# Copper has black residue flakes



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I received a phone call from a home inspector regarding black residue and black flakes on all the copper conductors inside the panel. I went there today and noticed that all the bare copper conductors were turning black. It is a 400 amp service with 2 200 amp main breaker panels. When panel as black residue on all and any exposed copper is turning black and there are black flakes on the bottom if the panel. But the other panel next to it doesn't. Never seen anything like this. As anyone else??

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## greengoat (Sep 6, 2008)

sewge pump hard piped in?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Any of that Chinese drywall mixed with sulfur on the walls nearby??

What you see is a chemical reaction to fumes from something..


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

B4T said:


> Any of that Chinese drywall mixed with sulfur on the walls nearby??
> 
> What you see is a chemical reaction to fumes from something..


But, one panel has it and the panel next to it doesn't. The only thing I noticed is that there was some silicon inserted into a PVC conduit. Very unusual.

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## ohmega (Apr 19, 2010)

That must be a hell of a stereo to need it's own HR. :thumbsup:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Not so sure if that is oxidation, could ne but could also be from overheating. Did you check torque on the lugs? Take any IR readings? Voltage drop across the breaker? Measure load?

Or, headed down the oxidation road, any sulphur sources in the area? Chlorine maybe?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Zog said:


> Take any IR readings?


IR readings on a residential panelboard? :lol: 

Seriously, all but the largest of EC's or speciality contractors can afford and make use of an IR camera. I know it's par for the course in your line of work, but for the vast majority of us it never comes into play.


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## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

looks like some chinese drywall issues...
Did it smell like sulfur at all when you opened up the panel?

http://www.chinesedrywall.com/sitebuilder/images/P1030414_edited-1-513x360.jpg


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## MikeAdams (Mar 29, 2010)

After katrina, We had a ton of wire that was in a cargo container that was flooded with salt water, all of the copper wire turned black...if you strip the insulation back is the copper discolored?


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

I see that a lot in the local waste water facility, due to H2S.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

The issue is that there are two panel in the same location one panel has it and the other doesn't which is very strange..

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Where does the conduit filled with silicone go?

Sniff all the conduit entry's.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

K2500 said:


> Where does the conduit filled with silicone go?
> 
> Sniff all the conduit entry's.


 It's a nipple conduit to an LB above the panel which I believe leads to the outside of the house.

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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I noticed black copper in some of my remote sites, the only thing in the shack is batteries, maybe hydrogen or sulfur gas?


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

drsparky said:


> I noticed black copper in some of my remote sites, the only thing in the shack is batteries, maybe hydrogen or sulfur gas?


That's my bet, corrosive gas ingress.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

K2500 said:


> That's my bet, corrosive gas ingress.


But why only one panel and not the other as illustrated in the 4 pics that I took. ?

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> But why only one panel and not the other as illustrated in the 4 pics that I took. ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


If I had to guess, possibly through a conduit or entry specific to that panel. 
If flush mount maybe a Chinese drywall repair adjacent to affected panel.
Waste water vent nearby? 
Does the conduit that goes out side feed the meth lab in the garage?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> The issue is that there are two panel in the same location one panel has it and the other doesn't which is very strange..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Were both panels installed at the same time?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I highly doubt every single connection including the EGC's are overheating. 



drsparky said:


> I noticed black copper in some of my remote sites, the only thing in the shack is batteries, maybe hydrogen or sulfur gas?





K2500 said:


> That's my bet, corrosive gas ingress.


Yeah probably, Hydrogen Sulfide seems to do that too copper, I've opened many a panel to find a sight just like that.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Hang a silver necklace on the wall and if it turns black, it's the drywall. If it's just inside the panel, it's a conduit letting in gases. 

Also, the N-G's under the same screw is a violation.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I received a phone call from a home inspector regarding black residue and black flakes on all the copper conductors inside the panel. I went there today and noticed that all the bare copper conductors were turning black. It is a 400 amp service with 2 200 amp main breaker panels. When panel as black residue on all and any exposed copper is turning black and there are black flakes on the bottom if the panel. But the other panel next to it doesn't. Never seen anything like this. As anyone else??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Loose connections.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Loose connections.


 
No friggin way. Look at the neutrals and grounds. They are identical color. Do you think they all overheated? and exactly the same temperature? No way.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Hang a silver necklace on the wall and if it turns black, it's the drywall. If it's just inside the panel, it's a conduit letting in gases.
> 
> Also, the N-G's under the same screw is a violation.


What effects has Chinese drywall had on electrical wiring systems that you know of?

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## MikeAdams (Mar 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Hang a silver necklace on the wall and if it turns black, it's the drywall. If it's just inside the panel, it's a conduit letting in gases.
> 
> Also, the N-G's under the same screw is a violation.


well if this is the first point on entrance, they should be bonded


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

House was built 3 yrs ago.

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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No friggin way. Look at the neutrals and grounds. They are identical color. Do you think they all overheated? and exactly the same temperature? No way.


Don't take it so personal. I am only saying that I have been at this for a long time and I have never seen the copper of any circuit turn the "blackness" that is shown that the problem wasn't loose connections. I am not saying that it is the same in this case but I would bet my sweet bippy on it. Just my opinion.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> What effects has Chinese drywall had on electrical wiring systems that you know of?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/Remediation031811.pdf


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## MikeAdams (Mar 29, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Don't take it so personal. I am only saying that I have been at this for a long time and I have never seen the copper of any circuit turn the "blackness" that is shown that the problem wasn't loose connections. I am not saying that it is the same in this case but I would bet my sweet bippy on it. Just my opinion.


I don't see how a loose connection on a ground would cause this unless there was a constant short sending current through the grounds....and even then it would just be first few inches...it is either a chemical reaction or the second panel was added at a later point and wire that had been wet for some time was used....I am betting of the former


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

IDK if this has any relevance but the homeowner has stated that his son has used the space to develop some black and white film.

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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MikeAdams said:


> well if this is the first point on entrance, they should be bonded


Wrong, they are under the same screw. Always a violation.


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## MikeAdams (Mar 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Wrong, they are under the same screw. Always a violation.



what article are you referencing?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> IDK if this has any relevance but the homeowner has stated that his son has used the space to develop some black and white film.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Well, maybe he used the "black" film when he took these shots.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Peter D said:


> IR readings on a residential panelboard? :lol:
> 
> Seriously, all but the largest of EC's or speciality contractors can afford and make use of an IR camera. I know it's par for the course in your line of work, but for the vast majority of us it never comes into play.


Not sure if this was posted already, but the OP recently bought a IR camera.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I find this interesting. I posted this on another forum I am part of (gold refining) there are a lot of people there with a better understanding of ele electrolysis and chemical reactions perhaps they will be able to suggest something. 

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9996

If that link isn't allowed please delete the link not the whole thread or post.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> But why only one panel and not the other as illustrated in the 4 pics that I took. ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum



What does the conduit with silicone feed? 

Whatever it feeds is likely the problem. 

The other panel does not have that problem because the conduit doesn't feed it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

1. If this was a thermal discrepancy there would be insulation damage.
2. I would have to say chemical.
3. Were both panels installed at the same time?
4. Possibly chemicals were utilized in the past when this was a single panel distribution.
5. My experience with blackened copper has all been at waste water plants.
6. I would inspect all connections.
7. If conductor length allows it cut and re-terminate conductors.
8. Perform a FOP test on all connections, use a load on each circuit like one or two hair dryers.
9. I did not read this but what does the panel bus look like?
10. Worst case for HO best for you replace panel.
11. As noted find what the sealed PVC feeds.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> Not sure if this was posted already, but the OP recently bought a IR camera.


I stand corrected then.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I stand corrected then.


You original post was correct and unusual that a resi EC would have a camera.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

gold said:


> I find this interesting. I posted this on another forum I am part of (gold refining) there are a lot of people there with a better understanding of ele electrolysis and chemical reactions perhaps they will be able to suggest something.
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9996
> 
> If that link isn't allowed please delete the link not the whole thread or post.


Chinese drywall was also the consensus there


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## muck (Jun 30, 2008)

Interesting - In pic 1, is that bare aluminum wire showing no corrosion? Only the copper seems to be affected - not the terminals? What does the buss look like in this panel? Would it be possible to get a overall view of the panel with the corrosion?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> IDK if this has any relevance but the homeowner has stated that his son has used the space to develop some black and white film.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I think that may be very relevant, I would have to check up on my chemistry but I believe some developing chemicals could cause that reaction.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> IR readings on a residential panelboard? :lol:
> 
> Seriously, all but the largest of EC's or speciality contractors can afford and make use of an IR camera. I know it's par for the course in your line of work, but for the vast majority of us it never comes into play.


Just asking if any othe rinfo was available, any testing I mentioned would be valuable information. 

Besides, IR cameras are very cheap these days, unless you are a total tightwad hack:jester: investing in some basic test equipment is a good investment for even the smallest EC.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall



> Laboratory tests of samples for volatile chemicals have identified emissions of the sulfurous gases carbon disulfide, carbonyl sulfide, and hydrogen sulfide. These emissions, which have the odor of rotten eggs, worsen as temperature and humidity rise and cause copper surfaces to turn black and powdery, a chemical process indicative of reaction with hydrogen sulfide. Copper pipes, wiring, and air conditioner coils are affected, as well as silver jewelry


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Good morning all, 
Possible causes:
1) chemicals? 
2) sewage waste?
3) Chinese drywall?
4) overheating? NO
All of the above have not been ruled out yet, but my belief that it is a chemical reaction is hard to believe because the other panel has not been affected. 
But, the one conduit filled with silicon, as to be investigated further. The homeowner. Explanation, was limited to "stop rodents from getting in" 

IR camera I returned the FLIR I5 and am awaiting for I7, yesterday would have been a great day to use it. 

The sad issues of this whole matter is this house was completely renovated two years ago. And the owner as it on the market. His first serious offer is accepted and the buyers HOME INSPECTOR finds this problem with the panel. The buyer called me late last night and asked me what to do? 
Should he hire a testing company?

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Hang a silver necklace on the wall and if it turns black, it's the drywall. If it's just inside the panel, it's a conduit letting in gases.
> 
> Also, the N-G's under the same screw is a violation.


Well that's debatable?

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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I notice that in some basements, all of the copper pipe has turned remarkably black. An odd black.... like very dark navy blue to black. I know, from experience, that when I open the panel in these basements, all of the copper wire, where it's bare, will be black also. As time passed, I began to notice that these basements also had a very unique smell (some type of gas coming up through the dirt?) Not a smell I can describe, and not necessarily objectionable. Just unique. From that, I guessed that the root cause of the blackness was environmental.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> Don't take it so personal. I am only saying that I have been at this for a long time and I have never seen the copper of any circuit turn the "blackness" that is shown that the problem wasn't loose connections. I am not saying that it is the same in this case but I would bet my sweet bippy on it. Just my opinion.


Loose connection? I don't think so because all the the terminations that had exposed copper were black and flakey

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I notice that in some basements, all of the copper pipe has turned remarkably black. An odd black.... like very dark navy blue to black. I know, from experience, that when I open the panel in these basements, all of the copper wire, where it's bare, will be black also. As time passed, I began to notice that these basements also had a very unique smell (some type of gas coming up through the dirt?) Not a smell I can describe, and not necessarily objectionable. Just unique. From that, I guessed that the root cause of the blackness was environmental.


Okay, but what's causing the copper to flake, to the bottom of the panel like dandruff?

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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Okay, but what's causing the copper to flake, to the bottom of the panel like dandruff?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I suppose the same thing that causes rust to flake off iron? :laughing:

Copper oxide is flaky and very thin.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MikeAdams said:


> what article are you referencing?



408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded
conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual
terminal that is not also used for another conductor.
408.30 ARTICLE 408— SWITCHBOARDS AND PANELBOARDS

Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel
conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal
if the terminal is identified for connection of more
than one conductor.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Zog said:


> Just asking if any othe rinfo was available, any testing I mentioned would be valuable information.
> 
> Besides, IR cameras are very cheap these days, unless you are a total tightwad hack:jester: investing in some basic test equipment is a good investment for even the smallest EC.



OK, now you have me curious. What is "very cheap?" Not that I'm going to run out and buy one, but I always heard they cost upwards of $20-30K.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> OK, now you have me curious. What is "very cheap?" Not that I'm going to run out and buy one, but I always heard they cost upwards of $20-30K.


No way, man. You can get into a simple one for 2K. I have the FLIR B-cam. I'm not sure if they still make it, but if they don't, they replaced it with a similar model.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> Not sure if this was posted already, but the OP recently bought a IR camera.


Brian, could you recommend any testing companies that would service the Westchester county area of NY?

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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No way, man. You can get into a simple one for 2K. I have the FLIR B-cam. I'm not sure if they still make it, but if they don't, they replaced it with a similar model.


Okie dokie. Well once I get all successful and stuff, I'll buy one. :laughing:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Brian, could you recommend any testing companies that would service the Westchester county area of NY?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


*American Electrical Testing Co., Inc.*
76 Cain Drive
Brentwood, NY 11717
Phone: (631) 630-2260
Fax: (631) 630-2292
E-mail: [email protected]
Web Site: http://www.99aetco.com

*Elemco Services, Inc.*
228 Merrick Road
Lynbrook, NY 11563
Phone: (631) 589-6343
Fax: (631) 589-6670
E-mail: [email protected]
Web Site: http://www.elemco.com

*HMT, Inc.*
6268 Route 31
Cicero, NY 13039
Phone: (315) 699-5563
Fax: (315) 699-5911
E-mail: [email protected]
Web Site: http://www.hmt-electric.com


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Brian, could you recommend any testing companies that would service the Westchester county area of NY?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 
Zog can, for the cost of testing, you could install a new panel.


I'd might consider doing it but I am slammed for the next two weeks, I have to final exams, relatives in from the UK and then I have a full time job (I THINK).

Not sure what they would tell you, you cannot discern from here, other than it is all ok. Might do a sample of the flakes for analysis.

I would do a complete visual. FOP test (ductor is too large for this equipment) and IR at full load.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Okie dokie. Well once I get all successful and stuff, I'll buy one. :laughing:


If you quit spending your money on wild women and cigars, you'd have a little more to spare.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> Zog can, for the cost of testing, you could install a new panel.


I agree, just answering his question. I don't see a need for testing at this point, I think it is clear there is a chemical reaction from either the film developing chemicals or the drywall. Replace the panel and be done with it.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Zog said:


> I agree, just answering his question. I don't see a need for testing at this point, I think it is clear there is a chemical reaction from either the film developing chemicals or the drywall. Replace the panel and be done with it.


The panel doesn't seem to be the problem, why would I do that?

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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> What effects has Chinese drywall had on electrical wiring systems that you know of?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Here is the latest report looks like the CPSC has found that the China drywall is not effecting Electrical system's in these houses.

..http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/electrical031811.pdf


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> The panel doesn't seem to be the problem, why would I do that?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 
I thought the bus in the panel was discolored?

If not cut and reterminate all cables.

Verify (WHICH WE/YOU ALREADY KNOW) there are no thermal issues (FOP TEST)

Write a letter and charge good dollars.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

These flakes and the black tarnish forming under them are silver sulfide. The flakes are semiconducting, and the tarnish is highly resistive. The silver sulfide tarnish grows in areas of the panel where the highest concentrations of sulfur is exposed to heat.

Since the hottest areas are connections and sliding contacts such as the bus stabs, this is not good. The tarnish at the connections and sliding contacts results in a high resistance connection, which produces more heat, and in turn accelerates the tarnishing. This death spiral continues on until the surfaces are cleaned or replaced. 

The sulfur from the process combines with air to form hydrogen sulfide (H2S) with some sulfur dioxide (SO2) and sulfur trioxide ( SO3) by-products. ISA Standard 70.01 defines a harsh environment as a concentration of 50 ppb (parts per billion) of H2S or 300 ppb of SO2 and SO3. Your nose can give you some idea whether sulfur is present. The odor threshold is down around 8 ppb.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Zog said:


> These flakes and the black tarnish forming under them are silver sulfide. The flakes are semiconducting, and the tarnish is highly resistive. The silver sulfide tarnish grows in areas of the panel where the highest concentrations of sulfur is exposed to heat.
> 
> Since the hottest areas are connections and sliding contacts such as the bus stabs, this is not good. The tarnish at the connections and sliding contacts results in a high resistance connection, which produces more heat, and in turn accelerates the tarnishing. This death spiral continues on until the surfaces are cleaned or replaced.
> 
> The sulfur from the process combines with air to form hydrogen sulfide (H2S) with some sulfur dioxide (SO2) and sulfur trioxide ( SO3) by-products. ISA Standard 70.01 defines a harsh environment as a concentration of 50 ppb (parts per billion) of H2S or 300 ppb of SO2 and SO3. Your nose can give you some idea whether sulfur is present. The odor threshold is down around 8 ppb.


Very interesting. But, there were no harsh odors. Our area has high levels of radon though. And as I said before there are two panels in the same area one has it the other doesn't. What's used to develop film?

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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Very interesting. But, there were no harsh odors. Our area has high levels of radon though. And as I said before there are two panels in the same area one has it the other doesn't. What's used to develop film?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


All sorts of nasy stuff, and the concentrations in a small room like that would be high. My chemistry is a bit rusty but some of these chemicals could be a contributor. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_processing


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

It's been a long time since I devolved film, I remember it involves a few different acids and it was nasty.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Very interesting. But, there were no harsh odors. Our area has high levels of radon though. And as I said before there are two panels in the same area one has it the other doesn't. What's used to develop film?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Were both panels installed simultaneously?
THe chemical intrusion could been done a while ago.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Very interesting. But, there were no harsh odors. Our area has high levels of radon though. And as I said before there are two panels in the same area one has it the other doesn't. What's used to develop film?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I would think the harsh odors would only be present when he was developing film. Not sure if this was the cause, but I find this issue very interesting. I think the Chineese drywall idea was interesting and learned something reading about it.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I contacted southwire and spoke to a tech today, they told me moisture and heating was the cause of the oxidation and the reason the wires were flaking. Told me there's no need for concern.

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I contacted southwire and spoke to a tech today, they told me moisture and heating was the cause of the oxidation and the reason the wires were flaking. Told me there's no need for concern.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Interesting that they would take a hard position sight unseen.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

K2500 said:


> Interesting that they would take a hard position sight unseen.


I sent the rep pictures..

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I sent the rep pictures..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Interesting explanation they gave.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I contacted southwire and spoke to a tech today, they told me moisture and heating was the cause of the oxidation and the reason the wires were flaking. Told me there's no need for concern.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I see no evidence of moisture or overheating. Overheating would cause a red/oragne/purple color and moisture a greenish color.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I contacted southwire and spoke to a tech today, they told me moisture and heating was the cause of the oxidation and the reason the wires were flaking. Told me there's no need for concern.


What an interesting but wrong response.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Any pics of the surrounding area?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Zog said:


> I see no evidence of moisture or overheating. Overheating would cause a red/oragne/purple color and moisture a greenish color.


Proof once again manufactures are taken at their word, WHEN THEY HAVE NO CLUE. Strictly my opinion.

In my experience manufactures are constantly giving wrong information.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I think the the cause and solutions have been posted here and the manufcture should read and learn.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> I think the the cause and solutions have been posted here and the manufcture should read and learn.


I agree, so, the tech then tells me they are not responsible for environmental issues that caused the copper to react in that manner, agreed also with him. So, at this point the only option that's available is to re-terminate, pull out all the cables enter them into a trough and splice on new conductors.

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I agree, so, the tech then tells me they are not responsible for environmental issues that caused the copper to react in that manner, agreed also with him. So, at this point the only option that's available is to re-terminate, pull out all the cables enter them into a trough and splice on new conductors.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Wether or not the source of the problem is still present should be of equal concern.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Funny thing here, is nobody says anything about that caulk.

I don't think we know what he used, and anybody stuck inside a bathroom remodel has smelled some awful nasty fumes.

Maybe whatever he used to keep out rodents inside that one conduit off-gassed while drying and caused this. Now that its completely dry, re-terminating may stop this from ever happening again?

Re-reading the entire thread all at once, the only thing uncommon to both panels seams to be this.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> Funny thing here, is nobody says anything about that caulk.
> 
> I don't think we know what he used, and anybody stuck inside a bathroom remodel has smelled some awful nasty fumes.


 Good thinking.

I once experimented with wirenuts filled with silicone caulk as a waterproofing method, and it actually significantly deteriorated the copper.

Someone (on here?) was saying that silicone caulk off-gases ammonia when it's curing, and that will cause a lot of corrosion.

-John


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

You'd need to use a hell of a lot of caulk to do that much damage.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

No need to pull them all out, move the CB's up one or two spaces and re-terminte only the ones at the top, need to be re-terminated.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Big John said:


> Good thinking.
> Someone (on here?) was saying that silicone caulk off-gases ammonia when it's curing, and that will cause a lot of corrosion.
> 
> -John


I have a friend who has been clean and sober for ten years who told me putting on silicone reminds him of some drug-either coke or crank, I can't remember which. Apparently it smells similar. Silicone smells pretty awful


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> I have a friend who has been clean and sober for ten years who told me putting on silicone reminds him of some drug-either coke or crank, I can't remember which. Apparently it smells similar. Silicone smells pretty awful


 It sure does..


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