# 250.64 (d)(1)



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

We use the 2008 NEC.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

It says ' tap shall be installed'. I think he has you.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

A split bolt? I can't use them on the GEC. I always use the buss or a listed crimp.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> A split bolt? I can't use them on the GEC. I always use the buss or a listed crimp.


Of course you can, look at the code section he quoted.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The POCO made me do the same thing with a (2) meter service.. they like split bolt connections.. 

They also want permanent stairs in for their inspection.. no climbing ladders..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

POCO here dosen't follow NEC. My EIs won't allow a split bolt to tap on the GEC. I had to go back and replace one with a crimp style connector.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> It says ' tap shall be installed'. I think he has you.


That's the way I see it too. Code is code, I know it. But you would think a bus connection is a bit more reliable than a split bolt. 

Just saying.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

backstay said:


> A split bolt? I can't use them on the GEC. I always use the buss or a listed crimp.


What do you mean you can't use them? 

Are you the 08 NEC?

It's a new requirement or new wording because in the 08 the wording is shaded.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> That's the way I see it too. Code is code, I know it. But you would think a bus connection is a bit more reliable than a split bolt.



I cannot think of any safety issue with your install, just a code issue.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> The POCO made me do the same thing with a (2) meter service.. they like split bolt connections..
> 
> They also want permanent stairs in for their inspection.. no climbing ladders..


Stairs? 

Lazy bastards.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> What do you mean you can't use them?
> 
> Are you the 08 NEC?
> 
> It's a new requirement or new wording because in the 08 the wording is shaded.


08 until July 1, The inspectors(I deal with 5) will not allow a split bolt on the GEC.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> 150 amp service, 2 panels, #6 copper grounding electrode conductor. The EI is requiring me to use a split-bolt connector to "tap" the GEC to both panels. I used the ground bus in the panel to do this.
> 
> He sees a violation. Do you?


Is the split-bolt "listed as grounding and bonding equipment"? If not, you are both in violation.



The tap conductors shall be connected to the common grounding electrode conductor by exothermic welding or with* connectors listed as grounding and bonding equipment* in such a manner that the common grounding electrode conductor remains without a splice or joint.​


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electures said:


> Is the split-bolt "listed as grounding and bonding equipment"? If not, you are both in violation.
> 
> 
> 
> The tap conductors shall be connected to the common grounding electrode conductor by exothermic welding or with* connectors listed as grounding and bonding equipment* in such a manner that the common grounding electrode conductor remains without a splice or joint.​


Is there a split bolt that is not listed for grounding?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> 08 until July 1, The inspectors(I deal with 5) will not allow a split bolt on the GEC.


Ask them for the written requirement.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Is there a split bolt that is not listed for grounding?


Only listing difference I've seen is for solid or stranded, or direct burial.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Is there a split bolt that is not listed for grounding?


Listed "as".

*GROUNDING AND BONDING
EQUIPMENT (KDER)​USE​*This category covers bonding devices, ground clamps, grounding and
bonding bushings and locknuts, ground rods, armored grounding wire, protector
grounding wire, grounding wedges, ground clips for securing the
ground wire to an outlet box, water meter shunts, and *similar equipment*.
Some devices are to be assembled to wire using a special tool specified by
the manufacturer. Such special tooling is identified by appropriate marking​on or within the device shipping carton.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

In 2011 NEC you will no longer be allowed to use splitbolts. They list the types of connections allowed


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electures said:


> Listed "as".
> 
> *GROUNDING AND BONDING
> EQUIPMENT (KDER)​USE​*This category covers bonding devices, ground clamps, grounding and
> ...


I understand that.

I think you will find all 'copper' split bolts are in fact listed for grounding.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

manchestersparky said:


> In 2011 NEC you will no longer be allowed to use splitbolts. They list the types of connections allowed


Under 2011, 250.64(D)(1)(2) you could use split bolts if listed for grounding.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Is there a split bolt that is not listed for grounding?


Bob I like when you play Devil's advocate. I've learned so much from your posts over the years. Thank you.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

BBQ said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I think you will find all 'copper' split bolts are in fact listed for grounding.


This Ilsco split-bolt is UL 467 certified as grounding eguipment. I am sure others are as well.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

BBQ said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I think you will find all 'copper' split bolts are in fact listed for grounding.


Agreed. But they also shall be *listed as grounding and bonding equipment* to comly with 250.64(d)(1). Which means it has to be UL 467 certified also.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't feel like researching but I've seen another EC get popped on that one. Pretty much you need to be able to remove one panel and not break the GEC. You should be able to run the #6 continuous into one panel and then split bolt on a GEC from the other panel. If it's getting rock toss a mud ring over the split bolt.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> 150 amp service, 2 panels, #6 copper grounding electrode conductor. The EI is requiring me to use a split-bolt connector to "tap" the GEC to both panels. I used the ground bus in the panel to do this.
> 
> He sees a violation. Do you?


To me, it would be a tough call. Doing it as you wanted would work but doing it the way he says would be a little better in the respect that one panel's Ground would not be dependent on another's grounding means.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> To me, it would be a tough call. Doing it as you wanted would work but doing it the way he says would be a little better in the respect that one panel's Ground would not be dependent on another's grounding means.


Which oddly enough is most likely the codes intent. 

the question is, who's going to be changing the panel now that the upgrade was done?!!!?


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