# Panel Change tips?



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

In a perfect world you'd be able to swap the panels out without changing any of the original pipe but usually there is some sort of issue whether it be the new panels' knockout locations or simply the old pipe is just damaged or kinked. 
It all depends on the situation.

Pics?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Surface mount, I tend to favor landing the branch pipe in a 6x6xwhatever long gutter and nipple down (or up) to the panel.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Having a K/O kit will really help.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Biggest tip I can give: Charge more if there are conduits coming out in different directions.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

It is possible to change out a flush panel piped in from both ends without cutting out the wall if you reach up (and down) inside the wall, cut off the conduits with low profile tubing cutters, and connect short pieces of greenfield onto them.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Having a K/O kit will really help.


 Greenlee is what I use.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

#1 tip:





Hurry up:thumbsup:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> It is possible to change out a flush panel piped in from both ends without cutting out the wall if you reach up (and down) inside the wall, cut off the conduits with low profile tubing cutters, and connect short pieces of greenfield onto them.


Works like a charm. As long as the guy before you did his job.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

I know from experience that old middle school flush panel change-outs (1950's) work is a pain in the rear, even for 6 j-men on the job; we worked well into the a.m. on multiple change-outs over the weeks.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> I know from experience that old middle school flush panel change-outs (1950's) work is a pain in the rear, even for 6 j-men on the job; we worked well into the a.m. on multiple change-outs over the weeks.


Oh, yeah. Changing out a flush panel that was piped in without doing wall damage absolutely sucks. It takes forever, and it's downright difficult. When you're done, it is pretty satisfying, though.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Are any of these candidates for gut swaps or inserts that Cutler Hammer sells. While not cheap, I think the labor saved not having to remove the tub would be plus.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

I did a piped in panel change out last month. Surface mount Square D with about 20 conduits out the top and 1 out the bottom. Easiest panel change out ever. I was upgrading from a 30? circuit panel to a 42, so the back box is about 6" longer. But with the screw in end plates in the Square D panels, you just unscrew the end, put the new panel in place, cut one pipe on the bottom, and you're back in business. 

Every panel should interchange like this, saved me many hours of work


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> Are any of these candidates for gut swaps or inserts that Cutler Hammer sells. While not cheap, I think the labor saved not having to remove the tub would be plus.


Probably, if you're not making it any bigger than it already was. I'm not sure if CH is selling a bolt-on retrofit panel kit yet, though. That might be a deal breaker for many piped in panels.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> ........ It takes forever, and it's downright difficult. When you're done, it is pretty satisfying, though.


And the best part is........ stopping at the bank drive-through on the way home to deposit that big, fat check! 







​


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

If it's a flush mount panel w/ conduits, it's likely getting new guts installed. Hell, even if it's cabled, if it's flush I am going to try and leave the enclosure. 

In most cases, a can is a can. It's a steel box that houses the busing. If it's the right depth, I'm leaving the can in place.


I know, I'm going to hell. I'm not allowed to make simple decisions like screwing the bus components in place all by myself. Four screws takes a team of engineers to design.


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## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

Pics are not the best, wish I woulda got more of the panel pipe change out, the end result I did not take a pic of but the Romex coming into the top, was re-routed to not be seen and unfortunately the Feeds from the meter were to short for the panel so we had to Inline, one of them.





































Last Pic but not the end result...


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Looks like your conduits landed OK. It wasn't too pretty to begin with and it's in a basement so you get a little slack.

Another trick to keep in mind is that, if you are close to a concentric KO but not centered, you can remove a larger KO and use a washers to get some wiggle room.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I know, I'm going to hell.


See ya there


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Gotta say, the old panel didnt look to bad of shape, what was the reason for the change? More spaces?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparks134 said:


> Gotta say, the old panel didnt look to bad of shape, what was the reason for the change? More spaces?



They're Federal Pacific.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Wasn't that an old wives tale? It lasted this long already.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparks134 said:


> Wasn't that an old wives tale? It lasted this long already.



*All* electrical wiring worked just fine up until the fire started. :yes:

Federal Pacific.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Agent 86 says: AHA the old left the tools in the panel trick. :detective:


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Agent 86 says: AHA, the old; left the tools in the panel trick. :detective:


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## gmbjr (Mar 25, 2010)

new panel could have been wired neater....I'd never leave a new install looking like that....but hey what do I know....


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Another tip that I suppose is rather obvious.

Make sure to take a look at evrything in the panel and mark or note any unortodox wiring like colored wires for grounds/neutrals, switch legs passing thtough or 2 wire 240 circuits not identified. If there are any conduits with multiple MWBC's, be sure and note the phasing so you don't have to dig into the system and figure out what goes where.. It may not be corect but at least *you* didn't screw it up.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Another tip that I suppose is rather obvious.
> 
> Make sure to take a look at evrything in the panel and mark or note any unortodox wiring like colored wires for grounds/neutrals, switch legs passing thtough or 2 wire 240 circuits not identified. If there are any conduits with multiple MWBC's, be sure and note the phasing so you don't have to dig into the system and figure out what goes where.. It may not be corect but at least *you* didn't screw it up.


I always mark them with wht tape so I can write on it if needed.

I did a small change out and riped everything off, it took me longer to trouble shoot than the change out.

It can also cause the meter to blow when put back in..:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> ..............It can also cause the meter to blow when put back in..:whistling2:


Then make sure all the breakers, including the main, are off when you reinstall the meter.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Then make sure all the breakers, including the main, are off when you reinstall the meter.



They wont let us touch them down here. I have taken some out but never put them back in on change outs..


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## ohmega (Apr 19, 2010)

gmbjr said:


> new panel could have been wired neater....I'd never leave a new install looking like that....but hey what do I know....




Yea everyone thinks there work is best. :no:


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