# "Fate of the trade unions"



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I read it. It was a good read.


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## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

Interesting read...

Frank


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I skimmed it and while the author seems to trying to make sense and look at things from a larger standpoint I can't help but notice they keep saying things like _'our work'_ they are taking _'our work'_ we are loosing _'our work'_.

The 'work' does not belong to anyone, the work is out there for anyone to go after and if you can't provide what the customer perceives as value you will not get that work.

I don't mean you have to be the cheapest but you do have to provide real value. In some cases and areas the union training gives the union an edge in that area. They union costs more but their members have better training then the non-union counterparts.

However that is not the case in all areas, where I am there are merit shops that have just as well trained workers as the locals and we don't bring the baggage to the job that the union often does.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Their Exclusionary practices did them in,, thats what the local still does thats what they did during the big dig that was their best chance to grow and they stuck their noses up at the chance..

They talk about that in the first 2 pages.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I skimmed it and while the author seems to trying to make sense and look at things from a larger standpoint I can't help but notice they keep saying things like _'our work'_ they are taking _'our work'_ we are loosing _'our work'_.
> 
> The 'work' does not belong to anyone, the work is out there for anyone to go after and if you can't provide what the customer perceives as value you will not get that work.
> 
> ...


 How many times have we heard someone say "I just lost *my* job" how many times have we said it ourselves?Its not "my" job the job belonged to the employer it was his to do with as he wanted. The one statement you gleened from your "skim" was not meant to imply that "our work" was exclusive or that Union trained electricians were the only ones capable of preforming it."Our work " is simply a statement that denotes electrical work that has traditionally been preformed by Union electricians who have spent years attaining the knowledge and skills to preform that work.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

"Our work"

Has always come off as hard handed, break the legs of those not in the local.

Like it or not this is the image the union has presented to the public. Until they do better PR, the majority of workers (that are not union) will see them as the bad guys.

In the GE post, GE counters with big TV and newspaper ads, to sway the public. Wg=hat do the unions do? They continue to grease the palms of the Democrats THAT DO NOTHING FOR THE UNIONS, because they know no matter what they do not do, the union is theirs.

As for my job, it was your job, you worked it, you got paid for it.

As for our work, everything in America ain't your's just because you dream of it.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> "Our work"
> 
> Has always come off as hard handed, break the legs of those not in the local.
> 
> ...


 Now this stereotype fits the agenda of the anti union crowd when was the last time you read of anyone getting thier legs brokenunfortunatly to many brain dead people believe if you see it on the net and it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Now this stereotype fits the agenda of the anti union crowd when was the last time you read of anyone getting thier legs brokenunfortunatly to many brain dead people believe if you see it on the net and it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.


Perception is everything. And at this point in time Americans perceive unions as the bad guys. Now paint it anyway you'd like. But Open shops are not getting blamed for some of the mess we are in. 

I am not saying it is the unions problem either, just stating how it is PERCEIVED.

Is your company union?


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> Now this stereotype fits the agenda of the anti union crowd when was the last time you read of anyone getting thier legs brokenunfortunatly to many brain dead people believe if you see it on the net and it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.


 The general public like to compare the trade unions with the UAW or the Teamsters. You either produce or you get sent back to the hall. Too many times and they put you on book four. In the electical field, even the owners of the contracting firm belong to the union. It's only good business practice.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> Perception is everything. And at this point in time Americans perceive unions as the bad guys. Now paint it anyway you'd like. But Open shops are not getting blamed for some of the mess we are in.
> 
> I am not saying it is the unions problem either, just stating how it is PERCEIVED.
> 
> Is your company union?


 yes we are union i think the biggest mistake the unions made was assuming everyone understood the need for unions. wWhen the cold war ended thier were some who questioned the need for a standing military we had not know war for a decade.Today we have raised a generation that is far remove from the struggles of the labor movement they believe a forty hour week is a "right" that overtime is gaurenteed and workplace safety is assured.We have a society that would stand and watch thier neighbor dragged from thier home because they were not comming for them.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> yes we are union i think the biggest mistake the unions made was assuming everyone understood the need for unions. .


 
And this is where a good public marketing plan would advance the union and break the old stereotypes.

That and trying to get members to address open shop men in a positive way, educating them on all the benefits of the union and not addressing them as scabs.

I think it would be money well spent.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> And this is where a good public marketing plan would advance the union and break the old stereotypes.
> 
> That and trying to get members to address open shop men in a positive way, educating them on all the benefits of the union and not addressing them as scabs.
> 
> I think it would be money well spent.


 In our state the IBEW has been trying a positive marketing approach with radio and billboards showing the advantage of skilled union labor.

I think this is being addressed in comet classes


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Their Exclusionary practices did them in,, thats what the local still does thats what they did during the big dig that was their best chance to grow and they stuck their noses up at the chance..
> 
> They talk about that in the first 2 pages.


Nothing has changed. IMO.


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## RobTownfold64 (Mar 17, 2011)

A few months ago I went to the big IBEW Forum called IBEWFriendsAndFamily.

If there was even one electrical discussion there I would be surprised, because I couldn't find it.

The entire forum is basically IBEW members complaining how hard they have it, how so many things that "Brothers" do are "wormy" (such as carrying tools in a pouch, getting to work on time, putting in a full day of hard work, etc.), and how no one "Brother" should ever be kept by a contractor after a job is over and excel over another "brother". And that's not even talking about the thuggery, both towards non-union people and "brothers" alike. They take "doubling booking" more seriously than their actual electrical work.

It was pretty depressing, that's the majority of the union membership right there. Of course their are a lot of other great workers, but they will always be held down by "The Brotherhood" and there is really no change in site.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Now this stereotype fits the agenda of the anti union crowd when was the last time you read of anyone getting thier legs brokenunfortunatly to many brain dead people believe if you see it on the net and it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.





> it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.


Yup Talk radio Killed the Union....:laughing:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> And this is where a good public marketing plan would advance the union and break the old stereotypes.
> 
> That and trying to get members to address open shop men in a positive way, educating them on all the benefits of the union and not addressing them as scabs.
> 
> I think it would be money well spent.


I couldn't agree more with you Brian. The first thing they need to do is get rid of ED HILL. His arrogance defines the union. In a recent CD that was sent to all members he said I quote " if unions don't implement a ce/cw classification I will open a union in that district". What a pair of balls he has to threaten us.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

RobTownfold64 said:


> A few months ago I went to the big IBEW Forum called IBEWFriendsAndFamily...
> 
> It was pretty depressing, that's the majority of the union membership right there..


That's the tramps website. They are very far removed from the majority. Typically their fate is sealed after the first two-hours on a new job.

The majority, 80%, go to work every day, try to keep their job, and could give a sh1t less about the politics because they got more important stuff to deal with in life, like kids, and momma, the mortgage, and what not. Being able to come here and talk smack, and worry about the trade, is more or less, a luxury item.

I want what's best for the majority. The organization wants what's best for the organization. Often those needs conflict, but it's still the best thing going on right now.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

O one of the last jobs I workedthese were being passed out to the brothers


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I was there when the flea-daddy was revealed.

He got his manila envelope of stickers from cross-country, and passed them out to his butt buddys. His wife is one of the ugliest electricians I've ever laid eyes on. Total wood killer.

Everybody in the local absolutely hates the guy. I shouldn't have suspected it would be anybody else. Believe it or not, he came from out of town.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Now this stereotype fits the agenda of the anti union crowd when was the last time you read of anyone getting thier legs brokenunfortunatly to many brain dead people believe if you see it on the net and it gets heard on talk radio it must be true.


Lets be real.

I have heard first hand from people who got told;

1. "I know where you live."

And the one that would make even me upset, 

2."I know where your kids get on the bus in the morning."

Threats are not a good way to convince yours is the best way....

I do not care union/non-union. They both are good. It is a PERSONAL decision.

The union is not for everyone...It has been ok for me.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

mdfriday said:


> Lets be real.
> 
> I have heard first hand from people who got told;
> 
> ...


http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...art-distrubiting-flyer-devlopers-home-address

But of course this never happened...DID IT?


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

brian john said:


> http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...art-distrubiting-flyer-devlopers-home-address
> 
> But of course this never happened...DID IT?


:no: Yup, that didn't happen... Oh wait, um, how do you deny it once everybody knows....

Look for a new scare / diversion tactic....


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> The one statement you gleened from your "skim" was not meant to imply that "our work" was exclusive or that Union trained electricians were the only ones capable of preforming it.


I disagree with you and it seems many agree with my take on it.





> "Our work " is simply a statement that denotes electrical work that has traditionally been preformed by Union electricians who have spent years attaining the knowledge and skills to preform that work.


If you are happy lying to yourself and keeping you head planted firmly in the sand it does not bother me in the least.

The union will continue to lose market share are as long as folks with your mindset are a part of it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

mdfriday said:


> :no: Yup, that didn't happen... Oh wait, um, how do you deny it once everybody knows....
> 
> Look for a new scare / diversion tactic....


 
Noah denied it happened!


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

To be straight forward, I'll say that that read like a 15 page coulda, shoulda, woulda. I pictured one large collective teardrop rolling down down the cheek of the 309 when I read that.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

brian john said:


> Noah denied it happened!


Speaking of him.

I am surprized he hasn't chimed in with his wonderful wisdom to set this thread straight. :laughing:

Maybe he still has his head suck in a block of cheese in Wisconsin ... :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Speaking of him.
> 
> I am surprized he hasn't chimed in with his wonderful wisdom to set this thread straight. :laughing:
> 
> Maybe he still has his head suck in a block of cheese in Wisconsin ... :laughing:


 
I am sure Noah is reading waiting to post his words of wisdom. His views are welcomed.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Union Jobs*

I have said many times on this forum that I am a strong UNION guy but I am not that way at any cost. I believe in "workers" rights and I will fight for that. Part of "worker's rights" is protection from an employer taking advantage of a worker who is not BRAVE enough to complain about something that is wrong, possibly dangerous on a work site. I also believe that an otherwise good employee, who makes a mistake, should be given another chance. I do not like our unions taking our money and dabbling in politics.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

mdfriday said:


> Lets be real.
> 
> I have heard first hand from people who got told;


 I know a guy whos cousin wored for a guy that had a brother who was sitting next to a guy on a train that was being driven by a guy whos son said the same thing:whistling2:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...art-distrubiting-flyer-devlopers-home-address
> 
> But of course this never happened...DID IT?


 this crap goes on everywere and is done by different folk


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> I know a guy whos cousin wored for a guy that had a brother who was sitting next to a guy on a train that was being driven by a guy whos son said the same thing:whistling2:



Would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on?


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on?


 the medal :thumbsup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> this crap goes on everywere and is done by different folk


Maybe it's just me, but man she looks good with a gun.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> this crap goes on everywere and is done by different folk


With a case of denial such as your I have to ask .................... :Are you Noah?

Because you are starting to sound that silly.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Maybe it's just me, but man she looks good with a gun.


 She sure does..:thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on?





Mr Rewire said:


> the medal :thumbsup:



Your request has been granted. :laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> With a case of denial such as your I have to ask .................... :Are you Noah?
> 
> Because you are starting to sound that silly.


 what exactly am I in denial about? I know thats a cutsie catch phrase used by those who are failing in their argument much like the oft used " you just don't gey it" . Crack a history book and look at the true head bashing that was done to those in the early labor movement then point to one person that has come to any physical harm by those who protest today.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Your request has been granted. :laughing:


 I know you have several of those so you wont miss this one:laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

bikini babe


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

A few years back the local boilermakers were locked out of a local plant. Lots of threats were made (a few to me, and friends, long story), and several homes of temp workers were shot at. Just one more in the long line of BS from the union that makes me swear to never jion another.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> bikini babe


 
Can you cut it out with the political photoshoped BullSh!t 

So this thread can stay open


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

just one more non political


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> just one more non political


The woman is a gorgeous, intelligent person and I am not offended.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Palin is alright in my book, not a statesman by any reach, but probably good for state representative or equivalent.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)




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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


>


Ewww.... but better than staring into the eyes of Morgan Freeman!


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)




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