# AFCI in kitchen lighting circuits



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Sliver said:


> I was asked today by my journeyman if lighting circuits in resi kitchens need an AFCI. The lights on the circuit are only in the kitchen.
> 
> I looked it up in the code book and kitchens, as far as I can tell, aren't on the list of rooms where it is required. I was wondering if anyone on here knows if its required, if it is where is it in the NEC. Also if it isn't required, why are kitchens exempt from needing AFCI?


NEC 2011 210.12(A) Kitchen is not listed as needing them. I usually feed the kitchen and dinning room lights together, so they get one. Also excluded:bath, laundry and a mechanical rm. Why, well I couldn't tell you!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sliver said:


> I was asked today by my journeyman if lighting circuits in resi kitchens need an AFCI. The lights on the circuit are only in the kitchen.
> 
> I looked it up in the code book and kitchens, as far as I can tell, aren't on the list of rooms where it is required. I was wondering if anyone on here knows if its required, if it is where is it in the NEC. Also if it isn't required, why are kitchens exempt from needing AFCI?





> why are kitchens exempt from needing AFCI?[/


That is a good question,,,I am willing to bet that by the 2017 NEC they will be required everywhere in a dwelling...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Since all the 'areas' not listed as requiring AFCI protection are areas requiring GFCI protection, I'd say that has something to do with it.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Since all the 'areas' not listed as requiring AFCI protection are areas requiring GFCI protection, I'd say that has something to do with it.


Yeah, because most kitchen lighting requires GFCI protection. :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Yeah, because most kitchen lighting requires GFCI protection. :no:


Where does it say that in the code..?


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## vickieB (Feb 21, 2011)

I know it to be GFCI in the kitchen and other wet areas. All other circuits must be AFCI. Love the new code!


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

vickieB said:


> I know it to be GFCI in the kitchen and other wet areas. All other circuits must be AFCI. Love the new code!


I hope the lighting in your kitchen isn't a wet area. The OP asked about the lighting circuit in a kitchen. NEC 2011 210.12(A) Kitchen, bath, laundry and a mechanical rm lighting outlets are not listed in the article.


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

The statement of "similar rooms or areas" is vague and I could see an inspector saying the kitchen lights would need AFCI protection.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> The statement of "similar rooms or areas" is vague and I could see an inspector saying the kitchen lights would need AFCI protection.


 
With the long list of rooms in 210.12(A) why would kitchen be left out. I mean look, it says libraries and parlors. How many homes have such rooms. But a building has to have a kitchen to qualify as a dewlling. I say not required. Maybe NEC 2014 but not now.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The rooms left out are rooms that have some sort of GFCI requirement. I can't say _why_, but I'm sure it has some bearing.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

This from the ROP:

2-167 Log #687 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.12(B))
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Keith M. Whitesel, Whitesel Electric
Recommendation: Delete “Dining rooms” from the list of rooms that require AFCI protection.
Substantiation: Since Kitchens and Bathrooms are not on the list I can only assume that it is because they have GFCI protection.
210.52 allows dining rooms to be fed from the small appliance circuits. The current requirement in 210.12 for AFCI protection on the dining room receptacles would force BOTH GFCI and AFCI protection on the small appliance circuit if it also feeds the dining room. Have both AFCIs GFCIs been tested along with each other to function properly?
210.8 does not require kitchen wall receptacles to be GFCI protected so why are the dining room wall receptacles required to be so protected.
While I agree that AFCI protection has great potential for saving lives and property, the technology has not been around long enough and used long enough to promote it into all areas of a house. Just as GFCI protection needed to prove itself reliable so does AFCI protection.
See the supporting material I have provided for further possible wiring connections that will be affected.
Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The list of rooms currently in 210.12(B) was developed based on proposals and comments in the 2008 cycle that allowed for an incremental expansion of AFCI. Having or not having GFCI protection does not impact the AFCI requirements. The panel also notes that AFCI protected circuits can have GFCI receptacles installed without compatibility issues.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Abstain: 1
Explanation of Abstention:
ORLOWSKI, S.: Please see NAHB’s Comment on Proposal 2-152.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> This from the ROP:
> 
> 2-167 Log #687 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
> (210.12(B))
> ...


 
Am I the only one seeing the lighting part of this thread? We are not talking about the SABC or required GFCI outlets. Lighting in the kitchen cannot be on the SABC.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

backstay said:


> Am I the only one seeing the lighting part of this thread? We are not talking about the SABC or required GFCI outlets. Lighting in the kitchen cannot be on the SABC.



No, you're not. I posted this because it answers the OP's question.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> No, you're not. I posted this because it answers the OP's question.


It was interesting reading, thank you. I just don't see why there is a connection in rooms like the kitchen. The bath I see, the lighting could come from the GFCI protected receptacle. Just another case where the code writers have us confounded!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

backstay said:


> ........ The bath I see, the lighting could come from the GFCI protected receptacle. ..........



And where is that stated?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> And where is that stated?


 
NEC 2011 210.11(C)(3) exception


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

backstay said:


> NEC 2011 210.11(C)(3) exception



Where does that require the bath lighting to be on the bath circuit?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Where does that require the bath lighting to be on the bath circuit?


Not required, permitted by the exception.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

backstay said:


> Not required, permitted by the exception.



So why should that affect the requirement for AFCI protection?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> So why should that affect the requirement for AFCI protection?


That, is a good question!


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

It is my opinion the only reason the AFCI manufacturers are not pushing for AFCI protection of the kitchen and bathroom circuits is because they are not sure that their product will work with common kitchen and bathroom appliances. They don't have all of the bugs out and the appliances used in these areas likely produce all sorts of "arc signatures" that are normal but that the AFCI might see as a fault.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> It is my opinion the only reason the AFCI manufacturers are not pushing for AFCI protection of the kitchen and bathroom circuits is because they are not sure that their product will work with common kitchen and bathroom appliances. They don't have all of the bugs out and the appliances used in these areas likely produce all sorts of "arc signatures" that are normal but that the AFCI might see as a fault.


The trouble is, I see the same thing with a vaccum plugged into the hall, LR or bedroom. Then have to tell HO's wife, oh well.


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