# AFCI on a dedicated 20 amp for treadmill



## clementv (May 29, 2013)

Hi folks,
I installed a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a treadmill for my customer and as per NEC regulation it has to be protected using AFCI as it is in his bedroom. AFCI keeps tripping as there is some signature it is detecting in the treadmill motor. How can I stay within the local rules and at the same time get the treadmill to work without tripping? I have read a EMI/RFI filter like TrippLite ISOBAR between the receptacle and the treadmill would work. Does it negate the AFCI's benefit? The treadmill is rated 12 amp, 120 V and I am not sure what the breaker in it is rated. The ISOBAR's have a breaker limit of 12 amp.

Thanks
Clement


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

clementv said:


> Hi folks,
> I installed a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a treadmill for my customer and as per NEC regulation it has to be protected using AFCI as it is in his bedroom. AFCI keeps tripping as there is some signature it is detecting in the treadmill motor. How can I stay within the local rules and at the same time get the treadmill to work without tripping?


Unfortunately I do not think there is a code compliant solution. For some reason treadmills seem to have an issue with AFCIs. 



> I have read a EMI/RFI filter like TrippLite ISOBAR between the receptacle and the treadmill would work. Does it negate the AFCI's benefit? The treadmill is rated 12 amp, 120 V and I am not sure what the breaker in it is rated. The ISOBAR's have a breaker limit of 12 amp.


If it keeps it from tripping I would use it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Some treadmills just will not seem to work properly with an afci breaker. Run an extension cord to the bathroom outlet..


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

If you believe that the treadmill is causing the AFCI breaker to falsely trip then make a report HERE.

This is a link to AFCIsafety.org. This site is run by NEMA in conjunction with the major breaker manufactures. They are working to solve any false tripping issues with AFCI breakers.

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

If you fill out the report the manufactures may already have a solution to the situation.

FWIW the manufactures need to know what issues there are in the field so they can adjust the algorithms used in the AFCI circuits to help solve the unwanted tripping issues.

You may also check with the breaker manufacture to see if you are using the most current AFCI breaker. They are always updating the algorithms in the circuit breakers to compensate for RF issues.

Chris


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

If AFCIs are not enforced by your AHJ, remove the AFCI. Its a sad truth but certain electronics and AFCIs don't play together nicely.


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## clementv (May 29, 2013)

meadow said:


> If AFCIs are not enforced by your AHJ, remove the AFCI. Its a sad truth but certain electronics and AFCIs don't play together nicely.


Unfortunately NC laws require AFCI to be installed on new circuits. This is crazy, the treadmill dealer's local electrician says AFCI and GFCI doesn't work with treadmills and is suggesting we replace them with standard breaker.


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

raider1 said:


> If you believe that the treadmill is causing the AFCI breaker to falsely trip then make a report HERE.
> 
> This is a link to AFCIsafety.org. This site is run by NEMA in conjunction with the major breaker manufactures. They are working to solve any false tripping issues with AFCI breakers.
> 
> Chris


I love that...

Instead of the manufacturers spending their own money to make sure that their product work, they spent the money on lobbying to get the product required by code. And now they are expecting everyone else to find the problems that they didn't care about and help them fix it. 

Great.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Make it a dedicated receptacle and put it on a 30 for the hard starting load.


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## Stickboy1375 (Jul 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Make it a dedicated receptacle and put it on a 30 for the hard starting load.


That would require a 30 amp receptacle.... :whistling2:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Stickboy1375 said:


> That would require a 30 amp receptacle.... :whistling2:


And they make a 30 amp plug and outlet:thumbsup:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

You will void the warranty if you change the plug. How about changing it to a regular breaker and hope for the best.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Elephante said:


> You will void the warranty if you change the plug. How about changing it to a regular breaker and hope for the best.


urban myth


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Elephante said:


> You will void the warranty if you change the plug. How about changing it to a regular breaker and hope for the best.


You are worried about voiding a warranty but not worried about violating the code. :laughing:


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

BBQ said:


> You are worried about voiding a warranty but not worried about violating the code. :laughing:


The code is silly.

Not being able to have the treadmill repaired under warranty is a valid concern.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> You are worried about voiding a warranty but not worried about violating the code. :laughing:


Yea I am.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

ElectroMag said:


> The code is silly.
> 
> Not being able to have the treadmill repaired under warranty is a valid concern.


Hax, is that you. Good to have you back.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ElectroMag said:


> The code is silly.
> 
> Not being able to have the treadmill repaired under warranty is a valid concern.


 I actually agree with this. :blink:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

clementv said:


> Hi folks,
> I installed a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a treadmill for my customer and as per NEC regulation it has to be protected using AFCI as it is in his bedroom. AFCI keeps tripping as there is some signature it is detecting in the treadmill motor. How can I stay within the local rules and at the same time get the treadmill to work without tripping? I have read a EMI/RFI filter like TrippLite ISOBAR between the receptacle and the treadmill would work. Does it negate the AFCI's benefit? The treadmill is rated 12 amp, 120 V and I am not sure what the breaker in it is rated. The ISOBAR's have a breaker limit of 12 amp.
> 
> Thanks
> Clement


We've had this issue in the past. According to an engineer with CH, he recommends a good quality surge suppressor. We tried it a few times and it has prevented nuisance tripping of an AFCI circuit breaker. Try that.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ElectroMag said:


> The code is silly.




Getting into crap with my states licensing board for a customers treadmill is silly.:laughing:



> Not being able to have the treadmill repaired under warranty is a valid concern.


Changing the plug on it is a code violation so I would not do that either, the warranty will remain

Thank you for giving me another opportunity to set you straight. You are very kind.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

ElectroMag said:


> The code is silly.
> 
> Not being able to have the treadmill repaired under warranty is a valid concern.


 

Yeah but, this isnt Treadmilltalk.com


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Ill run a dedicated circuit with a single receptacle with a regular breaker and not lose sleep. Keep my customer happy and safe.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Elephante said:


> Ill run a dedicated circuit with a single receptacle with a regular breaker and not lose sleep. Keep my customer happy and safe.


Until they decide to move the treadmill and plug into a different receptacle. What do you then?


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Getting into crap with my states licensing board for a customers treadmill is silly.:laughing:


 You never cease to amaze me :thumbup:


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Until they decide to move the treadmill to a different receptacle. What do you then?


Nothing, because they paid with cash, of course.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Until they decide to move the treadmill to a different receptacle. What do you then?


Run another dedicated circuit and get paid and Install an arc fault on the first one I ran.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Elephante said:


> Run another dedicated circuit and get paid and Install an arc fault on the first one I ran.


Sounds like your running a Ponzi scheme.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ElectroMag said:


> You never cease to amaze me :thumbup:


Thanks, I usually only hear that when I drop my pants. :laughing:


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## zapped_electric (May 24, 2013)

Hi folks,
I installed a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a treadmill for my customer and as per NEC regulation it has to be protected using AFCI as it is in his bedroom. AFCI keeps tripping as there is some signature it is detecting in the treadmill motor. How can I stay within the local rules and at the same time get the treadmill to work without tripping? I have read a EMI/RFI filter like TrippLite ISOBAR between the receptacle and the treadmill would work. Does it negate the AFCI's benefit? The treadmill is rated 12 amp, 120 V and I am not sure what the breaker in it is rated. The ISOBAR's have a breaker limit of 12 amp.

Thanks
Clement 


Not familiar with NEC, but could you replace the cord end on the treadmill with a twist lock & change your recptacle to match?? That way nothing else could be plugged in & you could replace AFI breaker with a regular one.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

zapped_electric said:


> Not familiar with NEC, but could you replace the cord end on the treadmill with a twist lock & change your recptacle to match?? That way nothing else could be plugged in & you could replace AFI breaker with a regular one.


There is no exception for twist lock receptacles. 

So yes you could do that but it would still be an NEC violation.


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

Just run it at 240V, the customer probably needs to drop a few pounds so the higher speed will help.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Put it on a 30 a breaker and twist lock it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Elephante said:


> Put it on a 30 a breaker and twist lock it.


If you are going to do that just leave the AFCI out in the first place.

Either option is a code violation.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> If you are going to do that just leave the AFCI out in the first place.
> 
> Either option is a code violation.


How is a 30a breaker a violation, because of the treadmill specs?


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## zapped_electric (May 24, 2013)

BBQ said:


> There is no exception for twist lock receptacles.
> 
> So yes you could do that but it would still be an NEC violation.


Ya, I wasn't sure for you guys. The AHJ here allowed me to put reg circuit in a bedroom for a vanity type make up counter. Receptacles were under the counter so he was OK with that.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Just put a standard 20 amp breaker on it. Tell me, did the NEC violate your business by mandating an experimental breaker to code , now violate them .done.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Just put a standard 20 amp breaker on it. Tell me, did the NEC violate your business by mandating an experimental breaker to code , now violate them .done.


People are too scared.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Elephante said:


> People are too scared.


I guess the gov has completed in scaring everyone into conformity.:laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I guess the gov has completed in scaring everyone into conformity.:laughing:


Or into professionalism


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Or into professionalism


I highly doubt that. Lol


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Do any of you dingbats own a codebook? :laughing: 

I go through this same crap with treadmills and gfi's in basements. Here's your receptacle, installed legally as required by code, here's the paperwork that came with the treadmill which has the manufacturers contact info on it. Good luck.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Do any of you dingbats own a codebook? :laughing:



Why are you so negative?:laughing:


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## ElectroMag (May 29, 2013)

electricmanscott said:


> Do any of you dingbats own a codebook? :laughing:


No, I pirate the PDF.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

What's a code book?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Elephante said:


> How is a 30a breaker a violation, because of the treadmill specs?


It would be an NEC violation to supply a 15 or 20 amp receptacle with a 30

It would be a NEC violation to change the cord cap on the machine to a 30


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Elephante said:


> Put it on a 30 a breaker and twist lock it.


Then he would have to replace the wire as I'm sure he didn't pull 10awg to it for ***** and giggles.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Is dumb and dumber electric doing this job? Seems like the true hacks are posting on this thread.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

freeagnt54 said:


> Then he would have to replace the wire as I'm sure he didn't pull 10awg to it for ***** and giggles.


is it not a motor load?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah that's typical manufacture logic, our product sucks ass so know it's on you to break the rules to put a bandaid on the problem.


BTW though, larger EMI/RFI filters are available.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It would be an NEC violation to supply a 15 or 20 amp receptacle with a 30
> 
> It would be a NEC violation to change the cord cap on the machine to a 30


So I guess the best option is to put a standard breaker. I'm happy we agree on something.lol


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> is it not a motor load?


It is but an appliance first so if the instructions say a 15 or 20 amp circuit that is what you need to do.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Why are you so negative?:laughing:


I put a :laughing: in there. That makes me Mr Chipper :thumbup:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

How about we get a waiver from the inspector allowing us to use a standard breaker.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I put a :laughing: in there. That makes me Mrs. Debbie Downer. :thumbup:


Fify....:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Elephante said:


> How about we get a waiver from the inspector allowing us to use a standard breaker.


Go for it.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Go for it.


Connect four!!!


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

You sank my battle ship! :boat:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> You sank my battle ship! :boat:


I am mr bucket , bucket of fun.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Try a regular breaker with an AFCI receptacle. Just swapped out a homeline AFCI breaker for standard breaker and AFCI receptacle in a customer's house. Their kid's c-pap breathing machine was tripping AFCI breaker overnight. Yup that's a problem, kid can't breathe without it. Inspector allowed me to find first outlet in circuit, make it a regular TR, and put the AFCI outlet in the next one downstream. After you try a couple options, any reasonable inspector will grant a waiver.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

From what I've read for the most part, some of this is hogwash.

Some mentioned a surge suppressor. Take a scope on the input side of a SS. The MOV's and banks will still have let through, I am not calling your bluff, but I would like to see where a SS/TVS would omit the cause of the sig to trip an AFCI on an appliance load.

I got a $20 bill to diffuse your theory......


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

76nemo said:


> From what I've read for the most part, some of this is hogwash.
> 
> Some mentioned a surge suppressor. Take a scope on the input side of a SS. The MOV's and banks will still have let through, I am not calling your bluff, but I would like to see where a SS/TVS would omit the cause of the sig to trip an AFCI on an appliance load.
> 
> I got a $20 bill to diffuse your theory......


Have you every tried a ss/tvss on a treadmill? I have on several occasions and it has helped prevent nuisance tripping.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Chris1971 said:


> Have you every tried a ss/tvss on a treadmill? I have on several occasions and it has helped prevent nuisance tripping.


 
Okay, and just how did it help Chris? What type of exact breaker are we speaking of?

So, I ask, it helped prevent it or STOPPED it?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

To answer your question, in which I clearly did not...... No I have not had any interaction with one,....never.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

If indeed it does, the AFCI portion clearly has a quite higher response time. It's instantaneous response must be way out of line..........or is this in running sequence?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Okay, and just how did it help Chris? What type of exact breaker are we speaking of?
> 
> So, I ask, it helped prevent it or STOPPED it?


The breaker in question is a single pole 15 amp cutler hammer brown handle combination arc fault breaker. With out ss/tvss the treadmill would only run 20-30 seconds before tripping arc fault breaker. We plugged the treadmill into a ss/tvss and the nuisance tripping of the afci stopped. That's been 2 years without an issue of the afci tripping.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Ever looked into the TVS you chose? Is there snubber circuitry?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

The reason I ask, is just considering just how old the treadmill was.......


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Ever looked into the TVS you chose? Is there snubber circuitry?


I will see if I can find the model # of the ss/tvss.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Look into the treadmill first......


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

There isn't a let go or latch that I can see that would allow an TVS to operate without tripping that a stand alone appliance would not.....


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

.......but I am normally wrong..........


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

I have yet to see a PWM controlled appliance an AFCI couldn't handle.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

ElectroMag said:


> Just run it at 240V, the customer probably needs to drop a few pounds so the higher speed will help.


And while you are at that, tie in the microwave!!


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

How about running 240 and dropping g it down with little baby transformer next to the treadmill.it will save you a ton of money.


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## 650sparky (Nov 25, 2020)

sbrn33 said:


> Make it a dedicated receptacle and put it on a 30 for the hard starting load.


Yup. Upsize your copd for the inrush current.


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## AnilR (May 27, 2021)

Any reason the ISOBAR noise filtering didn't get more traction on this thread?

I'm not an electrician, but just started using an ISOBAR exactly for this scenario. My 1 year old Lifespan treadmill recently started tripping an AFCI circuit breaker. If I unplugged a few low power devices on the same circuit (e.g. a 5 watt Alexa or sometimes a computer monitor that was turned off) the treadmill would power on just fine. 

Perhaps I'm missing something fundamental, but my understanding is that the isobar would not affect the AFCI's ability to work on the reset of the circuit, and I'd expect the AFCI would still detect an arc on the treadmill since that's likely beyond basic "noise" suppression offered by the isobar.


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