# A Few Seals



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

That site looks really familiar! Is it by chance the new truck stop in Fernley, near the now-closed Truck Inn? 

Nice work, I really hate it when the room is so tight like that, but that's what separates the men from the boys!

Rob


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Very nice looking work. Thats way more interesting than what I did today! lol

~Matt


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Very nice work.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I would have run UF for all of that. :lol:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm taking it that you do a few gas station's and my question is how do you meet 514.11 and 514.13? This question came up a few weeks ago and I've been wanting to ask someone that does gas stations pretty regulary.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Looks good.:thumbsup:


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

micromind said:


> That site looks really familiar! Is it by chance the new truck stop in Fernley, near the now-closed Truck Inn?
> 
> Nice work, I really hate it when the room is so tight like that, but that's what separates the men from the boys!
> 
> Rob


You are correct.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I'm taking it that you do a few gas station's and my question is how do you meet 514.11 and 514.13? This question came up a few weeks ago and I've been wanting to ask someone that does gas stations pretty regulary.


It's late right now. I need some sleep. Check back tomorrow, I believe I have the answer.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

Thanks guys for the kind words.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

micromind said:


> I really hate it when the room is so tight like that, but that's what separates the men from the boys!


Cant really seperate em if the room is too dang small, now can you?:thumbup:

~Matt


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NevadaBoy said:


> It's late right now. I need some sleep. Check back tomorrow, I believe I have the answer.


 10/4 :thumbsup:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

A few more seals.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

drsparky said:


> A few more seals.


 Thats too funny.:laughing::laughing:


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

I have a feeling I couldn't have fit 67 of those seals in the same room.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I'm taking it that you do a few gas station's and my question is how do you meet 514.11 and 514.13? This question came up a few weeks ago and I've been wanting to ask someone that does gas stations pretty regulary.


Ok, 514.11 is pertaining to the Emergency Shut Off(ESO).
514.11(A) is in relation to 514.11(B) and 514.11(C). 514.11(B) and (C) use the term emergency controls, 514.11(A) doesn't. But they are talking about the same thing. What it's getting at is you need a clearly marked and acceptable switch to disconnect all conductors including the grounded conductor to any fuel dispensing equipment, including dispensers and pumps/turbines. Pumps are rarely used at the dispenser anymore. So a pump is not a dispenser, and vise versa.
How many ESOs and the location of them will depend on the site conditions. This particular site is getting 3 ESOs.

William, so can you think of a way to open or close several circuits at the same time?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

NevadaBoy said:


> Ok, 514.11 is pertaining to the Emergency Shut Off(ESO).
> 514.11(A) is in relation to 514.11(B) and 514.11(C). 514.11(B) and (C) use the term emergency controls, 514.11(A) doesn't. But they are talking about the same thing. What it's getting at is you need a clearly marked and acceptable switch to disconnect all conductors including the grounded conductor to any fuel dispensing equipment, including dispensers and pumps/turbines. Pumps are rarely used at the dispenser anymore. So a pump is not a dispenser, and vise versa.
> How many ESOs and the location of them will depend on the site conditions. This particular site is getting 3 ESOs.
> 
> William, so can you think of a way to open or close several circuits at the same time?


 
Sounds like one multi pole contactor with a two position emergency stop switch per island to me.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Sounds like one multi pole contactor with a two position emergency stop switch per island to me.


You could do that. There's several different ways to do it. On smaller sites I've used just a few 4 pole contactors wired in parallel. That works OK for a small site. Lately I've seen more prebuilt units where you have up to a hundred terminals provided for you to terminate to. Square D builds a pretty nice one. But it's the size of 1200a switchgear. Another way to do it is to kill the entire Fuel panel/panels by routing the feeders through a 100a or 200a contactor. And the ESO provides your constant 120v to your 120v coil on the contactor/contactors. And you would wire more than one ESO in series like a stop station, although you would use a maintained switch. When the switch opens, the contactor opens and opens all conductors including the neutral at the same time. That's what I've been doing lately.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

There's a guy here that does only seal coating. I want to call him up and ask how much it costs to have my seal coated. :laughing:


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I'm taking it that you do a few gas station's and my question is how do you meet 514.11 and 514.13? This question came up a few weeks ago and I've been wanting to ask someone that does gas stations pretty regulary.


514.13 is intended to protect the techs that frequently service and maintain the dispensers.
Removing external voltage _feedback_ as the NEC states, is where most screw up. Not doing it right can get someone hurt and/or smoke a very expensive circuit board at the dispenser. The only ones I've seen correct around here are either prebuilt control cabinets, or our design. I'm not going to give that one away that easy.
Being able to lock the circuits in the open position can also be tricky.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Nice job! Glad I don't have to wear my sealskin and otter hat in the summertime!


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Nice work there and good job getting the pictures. I like to take pictures like this and include them with the asbuilts as a section in the back of the O&Ms. It's a good thing to toot your own horn in a professional way.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Great looking job. The layout does look tight. Never have done any gas stations or other hazardous locations. I think it would be good experience, though. Keep it up!


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## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

Looking good!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NevadaBoy said:


> 514.13 is intended to protect the techs that frequently service and maintain the dispensers.
> Removing external voltage _feedback_ as the NEC states, is where most screw up. Not doing it right can get someone hurt and/or smoke a very expensive circuit board at the dispenser. The only ones I've seen correct around here are either prebuilt control cabinets, or our design. I'm not going to give that one away that easy.
> Being able to lock the circuits in the open position can also be tricky.


 I'm just curious how are you disconnecting the lowvoltage also like pos and so on? There was a guy that come to a meeting I was in a few weeks ago and was talking about something he had invented that would do all of this. I will look thru my papers in my truck to see if I can find a link about this thing.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I'm just curious how are you disconnecting the lowvoltage also like pos and so on? There was a guy that come to a meeting I was in a few weeks ago and was talking about something he had invented that would do all of this. I will look thru my papers in my truck to see if I can find a link about this thing.


Hello again. We usually install a forcourt controller, d-box, or Andi Box. This is where you would bring your data pairs to. These typically provide the isolation needed between POS/fuel related equip and the dispensers via a switch or removable bridge style connector. This isolation is also used for troubleshooting.

What type of system did you work on? Fuel brand(Exxon, Shell, Arco)? Dispenser brand? POS system?


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

NevadaBoy- Really fine looking conduit


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