# Propane Filling Station



## RandyM (Apr 5, 2012)

The AHJ or fire Marshall could define the area


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Like Randy said, it's best to consult with the AHJ. My opinion is that since propane is heavier than air and has a flash point that classifies it as a flammable you could use 514 as a guideline. 

To restate though, I would check with the AHJ, but around here they (AHJ) will tell you to get an engineer to put it on paper.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I believe it's 20 ft. I just got done wiring one of these. Is it going to have a card reader?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Look at Table 514.3 (B) (2) I think that's what you're looking for. You also have
to be careful to make sure the lighting is outside of that area if it isn't explosion proof.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Consult your Engineered drawings you bid from.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

wendon said:


> You also have
> to be careful to make sure the lighting is outside of that area if it isn't explosion proof.


Wouldn't that only apply to natural gas (which is lighter than air) and not propane (which is heavier than air) ?

I know if you are wiring canopy lights at a CNG filling station they need to be X-proof because the natural gas rises instead of falls.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Consult your Engineered drawings you bid from.


I've wired many a fuel site that did not have engineered drawings to bid from.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Wouldn't that only apply to natural gas (which is lighter than air) and not propane (which is heavier than air) ?
> 
> I know if you are wiring canopy lights at a CNG filling station they need to be X-proof because the natural gas rises instead of falls.


I think you're right. I think, if I'm not mistaken, that the zone for a LP dispenser is the same as a gasoline dispenser. I believe the units that come on a skid with the tank would have a different zone area possibly than if it's just a dispenser by itself on an island.


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## 4vets (May 7, 2012)

wendon said:


> I believe it's 20 ft. I just got done wiring one of these. Is it going to have a card reader?


that is the same exact thing i am going the only difference is its 2 tanks. And thanks for the input.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

4vets said:


> that is the same exact thing i am going the only difference is its 2 tanks. And thanks for the input.


Depending on the brand, you might need an extra pipe for a Cat5 cable. I installed the motor starter etc. outside of the 20' area.


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## 4vets (May 7, 2012)

Yes I have to run a separate pipe for the twisted pair.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

4vets said:


> I am going to be doing the wiring for a new propane filling station used to fill vehicles so it has a dispensing unit. My question how far away does my VFD how to be from the tanks if its not explosion proof, 25 feet? I have been looking in article 500 but cant seem to find where it gives me the distance. from my understanding the filling station is a class 1 division 1 item. thanks for any help and pointing me in the correct direction.


Pipe and seal em. Run VFD from electrical room area


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I was looking at that setup again and I was wondering, why would that use/need a VFD?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I was looking at that setup again and I was wondering, why would that use/need a VFD?


Maybe 3 phase isn't available? Just my guess.


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## 4vets (May 7, 2012)

nolabama said:


> Pipe and seal em. Run VFD from electrical room area


No run in the electrical room its just big enough to open the door and turn sideways to look at the panel plus they bought a nema 3r to be outside next to the filling station.



wendon said:


> Maybe 3 phase isn't available? Just my guess.


yes you are correct no 3 phase and the motor is a 3 phase motor.

called the local electrical inspector and he did not have a clue about any of it. I have a call into the local fire marshal now just waiting on a return call.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Propane transfer stations in NJ don't come under the local AHJ, instead responsibility falls on the NJDCA, same as hospitals, nursing homes and amusement parks. Always needed detailed plans for review to submit with application.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

4vets said:


> No run in the electrical room its just big enough to open the door and turn sideways to look at the panel plus they bought a nema 3r to be outside next to the filling station.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What brand are you installing? It's a little different than a standard gas dispenser because you don't have a sump beneath the dispenser, at least the one I installed didn't. We ran a Cat5 back to where the panel, starter etc. are located and then connected to a wireless system for the card reader. It's kinda crazy with the Cat5 because, by code, you need to remove the outer jacket where it's in the seal offs and separate the twisted pairs before you pour them. You also need to make sure that the seal offs inside the dispenser unit are poured!


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

wendon said:


> What brand are you installing? It's a little different than a standard gas dispenser because you don't have a sump beneath the dispenser, at least the one I installed didn't. We ran a Cat5 back to where the panel, starter etc. are located and then connected to a wireless system for the card reader. It's kinda crazy with the Cat5 because, by code, you need to remove the outer jacket where it's in the seal offs and separate the twisted pairs before you pour them. You also need to make sure that the seal offs inside the dispenser unit are poured!


Did you actually remove the jacket. I have never.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

nolabama said:


> Did you actually remove the jacket. I have never.


I have done it on a handful (but not all)...I think it is supposed to be done on 1Pr, 1Tri, etc belden wires too..


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Never on a beldon with that grounding jacket. Wow your better than I am if you did that. You pull the conductors and mark em in the seal? Pull out and strip and put back? Yeah not gonna start that nonsense.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

nolabama said:


> Did you actually remove the jacket. I have never.


I did but I think it's crazy!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I didn't use the shielded cable, I just used a piece of direct burial Cat5. Pulled it in, marked it, pulled it out both sides and stripped the area in the seal off.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

wendon said:


> ... and stripped the area in the seal off.


I think they don't make you strip the outer jacket anymore.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I think they don't make you strip the outer jacket anymore.


I think the code is kind of murky on this issue. 501.15 (D) (1) has an exception. What is an "approved means" of terminating the cable. If you crimp on an RJ45 is that an approved means? Bubble gum?


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