# Licensing of "New to the Trade" Persons



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

wiz1997 said:


> A bit curious of how your area licenses " new to the trade" persons.
> 
> I see many posts stating you're not really an apprentice unless you are in a certified school, typically union sponsered.
> 
> ...


in lousiana, there is only a State Lic. no apprentice, no Jman
it is equivalent to a Master, and there is also a second test regarding the business end required for the State Lic.
the only out of state lic. they will allow is a Master and of course with reciprocity agreements with that state


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## jarrydee (Aug 24, 2019)

In Michigan you must have an apprentice license to do electrical work. You must be working under a master. MI. give out HUGE fines if you are caught unlicensed. You must attend school it you are union or non union to be able to get your apprentice license . SO you must get an apprentice license, which you can not do if you do not have a master you are working under and are attending school. Do that for 4 years and 8000 hours and you can test for jman. Do that for another 2 years and you can test for master, but you still can not pull permits, you must pass the elec. contractors test and get that license also. Michigan don't play around, they will fine you big time if you do work unlicensed.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Up here in BC we have qualified persons (certificate of qualification) or indentured (registered) apprentices. Apprenticeship is 6000hrs OTJ plus 40 weeks in school, full-time (10 weeks/year.) Alternatively, a challenge exam can be attenpted after 8340hrs. Master exam can be taken after a requisite course and 1yr as journeyman.

Union vs non-union is the same apprenticeship model. I went through when my IBEW local was sending their apprentices to the same regional vocational school as everyone else. Now I understand they do 1st and 2nd year in-house.

_*Licensing*_ is strictly a business/contractor coupon, and can be obtained with the Master credential. Both expire every 3 years.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Arizona does not license electricians, at all. Been in legislation 3 times I am aware of and nothing has been done. Arizona does license contractors, this requires minimum bond, insurance and workman's comp policies. This used to be an annual outlay for these three items of about 2 grand.
Expensive in my eyes if your not doing work. Arizona is a right to work state. 
Training is OJT, IBEW, the independant contractors association had a fed approved apprentice program. Then there are the paper mills who take money from people show them a book and when you graduate in a couple of years you know what they taught you. One I found actually taught pipe bending and wire pulling. They even had a board set up with 24 v for doing very basic push buttons. Which they called motor control. Never showed the relationship of the over loads on the starter to the protection of the motor. I applied as an instructor and by the time I had my walk through I was headed out the door. Students would have 6 grand invested and not really have a basis of what a contractor needed. 
You do need a license to work on an elevator, but not an over head crane.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Nevada doesn't license apprentices or journeymen but Reno and Vegas do. Both have bought the PSI 'you need us to license your electricians for safety sake.....licensed electricians always do perfect work, unlicensed hacks could cause thousands of buildings to burn down resulting in millions of lives lost'. 

I wonder how much money they had to payoff the city council members.........


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

New York State leaves licensing to local jurisdictions with varying degrees of qualification to operate as an electrical contractor. Wealthier towns here offer Residential and Master licenses, there is no apprentice license. Most towns and country in NYS require almost no qualifications beyond contractors insurance and workmans comp/comp exemption. All work must be inspected for it to be legal in a real estate transaction. Towns without building departments or license requirements have third party inspectors hold the standard.

To be a licensed electrical contractor in NYS means you've proven your working hours, passed the required exams, are a registered business, and possess all the necessary insurances that come with having employees. If you want to advertise that you are licensed to serve your entire county, you're maintaining several if not a dozen licenses annually or biannually.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

California sounds similar to Texas, anyone doing electrical work must be licensed whether you're union or open shop, apprentice, journeyman or contractor. However in addition to the 8000 on the job hours, you need (4) years of schooling. 

Of course this has lead to a lot of questionable outfits running online schooling with the only objective being to get you to pass your exam. Very little emphasis on theory. I did a non union program for 2 years before getting into the union apprenticeship, it's night and day difference.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Pa was city limited, no state wide elect license just a state contractor license.
If you could get insurance you were an electrician.

Cowboy


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

NJ has no requirement to be an apprentice or journeymen to work for an electrical contractor.

Maybe twenty years ago they started a state wide journeymen license, but it goes mostly unused. They were trying to make it mandatory (AP, JW or EC) to work for an EC, but it never happened. Everyone just goes for their EC license instead. One way to meet the requirement for the EC license was to have five years in the trade working for an EC. To test for Journeymen, you have to have so many hours of school. That wasn’t the case for an EC license up until recent. Now you need one year of school for the EC license.

The state has a ratio that goes unenforced. For every ten guys on a job performing electrical work, one must hold a Journeymen or EC license.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

HertzHound said:


> The state has a ratio that goes unenforced. *For every ten guys on a job performing electrical work, one must hold a Journeymen or EC license.*


Wow! That is quite the lopsided ratio. California is 1:1 and Oregon is 3:2. I can't imagine getting any kind of effective supervision with a 10:1.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

ZacharyBob said:


> Wow! That is quite the lopsided ratio. California is 1:1 and Oregon is 3:2. I can't imagine getting any kind of effective supervision with a 10:1.


Yeah, I’m not sure if any contractor could stay in buisiness with with ten knuckle heads and one skilled guy. But since it’s not mandatory to only employ apprentices or journeymen, a lot never go for a license. So you could have a guy that’s skilled beyond belief, but not have a license. A lot just get the EC license as proof of competence. I got mine for a plan B, and because I was tired of saying “no”, when people ask if I had a license. I was at least ten years into the trade before going for the license

We don’t have a master’s license. I think it was the 60s that they started requiring an EC license for going into buisiness. So our EC license is the master’s license. You can decide after you get the license whether you want to take the extra steps to get insurance, bond and buisiness permit/seal to go into buisiness. They add a “B” in the license number if you have the buisiness permit. I’m pretty sure they change the B to a C if it’s the second buisiness under the license. So if you reopen a buisiness, after closing the first, you get a C. Don’t hire an EC that has a Z in his license number 

Our local has a JW/apprentice ratio that goes between two to three JWs to one AP. Most of the time it’s higher than that. So you could have five JWs and one AP. You can’t have it the other way around. So no two or three apprentice’s to one JW.

I’m finishing a job now that had an agreement with the hall before it was bid, to go 1 to 1. Maybe it looks good on paper, not so good in the field. To many watching, not working. It could be the JW watching/supervising, or the AP watching/learning. Either way we went back to more normal ratios early on. We maybe have four weeks left, and it’s been 4:1 for the last two months.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

@HertzHound As an apprentice, I'd say this 10:1 ratio would be better applied by having 10 journeymen standing at the ready to fix all my mistakes.


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