# Union guys and their picket duty outside the job



## Sunny 1 (May 11, 2012)

Can't we all just get along smh


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't see an issue.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

...you forgot to post, *'fighting the good fight for all workers, worldwide'*


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Of course we can all get along. From your photograph you appear to be on a construction site - most likely the one that the picketers are picketing.

If you would be so kind as to put your tools down and walk down to the street and talk with your fellow construction workers - probably a bunch of nice folks like yourself - and see why they are picketing and come back here and share that with us I would appreciate it.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> ...you forgot to post, *'fighting the good fight for all workers, worldwide'*


By blocking non-union workers from getting to work. 

It makes perfect sense .........


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> By blocking non-union workers from getting to work.
> 
> It makes perfect sense .........


But since OP is on the site that means - OP is non union and was not blocked. It is probably an informational picket, set up to make folks aware of the hazardous nature of that job site.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> By blocking non-union workers from getting to work.
> 
> It makes perfect sense .........


Where are they blocking anyone? I don't see it... care to point it out?


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

I don't see anyone not "getting along". The picketers might be asked to stand on the sidewalk, and in some locations they'd be asked to walk instead of standing, but otherwise what are the pics showing? I was expecting maybe a rock in a passing car window or somebody being set ablaze. But no.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> But since OP is on the site that means - OP is non union and was not blocked. It is probably an informational picket, set up to make folks aware of the hazardous nature of that job site.


It becomes ridicuolous when you try to ignore how it really goes.

Yes, I am sure it is an 'informational picket' I have yet to see one informational picket that did not require the cops around to keep the traffic flowing both vehicle and pedestrian. 

But hey, maybe they just wonder into the way by accident over and over again. :laughing:



480sparky said:


> Where are they blocking anyone? I don't see it... care to point it out?


It's informational.  :whistling2:


How many of these pickets have you had to personally deal with Ken? Oh wait, you are an expert on all things, sorry for asking stupid questions. :laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

BTW, the OP is a troll so take it all with a grain of salt. :thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> .....How many of these pickets have you had to personally deal with Ken? Oh wait, you are an expert on all things, sorry for asking stupid questions. :laughing:


You're the expert on what I have experienced, so I'll let you answer that.

Nice dodge, I'll give you that much.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Appears to be the last remaining hold-outs of the Occupy movement.

I wonder if they realize that everyone else went home?


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> It becomes ridicuolous when you try to ignore how it really goes.
> 
> Yes, I am sure it is an 'informational picket' I have yet to see one informational picket that did not require the cops around to keep the traffic flowing both vehicle and pedestrian.
> 
> But hey, maybe they just wonder into the way by accident over and over again. :laughing:


I don't see any cops or other impediments. Honestly it looks rather placid.
I'm sure once OP comes back after talking with the fine folks on the sidewalk we will have a better idea of what this is all about.

For the record, I have been on all sorts of pickets - and most of them are boringly pleasant punctuated by who makes the best crumbcake arguments ( B&W Bakery in Hackensack NJ ).


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> By blocking non-union workers from getting to work.
> 
> It makes perfect sense .........


the pic he has taken was from the inside of the building being picketed.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

eejack said:


> most of them are boringly pleasant punctuated by who makes the best crumbcake arguments ( B&W Bakery in Hackensack NJ ).


Hey, is Lodi Modern Bakery still around? When I was a kid dad drove us down on Saturdays when they were open to the public...to wait on a line down the block to buy a couple dozen of the best hard rolls you ever tasted. Hot, right out of the oven. We never made it home without stealing one "for the ride".


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I participated in one picket many years ago. I have observed several others, but only participated on one occasion.
The reality was the picketers were doing nothing wrong while we ducked from bottles and other items thrown at us from passing motorists.
We received the middle finger from many and hateful insults and threats could be heard all day long.
It was hard to remain calm. But we did.
That was my experience with a picket.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The city of Detroit is what happens when labor unions take over the work place.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> The city of Detroit is what happens when labor unions take over the work place.


The US today is what happens when they are rendered powerless.



A fair balance of power is a good thing. 

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely".


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

CraigV said:


> "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely".


_Absolutely_ Craig :thumbsup:

So let those Unions , who gained all the power through legislation , gain a little humility looking at the work they could have had from _outside_ in...

~CS~


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

And let those looking out dream of what they could have had.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> _Absolutely_ Craig :thumbsup:
> 
> So let those Unions , who gained all the power through legislation , gain a little humility looking at the work they could have had from _outside_ in...
> 
> ~CS~


 Did you read the rest of my post? My point is that the pendulum has swung the other way, and we have companies that are cash-rich but won't hire anyone, wages that have stagnated, workers that are disgusted but have literally no recourse. We're back to the 1800's. Yay. 

Balance was the point.


----------



## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

*Wishful thinking*



Sunny 1 said:


> Can't we all just get along smh


 


Just try it~~~~


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> _Absolutely_ Craig :thumbsup:
> 
> So let those Unions , who gained all the power through legislation , gain a little humility looking at the work they could have had from _outside_ in...
> 
> ~CS~


Steve, it totally amazes me that you do not see the corrolation that exist between union and non union. If the unions do not exist, what you make right now, WILL DRASTICALLY DECREASE. Not only will your pay decrease, but your workload also, because I will be going after all the work I can get, we all have families to feed.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

CraigV said:


> Hey, is Lodi Modern Bakery still around? .


I used to live around the corner from there - they closed up years ago sadly. I have never had a hard roll anywhere near as good as those.


----------



## Sunny 1 (May 11, 2012)

I'm not asking those guys anything. They were very hostile while they were here and acted as if they wanted to attack the GC. They certainly didn't appear to have come in peace


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

eejack said:


> I used to live around the corner from there - they closed up years ago sadly. I have never had a hard roll anywhere near as good as those.


Truth.

Oh that sucks. I grew up in Wood-Ridge, and Mills Bakery was my first "real" job. They got their rolls from Lodi MB. They (Mills) also made a little raspberry macaroon thing (it fit in a cupcake tin) that was awesome and it pisses me off that I never got a recipe...in the 40 years since I've never seen them anywhere else or figured out how to make them.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

:sleeping::sleeping::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

CraigV said:


> Did you read the rest of my post? My point is that the pendulum has swung the other way, and we have companies that are cash-rich but won't hire anyone, wages that have stagnated, workers that are disgusted but have literally no recourse. We're back to the 1800's. Yay.
> 
> Balance was the point.


Oh we're in the makings of another guiled age Craig

anyone who's paying attention _gets_ that

the free traitors have won , and the unions LET them 

~CS~


----------



## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Sunny 1 said:


> Can't we all just get along smh


 
So are those electricians down there or other trades?


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Oh we're in the makings of another guiled age Craig
> 
> anyone who's paying attention _gets_ that
> 
> ...


Was a lot more than just unions, and we both know that.


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

I know lot of people like to frame debates in terms of what they believe is "right" or "wrong" but there are other factors involved, namely money and power. In a nonunion environment, the employer has a near monopoly of power. They can dictate what wages to pay and can terminate anyone that threatens the power they have over their enterprise. In a unionized business the businesses have to (and are sometimes forced to) share power with another entity -- the workers' union -- which is typically represented by union officials elected by rank-and-file union members. The business owner-entity now has to contend with the united worker-entity, whereas before it was just the business-owner vs the individual worker; companies therefore have less money (workers net significantly more) and less power (business do not have complete power over whom they can hire or fire).

There is also a lot of propaganda involved on both sides. Anti unionists are aligned with wealthy business owners, republicans. Unionists are typically aligned with democrats. These political parties have more on their agenda than labor and the existence or non-existence of unions. The political parties are influenced by and also influence the pro and anti unionists. They have a lot to gain or lose and a lot of money is spent on propaganda that is meant to sway the uninformed one way or the other. 

There are good and bad sides to both unionists and nonunionists--that does exist--but There is also a lot of stuff getting minimalized or blown out of proportion. 

That's just how I see the issue. There are things that I don't completely understand--like 2 gate systems. But I do know that a lot of small ecs are nonunion -- probably most, and a lot of the larger contractors are union. I can think of one right now that is not only union but also deeply republican.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Sunny 1 said:


> I'm not asking those guys anything. They were very hostile while they were here and acted as if they wanted to attack the GC. They certainly didn't appear to have come in peace


Of course they were hostile. That's exactly why they are there, to harass non followers.


I can say with 100 percent certainty this is NOT why they are there.....



eejack said:


> It is probably an informational picket, set up to make folks aware of the hazardous nature of that job site.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Of course they were hostile. That's exactly why they are there, to harass non followers.


Scott, it is just informational, there is no harassment or blocking being done at all.








BTW, Brother Noah broke into my home and has a gun to my head. :laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

uconduit said:


> . In a nonunion environment, the employer has a near monopoly of power. They can dictate what wages to pay and can terminate anyone that threatens the power they have over their enterprise.


Hogwash. 
Employees have the power to up and quit whenever they want, and have the power to find any job, in any field they want to, whenever they want.
Also, try running a business in whch you pay people squat, and tell us how that works out for you. Any employer will tell you, you have to spend good money finding the best people you can. You have to spend a bunch of money training them, and then they leave.....


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> Of course they were hostile. That's exactly why they are there, to harass non followers.
> 
> 
> I can say with 100 percent certainty this is NOT why they are there.....


Actually you can say nothing of the sort. 

The person who posted the pics didn't tell us anything about where, when, what they are about. He could have taken old images from a party and posted them for all we know.

Since you are a rabid anti-union thug your assumptions are colored as such, when in fact this may not even be union construction workers picketing a current worksite.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Sunny 1 said:


> I'm not asking those guys anything. They were very hostile while they were here and acted as if they wanted to attack the GC. They certainly didn't appear to have come in peace


Well, then at least tell us when and where and the details.


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Businesses compete with other businesses for both business (clients) and resources (employees). An efficient business will pay just enough to retain the workers they need to operate, nothing more. If they pay workers "too much" they lose competitive advantage with businesses they compete against. If they pay "too little" the workers will search for better opportunities and the company may become uncompetitive for lack of having enough effective workers to complete their tasks. That's how businesses that dictate wages set wages in a competitive environment: by striving for that least costly rate.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

eejack said:


> Actually you can say nothing of the sort.
> 
> The person who posted the pics didn't tell us anything about where, when, what they are about. He could have taken old images from a party and posted them for all we know.


Yet you certainly had plenty to say. :whistling2:




eejack said:


> Since you are a rabid anti-union thug your assumptions are colored as such, when in fact this may not even be union construction workers picketing a current worksite.


Thug??? :laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

uconduit said:


> Business compete with other business for both business (clients) and resources (employees). An efficient business will pay just enough to retain the workers they need to operate, nothing more. If they pay workers "too much" they lose competitive advantage with businesses they compete against. If they pay "too little" the workers will search for better opportunities and the company may become uncompetitive for lack of having enough effective workers to complete their tasks. That's how businesses that dictate wages set wages in a competitive environment: by striving for that least costly rate.



Thanks for the lesson ..... :laughing:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

CraigV said:


> Was a lot more than just unions, and we both know that.


There's a long history Craig, but to analogize, the union leaders were tanning on the updecks of the Titanic , unbothered by the comotion below.....

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

uconduit said:


> There is also a lot of propaganda involved on both sides. Anti unionists are aligned with wealthy business owners, republicans. *Unionists are typically aligned with democrats.* These political parties have more on their agenda than labor and the existence or non-existence of unions. The political parties are influenced by and also influence the pro and anti unionists. They have a lot to gain or lose and a lot of money is spent on propaganda that is meant to sway the uninformed one way or the other.
> 
> .


 
While all the lewinsky shenanginas occurred, Clinton signed nafta. This was probably the biggest blow to domestic labor , and by proxy unions , in the last century......

~CS~


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Sunny 1 said:


> Can't we all just get along smh


Would you feel better if people were picketing civil rights, saving the whales or something else?
If something happens in your own back yard that could drastically cause your standard of living to erode would you do something about it or bend over to just get along?
People have a right to assemble.
I don't see/ can't see a problem.
BTW, this doesn't happen much in China or Cuba does it.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> While all the lewinsky shenanginas occurred, Clinton signed nafta. This was probably the biggest blow to domestic labor , and by proxy unions , in the last century......
> 
> ~CS~


Steve,
I thought you were an informed person.
Do you know the history of NAFTA?
Where it came from?
Who designed it?

Doesn't appear so...


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

They should focus more on unlicensed electrical work.
In a purely free market a qualified individual can do very well working for themselves, or for a contractor.
While I can appreciate the unions for the good they have done, the gluttony of the uppers have outweighed the support of the people who they are supposed to help. 
I support the workers but I also realize that the contractor has to make a profit. No profit means, means no work. The worker I support the most is myself. I've diversified my knowledge and became an asset. And I am compensated fairly. 
Anybody can do this. This particular economy happens to be a buyers market, and the contractors are the buyers.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> While all the lewinsky shenanginas occurred, Clinton signed nafta. This was probably the biggest blow to domestic labor , and by proxy unions , in the last century......
> 
> ~CS~


Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. *U.S. President George H. W. Bush,* Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.
*Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office* in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

It can't be too bad, I don't see the inflatable rat!!:laughing::laughing: But if they bring it in..........


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> Thug??? :laughing:


Hey, it seems appropriate considering your belligerent and hostile tones. 

Though...considering you wish for death before the warm embrace of collective bargaining - maybe zealot would be more appropriate.:thumbsup:


----------



## halfamp (Jul 16, 2012)

Looks to me like they are sitting idle, not working. Who has the time on their hands to not earn a day's pay to harass someone else? Lame

And eejack, you are by far the lamest. You are like a union propaganda monkey spouting the same old bull, not convincing anyone of anything. Broken record, give it up already


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

halfamp said:


> Looks to me like they are sitting idle, not working. Who has the time on their hands to not earn a day's pay to harass someone else? Lame
> 
> And eejack, you are by far the lamest. You are like a union propaganda monkey spouting the same old bull, not convincing anyone of anything. Broken record, give it up already


Same goes to BBQ, electricmamscott, mcclary, and the rest of the non union propaganda spewers. One of these days they'll take off their tin foil hats and see the light. Don't think their paranoid union is gonna be mean to us remarks are winning anyone over. Don't see why anyone argues these pointless arguments on here. Just makes these guys look like idiots.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

halfamp said:


> Looks to me like they are sitting idle, not working. Who has the time on their hands to not earn a day's pay to harass someone else? Lame
> 
> And eejack, you are by far the lamest. You are like a union propaganda monkey spouting the same old bull, not convincing anyone of anything. Broken record, give it up already


I'm honored. I am the lamest!:thumbsup:

Thanks halfamp, members of the academy, without whom this moment would not be possible. I shall cherish this moment...always.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Our local had their annual Christmas party for the kids this past weekend. All the kids received gifts and got their picture taken with Santa.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

F**k this noise. I'm going to start pleding allegiance to this flag:


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

eejack said:


> I'm honored. I am the lamest!:thumbsup:
> 
> Thanks halfamp, members of the academy, without whom this moment would not be possible. I shall cherish this moment...always.


That right there is downright philosophical!! :laughing::laughing::laughing: And he's wrong!! You have convinced *ME* of something: You've convinced me you're a dedicated union electrician!! :laughing: A lame monkey! Not just any old monkey, a *LAME *monkey! Now that had to hurt!!:notworthy:


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> Our local had their annual Christmas party for the kids this past weekend. All the kids received gifts and got their picture taken with Santa.


Did you make sure Santa belonged to the BOS Brotherhood of Santa's??


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

halfamp said:


> Looks to me like they are sitting idle, not working. Who has the time on their hands to not earn a day's pay to harass someone else? Lame
> 
> And eejack, you are by far the lamest. You are like a union propaganda monkey spouting the same old bull, not convincing anyone of anything. Broken record, give it up already


 Walmart is non union, and yet over 80% of their workforce is on public assistance, yet people still seem to look down on unions. Walmart's owners are laughing all the way to the bank, literally. They hire people to figure the cheapest way to pay their employees, and give them just enough to survive. What percentage of their entire workforce do you think has company provided health insurance, below 10% is my guess?


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

360max said:


> Walmart is non union, and yet over 80% of their workforce is on public assistance, yet people still seem to look down on unions. Walmart's owners are laughing all the way to the bank, literally. They hire people to figure the cheapest way to pay their employees, and give them just enough to survive. What percentage of their entire workforce do you think has company provided health insurance, below 10% is my guess?


But, but, but they have their freedom, and don't have to pay dues. Surely they are happy, and have the right to work. 
You can't be saying our tax dollars, which pays their medical, is subsidizing Walmart? 
My God, I may apply for greeter when I retire, and work till I'm dead. Then I won't have to collect my entitlements.:laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

duplicate.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> One of these days they'll take off their tin foil hats and see the light.


FWIW

I think many of us here, have worked both sides of this fence, and removed those hats many years ago.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

360max said:


> Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. *U.S. President George H. W. Bush,* Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.
> *Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office* in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada.


So a Democrat had the chance to VETO Nafta, and did not

thanks for making my point 360.....

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

union347sparky said:


> Same goes to BBQ, electricmamscott, mcclary, and the rest of the non union propaganda spewers. One of these days they'll take off their tin foil hats and see the light. Don't think their paranoid union is gonna be mean to us remarks are winning anyone over. Don't see why anyone argues these pointless arguments on here. Just makes these guys look like idiots.


The biggest anti-union 'spewer' _ARE_ the unions 347, they took the concept of collective b_argaining_ , and turned it into short sighted collective _greed_

Google Free Trade & Unions, and this will become much clearer for you, much of what you'll find is really _'too little, too late'_

While America was literally being _sold out_ from under us, big labor was only concerned about it's _own _existence, s*cking up to the legislators _perpetrating_ it all....

In my not so humble opinion, the people who founded orginaized labor would _spit upon_ what it has become....

~CS~


----------



## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

uconduit said:


> I know lot of people like to frame debates in terms of what they believe is "right" or "wrong" but there are other factors involved, namely money and power. In a nonunion environment, the employer has a near monopoly of power. They can dictate what wages to pay and can terminate anyone that threatens the power they have over their enterprise. In a unionized business the businesses have to (and are sometimes forced to) share power with another entity -- the workers' union -- which is typically represented by union officials elected by rank-and-file union members. The business owner-entity now has to contend with the united worker-entity, whereas before it was just the business-owner vs the individual worker; companies therefore have less money (workers net significantly more) and less power (business do not have complete power over whom they can hire or fire).
> 
> There is also a lot of propaganda involved on both sides. Anti unionists are aligned with wealthy business owners, republicans. Unionists are typically aligned with democrats. These political parties have more on their agenda than labor and the existence or non-existence of unions. The political parties are influenced by and also influence the pro and anti unionists. They have a lot to gain or lose and a lot of money is spent on propaganda that is meant to sway the uninformed one way or the other.
> 
> ...


Very well explained!


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> Same goes to BBQ, electricmamscott, mcclary, and the rest of the non union propaganda spewers. One of these days they'll take off their tin foil hats and see the light. Don't think their paranoid union is gonna be mean to us remarks are winning anyone over. Don't see why anyone argues these pointless arguments on here. Just makes these guys look like idiots.


First off I am not arguing, I am simple stating my opinion, I don't expect it to really change anyone.

Second the union itself has made me what I am, I can't speak for how things are where you are but in this area the IBEW members, when in a group, are nothing but assholes. Many of them turn back into nice guys when one on one with them but I hate two faced folks so that does not win me over.

For the past 15 years or so I have worked for large merit shops working on mixed jobs with us often being the only merit shop on the site. This direct exposure to the union, the unions salts, the union attitudes, the union pickets, the union members sense of entitlement, have long since made me decide I could never join. I have had opportunity but I have integrity and am not about to push that aside to make a few more bucks. 

If you enjoy the union good for you, if you think it is perfect the way it is I find that sad.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> Our local had their annual Christmas party for the kids this past weekend. All the kids received gifts and got their picture taken with Santa.


Al Capone was also very charitable. Really he was, but that did not take the stink off him either. :laughing:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

360max said:


> Steve, it totally amazes me that you do not see the corrolation that exist between union and non union. If the unions do not exist, what you make right now, WILL DRASTICALLY DECREASE. Not only will your pay decrease, but your workload also, because I will be going after all the work I can get, we all have families to feed.


 

If the unions totally collapsed, ALL you would have is a bunch of unemployed, unemployable, overweight, slow workers, who can't work without someone else pointing fingers to guide them.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

erics37 said:


> F**k this noise. I'm going to start pleding allegiance to this flag:


Does this have to do with the SW Canada/ NW US that wants to be its own country?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> If the unions do not exist, what you make right now, WILL DRASTICALLY DECREASE. Not only will your pay decrease, but your workload also, because I will be going after all the work I can get, we all have families to feed.


Can you point to a post asking for the unions not to exist?

You will never find such a post from me. :no:

What I do wish for is the unions pulling their collective head out of their ass and stop this bull **** of inflatable rats, acting like children or thugs and fighting for things that are only going to hasten the decline of the unions. Such as protesting a work site just because it did not go union. Or standing in front of a restaurant construction site handing out fliers about how the restaurant had health code violations when the truth is they would not have said a word about the health code issues had the job gone union.

They just don't seem to get that in this media age the old ways only hurt them. 

On the other hand the local IBEW and the carpenters union have begun putting on radio and TV ads and those come across as very professional and I bet they are more effective than blocking traffic. They push the training and the large jobs they have completed on time etc.

Lets have more new ideas and leave the old thug crap behind.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If the unions totally collapsed, ALL you would have is a bunch of unemployed, unemployable, overweight, slow workers, who can't work without someone else pointing fingers to guide them.


So basically...you?


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

union347sparky said:


> Just makes these guys look like idiots.


 
I think you, eejack, brother noah look like idiots, and also treat others like idiots, while spewing the same old unrealistic union BS, while completley ignoring the upper management of the IBEW making $300-400,000 a year, all off of robots paying your dues even while you're not even working. You do not even realize that you are a trained monkey, spewing their politics for them, while making them rich. THAT's NOT FOR ME, I've worked union, and I would rather work somewhere that a useless worker can be fired, and a good worker can be promoted. EFF THE UNION. Continue on, monkey.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

eejack said:


> So basically...you?


 
I'm in top shape and can work circles around any useless union worker.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

360max said:


> Steve, it totally amazes me that you do not see the corrolation that exist between union and non union. .


 
Au contraire mon frere......the albatross around our necks is more than apparent....







~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I'm in top shape and can work circles around any useless union worker.


I'm old & ugly, and wager i can give any a good run.....:whistling2:

~CS~


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, unions have been around for a long time and need to shift into the new way of thinking but, the new ways are not what we learned in WWll. This was lost in one generation. The whole concept of we vs. me. The "we" has been long forgotten over the "me". 

Who is part of Generation Me? 


Generation Me is anyone born in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s. I mean it more as a description than a label like "GenX" or "GenY." It describes people who take it for granted that the self comes first. I'm a member of this generation myself, born in 1971.










How is Generation Me different from previous generations, especially from the "Me generation" of the 1970s? 


Baby Boomers were sometimes called the "Me Generation" in the 1970s, but this was a premature and brief label: Boomers did not discover the self until young adulthood, and even then did everything in groups, from protests to seminars like est. Generation Me has never known a world that put duty before self, and believes that the needs of the individual should come first. This is not the same thing as being selfish – it is captured, instead, in the phrases we so often hear: "Be yourself," "Believe in yourself," "You must love yourself before you can love someone else." These are some of our culture's most deeply entrenched beliefs, and Generation Me has grown up hearing them whispered in our ears like the subliminally conditioned children in Aldous Huxley's _Brave New World_.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I think you, eejack, brother noah look like idiots, and also treat others like idiots, while spewing the same old unrealistic union BS, while completley ignoring the upper management of the IBEW making $300-400,000 a year,


I think you will find that upper managers are paid about $1 for every person under them. Some a little more some less but, you can usually measure the size of the organizations compensation using this rule of thumb.
These guys manage ungodly amounts of money and are severely accountable for every penny. More so than any bank or fund manager.

I wont comment more on this thread unless I find another outrageous line of BS that needs correcting.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jrannis said:


> I think you will find that upper managers are paid about $1 for every person under them. Some a little more some less but, you can usually measure the size of the organizations compensation using this rule of thumb.
> These guys manage ungodly amounts of money and are severely accountable for every penny. More so than any bank or fund manager.
> 
> I wont comment more on this thread unless I find another outrageous line of BS that needs correcting.


You call that a correction??? Pfffttt....


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

eejack said:


> Hey, it seems appropriate considering your belligerent and hostile tones.


Oh come on now, do I look like a thug?? :laughing:


If my wife wasn't afraid of getting her camera (or face) smashed she would have taken a picture of the actual thugs just out of view.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You are standing in front of what is legal harassment i would, as the biz owner, confront in court, if not with a pin Scott....~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> > Yes, unions have been around for a long time and need to shift into the new way of thinking but, the new ways are not what we learned in WWll. This was lost in one generation. The whole concept of we vs. me. The "we" has been long forgotten over the "me".
> 
> 
> agreed jrannis, but the time to adapt is questionable now....
> ...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

etta >

i started in the workforce when you were born Jrannis

and while age is nothing to brag about, i have been witness to the unions slow and painful demise since that time

the sadest part is it's mainly by thier own hand....

~CS~


----------



## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Here you go Scott, your own piss on inflatable rats sticker.


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

347sparky said:


> Here you go Scott, your own piss on inflatable rats sticker.


I had one on my old van lol.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

347sparky said:


> Here you go Scott, your own piss on inflatable rats sticker.



No rats?


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I think you, eejack, brother noah look like idiots, and also treat others like idiots, while spewing the same old unrealistic union BS, while completley ignoring the upper management of the IBEW making $300-400,000 a year, all off of robots paying your dues even while you're not even working. You do not even realize that you are a trained monkey, spewing their politics for them, while making them rich. THAT's NOT FOR ME, I've worked union, and I would rather work somewhere that a useless worker can be fired, and a good worker can be promoted. EFF THE UNION. Continue on, monkey.


A trained monkey huh? Bidding, running, and doing the work for myself is a trained monkey? I think you are like a jealous teenager who got rejected by the high school cheerleader. Therefore you hate all cheerleaders. I have cleaned up after rat droppings for most of my career. Fixing all the schools they have screwed up with a crew of one licensed guy and 25 immigrant workers. Shunt trips not made up, loose bolt on breakers, not made up boxes, mc pushed through pipe, and so much more. Here in Iowa non union shows no sign of training or decent hiring habits. Non union corners the housing market here and the can keep that. Any second year can rope a house it's brainless. It might be different where you live and if it is I'm glad I don't live there. My local doesn't strike and continues on a positive path of advertising. Is it perfect? No. They make it extremely difficult to run a small shop. But we're managing and making money. I'm proud of my education and the work I put out. I can't say the rats around here can say the same. So eff non union and the workers who know no better because they have never been trained except do what the one licensed guy says.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Oh come on now, do I look like a thug?? :laughing:
> ..........


Why, yes you do. That man is obviously protecting his wife and steering her away from you. She refuses to make eye contact with you. Even strangers fear you. :laughing:


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> The biggest anti-union 'spewer' _ARE_ the unions 347, they took the concept of collective b_argaining_ , and turned it into short sighted collective _greed_
> ...


I'm sorry but both sides have to take the blame for that. The contract cannot exist without signatures from both labor and management. 
I do agree that in many cases management gave up far more than they should have, but that is not the fault of the unions for asking for it.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

360max said:


> ...you forgot to post, *'fighting the good fight for all workers, worldwide'*


If that was the case.. why are so many Union members dumping 'organized labor"...:blink::blink:


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

B4T said:


> If that was the case.. why are so many Union members dumping 'organized labor"...:blink::blink:


 NYS is a union state


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

The hourly pay rate for union electricians in NYC is around $50/hour (in the envelope), $100 including benefits. Now, go on craigslist and find a non union electrical contractor and see what he is offering for an hourly rate, its a joke when compared to the cost of living in the city. Non union owners pocketing the difference for themselves.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

B4T said:


> If that was the case.. why are so many Union members dumping 'organized labor"...:blink::blink:


local 3 has a waiting list


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> Non union owners pocketing the difference for themselves.


This is purely BS, it is still a bid type industry, the owners have the same limitations as union shop owners. 

I would also be surprised if a union shop owner lives any tighter than a merit shop owner.


----------



## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If the unions totally collapsed, ALL you would have is a bunch of unemployed, unemployable, overweight, slow workers, who can't work without someone else pointing fingers to guide them.


^ LOL BEGIN RANT NOW
I worked Non Union for 4 Years and I got tired of the same bull**** not getting paid because some greedy contractor cant afford to pay me more than 15 bucks an hour running a huge million dollar commercial job. And running around with my choke out trying to get things done super fast in fear of losing my job posing safety risks to myself and coworkers and that's how it was for every contractor on jobs non union plumbers tin knockers, everyone is running around like an asshole how fast can I be maybe I"LL FINALLY MAKE MORE THAN 15 BUCKS AN HOUR IF I GET THIS DONE FAST" 

Funny part is I guarantee I'm faster than you, younger than you and more employable than you. Just because I'm Union I'm labeled a Jerk off lazy Piece of ****? I'm sick of all the union bull****, you wonder why we treat you like **** because you always got something smart to say, because deep down inside your mad. HA I'd run circles around you and still have time to fix your mistakes. Funniest part is I'm only a 3rd year apprentice now. And no one is holding my hand, I'm handed the print here you go get it done. If were all lazy ****s how does my boss make money? LOL How does he stay In business?

I think all you Union haters need to stop believing the internet and what you read in papers which are someones opinion because none of you know how the union works how dues work any of it. You think you do but you don't. Just like the last guy I talked to at work Chevrolet service manager at a dealership. "**** the IBEW there horrible there bad electricians, man you do such nice work you guys are really getting this **** done" Then I told the guy I was a Union Electrician, he practically **** his pants. Told me I was dumb I would never have a pension that they'll come and break my kneecaps if I don't pay dues that they take over half your check in dues. I couldn't control myself from laughing because the guy was so wrong. Sad thing is were just targeted by union busters who feed anyone any kind of bs to get rid of the only thing that keeps middle class jobs around.
Anyone can edit a video clip or write a paper and quote someone.


mcclary's electrical said:


> If the unions totally collapsed, the future electricans in this trade would be a bunch of unemployable, overweight, slow workers, who can't work without someone else pointing fingers to guide them.


 ^ just like that.

Cause the best part when I was non union the only guy who really knew what the **** he was doing was the foreman. The rest of them didn't have a clue besides blacks go on gold whites go on silver.


----------



## devosf (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm a union electrician and contractor and from what I saw going on in Michigan today made me sick and ashamed. My so called "brothers" we're assaulting innocent people because they dared to voice an opposing opinion. They looked like unhinged goons. That is not what I'm about. Seriously thinking about leaving the IBEW.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

BBQ said:


> This is purely BS, it is still a bid type industry, the owners have the same limitations as union shop owners. ...


 Around here there is a much greater difference between the pay package of the union and non-union workers than there is between the labor rates of the union and non-union contractors. If that difference is not going to the company owner, where is it going?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

360max said:


> NYS is a union state


I'm not talking about NYS... I think there are (34) other states that kicked the union out... 

If having a Union was such a good thing.. why did the other states revolt??


----------



## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

B4T said:


> I'm not talking about NYS... I think there are (34) other states that kicked the union out...
> 
> If having a Union was such a good thing.. why did the other states revolt??


Republican controlled state?! Or maybe anti Union people were in office? Wonder why Florida isn't union? Oh yeah right to work?! Oh wait republican state?! shall I keep naming states? Michigan decided to push this right to work issue now because they have majority until January 1 when all the lame ducks leave and some democrats take their seats.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So Nasty, after you've worked all that nasty out, enlighten us as to what your solution would be..?

~CS~


----------



## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Nastyniz said:


> _Bunch of union bullsh!t_



You're attitude is the kind that gives the union a bad name.

Some of us "union haters" don't have to believe what we've read online, we've lived it and dealt with the union harassment and bs first hand.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Around here there is a much greater difference between the pay package of the union and non-union workers than there is between the labor rates of the union and non-union contractors. If that difference is not going to the company owner, where is it going?


It is simple, our bids are less, that is why the GCs will take us on even knowing it will cause union issues / pickets etc.

There are certain cites around me that if we do a job in them their will be pickets, almost every time. Generally leading to a two gate system.

Don't get me wrong, the company owners certainly live well, but so do the owners of equal volume union shops.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Would a pinkerton by any other name smell as sweet?........~CS~


----------



## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> So Nasty, after you've worked all that nasty out, enlighten us as to what your solution would be..?
> 
> ~CS~


 Their is no solution Both sides will have their own opinion. And people will be to stubborn to believe the other party. I know both sides. and I don't take the union for granted because of it. Hey CS I don't think your a bad guy becuase your a non union contractor, maybe you pay your employees fair, maybe you do care about quality work. Maybe you have safety meetings with your employees, I don't know you. I just know in NJ the open shops pay scale is horrible and their is virtually no training and importantly safety training. Where as the union 5 years of schooling, ranging from basic ohms law, a.c theory transformers and tons more of subjects. Why do we feel were entitled to that pay because were highly trained. The electrical trade in all forms is important we need it. Why does a lawyer get paid 200 dollars an hour? Isn't he overpaid? Or a a graphic designer $250.
Everyone would be making more money union non union if these corrupt contractors weren't coming in using un trained un licensed immigrant workers. Driving down the market prices. A Union contractor or Merit shop or any business cant compete with those prices those guys throw out. Everyone is in a giant hurry in construction to drive there prices down more Same with other kinds of companys you have these guys on the top of wall street or the CEOs of company's make record profits and the worker gets less. The unions aren't doing this, the American people are letting it happen. Grown men cant be hired because there age is discriminated against. Because a young inexperienced man who's cheaper is better. All company's just wanna cut labor prices. Keep cutting the prices. Wheres the middle class go? People say we dont need unions sadly they don't see see all the corrupt **** going on at the top.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Nastyniz said:


> I think all you Union haters need to stop believing the internet and what you read in papers which are someones opinion because none of you know how the union works how dues work any of it. You think you do but you don't. J


Nice try, but I have many years of experience working with union contractors.:laughing:

So no, I do not know how it works _inside_ the union but I do have first hand experience with how they work with others in my area. 

.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> *This is purely BS*, it is still a bid type industry, the *owners have the same limitations* as union shop owners.
> 
> I would also be surprised if a union shop owner lives any tighter than a merit shop owner.


*if its not a prevailing rate job*, the union employee still gets rate, so its not BS


----------



## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Nice try, but I have many years of experience working with union contractors.:laughing:
> 
> So no, I do not know how it works _inside_ the union but I do have first hand experience with how they work with others in my area.
> 
> .


I'm in NJ not Massachusetts. I'm not a representative for everyone. I just know in my area their are good guys who work hard for their company's. All over the world you will find lazy messed up people everywhere union or non union. Not everyone in the world hits it hard 24 hours a day everyday like a robot. Human beings have brains and personality's. Some people work harder than others. Some people constantly slack and have no drive in life. I don't care what you think I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just sick of the target on my back just cause my shirt says IBEW makes me lazy. I work hard for my boss everyday, and so does everyone else in my company. A small contractor, who is 2 months behind on our benefits right now, but we still come to work to make the man money, because we know its hard for small contractors right now because they cant just bid jobs to keep their guys working with no profit in return.


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

BBQ said:


> It is simple, our bids are less, that is why the GCs will take us on even knowing it will cause union issues / pickets etc.
> .



Lol. Around here I get hired after non unions win the bid and complete the job late to fix all the f-ups and loose ends they leave. I can almost count on a call 3 months after completion date when problems start showing up.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

360max said:


> *if its not a prevailing rate job*, the union employee still gets rate, so its not BS


and if it IS a prevailing rate job, one can bargain for more than it

i did , can you say that?

~CS~


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> and if it IS a prevailing rate job, one can bargain for more than it
> 
> i did , can you say that?
> 
> ~CS~


No, I'm content with what I make and can live relatively comfortable, and not have to worry about having a retirement plan and pension after working for 40 years. Can the same be said about all non union?


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Non union or union, we all need to feed our families. Obviously each has their own niche in the trade that the other is not going to be able to do.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

360max said:


> No, I'm content with what I make and can live relatively comfortable, and not have to worry about having a retirement plan and pension after working for 40 years. Can the same be said about all non union?


To insist on some future retirement plan's viability is false security 360

i think the world has shown us enough examples to make _that_ point

But inasmuch as_ you_ feel secure in your union position, i feel free as a pirate EC ..........that is , _sadly_, a freedom you'll never realize.....

~CS~


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

360max said:


> Non union or union, we all need to feed our families. Obviously each has their own niche in the trade that the other is not going to be able to do.


According to the anti-union pukes - they can do it all, do it better, do it cheaper, smell great doing it.

Yet, every time one of these threads come up, they are the ones talking the biggest crap, making the biggest assumptions and generally making the biggest asses out of themselves. 6+ pages of whargabll all because a troll posted two unverified pics.

I find it comical. 

I find it sad I let myself get sucked in by ignorant trolls, but I do find it comical.

Let them enjoy their union hating circle jerk - we have real work to do.:thumbsup:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Nastyniz said:


> ^ LOL BEGIN RANT NOW
> I worked Non Union for 4 Years and I got tired of the same bull**** not getting paid because some greedy contractor cant afford to pay me more than 15 bucks an hour running a huge million dollar commercial job. And running around with my choke out trying to get things done super fast in fear of losing my job posing safety risks to myself and coworkers and that's how it was for every contractor on jobs non union plumbers tin knockers, everyone is running around like an asshole how fast can I be maybe I"LL FINALLY MAKE MORE THAN 15 BUCKS AN HOUR IF I GET THIS DONE FAST"
> 
> Funny part is I guarantee I'm faster than you, younger than you and more employable than you. Just because I'm Union I'm labeled a Jerk off lazy Piece of ****? I'm sick of all the union bull****, you wonder why we treat you like **** because you always got something smart to say, because deep down inside your mad. HA I'd run circles around you and still have time to fix your mistakes. Funniest part is I'm only a 3rd year apprentice now. And no one is holding my hand, I'm handed the print here you go get it done. If were all lazy ****s how does my boss make money? LOL How does he stay In business?
> ...


 
Well, I hope you read prints better than you read typing. Once again, I worked union. I quit. I have never been rejected by the union. I know the things I know from first hand experience, not internet repeatings. Get over it, you're a union puppet, brainwashed into thinking you are better. I, on the other hand, actually know better.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

union347sparky said:


> A trained monkey huh? Bidding, running, and doing the work for myself is a trained monkey? I think you are like a jealous teenager who got rejected by the high school cheerleader. Therefore you hate all cheerleaders. I have cleaned up after rat droppings for most of my career. Fixing all the schools they have screwed up with a crew of one licensed guy and 25 immigrant workers. Shunt trips not made up, loose bolt on breakers, not made up boxes, mc pushed through pipe, and so much more. Here in Iowa non union shows no sign of training or decent hiring habits. Non union corners the housing market here and the can keep that. Any second year can rope a house it's brainless. It might be different where you live and if it is I'm glad I don't live there. My local doesn't strike and continues on a positive path of advertising. Is it perfect? No. They make it extremely difficult to run a small shop. But we're managing and making money. I'm proud of my education and the work I put out. I can't say the rats around here can say the same. So eff non union and the workers who know no better because they have never been trained except do what the one licensed guy says.


 
Yes, you're a trained monkey spewing this "union is better" crap without even questioning your chain of command and corrupt leaders. You're like a catholic nun who knows what the priest is doing, or a southern baptist who beats his wife and preaches on sundays.:blink:


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yes, you're a trained monkey spewing this "union is better" crap without even questioning your chain of command and corrupt leaders. You're like a catholic nun who knows what the priest is doing, or a southern baptist who beats his wife and preaches on sundays.:blink:


You're not very good at making friends , are you , lol ? I do agree with some of what you say . I've been in the trade 20 years . 2/3 of that time I worked for a non-union open shop that did about 95% prevailing wage work . Most of his work was schools , new and Reno , but every one went to overtime , so it could open in September . I haven't seen that kind of steady work , or overtime since then . I've seen and worked with slugs and bums on both sides of the fence . The difference is , an open shop fires that person , the union may have a talk with him , but he ll still have a job , lol ! A couple summers ago I was foreman on a pretty large roof solar array . I needed manpower and I'd say 2/3 of what I got were any good and worth keeping ! The worst was a guy over 300 pounds who could barely climb the ladder to get up there , lol ! Not all " union guys " are monkeys or preprogrammed robots , but a faction are .


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yes, you're a trained monkey spewing this "union is better" crap without even questioning your chain of command and corrupt leaders. You're like a catholic nun who knows what the priest is doing, or a southern baptist who beats his wife and preaches on sundays.:blink:


So now I'm a wife beater? You are a big pile of rancid sh!t that someone cummed on aren't you. Maybe you should pull your head out of your arrogant ass. Did you even read my comment? Don't sound like you did. Maybe instead of being a brainwashed rat bastard you could see the other side of things. Go **** yourself.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> According to the anti-union pukes - they can do it all, do it better, do it cheaper, smell great doing it.


you forgot , we're _loved_ by the public......:whistling2:~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

union347sparky said:


> a brainwashed rat bastard .


that's a sig line! ~CS~


----------



## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

> The difference is , an open shop fires that person , the union may have a talk with him , but he ll still have a job


Not where I'm at. You work for the contractor not the union hall. Contractor hires and fires.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> you forgot , we're _loved_ by the businesses that can abuse us, pay us like crap, make us step and fetch, fire us at will, don't have to provide us with any benefits and threaten to replace us with day laborers yet we keep coming back because we feel so blessed just to have a job......:whistling2:~cs~


ftfy


----------

