# Today's SPOT THE VIOLATIONS!



## 99cents

It's half a bubble off. Should have levelled it. Other than that it looks okay.

Oh, and somebody lost the cover. Minor.


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## Anathera

No straps to be seen, that looks like a water line festooned around it, white wires on breakers, I am sure there is more I am missing

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## 480sparky

Anathera said:


> .....white wires on breakers,..........


Those are actually exceedingly pale blue conductors. I had to look at them closely myself.


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## emtnut

I guess the incoming neutral was just a tad short :laughing:

Is that a frayed ground wire at the service conductor conduit ?


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## Dennis Alwon

emtnut said:


> I guess the incoming neutral was just a tad short :laughing:
> 
> Is that a frayed ground wire at the service conductor conduit ?


I like the way they used a #10 Black wire- I think- to splice on to it.


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## telsa

emtnut;2777785[B said:


> ]I guess the incoming neutral was just a tad shor[/B]t :laughing:
> 
> Is that a frayed ground wire at the service conductor conduit ?


AGREED.

VERY odd.


:no::no:


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## telsa

The GEC figures to be seriously over amped. :laughing:

I'm shocked.

And figure they'd be shocked -- too.


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## emtnut

Anathera said:


> No straps to be seen, that looks like a water line festooned around it, white wires on breakers, I am sure there is more I am missing
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


I think that's a gas line !


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## 480sparky

Dennis Alwon said:


> I like the way they used a #10 Black wire- I think- to splice on to it.


It's actually 12.


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## 480sparky

emtnut said:


> I think that's a gas line !


Poly water line for the ice maker. Saddle valve on CPVC.


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## emtnut

Is 'every' circuit a MWBC ?


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## joebanana

All of the above, plus contamination on the bottom. Is/was the missing cover labeled? Unused openings sealed?


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## 480sparky

I have to take the cover off to see the innards. So there's no 'missing' cover.


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## joebanana

480sparky said:


> I have to take the cover off to see the innards. So there's no 'missing' cover.


Yeah, I kinda figured that, but considering the severe lack of "workman like manner" I just figured nothing was labeled, and all the cover K.O.'s were......uh, K.O.ed.


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## Bird dog

If it is a service, shouldn't the conduit with the service conductors have a bond bushing and jumper?


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## 480sparky

Bird dog said:


> If it is a service, shouldn't the conduit with the service conductors have a bond bushing and jumper?


That's one more!




joebanana said:


> Yeah, I kinda figured that, but considering the severe lack of "workman like manner" I just figured nothing was labeled, and all the cover K.O.'s were......uh, K.O.ed.


Actually, there's no missing KOs in the cover. And surprisingly, all 4 factory screws are present!


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## 99cents

480sparky said:


> I have to take the cover off to see the innards. So there's no 'missing' cover.


That's the problem. You took the cover off. I hope you learned your lesson :laughing: .


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## 480sparky

99cents said:


> That's the problem. You took the cover off. I hope you learned your lesson:laughing: .



If I didn't take the cover off, I won't be able to retask the dryer circuit and add a bath circuit.


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## 99cents

480sparky said:


> If I didn't take the cover off, I won't be able to retask the dryer circuit and add a bath circuit.


Just grinding your gears, 480 :laughing: .


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## 480sparky

There's still two more that I can remember.


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## Bird dog

1) Cast set screw connectors aren't approved for grounding/service riser (connector missing set screws)
2) Top far left connector is missing it's set screw
3) If the neutral is a #4 or larger, blue wire nuts are only listed up to #6 CU


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## frenchelectrican

Did my eyes tease me but did have one conductor going to 2p breaker and other one is on sp breaker ??

The other thing what up with that tape wrapped up near service entrance conductor ??,


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## papaotis

is there a ground wire or is it the black one upper left?


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## 480sparky

Bird dog said:


> 1) Cast set screw connectors aren't approved for grounding/service riser (connector missing set screws)
> 2) Top far left connector is missing it's set screw
> 3) If the neutral is a #4 or larger, blue wire nuts are only listed up to #6 CU


The missing set-screws are ones I noticed. I never thought about the listing for the Big Blue.

But I think I've spied two more. So there's still three yet to be identified.


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## micromind

there's non-electrical stuff above it.


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## papaotis

is ugly a code violation?


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## 480sparky

papaotis said:


> is ugly a code violation?



My inspector says I am... er.... I mean... *it* is.


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## Hired Hand

Missing handle tie on the wires in the right hand conduit?


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## 480sparky

Hired Hand said:


> Missing handle tie on the wires in the right hand conduit?


Might be grandfathered in.


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## Hired Hand

Also unsure of the situation, but possibly the feeder conduit is used as a EGC here. Which would mean the bonding screw would need to be removed?


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## emtnut

Wire on 30A breaker seems undersized

**edit** Hard to make out, but are there 2 30A breakers in there?


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## chicken steve

Possibly 210.4(D), given the raceway(s)>



> (D) * Grouping.* The ungrounded and grounded circuit con-
> ductors of each multiwire branch circuit shall be grouped
> by cable ties or similar means in at least one location within
> the panelboard or other point of origination.


~CS~


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## 480sparky

chicken steve said:


> Possibly 210.4(D), given the raceway(s)>
> 
> 
> 
> ~CS~


Given the age, I think this install predates that.




emtnut said:


> Wire on 30A breaker seems undersized
> 
> **edit** Hard to make out, but are there 2 30A breakers in there?



That's one more!

Dryer is wired with three #12s. There's also a 30a SP on the right side.


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## RePhase277

The metal conduit notwithstanding, if the neutral is diconnected, there is no fault current path at the MBJ.

EDIT: Nevermind. I see the black wire spliced on.


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## emtnut

480sparky said:


> That's one more!
> 
> Dryer is wired with three #12s. There's also a 30a SP on the right side.


Then that's 2 more :jester:


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## 480sparky

emtnut said:


> Then that's 2 more :jester:


Well, you can claim it's _five _more since there's five #12s on 30a breakers. :whistling2:


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## emtnut

480sparky said:


> Well, you can claim it's _five _more since there's five #12s on 30a breakers. :whistling2:


OK .. I'll take the 5 then :laughing:

Dryer is the only 240V load ?


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## 480sparky

emtnut said:


> OK .. I'll take the 5 then :laughing:
> 
> Dryer is the only 240V load ?



Typical 3-wire. Or at least it was. I've retasked that for a general-purpose circuit as the HO doesn't want the dryer recep any more.


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## chicken steve

Perhaps those foreign pipes , a working space issue ......one might also question sealing pipe entries from in/outside as well 480.....~CS~


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## backstay

Q0 panel.


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## jriederer

Why is there only 5 neutrals landed for 9 breakers? And where are the grounds?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


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## Anathera

My guess is it is a homeowner replacement for a much older panel, a lot of our older residential panels have the neutral bar up at the top which would explain that really short neutral

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## 480sparky

jriederer said:


> Why is there only 5 neutrals landed for 9 breakers?


MWBCs.




jriederer said:


> And where are the grounds?


It's called EMT.




jriederer said:


> Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


Sent from MyOuthouse via ToiletPaper


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## emtnut

480sparky said:


> Sent from MyOuthouse via ToiletPaper


:laughing::laughing::laughing: <~~~ three of them, just to abide the Peter D rule


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## cagresham85

480sparky said:


> It's called EMT.


Does anybody actually use EMT for their ground? Genuinely asking. Not being a smart ass.


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## 480sparky

cagresham85 said:


> Does anybody actually use EMT for their ground? Genuinely asking. Not being a smart ass.


I generally do since I've actually researched it and found it's a far superior ground than a copper conductor.


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## Bird dog

480sparky said:


> I generally do since I've actually researched it and found it's a far superior ground than a copper conductor.


You just have to make sure all of your connectors and couplings are approved for grounding.


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## 480sparky

Bird dog said:


> You just have to make sure all of your connectors and couplings are approved for grounding.



Very few aren't.


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## papaotis

only problem is making sure everyone tightens everything. including both ends of a ground wire run through a conduit!:whistling2:


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## Sparkchaser1

I was in the middle of this argument a while back....you will be considered an idiot and money waster and anti-code if you pull a separate EGC (at least by some), even if your AHJ requires it.


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## wcord

Almost all of the specifications on our commercial/industrial projects have ground wires in the conduit. 
I have noticed lately a number of loose set screws and lock nuts, on both new and old work. Obviously sloppy workmanship
This could be why the engineers are adding the grounds.


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## 480sparky

wcord said:


> Almost all of the specifications on our commercial/industrial projects have ground wires in the conduit.
> I have noticed lately a number of loose set screws and lock nuts, on both new and old work. Obviously sloppy workmanship
> This could be why the engineers are adding the grounds.


Using a green copper conductor is no guarantee either. One can be just as sloppy installing it.


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## Sparkchaser1

480sparky said:


> I generally do since I've actually researched it and found it's a far superior ground than a copper conductor.


Is there actually researchable scientific data concerning this? Did they take data from the field concerning EGC failures, pitting EMT versus an actual conductor? Did electricians in the field actually submit this data?


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## 480sparky

Sparkchaser1 said:


> Is there actually researchable scientific data concerning this? Did they take data from the field concerning EGC failures, pitting EMT versus an actual conductor? Did electricians in the field actually submit this data?


Soare's Book on Grounding and Bonding.


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