# Home Rewire Questions



## User10607 (Jan 11, 2010)

Well I am going to be buying my first house soon and the house we are looking at is an old 1907 house with alot of different work done at different times, but anyways..

The existing 100A service is run to a panelboard in the UNFINISHED CRAWL SPACE, and I know I do not want to have a panelboard in that moist environment, so I would eventually like to put a new one above grade and have a few questions.

Ideally I would like to go through the house and replace everything and run it all to the new panelboard. We will be living in the house when I do this so we cannot be without power.

What should I do, replace all the wiring, receptacles and all other equipment, run it to the old panelboard, then rerun the wiring to the new panelboard once I am ready to switch the service. 

OR Run a new 200A service to the new panelboard and slowly feed all of the branch circuits then just remove all the 100A service when all the loads are on the new panelboard.

OR if you have any ideas....it would be much appreciated. I'll post some pics once I have some.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What is an "Electrical Designer" ??


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

yeah I saw this and it seems a no brainer for an EC/sparkie....are you an electrician? I don't mean to be rude but........


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I think you should tear the house down and start from scratch.
(JMO)


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

When an electrician see's your question, what's 2+2, we know some one who can't add, will not be able to do even an easy algebra problem. Everyday we see overconfident homeowner and electrical designers who are just plain reckless and dangerous........

But I say burn the house down, salvage the copper wire, pipe and any nails or screws, ..............and build from scratch, make sure everyone is out though when you start the fire.


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## User10607 (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, thanks for the unhelpful responses I'll be sure to cancel my account on here after I post this.

And also An Electrical Designer is someone who designs the electrical systems that electricians usually screw up, and we have to go evaluate what they screwed up, like when they run a cable into a panel, coil it up and run it back out and burn up a pump because they figured it wouldn't need a breaker.

I see now why we have so many problems when trying to deal with you guys in the field, oh and don't forget to burn your shops down when you want to replace a switch or even a light bulb for that matter, to start from scratch.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

WOW !!! Who got up on the wrong side of the bed ?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Electric Al said:


> WOW !!! Who got up on the wrong side of the bed ?


I don't blame the OP one bit. There was not one bit of helpful info from Bkessler and Wildleg. Come on-- tell the guy to burn down his house. 
I guess you guys never needed any help from anybody and you know it all. How would you all feel if you asked a question and got responses like the ones that you gave.

Whether the OP is an electrician is not is not the point. He asked for help-- if you don't want to help then don't post- leave it for someone who has some respect.

To the OP

Change the service and install the new panel where you want it. Run a temp to the old panel and leave it till you have had time to replace the old wiring and run the new stuff to the new panel.

Service change can be done somewhere between 4 and 8 hours usually so you can still sleep at the house. Sometimes a generator helps while the power is out.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Dennis. That is a good suggestion. :thumbup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

bradbb2005 said:


> Well, thanks for the unhelpful responses I'll be sure to cancel my account on here after I post this.
> 
> And also An Electrical Designer is someone who designs the electrical systems that electricians usually screw up, and we have to go evaluate what they screwed up, like when they run a cable into a panel, coil it up and run it back out and burn up a pump because they figured it wouldn't need a breaker.
> 
> I see now why we have so many problems when trying to deal with you guys in the field, oh and don't forget to burn your shops down when you want to replace a switch or even a light bulb for that matter, to start from scratch.


 
Well electrical ENGINEERS design electrical systems. Never heard of a designer myself and to be honest every set of stamped plans I get have multiple mistakes on them.Some are even NEC violations. No REAL ELECTRICIAN would do the things you described like coil a wire up and not fuse a pump. I'll take a stab at your original question. I would (before you move in) mount a 200a outside panel. Make the panel in the crawl a junction box and run circuits to the new outside service. Any new circuits you pull just pull them outside. A house like you describe really needs to be gutted and everything redone. If you did that you could eliminate the panel in the crawl.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> A house like you describe really needs to be gutted and everything redone. If you did that you could eliminate the panel in the crawl.


The OP wants to live in the house while he does this so gutting the house is not realistic. He can do it piece meal once the new panel is set up.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The OP wants to live in the house while he does this so gutting the house is not realistic. He can do it piece meal once the new panel is set up.


 
Yea I read that. I was just speaking from experience. Get as much done as you can before you move in. It is a big headache living in a house under construction and will cost much more to complete also.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I gutted my house while living in it (no kids tho). I didn't want one piece of old wiring left, and there isn't. Things you find in an old house are scary, and it only takes one bad wiring hack to burn the place down. 1907 ? imagine what kind of crap is buried in the walls. somewhere in that house, someone probably added a receptacle with lamp cord - know what I mean ? I wasn't trying to run the guy off, but like Dennis said, I guess I should have just not posted and hit the DIY button (which I do often, BTW)


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't blame the OP one bit. There was not one bit of helpful info from Bkessler and Wildleg. Come on-- tell the guy to burn down his house.
> I guess you guys never needed any help from anybody and you know it all. How would you all feel if you asked a question and got responses like the ones that you gave.
> 
> Whether the OP is an electrician is not is not the point. He asked for help-- if you don't want to help then don't post- leave it for someone who has some respect.
> ...


OH well, sorry I wasn't helpful. I wasn't trying to be nor would I when someone doesn't know what they are doing. Electrical designer.....wtf. Designing and installing are two different animals. Why jeopardize the guys family from his ignorance. These guys think just because they understand theory the install is easy, well I fix f ups all day long, he's going to do such a sub par job if he ever sells this house the new unsuspecting owner will be screwed. Don't you agree dennis?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

bradbb2005 said:


> Well, thanks for the unhelpful responses I'll be sure to cancel my account on here after I post this.
> 
> And also An Electrical Designer is someone who designs the electrical systems that electricians usually screw up, and we have to go evaluate what they screwed up, like when they run a cable into a panel, coil it up and run it back out and burn up a pump because they figured it wouldn't need a breaker.
> 
> I see now why we have so many problems when trying to deal with you guys in the field, oh and don't forget to burn your shops down when you want to replace a switch or even a light bulb for that matter, to start from scratch.


 
What kind of pump burns up that is not connected to an electrical panel?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> OH well, sorry I wasn't helpful. I wasn't trying to be nor would I when someone doesn't know what they are doing. Electrical designer.....wtf. Designing and installing are two different animals. Why jeopardize the guys family from his ignorance. These guys think just because they understand theory the install is easy, well I fix f ups all day long, he's going to do such a sub par job if he ever sells this house the new unsuspecting owner will be screwed. Don't you agree dennis?


Whether I agree or not is not the point. I try not to disrespect people's rights esp. when they are just asking questions. I have no knowledge of what the OP is up to. He may be an apprentice and looking for guidance. He may have a journeyman who is going to help him-- again, I don't know.

I do know that if I get a bad feeling I just go on to the next thing. I have seen too many innocent individuals get lambasted on this site for simply asking a question that is not up to someone elses standards.

Remember we were all there at one time. We all had to learn. Most places allow even a hHO to work on their house whether we like it or not. I assume an inspection is in order but again that is not my issue. If I don't like it I will not respond and that's it.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I will never for the life of me understand why people buy these old homes and think they will just fix it up and it will be as good as new.../ Tear the house down and build it again.....Your old home will never be as efficeint as a new one. I see it allllllllllllllllllllllll the time. AC installed in a home that has more leaks than a sieve. Plumbing that will cost threee times more to retofit, electrical system that is older than dirt.......Whats the point.....because you love the wood work....


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Whether I agree or not is not the point. I try not to disrespect people's rights esp. when they are just asking questions. I have no knowledge of what the OP is up to. He may be an apprentice and looking for guidance. He may have a journeyman who is going to help him-- again, I don't know.
> 
> I do know that if I get a bad feeling I just go on to the next thing. I have seen too many innocent individuals get lambasted on this site for simply asking a question that is not up to someone elses standards.
> 
> Remember we were all there at one time. We all had to learn. Most places allow even a hHO to work on their house whether we like it or not. I assume an inspection is in order but again that is not my issue. If I don't like it I will not respond and that's it.


 
Yep here if the HO passes a 25 question test he can do his own work.
I also agree respect is something we all should show to everyone. I ask some questions I should know the answer to at times and I can prove I'm a journeyman. I have that cheap card the county sends me everytime I send them the 10.00 renewal fee thats says I'm qualified in electrical.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

bradbb2005 said:


> Well I am going to be buying my first house soon and the house we are looking at is an old 1907 house with alot of different work done at different times, but anyways..
> 
> The existing 100A service is run to a panelboard in the UNFINISHED CRAWL SPACE, and I know I do not want to have a panelboard in that moist environment, so I would eventually like to put a new one above grade and have a few questions.
> 
> ...


To answer your question.. I would install the new service and run a 60 amp feed back to the old panel to keep it fired up.

If your stove is electric, use only the top burners and BBQ when ever possible.

Take one room at a time and run the new wires back to the new panel, then gut the old wiring. 

If your stove is electric, you can use the temp. #6 wire for the stove when all the other circuits are switched over.

What code cycle are they using where you are.. THAT is very important!!!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Whether I agree or not is not the point. I try not to disrespect people's rights esp. when they are just asking questions. I have no knowledge of what the OP is up to. He may be an apprentice and looking for guidance. He may have a journeyman who is going to help him-- again, I don't know.
> 
> I do know that if I get a bad feeling I just go on to the next thing. I have seen too many innocent individuals get lambasted on this site for simply asking a question that is not up to someone elses standards.
> 
> Remember we were all there at one time. We all had to learn. Most places allow even a hHO to work on their house whether we like it or not. I assume an inspection is in order but again that is not my issue. If I don't like it I will not respond and that's it.




Here you can do your own wiring, but must use a Licensed Plumber. :no:

When I hear of a HO drowning in his bedroom, I will agree with that logic.


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## geo5509 (Mar 9, 2010)

bradbb2005 said:


> And also An Electrical Designer is someone who designs the electrical systems that electricians usually screw up, and we have to go evaluate what they screwed upquote]
> 
> I agree with you Dennis. Alot of the members on here are quick to judge new members as HO's,Hacks or Trolls. With All do Respect if the Op designs and then fix's *what we screw up,* then why is he on here asking a bunch of idiots how to do it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

geo5509 said:


> ......if the Op designs and then fix's *what we screw up,* then why is he on here asking a bunch of idiots how to do it.



I doubt it. I have a hard time imagining a Designer with a toolbelt.


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## geo5509 (Mar 9, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I doubt it. I have a hard time imagining a Designer with a toolbelt.


Agreed indeed!


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Once again,Dennis Alwon,as the "voice of reason" here,is correct.I have occasionally made a rash response in an attempt to be humorous.At best it comes out wrong-sounding,but at worst it is rude,and really uncalled for,especially toward someone making a good faith effort to learn something.

There are some who appear to believe the old(incorrect) adage that "It's not how good I look,it's how bad I make You look." In fact ,some are like Dr.Jeckyll/Mr.Hyde,maintaining a civil tone over on the MH site,then turning into a junkyard dog when coming over here.Why?It's inappropriate,not to mention unproductive.

Sorry,for the Sunday morning sermon.I know as construction workers,we should all try to have thick skin,but common respect is important.The bottom line is that if we want to be looked upon as professionals,we should start acting the part.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

being professional is relative, for me it shows up in my work and in my service to my customers. I am always happy to help, just not to help someone burn down their house. I just don't think everything needs to be sugarcoated as not to hurt feelings, if the OP was a contractor or even was around the stuff long enough he'd be able to take a few jabs without getting his panties all bunched up.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> being professional is relative, for me it shows up in my work and in my service to my customers. I am always happy to help, just not to help someone burn down their house. I just don't think everything needs to be sugarcoated as not to hurt feelings, if the OP was a contractor or even was around the stuff long enough he'd be able to take a few jabs without getting his panties all bunched up.


 
Maybe he wears thongs and it is not that they bunched up but they were riding... well you know.....:laughing::laughing:
But to be honest, being mean to BFT or buzz is one thing, but to people we dont know we should at least at like the nice guys we can be when we want to be.....:thumbup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Yep here if the HO passes a 25 question test he can do his own work.
> I also agree respect is something we all should show to everyone. I ask some questions I should know the answer to at times and I can prove I'm a journeyman. I have that cheap card the county sends me everytime I send them the 10.00 renewal fee thats says I'm qualified in electrical.


 The home owners test is harder than the journeyman's test just so that the HO has a hard time passing it. It is intended to be harder so to encourage the HO to hire a licensed electrician. I haven't renewed my Journeyman's card in about 5 years. I wonder if they would let me renew it and just pay them $50 and be up to date?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> The home owners test is harder than the journeyman's test just so that the HO has a hard time passing it. It is intended to be harder so to encourage the HO to hire a licensed electrician. I haven't renewed my Journeyman's card in about 5 years. I wonder if they would let me renew it and just pay them $50 and be up to date?


 

Dont you have an unlimited state license? I thought all ********** had to have one to do what you used to do for the county. I would say noooooooooooooo, you have to take it again!!!!They need the money to bad!


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

bradbb2005 said:


> Well, thanks for the unhelpful responses I'll be sure to cancel my account on here after I post this.
> 
> And also An Electrical Designer is someone who designs the electrical systems that electricians usually screw up, and we have to go evaluate what they screwed up, like when they run a cable into a panel, coil it up and run it back out and burn up a pump because they figured it wouldn't need a breaker.
> 
> I see now why we have so many problems when trying to deal with you guys in the field, oh and don't forget to burn your shops down when you want to replace a switch or even a light bulb for that matter, to start from scratch.


 
Is this guy for real?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I think this is done.


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