# IBEW comes out against Obamacare



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

j_captain said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/12/electrical-workers-union-jumps-aboard-anti-obamaca/
> 
> it still confuses me why the union supported the bill to begin with. Those on the right did not want it. Even those on the left did not want it, they wanted single payer. Now unions are coming out against it. Exactly who even supports this thing?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

As you said, the only people who supported it knew nothing about it. They only supported it because they thought it would either be like universal healthcare or lead to universal healthcare.

Now that all those ignoramus actually open their eyes they are seeing how bad of a bill it truly is.

At this point I say fu(k it, switch to universal healthcare. I'd rather have that than this garbage ACA.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

No one even read it. WTF did they expect.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

The rules that cover how this thing is going to work are not even in the bill that was passed, they like rules for most things that congress passes, are written after the fact by some government agency.

If the rules stay as they are now it will be the biggest craft union busting bill ever.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The rules that cover how this thing is going to work are not even in the bill that was passed, they like rules for most things that congress passes, are written after the fact by some government agency.
> 
> If the rules stay as they are now it will be the biggest craft union busting bill ever.


Insurance companies support it I think. What could be better than forcing the whole population to buy insurance?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

jimmy21 said:


> Insurance companies support it I think. What could be better than forcing the whole population to buy insurance?


I don't think they are forcing everyone to buy insurance. From what I know they are taxing people who don't buy it and giving them medicaid. I may be wrong.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

It's not strictly enforced, the way they "make" you buy it is by taxing you around 350 the first year, then doubling every year afterwards from my understanding... In turn making it cheaper to buy insurance than having to comply with the taxes


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

9/10's of the union posters that frequent these shores were all for it when they were pushing it.

Now go outside , all of you and scream as loud as you can, "WHAT A DUMBASS I HAVE BEEN!!!!" 


Then come back inside and write Harry an apology.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

The issue is how the rules say it will treat the multi-employer heath & welfare plans. It will put any employer that is part a multi-employer plan at a huge competitive disadvantage. The unions were assured, at the time of passage, that the Obamacare would not have any effect on multi-employer plans.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

In other words, the lobbyists took the union $$$ on some backroom promise before any rules were written, and now they don't like the rules that were created

~CS~


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Does any other country in the world envy America's health care system?


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

uconduit said:


> Does any other country in the world envy America's health care system?


Soon , you'll be able to ask if any other country in the work envies America's anything ? We're well on our way to being a laughingstock to other decently run nations .


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The insurance cabal is laughing all the way to the bank(s), who are also laughing all the way to the Fed....~CS~


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> 9/10's of the union posters that frequent these shores were all for it when they were pushing it.
> 
> Now go outside , all of you and scream as loud as you can, "WHAT A DUMBASS I HAVE BEEN!!!!"
> 
> ...


I am still for it. 

I am sorry Harry, but as nice a fellow as you are, your ideas and viewpoints do not make sense and while your intentions are good, the data is bad. 

( I would go out and shout "WHAT A DUMBASS macmikeman HAS BEEN!!!!" but I like my neighbors ).

Feel better? :thumbup:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> In other words, the lobbyists took the union $$$ on some backroom promise before any rules were written, and now they don't like the rules that were created
> 
> ~CS~


Pretty much.:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

drumnut08 said:


> Soon , you'll be able to ask if any other country in the work envies America's anything ? We're well on our way to being a laughingstock to other decently run nations .


We are pretty much dumb asses anymore on the way we run this country.
(Or should I say the way big business runs this country)
(Nope, chnage that to the way 7 uber rich families run this country)


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes the rich control the country and as bad as that sounds imagine if this were Columbia where some rich guy could just kill half of the supreme court, and have to go to jail in a prison resort that he could leave whenever he wanted.

Even worse were the Communists like in that movie Dr. Zhivago where being rich was considered treason and everyone worried about being 'denounced' and sent to some Siberian prison to die.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

uconduit said:


> Yes the rich control the country and as bad as that sounds imagine if this were Columbia where some rich guy could just kill half of the supreme court, and have to go to jail in a prison resort that he could leave whenever he wanted.
> 
> Even worse were the Communists like in that movie Dr. Zhivago where being rich was considered treason and everyone worried about being 'denounced' and sent to some Siberian prison to die.


True. 

I just feel that "We, the people,......" has become "Us, the big 7...."


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Next Ed Hill will tell all the membership to join the "Tea Party".


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> I am still for it.



why would _anyone_ be for having corporatism force feed _anything_ to a consumer eejack??

~CS~


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Members of Congress and their staffs just figured out the new rules apply to them too...many staff members are threating to quit if they have to give up their current health care plans....as the rules stand now, they have to. Look for another special rule for them so they don't have to do what the rest of the country had to.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Members of Congress and their staffs just figured out the new rules apply to them too...many staff members are threating to quit if they have to give up their current health care plans....as the rules stand now, they have to. Look for another special rule for them so they don't have to do what the rest of the country had to.


Why would someone have to give up medical insurance?


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## Cat5Installer (Jul 19, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Why would someone have to give up medical insurance?


I believe Congress and staffers loose their Federal Employees Health Benefits and get pushed into an exchange... Or buy their own insurance...


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I don't see why unions would want to support a bill like this at all. Typically unions have good health insurance at a decent price. Supporting a bill that nullifies that as a perk seems stupid.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Jbowyer24 said:


> It's not strictly enforced, the way they "make" you buy it is by taxing you around 350 the first year, then doubling every year afterwards from my understanding... In turn making it cheaper to buy insurance than having to comply with the taxes


That's not a tax, that's a penalty. When you get caught for non-registration do you get taxed? No, you get fined. You're going to get fined if you don't buy insurance.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wendon said:


> That's not a tax, that's a penalty. When you get caught for non-registration do you get taxed? No, you get fined. You're going to get fined if you don't buy insurance.


No, SCOTUS said its a tax. That was the only way it could remain the law. But, it didn't originate in the House and all taxation bills must. So that is the next fight.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

Okay then fined lol it happens at tax time, and gets taken right out of your taxes that's where my mix up came. My mistake.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

Okay lol I retract my mistake!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> No, SCOTUS said its a tax. That was the only way it could remain the law. But, it didn't originate in the House and all taxation bills must. So that is the next fight.


If SCOTUS says it's a tax, it's a tax. If SCOTUS says it's an apple tree, even though it's got pears hanging on it, it's still an apple tree.:whistling2:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Jbowyer24 said:


> Okay then fined lol it happens at tax time, and gets taken right out of your taxes that's where my mix up came. My mistake.


:laughing::laughing: A tax is a tax is a tax!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

J_Captain said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/12/electrical-workers-union-jumps-aboard-anti-obamaca/
> 
> It still confuses me why the union supported the bill to begin with. Those on the Right did not want it. Even those on the Left did not want it, they wanted single payer. Now unions are coming out against it. Exactly who even supports this thing?


All of the well to do socialists on the left want it because it will not affect them.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

It's quite irrelevant what it is it all comes in the same fashion you get penalized taxed what ever for not having health insurance, which should be a complete personal choice. People who don't work get it for free and people who do get to pay for freeloaders and themselves as well. Let me pay for my family along with someone else's because I have a job and they don't. Complete and utter bull****. It's all making this country more and more government dependent by the day.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Jbowyer24 said:


> It's quite irrelevant what it is it all comes in the same fashion you get penalized taxed what ever for not having health insurance, which should be a complete personal choice. People who don't work get it for free and people who do get to pay for freeloaders and themselves as well. Let me pay for my family along with someone else's because I have a job and they don't. Complete and utter bull****. It's all making this country more and more take from the haves and give to the have nots by the day.


Don't forget where the government gets their money. I mean the actual money and not the borrowed stuff. We're on the supply side of supply side economics!!:thumbup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jbowyer24 said:


> It's quite irrelevant what it is it all comes in the same fashion you get penalized taxed what ever for not having health insurance, which should be a complete personal choice. People who don't work get it for free and people who do get to pay for freeloaders and themselves as well. Let me pay for my family along with someone else's because I have a job and they don't. Complete and utter bull****. It's all making this country more and more government dependent by the day.


I am not for the ACT, however, getting...or buying insurance should be a responsibility that a person should buy into just as car insurance is. If a person will not buy insurance then they should have to sign a form saying that if they get sick or injured they should be placed in a ditch until they pass..... but then, there are their families who can't buy it. In this case, the person who did not own up to their responsibility SHOULD be billed if their loved ones have to use the system.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

And they will be billed. Being without insurance doesn't excuse you from hospital bills. I just don't feel like I should be paying for someone else's family to have insurance, free of charge while they're also eating for free on food stamps and driving a BMW. That's the my take on the whole situation, they can penalize them at the end of the year, but it will only create a bigger hole of dependency. In turn, down the road they will develop some other sort of situation where tax payers have to pay for their penalties. It's a vicious circle.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

We're circling the drain!


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wendon said:


> We're circling the drain!


Maybe we're dropping through the trap.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)




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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> Maybe we're dropping through the trap.


Lets hope we make it out of this trap.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

is SCOTUS part of PUSA?


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Having lived universal health care all my life, I can't even imagine life any other way. Worrying about the costs when it comes to health and illness and risks of losing everything because of either? 

Why!? Because you think if everyone gets health care, it'll cost you more? It won't, and guess what, you're the working class.. you need it. 

The rich don't need it, they're rich. The poor don't need it, they're poor and qualify for free programs anyway. It's the people working and trying to stay in the middle class that need all the help.. Yet they're too scared they'll lose their socio-economic status if everyone gets health care? You've been tricked. :no:

ObamaCare sounds like crap, you guys should be fighting for universal.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

FastFokker said:


> Having lived universal health care all my life, I can't even imagine life any other way. Worrying about the costs when it comes to health and illness and risks of losing everything because of either?
> 
> Why!? Because you think if everyone gets health care, it'll cost you more? It won't, and guess what, you're the working class.. you need it.
> 
> ...


It is crap, written by the insurance industry and hung around our necks by the great thinkers on the left. I'm sure you're all so proud!


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

It's not about what will benefit the largest amount of Americans, it's all about what will benefit the largest amount of campaign contributors.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

backstay said:


> It is crap, written by the insurance industry and hung around our necks by the great thinkers on the left. I'm sure you're all so proud!


Just do what Canada does and everything will be fine. If its so terrible then why do so many have dual citizenship and come up here for medical care...

"We could never do that!.....But I need it..."


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Members of Congress and their staffs just figured out the new rules apply to them too...many staff members are threating to quit if they have to give up their current health care plans....as the rules stand now, they have to. Look for another special rule for them so they don't have to do what the rest of the country had to.



this seems the whole problem with a multitude of issues Don ~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> It is crap, written by the insurance industry and hung around our necks by the great thinkers on the left. I'm sure you're all so proud!


Really?
You like the system we have now?
How much is your health insurance costing you per month?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Aegis said:


> Just do what Canada does and everything will be fine. If its so terrible then why do so many have dual citizenship and come up here for medical care..."


Because it's free. Why are Canadian citizens coming down here when they need urgent care???


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wendon said:


> Because it's free. Why are Canadian citizens coming down here when they need urgent care???


They come down here on vacation and seem pretty healthy to me.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

More now, thanks to this. Before I could drop it if I had to. Now I'm forced to pay with no choice. If it is so good, why is the IBEW against it? Think for yourself for a change. Don't just spew the party line.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wendon said:


> Because it's free. Why are Canadian citizens coming down here when they need urgent care???


Why do people go from here to South America for boob jobs and dental work?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> More now, thanks to this. Before I could drop it if I had to. Now I'm forced to pay with no choice. If it is so good, why is the IBEW against it? Think for yourself for a change. Don't just spew the party line.


I'm not so sure you have all of the facts so its just kinda bar talk & trolling.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Really?
> You like the system we have now?
> How much is your health insurance costing you per month?


One thing isn't relevant to the other. Just because the system we have in place now doesn't work, it doesn't mean that any new system will be better. Things very well could get worse.

From what I've noticed, it seems like the people who support the ACA only do so because it's a change and they hope it's a change for the better. But I have not seen many people who actually like the ACA. Personally, I don't see much of any benefit. I'd much rather they just go full on universal healthcare than do this ACA crap.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> One thing isn't relevant to the other. Just because the system we have in place now doesn't work, it doesn't mean that any new system will be better. Things very well could get worse.
> 
> From what I've noticed, it seems like the people who support the ACA only do so because it's a change and they hope it's a change for the better. But I have not seen many people who actually like the ACA. Personally, I don't see much of any benefit. I'd much rather they just go full on universal healthcare than do this ACA crap.


I think you nailed it. Health care is broken, and we all just want the fix. Unfortunately, polictics are doing the "fixing", and we all know how that can turn out.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Why do people go from here to South America for boob jobs and dental work?


That's a no-brainer. It's cheap. It's cheap because there's no liability involved. Your teeth not the same color? Sorry. One boob bigger than the other? Plenty Slorry.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

wendon said:


> Because it's free. Why are Canadian citizens coming down here when they need urgent care???


Because the lines are shorter since Americans can't afford to be there.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HackWork said:


> > One thing isn't relevant to the other. Just because the system we have in place now doesn't work, it doesn't mean that any new system will be better. Things very well could get worse
> 
> 
> .
> ...


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

wendon said:


> Because it's free. Why are Canadian citizens coming down here when they need urgent care???


I have never ever heard of anyone going to the States for urgent care. If there's a big emergency you're treated immediately. If you have a little something on your toe you wait 20-30 minutes to get in.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Aegis said:


> I have never ever heard of anyone going to the States for urgent care. If there's a big emergency you're treated immediately. If you have a little something on your toe you wait 20-30 minutes to get in.


So you're saying there's no waiting line for bypass surgery etc.? A guy I know nearly died up there waiting and finally came to the states. Must be he was an exception


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wendon said:


> So you're saying there's no waiting line for bypass surgery etc.? A guy I know nearly died up there waiting and finally came to the states. Must be he was an exception


As was Natasha Richardson.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I have actually never heard (personally) of anyone going to the states for medical care, but of course people do. Some people have cash to burn and just want things done immediately. 

Our system puts everyone equal. Some elite don't like that, so they go to the nation that caters the rich and famous.



> Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies
> 
> Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings, and outpacing bankruptcies due to credit-card bills or unpaid mortgages, according to new data. And even having health insurance doesn't buffer consumers against financial hardship.


Get universal health care and you'll instantly drop 2 million bankruptcy's? Naaah. Lets talk about that one old unhealthy and impatient Canadian who had to go to America for bypass surgery because he didn't want to wait.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> I have actually never heard (personally) of anyone going to the states for medical care, but of course people do. Some people have cash to burn and just want things done immediately.
> 
> Our system puts everyone equal. Some elite don't like that, so they go to the nation that caters the rich and famous.
> 
> ...


How about we take away the power of the medical industry to bankrupt people....:yes::yes::yes::laughing:


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> How about we take away the power of the medical industry to bankrupt people....:yes::yes::yes::laughing:


Is that what the new system (ObamaCare) will do? I honestly don't know.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

FastFokker said:


> > I have actually never heard (personally) of anyone going to the states for medical care, but of course people do. Some people have cash to burn and just want things done immediately.
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the other way 'round with our geriatric tour buses stopping at Canadian pharmacies Fastone
> ...


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

CS, do we have cheaper drugs or something? I hadn't heard of Americans coming to Canada for pharmaceuticals.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> I have actually never heard (personally) of anyone going to the states for medical care, but of course people do. Some people have cash to burn and just want things done immediately.
> 
> Our system puts everyone equal. Some elite don't like that, so they go to the nation that caters the rich and famous.
> 
> ...


FIFY:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> Is that what the new system (ObamaCare) will do? I honestly don't know.


No,it re- enforces their power to do so.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

That aint cool. :no:

More people going broke and having their lives destroyed by bad luck, genetic issues or poor choices isn't right. While corporations get larger and richer by breaking the back of the middle class.

You all need to take care of each other.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I say f*ck the gov't solution. Let the market fix itself, and by the market, I mean the people, and by the people, I mean they need to organize *properly*.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

TGGT said:


> I say f*ck the gov't solution. Let the market fix itself, and by the market, I mean the people, and by the people, I mean they need to organize *properly*.


Like organize a government? :blink:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

FastFokker said:


> CS, do we have cheaper drugs or something? I hadn't heard of Americans coming to Canada for pharmaceuticals.


Yes you do, and we can get it all online
~CS~


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

FastFokker said:


> Like organize a government? :blink:


No like make use of the current laws to take advantage of trade unions. Unions have largely become a special interests group rather than a populous movement and are not in great standing with the general public.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Unions are a target for globalists 

That the unions are blind to this is beyond human comprehension.....


~CS~


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