.


 
Yea me too. :no: :wallbash:


----------



## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*sworn in with koran*

Well any ball game in america or sport we always put our hand on our hearts its respect , I have never seen that picture before this day . I have even a lower respect for him now than before ,he is not what we need but we know the minority races will vote for him,maybe they will use the koran during the sworn oath . best to ya take care


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

*Politics????*

I swore to never come to this level of speaking politics on an electrical forum, but I'll say brian john had it right in post#32, and for the love of America, who are you people calling this guy Barry? You think that's funny some how? You see some humor behind that? It must not take much to amuse you

Barry,....... you think that's funny?????????????? I'll shut up now, before I put my foot in my mouth

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, that belonged to Rev. Wright's pasture that *** Damned America.

What is America coming to???????


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

76nemo said:


> I swore to never come to this level of speaking politics on an electrical forum, but I'll say brian john had it right in post#32, and for the love of America, who are you people calling this guy Barry? You think that's funny some how? You see some humor behind that? It must not take much to amuse you
> 
> Barry,....... you think that's funny?????????????? I'll shut up now, before I put my foot in my mouth
> 
> ...


 
"Barry", sounds like a barium enema a real pain in the ass if you need one. 

Remember obama wants to take our dollars and give us change.


----------



## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> The one bright spot in this economy right now are our exports, which are growing. It is the only reason we continue to have some positive GDP growth. As to standard of living, the middle class has never been in better shape. And compared to the rest of the world we are way ahead. The biggest need for two paychecks has been the drive for convenience and to keep up with the jones's. Compare our standard today with 1950. To get the point picture this; go into a house that was built in 1950 and count how many outlets are along the walls and in the kitchen. Now compare that with todays construction. All lot of money is being spent every month on things you could live without. You have all these things for convenience and to keep up with the jones's. I am all for making as much money as possible, it's the dream if that's what you want. But continually raising the pay of the middle class will only cause inflation to spiral out of control. There has to be a balance, economics 101. Face it, not everyone can buy everything they see. It is what capitolism is all about. If you need to make more money, work harder, put in 12 or 16 hours a day if that is what it takes. But you can buy the basics on one paycheck. No one has a God given right to have life handed to them. And if the pay of the middle class continues to raise by virtue of union contracts, which drives up the cost of the goods produced, then won't we have to keep raising welfare payments to keep up as well? Another problem with paying someone more than they produce is they can be replaced with a robot. Look at the auto plants. A computer and a couple of robots now do the job(s) that a crew of men used to do. You better be careful what you wish for by pushing for card check unionization and higher and higher wages, the companies will find a way to replace you. There is always someone out there that will work for less. Somehow companies can make something over seas, like electronics, and pay to ship them over here and still make more money than if they were made here. Even the building trades are not safe anymore. The swarm coming across the souther border will cut each other's throat for a buck. I've seen it. In california you can get guys to do what you do for 5 bucks an hour cash, and they won't even stop for lunch. The comunication is a gonna be a little rough at first, but they'll catch on.


Middle class has never been in better shape?

Seriously, are you on crack? That is the most ignorant thing I have seen posted on this site and that is saying A LOT!


----------



## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

your right surf, as always. i know a middle class guy whos in such bad shape he had to sell one of his 6 cars. says hes gonna keep the 2 harleys , no matter what. poor guy.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I look around at all I have and am grateful for my success.

I got whats mine, the rest of yall can go **********

And that's not cake.

Ohh wait a sec?? I didn't get this all by myself?! It wasn't all simply the fruits of MY labor? Of course not, I've been to third world countries and seen people work themselves to death and die penniless. 

Its America that's to blame for my success, here I can do anything.
Looking at the things in America that enabled me to be successful, I'd say democrats had alot more to do with creating those conditions of success than any rightwinger did. Enough said, choke your bootstraps on that you Bush-kissers.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

This is headed downhill fast, so level it off or it's closed. 

Thanks. :thumbsup:


----------



## Aiken Colon (May 16, 2008)

unionwirewoman said:


> Welfare was a VERY good idea at the time . It should have had more stringent stipulations . It has helped very good families get a good start on life....unfortunately now you and I are paying for baby-makers and lazy SOB'S . Maybe this should be re-vised to go into a better program . Problem with society is everyone wants something for nothing . WHAT CAN YOU GIVE ME !!! Facing the same problem with my stepdaughter....failing grades , no chores , wants everything without the work . Talk to the parents about it . If she were my kid to raise from the beginning...well ...she'd be like me .
> 
> TEACH the young.....they only have you or their idiot friends to look up to !
> 
> One last thought ...If you believe what any one says about your "future" president.....don't hold your breathe . They can say all they want.....but it's not up to the president to make the final choice. He , like all of us look to higher beings for what is to be done .


In all my years of sales (just 11), there are just 2 things you're taught to avoid from day one. Politics and religion. Only a handful of my very long time customers have heard me talk of either. However, this post struck home. This Generation "Y" is something else. I have to deal with the "I deserve everything for nothing" attitude all day long. These damn kids think they're owed something just for being born. They have all these half-assed opinions that they're parents have been spewing into their ears, but never explained to them. It's to the point where I don't even acknowledge their political mutterings with a response, unless they can explain what they're talking about.

But the greatest satisfaction I get (other than closing the big deal :thumbsup is spotting these "slackers" and working them to the bone. Riding these kids like Seattle Slew. Gives me that "I did something to better society" feeling at the end of the day.

Chris


----------



## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

Aiken Colon said:


> In all my years of sales (just 11), there are just 2 things you're taught to avoid from day one. Politics and religion. Only a handful of long had customers of mine have heard me talk of either. However, this post struck home. This Generation "Y" is something else. I have deal with the "I deserve everything for nothing" attitude all day long. These damn kids think they're owed something just for being born. They have all these half-assed opinions that they're parents have been spewing into their ears, but never explained to them. It's to the point where I don't even acknowledge their political mutterings with a response, unless they can explain what they're talking about.
> 
> But the greatest satisfaction I get (other than closing the big deal :thumbsup is spotting these "slackers" and working them to the bone. Riding these kids like Seattle Slew. Gives me that "I did something to better society" feeling at the end of the day.
> 
> Chris


:thumbsup:


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Aiken Colon said:


> But the greatest satisfaction I get (other than closing the big deal :thumbsup is spotting these "slackers" and working them to the bone. Riding these kids like Seattle Slew. Gives me that "I did something to better society" feeling at the end of the day.
> 
> Chris


:clap:


----------



## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Right on Aiken Colon. The new battle cry of the republic;

"GIVE ME, GIVE ME, GIVE ME! I WANT IT, I WANT IT, YOU OWE ME!


----------

