# going commercial and leaving residential



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Good luck! I love the fact that we do a mix of both. I was adding emergency and exit lights to a commercial building this morning. Surge protection and exhaust fan customers house in the afternoon.
I'd hate doing the same thing everyday.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Awesome Zen, you'll be well rounded, with a raise! Then later get into service. Sometimes I say that I'm a forensic electrician. Always looking for clues as to why it's dead and get it going again.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Im getting pretty sick of resi too.....but thats pretty much all I can get.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Good luck!


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

If your just learning to bend pipe, take your time to do it right and do it over if you have to. Learn to make it look good then learn to make it look good and be fast.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

The Lightman said:


> Then later get into service..


 I agree. I think everyone should have to spend at least a couple years on a service truck.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> If your just learning to bend pipe, take your time to do it right and do it over if you have to. Learn to make it look good then learn to make it look good and be fast.


If you're learning now, go buy 300 feet of 1/2 inch and a bender. 

Do up a bunch of hard piped stuff in your garage (or grandma's, mom's, etc.) 

You got to get in front of the challenge, not sure there's much patience these days for floundering on the job.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> If you're learning now, go buy 300 feet of 1/2 inch and a bender.
> 
> Do up a bunch of hard piped stuff in your garage (or grandma's, mom's, etc.)
> 
> You got to get in front of the challenge, not sure there's much patience these days for floundering on the job.


 Thats what I did too.I went out and bought a couple hundred feet of 1/2 inch and went to town on my basement and garage...When we started the White Castle ( all done in pipe ) I didnt look like a shmuck...


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Way back when I was a commercial apprentice, an electrician taught me a trick when doing multiple bends on a single piece of pipe. Figure out in your head exactly which way that last kick needs to go, then bend it the complete opposite way! You'll be right more often than not!:laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I had a guy come help me who was a resi guy for eight years before doing any pipe-work. 

He was still new to the deal, but the beads of sweat and his committment to dialing it in proper definitely made up for any akward style he had.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Split Bolt said:


> Way back when I was a commercial apprentice, an electrician taught me a trick when doing multiple bends on a single piece of pipe. Figure out in your head exactly which way that last kick needs to go, then bend it the complete opposite way! You'll be right more often than not!:laughing:


That's an interesting idea.

I love putting all my bends in a single piece of pipe. Last company I worked for, though was more interested in getting it up "fast" which often meant lots of cuts, lots of couplings, and lots of waste. But it made them happy.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> Way back when I was a commercial apprentice, an electrician taught me a trick when doing multiple bends on a single piece of pipe. Figure out in your head exactly which way that last kick needs to go, then bend it the complete opposite way! You'll be right more often than not!:laughing:


 

Guy I worked with would take a small piece of wire and bend it to look like the conduit he needed bent. Then he would copy what he did with the wire on the pipe. I thought it was sorta neat.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

thanks for all the support,,,i have been on the service truck for about 4 years in residential although i get what youre saying, residential service calls are fairly easy to me at this point, but commercial service calls will teach me about commercial work ,the same way,,,pipe bending is a must and i got a lot to learn,,,there are soooooo many diffrent ways to approach each situation,,,,,,,i will keep in mind quality first then qauntity,,,


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

* .............*


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Good luck! I love the fact that we do a mix of both. I was adding emergency and exit lights to a commercial building this morning. Surge protection and exhaust fan customers house in the afternoon.
> I'd hate doing the same thing everyday.


Yeah I like mixing it up. In my experience guys who limit themselves to one type of work will always be, well, limiting themselves. There's something to be said for being able to walk into any setting and get the job done.



captkirk said:


> Im getting pretty sick of resi too.....but thats pretty much all I can get.


I'll be feeling your pain soon enough :laughing:

I imagine I won't be scoring much commercial work for my first few years in business, unless I get lucky.



Frasbee said:


> That's an interesting idea.
> 
> I love putting all my bends in a single piece of pipe. Last company I worked for, though was more interested in getting it up "fast" which often meant lots of cuts, lots of couplings, and lots of waste. But it made them happy.


For the hidden stuff, I don't waste my time getting to fancy, if cutting it makes it go faster, I'll cut it. On surface work though, its there to be seen by everyone and has to look good 

...and good luck to the OP for getting into commercial side of things. Things are done pretty differently, but if you want to learn and put in the effort to learn, you will. Its all easy once you know how. Best of luck


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

One other thing I would like to add in. Stay safe. The transformers supplying the systems you will be working on will be able to deliver a lot more fault current than them little buckets up on the poles outside houses, it can get much worse than simply burning a spot out of your *****. Unlike resi you must pay attention to all the safety stuff you learned in apprentice days.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Any updates on the new job?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> I agree. I think everyone should have to spend at least a couple years on a service truck.




IMO doing service work and troubleshooting makes you an electrician. Thats where you learn the most.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Remember, not white wires in sw boxes unless you have some where to land them on, and travelers are the same color


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## wirenut71 (Dec 5, 2010)

An old sparky I knew always kept a piece of wire in his pocket and would bend the wire the way he needed the bends to be. Then he bent the pipe copying the wire.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voltech said:


> Remember, not white wires in sw boxes unless you have some where to land them on, and travelers are the same color


:001_huh: Did I miss something? My brain hurts, stop it!


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm doing more and more commercial work lately and it is nice sometimes but I prefer my resi most of the time. I like that you get to deal with more stuff in commercial but the commercial stuff has more headaches with the 'simplest' jobs and sometimes just finding parts can take up more time than the customer is willing to pay for. Commercial installs are nice though, I feel like more of a craftsman when doing big piped job for some reason. :laughing: I think the main thing that puts me off about commercial is all of the shopping that commercial customers do vs. the resi customers. I guess I wouldn't have had near the frustration if I was just an installer but having to deal with the money end tends to be a headache sometimes, although I have to say some of my best money makers have been commercial service calls :thumbup:, just rare.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Zen, good move. Good luck!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

electrictim510 said:


> I'm doing more and more commercial work lately and it is nice sometimes but I prefer my resi most of the time. I like that you get to deal with more stuff in commercial but the commercial stuff has more headaches with the 'simplest' jobs and sometimes just finding parts can take up more time than the customer is willing to pay for. Commercial installs are nice though, I feel like more of a craftsman when doing big piped job for some reason. :laughing: I think the main thing that puts me off about commercial is all of the shopping that commercial customers do vs. the resi customers. I guess I wouldn't have had near the frustration if I was just an installer but having to deal with the money end tends to be a headache sometimes, although I have to say some of my best money makers have been commercial service calls :thumbup:, just rare.


All the big commercial bidders out here are MC and BX hacks, no one runs conduit


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## vasparky27 (Sep 3, 2010)

I recently went too commercial after 8 years residential. WHOLE NEW BALLGAME. Had some pipe experience (eyeballing and adding couplings). Having difficulty staying focused (60 electricians on site). Learning things from a 1st year is new too me. 

trying too keep my head in the game


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

This is kind of an old thread that got re-hashed. Anyway you don't have to make travelers the same color. That is common, but not a requirement. I don't. I also don't cross the travelers cause of that, and I always land on the same terminal on both three ways.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I don't. I also don't cross the travelers cause of that, and I always land on the same terminal on both three ways.


 

And what does that do? What is the reason for that?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

vasparky27 said:


> I recently went too commercial after 8 years residential. WHOLE NEW BALLGAME. Had some pipe experience (eyeballing and adding couplings). Having difficulty staying focused (60 electricians on site). Learning things from a 1st year is new too me.
> 
> trying too keep my head in the game


I feel like I'm starting over (again) myself. I started in commercial, then had to move into residential after I moved, and now I'm in with an industrial company. 

Yes, there are things that carry over, but it can be a bit discouraging when you don't expect the amount of differences there are between fields. Even starting with a new company in the same field, they may use different material, use different terminology, use different methods. Hell, you may even have to purchase a whole new set of tools and put away the ones you never thought you'd be without.

It's the nature of the beast, you can't know it all if you haven't experienced it all. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up and tell them, "I've never done that before", and you'll be able to add all these new skills to your resume. I try to take something from every journey, and every company I work for. If it's not a new skill, then it may be a refinement on an old one.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> That's an interesting idea.
> 
> I love putting all my bends in a single piece of pipe. Last company I worked for, though was more interested in getting it up "fast" which often meant lots of cuts, lots of couplings, and lots of waste. But it made them happy.


Dude, it's like that everywhere. 



Frasbee said:


> I feel like I'm starting over (again) myself. I started in commercial, then had to move into residential after I moved, and now I'm in with an industrial company.
> 
> Yes, there are things that carry over, but it can be a bit discouraging when you don't expect the amount of differences there are between fields. Even starting with a new company in the same field, they may use different material, use different terminology, use different methods. Hell, you may even have to purchase a whole new set of tools and put away the ones you never thought you'd be without.
> 
> It's the nature of the beast, you can't know it all if you haven't experienced it all. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up and tell them, "I've never done that before", and you'll be able to add all these new skills to your resume. I try to take something from every journey, and every company I work for. If it's not a new skill, then it may be a refinement on an old one.


A word of advice, avoid taking advice from the guy who's been through nearly 10 companies before even completing his apprenticeship.

I use the same tool set for residential, commercial and industrial. It's very easy to be geared up for all three. At the end of the day though, I've never heard of a commercial/industrial guy stepping down to residential and having any difficulty. It's always only the other way around.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jza said:


> Dude, it's like that everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't get why you're always at odds with me.

I have heard from several employers about guys that came into residential after commercial and just didn't cut it because they were too slow, or didn't like the work etc.

And what puts you in a better position to give advice here? 

How long have you been with your company? 

Who is paying for your school?

Any reason to expect to another part of the country and start over somewhere else?


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I don't get why you're always at odds with me.
> 
> I have heard from several employers about guys that came into residential after commercial and just didn't cut it because they were too slow, or didn't like the work etc.
> 
> ...


2-3 years, was with one company before that and they went under. 

Who pays for my school? Stephen Harper himself.


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## Tuesday5189 (Jan 7, 2011)

There was one week that I did a residential job on Martha's Vineyard on a 3 tenant section 8 house, where we had to add 3 new panels and break off the existing panel. One of the apartments was a full refit. This was after I had been working at a hospital for 3 months, doing nothing but pipe, Hospital grade MC, and fat cables like you read about.

It was a learning experience, brushing up on my residential code and learning how to old-work circuits in and out of a 75+ year old woodframe cottage. The hardest part was not being able to say what I really wanted to say out loud 

And having to take a ferry every morning, I figured out which tools I could leave in the truck and the rest I packed into a backpack.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jza said:


> 2-3 years, was with one company before that and they went under.
> 
> Who pays for my school? Stephen Harper himself.


You sound like you're in a pretty stable position. Good for you, seriously. But don't talk $hit on me because I'm not in the same position as you.

It would be great if someone were paying for my school.

It would be great if any of the companies I worked for gave a $hit about me or my education. But the reality is they don't, especially in a state without a formal journeyman license. And the 2 companies I've worked the longest for are 1,200 miles away, and both of them would pick me back up in a heart beat.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> It would be great if any of the companies I worked for gave a $hit about me or my education. But the reality is they don't.


Don't get discouraged, keep doing your best.

It will be years and years before you are paid back for your investment or recognized.

Do solo work, side work, and run some small work. Its like a game for me, not really work. Even if you make fistfuls of money on the jobs, you will still be an outsider, and pushed onto the loser jobs for their damage control. 

My best advice is, if you find a contractor whose office people are honest-to-god straight-shooters who don't have an inside circle-jerk going on, STAY with that company! You will know, trust your gut. If a place turns out to be far short of ideal, move on, just after the year mark. Don't go out on a sour note, other than your departure. There are militant manipulative PM's who will make threats and refuse to give you a reduction in force, that's the kind of boss who puts his claws into people, RUN, if you can, craft your escape if you can't, life is too short.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> You sound like you're in a pretty stable position. Good for you, seriously. But don't talk $hit on me because I'm not in the same position as you.
> 
> It would be great if someone were paying for my school.
> 
> It would be great if any of the companies I worked for gave a $hit about me or my education. But the reality is they don't, especially in a state without a formal journeyman license. And the 2 companies I've worked the longest for are 1,200 miles away, and both of them would pick me back up in a heart beat.


i have not worked as an electrician for over a year now, if you are having trouble finding a good job as an electrician look at other types of work. different apprenticeships, utitilty companies, utility contractors, any type of work where you work with your hands, many companies respect electricians because they have to use their brains along with their muscles.

i love electrical work, but i also want a steady paycheck. right now thats not where im going to find a steady check. 

i cant stop coming to this forum though, there is a lot of good information and opinions here. good luck in your travels.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

edward said:


> i have not worked as an electrician for over a year now, if you are having trouble finding a good job as an electrician look at other types of work. different apprenticeships, utitilty companies, utility contractors, any type of work where you work with your hands, many companies respect electricians because they have to use their brains along with their muscles.
> 
> i love electrical work, but i also want a steady paycheck. right now thats not where im going to find a steady check.
> 
> i cant stop coming to this forum though, there is a lot of good information and opinions here. good luck in your travels.


My employment has only become erratic in the past 7 months because I haven't lived how most people live. Since 2008 I have lived in PA, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and now PA again. When I say "companies", that includes 1 or 2 man shows where it was short term employment until a job was done. I've quit 3 of the 4 companies I worked with in the past 6 months since I've moved back to Philly because they paid too little for the commute I was putting in. 

Sure I'll take 12 dollars an hour commute and provide more power tools than you have in your gang box, because that's the best I could find right now, but you can bet your ass I'm gonna jump ship as soon as the opportunity presents itself. 

The economy sucks, but I still have a choice. As many of the company owners here have said: "If you don't like it, quit." Done and done.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

]Exactly the right attitude. Hang in there you will get your break keep working wherever you can it looks good on the resume.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

edward said:


> ]Exactly the right attitude. Hang in there you will get your break keep working wherever you can it looks good on the resume.


No, it doesn't.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jza said:


> No, it doesn't.


It's all a facade.

All that matters is once you're in the door you can back up everything you put on the paper, and everything you said at the interview.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

jza said:


> No, it doesn't.


 
you think an employer will be more impressed that someone sat around collecting unemployment for a year instead of working for a smaller contractor earning a paycheck?

if so you are wrong. long term unemployed are having serious problems finding work because they have been out of work for so long. employers are hesitant to hire these people and are hiring people that have been able to keep working.


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## StarLo (Jan 12, 2011)

edward said:


> you think an employer will be more impressed that someone sat around collecting unemployment for a year instead of working for a smaller contractor earning a paycheck?
> 
> if so you are wrong. long term unemployed are having serious problems finding work because they have been out of work for so long. employers are hesitant to hire these people and are hiring people that have been able to keep working.


While what you say is true, jza is also correct in saying that it doesn't look very good to have 3-5 employers over that same year period.


Unless you are union or a working for a temp service.


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