# ABC Apprenticeship



## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Hello,

I have recently been accepted into the ABC Electrical Apprenticeship program and have a few questions. I am simply looking for answer sto these questions and not your personal views, opinions, ratings, or judgment of ABC itself so please don't respond to this post if you do not have direct answers to my questions.

1. After entering the program and being put on the dispatch list, how long does it take to be placed with a contractor?
2. What is class like?
3. Will I have a consistent 40 hours per week?

Thank you for your time!

- Habe


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## SdCountySparky (Aug 6, 2014)

1) When I went through the ABC you can find contractors to work for on your own you didn't have to wait to be dispatched. What part of California are you from? Maybe I can send you to a couple contractors I know in the L.A. area if you're from around there. Ask the ABC if you have to wait on them.

2) The class isn't that hard if you're paying attention. First year is OHM's law and basic theory. You'll also have some labs on wiring and pipe bending. 

3) Depends on how busy the contractor is and how much you hustle. Nobody likes an apprentice that slacks off on his phone or stands around. Always ask whats next after finishing a task and pay attention when being told what to do. (Write it down on a mini notepad that you keep in your pocket). If there isn't anything to do organize material on the jobsite or the truck your working out of. Believe me if your a slacker you will ba LAID OFF quick. Walk around as if there's a fire under your feet don't just slug around. I ran work as a foreman for ten years before working for the County of San Diego. And always pay attention to safety or you will be kicked off the jobsite.


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Hi SdCountySparky,

Thank you for your reply. I am in the San Diego area. In the orientation, the Student Services Coordinator was discussing the rules and regulations of the program and one of the rules was, "no job hunting," which is, if I understood correctly, we are not aloud to look for work outside of ABC's placement. Maybe you can clarify if I misunderstood what exactly that meant. It is in my handbook, but I don't have it at the moment. 

Since I am new to this field (little experience in the electrical distributor ) my plan is to literally bust my butt, do what I am told, ask for more, etc... Safety is everything to me as I am a young married man with a 14 month daughter. 

I wonder though, when should I buy my tools/work boots/etc...? The Coordinator told us not to blow all of our money on the Required Tools List, but to ask the contractor in the interview what we will need for the job. I don't know how that will be maneuvered if the contractor wants me to start on the spot and I don't have my gear ready.

Looking forward to your response!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Tools,
If you are first year and have no field experience, do what you can to be safe.
Be very careful about open equipment, panels and things that can hurt or kill you.
My first year of ABC was digging, moving material and chipping concrete.
We all did this.
Be the person that stays busy organizing, sweeping up, taking care of the shops tools and learning materials.
A new person involved the trade that knows the materials is the best a journeyman can hope for.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

I can't speak of contractor assignment, as I was already working as a helper when I "persuaded" my boss to send me to school, or I'd find someone who did. I also don't remember students being placed with contractors. If I remeber right, they would remove from school if you when an exceptionally long time without a job, but I may be wrong. 

The classes are somewhat informal with very little hands on training. The hands on is provided by up your employer. Just like other schooling you get what you put into it. The harder you work the more valuable the schooling is, and that goes way beyond the classroom. Spend your free time reading forums here and at MH, but do yourself a favor and stick with the General and Code sub-topics. As you're reading them, use you code book to follow along. Try to figure out how and why the posters come to the conclusion. I'm 14 years in and still read the code 5-6 days a week. 

40 hours will depend on your contractor and nothing else.


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks for the information. So far it has been a week and a half since I was placed on the dispatch list. I was told to call to check up in 2 weeks. I wonder how long it will take to be placed with a contractor?


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Go and get a job. It is not their best interest to get you employed. It is in YOURS. The employer should be paying for your apprenticeship, not you.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Mshow1323 said:


> I'm 14 years in and still read the code 5-6 days a week.


 Read the code :blink: There are good TV shows these days, try Bloodline, Shameless, or Breaking Bad


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Btharmy,

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about the "no job hunting policy?" If we break it we will be put out of the program.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Habe said:


> Btharmy, Thanks for the advice. What do you think about the "no job hunting policy?" If we break it we will be put out of the program.


Huh???

That is if you quit the program or finish it and find work with another contractor. You then owe $$$ to the ABC affiliated contractor who paid for your schooling. You basically become an "indentured servant" and owe them work to pay off the cost of school. Right now nobody is paying except you. You don't owe them anything besides your tuition. The contractor will pay that for you. Thus, it is critical to find a good contractor that you will want to stay with for 5 years after you finish the program.

If they are saying you can't get a job on your own, that's a new one on me. What ever happened to "open shop"?


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I attended abc in mass. 
I never heard about not job hunting. 
Abc is not a union program. 
Most contractors here make the employee cover tuition, then reimburse upon completion. 
I would imagine because they had too many guys quit mid way through. 
If you are working open shop, which is what abc is. You are entitled to pursue the best job for yourself. 
Unless cali is different. 
Abc was never intended to place workers. Just a common training for all the contractors who joined. 
If they are now in the placement business, they are basically running things like a union hall. Minus the pay and bennies.
Id pass on that


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

dronai said:


> Read the code :blink:


:laughing: Agree. Reading the code is like trying to read the bible.
Both are study materials and need to be addressed as such.
Just reading does no one any good. Studying and using the book is how your supposed to do it.
Unless your just a weirdo that likes reading redundant, boring material! :blink: :laughing:


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## JDJ (Aug 9, 2011)

dronai said:


> Read the code :blink: There are good TV shows these days, try Bloodline, Shameless, or Breaking Bad



Discovered Shameless recently. holy hell that show is 10 shades of wrong!


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## SdCountySparky (Aug 6, 2014)

http://www.zoro.com/greenlee-appren...m_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...2-Tool-LCT209W/202945283?N=5yc1vZc1xyZygZ12l3

Check this tool set out its good for a starter set and isn't that expensive. Yeah, I never heard of the rule about "no job hunting". I finished the ABC in 2002 so the rules might have changed. So you'll be in Poway I actually went through the ABC in Las Vegas but have taken safety Saturday courses at the facility in Poway. Get a basic tool set, Electrician Tool belt ,and a drill. You'll be golden. With a can do attitude like the one you have you'll make it.


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Hello all,

Based on the comments, it sounds like there might be different rules in different states. My handbook clearly states that, "Apprentices may NOT make their own employment arrangements for dispatch," and a list of actions you can take if you are on the "out of work list," which is with the understanding that you must quit as soon as you are dispatched by ABC.


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## ElectronFlow (Dec 21, 2014)

Habe said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Based on the comments, it sounds like there might be different rules in different states. My handbook clearly states that, "Apprentices may NOT make their own employment arrangements for dispatch," and a list of actions you can take if you are on the "out of work list," which is with the understanding that you must quit as soon as you are dispatched by ABC.


So, you can seek work, that you must quit as soon as ABC places
you?

Why would someone take you on, knowing that you intend to quit as
soon as you can? Would YOU hire you, under those circumstances.

As someone else noted, it sounds like a union, minus the wages.
If you are going to sit there and be unemployed, you should consider
the electricians union, so you can be unemployed at a higher level.

They have being unemployed down to a fine art.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Or just find a job , then sign up for schooling. 
It sounds like those abc contractors want the benifet of hall supplied labor, with out paying union wages. 
And im non union. This seems to undermine the worker completely. It sounds like a bad deal . 
Rule #1 in life look out for your best interests. No one else will.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

NacBooster29 said:


> Or just find a job , then sign up for schooling.
> It sounds like those abc contractors want the benifet of hall supplied labor, with out paying union wages.
> And im non union. This seems to undermine the worker completely. It sounds like a bad deal .
> Rule #1 in life look out for your best interests. No one else will.


Especially nonunion contractors, they'll all screw you 10 ways to Sunday given the chance, as you're just beginning to find out now. This is what happens when you let the contractors run the show.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

So, the ABC wants your money to train you as an electrician. But, you can't get a job as an electrical helper in order to earn money to pay your tuition. What a stupid organization.


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

Well, from what I understand reading the whole handbook and attending the orientation, ABC participating contractors pay the tuition of the apprentice, but only the contractors that ABC dispatches you with. Now, nothing has come out of my pocket yet as schooling has not begun and will begin in August. If anything other than the 120 bucks for books and cost for tools is required of me, I will leave the program in a heartbeat. What's "merit shop?"


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

What's "merit shop?"[/QUOTE said:


> Another term for non union. It is supposed to imply the employer will pay each employee based on what they are worth as an employee (their "merit"). What I have discovered is, they will pay you as little as they can get away with unless you complain about your wage. If they want to keep you, then suddenly you are worth a buck or two more per hour. Seems like if they ware actually paying you what you are worth, there would not be any room for a raise. Hmmmmm something to think about.


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## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

In California you can't just be someone's helper , you need to be a part of an accredited program such as abc or the union.
That way they can prove your 8000 hours that you need to take your certification when you complete your hours.
If you hustle you will have no problem staying busy.
My recommendation would be to find a company that does primarily p.w. jobs, because that's where you make your money in the long run.


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## Habe (Jun 11, 2015)

MIKEFLASH said:


> In California you can't just be someone's helper , you need to be a part of an accredited program such as abc or the union.
> That way they can prove your 8000 hours that you need to take your certification when you complete your hours.
> If you hustle you will have no problem staying busy.
> My recommendation would be to find a company that does primarily p.w. jobs, because that's where you make your money in the long run.


Yes! That is exactly what I am talking about. Although, I don't think I get to choose the company. The handbook states that if we decline the first placement we get placed at the bottom of the waiting list and that it will be noted. From what I understand, ABC wants full control and determination on how, where, and who the new apprentices get dispatched to. I don't think they will give us options to choose between this contractor or that contractor. All I really want at this point is for them to call me and set me up with whoever I'm going to be with for the program so I can quit my current administrative job and start grinding out these hours for my license. I am currently working, but not in the trade.


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## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

Habe said:


> Yes! That is exactly what I am talking about. Although, I don't think I get to choose the company. The handbook states that if we decline the first placement we get placed at the bottom of the waiting list and that it will be noted. From what I understand, ABC wants full control and determination on how, where, and who the new apprentices get dispatched to. I don't think they will give us options to choose between this contractor or that contractor. All I really want at this point is for them to call me and set me up with whoever I'm going to be with for the program so I can quit my current administrative job and start grinding out these hours for my license. I am currently working, but not in the trade.


Your definitely going in the right direction. Just be patient they will give you a call. After that it's up to you on how far you go, for the most part you can control your own destiny. As long as you listen, hustle, and follow directions you won't have a problem staying busy. Never be to proud to do what your told, we've all had to do really crappy jobs. Wish you the best.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

The ABC is just a way for non-union shops to get prevailing wage jobs. The ABC school is a joke, no hands-on training or labs, no school, just some book learning that you pay for yourself. The contractors are not interested in you learning anything, its just a way to pay you 40% of scale. You will enter the rotating squad of perma-apprentices needed for the shops to get State or Fed jobs. In reality, buy yourself a bag of tools and call yourself a journeyman. Then get a job with these same shops and get put to work as an installer. Eventually you will know as much as the journeyman in these companies without the phony apprenticeship. Don't think that the work these companies are doing is real electrical work. 

If you want to do real electrical work either get in the IBEW apprenticeship or go to work for a reputable non-union shop that is not ABC. Either way you will learn more and faster and make more money eventually. 

The ABC contractor is composed of a few well paid foremen or superintendents (many ex-IBEW) and a bunch of installers, new ones every week, that do all the grunt work. Most of these installers don't know squat, but they can run rope or MC cable, that's all.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

FaultCurrent said:


> The ABC is just a way for non-union shops to get prevailing wage jobs. The ABC school is a joke, no hands-on training or labs, no school, just some book learning that you pay for yourself. The contractors are not interested in you learning anything, its just a way to pay you 40% of scale. You will enter the rotating squad of perma-apprentices needed for the shops to get State or Fed jobs. In reality, buy yourself a bag of tools and call yourself a journeyman. Then get a job with these same shops and get put to work as an installer. Eventually you will know as much as the journeyman in these companies without the phony apprenticeship. Don't think that the work these companies are doing is real electrical work.
> 
> If you want to do real electrical work either get in the IBEW apprenticeship or go to work for a reputable non-union shop that is not ABC. Either way you will learn more and faster and make more money eventually.
> 
> The ABC contractor is composed of a few well paid foremen or superintendents (many ex-IBEW) and a bunch of installers, new ones every week, that do all the grunt work. Most of these installers don't know squat, but they can run rope or MC cable, that's all.


This is the most ignorant comment ive read on this site in quite awhile.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

NacBooster29 said:


> This is the most ignorant comment ive read on this site in quite awhile.


Why? What did I say that wasn't true?


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I work for an abc contractor, and we install start to finish. We service many accounts with any type of work you can do electrically. 
The only romex ive handled with this comapny is for temp power. On construction sites. 
I speak for myself as far as being able to keep up with ANY journeyman, both in the working and problem solving department. 
For you to say all abc contractors are anything is ignorant. 
Maybe you have your own personal experience, or you're brainwashed. 
But im telling you for a fact, there are abc trained electricians, who are just as compitant if not more than ibew guys. 
I would never say all ibew workers are fat and lazy, because thats not true. 
Just as your statement is not true.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I used to work for a fantastic ABC contractor. They paid well, did quality industrial work, and put safety above all else. But they were a diamond in the rough as far as ANY contractor I've worked for, including union contractors.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

NacBooster29 said:


> I work for an abc contractor, and we install start to finish. We service many accounts with any type of work you can do electrically.
> The only romex ive handled with this comapny is for temp power. On construction sites.
> I speak for myself as far as being able to keep up with ANY journeyman, both in the working and problem solving department.
> For you to say all abc contractors are anything is ignorant.
> ...


I never said all. I know plenty or worthless wiremen, union or not.

I do know several foreman for the largest ABC contractors in SoCal and they are good men. But I also know the personnel director and he carries around a folder of job applications. He tells me if anyone complains about pay or work he whips it out and says he's got plenty of guys just waiting to take their place. 

I been involved with ABC guys on dozens of residential and commercial jobs, at present I am working with an ABC outfit on a big job. Everything I said applies to this job. Foreman is a top hand, and the rest are just grunts pulling BX cable and laying PVC. 

Maybe in your part of the world ABC guys are great.

But for a young guy to start work for these outfits, they won't learn anything.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

FaultCurrent said:


> But for a young guy to start work for these outfits, they won't learn anything.


I've worked for the big ABC and WECA contractors and while there is some real truth to what you say, the part I quoted is not at all accurate.

When it comes down to it an apprentice will ultimately decide who and what he wants to be, chances and education be dammed.

I worked Union as well and saw plenty of guys that hid away bending 3/4" and 1" EMT runs....and pulling a ton of MC Cable or smurf tube in concrete slabs. Some guys hadn't done much else their whole career. 

You just have to learn to stand up for yourself, know when it's time to approach the Foreman for a change, and learn all you can outside of work. The best guys I know, union or not, created opportunities, they didn't sit around and wait for someone to place them neatly in their lap.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Habe said:


> Well, from what I understand reading the whole handbook and attending the orientation, ABC participating contractors pay the tuition of the apprentice, but only the contractors that ABC dispatches you with. Now, nothing has come out of my pocket yet as schooling has not begun and will begin in August. If anything other than the 120 bucks for books and cost for tools is required of me, I will leave the program in a heartbeat. What's "merit shop?"


A Merit shop is a non-union contractor or open shop. There are good union contractors, there are good open shop contractors and just as in life there are skunks on both sides of the fence.

The biggest issue with union contractors for a worker is trying to get a job as a union apprentice. Even in areas of high employment for the trades they limit apprentices. 

BUT if you are in a high employment area getting in the union is a better route. BUT I would do some research and see what the local IBEW's employment is like, 12 months a year, 9-6-3-1, NONE?


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

"You just have to learn to stand up for yourself, know when it's time to approach the Foreman for a change, and learn all you can outside of work. The best guys I know, union or not, created opportunities, they didn't sit around and wait for someone to place them neatly in their lap."

That is damn well said and so true. In life as well as on the job.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

FaultCurrent said:


> "You just have to learn to stand up for yourself, know when it's time to approach the Foreman for a change, and learn all you can outside of work. The best guys I know, union or not, created opportunities, they didn't sit around and wait for someone to place them neatly in their lap."
> 
> That is damn well said and so true. In life as well as on the job.


 I really feel in the Union one major benefit above all others, is the transfers from contractor to contractor were you get to work in a variety of fields in our trade.


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## flinnagin (Jun 23, 2015)

I am not sure what the ABC program is but I want to echo what I have heard a lot of people saying. Look out for yourself because no one else will. Truly if you want this go out there and hustle to get it. I have been an apprentice, employee and boss and let me tell you. The guy that busts his ass, proves he wants it and hustles it wins everytime.


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