# Voltage Regulator question



## nolabama

Same regulator we had installed as a pole mount some time ago. It now has been converted to a pad mount. Is this deadly? Would you set it up? 










Note it was removed from service not in neutral. 























Well deadly or not metal platform too. No bypass switch either.


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## wildleg

brain is spinning. so many issues. tidal water ? distance from shore ? height above datum plane ? use/ahj ? (railroad, county, other ?) voltage ? clearances ?


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## nolabama

wildleg said:


> brain is spinning. so many issues. tidal water ? distance from shore ? height above datum plane ? use/ahj ? (railroad, county, other ?) voltage ? clearances ?


Yes. Less than a hundred feet. What's a datum plane? Ahj is us/ railroad. 7200vac . 18 inches to control cabinet. Less than three feet to fence. Also a switch outside of fence about a foot away.


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## Wirenuting

nolabama said:


> Yes. Less than a hundred feet. What's a datum plane? Ahj is us/ railroad. 7200vac . 18 inches to control cabinet. Less than three feet to fence. Also a switch outside of fence about a foot away.


A datum plane has to do about the high tide level during xyz...


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## nolabama

Its not gonna get wet during a high tide. Serious storm event maybe. Serious like Katrina but who cares then. It wipes everything off the map. Should have water under it during lessor storms.


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## Big John

I don't have a problem with the can on the ground, but if you guys go by NESC you've got a clearance and height issue with that fence. Even if you don't, I'd sleep easier with a bigger fence.

What's with the flying stress cone on the left?

-John


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## nolabama

I could care less about the fence it the fact the regulator was removed from service not in neutral. No bypass switch so how will it be set up properly? The clearance to the controller is an issue tho. Is this thing gonna blow when turned on? If not how will it be set up right?


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## nolabama

Big John said:


> What's with the flying stress cone on the left?
> 
> -John


If your talking about what I think you are it'a not in service yet


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## guest

nolabama said:


> I could care less about the fence it the fact the regulator* was removed from service not in neutral.* No bypass switch so how will it be set up properly? The clearance to the controller is an issue tho. *Is this thing gonna blow when turned on?* If not how will it be set up right?


If the Load side is connected when it is energized while out of neutral it _might_ fail, violently. (Definitely so if it HAD a bypass switch that was closed on power-up.) Most likely if it is energized out of neutral your load may see excessively high or low voltage and the regulator will "hunt" and make some strange noises. 

To get it back in service safely, do the following:

Disconnect the load side, energize the Line (Source) side, use the controller to run the unit to neutral, De-energize it, then reconnect the load side. Make sure the controller is set to not allow any tap changes, then re-energize the Source side. 

IMHO, a bypass switch is not essential unless you need to maintain service if the regulator ever fails or needs to be physically removed.


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## Big John

mxslick said:


> ...IMHO, a bypass switch is not essential unless you need to maintain service if the regulator ever fails or needs to be physically removed.


 Agreed. All he's doing is running it as a NLTC. The bypass is for continuity of service when you can't handle an outage. This just means you gotta be willing shut down in order to change your taps.

-John


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## wildleg

I don't get this whole setup. what's this thing servicing? It looks like it's in the RR right of way? Does the NEC even apply ?


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## nolabama

wildleg said:


> I don't get this whole setup. what's this thing servicing? It looks like it's in the RR right of way? Does the NEC even apply ?


No NEC. Engineering supervision.


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## gesparky221

Here is a picture of a regulator not in neutral when connected! I would not want to be the guy in the cage if this happened!


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## guest

gesparky221 said:


> Here is a picture of a regulator not in neutral when connected! I would not want to be the guy in the cage if this happened!


BZZZZTTTT!! Wrong my friend. 

I posted those pics some time ago on another thread, and they came from a power lineman's site. http://powerlineman.com/pic_archive/2006/july/dryden/dryden.htm

(Pics and info credit to Mr. Ron Dryden)

What REALLY happened in those pics was that the regulator failed _*while in service,*_ shortly after it was rebuilt:



> We came to work one morning to the sound of fire truck and ambulance sirens.
> They were talking about a transformer fire at the railroad on the radio.
> The police dispatch didn't seem overly excited and hadn't called for the line crew as yet.
> When the phone did start ringing it was calls of power off on both of the circuits
> fed from one of our 69KV subs. When the superintendent arrived,
> we headed toward the sub station to see what was going on.
> We arrived on the scene to find the fire department sitting on top of the hill
> watching the flames die down.​
> 
> *The regulator that failed had just been placed into service the previous afternoon
> after a rebuild. It stepped down fine through the night, but as the load began to increase in the morning it failed to raise. *After killing the feed and back-feeding the two circuits onto one of the other subs, we cleaned and repaired this one.
> Luckily it was at the end of winter and our load was low enough to allow us
> plenty of time to find replacement regulators and get the sub  back on line.


That said, the end result will be much the same if the regulator was connected while not in neutral with a bypass switch closed.


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## nolabama

Soo.... We have found a procedure for running it down to neutral with a generator. I will share more tomorrow. Hope to have it energized by quit time tomorrow.


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## guest

nolabama said:


> Soo.... We have found a procedure for running it down to neutral with a generator. I will share more tomorrow. Hope to have it energized by quit time tomorrow.


Just take your time and be careful, you'll be ok.  

And take pics of the genny hookup or anything else interesting that happens.


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## nolabama

mxslick said:


> Just take your time and be careful, you'll be ok.
> 
> And take pics of the genny hookup or anything else interesting that happens.


Definatly on the genny hook up. We all need to have this one in our back pockets.


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## jza

What does it mean to "run it down to neutral"?


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## guest

jza said:


> What does it mean to "run it down to neutral"?


Step regulators like the ones in this thread are basically boost/buck transformers with multiple taps for boosting and bucking the output voltage as needed to maintain the set voltage. One of the possible tap positions is "Neutral" ie. no boost or buck, whatever voltage comes in goes out. This is where the regulator MUST be if it is to be bypassed, otherwise the bypass switch creates an internal short circuit path. In the case with no bypass switch, energizing the regulator with a connected load in other than the neutral position can cause severe over-or under-voltage to the load. 

What the term means is to use the controller to reset the taps to the neutral position. This almost always needs to be done with line (or Source as it is called with regulators) power applied. 


Most are "On-load Tap Changers" where they change taps as needed to maintain voltage with up to rated load applied. Others (like some pole-mount and pad mounts transformers) MUST be changed while unloaded.


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## user4818

mxslick said:


> BZZZZTTTT!! Wrong my friend.
> 
> I posted those pics some time ago on another thread, and they came from a power lineman's site.


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## guest

Peter D said:


>


Bite me Hack boy, I have the documentation and proof to back it up, click the link and read the rest of the post. :tt2::tt2::tt2::laughing:


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## gesparky221

The guy who sent me these pics didn't really know the rest of the story. I still would not want to be in that small cage if this happened while I was in there.


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## nolabama

gesparky221 said:


> The guy who sent me these pics didn't really know the rest of the story. I still would not want to be in that small cage if this happened while I was in there.


The controller is being moved.


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## guest

Hey nolabama, what happened with this? Or did you get blowed up? :laughing:


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## nolabama

We took a generator to the regulator , powered the controller externally and ran the motor down to the neutral position. Hotted the transmission line up and everything held good nothing blew up. We have a auto transformer at the beginning of the line and the regulator at the end. I was worried that the two would buck against each other. They did not, everything performed as intended. Except the cable repair to the transmission line. It failed for the I don't know what number of times. I have recommended firing the HV contractor responsible for the failed splice. I have had a gut full of these idiots. They were supposed to have put in place a high dollar fluke data logger on the primary. I have not seen said meter. I would like to see these guys run off the property. That being said redundant generators have been set up again, the same morons that swear the cable is fixed will be hipoting the cable again. And I am gonna start politiciing to get these guys outta here.


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## Big John

Ask for the certifications of the guys doing the splicing. More than once I've seen a contractor trot out "high voltage splicers" who's only qualifications were that they went to a 3 day class on installing Raychem splice kits. 

-John


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## micromind

Big John said:


> Ask for the certifications of the guys doing the splicing. More than once I've seen a contractor trot out "high voltage splicers" who's only qualifications were that they went to a 3 day class on installing Raychem splice kits.
> 
> -John


3 days???......The one a bunch of us did was less than 3 hours!!


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## nolabama

Well further developments. I have managed to run them off for now. It seems we have lost a 14400/7200 xformer when it failed Friday. The POCO threatened to press charges on who was "messing with their property". Jerks. Last time it was our xformer. Any way I threw the contractors under the bus so to speak. Had a few cut outs put in and we are getting a new xformer this morning if I keep my cool and the just come out here and hang a pot. I really need better people skills. Playing dumb is getting old.


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## guest

Glad to hear the regulator project turned out ok. :thumbup:

Do you have any pics of the transformer failure carnage?


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## nolabama

No carnage. Poco said pot was good after they took it down I don't know. It would not hold a 3 amp or 50 amp fuse changed pot all good.


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## TTW

I am now a student in school studying to obtain my J man cert. I don't know anything about these doohickys but I find the whole power distribution side of this world fascinating. 
Question:
How does it change taps? Is it a mechanical rod and lever sort of thing? Solenoid operated?


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## nolabama

It's got a motor in it I think. Thankfully I have never had to open this one.


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## frenchelectrican

nolabama said:


> It's got a motor in it I think. Thankfully I have never had to open this one.


The larger regulators will have motour in there but smaller one can be either way by using motour or solenoid actavition.

I have ripped one open due the regulatour fail to change taps due the motour was burnted out due the pin fell out of the postion and cause the motour to lockup.

The POCO ( EDF ) have to kill that one and put in bypass mode and yank the bad one out.

Merci,
Marc


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