# Ansul System wiring



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Where will the 12v come from?


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

The micro switch in the ansul system that activates a 12v signal if a fire starts.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

are they just 12v switches or 120v micro switches? you can use contactors to control the fans and one switch can control the alarm. what about your gas valve


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

the micro switches have a 12v secondary. No one has asked about the gas valve.


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

the alarm is being taken care of by the alarm co.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

how can the microswitch have a 12v secondary? i dont understand what that means. you need to make sure you dont have too shut off all gas appliances under the hood when it goes into alarm.


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

I am told by the company who installed the ansul system that the micro switch sends out a 12v signal when activated. This 12v signal is to be connected to the disconnect means for all elec. related equip under hood.
I will have to ask them about the gas valve.


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

I found out that the gas valve is mechanically shut off when the system is activated.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I have no idea how to wire these things and I am contracted to do one in the next few weeks. Hopefully Captkirk knows how to wire them lol.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Is it 12V AC or 12 v DC? Shut trip breakers will need 12V DC.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I have no idea how to wire these things and I am contracted to do one in the next few weeks. Hopefully Captkirk knows how to wire them lol.


 It likely has a contactor, and the microswitch controls the coil.

There could be a fuse in the hood, that opens in case of fire, mechanically

operating the microswitch. There is usually a wiring diagram with the unit.

The range hood installer will tell you what is required. At least he should!

The gas valve has a solenoid. If you go to a Honeywell sight, you will

likely find a wiring diagram. It is a very common system. I am sorry I can 

not explain it any better.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

oldtimer said:


> It likely has a contactor, and the microswitch controls the coil.
> 
> There could be a fuse in the hood, that opens in case of fire, mechanically
> 
> ...



I've been through a few courses on control wiring but I don't do it very often. ,Motor controls/ lv alarm systems and so forth. That's kiddy wiring! :laughing:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

99Kilowatt said:


> I found out that the gas valve is mechanically shut off when the system is activated.


when i wired an ansul system the gas contractor gave me a gas valve reset control box. one of these http://www.heiserusa.com/Fire_System_Accessories/Reset_Relays/Reset_Relays/835

they are really easy to wire just use your brain to make it work. the way they wanted it to work was the intake fan would shut off, the gas valve would shut off and the exhaust would stay on or turn on if it was not already. i dont remember exactly how the fire alarm hooked up to it but it was really simple to wire. basic wiring. 2 contactors with 120v coils


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

if i remember correctly we had another microswitch installed for the fire alarm. we mounted an addressable module on the outside of the control box and ran 4 wires to the micro switch. the 2 positives spliced together and the 2 negatives spliced and went to the terminals of the switch. it went back to the module. Class A FA wiring. no resistor needed. we used fire lite products
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/f...sable-control-module-supervised-style-z-y-nac


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Since it is getting a new ansul system, is the old one wired up to shut the electric off when the system goes off?


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

99,
I've wired quite a few systems like your doing. I have never seen an ansul system that actually puts out any voltage, usually it's a micro switch attached to a cam mechanism, which is turned when the release handle is pulled. Usually for the line voltage equiptment we install a low voltage relay outside of the ansul cabinet, and use that to inturn shut off either a contactor or shunt trip panel. The gas solenoid is usually tied in with the hood control box. The exhaust must be on for the gas to flow. The hood control box usually has 2 contactors within it fresh air supply and exhaust. Usually they have auxilary contacts within the enclusure for such applications as fan shutdown and gas shutdown, as it all works together. If the unit trips out some municipalities want exhaust to remain on, others want all power to be cut so find out ahead of time. In my expierience the gas solenoid has always been 120 volts powered on to operate. I've put this on the same circuit as the hood lights and control circuit. hope this helps, or confuses the heck outa you


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I have no idea how to wire these things and I am contracted to do one in the next few weeks. Hopefully Captkirk knows how to wire them lol.


 
The system is simple once you understand it. I only do one every few years do I always have to sit down and draw it.

You will have a mechanically tripped set of contacts, both NO and NC.

The ex fan is on the NO (wired from the hot side of the switch), the make up air and gas valve or shunt trip wire are on the NC.

Cable is pulled, chemical is deployed, ex fan stays on (or goes on), make up air/gas/shunt trip shuts off.


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

I got it fellas.
Remove and install a shunt trip breaker for every electrical device under the hood.
Run a low voltage wire from the 12v micro switch in the ansul system to the 12v shunt trips.(Shunt trips come in several voltages)
Make sure that the make up air shuts off with the shunt trip(S) and the the exhaust stays on.
And... some fire marhalls will allow for the hood lights to stay on, but include them in the shunt trip application...
Make sure that there is either a mechanical or electronic shut off for the gas line.

I love my job!


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

99Kilowatt said:


> I got it fellas.
> Remove and install a shunt trip breaker for every electrical device under the hood.
> Run a low voltage wire from the 12v micro switch in the ansul system to the 12v shunt trips.(Shunt trips come in several voltages)
> Make sure that the make up air shuts off with the shunt trip(S) and the the exhaust stays on.
> ...


you can also install a small panel feeding the loads that is controlled with a shunt trip


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

electricalperson said:


> you can also install a small panel feeding the loads that is controlled with a shunt trip


Or a contactor or two and no shunt trip breaker.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I would check the watts requirement of the shunt trip breakers vs the output of your Ansul system. I've never messed with what you are describing but I would check loading on it.


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## 99Kilowatt (Feb 20, 2011)

crazyboy said:


> Since it is getting a new ansul system, is the old one wired up to shut the electric off when the system goes off?


No it's not, it's goofy.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

jefft110 said:


> Or a contactor or two and no shunt trip breaker.


read my previous posts


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry, Electricalperson. I was tired last night and missed where you mentioned the contactors multiple times.

I don't _think_ anybody mention this yet, but to the OP:

If you go the shunt trip route, remember to account for the extra panel slot that a shunt trip breaker uses. SP- 2 spaces, DP-3 spaces exc.


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## d.p.andres (Jun 13, 2011)

99Kilowatt said:


> the micro switches have a 12v secondary. No one has asked about the gas valve.


I've personally never wired an ansul system that used 12v controls, but the micro switches are exactly that, a switch, I've never seen or heard of one with a "12v secondary" obviously there is 120v to the box, hits a transformer, that is if your not using the fire alarm power to trip the shunts. Shunting any equipment under the hood. I have also noticed it depends on the fire marshal inspecting it weather or not it starts or kills power to the hood, has something to do with the make up air, but I have had to wire them diff, in the same building because of diff inspectors. The 12v controls I would like to know more about in case I run into that.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Do I need a disconnect switch beneath this unit? 

Can I have a separate switch to operate the lights inside the hood? 

Am I asking too many questions? 

I'm real nervous doing this job because I've never done one 'completely' before. 

I have to leave to go look at some more work but I appreciate any help thanks.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

We usually have to wire an electrical gas valve to close when the exhaust fan is turned off. There is a mechanical valve to shut off gas when the ansul is pulled


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Do I need a disconnect switch beneath this unit?
> 
> Can I have a separate switch to operate the lights inside the hood?
> 
> ...


Im having trouble following. A disconnect switch for what, and a separate switch to do what with the lights? You planning on using shunt trips or a contractor?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> Im having trouble following. A disconnect switch for what, and a separate switch to do what with the lights? You planning on using shunt trips or a contractor?


A disconnect switch for the exhaust hood. 

A separate switch to turn the exhaust hood lights on/ off. 

I don't know WTF I plan on doing because I don't know what I'm doing - that's why I asked!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Are you sure it is a 12 volt self powered system of just a 12 volt rated micro switch ? Every ansul I've encountered has a 120 volt micro switch which I control a DPDT contactor with to throw off make up air and turn on exhaust. One on occasion the FM had me install a 24 v anunciator in the main restaurant area


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Thats a Pyro-chem system.
The micros are just dry form c switches.
120v AC 2 Amp rated.

They provide NO power of any type.
They simply open or close on activation.

In picture 2- the top cable is for the pull,right is for the thermal links and the left goes to the gas valve.
The N2 cartridge is placed above the 1/4" line.
When the system activates it fires the cartridge and then that fires off the tank.

NFPA 17A has all the requirements.

Basically ALL fuel sources have to shut down-IE: gas valve,all electrical under the hood- hood to floor have to be de-energized, make up air must shut down and The AHJ may or may not want the exhaust to shut down.

Most times the exhaust stays on.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

leland said:


> Thats a Pyro-chem system.
> The micros are just dry form c switches.
> 120v AC 2 Amp rated.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you. I have yet to see a set of contacts that were not dry on these systems.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> A disconnect switch for the exhaust hood.
> 
> A separate switch to turn the exhaust hood lights on/ off.
> 
> I don't know WTF I plan on doing because I don't know what I'm doing - that's why I asked!


You still have all your regular switches to turn the hood lights, make up air, and exhaust on and off for day to day operations. If your doing the contactor route you would just take the feeds to the under hood equipment either before or after the normal operation switches and feed them through the nc contacts. The microswitch in the ansul system is a dry contact, so think of it as a switch loop to the coil on the contactor. There you go, the system goes off, microswitch closes which sends voltage to the coil which opens and shuts off the lights etc. Then if you need to have the exhaust turn on put another contactor in and wire up the no contacts, and connect it to the make up air after the normal day to day operations switch. This way when the system goes off the contacts will close and you have the exhaust fan turn on regardless of whether the switch is off or on. You're going to have to check with the fire marshal on what they want the exhaust fan to do. If you're going the shunt trip way you would just use the microswitch to energize the shunt coil on the breaker that feeds the under hood stuff. Just remember each breaker that needs a shunt trip is going to take up an extra space, and shunt trip breakers aren't cheap. If it's only one item under the hood that needs to get shut down, and the panel is close that may be a more viable option. If there's a large amount of items under the hood you can set a sub panel with all the under hood equipment fed from it and have the shunt trip on the breaker feeding the sub panel. I'm hoping I understood your question and this helps you out some, If not then...


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> You still have all your regular switches to turn the hood lights, make up air, and exhaust on and off for day to day operations. If your doing the contactor route you would just take the feeds to the under hood equipment either before or after the normal operation switches and feed them through the nc contacts. The microswitch in the ansul system is a dry contact, so think of it as a switch loop to the coil on the contactor. There you go, the system goes off, microswitch closes which sends voltage to the coil which opens and shuts off the lights etc. Then if you need to have the exhaust turn on put another contactor in and wire up the no contacts, and connect it to the make up air after the normal day to day operations switch. This way when the system goes off the contacts will close and you have the exhaust fan turn on regardless of whether the switch is off or on. You're going to have to check with the fire marshal on what they want the exhaust fan to do. If you're going the shunt trip way you would just use the microswitch to energize the shunt coil on the breaker that feeds the under hood stuff. Just remember each breaker that needs a shunt trip is going to take up an extra space, and shunt trip breakers aren't cheap. If it's only one item under the hood that needs to get shut down, and the panel is close that may be a more viable option. If there's a large amount of items under the hood you can set a sub panel with all the under hood equipment fed from it and have the shunt trip on the breaker feeding the sub panel. I'm hoping I understood your question and this helps you out some, If not then...



Most people just shunt the entire kitchen panel.
General lighting is usually out of a house panel.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's a bit more complicated, but not a lot.

When the cable is pulled and the micro switches are tripped:

Gas valve, electric fryers, and make up air must shut off.

Exhaust hood must turn (or remain) on.

Sometimes they want the lights off also. Not in my area.

Shunt trip breakers make sense in some situations. The 120V micro switches make sense on most things. The units I've installed had two or three (each) NO and NC contacts right at the ansul supply trigger.


Gah! That was for the OP








Mag. 



> Do I need a disconnect switch beneath this unit?


No




> Can I have a separate switch to operate the lights inside the hood?


The lights generally have a separate switch for normal operation. They may or may not be required to be disconected when the system is activated.

That is the exact system I hooked a while back. 

Tell us exactly what equipment is under the hood and if the lights are required to be shut off. The rest is cake.


Put a short piece of conduit/flex on the pigtails and terminate everything in a 4S box. Run some conduit/flex from the ex fan/mua switch (possibly the lights) and another to the gas valve (if applicable)

You have two (white) commons, two NO's and two NC's. The NO, NC thing confused me with the "held open/closed" thing. Determine if the system is cocked, and ring them out to be sure. Usually they don't activate them until all the testing has been done.


Run the exhaust fan switch leg (from the *line* side) thru a NO contact. In case of fire, you want to vent the building even if the switch is turned off.

Run the make up air switch leg (from load side) thru a NC contact. In case of a fire, the last thing you want is fresh air being pumped in.



I believe the gas valve will be a NC type so power it (to open it) via a NC contact. There is not much amperage so it can be powered off the ex fan/mua circuit.

If there are any shunt trip reakers involved, I believe they activate/tripped by the 120 power. If so, they will go on a NO contact.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

220/221 said:


> It's a bit more complicated, but not a lot.
> 
> When the cable is pulled and the micro switches are tripped:
> 
> ...


Sheesh, that's like what I said but much easier to read. :thumbup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> Sheesh, that's like what I said but much easier to read. :thumbup:


Paragraphs. Very short paragraphs.


When you sketch a simple drawing, it's even easier. When it's done you realize it's no more complicated than a 3way/4way switch.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

NFPA 17A 4.4.3
(summary)
All sources of fuel and electric power that produce heat to all equipment shall be shut down.(lamps produce heat)

Exhaust fans and dampers shall not be required to shut down.As they have been tested under zero and high velocity situations.

the gas valve must shut down 1st- the reason the control head activates it.

shut off devices shall require manual resetting after activation. (resetting the control head covers this,as the micros will reset then too.)


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Thank you all who have replied to this thread in attempt to help me out. I sincerely appreciate your gratitude and I know more now than I did even yesterday. Thank you!

However, my friend CaptKirk is coming to bail me out tomorrow afternoon and then I get to wire a service with him the week after next. It must be the power of ElectricianTalk that gets me through. 

See you tomorrow Tony. 

Thank you!


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## JustElectric (May 13, 2015)

Hi I wanted to know if anyone could help with wiring up an ansul system. There are two exhaust fans and two makeup air on roof and ansul guy said needs to be wired with contractor which I'm guessing is a micro switch that I've changed out before but never wired up from start. It is a single phase setup can anyone please help?


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## JustElectric (May 13, 2015)

Sorry I meant contactor is in guessing the shunt trip not micro switch. But I know it should be wired with a micro switch


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

All power needs to be killed under the hood too. Micro switch to contactor or contactors you might have too kill lights too.Hood stays on all else off. plumbers here do the gas valve.


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## JustElectric (May 13, 2015)

Ok just to recap. Hot from shunt to common, nc to receptacle, and no to fan make up air and lights?


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