# Electrical Planning



## FCR1988 (Jul 10, 2011)

After you get a job do any of you build the panel schedule and create a blueprint for both you and the HO / GCs to have?


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

FCR1988 said:


> After you get a job do any of you build the panel schedule and create a blueprint for both you and the HO / GCs to have?


For what?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Resi? Hell no. I have no idea how I'm going to wire it until I start drilling out, and I'm sure not going to mark up resi prints. Nobody pays for that.


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## FCR1988 (Jul 10, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Resi? Hell no. I have no idea how I'm going to wire it until I start drilling out, and I'm sure not going to mark up resi prints. Nobody pays for that.


Yea I could see that. What about a synopsis of the wiring when it's finished. The only reason I ask is every house I've lived in there's been no documentation on the electrical side. It would be nice to know what's on what circuit especially when half the electricians i've seen cant write legibly on the panel.

Do you print out the panel schedule or write in directly on the panel?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

It's a house. Not an art project. If the next guy needs prints, I'd say he's not much of an electrician.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

FCR1988 said:


> After you get a job do any of you build the panel schedule and create a blueprint for both you and the HO / GCs to have?



If they pay me dearly, then I will. Never been asked that before for resi.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

I did some trouble shooting on a house that had a circuit layout in the panel who ever did it made our job much easier. 
Sadly as the price of roping a house has been driven down little things like that have fallen by the way.


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

Normally not,
I do modular homes every once in a while. 
They come with a detailed set of prints. 
Those do get a printed panel schedule, just like new commercial.


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## OKelectric (Mar 6, 2012)

FCR1988 said:


> Yea I could see that. What about a synopsis of the wiring when it's finished. The only reason I ask is every house I've lived in there's been no documentation on the electrical side. It would be nice to know what's on what circuit especially when half the electricians i've seen cant write legibly on the panel.
> 
> Do you print out the panel schedule or write in directly on the panel?


In my area you won't pass final unless the panel is *"legibly"* marked


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## FCR1988 (Jul 10, 2011)

OKelectric said:


> In my area you won't pass final unless the panel is *"legibly"* marked


That's not really what i meant. For instance my Jman wrote "Hall Lites". Really? Hall Lites? First of all, there's way more than Hall Lights on that circuit, but by going off of that I would exclude that circuit from any troubleshooting until it's the last one I'd need to look at. IMO, it doesn't look professional when, for one, words aren't spelled right, and two, when they are in pencil and diagonal on the panel. It only takes 10 minutes to make a panel schedule in excel, and write up a summary atleast saying "Hall Lites - Hall Lights, Receptacles, Smoke Detectors etc." Sure, some customers might not acknowledge the fact that it's uncommon but if it can lead to more work and doesn't take very long to do why not do it?

I'm just thinking about ways to go above and beyond other ECs in my area when I go out on my own.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

I did do one set of "As Built" drawings for a residential house. Drew every circuit out on 2 sheets. One receptacles, one lighting. The receptacles and lighting circuits are not mixed.
The panel schedules are typed and there is a copy of them on the drawings as well.
Then again the house I did this for is MY OWN :thumbup:

A pet peeve of mine when it comes to panel schedules is circuits labeled
"plugs". That and items misspelled. I have seen circuits labeled: Wah heater. Wa heater, Wahter Heeter, receptles, receptells, plugs, litz, furnase, kitchan plugs, toolet outlet and many more.


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## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

The company I work for does as built drawings. It makes change orders and other crap faster to figure out.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

LightsOn81 said:


> The company I work for does as built drawings. It makes change orders and other crap faster to figure out.


Yeah, but for a house?? It's standard (generally required) on non-dwelling work, but almost unheard of for a house.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> ........A pet peeve of mine when it comes to panel schedules is circuits labeled "plugs". That and items misspelled. I have seen circuits labeled: Wah heater. Wa heater, Wahter Heeter, receptles, receptells, plugs, litz, furnase, kitchan plugs, toolet outlet and many more.



What's worse is a door full of alphabet soup.

LR
DR 
K
K
B
BR
BR1
BR2
G
DW
WP
HT
F
SP
O
M
R
MB
EC
SS
SD
AC
RF
GT
MK
AL


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> What's worse is a door full of alphabet soup.
> 
> LR
> DR
> ...


 
That case it will give a WTF expression once awhile they will put a person name in that room that kinda give me a headache due they will say this person room but no longer there so I just marked down by driection of N, S, E, W. and that it. unless the room have number then I will go from there.

Merci,
Marc


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

never mind


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

FCR1988 said:


> After you get a job do any of you build the panel schedule and create a blueprint for both you and the HO / GCs to have?


Usually required if we want to get paid, the panel schedule is also a code requirement.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Our building codes are very strict here and most inspectors enforce what ever is on the plans. If something is changed, it will need a revision.
All of our permitted plans require a panel schedule and a load calculation. All of the circuits are listed on the plans.

I was taught that the panel schedule was your signature on a completed job, much in the way an artist signs his work. I keep to that as much as practical.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> ........once awhile they will put a person name in that room that kinda give me a headache due they will say this person room but no longer there ............


*408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification*. ............... No circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> *408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification*. ............... No circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy.


Or the ability to spell ...........










There were no furnaces supplied from this panel.:jester:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*4*

i've done blueprints and panel schedules for some 4 family's here and there. (commercial technically here). 

Here is what my panel schedule looks like

2 Bob's Room
4 Little Billy's room
6 That outlet over by tree
8 Some lights towards the west 

etc...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Or the ability to spell ...........
> 
> 
> 
> There were no furnaces supplied from this panel.:jester:


But I'll bet the Brook Room is. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Given the time, my schedules will end up like these:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> But I'll bet the Brook Room is. :laughing:


The pen is mine over fresh white out. :laughing:

I spelled it correctly 'break' but my penmanship is poor. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> The pen is mine over fresh white out. :laughing:
> 
> I spelled it correctly 'break' but my penmanship is poor. :laughing:



Well, it could be Brook's room. Or the owner is exceedingly eccentric and had a brook installed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Or the owner is exceedingly eccentric and had a brook installed.


Cool, some trout stocked in it, a little dock for fish'n. :jester:


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

Blue bedroom, Yellow bedroom-one of my personnel favorites.
Chinese restaurant with all panel schedules is Chinese characters, pretty good.


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## FCR1988 (Jul 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Usually required if we want to get paid, the panel schedule is also a code requirement.


I meant before rough, not after. The reason I ask is because no one i work with does it and half way through they realize there's too much on the circuit. Where as, if they planned it out ahead of time that wouldn't have been a problem.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Podagrower said:


> Blue bedroom, Yellow bedroom-one of my personnel favorites.
> Chinese restaurant with all panel schedules is Chinese characters, pretty good.


Yes, not at all uncommon in Honolulu to see that. Or Korean. Hardly ever for Japanese, they seem to be pretty literate in written English.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

FCR1988 said:


> After you get a job do any of you build the panel schedule and create a blueprint for both you and the HO / GCs to have?


Only 1 job I was asked [and paid to] draw prints of the electrical layout of the house[that I initially designed]. It was a custom wired victorian, and came out perfect.:thumbsup:


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## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

Sorry for my short sighted comment. In my rush to post I didn't consider you guys putting houses together.


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## trebgge68 (Jul 16, 2010)

One local township here requires that the drawings submitted by the builder for their permits be marked up with an electrical layout. Funny thing is their inspectors could care less about the drawings that were submitted, but will walk through a rough-in with me asking how circuits are laid-out, where lighting circuits are fed from and where hallway recpticles are fed from.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Well, it could be Brook's room. Or the owner is exceedingly eccentric and had a brook installed.


A room stocked with Brook Burke would suit me just fine.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

I must be the dullest blade in the shed, because I'm still learning a lesson I should have learned my first week in the trade:

Plan. Label. Document.

No matter how simple the job, I always find myself wishing I had done it better. 

So, how do I document a job?

Well, the first thing I do is take pictures of EVERYTHING, before I start. 

I make a plan, a sketch, a list of what the customer wants. I'll go around with a roll of blue masking tape, making notes and sticking bits to the wall. You want a receptacle there? OK, on goes a bit of tape marked 'receptacle.'

I continue to 'scout' the location. What else is present? What is the method of construction? What is my access? All of this is to tell me what I'll need to bring to the job.

I plan the work ... how am I getting my power? ... and make a sketch. I may not need it today, but when the guy calls me back in five years I won't recall if the wire went up then left, or left first and then up.

I make sure to get pictures of the walls when they're open. Again, five years from now you might want to look before you start making new holes.

It doesn't take much of a job before it's worth my time to make a simple floor plan. Having it all laid out often helps me to see patterns. Here you make some choices that affect your planning.

How much time do we spend tracing circuits? Panels don't really allow for a good description. Writing "BR#1" doesn't help much if the circuit really only serves some of the receptacles in BR#1, some in BR#2, and none of the lights. If you want to call the circuit "BR#1," maybe you should run the wires a bit differently, so that it really does serve BR#1.

Admit it: the common practice of having one circuit supply both sides of a wall doesn't help much with the panel labelling.

Marking: Mark your wires. Not just at the ends, but at penetrations and at junction boxes. ID circuits at the outlets and J-boxes, as well as at the panel. ID each switch- if nothing else, with a bit of blue masking tape. (I actually have one customer who is still using my labels eight years later).

When you're finished, take some more pictures. Make some notes. Then make a file for the jobsite; the file will let you 'peek' at the job the next time they call.

Not much of an electrician? I've heard that before. I've also had jobs that were interrupted, or had the scope radically change, or had to suddenly hand the work over to another guy. In each instance, the 'documentation' was a lifesaver.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

The only thing i have been running into lately is with the POCO wanting a site plan for the service. I have done two of them now for new services, one residential and one commercial. No big deal doing that. But to build a set of electrical plans for a home? I think we may be required to one day but i do not see how we would be required to stick with those plans. There are always changes being made so i think if we were to be required to build a set of plans for approval and then have to redo the plans upon completion then the customer would see a significant increase in the cost of wiring their home.


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