# It amazes me.



## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

I went to troubleshoot a home tonight and look what I found.
The homeowners just bought the house a month ago. Amazingly this passed a home inspection. Wow.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

That Crouse Hinds stab in main is dommed for failure. I've replaced dozens of them. How you gonna fix the bootleg ground?


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

KLovelace29 said:


> I went to troubleshoot a home tonight and look what I found.
> The homeowners just bought the house a month ago. Amazingly this passed a home inspection. Wow.


Not suprising most home inspectors are a joke. Like another trade there are good and bad. I had run ins with a lot of stupid ones before the housing bubble burst.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Leviton is the brand of Hacks.... it should be banned.


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

I took the bootleg ground jumper off. There was no grounding conductor in the old Romex. Metal boxes, too. That's as far as I went considering what I found. I guess it'll need a GFCI (on the first receptacle) or be replaced with a 2 prong receptacle. A complete rewire would be my choice. There's so much hack crap there...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with the panel.. sloppy.. but not a code violation..

The receptacle would of tested OK with the basic plug in tester we all use..

Only way you would find that mess is buy pulling every receptacle out for inspection..

I don't know anyone who does that.. even one of us.. 

If I am going to pull every receptacle for visual inspection.. I am changing them at the same time..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Leviton is the brand of Hacks.... it should be banned.


Nice try.. but it didn't stick to the wall.. :no::no::no:

And I never said blue Carlon boxes should be banned.. only that they were a *red flag* that there is a very good chance hack work is lurking behind closed walls..


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I thought the blue backed receptacles were Coopers, or at least the hacked in ones I pulled out of a house last week were. Swapped in Hubbell CR15-Ts


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## John25 (Mar 5, 2008)

B4T said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the panel.. sloppy.. but not a code violation..
> 
> The receptacle would of tested OK with the basic plug in tester we all use..
> 
> ...


 One look in the panel and I would assume neutral ground jumpers.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

John25 said:


> One look in the panel and I would assume neutral ground jumpers.


Why.. :blink::blink:.. look again.. the grounds are braided and that old gray romex had a #16 ground conductor..

They used to leave the ground outside the metal jem box and wrap it around the screw that holds the side plate on..

I never got a good reason why they didn't keep the conductors together in the metal jem box other than box fix capacity..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Nice try.. but it didn't stick to the wall.. :no::no::no:


Of course it didn't stick to the wall......... the screws are missing. :laughing:




B4T said:


> And I never said blue Carlon boxes should be banned.. only that they were a *red flag* that there is a very good chance hack work is lurking behind closed walls..


I'm just completing what you started.:whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I'm just completing what you started.:whistling2:


You better pack a lunch.. it will never be completed any time soon.. :001_huh::laughing:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

B4T said:


> You better pack a lunch.. it will never be completed any time soon.. :001_huh::laughing:


 Naw., get the buffet truck out there we will spend pretty good part of time on that.

Merci,
Marc


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why.. :blink::blink:.. look again.. the grounds are braided and that old gray romex had a #16 ground conductor..
> 
> They used to leave the ground outside the metal jem box and wrap it around the screw that holds the side plate on..
> 
> I never got a good reason why they didn't keep the conductors together in the metal jem box other than box fix capacity..


 

It doesn't matter if the grounds are braided, any idiot can still see 2 wire NM in the panel. Also, a home inspector should pull some (if not all) plates and look around.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> It doesn't matter if the grounds are braided, any idiot can still see 2 wire NM in the panel. Also, a home inspector should pull some (if not all) plates and look around.


You're dreaming if pulling off plates is going to tell you anything.. they use a "receptacle tester" same as what we do..

That (2) wire romex has a ground.. again you're dreaming.. (we).. not even you.. don't know if there was a ground existing in that metal box on the outside.. connected to a plate screw..

You can't tell from the pics if some NM there is without a ground..


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

Some of the NM had a ground wire and was properly grounded to the receptacle. However, other receptacles on that circuit didn't. From what I was told by the homeowner, the inspector removed one receptacle cover in a bedroom. They told me the seller had agreed to fix the "grounding issues" prior to sale. I love how he fixed it. You can see it from the picture but in the panel there are various wires attached to the neutral bar that don't lead anywhere. They're just free hanging. Messy panels make me mad. I'd be embarrassed if that was my work. I guess I'm a panelboard snob...


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Nice try.. but it didn't stick to the wall.. :no::no::no:
> 
> And I never said blue Carlon boxes should be banned.. only that they were a red flag that there is a very good chance hack work is lurking behind closed walls..


What boxes do you use for rough in?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

After a while, you'll stop being amazed by crap you find and just get down to work. Oh, and I agree that this bootleg ground probably would not have been found by 99% of home inspectors, so I really don't see any shame there. Few own the instrument to check for that.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

God man said:


> What boxes do you use for rough in?


I use either black Thomas & Betts or gray Slater boxes.. the blue Carlon box thing is a long running rant started by me.. :laughing:


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## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

KLovelace29 said:


> I guess I'm a panelboard snob...


Gosh I hear ya. Meeee toooo......!! Terminations have to be craftsmanlike at the very least!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why.. :blink::blink:.. look again.. the grounds are braided and that old gray romex had a #16 ground conductor..
> 
> They used to leave the ground outside the metal jem box and wrap it around the screw that holds the side plate on..
> 
> I never got a good reason why they didn't keep the conductors together in the metal jem box other than box fix capacity..


 

It's called a Boston backwrap, and they did it because ground wires were new and they didn't know what else to do with this extra wire.


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

FireInTheWire said:


> Gosh I hear ya. Meeee toooo......!! Terminations have to be craftsmanlike at the very least!


"Neat and workmanlike" doesn't click with some, I guess. Everyone has their own way of doing things... I just blame my OCD.


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## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

KLovelace29 said:


> "Neat and workmanlike" doesn't click with some, I guess. Everyone has their own way of doing things... I just blame my OCD.


I blame doing comm before starting my apprenticeship. Ever pinstriped the fiber cables in a data center??? That'll make anyone obsessive! Lol. But, at least when people look at our work they can see clearly what's going on.


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

Ahhh maybe that explains it. I ran CATV for my first few months in the trade. The grumpy old man I worked under was very meticulous and thorough. Plus, I was an MP in the Army for 7 years... Attention to detail!


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## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

KLovelace29 said:


> Ahhh maybe that explains it. I ran CATV for my first few months in the trade. The grumpy old man I worked under was very meticulous and thorough. Plus, I was an MP in the Army for 7 years... Attention to detail!


Totally!


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