# Beginner electrical troubleshooting game, what do you think?



## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

It's sometimes hard to understand what you're asking, as there's a lot of information in that little right side box together.

the popups for the lock out tag out in the browser are pretty frustrating, I'd recommend putting some kid of bar with tips & requirements at the bottom instead, and that it doesn't allow you to continue without doing those requirements. 

I'd also put the probes sideways instead of vertically, they make the game hard to use when you're trying to measure the fuse for example. I don't know if it's just my browser but when I try to put the probe on the bottom screws of the relay, my browser scrolls down into emptiness.

other than that, super cool!


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I died replacing a light bulb...

Cheers
John


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

I wanted to die after 2 seconds.

Needs to be more user friendly

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Wow I'd like to know who your power company is. They nailed that 120.00V!

On a serious note, I stumbled a bit getting the DMM to work.
Can't read the blue text on black background.

Looks like lots of fun. Great work. I'm sure it's going to be a real nice for people learning when you get it refined.


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## Bleddyn (Aug 29, 2018)

I really like the concept of a simulator like this.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> I died replacing a light bulb...
> 
> Cheers
> John


Dontcha just hate when that happens?


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

*Electrical simulator user interface*



Martine said:


> It's sometimes hard to understand what you're asking, as there's a lot of information in that little right side box together.
> 
> the popups for the lock out tag out in the browser are pretty frustrating, I'd recommend putting some kid of bar with tips & requirements at the bottom instead, and that it doesn't allow you to continue without doing those requirements.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the excellent feedback Martine, just the kind i was looking for. Although knowing what browser you where using would be helpful too. I totally understand the instructions on the right are too compact. (we had to shorten so they would fit in box on right.) In V4.0 we'll put scroll and zoom features so the wording can be longer and more explanatory. (We rely a lot on user instructions popping up on hover to supplement lack of instructions on right. For those who do not click on the "Help" button and read the details on how to use.)

Great idea for the bottom info bar too, when you right click on a part to be replaced, if not locked out, its suppose to have "lockout Tagout 1st" in red text diagonally to let user know that. Not sure if it worked as intended on your browser.









As for the leads being horizontal instead of vertical, another great idea. (As a user option anyway.) You first idea of having alert/info section at bottom of screen will actually fix the browser trying to scrollbar when you drag leads to bottom with the extra screen space at bottom that will had the additional info you recommended. In chrome,IE and big screen TV we where able to allow screen to scroll, and just drag lead back up to relay, but I too experienced a little frustration hitting the target early on.

The LOTO procedures on left should have gave additional tips for each one when you hover cursor over it. Plus if you miss/skip it should put a red glow around what you should do first to help user know. That was how it was when i first check, but today i see those extra on hover info is not popping up like it used to, must have been a last minute change we'll have to put back.

We are going to make some help videos too, and that will help user understand the interface better. (may require a short little introduction video be watched before using, in case user skips help file.) Then we can additionally address issue learned in user feedback.

So again, thank you so much for the feedback, very useful. Have a great weekend.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

*Electrical simulator user interface*



Navyguy said:


> I died replacing a light bulb...
> 
> Cheers
> John


Yep, go to lock out-tag out first. :surprise:


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

*Electrical simulator user interface*



MikeFL said:


> Wow I'd like to know who your power company is. They nailed that 120.00V!
> 
> On a serious note, I stumbled a bit getting the DMM to work.
> Can't read the blue text on black background.
> ...


Hey Mike, I would really appreciate if you could reply with screen shot and type of device and browser you used to view. (As only text color on black background should be neon green like old dos computers, used in the terminal on the right. Also neon green on meter 120v.) We used that color/layout as a novelty to look like old system terminals. Looks like in next version we should go with white background, black or blue text and quit playing around, ha ha. But since you mentioned it, it is now a serious consideration. 

Thanks


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Took me 4 hours to LOTO. Seems legit.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

bin95 said:


> Hey Mike, I would really appreciate if you could reply with screen shot and type of device and browser you used to view. (As only text color on black background should be neon green like old dos computers, used in the terminal on the right. Also neon green on meter 120v.) We used that color/layout as a novelty to look like old system terminals. Looks like in next version we should go with white background, black or blue text and quit playing around, ha ha. But since you mentioned it, it is now a serious consideration.
> 
> Thanks


PC

Desktop

Chrome

Isn't that blue text on black background?


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

To be honest, I wouldn't use this, especially considering more developed apps are available from Simutech and I've gotten bored of those because I have to open them on my computer and they're still pretty clunky. However, make this in a phone app and make the interface more streamlined, you could probably take off because Android and iPhone app store are where the vast majority are going to go look for something like this.

There are probably a few electrical puzzles games out right now, but nothing "professional" and 100% legit... I don't play games on my phone, but a legit troubleshooting "game" is something I'd definitely pay for. Maybe, free to download, in-app purchases for more advanced scenarios... not even because I need it, but because I'd really enjoy a troubleshooting puzzle when I want to burn time on my phone.

To make the app more accessible to the general market, you'd have to go the extra mile with the introduction scenarios, to show voltage drop and current continuity through the circuit, then carefully build up from there to relate these ideas to identifying faults. I think these are skills that a lot of people would be interested in developing, but there's just nothing that strikes the right balance between being accessible to beginners and legit, professional level challenges.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Its just the start, with great user feedback others here and elsewhere have given, it should get much more user friendly in the future.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks, the screen shot was very helpful. Yes it is blue on black. If you look at pictures of screen shot at https://koldwater.com/Online-Electrical-Troubleshooting/Simulator-Help.html (or click help button in simulator), you will see system terminal is not displaying properly on your browser. So that is why you see blue text in black area instead of grey are where it belongs. Do you have browser window maximized, works best that way? (all though it should automatically adjust to any screen size. So that leads me to as.. Do you have javascript disabled in your browser? It needs javascipt to detect your screen size and adjust layout.

It should look like


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

bin95 said:


> Wow, thanks for the excellent feedback Martine, just the kind i was looking for. Although knowing what browser you where using would be helpful too. I totally understand the instructions on the right are too compact. (we had to shorten so they would fit in box on right.) In V4.0 we'll put scroll and zoom features so the wording can be longer and more explanatory. (We rely a lot on user instructions popping up on hover to supplement lack of instructions on right. For those who do not click on the "Help" button and read the details on how to use.)
> 
> Great idea for the bottom info bar too, when you right click on a part to be replaced, if not locked out, its suppose to have "lockout Tagout 1st" in red text diagonally to let user know that. Not sure if it worked as intended on your browser.
> 
> ...


I'm using chrome on a macbook! 

and no problem, I think the little intro video would be a good idea. Also the LOTO repeatedly is quite bothersome, maybe clicking each step the first time and every other time after that just clicking on the actual LOTO icon instead. 

Learning how to use my multimeter and understanding where I should have 120 (or whatever voltage) and where I shouldn't, and when it's normal to read 120 or 0 was the hardest thing for me to picture in school, so I think you're on to something with that!


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Martine said:


> It's sometimes hard to understand what you're asking, as there's a lot of information in that little right side box together.
> 
> the popups for the lock out tag out in the browser are pretty frustrating, I'd recommend putting some kid of bar with tips & requirements at the bottom instead, and that it doesn't allow you to continue without doing those requirements.
> 
> ...



I'd put the probes at a 45* angle.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. Yes Simutech is seasoned software and awesome (we sold it since 1995), but they quit selling to individuals. We will consider iphone and droid apps, but we wanted to cost down for end user and make it more scaleable. being browser based you can use it on any smart phone, and only one software to update. With that approach we would have develop, maintain and improve 3 different versions. (6 times the life-cycle cost) When where talking about the full certificate course built on top the free simulator, that would be a lot of money.  

But you approach you mentioned is a good one. At first browser based only to speed development time. Once free version is polished, implementing feed back like the great feedback i received here at ElectricianTalk, then make iphone app etc. like you mentioned. For free version only though. 

Probably droid version first, as it is open development, more freedom. We did an iphone app before, expensive, annual fees by apple, but there restrictions where the biggest barrier we found. Because they don't know our industry, they didn't like links to our website for additional free valuable information because they didn't understand what great value that industrial info was to users. Besides being a Lean and Green company so we can provide the best for less to customers, we also avoid be 3rd party dependent.

For example when amazon accidentally turned off their cloud , a lot of company dependent on that 3rd party platform lost a lot. In the help file, you will learn our paid certificate course will have voltage drop, current, resistance even an oscope. This is just the beta free version. hopefully you are just seeing a start be born, wich later will be a planet. ha ha ... hopefully.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Maybe a compromise, loto reduced to one click after user reaches skilltest mode. Safety is so important, we wanted to use repetition to insure those new to it, remember the steps. 

We knew, as in real life, people would take having to LOTO, like medicine they hate. We thought only having to fill out the tag once would alleviate some that distaste for required procedures. But guess not.  When you do get to the bonus mode, some of the LOTO steps are not required (pushing on/off buttons). I like you idea better, after 5 explorer steps (2 of which require loto), then make one click loto.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

MikeFL said:


> PC
> 
> Desktop
> 
> ...


That is what mine looked like too.
I tried both IE and Chrome.

Cheers
John


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

The formatting on the LOTO was a bit off for me too...

Cheers
John


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

It’s like working without getting paid for it.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. Just wanted to let you all know we have made updates based on the comments (you may need to refresh your browser to see the latest) ...

* Meter leads now pointing down instead of up so browser doesn't auto-scroll while test relay contacts at bottom of screen.

* Expanded the on-hover help for loto from only showing if you hover over check box, to show also if you hover over check box title too. (Note the the hover help is no help for those using smart phones, but using smart phone to learn instead of PC is always going to limit you on what you can learn.  )

* Also we fixed screen size on loto steps for those viewing smaller than the preferred full screen PC.

* Now only a one click lockout (auto tag out) after explorer mode mode.

* Now uses voltages you see in real world rather than textbook 120v (plus you can measure voltage drop between ground and neutral).

Other items will be addressed in paid certificate course version, when the online version of course is released. 

Also of note, the current full electrical troubleshooting certification course version you install on Win PC, only uses a 2 step (click) loto.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hey Martin, just wanted to let you know your recommendation was implemented. There is now a littler quick start help video that pops up when you first use the simulator of hit refresh. You can also see that video at


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

I can't get past step 5 in explorer mode. I don't see any drop down menu for tightening screws or replacing the relay. I tried right click, double click, and hold for 3 seconds, none of those work.
Windows 7
Mozilla Firefox


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

The game would cost less to run if you used LED lamps.

As an update, I finished it. I think it was rather intuitive at this time. I had some bugs with the Right CFL wanting to stay on when it shouldn't. Almost as if it is missing a reset / off as it switches to the next fault in the sequence.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

UPDATE: Thank you everyone for all the great feedback. I believe this new version (*Free Industrial Electrical Troubleshooting Game Simulator* on our main company website has all the recommendations you all made, applied. We made LOTO details only required once, just click after that for lock and unlock. We changed blue/green text on a black background to black text on yellow background, etc. The only advice I have seen not taken yet is the meter leads are still vertical. Later we will make the meter lead direction optional so user can choose their preference.

Thanks again everyone for the much-appreciated feedback. I hope you like and share the simulation game with others to inspire us to do even more.

Have a great week.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

A guy named Ron Beaufort that used to teach PLC troubleshooting rigged IO cards with dip switches. Seems crazy but stuff like that really happens. It’s a pain to find a defective input card when the LEDs are working but the input isn’t. Real world troubleshooting is easy 95% of the time. It’s the 5% that really gets you. You can troubleshoot anything though if you use the right methods.


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## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

paulengr said:


> It’s a pain to find a defective input card when the LEDs are working but the input isn’t.


Yes, we used them PLC input switches too at one point over a decade ago, just like Ron. But we found simulators to be more cost-effective and work with distance learning too. 

As for bad I/O, easy peasy, if there is a voltage on a certain input address, yet online with PLC, PLC indicates no voltage, you have bad input. It typically takes 3 minutes to get online with PLC, so the problem found in about 4 minutes. In fact, the way we teach to troubleshoot PLCs, it takes only about 5 minutes to troubleshoot any problem using the PLC to troubleshoot, no matter how complex the machinery or systems. But there are exceptions to every rule.


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