# How many violations can YOU count?



## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

A job I went to. This guy has this mill in his basement which uses a three phase motor 220v. He has a single phase 220v circuit wired to 2 legs of a three phase motor and then wired to two legs on his motor on the mill (three legs total, the third coming straight from the motor). So basically two legs on the three phase motor have three wires connected with a wire nut. He showed me his little schematics for it. Anyway, he's got romex coming out of the service panel through a ceiling with the drywall ripped off (along with a bunch of other wires) and going into conduit with no bushing or any connection to keep the wire from rubbing. Then he's got it going to a j box where it's all connected to the three phase motor I talked about earlier. Then ALL THAT is going to ANOTHER junction box on the CEILING where he has flexpipe with romex through it going into his motor. I've rarely seen anything like it. I guess this is why there's so much code in residential. Can you count all of the violations? What stands out to you as the most ridiculous?? 

At least he has all the devices grounded properly. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15280136666/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15116401919/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15116613747/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15300024841/in/photostream/


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

And you're there why? To fix all the messed up crap you took pictures of?

True, there are several violations but what is your proposed fix?

Pete


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Welcome to the forum..:thumbsup:

Try this so you can post your pictures..

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f18/how-post-photos-images-2011-update-19925/




.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

The reason we were there was somewhat unrelated but yes, we have to fix all this. I mean, I pointed out most of the things wrong, which I know seems like I was just explaining what is going on in the picture...but it just so happens that pretty much everything is wrong. I guess romex in conduit isn't necessarily wrong?? Seems a little pointless to me but I guess it is technically a wet location. He's missing a connector to one of his j boxes. Rewire the mill motor with a straight wire. I'm not sure if his situation with phase conversion will draw too many amps from just having two legs attached. So many other things. Any suggestions?


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

Can you see the photo links? I used flickr I hope that's ok but they are urls....


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

SO they made their own *roto-con*? It would be more efficient if they had a cap in the set up.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

I guess it's kind of like a rotary converter. They used a smaller 110V motor to get it going first then he shuts it off after the three phase 220V converter motor is going. He showed it to us running and it does seem to work well. Just as long as he's not loading it up a lot.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Next time post the IMG link that you can find within Photobucket. Black Dog posted a link to some instructions. Then post one pic, talk about it, post another pic, and talk about that one. A 90 word word jumble followed by picture links is hard to decipher.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

Right, so any comments on the actual content on the post or does everyone want to talk about the way I formatted the post tonight?


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

A job I went to. This guy has this mill in his basement which uses a three phase motor 220v. He has a single phase 220v circuit wired to 2 legs of a three phase motor and then wired to two legs on his motor on the mill (three legs total, the third coming straight from the motor). So basically two legs on the three phase motor have three wires connected with a wire nut. He showed me his little schematics for it.

Anyway, he's got romex coming out of the service panel through a ceiling with the drywall ripped off (along with a bunch of other wires) and going into conduit with no bushing or any connection to keep the wire from rubbing. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15116401919/in/photostream/

Then he's got it going to a j box where it's all connected to the three phase motor I talked about earlier. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15280136666/

Then he's got it going to a j box where it's all connected to the three phase motor I talked about earlier. Then ALL THAT is going to ANOTHER junction box on the CEILING where he has flexpipe with romex through it going into his motor.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15116613747/in/photostream/

. I've rarely seen anything like it. I guess this is why there's so much code in residential. Can you count all of the violations? What stands out to you as the most ridiculous?? 

At least he has all the devices grounded properly.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

rlckwd7 said:


> Right, so any comments on the actual content on the post or does everyone want to talk about the way I formatted the post tonight?


I think you should have used GREEN text; some of'em get pissy about that too. :whistling2:


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

You don't say?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

rlckwd7 said:


> Right, so any comments on the actual content on the post or does everyone want to talk about the way I formatted the post tonight?


Easy man.. I don't think anyone is gettin twisted over how you formatted your post. I suppose we are just used to seeing it done differently. 

That being said... welcome to the forum!:thumbup:

Pete


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Walkman said:


> I think you should have used GREEN text; some of'em get pissy about that too. :whistling2:


I just don't read your posts. :no:


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

Not to be argumentative, and I know I really sound like it right now, but I mean you're doing exactly what I sarcastically described in the very comment you quoted lol. So any thoughts on the actual content of the post? Or am I just wasting my time here. 

Love the forums, I do. I'm actually a regular reader. Figured I would post something... 

Didn't know it was going to go off the tracks so quickly.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

rlckwd7 said:


> Not to be argumentative, and I know I really sound like it right now, but I mean you're doing exactly what I sarcastically described in the very comment you quoted lol. So any thoughts on the actual content of the post? Or am I just wasting my time here.
> 
> Love the forums, I do. I'm actually a regular reader. Figured I would post something...
> 
> Didn't know it was going to go off the tracks so quickly.


OK.. I think I get it now. 

You still haven't answered my original question. 

What do *YOU* think is wrong and what is* YOUR* fix for it. Pictures are great but they don't always tell the whole story.

Pete


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

this is a good post Rick; just hang in there and someone will chime in with relevant content. If you been lurkin' then you know it's a great forum so please be patient.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

rlckwd7 said:


> Not to be argumentative, and I know I really sound like it right now, but I mean you're doing exactly what I sarcastically described in the very comment you quoted lol. So any thoughts on the actual content of the post? Or am I just wasting my time here.
> 
> Love the forums, I do. I'm actually a regular reader. Figured I would post something...
> 
> Didn't know it was going to go off the tracks so quickly.


:laughing:

Don't be like the "Green Texter" up there:donatello: and get your panties in a bunch. The way you set up your posts made it difficult to follow. 

If you don't spoon feed most these animals they'll bite you.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

rlckwd7 said:


> Not to be argumentative, and I know I really sound like it right now, but I mean you're doing exactly what I sarcastically described in the very comment you quoted lol. So any thoughts on the actual content of the post? Or am I just wasting my time here. Love the forums, I do. I'm actually a regular reader. Figured I would post something... Didn't know it was going to go off the tracks so quickly.


Keep posting, you'll get the hang of uploading pictures here soon enough.
I liked the set screw 90 going in to the wall.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

I guess technically the romex isn't a violation inside the conduit because the location is technically a wet location (basement). Some will probably say it is (would like to see the code). The conduit needs a connector on the j box. The flex wire going to the motor should really be one piece of wire, and the motor should really be a 4 prong twist lock plug going to a receptacle, not hard wired. The entry point where the romex is coming into the conduit needs to have a sleeve so it doesn't rub. Need to derate the wire capacity. It's 10-3 in 1/2 conduit. 

What else?


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

And the motor wiring itself...well that's obvious


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

Thanks but the l is actually an L, (Lockwood). Thanks.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

Walkman said:


> this is a good post Rick; just hang in there and someone will chime in with relevant content. If you been lurkin' then you know it's a great forum so please be patient.


Thanks a lot. The l is actually an L (lockwood).


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Relatively speaking, i see nothing wrong here. You're nitpicking the owners mechanics.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

That's actually incredibly tame compared to a lot of home machine shop wiring jobs.


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## rlckwd7 (Sep 20, 2014)

What would you do to make it all right and to code?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Romex / nm isnt rated for wet locations. You were right. 

no matter what we theorize as electrics. It has always been .


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Walkman said:


> I think you should have used GREEN text; some of'em get pissy about that too. :whistling2:





Walkman said:


> I think you should have used GREEN text; some of'em get pissy about that too. :whistling2:


Not pissy, your post are next to impossible for me to read so I ignore everything you post. Now if it was just me I'd tell you to tell me to eat it. But it seems a majority of members find the green text not just difficult to read but annoying and relagate your post to the trash heap.

If I was being pissy I recommend you be banned.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Not pissy, your post are next to impossible for me to read so I ignore everything you post. Now if it was just me I'd tell you to tell me to eat it. But it seems a majority of members find the green text not just difficult to read but annoying and relagate your post to the trash heap.
> 
> If I was being pissy I recommend you be banned.



I neither said anything to you or about you. So I'm not really sure why you feel it necessary to attack me. 

Hurts my feelings, really.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Walkman said:


> I neither said anything to you or about you. So I'm not really sure why you feel it necessary to attack me.
> 
> Hurts my feelings, really.


Your post are *IMPOSSIBLE TO READ* they borderline on annoying and make Cletis's post look refreshing.

I am serious about this, not BSing you. I can post your post in normal black font what can't you?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Walkman said:


> I neither said anything to you or about you. So I'm not really sure why you feel it necessary to attack me.
> 
> Hurts my feelings, really.


Your stuff is difficult to read because of the color....Try blue if you don't like the black. The green is pretty light colored. I think that is what Brian is trying to tell you, not that he thinks you suck, just that the green sucks cause he, and others, have a hard time reading it.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

rlckwd7 said:


> A job I went to. This guy has this mill in his basement which uses a three phase motor 220v. He has a single phase 220v circuit wired to 2 legs of a three phase motor and then wired to two legs on his motor on the mill (three legs total, the third coming straight from the motor). So basically two legs on the three phase motor have three wires connected with a wire nut. He showed me his little schematics for it.
> 
> Anyway, he's got romex coming out of the service panel through a ceiling with the drywall ripped off (along with a bunch of other wires) and going into conduit with no bushing or any connection to keep the wire from rubbing.
> 
> ...



*rlckwd7; I apologize for my part for mucking up your post. I've quoted it here so that perhaps we can get back to it. I count 4.

Switched: Thank you for the explanation. For my part, I cannot notice that much of a difference. I think that Brian does think that I suck, he compared me to cletis; and not in a good way.

Brian: That REALLY hurt. I think you should be put in "time out" for at least 5 minutes and think about how your words can damage the fragile spirit of others. Also, please let me know if this "type" is better. I'd hate to loose you as a friend over this issue.


*


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

I guess I am missing something (in addition to side tracking the original post).

Is there a reason you post in green? 

If I am alone in this I then I will shut up and just continue to ignore your post. 

But I think others find it difficult to read the green font as well and I am curious why you post this way?


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> I guess I am missing something (in addition to side tracking the original post).
> 
> Is there a reason you post in green?
> 
> ...


*Thank you for opening a dialogue. Again I apologize, rlckwd7. No, you are not alone. riveter and allwires are adamant green haters to the point that all they did was hound me about it in such a hateful way that I've had to hit the ignore button on them. It's not that they, or you dislike it; it's the anger I don't understand. Like I mentioned before, I can barely tell a difference on my laptop or iPhone screens so originally I just thought it was silly to complain about. 

I did, however, receive a PM recently that explained to me the particulars and suggested that I "bold" the type and that might help. I am trying that now and I hope it helps. 

I've already lost the benefit of 2 of the more clever posters here. It's not my intent to cause an issue so severe as to cause people to attack me (textually). I would hope, instead, that it would be easier to use the ignore button than to expend copious amounts of energy deriding me about text color.


Now for the $64,000 question: Why. The answer is simple. It's an idiosyncrasy of mine; I have 3. The other 2 are even more innocuous than this one.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity and alleviates your irritation. 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

rlckwd7: I count 4.

wait.... what was the question?????? :::::sigh::::: *


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Green makes me see red.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Green text is fine, romex in flex probably ok, basement is not a wet location, romex can't be used in wet location whether in conduit or not.

2 rewards points


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Walkman said:


> I think you should have used GREEN text; some of'em get pissy about that too. :whistling2:


*Yea I dont understand why anyone would be mad about the green. Seems silly.*


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## icemanjc (Dec 25, 2012)

Walkman said:


> *Thank you for opening a dialogue. Again I apologize, rlckwd7. No, you are not alone. riveter and allwires are adamant green haters to the point that all they did was hound me about it in such a hateful way that I've had to hit the ignore button on them. It's not that they, or you dislike it; it's the anger I don't understand. Like I mentioned before, I can barely tell a difference on my laptop or iPhone screens so originally I just thought it was silly to complain about.
> 
> I did, however, receive a PM recently that explained to me the particulars and suggested that I "bold" the type and that might help. I am trying that now and I hope it helps.
> 
> ...


I didn't really bother to read the whole post, but I'm excited that I could actually read the whole first line without my eyes blowing up!


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

icemanjc said:


> I didn't really bother to read the whole post, but I'm excited that I could actually read the whole first line without my eyes blowing up!


so if you realize it bothers so many people and you dont wnat to piss them off, why do you continue to do it?:whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I have no problem reading your green posts Walkman

In fact, this forum graciously offers a multitude of colors, fonts, and sizes 

The folks having a problem *ARE* the problem, because they insist on using cheap phones and equipment to read and respond here

~CS~


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> I have no problem reading your green posts Walkman
> 
> In fact, this forum graciously offers a multitude of colors, fonts, and sizes
> 
> ...


Actually when reading on the phone different fonts and colors aren't an issue because they don't show up. When using the app my phone displays everything in black with standard font regardless of how the poster originally formatted it.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Walkman said:


> Thank you for opening a dialogue. Again I apologize, rlckwd7. No, you are not alone. riveter and allwires are adamant green haters to the point that all they did was hound me about it in such a hateful way that I've had to hit the ignore button on them. It's not that they, or you dislike it; it's the anger I don't understand. Like I mentioned before, I can barely tell a difference on my laptop or iPhone screens so originally I just thought it was silly to complain about. I did, however, receive a PM recently that explained to me the particulars and suggested that I "bold" the type and that might help. I am trying that now and I hope it helps. I've already lost the benefit of 2 of the more clever posters here. It's not my intent to cause an issue so severe as to cause people to attack me (textually). I would hope, instead, that it would be easier to use the ignore button than to expend copious amounts of energy deriding me about text color. Now for the $64,000 question: Why. The answer is simple. It's an idiosyncrasy of mine; I have 3. The other 2 are even more innocuous than this one. I hope that satisfies your curiosity and alleviates your irritation. Meanwhile, back at the ranch.... rlckwd7: I count 4. wait.... what was the question?????? :::::sigh:::::


What are the other 2 idiosyncrasies?


<2 reward points & small fries>


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