# thermograph inspection for homes electrical system



## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

Useless unless you put every circuit under load. A circuit that has no load won't show anything.


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## yanbu (May 16, 2011)

Tsmil said:


> Useless unless you put every circuit under load. A circuit that has no load won't show anything.


 
did I say I will test a no load circuit?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

If it were my house, I would just open every device and panel and check the terminations. I wouldn't drop a couple of grand on one of those unless I had a job lined up for it.

Here in the States, we can rent one from home depot for 1/2 day for less than $100


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

yanbu said:


> did I say I will test a no load circuit?


what you JUST said, was that you can't take advice when offered.
Need to step back a little, Dont take it personal when someone gives an opinion.
::rolleyes


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## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

Did not mean to offend. 

I do not have a thermograph myself but I hired someone that has one to do a scan of my house after construction was complete. He photographed everything and that is where I noticed he did not load the circuits. I had him back to redo and found 3 loose connections that did not show up the first time.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Never heard of someone doing infrared on the electrical work in a house. I suppose it could work. For the time and effort of loading and shooting each device, I almost think you'd be in the same boat just unzipping them with a screw-gun and checking the terminals by hand.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

yanbu said:


> hi
> 
> I plan to purchase a thermograph camera to inspect my home electrical system (wiring, panel, receptacle, lighting .. etc)
> 
> ...


There a few on this forum who have extensive experience using the cameras. As far as I know you are viewing "relative" heat differences between surrounding surfaces. In using one for an electrical system the others who have said so are correct in saying a load should be on the circuits/terminal as those points where a connection may not be sufficient the non efficient energy transfer will show up as a increase in heat that will be transmitted to the surrounding surfaces.


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## antique electrician (Apr 16, 2012)

Maybe you could get Mike Holmes to do it for you.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Why not get a Ideal Suretest.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Why not use one of those cheap laser thingies that tells you the temperature of the surface you point at. They aren't great but I used one to find the in-floor heat lines in my garage.


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## yanbu (May 16, 2011)

JohnR said:


> what you JUST said, was that you can't take advice when offered.
> Need to step back a little, Dont take it personal when someone gives an opinion.
> ::rolleyes


 
yes, you are right. it seems that I was over. sorry for all


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## Tsmil (Jul 17, 2011)

Big John said:


> Never heard of someone doing infrared on the electrical work in a house. I suppose it could work. For the time and effort of loading and shooting each device, I almost think you'd be in the same boat just unzipping them with a screw-gun and checking the terminals by hand.


Very true that doing it like you said would be more cost effective. I do have the belief (right or wrong) that the more handling that is done with the conductors, that the greater the chance of future failure. Since this was a new construction and the EC that was hired had a very good reputation and he did use apprentices on the job, I wanted to not disturb anything that did not need to be disturbed. 
I could have done the electrical myself but since residential is not my specialty and I could not do it as efficiently as they could, I chose to not do it myself.
Btw, I did let the EC know the results of my testing and gave him praise for his very tidy work. It proved to be a good learning exercise for all of us.


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

bauler said:


> Why not get a Ideal Suretest.


How is that going to help. I have one and I guess you know about a function that I don't, always good to know more....


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

In addition to our full IR cameras I carry this with me for quick spot checks.

Should mention I do commercial/industrial work 95% of the time


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

zwodubber said:


>


 Run, she's gonna bloooooooowwwww!


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Auselect said:


> How is that going to help. I have one and I guess you know about a function that I don't, always good to know more....


You're trying to find loose connections right? Use the voltage drop function. It's not prefect, but I have found bad connections that way, How I are you going to use an infred device to find bad splices in J-boxes ect?


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Yanbu, the arabic Cletis.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

Recently purchased the I7. Used it successfully for a troubleshoot call. Picked up a loose connection rather quickly.... What could of potentially been a 2-3 hour troubleshoot took 30 minutes. However, now you have a dilemma of trying to collect payment of what might of been more justified In the customers eyes if you spent more time searching for the problem.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

why not just meg the house?

~CS~


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

Not sure why I decided to use the I7 over my megger, but I did and it did


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

flir cameras show drastic changes in the image with just a little change in temp
unless you are doing industrial panels a lot its not worth getting one for residential 
you can use non contact ir laser and get the same results for a lot less cost.

check for loose connections by tightening the screws 
you will find the loose ones quickly and take care of some problem spots at the same time.

do not feel sorry or ashamed for asking questions 
in our line of work lack of knowledge can be fatal.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

gnuuser said:


> flir cameras show drastic changes in the image with just a little change in temp
> unless you are doing industrial panels a lot its not worth getting one for residential
> you can use non contact ir laser and get the same results for a lot less cost.
> 
> ...


This would be your opinion but far from fact.


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## Paulusgnome (Mar 28, 2009)

In my last job I was technical support engineer for a distributor/manufacturer of electrical switchgear.
One of the things that regularly came our way there was sets of IR photos that showed circuit breakers, motor overloads and the like running 'hot', which when analysed were found to be operating within the allowed temperature rise limits. The camera operators had good equipment, but usually had very little knowledge of how to interpret the resulting pictures.
Hence, my advice to prospective purchasers of IR cameras is to take whatever training you can in the correct operation of the camera and interpretation of the resulting photos. It is a very bad look to be told that the photos that you have taken and flagged up as showing a fault are actually quite normal and do not show any problem at all.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Can you do that with the panel cover on?

and certainly if I inspect a panel during a heat wave, it's warm to the touch. But I consider that normal with 100% A/C load.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Spark Master said:


> Can you do that with the panel cover on?
> 
> and certainly if I inspect a panel during a heat wave, it's warm to the touch. But I consider that normal with 100% A/C load.


Always remove the panel cover. These tools are not x-rays. You need the entire breaker and termination points exposed to see real results and exactly where the heat source is originating.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

zwodubber said:


> Always remove the panel cover. These tools are not x-rays. You need the entire breaker and termination points exposed to see real results and exactly where the heat source is originating.


I was just curious, because of 70E stuff. Basically requires you to turn power off.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Spark Master said:


> I was just curious, because of 70E stuff. Basically requires you to turn power off.


 With appropriate PPE, qualified people can remove panel covers under the exception for testing and troubleshooting. The guys taking the photos either need to be suited up, or else just stand back outside of the flash boundary.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Since Milwaukee came out with the m12 infrared thermal imager, Which is at least half the price of a fluke.. I have been thinking about getting one.

But I just cant see the point... I do all residential. It's almost useless and I will never get my money back from it. 

I'd also like to use it on my old house to seal up cold spots... But probably a cheapo laser model will do just as good for detecting the drafts.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

FastFokker said:


> Since Milwaukee came out with the m12 infrared thermal imager, Which is at least half the price of a fluke.. I have been thinking about getting one.
> 
> But I just cant see the point... I do all residential. It's almost useless and I will never get my money back from it.
> 
> I'd also like to use it on my old house to seal up cold spots... But probably a cheapo laser model will do just as good for detecting the drafts.


I know guys that use them for building inspections to look for drafts, insulation voids, roof leaks, etc. 

For electrical inspections, I see much more use for IR in an industrial setting than residential.


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## zapped_electric (May 24, 2013)

I use a thermo cam quite frequently. I have a Fluke TiS. 

If your not experianced with one, I recommend you hire a pro. Everyone thinks it's simple, but if you don't know what your reading you can esially pick up reflections (usually from your body) on the equipment you are inspection. These signals can look like hot spots, but there actually is none.

If your divices are old, you are likely better off just replaceing them & checking the splices., Again, not rocket science, but if you mess a splice up, you could cause yoursel more harm then good. The thermo cam is nice when inspecting panels, but like mentioned, if a trouble circuit wasn't loaded, it wouldn't pick up the heat caused by the problem.

By the way, my thermo cam was over $2500 USD when I bought it. You could easily hire someone to replace mostly every device & fixture for that price & get a good panel inspection.


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

How much do you charge for a thermal cam inspection? I'd like to justify the price, before investing in a pricey piece of equipment.


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## zapped_electric (May 24, 2013)

noarcflash said:


> How much do you charge for a thermal cam inspection? I'd like to justify the price, before investing in a pricey piece of equipment.


I am not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll reply.

I do a lot of Govenment work & they require thermo inspections. It was a matter of necessity for the contract. 

If I were to do it strictly for homeowner's, I don't think that a $100 fee for the camera would be excessive. You are offering a service that can potentially find faults that a regualr inspection would miss, plus, the home owner may even be interested in other inpections. I had one guy ask me to inspect his house from outside in the winter. It was great for detecting the heat loss around some windows as well as the attic. 

The more you use it, the more comfortable you get. I don't know what they cost now, but it helped my business. It paid for itslef the first year.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

noarcflash said:


> How much do you charge for a thermal cam inspection? I'd like to justify the price, before investing in a pricey piece of equipment.


The price of the camera is nothing, the training and certifications is where your cost will be. Many facilities require proof of certification(s)


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