# Southwire Hand Tools?



## HARRY304E

Voltage Hazard said:


> Went to a local Lowes store today, to see if the Knipex and ChannelLock's were still on sale. Was looking to pick up a few bargains. Well, in the middle of a bunch of empty hooks, was a Southwire 9-in-1 Screwdriver. Talked to the sales guy, and he said all the tools and meters are being replaced with the Southwire brand.
> 
> So, it looks like we will have yet another brand adding their name to the same Chinese tools.



Yup It's just a matter of switching labels.:no:


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## lj973gm

Southwire tools is Maxis tools. 

Website launches shortly it looks like. 

Our company has a bunch of their tuggers and knockout sets. 

Seems to be good quality but I do not know the cost of them to know how they really compare to other brands. 

http://www.maxis-tools.com/

http://southwiretools.com/


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## smacky623

I actually came to this site for the 1st time to look for something about this myself. I never liked Lowe's selection of anything electrical really (my local lowe's doesn't even carry Service Entrance Cable) but these tools seemed at least a little bit nicer that the junk they had before. At least price wise they are trying be comparable to Klein, the Linesmans had file teeth on the outer edge to remove burrs from cut EMT and a romex stripper was left out of the package (probably by a customer trying to steal it) and it felt very solid.


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## Deep Cover

smacky623 said:


> I actually came to this site for the 1st time to look for something about this myself. I never liked Lowe's selection of anything electrical really (my local lowe's doesn't even carry Service Entrance Cable) but these tools seemed at least a little bit nicer that the junk they had before. At least price wise they are trying be comparable to Klein, the Linesmans had file teeth on the outer edge to remove burrs from cut EMT and a romex stripper was left out of the package (probably by a customer trying to steal it) and it felt very solid.


You don't like Knipex?


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## smacky623

Deep Cover said:


> You don't like Knipex?


I haven't seen them at my Lowe's, just Kobalt, some channellock stuff and Greenlee screwdrivers. The Lowe's near me is hellbent on shoving Kobalt down your throat and I just don't like them. Their electrical section is literally half an empty wall and then the stuff I mentioned before lol. Also, electrical section at lowe's is only 2 aisles, 4 if you counting lighting, compared to the Home Depot near me which has I think 8 aisles for electrical (4 aisles, both front and back half of store). Maybe my lowes just sucks


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## robnj772

smacky623 said:


> I haven't seen them at my Lowe's, just Kobalt, some channellock stuff and Greenlee screwdrivers. The Lowe's near me is hellbent on shoving Kobalt down your throat and I just don't like them. Their electrical section is literally half an empty wall and then the stuff I mentioned before lol. Also, electrical section at lowe's is only 2 aisles, 4 if you counting lighting, compared to the Home Depot near me which has I think 8 aisles for electrical (4 aisles, both front and back half of store). Maybe my lowes just sucks


That because kobalt is owned and made by lowes.


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## nolabama

robnj772 said:


> That because kobalt is owned and made by lowes.


I thought they were owned by Snap-On. Originally the tools were blue point quality made in USA. 

They are junk now.


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## smacky623

robnj772 said:


> That because kobalt is owned and made by lowes.


Well, it's there 'house brand' made just for them, like Husky for Home Depot. I know Husky is made by Stanley (not in US anymore either) not sure who makes Kobalt now.


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## jefft110

I just saw the Southwire tools for the first time earlier today in the Lowes in the hillbilly mountain town that I'm visiting. I thought it was only because it was in a hillbilly mountain town.:001_huh:


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## heavysparky

Going to have to make a trip to lowes this weekend. I am curious how these tools look and fell


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## Voltage Hazard

Well, my store only had the 1 driver. Your store having more than that may be hit, or miss.


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## HackWork

Why do companies whore their good names out and turn it into a junk brand?


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## Deep Cover

Because they see money to be made. Who wouldn't want a romex stripper from a company that puts out romex?

Also keep in mind that Lowe's (in this case) targets the DIYers. DIYers are cheap M-er F-er's. Those people are not looking for the $40 pair of Knipex linemen's. Not to mention that the majority of people working in the field aren't looking for the top of the line tools either.


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## Voltage Hazard

Deep Cover said:


> Also keep in mind that Lowe's (in this case) targets the DIYers. DIYers are cheap M-er F-er's. Those people are not looking for the $40 pair of Knipex linemen's. Not to mention that the majority of people working in the field aren't looking for the top of the line tools either.


Then, I don't get this move by Lowe's. DIYers don't even know that there are tools for electricians. Why would they buy a Southwire driver for $14, when they can get a 12 set of Kobalts for $14?? The DIYer wouldn't even look for tools in electrical, or know they even exist there.


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## BBQ

lj973gm said:


> Southwire tools is Maxis tools.
> 
> Website launches shortly it looks like.
> 
> Our company has a bunch of their tuggers and knockout sets.
> 
> Seems to be good quality but I do not know the cost of them to know how they really compare to other brands.
> 
> http://www.maxis-tools.com/
> 
> http://southwiretools.com/


I doubt maxis is making screwdrivers and such.


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## wendon

Southwire hand tools and Homeline panels:thumbsup:


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## electricmalone

wendon said:


> Southwire hand tools and Homeline panels:thumbsup:


And carlon blue boxes, and smurf tube


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## kyler_dorsey

just purchase some Southwire screwdrivers and a pair of Southwire linemans just to give them a try and they feel solid and comparable to my Klein screwdrivers and linemans. cant wait to get back to work tomorrow and put them to the test.


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## nolabama

Just meters here. No hand tools yet.


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## JBC1

Where are they made?


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## Chevyman30571

just picked up the southwire marksman and southwire speedset. They are the exact same as the maxis except they are gold in color. Also they both have the maxis symbol on them.


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## onewirehookup

Back last year when I visited southwire we took a survey for them regarding hand tools. It was a market they wanted to move into


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## rockyw84

Made in China. Checked them out at the local Lowes tonight.


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## nolabama

rockyw84 said:


> Made in China. Checked them out at the local Lowes tonight.


You expected that didn't you....


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## rockyw84

Of course. I wouldn't expect anything else from Lowes.


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## wendon

rockyw84 said:


> Made in China. Checked them out at the local Lowes tonight.


Ah, when only the best will do..............:whistling2:


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## jeffmoss26

Great, now I 'have' to stop at Lowe's tonight on the way home. LOL


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## freeagnt54

Are there anymore pictures?


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## btharmy

kyler_dorsey said:


> just purchase some Southwire screwdrivers and a pair of Southwire linemans just to give them a try and they feel solid and comparable to my Klein screwdrivers and linemans. cant wait to get back to work tomorrow and put them to the test.


And you paid more for them than you would pay for a pair of klein or knipex tools of much better quality.  I saw a single Southwire insulated screwdriver that cost 2x what I paid for a set of 2 (straight and phillips) Ideal insulaated screwdrivers. :no: I noticed the southwire tools are not even listed as available on the lowes website that I can see anyway. I wonder why.


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## btharmy

I just contacted Southwire through their "contact us" link. I listed my concern as a product defect. I went on to explain someone was using their name and likeness to sell chinese knockoff tools at lowes. I eased their worries by informing them that the tools were so overpriced that nobody would pay that much for such inferior tools. It said someone would get back to me within 2 days. We'll see.


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## Jlarson

The pliers look just like Klein journeyman stuff. :laughing:


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## btharmy

I just got a call from Southwire about my email I sent yesterday. He left me a voicemail and wants to get my feedback on what I do and don't like about their new line of tools at lowes. I also got this email:

Mr. (My name removed),
I have received your email regarding the Southwire Electrician's Tool products you observed at your local Lowe's store. At your convenience, I would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about your concerns.

Please feel free to contact me at 770-xxx-xxxx. . Thank you.

Daniel J. Irvin
Southwire Company

Well see what happens.

I am open to suggestions. I can pass on any info you guys have for them.


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## Spunk#7

Would they consider American made products ?


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## barkerapprentice5272

As only a first year I picked up the meter set it has a digital multimeter, plug tester and sniffer in it. Haven't done enough with it to show the quality but has some cool features like easily replaced fuses for if one blows. If anything I'm sure it will be more beneficial than the Wiggins I've been using


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## Voltage Hazard

barkerapprentice5272 said:


> As only a first year I picked up the meter set it has a digital multimeter, plug tester and sniffer in it. Haven't done enough with it to show the quality but has some cool features like easily replaced fuses for if one blows. If anything I'm sure it will be more beneficial than the Wiggins I've been using


Good luck. I wouldn't even trust that meter to be a paperweight.


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## barkerapprentice5272

For $30 bucks I don't have much too lose and I've been curious to see the quality. Maybe not the greatest thing to take a chance on but what the hell


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## emayer32

Any update on southwire Im interested in what everyone thinks of the quality?


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## kyler_dorsey

emayer32 said:


> Any update on southwire Im interested in what everyone thinks of the quality?


Linemans I purchased about 6 months ago still holding up fine but as soon as they fail I'm going back to Klein.


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## [email protected]

It's all about MONEY ,, and There Biggest cut


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## 99cents

emayer32 said:


> Any update on southwire Im interested in what everyone thinks of the quality?


Why would you support a lumber yard pretending to be in the electrical business?


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## MTW

As I've said before, the real company that we should be blaming is Klein because they make the Southwire tools.


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## Budman121

And where do you get that information that Southside tools are made by Klein, careful with the slander.


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## chewy

Budman121 said:


> And where do you get that information that Southside tools are made by Klein, careful with the slander.


Side by side comparisons.


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## Wpgshocker

Budman121 said:


> And where do you get that information that Southside tools are made by Klein, careful with the slander.


 How many companies actually manufacture? Why would it matter if Klein, a company that is trying to make money, did something to make money? Oh no!

Lowes lost Klein to an exclusive deal with home depot. Lowes has southwire. That would be pretty smart of Klein to be their own competition.


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## bduerler

Wpgshocker said:


> How many companies actually manufacture? Why would it matter if Klein, a company that is trying to make money, did something to make money? Oh no! Lowes lost Klein to an exclusive deal with home depot. Lowes has southwire. That would be pretty smart of Klein to be their own competition.


I thought southwire was a maxis brand? But I guess that wouldn't matter if it wasn't manufactured by them would if?


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## Budman121

If Klein, started to import their core line of tools, I think the loyalty of true tradesman would boycott the line, and old Mathis Klein would turn over in his grave. I myself would not put the trust of my hands in a Chinese product.


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## LowZ

MTW said:


> As I've said before, the real company that we should be blaming is Klein because they make the Southwire tools.


Seriously? I'm no business expert but why would a company deliberately compete against itself? Makes no sense at all. Not to mention if you do the reserach you will see Klein left Lowes and is "exclusively" with Depot. Your comment suggests Depot would allow Klein to compete against themselves and their exclusive Depot contract...

Come on fellas, gotta be smarter than that.


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## chewy

LowZ said:


> Seriously? I'm no business expert but why would a company deliberately compete against itself? Makes no sense at all. Not to mention if you do the reserach you will see Klein left Lowes and is "exclusively" with Depot. Your comment suggests Depot would allow Klein to compete against themselves and their exclusive Depot contract...
> 
> Come on fellas, gotta be smarter than that.


Operate both companys at a "loss" maybe?


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## Budman121

In my opinion, the deal that Klein Tom left Lowes and opted for Home Depot,I got be driven by corporate profits, Southwire obviously gave Lowes a sweeter deal than Klein, due in part that all Southwire tools are Chinese made, and Klein refused to lower their prices to compete, I don't believe one theory, that Klein is competing with its self, by dual manufacturing or branding.


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## Big John

LowZ said:


> Seriously? I'm no business expert but why would a company deliberately compete against itself? Makes no sense at all. Not to mention if you do the reserach you will see Klein left Lowes and is "exclusively" with Depot. Your comment suggests Depot would allow Klein to compete against themselves and their exclusive Depot contract...


 While I agree it seems unlikely that Klein would agree to deal exclusively with HD and and then still cater to Lowes, it seems very likely to me that a company would sell a foreign made component under a different brand name: They could reduce quality and sacrifice the "made-in-America" edge without tarnishing their original brand, and because they haven't reduced the price, they have a much higher margin.

No matter which version someone buys, it's money in their pocket, so why not?


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## Budman121

I agree that $, basically drives all business decisions, and I'm sure that it happens more often than not, with out some inside privileged information, we will never know the real truth as to the why and wayfor, as far as side by side comparisons, patents have run out on designs years ago, I also have seen where Klein has tools that they import, but I'd is plainly labeled where they are manufactured.


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## Wpgshocker

LowZ said:


> Seriously? I'm no business expert but why would a company deliberately compete against itself? Makes no sense at all. Not to mention if you do the reserach you will see Klein left Lowes and is "exclusively" with Depot. Your comment suggests Depot would allow Klein to compete against themselves and their exclusive Depot contract... Come on fellas, gotta be smarter than that.


 I hate to break it to you, but it happens all the time. Electronics were notorious for it. Look at dewalt/Stanley/porter cable or Milwaukee/rigid/Ryobi. Often these brands are all in the same store. Home Depot practically has them all. How does that make sense? Because you are going to buy one of them, for different reasons, but they make money either way. Most people don't care. Do you really think that there are 20 plants spitting out hand tools? ODM's in china spit out 30 different brands from the same factory. 

http://www.toptul.com/style/frame/t...9&content_set=color_4&name_id=92173&rid=57828 looks like Greenlee!!

http://www.sinotools.com. You might recognize some of these tools! 

http://www.toty.com.tw/english/01_corporate_profile/07_history.html 

http://www.jepson-power-tool-koshin.com/product.php?mode=new 

http://use-our-tools.com/cgi-bin/productfn/pdt_product_lst.pl?PdtType=R&cSerialNum=2,75


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## Voltage Hazard

Well, since it looks like we have 2 camps here, I am in the "Southwire is not made by Klein" camp. Like it has been mentioned, Klein patents have ran out decades ago. They have been making pliers for 150 years, anyone can copy them now. If you are a Chinese company, and want in the US market, then you copy the leader. It would make sense they would copy Klein hand tools. What does not make sense is also copying the price.

Klein is obviously using UEI's Korea factory to make it's meters for them. These Southwire meters look to be exact copies of the Craftsman and Extech meters. Craftsman and Extech are made by the same company, so now they are making Southwire. If this was Klein doing this brand, the meters would be made in Korea, like their other meters are.

I have seen no evidence, posted by anyone, that these are Klein hand tools. Home Depot would not allow it. I agree with the poster that stated Home Depot has several power tools under different brands, all sold at Home Depot, and competing with each other. But, Home Depot gets all the sales, so they don't care.


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## freeagnt54

I was told that lowes dropped klein because they were having issues with Klein denying warranty claims.


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## robnj772

freeagnt54 said:


> I was told that lowes dropped klein because they were having issues with Klein denying warranty claims.


But lowes hasn't sold Klein in a very long time. Home cheapo sells Klein. Lowe's was selling knipex.


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## MTW

Voltage Hazard said:


> I have seen no evidence, posted by anyone, that these are Klein hand tools. Home Depot would not allow it.


First of all, why would Home Depot not allow it? Secondly, they are the Klein designs right down to every last detail. Klein is using their designs and producing them in China, and selling them under a different name for the same price as their regular line of tools. Sounds like they're pretty business savvy to me. :whistling2:


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## freeagnt54

robnj772 said:


> But lowes hasn't sold Klein in a very long time. Home cheapo sells Klein. Lowe's was selling knipex.


That's irrelevant. I was referring to the posts about klein leaving lowes to be exclusive with homedepot.


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## itsunclebill

I did some work for a guy that works for a local manufacturer. Seems they had set up with the Chinese to manufacture a product line for them. At some point in time after that the company started looking into the Asian market and found it flooded with their product with another name on it. Complaints about patents being compromised fell on deaf ears.

Seems it's standard practice to have production runs after the "day" shift leaves and more product is manufactured on the same equipment but not necessarily with the same quality of materials, and stuff that failed quality tests is salvaged out of the junk bin and used in production of the "second shift" items.

I bought several drills that looked just like the old Milwaukee mechanic's drill dirt cheap from a local tool supplier. Housings on one run were blue and on another were an off color red. Had the same mold marks as the Milwaukee but the innards were mixes of good and junk parts. The same store had stripper/crimpers that were exactly like Kleins but had a cheaper pivot - and a number of dead ringers for several brands of screwdrivers, and stuff that looked familiar (old style Snap-On ratchets, among others)

Hey, they copy EVERYTHING.


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## robnj772

freeagnt54 said:


> That's irrelevant. I was referring to the posts about klein leaving lowes to be exclusive with homedepot.


No it is relevant.

Klein wasn't in lowes to begin with .


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## dowmace

MTW said:


> First of all, why would Home Depot not allow it? Secondly, they are the Klein designs right down to every last detail. Klein is using their designs and producing them in China, and selling them under a different name for the same price as their regular line of tools. Sounds like they're pretty business savvy to me. :whistling2:



No they are not the same designs, I have a klein 11 in 1 and a southwire 11 in 1. The holding mechanism on them is entirely different, you can put the klein bits in the southwire but they are loose and the southwire will not fit in the klein because of it's odd tabs on the opposing sides of the bits. 

I may need to walk out to the service truck and get them for pictures. 

I bought one of the southwire screwdrivers in a pinch and it left me screwed when the bushing in the handle spun inside the handle on the first screw I tried to turn with it. Lowes did hand me a brand new one the next time I was there however.


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## Budman121

Someone mentioned in a previous post, about the Klein warranty claims, my local Electrical supply houses, that carry Klein have been supper hard in taking Klein in due to abuse, not of warranty abuse but face it when you snap the tip off of a 5/16 by 6" flat blade and expect a new one when you were you were using as a pry bar, it's pretty hard to expect an exchange, now do that with a Southwire tool and they probably will exchange no questions asked, because it's expected, and they don't require the store to return or at least keep forgetting a sales representative from the tool company. I will never deviate from Klein, they have never failed me, in my 45 year career.


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## bml215

Budman121 said:


> Someone mentioned in a previous post, about the Klein warranty claims, my local Electrical supply houses, that carry Klein have been supper hard in taking Klein in due to abuse, not of warranty abuse but face it when you snap the tip off of a 5/16 by 6" flat blade and expect a new one when you were you were using as a pry bar, it's pretty hard to expect an exchange, now do that with a Southwire tool and they probably will exchange no questions asked, because it's expected, and they don't require the store to return or at least keep forgetting a sales representative from the tool company. I will never deviate from Klein, they have never failed me, in my 45 year career.


I like Klein and buy everything from them, however I am looking at wera drivers simply because Klein's wear out with minimal use.


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## Rochsolid

bml215 said:


> I like Klein and buy everything from them, however I am looking at wera drivers simply because Klein's wear out with minimal use.


I've got a set of wera's and they hold up great! Glad I made the switch from Klein


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## MTW

dowmace said:


> No they are not the same designs, I have a klein 11 in 1 and a southwire 11 in 1.


Ok, so one tool is different. The pliers and strippers are perfectly identical.


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## LowZ

MTW said:


> First of all, why would Home Depot not allow it? Secondly, they are the Klein designs right down to every last detail. Klein is using their designs and producing them in China, and selling them under a different name for the same price as their regular line of tools. Sounds like they're pretty business savvy to me. :whistling2:


So let me get this straight. 

Theory#1: Klein pulls out of Lowe's and signs an exclusive deal with Depot. Then some years later Klein decides to partner with Southwire to make Chinese copies of their tools under the Southwire name to sell in Lowe's and violate their exclusive contract to compete with themselves in Depot. So now Klein competes with itself and pays Southwire to use their name. Seems like a brilliant plan and very logical. 

Or the more obvious and less complicated theory.

Theory#2: Southwire decides to get into the tool business to make even more money, takes the industry leader's products and sends them to China to be copied and rebranded Southwire to sell in Lowe's.


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## Wpgshocker

LowZ said:


> So let me get this straight. Theory#1: Klein pulls out of Lowe's and signs an exclusive deal with Depot. Then some years later Klein decides to partner with Southwire to make Chinese copies of their tools under the Southwire name to sell in Lowe's and violate their exclusive contract to compete with themselves in Depot. So now Klein competes with itself and pays Southwire to use their name. Seems like a brilliant plan and very logical. Or the more obvious and less complicated theory. Theory#2: Southwire decides to get into the tool business to make even more money, takes the industry leader's products and sends them to China to be copied and rebranded Southwire to sell in Lowe's.


Theory #1 is common practice today with electronics, tools, appliances and more. 
You are clueless if you think otherwise. It is commonplace for a company to sign an exclusive deal with a retailer for "brand name X" and another exclusive deal with another retailer for "brand name Y". Companies can't rely on exclusive deals to generate revenue, Poor advertising or in-store representation can murder a companies sales and they have no where to turn because they are locked into a deal.
This system of creating completion between retailers is a win-win for all parties. In the end, the manufacturer wins because no matter who you buy from, you buy their tools. Remember Pontiac / Chevy? How about Kenmore / Maytag / Whirlpool? Kenwood / JVC car audio? Kobalt / Craftsman? It happens all the time.

Ignorance is bliss. I am not saying Klein is doing it, but it would make perfect sense economically if they did.


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## LowZ

Wpgshocker said:


> Theory #1 is common practice today with electronics, tools, appliances and more. You are clueless if you think otherwise. It is commonplace for a company to sign an exclusive deal with a retailer for "brand name X" and another exclusive deal with another retailer for "brand name Y". Companies can't rely on exclusive deals to generate revenue, Poor advertising or in-store representation can murder a companies sales and they have no where to turn because they are locked into a deal. This system of creating completion between retailers is a win-win for all parties. In the end, the manufacturer wins because no matter who you buy from, you buy their tools. Remember Pontiac / Chevy? How about Kenmore / Maytag / Whirlpool? Kenwood / JVC car audio? Kobalt / Craftsman? It happens all the time. Ignorance is bliss. I am not saying Klein is doing it, but it would make perfect sense economically if they did.


But your example is referencing companies owned by one another or a larger holding group (or whatever they call it). Then yes, that would make sense. But nowhere can I find Klein owns Southwire. If that were the case there is no way Depot would allow that without suing Klein for breach of contract. The only way they wouldn't sue was if, as Voltage Hazard mentioned, Depot was getting all of the sales. In this case they are not.


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## Wpgshocker

LowZ said:


> But your example is referencing companies owned by one another or a larger holding group (or whatever they call it). Then yes, that would make sense. But nowhere can I find Klein owns Southwire. If that were the case there is no way Depot would allow that without suing Klein for breach of contract. The only way they wouldn't sue was if, as Voltage Hazard mentioned, Depot was getting all of the sales. In this case they are not.


You have examined the exclusivity clauses in the Klein-HD contract and determined that they have an exclusive deal for what exactly? Klein cannot license it's patents or designs to another manufacturer because it has an exclusive retail agreement with HD? That would never happen. No company would ever strangle itself or sign a contract that would prohibit financial gains. Shareholders would never allow it.


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## Maursce

btharmy said:


> And you paid more for them than you would pay for a pair of klein or knipex tools of much better quality.  I saw a single Southwire insulated screwdriver that cost 2x what I paid for a set of 2 (straight and phillips) Ideal insulaated screwdrivers. :no: I noticed the southwire tools are not even listed as available on the lowes website that I can see anyway. I wonder why.


:detective:I am looking at the Southwire Meter model 12070T, it compares to the Klein MM2000 as far as features, though the Southwire says water proof immersible. 

Anyway the Southwire is made in China and the Klein in Korea, I remember when Klein HQ was in Skokie Illinois. Anyway has anyone got anything to say from personal experience. I saw some of the comments about Southwire being a lesser brand of Klein, does anyone know for sure or is it just a guess? 

I know it happens, Black and Decker makes a lot of electrical power tools under a lot of labels, I used to work on stuff at their plant in Boring Maryland, west of Baltimore.

And of course they make a lot of the battery powered tools under different manufacturer specs now.

Any feedback will be appreciated.


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## Maursce

Oh yeah, the Klein was $99 at the Depot and the Southwire was $69 at Lowes


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## Maursce

nolabama said:


> View attachment 26973
> 
> 
> Just meters here. No hand tools yet.


:detective: I am looking at the Southwire Meter model 12070T for $69, it is identical to the Klein MM2000 for $99, as far as features, though the Southwire additionally says water proof immersible. 

Anyway the Southwire is made in China and the Klein in Korea, I remember when Klein HQ was in Skokie Illinois and they were made in America.

Anyway has anyone got anything to say from personal experience. I saw some of the comments about Southwire being a lesser brand of Klein, does anyone know for sure or is it just a guess? 

I know it happens, Black and Decker makes a lot of electrical power tools under a lot of labels, I used to work on stuff at their plant in Boring Maryland, 15 acres under one roof, west of Baltimore.

That is mostly about money, If you can buy the exact same item at several different stores it is going to be a price war, but if you change the label, not just the model number it becomes a whole different discussion.

And of course they make a lot of the battery powered tools under different manufacturer specs now.

Any feedback will be appreciated.


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## 1.21gigawatts

Maursce said:


> Oh yeah, the Klein was $99 at the Depot and the Southwire was $69 at Lowes




I have the klein mm2000, It has been used once. I would recommend Fluke like the T5 600 for around $100 Or the much nicer i2500 iflex for $350.


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## Voltage Hazard

Maursce said:


> Oh yeah, the Klein was $99 at the Depot and the Southwire was $69 at Lowes


Do you have the models, or pricing, mixed up on the Southwire. I just looked at Lowes.com, and the 12070T was $99 like the Klein.

I have never used the Southwire, but I have the Klein. I am happy with it. Been using it for a few years with no issue.


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## farmantenna

I'm resurrecting this post. screw Southwire. I compared prices between Klien and them and there is very little difference. my Klien strippers I just purchased were $22 or $24 at HD and southwire version at Lowes was $24. same with srewdrivers but Southwire is made in China so screw them. I'll continue to try to purchase American products if I can afford it.


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## cjcindy

First south wire product I bought was the 12n1 I had it almost a month when the square panel bit stripped out I posted a picture on the southwire Facebook page and in 5 minutes or less they sent a reply asking for my address well the next week I got a 9 in 1 in the mail from southwire so I got back online and looked up there phone number I talked to the customer service representative and explained who I was and what was going on turned out the 12n1 was on back order so they had sent the 9n1 to do me till I got my 12n1 which arrived the following week so one thing I can say about Southwire is that there customer service is second to none


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## splatz

cjcindy said:


> First south wire product I bought was the 12n1 I had it almost a month when the square panel bit stripped out I posted a picture on the southwire Facebook page and in 5 minutes or less they sent a reply asking for my address well the next week I got a 9 in 1 in the mail from southwire so I got back online and looked up there phone number I talked to the customer service representative and explained who I was and what was going on turned out the 12n1 was on back order so they had sent the 9n1 to do me till I got my 12n1 which arrived the following week so one thing I can say about Southwire is that there customer service is second to none


That's good but I'd rather just have a good tool in the first place, I am not on Facebook but I still don't like to waste time messing around.


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## Majewski

I don't not like their tools offered at lowes. Based off of that alone I don't give much attention to sw tools.


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## Signal1

Pros don't go to Lowe's


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## drspec

Signal1 said:


> Pros don't go to Lowe's


you do when romex is about $15 less per 1000' and Lowes gives you 5% off of that

they also sell an outdoor rated Intermatic surge protector for half the price of the supply house. I think I paid about $140, supply house wanted $250.


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## Majewski

drspec said:


> you do when romex is about $15 less per 1000' and Lowes gives you 5% off of that
> 
> they also sell an outdoor rated Intermatic surge protector for half the price of the supply house. I think I paid about $140, supply house wanted $250.


Bingo!!! That's why I goto Menards so much. Sh's only get my business when I need it now or it's something I can't get anywhere else.


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## Signal1

drspec said:


> you do when romex is about $15 less per 1000' and Lowes gives you 5% off of that
> 
> they also sell an outdoor rated Intermatic surge protector for half the price of the supply house. I think I paid about $140, supply house wanted $250.


Fair enough, I haven't bought romex in over 10 years.


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## Flyingsod

Signal1 said:


> Fair enough, I haven't bought romex in over 10 years.


Big box home stores are cheaper on anything that's residential. I went to my SH guy for some sub panels in my house once. He wouldn't even bother pricing them for me. He was straight up and told me he couldn't touch the prices of the natl chains because they buy in such bulk they get massive discounts. 

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


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## Flyingsod

Southwire tools are Prolly fine for those who don't know better. I've had the opportunity to test then side by side with my Knipex . While the lineman pliers felt fine and seemed to work ok they required considerably more force to cut some #4 than my Knipex.

Such is the case with many cheapo alternatives. My Pittsburgh brand linemans seemed fine till I compared then side by side with my buddies kliens.

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


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## Dennis Alwon

I have used a few southwire tools and I have no issues with them


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## HackWork

Signal1 said:


> Pros don't go to Lowe's


I love the way Majewski both Likes and Thanks your post even though he spends half his life inside of Home Depot. 

I can't say what "Pros" do, but I can say what people who care about profit do, and that's shop at Lowes and Home Depot and anywhere else that sells products for good prices.


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## Majewski

I'm not at Home Depot a lot, Menards, Viking, GraybaR... You betchya!
And a few other no name stops for coffee and treats!!!!!


I do need a good bagel place though, a friend just sparked that fire in me!


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## TGGT

Majewski said:


> I'm not at Home Depot a lot, Menards, Viking, GraybaR... You betchya!
> And a few other no name stops for coffee and treats!!!!!
> 
> 
> I do need a good bagel place though, a friend just sparked that fire in me!


Believe it or not there is a local bagel shop here in Texas that makes them every morning and they are fantastic, boiled like they're supposed to be, nice and dense. A truly good bagel can be hard to come by. I'm pretty sure the owner is from the east coast.


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## Signal1

HackWork said:


> I love the way Majewski both Likes and Thanks your post even though he spends half his life inside of Home Depot.
> 
> I can't say what "Pros" do, but I can say what people who care about profit do, and that's shop at Lowes and Home Depot and anywhere else that sells products for good prices.


Hey.... It Rhymes OK?

As I indicated in my response to drspec, I've been out of the residential game for awhile.
I still can't get used to legit contractors patronizing the very places whose business model is to put the trades out of business. (see Cory's pipe bending video....the one with Cory from Lowe's).
There's a reason the supply houses are struggling, their core customers (us) abandoned them for the enemy.
I guess that's just the way it is now.


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## HackWork

Signal1 said:


> Hey.... It Rhymes OK?
> 
> As I indicated in my response to drspec, I've been out of the residential game for awhile.
> I still can't get used to legit contractors patronizing the very places whose business model is to put the trades out of business. (see Cory's pipe bending video....the one with Cory from Lowe's).
> There's a reason the supply houses are struggling, their core customers (us) abandoned them for the enemy.
> I guess that's just the way it is now.


I didn't abandon the supply houses, they drove me out by charging me so much. Now I understand that they can't always compete with larger chains, but I have given examples of how they overinflate prices. Such as a 2" PVC meter offset sold at Home Depot for $4.01 while my supply house sells it for $7.75, almost double. One time I paid $19.99 for a quart of Ideal pulling lubricant that Home Depot charges $11 and Grainger charges $15  

Supply houses may give large contractors good discounts, but not smaller ones like me. And FWIW, I see my supply houses charging walk-in homeowners and handymen the same as they charge me, just like Home Depot does.

Then there is the issue of stock. WHY OH WHY does my supply house, that mainly deals with Siemens panels, not have a 60A Siemens breaker!?!?!?! I'm not talking about once, I am talking about every time. When I ask for one they just give me a Murray, but inspectors don't like that. It's the same thing with half of the normal products, why don't they keep them in stock? I'm sick of going to the supply house with the expectation of them not having everything I need.

My business is not going to make or break any store, especially not a huge chain. So it's wise for me to do whatever leads to the most profit


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## zac

HackWork said:


> I didn't abandon the supply houses, they drove me out by charging me so much. Now I understand that they can't always compete with larger chains, but I have given examples of how they overinflate prices. Such as a 2" PVC meter offset sold at Home Depot for $4.01 while my supply house sells it for $7.75, almost double. One time I paid $19.99 for a quart of Ideal pulling lubricant that Home Depot charges $11 and Grainger charges $15
> 
> Supply houses may give large contractors good discounts, but not smaller ones like me. And FWIW, I see my supply houses charging walk-in homeowners and handymen the same as they charge me, just like Home Depot does.
> 
> My business is not going to make or break any store, especially not a huge chain. So it's wise for me to do whatever leads to the most profit


I had to grab some ideal wire markers (numbers) at CED for a wire pull. 
$20! Twice the price home depot offers $9.
I needed them so I had to bite the bullet, but a brother remembers.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Signal1

HackWork said:


> I didn't abandon the supply houses, they drove me out by charging me so much. Now I understand that they can't always compete with larger chains, but I have given examples of how they overinflate prices. Such as a 2" PVC meter offset sold at Home Depot for $4.01 while my supply house sells it for $7.75, almost double. One time I paid $19.99 for a quart of Ideal pulling lubricant that Home Depot charges $11 and Grainger charges $15
> 
> Supply houses may give large contractors good discounts, but not smaller ones like me. And FWIW, I see my supply houses charging walk-in homeowners and handymen the same as they charge me, just like Home Depot does.
> 
> Then there is the issue of stock. WHY OH WHY does my supply house, that mainly deals with Siemens panels, not have a 60A Siemens breaker!?!?!?! I'm not talking about once, I am talking about every time. When I ask for one they just give me a Murray, but inspectors don't like that. It's the same thing with half of the normal products, why don't they keep them in stock? I'm sick of going to the supply house with the expectation of them not having everything I need.
> 
> My business is not going to make or break any store, especially not a huge chain. So it's wise for me to do whatever leads to the most profit


As usual Hack you make some excellent points. Some I hadn't thought of.

I guess I'm lucky to have e very good SH, that is very well stocked and is very good to me. Beacon Electric, Medford MA.
I used them extensively when I had the business, and then signed them on to my current employer. 
Much of the stuff I use today isn't even on the shelves of the DIY centers anyways unless I'm doing work around he house. Even then I often go to the SH, still have my account.
It's all economics I guess, the big boys can sell for less than that's that, and the SH's have lost their loyalty as a matter of survival, times change.
I still have disdain for DIY places that have amateurs hosting "workshops" on Saturday mornings trying to show people how to wire their houses. (watch the video)


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## Big John

When Grainger is a cheaper option that's how you know the prices are screwed up.


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## HackWork

Signal1 said:


> As usual Hack you make some excellent points. Some I hadn't thought of.
> 
> I guess I'm lucky to have e very good SH, that is very well stocked and is very good to me. Beacon Electric, Medford MA.
> I used them extensively when I had the business, and then signed them on to my current employer.
> Much of the stuff I use today isn't even on the shelves of the DIY centers anyways unless I'm doing work around he house. Even then I often go to the SH, still have my account.
> It's all economics I guess, the big boys can sell for less than that's that, and the SH's have lost their loyalty as a matter of survival, times change.
> I still have disdain for DIY places that have amateurs hosting "workshops" on Saturday mornings trying to show people how to wire their houses. (watch the video)


If the supply house was more accommodating, if they carried the stuff that they should, if they took a hint and realized that they should start carrying normal stuff so it doesn't need to be special ordered every time, etc. then I would be more willing to overlook the higher price.

But they don't do the above and some of the higher prices are just too high.

Another example, I need a pull chain light for a closet, the supply house doesn't have anything that will work. They don't have a single light with a cover, so I *have to* go to Home Depot, no other choice.

This is something that bothers me because I should be able to go to the supply house, get everything that I need, and pay less than retail. We sell products, every other business in the world buys products for wholesale prices except for us.


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## Majewski

Signal1 said:


> Hey.... It Rhymes OK?
> 
> As I indicated in my response to drspec, I've been out of the residential game for awhile.
> I still can't get used to legit contractors patronizing the very places whose business model is to put the trades out of business. (see Cory's pipe bending video....the one with Cory from Lowe's).
> There's a reason the supply houses are struggling, their core customers (us) abandoned them for the enemy.
> I guess that's just the way it is now.


My sh's are far from struggling.


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## splatz

Let's face it, supply houses have been pretty lousy because lousy was good enough for a long time. They were the only game in town. They made money without doing a good job for a lot of their customers. 

They did a good enough job for their bigger bread and butter customers, giving them decent pricing and working hard at customer service, and providing referrals. 

For me, I can't imagine how many hours I have spent over the years watching their counter men click click click at keyboards forever to ring up a three item purchase. 

I can't imagine now much time I've spent waiting in line while there's just one guy at the counter, click click clicking through the four people in front of me, while three guys unpack what came in on a truck earlier that morning. 

They all close at 5:00 sharp so there's no picking up junk on the way home for me. In fact some are cutting their hours, one here is closing at 4:00 now. Trying to shave a few bucks cutting their employee's hours a bit, great. The big box stores are open when I need them. I wish I was always done well before 5:00 and didn't need to buy supplies on Saturdays and Sundays, but that's not where I live. 

I constantly have to ask to get a decent price, and often I am just in too much of a hurry to **** around and paid to much just to get out of there. The other day I paid $16 or something for a three piece knockout filler that's $2.99 at Garvin. I asked if that was right and they said they couldn't get the computer to make it any lower. I didn't have time to **** around any longer. 

They can't figure out what to stock because they are used to people waiting as long as it takes to get what they need. In this day and age, why would I have them order something if it isn't in stock? If I wanted to order it, I'd have ordered it from someone and had it shipped right to me. Why would I get them involved? They have forgotten why they call a STORE a STORE. You buy what I need and STORE it until I need it, then when I need it I will pay you more than you paid. 

At this point they are probably second or third generation businesses and not capable of changing to meet the challenge the big box stores are bringing for the residential products. I would predict that there will be a lot of consolidation in that business, with larger national chains buying the smaller supply houses. It will suck for their bread and butter customers, with whom they've had a great relationship for a long time. They won't get the personal service they're used to when they're part of a larger enterprise. 

But I bet they figure out how to get things done at the point of sale, how to get pricing a little more sane, and how to make sure they stock what people need so they aren't missing sales. For me, it will be better when this happens.


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## Majewski

For me all I know is the large company sh. They have everything but it's like buying studf for over 20-30% what it costs at Menards or Home Depot. Was there a time when these places were small maw and paw owned?


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## Flyingsod

Majewski said:


> For me all I know is the large company sh. They have everything but it's like buying studf for over 20-30% what it costs at Menards or Home Depot. Was there a time when these places were small maw and paw owned?


There's still a few small-time supply houses where I work and live. But honestly like I mentioned before if it's residential they cannot compete with the big box do it yourself stores. The niche for supply houses is in commercial and Industrial the kind of stuff Lowe's and Home Depot and Menards just doesn't carry.

Before our time supply houses were still not the only place to get residential items. Local hardware stores (mostly maw and paw) had everything you needed to do electrical work in your house. If you wanted to buy in bulk or get industrial things an electrical supply distributor was your only option. They were never really meant as a place to stop by and get a few items for one job. 




Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


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## MechanicalDVR

TGGT said:


> Believe it or not there is a local bagel shop here in Texas that makes them every morning and they are fantastic, boiled like they're supposed to be, nice and dense. A truly good bagel can be hard to come by. I'm pretty sure the owner is from the east coast.


A good bagel is hard to find outside NY or NJ. It's all the dough and that is all about the water. You can normally how far out of the Tri-State area you are by the taste of bagels. Same goes for pizza.


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## HackWork

Yesterday's breakfast.


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## TGGT

MechanicalDVR said:


> A good bagel is hard to find outside NY or NJ. It's all the dough and that is all about the water. You can normally how far out of the Tri-State area you are by the taste of bagels. Same goes for pizza.


Plain bagel with plain cream cheese. So simple, so delicious. Add a few strips of bacon too for something really awesome.


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## HackWork

TGGT said:


> Plain bagel with plain cream cheese. So simple, so delicious. Add a few strips of bacon too for something really awesome.


Wow, not many people know of that. Bacon and cream cheese on a bagel is food of the gods.


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## Flyingsod

HackWork said:


> Yesterday's breakfast.


Is that SUPPOSED to be oddly erotic or is it just me?

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## MechanicalDVR

HackWork said:


> Yesterday's breakfast.


Looks good but those wanna be cheese slices are bad for your heart. If that's pork roll, the nitrates and sodium will hurt you too.


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## HackWork

MechanicalDVR said:


> Looks good but those wanna be cheese slices are bad for your heart. If that's pork roll, the nitrates and sodium will hurt you too.


But it tastes awesome :thumbup::laughing:

Excuse me while I pop another 80MG of Lasix :whistling2:


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## TGGT

HackWork said:


> Wow, not many people know of that. Bacon and cream cheese on a bagel is food of the gods.


It's on the menu of the bagel shop I was talking about. I only discovered it this past year.


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## MechanicalDVR

TGGT said:


> It's on the menu of the bagel shop I was talking about. I only discovered it this past year.


Try cream cheese and bacon on a salt bagel. Also don't rule out a buttered plain bagel with a Hersey bar on it.


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## drspec

So good they sell them in 2 packs


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> Looks good but those wanna be cheese slices are bad for your heart. If that's pork roll, the nitrates and sodium will hurt you too.


You do know that Haxer has no heart, right?


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## macmikeman

Tesla is going to be able to back me up on this- Before big box stores came to Hawaii, (The first one was ''Home Improvement Warehouse'' the predecessor of Home Depot) electrical supply houses opened the doors up at 9:00 am and closed them at 3:00 pm. That was local style, all businesses then were on track with that. Used to make me pull my hair out. Even Excel Electrical Supply, the one that was owned by a Haole not a local company had the same hours. Along came Home Improvement Warehouse open 24 hours a day ,7 days a week. Cowabunga! Everything changed all of a sudden. Now most all the supply houses open at 6:30 am and are also open on Saturdays.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> You do know that Haxer has no heart, right?


Liquid plastic isn't good for any organic organisms.


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## telsa

HackWork said:


> Wow, not many people know of that. Bacon and cream cheese on a bagel is food of the gods.


Stop right there. 

That's not kosher. :no:


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## tjb

The only Place a supply House shines is that they deliver. The ones that can get it to the site even before I show up in the morning are the ones that keep my business. Truth?


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## TGGT

Unsolicited, two people have commented that they like my ideal reflex strippers I just bought. We're doing a lot of control wire so 14-22awg and my klein strippers weren't doing a great job with the smaller wire. I guess other people have had similar difficulties.


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## Flyingsod

tjb said:


> The only Place a supply House shines is that they deliver. The ones that can get it to the site even before I show up in the morning are the ones that keep my business. Truth?


Excellent point. In bigger jobs the SH truck is there just about every morning alleviating extra parts runs.

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## Going_Commando

TGGT said:


> Unsolicited, two people have commented that they like my ideal reflex strippers I just bought. We're doing a lot of control wire so 14-22awg and my klein strippers weren't doing a great job with the smaller wire. I guess other people have had similar difficulties.


Well the regular Ideal Reflex T's only go to #18, silly. I keep a separate set of strippers for low volt/control.


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## HackWork

Going_Commando said:


> Well the regular Ideal Reflex T's only go to #18, silly. I keep a separate set of strippers for low volt/control.


I'd like to think that I single handedly brought back the word silly and made it ok for grown men to say.


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## Going_Commando

HackWork said:


> Going_Commando said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the regular Ideal Reflex T's only go to #18, silly. I keep a separate set of strippers for low volt/control.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to think that I single handedly brought back the word silly and made it ok for grown men to say.
Click to expand...

I've never stopped using it, you ninny.


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## HackWork

Going_Commando said:


> I've never stopped using it, you ninny.


Your first time using it was in 2012, well after I started my campaign.


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## Majewski

drspec said:


> So good they sell them in 2 packs


I tried these for 4 seconds and threw them across the room into the trash.


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## sbrn33

Majewski said:


> I tried these for 4 seconds and threw them across the room into the trash.


I am guessing you throw like a girl.


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## Majewski

A girl who is disabled and on muscle relaxers.


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## Flyingsod

Majewski said:


> I tried these for 4 seconds and threw them across the room into the trash.


That's why they come in two packs so when you get mad and throw one there's still one left to use

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


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## Majewski

So they were made with my pre madonna episodes in mind. Perfect!


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## TGGT

Going_Commando said:


> Well the regular Ideal Reflex T's only go to #18, silly. I keep a separate set of strippers for low volt/control.


Most of our work is 14 and 16 awg so I'm using the ideals often.


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## sbrn33

Majewski said:


> So they were made with my pre madonna episodes in mind. Perfect!


Pre- Madonna? Is that 1981?


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## Majewski

Lmao! Prima Donna. New update and autocorrect are ganging up against me.


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## Going_Commando

HackWork said:


> Going_Commando said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never stopped using it, you ninny.
> 
> 
> 
> Your first time using it was in 2012, well after I started my campaign.
Click to expand...

Ive been using it in my vocabulary for years, especially after 2009 when i started listening to ska and heard the Aquabats song "Ska Boss". I dont post in my vernacular most of the time anyways.


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