# How are you supposed to get enough hours to transfer locals on book 2?



## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

So I just perminantly moved back to my home state that has a lot of work, but now I found out that because I am book 2, the hall will force or pressure my contractor to lay me off before the book 1 guys. I am with a 300 guy shop, so big layoffs will come this winter, the sup already said he wants to keep me, but he will have to layoff a large numbers (of book 1 guys) because of the size of the shop. 

So this makes sense when there are true travelers on the job just here temporarily, but is BS for people trying to get enough hours to transfer. I might just have to quit now and get on with a smaller shop that won't have coming layoffs.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

So you want to be put ahead of a local member. Boy, if I was a member and someone from a different local got to work and I was laid off, I'd be pissed!


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

backstay said:


> So you want to be put ahead of a local member. Boy, if I was a member and someone from a different local got to work and I was laid off, I'd be pissed!


I'm not being "put ahead." It means keep me because I am a better worker and getting rid of the hall bum who doesn't want to work.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

henderson14 said:


> backstay said:
> 
> 
> > So you want to be put ahead of a local member. Boy, if I was a member and someone from a different local got to work and I was laid off, I'd be pissed!
> ...


...would it be fair to say you are no different than any other traveler , regardless of where you or they live, until you receive your transfer to that local?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

henderson14 said:


> I'm not being "put ahead." It means keep me because I am a better worker and getting rid of the hall bum who doesn't want to work.


News flash for you, the union is there to protect the "hall bum" not you.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Welcome to the IBEW.
Once you join a local, you may be stuck with that one.

What you describe happens here and probably everywhere.
Join 1 local, move to Vegas, are here many years, but still book 2.

As you know book 2 only gets work if the book 1 can't staff it.
Book 2 are the 1st to be laid off.
If you didn't know book 2 can't be a foreman, unless again the local book 1 can't staff it.

When those rules are broken there can be a **** storm starting with complaints to the steward. It may end with the e-board and disciplinary action of the e-board of somebody. It may be for something else unrelated. Or a marked target on other jobs. But there is recourse.

The idea is that guys working should be able to work in their home area. If a traveler takes a job and a local is out of work, it could require the local to also travel. 

I agree there should be an easier way to change locals.
Here it seems like it takes years of working as a book 2 in the local, being involved with union activities, befriending the locals, and more importantly being buddies with the powers at the hall.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Trouble in union paradise?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

360max said:


> ...would it be fair to say you are no different than any other traveler , regardless of where you or they live, until you receive your transfer to that local?


No it would not be fair or accurate as I already pointed out. I am different in that my permanent residence is in the new local. A normal travelers permanent residence is in their home local.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

matt1124 said:


> Trouble in union paradise?


This is one reason of many no young kids want to join a union or trade. You're telling a kid if he ever wants to move he basically can't because he won't have steady employment and be the first laid off or he will have to go non union. So he will be stuck for his career in his geographic location. With outdated thinking like this the unions have no hope.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

It really sounds like you don't like the union. I guess there are trade offs for the things you get.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Protecting Book One is the core IBEW mission.

If the brothers didn't want the work, they'd flat drop out, altogether.

Younger men will always resent the tempo of their seniors -- guys old enough to be their fathers.

They can't quite imagine what the future holds for them: they'll slow down, too.

Protecting senior brothers is also a core IBEW mission. 

Before unions, it was common for ruthless employers to turf out seasoned hands -- like they were professional athletes -- by age 38 ish. ( 18th and 19th Centuries )

The bosses never retired themselves at 40, of course.

They'd hang on like the Pope, or the King.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

telsa said:


> Protecting Book One is the core IBEW mission.
> 
> If the brothers didn't want the work, they'd flat drop out, altogether.
> 
> ...


My first employer did that exact same model..once a guy approaches 40 he..is..gone!

The whole company was a "fast track the youth" movement


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

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lighterup said:


> My first employer did that exact same model..once a guy approaches 40 he..is..gone!
> 
> The whole company was a "fast track the youth" movement


Honestly, I rarely see older guys on projects these days. But the books are a walk through, so I can only assume they drop out and find different careers. This job is far too physically demanding.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

henderson14 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> Honestly, I rarely see older guys on projects these days. But the books are a walk through, so I can only assume they drop out and find different careers. This job is far too physically demanding.


What a hoot!


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

I talked to the international. Once I get 2000 hours the local has to let me on book 1.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> Honestly, I rarely see older guys on projects these days. But the books are a walk through, so I can only assume they drop out and find different careers. *This job is far too physically demanding.*


Did you really say that?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> I talked to the international. Once I get 2000 hours the local has to let me on book 1.


Jamming your book in is the best way to make enemies with every single member of the local. :laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> This is one reason of many no young kids want to join a union or trade.


 That's simply not true. Most locals have far more applicants than open spots. Some have thousands of applicants.



> You're telling a kid if he ever wants to move he basically can't because he won't have steady employment and be the first laid off or he will have to go non union. So he will be stuck for his career in his geographic location.


Yes, that was explained to you when you signed up. I clearly remember it during the initiation ceremony. 

You made a deal, don't blame other people because you are now trying to break it.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That's simply not true. Most locals have far more applicants than open spots. Some have thousands of applicants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't know what's was explained to me. I don't even know what an initiation ceremony is.

Correction. No HALFWAY INTELLIGENT kids want to sign up. It's a sight for sore eyes looking at the kids trying to get in these days.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> You don't know what's was explained to me. I don't even know what an initiation ceremony is.
> 
> Correction. No HALFWAY INTELLIGENT kids want to sign up. It's a sight for sore eyes looking at the kids trying to get in these days.


I know what is in your bylaws that you were supposed to read. I also know that this crap you are spewing here about only "HALFWAY INTELLIGENT kids" wanting to sign up and how you are a "better worker than the hall bum" shows that you are the exact type of union member that no one else wants to be associated with. 

But go on, tell us more...


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

henderson14 said:


> No it would not be fair or accurate as I already pointed out. I am different in that my permanent residence is in the new local. A normal travelers permanent residence is in their home local.



You're not different and that is why this new reality of yours stings so much.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

henderson14, let's try to have a reasonable and adult-like conversation about this.

The entire point of the IBEW was to have members of locals in certain areas and allow them to travel to other locals. But you were always a member of your home local. That's just the way it is. If people could change locals at will there would be 750,000 members trying to move to different areas as work comes and goes. 

I understand that you want to be able to move and become a member of a different local, but that's not how it works, and it's not what you signed up for. So blaming others doesn't work. And calling all the people in the hall you want to join "hall bums" isn't going to help you. Also, lying about people not wanting to join because they can't change locals isn't true either. 

In 20 years as a member of the IBEW I have never once heard of someone not wanting to join because they can't change locals. It's just a silly thing to say. I know you are frustrated, but the hyperbole won't get you anywhere.

I see it like this: You signed up for it, you certainly aren't changing it. If you don't like it, you can always go non-union.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

In my local, if a member from another local wants to join, he or she must go through our organizing. It seems to work pretty well.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> henderson14, let's try to have a reasonable and adult-like conversation about this.
> 
> The entire point of the IBEW was to have members of locals in certain areas and allow them to travel to other locals. But you were always a member of your home local. That's just the way it is. If people could change locals at will there would be 750,000 members trying to move to different areas as work comes and goes.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about. You CAN change locals and there are procedures to do so, so that is how it works. They don't have to make it easy, but the option has to be available.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> What are you talking about. You CAN change locals and there are procedures to do so, so that is how it works. They don't have to make it easy, but the option has to be available.


Yes, it's very hard and usually looked down upon when you do it by force. As I said, you can't just change locals at will.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

henderson14 said:


> You don't know what's was explained to me. I don't even know what an initiation ceremony is.
> 
> Correction. No HALFWAY INTELLIGENT kids want to sign up. It's a sight for sore eyes looking at the kids trying to get in these days.


So if no one halfway intelligent joins the IBEW, then what does that make you?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> So if no one halfway intelligent joins the IBEW, then what does that make you?


The honest answer is because I had ADD and couldn't hold my accounting jobs or many jobs, so I thought a trade would be better. I would have never gotten into it or completed the program if I had not had ADD or found a medication that worked.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

One of my classmates moved to 305, due to his wife's job. Work was booming at the time and they couldn't fill 40 hour calls. He helped to man them, from book 2. In the mean time he attended the monthly meeting and volunteered to help with events. He was invited to move his traveler in about 4 months at 600 hours. Unanimously voted in, cause he was a member you wanted in your local. That's how you do it right. Ticket jammers hurt the brotherhood.


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