# Bidding my first "bigger" commercial job



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Well it's bigger according to my norm. I recently got put into a large property management contractor list. I live in one of their properties and communicate with the companies owner here and there. So I suppose you could say if I bid correctly I may have an advantage. I would be changing out an 18 meter bank and 20 Federal Pacific panels. 

I'm trying to figure out how to approach this , shall I look at it by each unit and price it for a panel and meter change X 18? Or is their a quantity Discount I should apply or go higher for quantity/ commercial?

I really want to win this as I feel it will take me to the next step as far as credibility , experience and my portfolio. 

The owner actually called me and asked if I would meet him and offer a bid. I have some pictures he sent me , but will be looking at it in more depth next week and taking more pictures 


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Price the material, add a good markup, then price the labor like you would anything else. You _could _ discount the labor because the more you do, the quicker you will do them.

More importantly, don't blather too much about how you would approach the job to the owner. More than once I've lost a job by describing too many details, only to see the job done by someone else exactly how I described it.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> Price the material, add a good markup, then price the labor like you would anything else. You _could _ discount the labor because the more you do, the quicker you will do them.
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, don't blather too much about how you would approach the job to the owner. More than once I've lost a job by describing too many details, only to see the job done by someone else exactly how I described it.




Very good point ... I do this sometimes, give to much info.... 

By the owner I meant owner of management company 


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Well it's bigger according to my norm. I recently got put into a* large property management contractor list*. I live in one of their properties and communicate with the companies owner here and there. So I suppose you could say if I bid correctly I may have an advantage. I would be changing out an 18 meter bank and 20 Federal Pacific panels.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to approach this , shall I look at it by each unit and price it for a panel and meter change X 18? Or is their a quantity Discount I should apply or go higher for quantity/ commercial?
> 
> ...


I don't know what this means:* large property management contractor list*.

Is it a property-management suitable contractors list that is large ?

Is it a large-property management firm's contractor list ?

Or is it a property management firm that is large and has a list of contractors ?

&&&&

As a general rule, all property management types ( usually real estate agents ) make their bones by chiselling on expenditures.

This is not a market segment that has great appeal to me.

Be wary -- as I've heard tales of very slow paying players in that market, too. They achieve this miracle by way of paperwork hoops that you have to jump through.

If you miss a signature -- your money is held up. This will be by design.

%%%

As posted previously, you want recent buyers, new business tenants, as your primary niche.

Everybody else is 'pick-up' work... something to do in between.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

*Bidding my first &quot;bigger&quot; commercial job*



telsa said:


> I don't know what this means:* large property management contractor list*.
> 
> Is it a property-management suitable contractors list that is large ?
> 
> ...




Agree... new RE sales is what I gun for... what I meant is the management company has properties across the whole state and some out of state... I was put on as the EC for this specific region. 

They are the ones that take my $325 condo fee every month for my townhouse 


I've seen this Company do big projects including a 700K roof project in my community on the first and second phase townhouses... seemed to go smooth and I would definitely assume contractor was paid. Actually, I know he was because we get the statements and ofcourse the special assessment... I see your point as it may possibly take a while to get that payment 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

*Bidding my first &quot;bigger&quot; commercial job*

Not sure why this posted twice


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Property management can be a pain in said a-s . Slow paying and "you didn't dot this i so resubmit " and they hit you like that over and over . Not all are that way but lots are . 

I bid parts labor and a big misc for things you don't see like sheetrock repair or plywood backing etc . Then I give it to the boss man who adds profit and more mark up and overhead . THen we add more misc and exclude rental , saw cutting etc . discounts ONLY go to long term working partners . New boys get hammered . That way new ones get a taste of we don't f--k around . Then I go suck a-s and get job .


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I can see how some can be a pain.. the one I'm dealing with doesn't seem shady as they manage really high end communities and golf courses... I honestly don't think this will be an issue..... I've dealt with a few exterior repairs on my town home that were taken care of very fast and professionally...

Regardless , I want this job..... and will be placing a bid... all advice is good ... this doesn't seem to hard as it is the same thing 18-20 times . 


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

The high dollar management is the worst IMO . If you can make it assembly line work it can go real quick . Good luck brother !!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Well it's bigger according to my norm. I recently got put into a large property management contractor list. I live in one of their properties and communicate with the companies owner here and there. So I suppose you could say if I bid correctly I may have an advantage. I would be changing out an 18 meter bank and 20 Federal Pacific panels.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to approach this , shall I look at it by each unit and price it for a panel and meter change X 18? Or is their a quantity Discount I should apply or go higher for quantity/ commercial?
> 
> ...


We don't know if you are in the poor south right to poverty states or in the producing part of the country but, here goes;
I would be a 2k per meter just knowing my cost and the money that can be made due to being able to distribute the cost over several units.
The interior panels are maybe 100 amp so, you can go production on those and break even on the first few as a learning curve and then be on the money side pretty quick.
I always find access a problem with 80% of the units being cake, the next 15% a challange and the last 5% being the turds in your punch bowl claiming damage and theft.
I do those interior panel changes with a $200 material allowance and for us, about $150 in labor. That's about 3 or 4 per man per day depending on the units and access.
You should be at about 2k per meter and $800 per interior panel here in the poor right to poverty south. 2x your labor in the producing states.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

$2800 is the lower end ? I honestly didn't expect it to be that high. The AVG cost of a 100 to 200 Amp service upgrade 


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Don't do a job bigger than you can afford to loose on / not get paid.
Sometimes it's big enough that things need to be temped in while the service meters are rebuilt. Like if it was an 18 meter bank all connected together that needs changing.
Don't provide a discount for volume. Odds are the supply house is not giving you much of one. Besides the delay in payout and logistics of getting in every unit.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

My dad works for several property management companies and often I listen to him bitching about having not been paid for work he did six months ago. He always gets paid, but he has to float the expenses for a long time.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

By the way, don't let the "status" of the job cloud your judgement in bidding. I wouldn't hesitate to ask for their payment terms and references before bidding a job that will have you buying a large materials order up front. And work progress draws into you bid to cover the equipment as soon as it's delivered.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

active1 said:


> Don't do a job bigger than you can afford to loose on / not get paid.


I don't like that comment at all. Hell if I would have started out with that idea I would still be doing nothing but services and service calls. Which I still do everyday but Sometimes a young company needs that one big job to really get you jump started. Now if you have bad feeling then you skip it. I am guessing that PM company will be slow to pay but they will pay. 

On to the actual job. The thing you need to make sure is that you have the manpower and ability to change that meter bank and get everything reconnected in one day. If not you are going to have a very unhappy customer and will not be working for them again. Might even be paying for 18 motel rooms. 
Don't forget about the updated grounding that will be required for that new meter center if it is not already there. 

I would be around $13-$15K if I wanted it. if not closer to $20


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I don't like that comment at all. Hell if I would have started out with that idea I would still be doing nothing but services and service calls. Which I still do everyday but Sometimes a young company needs that one big job to really get you jump started. Now if you have bad feeling then you skip it. I am guessing that PM company will be slow to pay but they will pay.
> 
> On to the actual job. The thing you need to make sure is that you have the manpower and ability to change that meter bank and get everything reconnected in one day. If not you are going to have a very unhappy customer and will not be working for them again. Might even be paying for 18 motel rooms.
> Don't forget about the updated grounding that will be required for that new meter center if it is not already there.
> ...



Some times gambling works out well for a business.
Fred Smith founder of Fed Ex took the companies last $5,000 to the blackjack tablrs in Vegas. Won enough money to turn the broke company around.

Every job is a risk. Taking 1 job that would bankrupt you if it goes South is worse then the table games at the casinos. Some GCs go as far as looking to hire a weak company that would be more cost effective to crush than pay.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

active1 said:


> Some times gambling works out well for a business.
> Fred Smith founder of Fed Ex took the companies last $5,000 to the blackjack tablrs in Vegas. Won enough money to turn the broke company around.
> 
> Every job is a risk. Taking 1 job that would bankrupt you if it goes South is worse then the table games at the casinos. Some GCs go as far as looking to hire a weak company that would be more cost effective to crush than pay.


Gambling has nothing to do with what I said.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

*Bidding my first &quot;bigger&quot; commercial job*

I have all the details and pictures , if anyone with experience with this type of work would be willing to help put a thorough bid together through email.. I could compensate for your time... even if I don't win it , it will be a learning experience bidding it. 

I originally said 18 but it's actually 18x3 buildings plus 1 common for each

57meters/57panels 

Panels are all the same 

It's the strategy and bid for the meter bank I need help with....pricing and figuring out the method to maintain power for each unit and the common meter

I'm not looking for a pinpoint bid, just looking for a ballpark base I can work off of and figuring out job logistics 

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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Edit the last text , decided it would be best to partner up with another small EC as I take on this project 


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I would bid it to prove you wont ever take bottom dollar so you start the relationship out right. Plus you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and lose money.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Majewski said:


> I would bid it to prove you wont ever take bottom dollar so you start the relationship out right. Plus you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and lose money.




Definitely not wasting my time.. I am bidding phase 1,2,3 with another EC which will be 57 Meter banks. I am bidding phase 4,5,6 alone which will be 57 panels.. if there is no money to be made, no point in doing it [emoji1303] 


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

WronGun said:


> Definitely not wasting my time.. I am bidding phase 1,2,3 with another EC which will be 57 Meter banks. I am bidding phase 4,5,6 alone which will be 57 panels.. if there is no money to be made, no point in doing it [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How do you know if there' money to be made if you don't know your costs?
How are you determining that?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Definitely not wasting my time.. I am bidding phase 1,2,3 with another EC which will be 57 Meter banks. I am bidding phase 4,5,6 alone which will be 57 panels.. if there is no money to be made, no point in doing it [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do not bid this with another contractor. I repeat, do not bid this with another contractor. 
You can work for him or he can work for you but I am telling you if you try to do this together one of you is going to be pissed in the end.


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## ElectricMetalTuba (Mar 20, 2017)

Are you really good at this type of work? If you are, they know it will cost them. Just be sure you do premium work. Focus on that and do your homework on the existing setup. You have the advantage of being able to go in and look at every suite. Look for worst possible scenarios. Its not a material intensive job. Prepare so you will not be heading to the wholesaler for something that broke off. Bring your own cleaners. The key is to look professional. You cant charge premium rate if you appear half assed to the residents. The biggest thing on the minds of management is how to keep the residents quiet through all this. They will pay extra for you to do the job well, like you were never even there. Look at the job in detail to pull it off smooth.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

*Bidding my first &quot;bigger&quot; commercial job*

Great advice .... The job bid is almost finished. I recently went for the second and final walk-thru to gather remaining details...

Little did I know with pictures and information the electric supply draws up the new design and puts the material cost together , which is now complete. 

After setting up and appointment with my accountant on how to proceed with these type of dual partner scenarios... I am now ready to proceed..

It's simple he will have to be my sub. And all taxes , fees , comp , etc. will be figured before payout...Including the accountant fee for structuring it all.... 

I'm less than 2 months away from my master exam , which I thought im supposed to be a master to sub....

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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

WronGun said:


> Great advice .... The job bid is almost finished. I recently went for the second and final walk-thru to gather remaining details...
> 
> Little did I know with pictures and information the electric supply draws up the new design and puts the material cost together , which is now complete.
> 
> ...


I have been a sub to other EC's and other EC's have been a sub to me. That's the only way it works. There can't be two alpha dogs.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

99cents said:


> I have been a sub to other EC's and other EC's have been a sub to me. That's the only way it works. There can't be two alpha dogs.




Unless your entity is set up that way... I've spent 13 yrs working for massive contractors ... most of which had 200+ guys... none of these shops had only 1 owner.


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

> Little did I know with pictures and information the electric supply draws up the new design and puts the material cost together , which is now complete.


You let the supply house design it?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

*Bidding my first &quot;bigger&quot; commercial job*



cdslotz said:


> You let the supply house design it?




Supply house I use has their own in-house electrical engineers... I have this whole job on detailed prints right now 


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You would have made more on the tanning salon.....


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> You would have made more on the tanning salon.....




[emoji23] lol.... you wanted to help on that one , but not on this one ? ....


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