# 3/4 HP 120V pool pump motor breaker size



## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

What size inverse time circuit breaker?


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

35A Code articles cost extra.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Greg said:


> 35A Code articles cost extra.


 GFCI, yes or no?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

electures said:


> GFCI, yes or no?


680.22(B) (2008 NEC)

680.21(C) (2011 NEC)

Chris


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

raider1 said:


> 680.22(B) (2008 NEC)
> 
> 680.21(C) (2011 NEC)
> 
> Chris


GFI required?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

electures said:


> GFI required?


Yes.

Chris


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

raider1 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Chris


 
Not required over 20A regardless of 120 or 240V.

680.21(B) states

(B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors
from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault
protection rated *15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt*,
single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection,
shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electures said:


> Not required over 20A regardless of 120 or 240V.
> 
> 680.21(B) states
> 
> ...


I think I disagree with you here. My first impression was you found a loophole however, just because the breaker is 35 amps that does not mean the circuit is rated 35 amps. The circuit is rated to the max. of the conductor. Thus a #14 gauge is rated 20 amps max. Still need GFCI.

Now use a #12 wire with a 25- 30 amp breaker then you may have a point.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think I disagree with you here. My first impression was you found a loophole however, just because the breaker is 35 amps that does not mean the circuit is rated 35 amps. The circuit is rated to the max. of the conductor. Thus a #14 gauge is rated 20 amps max. Still need GFCI.
> 
> Now use a #12 wire with a 25- 30 amp breaker then you may have a point.


Motors 101. BC conductors sized @ 125% of the FLA of the motor based on the tables. 430.248 3/4 HP, 120V = 13.8 A. 13.8 x 125% = 17.25A

310.16 #14 is rated @ 20A (See 240.4(G))

Sizing ITCB.

430.52 states 250% x 13.8 = 34.5A. 

240.6 allows a 35A ITCB.

Even if the breaker is dropped to a 30A ITCB, no GFI protection is required.

I stand by my earlier post.

It is compliant.

It is not a loop hole, it is what the code allows.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I agree I was thinking the branch circuit had to rated 20 amps but it is the OCPD. This I am sure is not the intent but perhaps I am wrong. This would make most pump motors not needing GFCI protection.



> (B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I have to disagree that the rating of an individual branch circuit supplying a motor is based on the rating of the short circuit and ground fault protective device. The overload device required in 430.32 will limit the current on the circuit to 115% or 125% of the nameplate rating of the motor. 

I would say that the branch circuit rating for this motor is 17.25 amps, and therefore would require GFCI protection.

Chris


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

raider1 said:


> I have to disagree that the rating of an individual branch circuit supplying a motor is based on the rating of the short circuit and ground fault protective device. The overload device required in 430.32 will limit the current on the circuit to 115% or 125% of the nameplate rating of the motor.
> 
> I would say that the branch circuit rating for this motor is 17.25 amps, and therefore would require GFCI protection.
> 
> Chris


I want to agre with you but the words seem to disagree.

(B) GFCI Protection. *Outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes,* 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I want to agre with you but the words seem to disagree.
> 
> (B) GFCI Protection. *Outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes,* 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.


Sorry,

I am looking at the 2011 NEC and this seems to be a change that no one seems to have caught.

Here is the 2011 Language;



> *
> (C) GFCI Protection.​*​​​​Outlets supplying pool pump motors
> connected to single-phase,* 120 volt through 240 volt branch
> circuits, rated 15 or 20 amperes,* whether by receptacle or by
> ...




It appears they took out the term "Short circuit and ground fault protection rated" and changed it to just rated so my interpretation for 2011 would be correct.:thumbup:

Chris


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I agree I was thinking the branch circuit had to rated 20 amps but it is the OCPD. This I am sure is not the intent but perhaps I am wrong. *This would make most pump motors not needing GFCI protection.*


I know. Unless the manufacturer requires GFI protection 110.3(B). I have been teaching this to both contractors and the inspectors in NJ for the last two years. 

The next problem is what to do the the required receptacle outlet. It can't be on the pump circuit. However, since the pump circuit is not GFI, the bc conductors from a different circuit for the receptacle can be installed in the same raceway. The GFI is then installed in the box and the pump circuit passes on through.

Also note that the plug and receptacle for the pump shall be horse power rated.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Well, as I thought the intent was not as electure applied the code. I am glad to see it's cleared up in 2011. Heck it wasn't until the 2008 code that all pool pumps as stated above needed gfci. Before 2008 gfci wasn't need except for cord & plug pumps.


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