# Survey: MC or Conduit ?



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Here in New England we use a ton of MC cable. No doubt that his a lot of do with having a major MC cable manufacturer (AFC) close by. It is extremely rare to see an "all conduit" job, at least for branch circuits. Feeders are still predominantly EMT, though that is not always the case.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Neither. I pretty much stick with tubing.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

MC is always cheaper.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Neither. I pretty much stick with tubing.


That's the answer I would expect from Tool.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> That's the answer I would expect from Tool.


_Elevator Bob_ told me so.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

It seems like the Landlords used to be more strict about what got installed and it was their influence that got MORE conduit installed. (Anticipating turnovers a simple emt layout can be adapted to successive tenant uses)

Maybe I'm just imagining that but it seems like they just gave up the fight.
Who else will care? Almost all retail and office TI is still going to be re-done within 10 years (most within 5) and if that means a complete demo... so be it.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

480sparky said:


> _Elevator Bob_ told me so.


*Bob es muy importante!!*


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JayH said:


> *Bob es muy importante!!*


 
Can't afford a VCR?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I vote conduit or tubing like Ken says.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Can't afford a VCR?


HaHa!! Couldn't find another clip of that commercial in less than two minutes and didn't want to keep searching.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I vote conduit or tubing like Ken says.


I over ride your vote with MC cable.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I over ride your vote with MC cable.


 I over ride your vote, which over rode my vote for conduit.:thumbup:


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I prefer to use a little of both. I like to run a pipe with home runs to an area and then branch out in mc. To me this is the best of both worlds.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I over ride your vote, which over rode my vote for conduit.:thumbup:


 
I'll raise your overridden override with a second vote for MC.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

blueheels2 said:


> I prefer to use a little of both. I like to run a pipe with home runs to an area and then branch out in mc. To me this is the best of both worlds.


Since this is "cable land" here, we run a 12/4 or larger MC cable and then branch it out that way. :thumbup:

Well, back when multiwire circuits didn't need handle ties. :whistling2:


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Grimlock said:


> I'll raise your overridden override with a second vote for MC.


I'm overrideing your override with a vote for conduit.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Grimlock said:


> I'll raise your overridden override with a second vote for MC.


 :laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

chenley said:


> I'm overrideing your override with a vote for conduit.


 :clap:It is back even.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> :clap:It is back even.


My wife says conduit and so does her sister. Nobody said it had to be only electricians that could vote.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chenley said:


> My wife says conduit and so does her sister. Nobody said it had to be only electricians that could vote.


Anyone know what _Elevator Bob_ would vote for?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I vote for mc because my bending skills are lame and most of the time I am doing reno work. Trying to get conduit (ok, tubing) through the ceiling is a pain.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Mc is cheaper, but it's just that- cheap. I hate the stuff with a passion, it seems to me that mc has taken alot of skill out of our trade. So I vote conduit.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Really I'm like 50/50 on it. If it can be seen it's going in conduit. If it can't be seen then MC cable. Drop ceilings get conduit also, I hate running MC in them, can't ever seem to make it look nice.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Anyone know what _Elevator Bob_ would vote for?


 Fill me in who is elevator Bob?


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

chenley said:


> My wife says conduit and so does her sister. Nobody said it had to be only electricians that could vote.


My grandmas second cousins nieces boyfriends friend who lives next door to the one armed man said MC. So one more on the table for MC.

I'm still waiting on a reply from the one armed man...


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Grimlock said:


> My grandmas second cousins nieces boyfriends friend who lives next door to the one armed man said MC. So one more on the table for MC.
> 
> I'm still waiting on a reply from the one armed man...


Hey, that's my wife's father's second cousin twice removed. I'll give 'em a call and change their minds. :thumbup:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Fill me in who is elevator Bob?


He is the mayor and electrical inspector in Sandusky, Ohio. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Tubing is the way I go :thumbsup:

You can run a larger pipe for future upgrade.

Run MC and you are at a dead end.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> Mc is cheaper, but it's just that- cheap. I hate the stuff with a passion, it seems to me that mc has taken alot of skill out of our trade. So I vote conduit.


I bet MC was invented by a residential electrician. 99.9% of them hate conduit bending. How else to solve the problem than invent metal coated romex? Now the romex jockeys have a place in commercial.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I think the most cost-effective use of MC is in conjunction with EMT. I hate seeing 30+ pieces of MC entering a loadcenter.


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## JohnSham (Jan 7, 2010)

*Conduit*

We only do Conduit here. Everything is near a Pig, Horse, or Cow. We ran some today. It was a little cold -27F when I got to job, so we quit an hour or so ago. Hands froze.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Grimlock said:


> I bet MC was invented by a residential electrician. 99.9% of them hate conduit bending. How else to solve the problem than invent metal coated romex? Now the romex jockeys have a place in commercial.


I don't agree with that. :no:

You can buy all kinds of sweeps to make bends.. just need a ruler, hacksaw, and screwdriver :thumbsup:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I don't agree with that. :no:
> 
> You can buy all kinds of sweeps to make bends.. just need a ruler, hacksaw, and screwdriver :thumbsup:


Yeah, I love the pre-fab 1/2" 90­° elbows in HD.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

amptech said:


> I think the most cost-effective use of MC is in conjunction with EMT. I hate seeing 30+ pieces of MC entering a loadcenter.


 
It ain't pretty but it is actually still cheaper IMO.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Found it. Somebody said I was full of crap? Wait, I think everyone said I was full of that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HQBAIi9M5Y&feature=related

"Catch a Fish today and feed you family tonight....Learn how to catch one and feed you family forever"


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

JohnSham said:


> We only do Conduit here. Everything is near a Pig, Horse, or Cow. We ran some today. It was a little cold -27F when I got to job, so we quit an hour or so ago. Hands froze.


You run conduit too? Please stay away from electrical work.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> He is the mayor and electrical inspector in Sandusky, Ohio. :thumbsup:


 Ok, is he the guy that sham wow was talking about?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Grimlock said:


> I bet MC was invented by a residential electrician. 99.9% of them hate conduit bending. How else to solve the problem than invent metal coated romex? Now the romex jockeys have a place in commercial.


:sleep1:...I have done mainly resi, but I love it when I get a chance to do commercial work with tubing....it's almost fun to do.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> :sleep1:...I have done mainly resi, but I love it when I get a chance to do commercial work with tubing....it's almost fun to do.


Welcome to the .1%


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Grimlock said:


> Welcome to the .1%


I feel like I'm doing real electrical work.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Grimlock said:


> It ain't pretty but it is actually still cheaper IMO.


Do the math. (5) 100' home runs of 12-2 MC costs roughly $375.00.
(1) 100' home run of 3/4" EMT containing (11) conductors will serve the same electrical devices/equipment for less than $175.00. and that is just a materials cost comparison.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

amptech said:


> Do the math. (5) 100' home runs of 12-2 MC costs roughly $375.00.
> (1) 100' home run of 3/4" EMT containing (11) conductors will serve the same electrical devices/equipment for less than $175.00. and that is just a materials cost comparison.


 
It really depends on what you are wiring. If you are carrying the homeruns pretty far out there then yes, you are right.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I feel like I'm doing real electrical work.


 Are you speaking of commercial work?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

william1978 said:


> Are you speaking of commercial work?


yeah


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> yeah


 I would have to agree with you.:thumbsup:


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCat...lpreview=true&token=66&desc=Armorlite+Type+MC


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## nyerinfl (Dec 1, 2007)

Pipe is for feeders and larger type equipment, vote MC for 20A circuits, and some 30s. Labor costs by doing pipe strongly outweigh the additional material cost of MC. 
If you pipe 6 HRs 50' and branch out from there by the time you run pipe, pull wire, make up your boxes with their branch cables I've got those HRs plus 10 more pulled.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Better*

Better yet

http://www.prolinesafety.com/UserFi...AC Cable (Circuit Sizes)/AIA TYPE MC (MC).pdf

If I had to do pipe....I'd have to dig deep and pay out $18hr and it would take 3 times the man hours. this stuff I can get electrical technicians for $9 hr


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

Well since the question was 'which is better for money'.....and not which we like to run.....

MC is better for money.....get it pulled and makeup and go.
Pipe....measure, run, measure, bend, cut,etc.....then pull ckts.....then make up.


So yea......*MC *is better for *$$$$!!:thumbup:*


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Better yet
> 
> http://www.prolinesafety.com/UserFiles/File/Downloadable%20Specifications/Type%20MC%20&%20AC%20Cable%20(Circuit%20Sizes)/AIA%20TYPE%20MC%20(MC).pdf
> 
> If I had to do pipe....I'd have to dig deep and pay out $18hr and it would take 3 times the man hours. this stuff I can get electrical technicians for $9 hr


Stop bragging about how cheap you are. I think Robnj is right-you are a whore.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Mc is cheaper and faster, but pipe looks a lot better. Plus I hate all the oil on MC.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You can't run MC between trusses and make it NOT look like a place to hang your socks :laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> Mc is cheaper and faster, but pipe looks a lot better. Plus I hate all the oil on MC.


 Let it ride around in the back of your truck while it is raining.:jester:


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

I get all my stuff delivered to site in box truck. 

Solution if not:

http://www.southwire.com/products/ArmorliteTypeMCPVCJacketed.htm

Waterproof MC


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I usually let it sit in the burn barrel over nite. Dries real nice.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> I usually let it sit in the burn barrel over nite. Dries real nice.


 :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

amptech said:


> Do the math. (5) 100' home runs of 12-2 MC costs roughly $375.00.
> (1) 100' home run of 3/4" EMT containing (11) conductors will serve the same electrical devices/equipment for less than $175.00. and that is just a materials cost comparison.


The EMT can become labor intensive depending on what you're doing. 

I suppose it depends on the conditions.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Fill me in who is elevator Bob?


 
Some inspector dude D³ is taking advice from.

Hey, has Peter D chimed in on this subject yet?

If not, is zip cord an option?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> SoHey, has Peter D chimed in on this subject yet?


Yes. Once again, I will say to those who are complaining about how MC cable looks vs. conduit - you're the only one who notices it. Nobody else cares.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Yes. Once again, I will say to those who are complaining about how MC cable looks vs. conduit - you're the only one who notices it. Nobody else cares.


 
So........... zip cord is OK as well?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So........... zip cord is OK as well?


:furious:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yes. Once again, I will say to those who are complaining about how MC cable looks vs. conduit - you're the only one who notices it. Nobody else cares.


It all looks the same once the drywall or ceiling covers it up.


Nobody knows my 25 year old daughter wrote her name on the underside of the pan deck of the Target in San Ramon when she was nine except me, her, and her brother and sister.

Nobody else cares. Nobody. So sad.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> :furious:


 Are you and Ken not getting along today?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

This tread needs a poll.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> This tread needs a poll.


And a spell check.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> And a spell check.


 Have you joined the spelling police?:laughing:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Have you joined the spelling police?:laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


>


 Is that picture of Peter?


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

I actually had this book when I was a kid cause my dad was a police officer and my mom thought this book was cool.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> I actually had this book when I was a kid cause my dad was a police officer and my mom thought this book was cool.


 Thats too funny. Was your dad name Peter?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Same argument as emt vs. romex. Actually, mc is even easier to run than nm. 
Metal framing=not so many holes to drill.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Thats too funny. Was your dad name Peter?


Yeah, Peter J.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Conduit.

MC is sort of a 1 shot deal. Need another circuit, pull another MC. Is it in drywall then cut or fish. You need another switch leg or hot between a switch & box you SOL.

Someone cut the conductors too short or nicked a wire in a box, you just have to deal with it even if it's not code. EMT you can pull some slack from the other side or repull.

There were many buildings that were 80 or more years old that the conduit could still be reused. Pull out the old and pull in new conductors. Even with remodel work the pipe can many times be cut back and reused for something elce.

And nothing better then a home run or switch box after drywall using double connectors and nothing is labeled. Most of the time you have a bunch of blacks & reds that you don't know what is what. And the red from a 12-3 will go to one black, and another white should be reidentfied as a swich leg. It's has black insulation but it's 277v. I guess I saying with condiut conductor colors tend to be more accurate and it's common to have certain colors mean voltage, switch leg, or traveler. 

With conduit it can be a lot easier to trace where the circuit goes. Even in a small drywalled room, open a few boxes & tug on the wires. If it's farther away sometimes by banning on the pipe or running a fish tape thru it you can find the next box. With the commercial romex you need to start taking the splices apart to try to figure how things are connected.

Like it was said I do think it does take some of the skill out of the trade. Not that I haven't seen some bad EMT work.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

It's funny because these days i see a lot more "commercial" guys than "romex" guys. Sometimes my company hires some outside (commercial) helpers who just can't handle romex. Makes me laugh. I'm not trying to say I'm a picasso when it comes to bending pipe but damn.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is about the old armored cable that you could not cut with snips or side cutters.

In the 1899 & 1901 NEC they had the following requirements for armored cable:

48. Armored Cable
a. The armor in such cables must be at least equil in thickness and equil in strength to resist penitration by nails, etc., as the armor or metal coverings of metal conduits (see no. 49.b.).
b. The conductors .... must have an insulating covering, any filler used must be impregnated with a moisture repellant, the whole bunch of conductors must have a seperate insulating covering at least 1/32 ....


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> It's funny because these days i see a lot more "commercial" guys than "romex" guys. Sometimes my company hires some outside (commercial) helpers who just can't handle romex. Makes me laugh. I'm not trying to say I'm a picasso when it comes to bending pipe but damn.


I helped out some romex guys on a Habitat project. Those guys ran circles around me all morning. They finally stuck me infront of the panel and said see if you can handle this. They ragged on the almighty Union Superintendent all day.

I left with my tail between my legs.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

JayH said:


> I helped out some romex guys on a Habitat project. Those guys ran circles around me all morning. They finally stuck me infront of the panel and said see if you can handle this. They ragged on the almighty Union Superintendent all day.
> 
> I left with my tail between my legs.


Hell, once your in front of the panel it aint all that different. I can understand if someone has never run romex before, it'll take some time to learn.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I was told by my customer today that " You cant run flexible conduit [he is really talking about MC CABLE] in a garage because of building codes dont allow it to be in a wet environment."

I looked at him, somewhat confused, and said "if this MC cable, that has THWN conductors is getting wet in your garage - you have bigger issues"

His reply was "well we will see when the inspector comes monday"




~Matt


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

JayH said:


> I actually had this book when I was a kid cause my dad was a police officer and my mom thought this book was cool.


WAIT, your dad is Peter D. the hack, that explains a lot, I now understand many of your post!


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Waterproof*



TOOL_5150 said:


> I was told by my customer today that " You cant run flexible conduit [he is really talking about MC CABLE] in a garage because of building codes dont allow it to be in a wet environment."
> 
> I looked at him, somewhat confused, and said "if this MC cable, that has THWN conductors is getting wet in your garage - you have bigger issues"
> 
> ...


http://www.southwire.com/products/ArmorliteTypeMCPVCJacketed.htm


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> http://www.southwire.com/products/ArmorliteTypeMCPVCJacketed.htm


Are you a salesman for Southwire?


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Hell, once your in front of the panel it aint all that different. I can understand if someone has never run romex before, it'll take some time to learn.


 
What in the world is there to learn about running Romex? It looks to be as difficult as running extension cords?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wwilson174 said:


> What in the world is there to learn about running Romex? It looks to be as difficult as running extension cords?


 
Running romex is easy. Knowing where and what size and whether it's an AFCI circuit or a GFCI-protected circuit, and whether you can drill a hole in that LVL beam, and remembering the 1¼" clearance rule, and keeping track of the difference between the 14-3 for the stairway 3-way and the 14-3 for the smokes, and not pulling so fast you turn the sheath, and keeping track of firestops..........

Roping isn't just pulling rope. Performing heart surgery is easy, too, right?


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Running romex is easy. Knowing where and what size and whether it's an AFCI circuit or a GFCI-protected circuit, and whether you can drill a hole in that LVL beam, and remembering the 1¼" clearance rule, and keeping track of the difference between the 14-3 for the stairway 3-way and the 14-3 for the smokes, and not pulling so fast you turn the sheath, and keeping track of firestops..........
> 
> Roping isn't just pulling rope. Performing heart surgery is easy, too, right?


Heart surgery requires many years of study, college, then medical school, then an internship, then experience and dedication. You belittle all these things when you mention them in the same sentence as running Romex.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wwilson174 said:


> Heart surgery requires many years of study, college, then medical school, then an internship, then experience and dedication. You belittle all these things when you mention them in the same sentence as running Romex.


 
When working for a heart surgeon, he told me that heart surgery is not all that complicated, and that the average person could do it (assuming they could get past the blood and guts part). He was absolutely baffled by the complexity of the wiring in his house.

It's all the attendent functions that must be done that require the skill and training. For instance, what to do when something goes wrong or if something is not what is expected.

Running romex isn't just drilling a hole in a 2x4 and pushing romex through it, either.


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes, it is!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

wwilson174 said:


> Yes, it is!



:laughing:

No it's not ........ I call infinity. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wwilson174 said:


> Yes, it is!


 
So next time you rope a house, do nothing but drill holes and stuff NM into them.

Lemme know how that works when you're all done.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

wwilson174 said:


> Heart surgery requires many years of study, college, then medical school, then an internship, then experience and dedication. You belittle all these things when you mention them in the same sentence as running Romex.


 Anybody can perform heart surgery, that's easy. The trick is to do it successfully.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> Anybody can perform heart surgery, that's easy. The trick is to do it successfully.


Anybody can skydive as well.







At least once.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Anybody can skydive as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:icon_cheesygrin:


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> So next time you rope a house, do nothing but drill holes and stuff NM into them.
> 
> Lemme know how that works when you're all done.


The last time I wired a house I used 600 feet of EMT and it worked just fine. And I drilled no holes!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Anybody can skydive as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats a new smilie I haven't seen.:thumbsup:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

brian john said:


> WAIT, your dad is Peter D. the hack, that explains a lot, I now understand many of your post!


 
:furious:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> :furious:


:laughing: All of this started when you corrected my spelling.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Let's say you have a simple shell up-fit, engineered/sealed drawings.

3/4" EMT with #12 spec'd do you put in a note to the engineer or let someone know, the your going to MC it ?

How do You handle it ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

CADPoint said:


> Let's say you have a simple shell up-fit, engineered/sealed drawings.
> 
> 3/4" EMT with #12 spec'd do you put in a note to the engineer or let someone know, the your going to MC it ?
> 
> How do You handle it ?


 
Bid the EMT and Value Engineer the MC.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I've run into this before and the P.M. tells me they put it into their letter of intent when they submit the bid.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Bid the EMT and Value Engineer the MC.


 That happens a lot around here.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

william1978 said:


> That happens a lot around here.


 here in atlanta too..... unless the taxpayers are paying for it. nothing but the best for them. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Thats a new smilie I haven't seen.


 
I probably got a zillion of 'em you haven't seen.




Yet.

































I make 'em all at my Smiley Factory.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I probably got a zillion of 'em you haven't seen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is your factory called "TOOLS R US" ?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I probably got a zillion of 'em you haven't seen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is very true. Atleast once a week you put one up that I haven't seen.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Is your factory called "TOOLS R US" ?


 
No.

I call it the Care Factory.


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## nyerinfl (Dec 1, 2007)

CADPoint said:


> Let's say you have a simple shell up-fit, engineered/sealed drawings.
> 
> 3/4" EMT with #12 spec'd do you put in a note to the engineer or let someone know, the your going to MC it ?
> 
> How do You handle it ?


Talk to the GC about it, or put out an RFI to the arch/engineer, then qualify it in your proposal.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> http://www.southwire.com/products/ArmorliteTypeMCPVCJacketed.htm


Whats the link for doodie? I know what jacketed MC is for, and in my application - it was not necessary.

~Matt


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## marty (May 17, 2009)

*mc or conduit*

why dont you guys use SWA cable??
Seems a whole lot less bother.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Whats the link for doodie? I know what jacketed MC is for, and in my application - it was not necessary.
> 
> ~Matt


Methinks D³ is a Southwire sales rep. :whistling2:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*MC or Conduit*

I have not run MC cable as it is manufactured today. I did, last night talk with a Southwire distributor and he extolled the virtues of MC. It, apparently is a little more expensive but the labor savings regarding not working with an equipment grounding conductor in each box is supposed to be 20% to 30%. I am not 100% sold on cutting the aluminum ground off because the push-in..push-through connector is still somewhat loose...but the NEC says it is good enough. To me It reminds me that the NEC IS the bare minimum.
It is also apparent to me that if you use the MC connectors on a painted panel/box, you will have to grind the paint off for it to make a good connectiom.


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## nyerinfl (Dec 1, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I have not run MC cable as it is manufactured today. I did, last night talk with a Southwire distributor and he extolled the virtues of MC. It, apparently is a little more expensive but the labor savings regarding not working with an equipment grounding conductor in each box is supposed to be 20% to 30%. I am not 100% sold on cutting the aluminum ground off because the push-in..push-through connector is still somewhat loose...but the NEC says it is good enough. To me It reminds me that the NEC IS the bare minimum.


The aluminum bare wire is on AC cable, MC cable has an insulated grounding conductor, EMT on the other hand doesn't require a grounding conductor to be pulled.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

He may be talking about mc-ap....it doesn't have an equipment ground and the armor is listed as a ground.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

here is some more detail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrz5WrFuY0M


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*MC or Conduit*



NolaTigaBait said:


> He may be talking about mc-ap....it doesn't have an equipment ground and the armor is listed as a ground.


 He talked about MC feeders as well as branch circuits. It was mentioned that the aluminum wire is the only reason that the code allows the armor to be the equipment grounding conductor because it is in intimate contact with the armor thru out the length.


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## maqs01 (Jan 13, 2010)

conduit for homeruns and mc to branch


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*MC or conduit*



maqs01 said:


> conduit for homeruns and mc to branch


 Is that fact, or preference. To me, if it is deemed good enough for a branch circuit, why not the home-run? It's all about tripping the overload device quickly...If it won't do the job safely on a home run, I wouldn't use it on a branch circuit.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Is that fact, or preference. To me, if it is deemed good enough for a branch circuit, why not the home-run? It's all about tripping the overload device quickly...If it won't do the job safely on a home run, I wouldn't use it on a branch circuit.


Well, you could run a couple of roundhouses (in emt) to one location and then branch off from there. Or you could run a couple of 12-4's.
I guess it could be a preference.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

nyerinfl said:


> The aluminum bare wire is on AC cable, MC cable has an insulated grounding conductor, EMT on the other hand doesn't require a grounding conductor to be pulled.


I think the sales-person was talking about the MC-AP cable.


http://www.southwire.com/commercial/GroundingReliability.htm

Notice they have a picture of the Wynn, Las Vegas in the top left corner of the ad.
What is that left over from someones vacation?
I have not worked there I would guess that they hove no MC-AP at that location. The Wynn was contracted in 6/2002 and opened 6/2006. I believe the opening was just about the time MC-AP came out.

More about the cable:
http://www.iaei.org/magazine/?p=1465


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

active1 said:


> I think the sales-person was talking about the MC-AP cable.
> 
> 
> http://www.southwire.com/commercial/GroundingReliability.htm
> ...


When I go back to Vegas, i'll be staying at the Wynn...by far the nicest casino there.


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