# dark sky laws.



## sbrn33

Do any of you guys live in an area that has dark sky laws? Do you like it or think it is just stupid? 
I am thinking about pushing for it in my small town (30,000 or so), but if it is a waste of time I probably just blow it off. 
Thanks Scoot


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## HackWork

I don't like the fact that the sky is pretty much blank here at night.


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## MechanicalDVR

Not sure why but I wasn't aware of this. But then again I've been in a rural country area the last six years. We don't need laws here, there is such a small amount of light around here at night. Moving here from NJ, my wife and I both love to look up at night and see a million stars in the sky.


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## sbrn33

HackWork said:


> I don't like the fact that the sky is pretty much blank here at night.


Maybe it would be if you had dark sky laws. :whistling2:


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## HackWork

sbrn33 said:


> Maybe it would be if you had dark sky laws. :whistling2:


Really? Is that why I posted that? Did you mean wouldn't?


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## Signal1

Go for it.
Look here if you haven't already. http://darksky.org/

It's amazing how different the sky looks at night here (Boston Suburbs) compared to my friend's house in the middle of Maine.

We don't have an ordinance here but everything we upgrade to LED like our streetlights are dark sky compliant. I think most of the new stuff is.


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## chicken steve

I exist in such a locality , less than 3K in my town

We get flooded annually by the stellafane star gazers , brickenstock wearing ,volvo driving environmentalists ,mostly from very bright cities who are bent on '_saving us from ourselves'_ by demonizing guys like me who fix a street light.

Lord help their fat little tuskettes can't see the milky way.....~CS~:no:


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## Wirenuting

sbrn33 said:


> Do any of you guys live in an area that has dark sky laws? Do you like it or think it is just stupid?
> I am thinking about pushing for it in my small town (30,000 or so), but if it is a waste of time I probably just blow it off.
> Thanks Scoot


There were federal laws passed regarding light pollution years ago. People ignore it for the reasons of security and safety. 

I haven't seen the Milky Way in 30 years and I miss it..


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## sbrn33

Wirenutting, that makes me a bit sad. I see the stars almost every night. Sometimes it is good to live in Nebraska.


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## Signal1

chicken steve said:


> I exist in such a locality , less than 3K in my town
> 
> We get flooded annually by the stellafane star gazers , brickenstock wearing ,volvo driving environmentalists ,mostly from very bright cities who are bent on '_saving us from ourselves'_ by demonizing guys like me who fix a street light.
> 
> Lord help their fat little tuskettes can't see the milky way.....~CS~:no:


I don't have a Volvo.


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## Wirenuting

sbrn33 said:


> Wirenutting, that makes me a bit sad. I see the stars almost every night. Sometimes it is good to live in Nebraska.


At sea I was amazed how bright the night sky is. I could sit on deck and read a book. I grew up 30 miles out of NYC and now live 30 miles north of Chicago and when I look up I'm lucky to see a couple dozen stars. 
I have an app called planets, it gives me a 3D view of what I'm missing. LoL

Light pollution it terrible and IMO it's sad that a generation has grown up never seeing the sky. Of course it's been good for electricians who install lights.


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## chicken steve

_( for full effect)_

*My trade must be a kind of blind one
I can't see any milky way too
Sha bop sha bop..... Sha bop sha bop

Are the stars out tonight
I don't know if it's cloudy or bright
Yes, we're hiding the skys from view.....
Sha bop sha bop

The moon may be high
Sha bop sha bop
But I can't see a thing in the sky
We're hiding the skys from view


I don't know if we're in lawsuit
Or have a legal avenue
Sha bop sha bop

You are here .... Sha bop sha bop
And so am I ....Sha bop sha bop
Maybe millions of people parrot lies
'Cuase they all give the green machine it's due
We're hiding the skys from view
And their milky way eyes are through
Sha bop sha bop Sha bop sha bop*

~C(w/apologies to the flamingos)S~


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## MechanicalDVR

Note to self: driving a volvo improves celestial clarity....


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## knomore

We have a dark sky city around us. It makes finding suitable light fixtures to match existing ones a bit hard sometimes. Other than that it's not a big deal.


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## Elec tricka

Failed a inspection once in a city i don't work in much at house on top of knob st .

The strictest translation of the dark sky coat is if the bulb can be seen from neighbors property its a no go.Hard to do on the knob .Thank you Mr. 40w appliance bulb.
Tricka


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## MikeFL

There are different types of dark sky ordinances. 

They vary from outright bans on outdoor lighting (Sanibel, FL) to requirements for lighting to only project light downward.

Some beaches have sea turtle nesting season regulations (Fort Myers Beach, FL) that prohibit burning outdoor lights within n feet of a beach during certain months. 

We make outdoor light controls, so of course I want to see lights everywhere!


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## macmikeman

I use Tiki Torches.


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## backstay

My God, is there no laws you people don't like? Wait until the big event(CME), then you'll get more than enough dark sky.


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## HackWork

backstay said:


> My God, is there no laws you people don't like? Wait until the big event(CME), then you'll get more than enough dark sky.


Coming from the guy who begs the government's permission and pays them money to put a wire in a privately owned house.


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## backstay

That label fits all here.


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## HackWork

backstay said:


> That label fits all here.


 That sounds like sheep mentality.

That label doesn't include those of us who respect the Constitution. I can't find any amendment that says I need to beg and pay the government for permission to work and then beg and pay them again for permission to make small alterations on privately owned property.


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## backstay

HackWork said:


> That sounds like sheep mentality.
> 
> That label doesn't include those of us who respect the Constitution. I can't find any amendment that says I need to beg and pay the government for permission to work and then beg and pay them again for permission to make small alterations on privately owned property.


And yet you do, when you drive your car, pay your property taxes, buy your gas, or your insurance. Nothing but sheep in America.


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## MechanicalDVR

backstay said:


> And yet you do, when you drive your car, pay your property taxes, buy your gas, or your insurance. Nothing but sheep in America.


Taxes are taxes, pay them or face the consequences.


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## HackWork

backstay said:


> And yet you do, when you drive your car, pay your property taxes, buy your gas, or your insurance. Nothing but sheep in America.


Agreed, but I certainly don't promote those laws.

Hey, whatever floats your boat. I just find it hypocritical that you are lambasting the people in this thread after what you said in the other one.


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## chicken steve

Signal1 said:


> I don't have a Volvo.


You might want to consider if for Boston traffic Signal, i hear they're second only to a sherman tank in engineered protectants....~C:whistling2:S~


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## sbrn33

chicken steve said:


> You might want to consider if for Boston traffic Signal, i hear they're second only to a sherman tank in engineered protectants....~C:whistling2:S~


You mean like Armour All, or Pledge? Or are you thinking something more like a good car wax?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician

I wired an octagon shaped church, off a 4 lane. Rather than place 6 pole mounted area lights for the parking lot I talked the pastor into letting me mount 8 MH wallpacks around the building. This saved them $50K.

Well I got word townfolks were upset because they lost their dark sky, so I started removing them.

Then the pastor & the mayor said put them back up. It was really just one guy complaining and he complained about everything!


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## MikeFL

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I wired an octagon shaped church, off a 4 lane. Rather than place 6 pole mounted area lights for the parking lot I talked the pastor into letting me mount 8 MH wallpacks around the building. This saved them $50K.
> 
> Well I got word townfolks were upset because they lost their dark sky, so I started removing them.
> 
> Then the pastor & the mayor said put them back up. It was really just one guy complaining and he complained about everything!


Every city has one of them!

Glad it worked out. :thumbsup:


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## reshyam

Hi Guys,
Well come to forum site.We not sure why but we wasn't aware of this. But then again we have been in a rural country area the last six years. We does not need laws here, there is such a small amount of light around here at night. We have Moving here from NJ, my wife and We both love to look up at night and see a million stars in the sky.
Thanks............


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## MechanicalDVR

reshyam said:


> Hi Guys,
> Well come to forum site.We not sure why but we wasn't aware of this. But then again we have been in a rural country area the last six years. We does not need laws here, there is such a small amount of light around here at night. We have Moving here from NJ, my wife and We both love to look up at night and see a million stars in the sky.
> Thanks............


Welcome aboard! 

NJ to India, now that's some transition!


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## brian john

West of where I live is 0r was fairly rural, then they opened a Sheetz I can see the lights from that store miles and miles away.

https://www.sheetz.com/?gclid=CjwKE...5FC_N1Bp_mnQix5yvKf4iffUO6h-4sx4XLhoCuRfw_wcB


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## MechanicalDVR

brian john said:


> West of where I live is 0r was fairly rural, then they opened a Sheetz I can see the lights from that store miles and miles away.
> 
> https://www.sheetz.com/?gclid=CjwKE...5FC_N1Bp_mnQix5yvKf4iffUO6h-4sx4XLhoCuRfw_wcB


Walmart is 6.6 miles from my home and you can see the glow of their parking lot lights when driving up my road when you are less than a mile from my house.


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## sbrn33

I am not for more laws either but I would be for this one.


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## MechanicalDVR

I agree with you @sbrn33.

Light pollution viewed from space:


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## RePhase277

My lady had never seen the Milky Way until I forced her to stay the night at the Super-Secret Off Grid RePhase Remote Property.


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> My lady had never seen the Milky Way until I forced her to stay the night at the Super-Secret Off Grid RePhase Remote Property.


If it's so secret how is it you keep bringing it up?

The NSA is gonna sell you out soon you know?


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> If it's so secret how is it you keep bringing it up?
> 
> The NSA is gonna sell you out soon you know?


Not 'secret'... Super-Secret. There is a difference. Super-Secret doesn't apply to the property location. It applies to the location of trespassers remains.:whistling2:


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> Not 'secret'... Super-Secret. There is a difference. Super-Secret doesn't apply to the property location. It applies to the location of trespassers remains.:whistling2:


"Tasker3 this is Anston base, just look for the cabin with no power but a FIOS modem on a pole Tasker3 over!"


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> "Tasker3 this is Anston base, just look for the cabin with no power but a FIOS modem on a pole Tasker3 over!"


It must be a slow day if they're looking for me. I'm not privy to much classified info, but I have never heard of the government ordering a drone strike because there was a drunk guy on his property with no pants on and his feet in a creek.


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## wildleg

they are important around here to keep the sea turtles from gettin stupid.

I like em.


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> It must be a slow day if they're looking for me. I'm not privy to much classified info, but I have never heard of the government ordering a drone strike because there was a drunk guy on his property with no pants on and his feet in a creek.


Give it time, the boys need to stay in practice! :jester:


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## millelec

I grew up in central PA, and have 7 acres on a hilltop there. Could see everything 30 years ago at night. Now the town 13 miles away has a massive amount of light pollution around it. Can still see much, but it's not nearly the same.


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## MechanicalDVR

millelec said:


> I grew up in central PA, and have 7 acres on a hilltop there. Could see everything 30 years ago at night. Now the town 13 miles away has a massive amount of light pollution around it. Can still see much, but it's not nearly the same.


Really sad isn't it?

Never forget the look on my kids faces the first time they saw a starlit sky while driving through South Carolina at night.


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## backstay

RePhase277 said:


> Not 'secret'... Super-Secret. There is a difference. Super-Secret doesn't apply to the property location. It applies to the location of trespassers remains.:whistling2:


My thoughts too!


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## millelec

MechanicalDVR said:


> Really sad isn't it?
> 
> Never forget the look on my kids faces the first time they saw a starlit sky while driving through South Carolina at night.


agreed, Mech. Here's a link to an area about an hour from me close to the PA/NY border that they have managed to keep undeveloped...

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/cherrysprings/


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## MechanicalDVR

millelec said:


> agreed, Mech. Here's a link to an area about an hour from me close to the PA/NY border that they have managed to keep undeveloped...
> 
> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/cherrysprings/


That sounds like a cool place.

Now as for an hour away from you, you can make it halfway across PA in an hour?


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## MikeFL

MechanicalDVR said:


> I agree with you @sbrn33.
> 
> Light pollution viewed from space:


That's money!


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## MechanicalDVR

MikeFL said:


> That's money!


Says a lot about being out in the midwestern states.


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## millelec

MechanicalDVR said:


> That sounds like a cool place.
> 
> Now as for an hour away from you, you can make it halfway across PA in an hour?


That's about an hour from my place in PA, is what I should have said! you're absolutely correct...


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## MechanicalDVR

millelec said:


> That's about an hour from my place in PA, is what I should have said! you're absolutely correct...


Going to say, I drive fast but that is like helicopter timing from Jersey.


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## HackWork

RePhase277 said:


> My lady had never seen the Milky Way until I forced her to stay the night at the Super-Secret Off Grid RePhase Remote Property.


Why am I getting the idea that you are actually John Goodman in 10 Cloverfield Rd???


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## splatz

MechanicalDVR said:


> I agree with you @sbrn33.
> 
> Light pollution viewed from space:





MikeFL said:


> That's money!





MechanicalDVR said:


> Says a lot about being out in the midwestern states.


Are you saying light pollution makes people vote a certain way?!?


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## MechanicalDVR

splatz said:


> Are you saying light pollution makes people vote a certain way?!?


I'm not and had no plans on it but when you look at the most lit up areas one would imagine that there is a study out there someplace that says that.

You can see NJ-NY is the brightest and you can make out LA and several other areas that are democrat heavy.


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## HackWork

MechanicalDVR said:


> I'm not and had no plans on it but when you look at the most lit up areas one would imagine that there is a study out there someplace that says that.
> 
> You can see NJ-NY is the brightest and you can make out LA and several other areas that are democrat heavy.


Yup, the lights go along with the big cities which go along with liberalism.


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## Signal1

Well, you can't really see many lights in Nebraska.


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## HackWork

Signal1 said:


> Well, you can't really see many lights Nebraska.


Where the hell is Nebraska? :laughing:


It's just one of those states that I never cared to look for :thumbup:


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## drsparky

RePhase277 said:


> It must be a slow day if they're looking for me. I'm not privy to much classified info, but I have never heard of the government ordering a drone strike because there was a drunk guy on his property with no pants on and his feet in a creek.


Just get your feet out of the creek, your scaring the fish.


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## splatz

HackWork said:


> Where the hell is Nebraska?


How ridiculous. Don't you realize that Nebraska is the very gateway to South Dakota?


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## HackWork

splatz said:


> How ridiculous. Don't you realize that Nebraska is the very gateway to South Dakota?


That's where my good friend dr spec is from, Reylene South Dakota.


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## RePhase277

You have Nebraska to thank for Kool-Aid and some damn fine beef.


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## drsparky

Nothing like a dark night and the Northern Lights are shining brightly.


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## RePhase277

HackWork said:


> Why am I getting the idea that you are actually John Goodman in 10 Cloverfield Rd???


That's just stupid. It's more like Zed in Pulp Fiction.


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## MechanicalDVR

HackWork said:


> Yup, the lights go along with the big cities which go along with liberalism.


Kind of like cockroaches, heavier populations in large cities.




Signal1 said:


> Well, you can't really see many lights in Nebraska.



Nope, so much of that area is almost completely dark.




HackWork said:


> Where the hell is Nebraska? :laughing:
> 
> 
> It's just one of those states that I never cared to look for :thumbup:


West of Iowa and east of Wyoming!


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> That's just stupid. It's more like Zed in Pulp Fiction.


That doesn't sound good!


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## MikeFL

drsparky said:


> Nothing like a dark night and the Northern Lights are shining brightly.


Pictures!


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> That doesn't sound good!


Trespassers beware!


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## drsparky

MikeFL said:


> Pictures!


That's pretty hard to do. Need a clear night and a solar storm, plus my bedtime is 9:00 on school nights.


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## drsparky

The country that has the most effective dark sky laws is North Korea.:chinese:


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## MechanicalDVR

drsparky said:


> The country that has the most effective dark sky laws is North Korea.:chinese:


Cause they don't have the money to keep the lights on!


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## active1

No dark sky laws in Vegas.
5 miles from the strip you have enough light to see in the dark.
On cloudy nights you can read a book outside at night.

Many hotels have racks of 1KW HID lighting fixtures shinning up the sides of the buildings. Over the last few years to save money some of the lighting has been disabled or removed. No more lighting all building sides.

The *Luxor Sky Beam* is the strongest beam of light in the world, using curved mirrors to collect the light from 39 - 7kw xenon lamps and focus them into one intense, narrow beam. 315KW of lighting load. On a clear night, the Sky Beam is visible up to 275 miles away by aircraft at cruising altitude, such as over Los Angeles. The beam has operated reliably since first enabled on October 15, 1993, and is an FAA designated navigational landmark for aviators.
The lamp room is about 50 feet below the top of the building and serviced by a staff of two workers during the day. The room's temperature is about 300 °F while the lights are operating. Since 2008, only half the lamps are lit as a cost and energy saving measure. The light might be the world's best bug attractor, establishing a new ecosystem of moths, bats, and owls.


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## MechanicalDVR

active1 said:


> No dark sky laws in Vegas.
> 5 miles from the strip you have enough light to see in the dark.
> On cloudy nights you can read a book outside at night.
> 
> Many hotels have racks of 1KW HID lighting fixtures shinning up the sides of the buildings. Over the last few years to save money some of the lighting has been disabled or removed. No more lighting all building sides.
> 
> The *Luxor Sky Beam* is the strongest beam of light in the world, using curved mirrors to collect the light from 39 - 7kw xenon lamps and focus them into one intense, narrow beam. 315KW of lighting load. On a clear night, the Sky Beam is visible up to 275 miles away by aircraft at cruising altitude, such as over Los Angeles. The beam has operated reliably since first enabled on October 15, 1993, and is an FAA designated navigational landmark for aviators.
> The lamp room is about 50 feet below the top of the building and serviced by a staff of two workers during the day. The room's temperature is about 300 °F while the lights are operating. Since 2008, only half the lamps are lit as a cost and energy saving measure. The light might be the world's best bug attractor, establishing a new ecosystem of moths, bats, and owls.




Yup!


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## sbrn33

HackWork said:


> Where the hell is Nebraska? :laughing:
> 
> 
> It's just one of those states that I never cared to look for :thumbup:


That is just one of the things that makes it a great place.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> That is just one of the things that makes it a great place.


No visiting Italians?


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> No visiting Italians?


No... No resident Italians:laughing:


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## HackWork

RePhase277 said:


> No... No resident Italians:laughing:


How horrible.

ETA: I don't want to sound racist so I should clarify this. I don't want to live in a place with only Italians, I like more diversity. Irish, Polish, German, Russian, English, etc. are all welcome in my neighborhood.


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> No... No resident Italians:laughing:


That's cause it's Alabama! 

It might be a 'sweet home' but it never tickled my fancy.


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## MechanicalDVR

HackWork said:


> How horrible.
> 
> ETA: I don't want to sound racist so I should clarify this. I don't want to live in a place with only Italians, I like more diversity. Irish, Polish, German, Russian, English, etc. are all welcome in my neighborhood.


Sitting here thinking about what I want for dinner and you post "Irish, Polish, German, Russian, English".

All have some great dishes, except English. No wonder they have such piss poor dispositions. 

Just food for thought.


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> That's cause it's Alabama!
> 
> It might be a 'sweet home' but it never tickled my fancy.


Then you don't know what a fancy tickling you're missing out on..:brows:

But we were talking about Nebraska. My neighbor to the south is Italian, and I mean actually Italian, not like you two jokers. Everything-a he says-a has-a the classic-a Italian-a "uh" at the end-a. Dynamite guy.


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## RePhase277

HackWork said:


> How horrible.
> 
> ETA: I don't want to sound racist so I should clarify this. I don't want to live in a place with only Italians, I like more diversity. Irish, Polish, German, Russian, English, etc. are all welcome in my neighborhood.


So long as they're Caucasian. Got it.:shifty:


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> Then you don't know what a fancy tickling you're missing out on..:brows:
> 
> But we were talking about Nebraska. My neighbor to the south is Italian, and I *mean actually Italian*, not like you two jokers. Everything-a he says-a has-a the classic-a Italian-a "uh" at the end-a. Dynamite guy.


A speech impediment makes him more Italian than other Italians?

You'll need to explain that logic...

I'm exactly half Sicilian, my father was born there and came here as a youngster @12yrs old. He never had any speech problem, nor did any of his 20 siblings.


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> A speech impediment makes him more Italian than other Italians?
> 
> You'll need to explain that logic...
> 
> I'm exactly half Sicilian, my father was born there and came here as a youngster @12yrs old. He never had any speech problem, nor did any of his 20 siblings.


The logic is thus:

The man was born in Italy and spent his formative years there learning Italian. Then, in his 30s, he came to the US, only knowing English curse words. He then spent the next 30 years learning English. Now when he speaks, he has a heavy accent, and-a he speaks-a like-a dis.


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> The logic is thus:
> 
> The man was born in Italy and spent his formative years there learning Italian. Then, in his 30s, he came to the US, only knowing English curse words. He then spent the next 30 years learning English. Now when he speaks, he has a heavy accent, and-a he speaks-a like-a dis.


Now I understand your point.


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## lighterup

sbrn33 said:


> Do any of you guys live in an area that has dark sky laws? Do you like it or think it is just stupid?
> I am thinking about pushing for it in my small town (30,000 or so), but if it is a waste of time I probably just blow it off.
> Thanks Scoot


If it's not too late ...yes . I live in a township and there is a local law 
regarding lighting ...it basically states you cannot have so much outdoor
lighting that it sheds light on the property adjoining your property line.

A church had POCO put a pole up in their parking lot with a street light
on it ..to light up a gravel parking lot..the neighbor went ape and 
complained a the monthly township board meeting.

the churches contention was their parking lot is pitch black at night ,
sighting safety issues for people walking to their cars.

The individual who complained siad if he wanted bright lights hitting
his property he would have moved to the city. That the lights were 
impeding his view of the stars.

The church had POCO put a shield on the light to prevent the light
from hitting the guys property line. 

The guy still didn't like it , so they yielded and then had a big issue
trying to get POCO to shut it down. , which eventually they did.

My personal opinion is , if you want lights on your property , you
should be able to do it.


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## telsa

This is ALWAYS going to be sticky.


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## MechanicalDVR

lighterup said:


> If it's not too late ...yes . I live in a township and there is a local law
> regarding lighting ...it basically states you cannot have so much outdoor
> lighting that it sheds light on the property adjoining your property line.
> 
> A church had POCO put a pole up in their parking lot with a street light
> on it ..to light up a gravel parking lot..the neighbor went ape and
> complained a the monthly township board meeting.
> 
> the churches contention was their parking lot is pitch black at night ,
> sighting safety issues for people walking to their cars.
> 
> The individual who complained siad if he wanted bright lights hitting
> his property he would have moved to the city. That the lights were
> impeding his view of the stars.
> 
> The church had POCO put a shield on the light to prevent the light
> from hitting the guys property line.
> 
> The guy still didn't like it , so they yielded and then had a big issue
> trying to get POCO to shut it down. , which eventually they did.
> 
> My personal opinion is , if you want lights on your property , you
> should be able to do it.



Yeah that was a bit extreme, the nosy neighbor should have been good with the shield. If some old lady fell in the parking lot I hope she would sue the neighbor for having the light removed and see how that settled in his gut.


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## MechanicalDVR

If I were involved with that church I'd suggest spots and floods mounted on the building directed at the neighbors property when the lot is in use, you know so a timer kicks them off at midnight.

Light that yard and house up like daytime, just during occupied hours at the church.....


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> Yeah that was a bit extreme, the nosy neighbor should have been good with the shield. If some old lady fell in the parking lot I hope she would sue the neighbor for having the light removed and see how that settled in his gut.


Or that church could do it right and put pole lights on the perimeter. Then none of the light would intrude on the neighbors.


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## RePhase277

sbrn33 said:


> Or that church could do it right and put pole lights on the perimeter. Then none of the light would intrude on the neighbors.


Bite the bullet and turn the lights off when service is over. I know the POCO put the lights up, but still.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> Or that church could do it right and put pole lights on the perimeter. Then none of the light would intrude on the neighbors.


I've had a Methodist church for a neighbor at two of my homes, even though they are a piss poor neighbor to have I still made some concessions for the things they do on their property just for the fact it was their property and they have a right to use it.


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## MechanicalDVR

RePhase277 said:


> Bite the bullet and turn the lights off when service is over. I know the POCO put the lights up, but still.


Exactly a timer in addition to the photocell would do a world of good for neighbor relations.


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've had a Methodist church for a neighbor at two of my homes, even though they are a piss poor neighbor to have I still made some concessions for the things they do on their property just for the fact it was their property and they have a right to use it.


So to you light trespass is no big deal.


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## sbrn33

This is one of the problems with the POCO doing something private contractors should be doing. Even if there were dark sky laws the POCO would probably be exempt.
I tell ours all the time that they should not be competing with private contractors in the out side lighting realm. Same thing with surge suppressors.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> So to you light trespass is no big deal.


In this instance yes. I dealt with just that at one house, and baseballs coming into my windows and overflow parking with cars in front of my house and on my grass at times. This is just one thing you have to consider when buying a house next to a business, school, or church.

Those buildings were there before you bought normally and doing what they do, exercise some due diligence if there is going to be an issue move on.

Like people that would buy a house 10' from an auto body shop and tell you I can't stand all the noise during the day! Well no sh!t Sherlock!


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## lighterup

RePhase277 said:


> Bite the bullet and turn the lights off when service is over. I know the POCO put the lights up, but still.


I am pretty sure that POCO directly fed the street light from their
power source. The church had no "on or off" control of the street
light. They were just billed "X" amount of dollars a month for the light.


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## lighterup

MechanicalDVR said:


> Exactly a timer in addition to the photocell would do a world of good for neighbor relations.


POCO would have had to do all that. The church had no "on / off " 
feature control of the street light.

The community I am in is highly resistant to any development at all.
They ( people and politicians) do not want urban sprawl , shopping
centers etc...this "dark sky" law is really a reflection of that mentality.


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## lighterup

MechanicalDVR said:


> In this instance yes. I dealt with just that at one house, and baseballs coming into my windows and overflow parking with cars in front of my house and on my grass at times. This is just one thing you have to consider when buying a house next to a business, school, or church.
> 
> Those buildings were there before you bought normally and doing what they do, exercise some due diligence if there is going to be an issue move on.
> 
> Like people that would buy a house 10' from an auto body shop and tell you I can't stand all the noise during the day! Well no sh!t Sherlock!


Great point Mech...I didn't think of this before . The church is old.. built in late 1800's. I'm not sure if the house is that old. It's safe to say all tenants are "newer", so the HO new he was getting a house next to a public use building.


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## lighterup

sbrn33 said:


> Or that church could do it right and put pole lights on the perimeter. Then none of the light would intrude on the neighbors.


Believe it or not , the street light was put toward the church , in the 
parking lot so it cast light on the churches front door (where people went
in & out). 
The house was clear across the street sort of caddy corner to the lot..
probably 50 yards away????

The guy was a crumudgen...he had no real reason to complain...he was
saying that the light was interfering with his view of the stars. The zoning
board sided with him.

They are using "dark sky" laws as one way prevent any kind of 
development / modernization , urban sprawl etc...


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## MechanicalDVR

lighterup said:


> Great point Mech...I didn't think of this before . The church is old.. built in late 1800's. I'm not sure if the house is that old. It's safe to say all tenants are "newer", so the HO new he was getting a house next to a public use building.


It took me a lot of frustration to figure this out but you need to be honest and fair about it. The church in my case had been there 100 years who am I to tell them how to use their property?


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## MechanicalDVR

lighterup said:


> POCO would have had to do all that. The church had no "on / off "
> feature control of the street light.
> 
> The community I am in is highly resistant to any development at all.
> They ( people and politicians) do not want urban sprawl , shopping
> centers etc...this "dark sky" law is really a reflection of that mentality.


They aren't wrong, they just need to be reasonable about it. I love living in the boonies myself, makes people more real.

We help each other more than city people.


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## lighterup

MechanicalDVR said:


> It took me a lot of frustration to figure this out but you need to be honest and fair about it. The church in my case had been there 100 years who am I to tell them how to use their property?


Unless they're parking cars on your grass...I just happen to believe that
communities that have "dark sky "laws probably have other motives for
the law to be in place (to begin with).

The house I live in , which I bought and moved here in 1995 , has a
street light about half way up my driveway. Was there when I bought
the place. I've never heard of any complaints from my neighbors.
Houses to my right and left are probably 200' either way.

I can turn that on & off at the circuit breaker.

As far as property rights , I am agreeing ...I think people should be 
able to light up their homes or businesses light fort knox if they want
to , but here they will contend with the zoning board if they do.


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## RePhase277

MechanicalDVR said:


> It took me a lot of frustration to figure this out but you need to be honest and fair about it. The church in my case had been there 100 years who am I to tell them how to use their property?


Well, if people are parking in your grass, then you are the person that can tell them to build better parking.

What happens on the property is their business, but once it spills over into some other property, it's a problem. And it doesn't matter how long they've been there. And doesn't matter if the spill over is cars or photons. The light wasn't there originally. I think the right thing to do would be have the POCO remove the light and install some lights that could be controlled during services and events.


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## MechanicalDVR

lighterup said:


> Unless they're parking cars on your grass...I just happen to believe that
> communities that have "dark sky "laws probably have other motives for
> the law to be in place (to begin with).
> 
> The house I live in , which I bought and moved here in 1995 , has a
> street light about half way up my driveway. Was there when I bought
> the place. I've never heard of any complaints from my neighbors.
> Houses to my right and left are probably 200' either way.
> 
> I can turn that on & off at the circuit breaker.
> 
> As far as property rights , I am agreeing ...I think people should be
> able to light up their homes or businesses light fort knox if they want
> to , but here they will contend with the zoning board if they do.


Yeah, the parking on my front lawn was more the obnoxious parishioners who I corrected often, they finally got the message.


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## lighterup

:laughing:Yeah , it sounds like they need a bigger parking lot.
Where I am at is more like a rural area , definitely not the boonies.
It's not that far from highways , city etc...
The community/county is on the edge of larger municipalities (not
major cities like Cleveland / Akron / Columbus etc..but suburbs).

This county does not want to lose it's old country / low traffic volume
life style and I like that. It's part of the reason I moved here. I lived
in the city and prefer some space between neighbors / homes , but
when the sun goes down , this place can be pitch friggin black and it's
no help that I don't have 30 year old's eye sight anymore.

One time I was backing out (my driveway light was burned out at the 
time) and I backed my van up into one of the pine trees that go along 
my driveway. tree branch right thru the rear window.


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## MechanicalDVR

lighterup said:


> :laughing:Yeah , it sounds like they need a bigger parking lot.
> Where I am at is more like a rural area , definitely not the boonies.
> It's not that far from highways , city etc...
> The community/county is on the edge of larger municipalities (not
> major cities like Cleveland / Akron / Columbus etc..but suburbs).
> 
> This county does not want to lose it's old country / low traffic volume
> life style and I like that. It's part of the reason I moved here. I lived
> in the city and prefer some space between neighbors / homes , but
> when the sun goes down , this place can be pitch friggin black and it's
> no help that I don't have 30 year old's eye sight anymore.
> 
> One time I was backing out (my driveway light was burned out at the
> time) and I backed my van up into one of the pine trees that go along
> my driveway. tree branch right thru the rear window.



That sucks and an expensive repair.

It's about a 15 minute ride to town / the highway from my house, that's a decent buffer for my liking. Closest real city is about 1.5 hours away.


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## sbrn33

You can still have good light with a dark sky law. All it mean is the light needs to hit the ground. Pretty easy with all the new LED's nowadays. I am also thinking for more residential area. More like some cheap assed floodlight shining into someones bedroom windows.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> You can still have good light with a dark sky law. All it mean is the light needs to hit the ground. Pretty easy with all the new LED's nowadays. I am also thinking for more residential area. *More like some cheap assed floodlight shining into someones bedroom windows.*


Yeah that crap just doesn't fly.


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