# Knob and Tube



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cam said:


> Hey everyone, I was wondering can I splice romex into knob and tube to extend the circuit? What are acceptable splicing methods for this? Do I need a Jbox? Thanks


Have you read article 394 in the NEC. That may be helpful.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here are some other helpful articles

250.86
300.15
300.16
314.3
314.17 (B)& (C)


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I would not for a couple of reasons. How would you pick up the egc?


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Cam said:


> Hey everyone, I was wondering can I splice romex into knob and tube to extend the circuit? What are acceptable splicing methods for this? Do I need a Jbox? Thanks



Dear Homeowner,

Please contact an electrician to determine proper course of action.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> Dear Homeowner,
> 
> Please contact an electrician to determine proper course of action.


The OP's profile shows he is an electrician. There are many ec's that have no idea about K&T. Not sure why the negative post.


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## Mike Guile (Jan 14, 2010)

*K n T*

If you do that you will be sued for all you have if there is a fire at all in the house.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The OP's profile shows he is an electrician. There are many ec's that have no idea about K&T. Not sure why the negative post.



He is an electrician that doesn't know how to use a code book, that believes you *may* be able to splice line voltage w/out a junction box, that must rely on the internet for guidance in his own line of profession - which could mean the difference between life or death...

yea..... bothers me that licensed does not mean qualified.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> He is an electrician that doesn't know how to use a code book, that believes you *may* be able to splice line voltage w/out a junction box, that must rely on the internet for guidance in his own line of profession - which could mean the difference between life or death...
> 
> yea..... bothers me that licensed does not mean qualified.


So, being an electrician means you know everything there is to know about the trade?

Then why does this forum even exist?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> He is an electrician that doesn't know how to use a code book, that believes you *may* be able to splice line voltage w/out a junction box,


Quite frankly, I think you can splice k&t without a box otherwise art. 394.56 would make no sense.


> 394.56 Splices and Taps.
> Splices shall be soldered unless approved splicing devices are used. In-line or strain splices shall not be used.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So, being an electrician means you know everything there is to know about the trade?
> 
> Then why does this forum even exist?



No being an electrician means you are qualified and have the means to find the correct answer and verify it... aka NEC


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> No being an electrician means you are qualified and have the means to find the correct answer and verify it... aka NEC


 
Again, then why does this foruem exist? If being an electrician means you know how to find the answer, then why bother with dome dink-butt internet forum?

How many posts have you seen, *even from the regulars here*, asking, "Where in the Codebook is..........?" or "OK, I'm having a brain fart here, help me out.............."?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> No being an electrician means you are qualified and have the means to find the correct answer and verify it... aka NEC



I agree with Ken.. If you can find all the answers then you are a better man than I am. There is so much out there. K&T is one of those articles that causes hardship for many good electricians. Code book is not always that helpful with interpretation.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Ok so using your logic, registering for this forum should also come with a state electrical contractors license. Because when in doubt ask the internet, don't worry about finding the answer on your own. "But Inspector, Dennis Alwon and 480Sparky told me I could" doesn't fly in the real world. Everything you read on the internet must be true? Lets just put peoples lives in the hands of public forums. 

What if this was a question in a licensing exam? Would you bust out your blackberry and hit up electriciantalk.com



/rant


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Ok so using your logic, ...........


 
No, that's not even close to using 'my logic' in, well, sorry for this.......... a logical post.

If you're saying an electrician should know the answer, then why are we even here? Don't most of us here, no matter our experience, still have questions?

So the OP doesn't know the ins and outs of K&T. Big deal. I'll be the first to admit there are some aspects of our trade that I am virtually clueless about.

If you want a trade where a noobie can learn everything on the first day, then become a plumber. All they need to know is 1. shît runs downhill, 2. payday is Friday, and 3. it's not _plumber's crack_, it's _cleavage_.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If you're saying an electrician should know the answer, then why are we even here? Don't most of us here, no matter our experience, still have questions?


Wrong. *Part of being an electrician is knowing where to find the correct answer. *









The OP would gain more respect if his question was phrased like..... "Im having trouble understanding article... ..." or "I have looked at articles X, Y, Z but cant find..."




480sparky said:


> If you want a trade where a noobie can learn everything on the first day, then become a plumber. All they need to know is 1. shît runs downhill, 2. payday is Friday, and 3. it's not _plumber's crack_, it's _cleavage_.


:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Wrong. *Part of being an electrician is knowing where to find the correct answer. *


OK, where in those books does it tell me where to put my smoke detectors?

Where do the tell me whether I can drill a hole in a LVL beam?

Where does it tell me where to use specific PPE?

Do I need to bond CSST?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I_get_shocked said:


> No being an electrician means you are qualified


have you seen your username? :laughing:


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

I_get_shocked said:


> No being an electrician means you are qualified and have the means to find the correct answer and verify it... aka NEC


I think you will have to understand his ignorance..... he is from Boston..... and his name is " I get shocked"


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

Mike Guile said:


> If you do that you will be sued for all you have if there is a fire at all in the house.


But maybe he is an LLC..... you said in a previous post if you are an LLC you have no personal liability........


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OK, where in those books does it tell me where to put my smoke detectors?
> 
> Where do the tell me whether I can drill a hole in a LVL beam?
> 
> ...



you can pose questions that arent available in the NEC such as bonding ss tubing (see 2011 nec provided the NFGC proposal is accepted and published), protective equipment and building code. You must supplement electrical code with building code and osha regulations... 

The *real* question is what article deals with K&T? Can I splice it? Do I need a Junction box? Which IS available in the NEC


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> you can pose questions that arent available in the NEC such as bonding ss tubing (see 2011 nec provided the NFGC proposal is accepted and published), protective equipment and building code. You must supplement electrical code with building code and osha regulations...
> 
> The *real* question is what article deals with K&T? Can I splice it? Do I need a Junction box? Which IS available in the NEC


But according to you, we all should know where to find all the answers.

If so, WHY DOES THIS FORUM EXIST if we know it all?


If you know where to find it all, then why do YOU ask questions?

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f9/rate-my-panel-apprentice-6-mo-experience-7202/

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/help-locating-wallplate-9432/

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/pool-bonding-flower-pattern-8422/


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> But according to you, we all should know where to find all the answers.
> 
> If so, WHY DOES THIS FORUM EXIST if we know it all?
> 
> ...




I didnt know where to locate a one-off wallplate. Oh my godddd! You got me!!! !! 


I questioned a dumbass inspector and challenged his comments which could not be found in the NEC! Flowerpattern? WTF? 



I post a pic asking for opinions on my work as an apprentice, shame on me.


You sure do have a lot of time what with researching my posts and all


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> I didnt know where to locate a one-off wallplate. Oh my godddd! You got me!!! !!
> 
> 
> I questioned a dumbass inspector and challenged his comments which could not be found in the NEC! Flowerpattern? WTF?
> ...


But you should know where to look at that information up, shouldn't you?




I_get_shocked said:


> .........You sure do have a lot of time what with researching my posts and all


 
No, not really. 

I just know where to look it up. :whistling2:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> You sure do have a lot of time what with researching my posts and all


The point is there are many people on this forum from different walks of life and with different abilities. The OP, for all I know , may be a helper or, if you will, an apprentice trying to gain knowledge to impress his boss. 

I don't care if the guy is a master electrician, if he asks a question either answer it or not. At least give him the benefit of the doubt. I would never want to discourage learning.

There are things buried so deep in the code that I know you and many others would have a difficult time finding. 

I still run into things I don't know and often can't locate the info. K & T is located in many areas of the code-- if I didn't have the cd and use the search feature I would never have been able to pull up the code sections I posted.

All I ask is to give people a chance without demeaning them. Not everyone is as smart as you.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I_get_shocked said:


> He is an electrician that doesn't know how to use a code book, that believes you *may* be able to splice line voltage w/out a junction box, that must rely on the internet for guidance in his own line of profession - which could mean the difference between life or death...
> 
> yea..... bothers me that licensed does not mean qualified.


 
Dude, you are an apprentice (part time according to your profile) I would be a little more humble with your posts.


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## zappy (Mar 6, 2009)

*Code book for dummies*

I'd buy that for a dollar!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zappy said:


> I'd buy that for a dollar!


 
Will this do?







 


Then there's this:​ 






 

Ah, screw it. Let's go all-out and full-bore:​ 






 


Then there's the one I authored:​ 











Naaaaaa, let's get this one:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*More Dummies books*

Or, we could get into Power-Saver selling:













Of course, in order to put lipstick on that pig and sell it, we'll need to learn how to do marketing:​


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I can't wait to wire a log house. I'll have a dummies guide and everything.
:thumbup:


Honestly though, I don't think I've ever seen a log home in person. Log cabin, yes, but not a log home.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I read the PF correction one and it was pretty good. However, I am not talking about it.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

None of them are better than _Self-Induced Ventricular Fibrillation for Dummies_.
It's a little pre 9-11, but the applications still hold up.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The first thing you do when you see knob and tube is start looking for.. a escape route out of the building!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Some people simply don't want to look it up, and that's okay too. It's often faster, easier, and more concise to ask a question on the 'net. I'd call that working efficiently.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> The first thing you do when you see knob and tube is start looking for.. a escape route out of the building!


You are being facetious...right?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> The first thing you do when you see knob and tube is start looking for.. a escape route out of the building!




Negative. I look for variable to stash the revenue i will get


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Negative. I look for variable to stash the revenue i will get


Now yer talkin'.


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