# Labeling a panel



## caseyelectric (Oct 19, 2008)

Okay, I would like to hear how you guys label a panel-as in what do you write it on and how do you affix to the panel. In a residential application. Ive been doing it in the same area for over three years now and never had a problem with it till today. Same inspector past three years and we are on very good terms and has complimented how I do it in the past. The code says labeled in a permanent manner. Now i believe he is defining the code as he sees fit.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I either use the Ideal pre-typed stickers or my electronic label maker.
I used to just use pencil, but I guess this is his gripe?
Sometimes, if I really like you I'll print up a legend off my computer.......but you have to be really special for that to happen.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I hate vague terms and abbreviations.

I don't care to see things like DW, GG, LT and the like unless there's not enough space.

If I'm able to, I print labels using an spreadsheet.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Without knowing the specific loads, seems like alot of wasted circuit capacity there, Ken. A whole circuit for attic lights? A whole circuit for garage floods, and a separate circuit for other floods? Damn!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Looks smooth 480. 

I always use a pencil, never a pen, and that goes for you young guys coming up. Never use a pen or sharpie!! Mark 'em usually like "2nd floor rear bedroom" or, "master bathroom GFCI" etc, etc.

In older house I do the best I can and mark them as accurate as possible. Marking them by yourself can be a royal PITA if you're working in a home with basement panel, first floor, second floor, sometimes a 3rd floor and even a cupola (a large live-in cupola). Write small, and write as neat as possible because it might not be you who goes back there to do electrical work.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Without knowing the specific loads, seems like alot of wasted circuit capacity there, Ken. A whole circuit for attic lights? A whole circuit for garage floods, and a separate circuit for other floods? Damn!


The first pix is of an existing panel, so I just printed what was on the cover. I added some circuits so I just redid the labeling. That's one of two panels in a huge custom.

The second pix is of a garage addition with attic storage. Circuit for lighting is at HOs request.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

480, 

Do you print directly onto stickers? Avery? I use a spreadsheet for commercial panels I install and maintain. Label maker for residential, and pen for those panels that have been touched by 34 previous electrician.


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## Marshall175 (May 23, 2009)

I think that looks good...

very professional


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Yeah I hate to go into a house to troubleshoot a lighting circuit and the panel says lights and plugs, lights and plugs, lights and plugs. Also when 220v heat circuits just say heat. I try to be as clear as possible so when anyone wants to turn a certain circuit off, they will know which one does which. pet peeve of mine when someone spells lights, lites. Bugs me to no end.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> 480,
> 
> Do you print directly onto stickers? Avery? I use a spreadsheet for commercial panels I install and maintain. Label maker for residential, and pen for those panels that have been touched by 34 previous electrician.


I use Excel and adjust the cell sizes as needed.

I print directly onto Avery 8½x11 labels (#5265)


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## adam4all (Sep 14, 2008)

Your company logo is probably the coolest name/graphic I have ever seen for an electric company.

Someones got game!


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I hate vague terms and abbreviations.
> 
> I don't care to see things like DW, GG, LT and the like unless there's not enough space.
> 
> If I'm able to, I print labels using an spreadsheet.


Very Nice 480, looks great:thumbsup:


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## zappy (Mar 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I hate vague terms and abbreviations.
> 
> I don't care to see things like DW, GG, LT and the like unless there's not enough space.
> 
> If I'm able to, I print labels using an spreadsheet.


Whats a dust collector? Is that a 240v. shelf?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

zappy said:


> Whats a dust collector? Is that a 240v. shelf?


It collects dust.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

zappy said:


> Whats a dust collector? Is that a 240v. shelf?


Nope, it's a Hot Tub.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zappy said:


> Whats a dust collector? Is that a 240v. shelf?


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

We have "working" panel schedules, then when the job is ending we will have final schedules printed and installed. This is on large commercial/industrial jobs


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## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

I see more and more contractors using their computers to print out the schedules. Almost all of them have their company info and logos designed on the schedules.
With the changes in regards to how to label disconnects and panels, it is a good idea to have these schedules printed.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

480 sparky.,
Did you try to print out the phase colours in triphase format yet ? 


However for myself I do print up simair what 480sparky done but for my addtional twist I print in both Engish and French.

And if this load centre do run on 208 volts I will marked as well to forewarn if that is single phase or triphase setup.

Merci,Marc


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> 480 sparky.,
> Did you try to print out the phase colours in triphase format yet ?
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yes, I have a blank sheet for 120/208 as well as 480/277 3-phase panels.

Another thing I do, especially when there's more than two panels, is to combine all the circuits into one list, then alphabetize them and print it out as one. So anyone can look up "Refigeration Case #4" or "Parking Lot Lighting East" and locate the panel, then the circuit number. Kind of like a book index.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Yes, I have a blank sheet for 120/208 as well as 480/277 3-phase panels.
> 
> Another thing I do, especially when there's more than two panels, is to combine all the circuits into one list, then alphabetize them and print it out as one. So anyone can look up "Refigeration Case #4" or "Parking Lot Lighting East" and locate the panel, then the circuit number. Kind of like a book index.


 
C'est une de très bonne idée de le faire mieux que la poursuite d'oie sauvage partout!!

That is one of very good idea to do that better than wild goose chase all over the place!!

Merci,Marc


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Holy cats! You guys are light years ahead of me. I never even knew you could do this with a 'puter. But then I'm not really computer savvy anyway. My inspector wants things labeled permanently with a whole story for each breaker. Never enough room for that. I always use a pencil and he hates that. He always makes me change to permanent writing. Then when I go into some existing panel, it's impossible to write a description in the space someone has already written in. Maybe I'll have to figure out how to do this with a computer now.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Those panel labels are beautiful and I do printed panel schedules on mew construction.

For panel changes, by the time I get to the labeling, I am tired, dirty, hungry, dehydrated and generally spent, so I use a sharpie, a helper and cellphones.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Man, those labels are sweet. Our company will always have a printed directory in every panel, but it's just a sheet inside of a clear, plastic envelope affixed to the inside of the door.

As for the directory, that is a good idea. Again, at the top of said sheet, we'll have something like panel LP-2 fed by DP-3. But there is no overall book that would break down the whole system. Of course, most of our work is tenant based, so it hardly ever gets too complicated. Still, very, very nice.:thumbup:


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

If its a new commercial Installation I will print a panel legend. New residential gets my label maker treatment, and any service work or existing work gets pencil in the existing panel legend.


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## Benaround (May 5, 2009)

480,

How come you number from bottom to top ? Second pic.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Even though I have been told I have nice penmanship and write like "a girl", I don't write anything in a panel. I always use an electronic labeler. I am pretty much computer illiterate. I wish I knew how to print labels like Ken posted. That is NICE work. Thumbs up Ken!!!!!!


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

we label the hr- romex by circut number and location,then when i breaker the panel i write what the circuts are labeled ,,on the panel, in pencil.then i go to every circut and <with a plug and a single pole in a 2 g box with a disposal cord,plug wired correct and single pole,,hot on hot screw ground on s/l screw> plug my cord in with my plug tester in the plug,,if it reads good i flip the switch to cause a direct short and then go to the panel and see if its right,,if so i make a panel schedule for my boss and he prints it out...around here all heat units have to be labeled with numbers # 1 #2 etc. and location as well as diconnects.. and on floods all our houses are 20 circuts for floods only..


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

zen said:


> i go to every circut and <with a plug and a single pole in a 2 g box with a disposal cord,plug wired correct and single pole,,hot on hot screw ground on s/l screw> plug my cord in with my plug tester in the plug,,if it reads good i flip the switch to cause a direct short and then go to the panel and see if its right


Your a dumbass. Buy a circuit tracer. Your gonna hurt someone or yourself.


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

^ agreed...not a good way to do things...:no:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

knowshorts said:


> Your a dumbass. Buy a circuit tracer. Your gonna hurt someone or yourself.


 
I am not about to call someone a "dumbass", but don't directly cause a short to find a circuit. That's beyond more than "just not right".


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Your a dumbass. Buy a circuit tracer. Your gonna hurt someone or yourself.


 since im a dumbass why dont you explain how im gonna hurt myself or someone else..the plug and switch are in a 2g box with a switch plate on it and a 3 prong cord coming out of it, you plug it into a dedicated microwave outlet and turn the switch on yes it causes a direct short exactly the same way the appliance would and in doing it this way i am sure of the intgrity of the outlet, circut and breaker... if all 3 of them are correct the breaker trips correctly and the device and wiring are still opperational..this is only done on a trim out and only on circuts not being used...


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

zen said:


> since im a dumbass why dont you explain how im gonna hurt myself or someone else..the plug and switch are in a 2g box with a switch plate on it and a 3 prong cord coming out of it, you plug it into a dedicated microwave outlet and turn the switch on yes it causes a direct short exactly the same way the appliance would and in doing it this way i am sure of the intgrity of the outlet, circut and breaker... if all 3 of them are correct the breaker trips correctly and the device and wiring are still opperational..this is only done on a trim out and only on circuts not being used...


 
Just simply going further, why distress a breaker under a known bolted fault when you could have saved the breaker the distress and found the circuit otherwise???


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Just simply going further, why distress a breaker under a known bolted fault when you could have saved the breaker the distress and found the circuit otherwise???


 point well taken


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

zen said:


> point well taken


 
Can't you find it offline Zen?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

in 12,000 sq. ft. and larger houses my goal is to hot check every thing and make sure the circuts are correct so its a time frame issue,,plus kitchens w 12 or more circuts its just faster the way i was doing it.. i put the plug tester in to make sure its correct then flip the switch and go back to the panel and write it down..i know what you mean about wearing on the breakers my boss freaks when people flip breakers of and on,,like when youre halding one talking,,and arc fault breakers cant handle too many trips or they wont work,,


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## slowforthecones (Sep 13, 2008)

I use a rhino pro labeler and i also use a sharpie too sometimes.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Benaround said:


> 480,
> 
> How come you number from bottom to top ? Second pic.


It was a Siemens panel, which I normally don't install, but I did on this job to match the existing main panel.

The whole panel is rotated 180°, so the factory numbers are inverted. I did this because the panel is directly behind the meter/main, which is lower due to the finished grade outside. So I 'flipped' the panel to put the lugs on the bottom so I could use less copper to feed it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

zen said:


> ...,and arc fault breakers cant handle too many trips or they wont work,,


You're right. I think the manufacturers only test them for something like a million cycles. Stand with one in your hand, flipping it on and off while you're talking to someone, and you're down to 999,955 cycles of the handle left. :laughing:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Zen,

You said it yourself. You are at the outlet, you dead short, then you go to the panel. To use a circuit tracer, you are at the outlet and then you go to the panel. You're still walking back in forth, back and forth, and back in forth. You are not saving that much time by dead shorting it. 

If you can't afford a $25 circuit tracer, then why don't you leave all the breakers off, make a horseshoe with a small chunk of number 12 solid and then ohm out the breakers.

I am not going to apologize for what I called you. You're lucky I held back. This site is not an exclusive membership site. How many DIY's do you think lurk here trying to figure out how to save costs and wire their own basement or something? What you do is not safe at all.

Label you home runs when you pull them, and then all you will have to do is turn on the whole panel and plug test each outlet.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Zen,
> 
> You said it yourself. You are at the outlet, you dead short, then you go to the panel. To use a circuit tracer, you are at the outlet and then you go to the panel. You're still walking back in forth, back and forth, and back in forth. You are not saving that much time by dead shorting it.
> 
> ...


i didnt pull the home runs and sometimes i think someone forgets and just writes something on the romex when they pull it,,but your point is well taken and yes saying things that could be unsafe have no place here,this i will remember,,,calling me a dumb ass doesn't help me or you


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> calling me a dumb ass doesn't help me or you


But it entertains us :laughing:



I will occaisionally short citcuits to identify them. It's a last resort and only in certain cases. The older I get, the more it bothers me.

If I am labeling a whole house I just use a helper and cellphone. Turn on every light in the place and start flipping breakers. If I come across a mystery circuit, I don't lose any sleep over it. 90% is acceptable to me.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

THat $35 Ideal circuit tracer I bought has been worth its weight in copper......


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

ill check into the ideal tester and more times than not i am my helper..for the most part we have guys that wire the houses others that trim them and once its plugged ,switched ,over and under cabinet lights are done then what ever crews are free come and help with fixtures,,so i just try to make my part complete and accurate...but maybe its not the best way,, i have done it for a while without any problems and its alot faster than any other way,,but i get the point....


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

According to most manufacturers, after a breaker has interrupted fault-level current it should be replaced. I don't know if this is published or not, I've only heard of it from manufacturers reps. 

There may well be some validity here though, if a breaker has tripped on a short, it usually will fail a fall of potential test. 

Though I will admit, I've shorted a few of them out to locate which breaker fed which circuit.

Rob


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

micromind said:


> According to most manufacturers, after a breaker has interrupted fault-level current it should be replaced. I don't know if this is published or not, I've only heard of it from manufacturers reps.
> 
> There may well be some validity here though, if a breaker has tripped on a short, it usually will fail a fall of potential test.
> 
> ...


This is correct, and a great reason for a circuit tracer instead of intentionally tripping the breaker


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

You could also try one of these to help you find the circuits.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Store/RT/Circuit_Siren.htm


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## lectro88 (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm not gonna call you a DA. But I THUNKED it. Heres some free ideas other than circuit tracers, saves a few steps too. Plug a drill (nothing in chuck)one room, a corded radio (no batteries) playing loud enough to hear another room. different sounds each circuit, get it. for DIY lurkers if you hear both sounds its same circuit if all other breakers are off. I use P-Touch label maker from office depot or max 60-150 bucks depending on bells and whistles. I can print main title one line and smaller or larger print description on 2nd 3rd 4th line the same label. NICE :thumbup: 
No markers or pencils in my panels


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## lectro88 (Jul 13, 2009)

Ground faulting a breaker is Never a good option. I've seen 1200 amp GFCI main breakers trip cause of this. Shuts the whole building down, and if its occupied fire dept shows up. This can cost aLOOOOOOt $$$ commercially. Say it was headquarters of a major corp. multi story building. 1 minute can cost millions !! not as critical in Residential


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

lectro88 said:


> Ground faulting a breaker is Never a good option. I've seen 1200 amp GFCI main breakers trip cause of this. Shuts the whole building down, and if its occupied fire dept shows up. This can cost aLOOOOOOt $$$ commercially. Say it was headquarters of a major corp. multi story building. 1 minute can cost millions !! not as critical in Residential


 
Well, that doesn't mean it's NEVER a good idea. It means you should use your giant human brain.:thumbsup:

I was thinking more along the lines of a remodel on an empty building and you need to kill some hanging circuits so the demo guys can do complete their work.


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## jfwfmt (Jul 5, 2008)

*To Zen*

You will understand another reason it is a bad idea when you pop a bad wire nut connection in a junction box _somewhere_ and you spend 4 hours finding it.

/s/ Jim WIlliams


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

> Label you home runs when you pull them, and then all you will have to do is turn on the whole panel and plug test each outlet.


I thought everyone did this:blink: Seems foolish not to.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

You mean to say you guys don't just write "plugs and lights" at the top and draw an arrow pointing down for the whole panel? :w00t:


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You mean to say you guys don't just write "plugs and lights" at the top and draw an arrow pointing down for the whole panel? :w00t:


nah just Electrik stufff, then the arrow:whistling2:


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