# New one on me



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cool starry bra.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Cool starry bra.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MTW said:


> So last summer I helped rough a house and just recently some of my coworkers did the finish. There were multiple 4" squares with plaster ring for switches in areas where I couldn't fit a regular nail on. I never install a pigtail for the ground for switches in a metal box. I consider it a waste of time and besides, the NEC allows it.
> 
> I was told today that I made a mistake and you always have to install a pigtail for a metal box. They installed pigtails on the finish.


I use automatic ground devices, no pigtail required. I think pigtails are a plastic box thing.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Where does NEC allow this?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Where does NEC allow this?


Where does it forbid it?


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## Haley (Oct 3, 2017)

250.148(C) is where I would start. EC&M has a good article on this subject as well.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

It doesn't seem there is a requirement for self grounding switches....



> *404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.*
> 
> *(B) Grounding.* Snap switches, including dimmer and
> similar control switches, shall be connected to an equipment
> ...


....but there is for receptacles.



> *250.146 Connecting Receptacle Grounding Terminal to
> Box.* An equipment bonding jumper shall be used to connect
> the grounding terminal of a grounding-type receptacle
> to a grounded box unless grounded as in 250.146(A)
> ...


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

If this is new and surprising, just wait until you actually see a naked woman for the first time... Your mind is going to melt.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> If this is new and surprising, just wait until you actually see a naked woman for the first time... Your mind is going to melt.


So it's like when you saw Hax naked for the first time?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Making us ground switches is on of the top ten dumbest codes out there.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I protested pigtail grounding on over 170 server receptacles. They all had raised industrial covers. We could have saved so much on time and material not having to splice the grounding wires.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Making us ground switches is on of the top ten dumbest codes out there.


Yeah, good thing we *always* do it though


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Yeah, good thing we *always* do it though


No we don't.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Making us ground switches is on of the top ten dumbest codes out there.


That's what you get for using plastic boxes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That's what you get for using plastic boxes.


Lot's of room to work is what we get by using plastic boxes.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Lot's of room to work is what we get by using plastic boxes.


I do fine with metal boxes 99% of the time.

Yes there are times with timers and GFCIs that I may opt for a plastic box but it isn't often.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Lot's of room to work is what we get by using plastic boxes.



Not to mention speed of installation, zero possibility of shorting to box upon removal of device while energized (except nobody ever did that of course), and cost also are good factors. Oh, and never rusts. No brainer.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I do fine with metal boxes 99% of the time.
> 
> Yes there are times with timers and GFCIs that I may opt for a plastic box but it isn't often.


You will only get that talk from guys who really didn't ever do residential jobs , and are maintenance guys in the first place.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I do fine with metal boxes 99% of the time.
> 
> Yes there are times with timers and GFCIs that I may opt for a plastic box but it isn't often.


You are providing a disservice for the customer and should feel bad.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Not to mention speed of installation, zero possibility of shorting to box upon removal of device while energized (except nobody ever did that of course), and cost also are good factors. Oh, and never rusts. No brainer.


I just had to wrestle a few USB receptacles into metal boxes the other day. The homeowner asked why they would use such a small box, I said because some people are silly.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I just had to wrestle a few USB receptacles into metal boxes the other day. The homeowner asked why they would use such a small box, I said because some people are silly.



They are. They also have to add a Romex connector cost and labor into the job , and if multiple cables like a three gang then 2 or 3 Romex connectors. Stupid . And ground the box. It's worse than stupid. It's F'tarded.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> You will only get that talk from guys who really didn't ever do residential jobs , and are maintenance guys in the first place.


I've never been a resi guy and only did it on the side.

I'm big on 4x4s w/ mudrings for new work.

Never much on romex either.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> You are providing a disservice for the customer and should feel bad.


I rarely if ever feel bad about anything.

Do I give an impression I have a conscience for stuff like that?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> So last summer I helped rough a house and just recently some of my coworkers did the finish. There were multiple 4" squares with plaster ring for switches in areas where I couldn't fit a regular nail on. I never install a pigtail for the ground for switches in a metal box. I consider it a waste of time and besides, the NEC allows it.
> 
> I was told today that I made a mistake and you always have to install a pigtail for a metal box. They installed pigtails on the finish.


Did you get a code reference ?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> If this is new and surprising, just wait until you actually see a naked woman for the first time... Your mind is going to melt.


That will never happen. :no:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Did you get a code reference ?


Not yet, I may if the issue is raised again. I don't do much roughing anyway so I don't care. I just found it amusing that they thought it was wrong.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

As for plastic boxes, the company I work for roughs at least 2 houses a week. All metal boxes in the junky houses they put up these days? Ahh no. :lol:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If I was doing my own house and it was down to the studs I would probably use MCAP and 1900 boxes with mud rings. I like having lots of room in the boxes and the MCAP would be nice for a little extra protection and also no EGC to deal with.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HackWork said:


> If I was doing my own house and it was down to the studs I would probably use MCAP and 1900 boxes with mud rings. I like having lots of room in the boxes and the MCAP would be nice for a little extra protection and also no EGC to deal with.


Sounds like a waste of money using MC and metal boxes but, we aren’t all as successful as you.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> If I was doing my own house and it was down to the studs I would probably use MCAP and 1900 boxes with mud rings. I like having lots of room in the boxes and the MCAP would be nice for a little extra protection and also no EGC to deal with.


I would use metal 4" squares with romex but no pigtails on anything and self grounding receptacles. :thumbup:

I still haven't had the chance to use mcap yet.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> They are. They also have to add a Romex connector cost and labor into the job , and if multiple cables like a three gang then 2 or 3 Romex connectors. Stupid . And ground the box. It's worse than stupid. It's F'tarded.


Do you even internal cable clamps, bro?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Why are we even having this discussion? Let the Canadians use all metal boxes for everything. Down here we use plastic. End of story.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> Sounds like a waste of money using MC and metal boxes but, we aren’t all as successful as you.


How much money?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I just read an article about people getting killed from ungrounded switches. 


Said no one ever.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I just read an article about people getting killed from ungrounded switches.
> 
> 
> Said no one ever.


A switch should be grounded.

The question is whether it needs a pigtail to ground it in a metal box. The answer is no.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Is it common practice to pigtail for switches in metal boxes? I never did it on my own jobs but everyone I ever worked for wanted it done


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> A switch should be grounded.
> .


Why? So someone doesn't get zapped by a little painted 6-32 screw?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Is it common practice to pigtail for switches in metal boxes? I never did it on my own jobs but everyone I ever worked for wanted it done


No, only plastic.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> No, only plastic.



So it wasn't common on your union jobs then?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> So it wasn't common on your union jobs then?


It's like pigtailing, or running an EGC in pipe. Some jobs want redundancy. So in the hospitals and data centers we always ran a tail to switches. But I don't really consider that common. In retail and other normal commercial work we never did.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Why? So someone doesn't get zapped by a little painted 6-32 screw?


Yes, or the metal plate that the customer ends up putting on.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Find someone who has ever died or been hurt by that scenario. This is just another stupid code that Dennis made them put in.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Find someone who has ever died or been hurt by that scenario. This is just another stupid code that Dennis made them put in.


You're trolling is sub par.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

The switch yoke is made of metal so it needs to be grounded. This is basic common sense.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> You're trolling is sub par.


*Your


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> *Your


I told you guys, blame Siri.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Not yet, I may if the issue is raised again. I don't do much roughing anyway so I don't care. I just found it amusing that they thought it was wrong.


Nice troll thread.:thumbsup:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Nice troll thread.:thumbsup:


Oh, so you basically have nothing to contribute. Got it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Oh, so you basically have nothing to contribute. Got it.


Chris hasn't contributed a single thing since he and you came back from Mike Holt's.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Going_Commando said:


> Do you even internal cable clamps, bro?


Sure. I use those when I run mc. And I rotosplit the cables and it takes a corn hole longer time to do that than Romex and everybody knows it. Besides getting black goop on your hands or having to wear gloves while working. Face it, for residential its bogus unless its your own place in which case , maybe as a rodent deterrent. Me? I wire my own places with nm and keep em clean and don't have rats. Put screens over the bird blocks so birds don't peck their way into attic, and that is a primary way for rats to come in after the eggs. Also dog food stays locked up in cans , and if fido don't eat when it is placed in front of him, he better do so quick or that food ain't staying there , he will go hungry till the next feeding time. Dogs learn quick.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I like the plastic boxes we have up here that have the metal strap. I pretty much never pigtail a ground for a switch, because the box is either metal or has the grounding strap. I agree that those dinky metal boxes are silly in residential. I use plastic in resi and 4x4s with mud rings in commercial. 

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

B-Nabs said:


> I like the plastic boxes we have up here that have the metal strap. I pretty much never pigtail a ground for a switch, because the box is either metal or has the grounding strap. I agree that those dinky metal boxes are silly in residential. I use plastic in resi and 4x4s with mud rings in commercial.


Is that common in commercial work? I thought you guys were obsessed with using those 1 gang metal device boxes for everything, including MC/BX cable.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Different strokes. I see a lot of companies using the single gang boxes with the cable clamps in commercial, but I hate them. Sure they're cheaper than a 4x4 + mud ring + connectors but I don't care, I think it's a far better installation.

In residential, plastic boxes are most common around here for new work. I think the nail on metal boxes are more popular on the east coast. Dunno haven't been around the country much, but that's what I see here. Seems the sideways panel is a more east thing too, I'm not sure I've ever seen one in real life. 

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> I like the plastic boxes we have up here that have the metal strap. I pretty much never pigtail a ground for a switch, because the box is either metal or has the grounding strap. I agree that those dinky metal boxes are silly in residential. I use plastic in resi and 4x4s with mud rings in commercial.


I wish we had the plastic boxes with the metal strap.


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