# Steel Stud Ceiling



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Lay down plywood. Don't be surprised if you have to screw it in place... to stop the steel from bending away. You can reverse the process later.

However, it's the usual practice to work the solution from below -- and to lay//mount the drivers within a hand's reach from the hole.

The MC is brought to the location with the usual fish & pull methods -- which I rather think you're quite familiar with.

If still stumped -- PM me.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

telsa said:


> Lay down plywood. Don't be surprised if you have to screw it in place... to stop the steel from bending away. You can reverse the process later.
> 
> However, it's the usual practice to work the solution from below -- and to lay//mount the drivers within a hand's reach from the hole.
> 
> ...


Can't do these from below, I tried, and examined one from an access.
I've laid plywood across before, but since I've seen a water line break, I'm a little hesitant on putting a couple hundred pounds up there.

That's why I'm wondering what weight they are rated to support


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

dronai said:


> Anybody have any idea ?


It's very possible that ceiling was designed only to support the weight of the drywall. If the ceiling joists look like regular steel 2x4 studs they almost certainly aren't going to support your weight. At best you'll screw up the drywall when it flexes, at worst, well it could obviously get really ugly. 

I often see architectural features framed this way in commercial construction, real headache for old work.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Dumb question...can you hang a cheap aluminum ladder section horizontally from above?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dumb question: Why do you need to get to the drivers?

Not a dumb question: What kind of village idiot would conceal drivers above a solid ceiling?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

splatz said:


> It's very possible that ceiling was designed only to support the weight of the drywall. If the ceiling joists look like regular steel 2x4 studs they almost certainly aren't going to support your weight. At best *you'll screw up the drywall when it flexes, at worst, well it could obviously get really ugly. *
> 
> I often see architectural features framed this way in commercial construction, real headache for old work.


 That's what i'm afraid of



Bird dog said:


> Dumb question...can you hang a cheap aluminum ladder section horizontally from above?


Nope, access is through a removable AC grill



99cents said:


> Dumb question: Why do you need to get to the drivers?
> 
> Not a dumb question: What kind of village idiot would conceal drivers above a solid ceiling?


 They are attached to the fixture junction box cover. I can't understand why they build this way either. It's a restaurant, so they burn long hours, and fail regularly


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Install fake AC grills or access doors to reach them? Replace the whole light?


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

You didn’t design it so here’s what they get.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

HertzHound said:


> You didn’t design it so here’s what they get.


That's what I usually install for these types of problems, but this ceiling is really busy and in a tight area. It may be the only solution, unless I risk the crawl , Thanks


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

I tried this once. Ended up buying a ceiling and I still can't move my right pinky finger like I used to.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Seen this done with blanked off ceiling grilles before.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

dronai said:


> That's what I usually install for these types of problems, but this ceiling is really busy and in a tight area. It may be the only solution, *unless I risk the crawl* , Thanks


Make sure your insurance is up to date!


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

dronai said:


> That's what I usually install for these types of problems, but this ceiling is really busy and in a tight area. It may be the only solution, *unless I risk the crawl* , Thanks





MechanicalDVR said:


> Make sure your insurance is up to date!


Explain the situation to the customer & offer to install the access doors along with fixing lights. Also, have them sign a waiver if you do go in the ceiling. If the ceiling collapses, they will possibly have lost customer revenue $$$.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

dronai said:


> That's what i'm afraid of
> 
> 
> Nope, access is through a removable AC grill
> ...


It's done that way because it was the quickest way to get them open when they built (or rebuilt) the place. That's something that's always a priority in foodservice.

Suggest a retrofit of the entire dining room so they can mitigate this problem once and forever.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Some of the ones I’ve seen installed new recently, I thought “what a pain the ass that’s going to be to fix”. And then I had to. The joys of being one of the last guys on the job. 

If the light is listed, it should be serviceable without taking apart the ceiling. Is it a problem the way they were installed where you can’t get at the driver. Some of the ones I fixed, I left a lot of DNA above the ceiling. My hands were pretty bloody. 

The 4” round ones had the drivers on whips. They were stil a pain to get them free if the installer tied them down to the bars in such a way you couldn’t get to it. 

Everyone should spend some time doing service work before a career of new work.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Abandoning the drivers might be the cheapest safest way out. 

Can you abandon the drivers that are mounted and now inaccessible, mount them somewhere accessible like over a closet ceiling, and run your low voltage cabling from the drivers to the lights with a gopher pole?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

HertzHound said:


> Some of the ones I’ve seen installed new recently, I thought “what a pain the ass that’s going to be to fix”. And then I had to. The joys of being one of the last guys on the job.
> 
> If the light is listed, it should be serviceable without taking apart the ceiling. Is it a problem the way they were installed where you can’t get at the driver. Some of the ones I fixed, I left a lot of DNA above the ceiling. My hands were pretty bloody.
> 
> ...


No kidding !!! Too bad they didn't make these like the residential type that you could access from below. Nope, these are designed to be accessed from above. 


splatz said:


> Abandoning the drivers might be the cheapest safest way out.
> 
> Can you abandon the drivers that are mounted and now inaccessible, mount them somewhere accessible like over a closet ceiling, and run your low voltage cabling from the drivers to the lights with a gopher pole?


Yes you can abandon the old ones, but you still can't reach the live wires without going up there. Just a PIA job.


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## AKFEnergy (Dec 28, 2018)

Do you have a picture of the fixture within the drywall?

I have worked on a similar fixture where the driver is above the hard ceiling.

We just dismantles the light from the inside out, leaving the ring and the retaining screws that hold everything in place.

J, box with driver, or in my case they where small ballasts attached to the cover of the j box could be reached with one hand, and I would have to use needle nose pliers to nit pick at the wires. 

Its a sumumabitch, but i'v done it.

Not sure how big your fixture is though.


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