# Really thinking of quitting trade and need advice



## shortedout

I'm a second year apprentice and was just laid off from a job. I've been laid off a few times now when a job was ending and we were waiting for more work to start up but this is the first time I've been singled out with a lay off; as in instead of a bunch of us getting laid off I was the only one.

I've been working with a journeyman for the last three weeks that has been a trying experience. He has completely destroyed any confidence I had. I haven't run and bent much conduit and he's put me on the spot by making me do the measurements and plan the runs while he's on the ground doing the bending...all the while criticizing every little single move I make. When we're not doing that torture routine I'm glued to his hip standing under his ladder and handing him things. I've tried working ahead of him and having the things he needs ready but that doesn't work. He wants you to be there at his beck and call. Get the couplings when he wants the couplings. Go to the jobbox when he wants the tool and not in the five minutes you are stood there twiddling your thumbs.
The few times I was left to run some pipe by myself it was pointless to ask him any questions because I feel like I just made myself look bad. "This is a simple run it shouldn't take you that long." "It's been two weeks you should be getting better at this." 

The thing I'm reasonably certain got me the lay off was I was left to run some conduit and mount a few boxes. None of these were easy spots with duckwork, other conduit, sprinkler lines, walls, and t-bar ceiling to work around and I got chewed out for leaving a box unsupported, having a gooseneck, and having a box in an awkward spot. I think my jm showed the superintendent, who he is really close with, my shitty work and mysteriously, the next day I get a lay off. The thing is I was in the process of fixing those things but got pulled away for a gear run by him and then the next morning pulled away again but he doesn't care and didn't give a damn.

I've never felt so useless and unhandy than after working with him and now any good will I had with the company got pissed down the drain because of him.


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## wcord

At least this JM has taught you how NOT to be.

From the start of your apprenticeship till you leave the trade, you will work with some assholes and some great guys, and a bunch of every day guys in between.

Same goes for employers. 

Now, suck it up and go find another contractor to work for. Eventually you will become a JM and then you can teach the new apprentice the way you wanted to be taught


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## Wardenclyffe




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## splatz

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. Think a minute. Are you seriously going to let one pain in the ass stand between you and another 30 or 40 years of a making a good living? 

I bet in a couple days, or a week or whatever, you'll have washed the stink of this bad experience off you and you'll be ready to get back to work. So don't make any hasty decisions. 

Thinking ahead a step ... if you did leave the trade, do you know what you'd find? You occasionally run into pains in the ass everywhere you go, changing jobs won't do jack. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the references. One, people check them less than you think, especially for 2nd year apprentices. They don't shop that hard for the grunts. It's not like buying a car where you read a lot of reviews. It's more like buying paper towels. I bought Bounty because they had Bounty at the store. Two, even if they didn't like you, your former employer is probably not looking to burn you to a future employer. They probably knew it was inevitable with the ray of sunshine they paired you with. 

If you are worried about it, if there's someone there that thought better of you, have them write a reference for you. If someone asks for a reference, send them that, rather than the name and address of the company. (It's not a bad idea to start keeping these from every place you work...)


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## blueheels2

Yeah if you want to be an electrician don’t let that jerk keep you from it. Buckle down, assess your performance and see if you can glean any constructive criticism from jerk jw, and do better next time.

You’ll laugh about it in 5 years.


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## Quickservice

Wardenclyffe said:


>


Hilarious!


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## Quickservice

Man! I feel for you, I worked for two royal Jerks during my career. In both cases I decided that life was too short for this kind of torture. It is so miserable to wake up in the morning and dread having to go to work. In both cases I resigned and was able to find new jobs with supervisors that were supportive. @splatz has given you some great advice. Don’t let one jerk ruin your career.


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## oldsparky52

Maybe you should give that J-man a copy of this book?










My mother gave me a copy of this book back in '67. She said I needed it. It is a very good book. It was written 85 years ago and is still applicable. 


I haven't read this in a couple of decades. I used to read it every 5-10 years just to keep it semi fresh in my mind. IMO it should be mandatory reading when you enter high school.


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## Quickservice

oldsparky52 said:


> Maybe you should give that J-man a copy of this book?
> 
> View attachment 154071
> 
> 
> My mother gave me a copy of this book back in '67. She said I needed it. It is a very good book. It was written 85 years ago and is still applicable.
> 
> 
> I haven't read this in a couple of decades. I used to read it every 5-10 years just to keep it semi fresh in my mind. IMO it should be mandatory reading when you enter high school.


“The Golden Rule“ works pretty well also.


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## splatz

oldsparky52 said:


> Maybe you should give that J-man a copy of this book?
> 
> My mother gave me a copy of this book back in '67. She said I needed it. It is a very good book. It was written 85 years ago and is still applicable.
> 
> I haven't read this in a couple of decades. I used to read it every 5-10 years just to keep it semi fresh in my mind. IMO it should be mandatory reading when you enter high school.


I agree, Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a classic. Another one I like of similar vintage is Norman Vincent Peale's "Power of Positive Thinking." The were written in a very different time and culture, they were already old when I read them a long time ago, but the ideas hold up.


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## oldsparky52

splatz said:


> I agree, Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" *is a classic*.


When I read that I thought "yea, like me". 😆


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## oldsparky52

Quickservice said:


> “Golden Rule“ works pretty well also.


and a lot less to learn.


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## 99cents

I was fired twice by the time I was a second year. By the time I was a 4th year, I had a foreman tell me I was the best apprentice he had ever seen. He must not have seen many apprentices. 🤣


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## Dennis Alwon

I have never been fired but it may be a sign. Unless you love the work I would consider another line of work. Some people are slow and it doesn't matter what you say or do. My wife used to work with me and I would say why is it taking so long-- she simply said that she one other speed and that was slower-- I just shut up... LOL

Do you feel like you are getting it? If not then it may not be for you... Maybe try a non-commercial company and see how that goes...residential wiring. I had 2 men that came to me from a commercial outfit. They both got laid off.. One now runs and owns my company and the other got his license and is slowly making it on his own- he works 2 days for himself and 3 for us-- well not me anymore..lol


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## 99cents

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have never been fired but it may be a sign. Unless you love the work I would consider another line of work. Some people are slow and it doesn't matter what you say or do. My wife used to work with me and I would say why is it taking so long-- she simply said that she one other speed and that was slower-- I just shut up... LOL
> 
> Do you feel like you are getting it? If not then it may not be for you... Maybe try a non-commercial company and see how that goes...residential wiring. I had 2 men that came to me from a commercial outfit. They both got laid off.. One now runs and owns my company and the other got his license and is slowly making it on his own- he works 2 days for himself and 3 for us-- well not me anymore..lol


I got fired when I was a second year by a guy who was probably the best electrician I ever knew. He was a good guy and tried to teach me but I had a hard time with a guy who set such high standards not just for me but for himself as well. I just wasn’t ready for that kind of one on one. He was running a business and I was costing him money. I had to go.

After that, I spent about six months as part of a crew running underground duct at a tank farm. It was exactly what I needed, communal grunt work where everybody just got together and did a job. By the time I was a third year, I was much more confident in myself and my abilities.

Second year can be awkward. People may expect you to know things when you really haven’t had a lot of experience.


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## ohm it hertz

I was going to suggest working for a small commercial outfit as a change of pace. Sometimes it's all you need.


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## blueheels2

I seemed to do better at small outfits. I don’t like the rigidity/corporate/ and safety culture at the large shops. Never forget this safety guy at Wayne Griffin thought he caught me working in a hot panel because the relay was lit up. 24v relay so no hot work. But he was smug/somewhat gleeful that he thought he was going to get to fire me. Not to disparage all safety men.


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## gpop

When communication breaks down its never going to get better. Even today im more than willing to turn to who ever is showing me something and say "dude your going to have to dumb that down for me as im not getting it"

You have to remember its frustrating for everyone involved. The j-man has a daily target that has to be meet to keep his boss happy. Now hes been given a helper which means the daily target has probably been increased and the J-men has never been taught how to train someone. Basically they give you a helper and tell you to show him the ropes and put him to work with no instruction on how to achieve this goal. 

Conduit is a art form if you are lucky you have a j-man thats older and has experience teaching other helpers or a guy who found learning the job difficult.
If you are un-lucky you have been matched up with a guy who is a natural and learnt to run conduit in less than a week. When your a natural its difficult to understand why the helper is struggling and to be honest its like watching a cockroach trying to f*** a jelly bean. So you ask the helper "what seems to be the problem" which may come of as being aggressive. Now the helper shuts down and refuses to speak or ask for advice. 

Part of my yearly pay rise is linked to my helpers education and i do not have daily targets so i have learn to take more time figuring out why the helper is struggling. When we are doing conduit in a heavily congested area i also get my helper to pull a string along the path he intends to take and mark the pull points with a lick of tape. Then we walk out the job to disgust problems with his plan especially with pull points. 

Don't get depressed just find another job and try again. This time ask for help or explain to the j-man what you are struggling with. Once the J-man understands the problem unless hes a **** hes going to help you figure out the solution or show you a trick of the trade. Like others have pointed out conduit is a small part of the trade. If it doesn't suit you pick a different part of the trade and try that instead.


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## paulengr

First things first. You work construction, you get to have a professional side job of job hunting ALL THE TIME. There are "permanent" gigs out there as in no lay offs but on a lot of them once you land a job and are working it, your very next move is lining up the next job. It's the same thing whether you're the owner or the worker. If you don't like it get out of construction or project work or whatever you call it. I've also heard that the average time someone is in a job these days is 18 months. Think about that...if you've been on the same job more than a year, you are above average! Construction workers are really just trend setters.

Second, how far you go in any company has a lot more to do with your boss than with you. Sorry, that's just how it is. It's a proven fact. If your boss is an idiot, you aren't going anywhere. It doesn't matter if they crap all over you or they are the best boss in the world to work for but fail to impress their boss. It's just how it is. It's not reflecting on you. Few bosses pay any attention to the workers 2 levels down because they don't work with them. Just recognize that this is how the world works and get over it. Once you do, you will start focusing on the right things to get ahead.

Finally as to the dynamic between your JW and you, let's look at it from the perspective of his boss. Say I know the JW pretty well...I know how long it takes to get things done. So I give that JW an apprentice. Although I'm no fool...I don't expect things to get done twice as fast, I do expect things to go faster than with just one person. The JW has you standing there just handing him parts and tools. Or having you run all the conduit while he stands there doing bends. So you are waiting on him to finish a bend before you install the next piece. So this is working in series, not parallel. So getting back to the boss, what he actually observes is that the job is taking just as long as the JW working alone. You're an apprentice and he needs someone that knows how to run conduit though, so you get cut. It's a simple business decision. Not your fault, but you can obviously see that this is the right decision from the boss's point of view. The boss might even know all the details and recognize that the JW can't work with anyone else. It doesn't matter from your point of view though...you were cut and that's all that matters to you. The lesson here is don't take it personally.

Remember point number 2? Get onto a different crew or a different company. Cut that guy loose. Even if you have to start "at the bottom" or do something else you may not like for a while, you don't need to stick with that idiot because it's clearly dragging you down. Trust me...it's not just the JW. If you don't like your job, you won't make any effort to do good work, and it will reflect in your workmanship. If I don't like someone it's really hard to listen to anything they have to say because I don't want to hear what they have to say anyway.

I'll leave you with this. Back in the 90's I had a room mate. His dad worked at GM for something like 30+ years and HATED IT. The room mate got summer jobs at GM and HATED IT. During that time he did some sot of visit to a company called Prince. They made the seats for the cars. They won all kinds of "best place to work" awards. They liked him and vice versa. He got a job offer from Prince and from GM. GM offered more money. And by more money I don't mean crazy amounts more. It was maybe 10% more. And it was his first job out of college too...not like he was going to be at that pay rate for long. So guess what he did? Yep...miserable. And as you can probably guess, that high paying job crap job didn't last long.

If you've spent 2 years as an apprentice by now you should have a pretty good idea of what the job is all about. So either you like doing what you are doing just need to be on a different team, or you don't. If you don't like it, get out. Stop wasting everyone's time. If you do like it, then stay with it.


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## tommydh

Definitely do not let that guy determine your life. Sometimes you get those guys I honestly think he really isnt as good as he thinks he is or he would realize you needed some guidance and help with the task. I can honestly say that I kinda was that guy at one point in my career always picking apart other guys work. Your in your second year so you are in that period that unless you were paired up with a great group and you were able to learn alot and show your skills JMs are gonna have that your green attitude. I personally choose to use 15 degree bends on most offset and try to start bends entering boxes around 12" if possible. (1/2",3/4" and 1"). 
Gut it out and one day you may get the chance to show that guy whats up.


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## ohm it hertz

I think I bought a linear mile of thinwall my first year, bending it in my spare time inside my garage after work. A whole pile of bad bends in the corner.

You gotta start somewhere.


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## Blockisle9

Grow some thicker skin and suck it up! He won’t be the first pain in the ass you come across in life.
I had one ball buster journeyman when I was a 1st and 2nd year apprentice. I sucked it up and 40 years later, I’m still in the trade with a masters license and I treat people the way I want to be treated.


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## gpop

Blockisle9 said:


> Grow some thicker skin and suck it up! He won’t be the first pain in the ass you come across in life.
> I had one ball buster journeyman.


The J-man who taught me conduit had a serious problem with conduit unions. Over the course of 1 year weaving pvc coated ridgid in very tight area's we used one union and even then he was seriously upset and made us hide it where it could not be seen. His favorite quote was "were electricians not f-ing plumbers". I have to admit the guy was a artist and if it looked wrong then we tore it down and started again. 

If you stand back 20' and the conduit stands out then we done it wrong. Some days i hated that guy (come to think of it, most days i hated that guy) Unfortunately i have become that guy.


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## LGLS

2nd year? Don't quit.


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