# Klein Tool needed improvements.



## zac (May 11, 2009)

I wouldn't buy meters or circuit finders from Klein but found most of their hand tools acceptable. Screwdrivers I mainly use: flat heads and Robinson's, I've had no issues with. The linemans, *****, cable cutters and needle nose have done me no wrong also. My Allen keys and conduit reamer I've had for 20 years. I see many gimmick tools they spit out (they're hybrid linemans can't cut trim screws short enough for back splashes) and their romex jacket stripping, strippers I've had have been terrible. I've also noticed there zipper bags are pathetic and don't zip without catching. Why and what tools specifically should professionals stay away from? 

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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

The tips on their screwdrivers do not last at all anymore. I understand that when I abuse my flat blade that is my own fault, but my phillips bit wears out just as quick. I have several that have the tips torqued out and deflected, and they are used but not abused. My comparison is the tips in the past were used more than I do now and they lasted longer. 

I have had the finish on the nut drivers chipping off, linesman pliers where the cutting edge goes too quickly, fish tapes where the head comes off (non-conductive ones), 11-1's that have bits almost falling out after a couple months of use..... 

I still like their linesmans and *****, but I think I am done with the rest.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched, I switched to Knipex for lineman’s and ***** and will never look back. Have you tried them? The ones with the red and blue comfort handles are what I like, similar to Klein’s journeyman handles. P

Zac, oddly, the romex strippers are one of the few things that I like from them. Perfect cut every time.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I haven't tried any other brands on linesmans besides Kleins that I can remember. 

For strippers, I prefer the Ideal ones.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Switched, I switched to Knipex for lineman’s and ***** and will never look back. Have you tried them? The ones with the red and blue comfort handles are what I like, similar to Klein’s journeyman handles. P
> 
> Zac, oddly, the romex strippers are one of the few things that I like from them. Perfect cut every time.


You need to go to sleep Hack's it's 11 over there! My problem with the klein romex jacket strippers is that they double clutch when stripping. Maybe I'm cutting to much wire (I usually cut the whole romex) but have never had this problem with the ideals. This thread also isn't about what's better but what's wrong with Klein. This doesn't mean better alternatives aren't welcomed. 

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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I have a couple of old (15 to 20 year old) Klein Robertson head (square #2) drivers that are still square and a screw will still stay on them. I bought a new one that lasted less than a week, returned it assuming it was a dud but the new one stripped as well. Have never bought another Klein tool since.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I bought the 7-in-1 magnetic nut driver. That thing is the biggest joke ever. It's literally like a billy club and is completely unwieldy. This is what happens when they keep trying to make gimmick tools that do everything.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Oh and the Klein romex strippers do suck, I gave mine to an apprentice and bought the Southwire ones instead. They are way better than the stupid Klein ones.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MTW said:


> I bought the 7-in-1 magnetic nut driver. That thing is the biggest joke ever. It's literally like a billy club and is completely unwieldy. This is what happens when they keep trying to make gimmick tools that do everything.


I bought a Lenox 6-1 nut driver from Lowe's, and while it is heavy, it seems to be ok. Time will tell though.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

A few years ago I bought the Klein long shank nut driver set. I have no idea why. Probably a cross beteeen jealousy and tool whore. I knew when I bought them I would never use them. I never use the regular length ones. I don’t carry any nut drivers in my daily carry 

I’ll stick up for Klein. My nut drivers are in perfect shape.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> You need to go to sleep Hack's it's 11 over there! My problem with the klein romex jacket strippers is that *they double clutch when stripping*. Maybe I'm cutting to much wire (I usually cut the whole romex) but have never had this problem with the ideals.


What is "double clutch" in this instance?


MTW said:


> Oh and the Klein romex strippers do suck, I gave mine to an apprentice and bought the Southwire ones instead. They are way better than the stupid Klein ones.


What don't you like about them? What makes the Southwire ones better?

I like the first pair of Klein romex strippers the best, but they got a bit dull so I bought a new pair. The new pair have bigger grips which I find uncomfortable and the lock is in a different position which I HATE. But they still strip romex sheath perfectly everytime. 

I'm always on the lookout for something better so if the Southwire are better I will try them.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> *The tips on their screwdrivers do not last* at all anymore. I understand that when I abuse my flat blade that is my own fault, but my phillips bit wears out just as quick. I have several that have the* tips torqued out and deflected*, and they are used but not abused. My comparison is the tips in the past were used more than I do now and they lasted longer.
> 
> I have had the *finish on the nut drivers chipping off*, linesman pliers where the cutting edge goes too quickly,* fish tapes where the head comes off (non-conductive ones), 11-1's that have bits almost falling out* after a couple months of use.....
> 
> I still like their linesmans and *****, but I think I am done with the rest.



All those issues should be handled under their warranty and replaced, period the end.

Worn out cutting edges aren't warrantied.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Only issues I have ever had with Klein is the screwdriver tips being softer than they used to be and had them replaced under warranty.

I think I had given them 6 or 7 #2 phillips to swap out.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> All those issues should be handled under their warranty and replaced, period the end.
> 
> Worn out cutting edges aren't warrantied.


Agreed, but I just ended up getting new ones on my own. Perhaps I should have gone the warranty route. 

The thing is though, the consistency of it happening across the line says a lot about product quality. I get that nothing is perfect and that stuff can and will fail prematurely, but when there is a pattern of it, they should do something about it.

Hopefully someone at Klein reads these threads and will do something about it, but that would be some wishful thinking at its best.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> Hopefully someone at Klein reads these threads and will do something about it, but that would be some wishful thinking at its best.


They know that their products are inferior, it was a decision that they purposely made. 

They feel that they can make more money by selling crappier products... and it most likely works. 

All they gotta do is give a few of those products out to whores and tell them to post good things on internet forums :vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> Agreed, but I just ended up getting new ones on my own. Perhaps I should have gone the warranty route.
> 
> The thing is though, the consistency of it happening across the line says a lot about product quality. I get that nothing is perfect and that stuff can and will fail prematurely, but when there is a pattern of it, they should do something about it.
> 
> Hopefully someone at Klein reads these threads and will do something about it, but that would be some wishful thinking at its best.


If they don't get the tools back on warranty replacement how would they ever know there is a problem? 

Have you ever emailed them or called to get a rep to call you back?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If they don't get the tools back on warranty replacement how would they ever know there is a problem?
> 
> Have you ever emailed them or called to get a rep to call you back?


Nope.

I just choose not to get them. They won't do a thing about it and we all know it, and I am not wasting hours dealing with a $6-$10 screwdriver.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If they don't get the tools back on warranty replacement how would they ever know there is a problem?
> 
> Have you ever emailed them or called to get a rep to call you back?


If I do a lousy job and the customer doesn’t complain, does that mean I did a good job?

Klein knows they’re cutting corners. They took a good brand name and threw it in the dumpster. Sure, they still make some good things but I judge a brand name by consistency. I shouldn’t have to pick and choose what’s good and what isn’t.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I have no issues with Klein's pliers and cutters etc. But their screwdrivers suck now. The tips wear out fast and they snap off very easily. I've been using a Greenlee 10-in-one that's nice, a good hefty handle and hasn't worn too much after a lot of use.

I suspect that they focus more on their lineman equipment. Some of the stuff I have like haven grips, chicago grips, nut-runners, lineman wrenches, are top notch, and nobody else really makes that stuff.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> If I do a lousy job and the customer doesn’t complain, does that mean I did a good job?
> 
> Klein knows they’re cutting corners. They took a good brand name and threw it in the dumpster. Sure, they still make some good things but I judge a brand name by consistency. I shouldn’t have to pick and choose what’s good and what isn’t.


If a customer thought you did a poor job but never told you and only told her friends you'd never know changes need to be made.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Klein should number one first and foremost get out of the business of putting their name on garbage test and measurement tools, all the garbage meters and etc., Mathias Klein is rolling over in his grave over the recalls. 

Instead of trying to race to the bottom with the rest of the crapmakers, they should take the high road and see how many people will pay for quality basic tools. Put their name on things worthy of the Klein name. 

Klein should buy Knopp and promote a high quality, union made in the USA solenoid tester. They could sell a million of these a year. 

Likewise they should buy Santronics, a high quality made in USA non contact voltage tester.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I like that Klein is innovating. It's OK if some of these fall flat, not every new tool is going to be a home run. 

I liked the needle nose strippers, I know a lot of people did not. The linemans with stripping notches looks interesting. The heavy duty strippers are cool. The multi nut driver, well, they should have asked me about that one before they tried it. I could have told them what they really wanted to do there.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

splatz said:


> I like that Klein is innovating. It's OK if some of these fall flat, not every new tool is going to be a home run.
> 
> I liked the needle nose strippers, I know a lot of people did not. The linemans with stripping notches looks interesting. The heavy duty strippers are cool. The multi nut driver, well, they should have asked me about that one before they tried it. I could have told them what they really wanted to do there.


They are now competing with China owned Milwaukee. It's terrible how many guys think the tools and the company are made in the US. I scoffed when they first came out with hand tools but they are definitely taking a large share of the hand tool market. I'd say most of the guys I work with use Milwaukee pliers and screwdrivers.

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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If a customer thought you did a poor job but never told you and only told her friends you'd never know changes need to be made.


Seriously, you think Klein’s QC is based on customer complaints?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I want the other Klein tool thread back, it was more fun!


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Klein = Klown.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I like the first pair of Klein romex strippers the best, but they got a bit dull so I bought a new pair. The new pair have bigger grips which I find uncomfortable and the lock is in a different position which I HATE. But they still strip romex sheath perfectly everytime.
> 
> I'm always on the lookout for something better so if the Southwire are better I will try them.


Two things I hated about the Klein romex strippers - they have a very stiff spring on them which gets tiresome to use after a while. But the worst thing about them is that they don't cut the jacket very well. They changed the tolerance of the blades to barely score the jacket. 

I was skeptical about buying any Southwire tool but I was pleasantly surprised by the romex strippers. They're the exact opposite of the Klown ones - the spring is very small and they are sharp and accurate.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Two things I hated about the Klein romex strippers - they have a very stiff spring on them which gets tiresome to use after a while. But the worst thing about them is that they don't cut the jacket very well. They changed the tolerance of the blades to barely score the jacket.
> 
> I was skeptical about buying any Southwire tool but I was pleasantly surprised by the romex strippers. They're the exact opposite of the Klown ones - the spring is very small and they are sharp and accurate.


That's odd, both my old ones and new ones cut the sheath perfectly for me. They cut thru the sheath just enough to score the paper too, so the paper breaks perfectly clean when I pull the sheath off. 

Maybe it is different brands of romex cable causing us to have such drastic results?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> That's odd, both my old ones and new ones cut the sheath perfectly for me. They cut thru the sheath just enough to score the paper too, so the paper breaks perfectly clean when I pull the sheath off.
> 
> Maybe it is different brands of romex cable causing us to have such drastic results?


I've used it on every common brand - Romex, Encore, Cerro and Colonial and it sucked with every one. I'll chalk it up to a bad tool. I guess Klein has improved it since then.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I've used it on every common brand - Romex, Encore, Cerro and Colonial and it sucked with every one. I'll chalk it up to a bad tool. I guess Klein has improved it since then.


My original I bought about 8-9 years ago I believe. The second was about 1-2 years ago.

I have seen some people complain that they don't work good so it might be variances in the tooling.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> My original I bought about 8-9 years ago I believe. The second was about 1-2 years ago.
> 
> I have seen some people complain that they don't work good so it might be variances in the tooling.



You might have been using the older design. They changed it a few years ago to a different shape. 

At any rate, Kleins problem is that they are trying to make every hand tool under the sun now. You can't do everything well. So now they are making everything mediocre. Good job Klein.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Seriously, you think Klein’s QC is based on customer complaints?


To an extent, YES!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

I wish they make the bubble on their levels bigger, older I get the more I strain to see the damn thing


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

99cents said:


> Seriously, you think Klein’s QC is based on customer complaints?


It better be if their selling to professionals, otherwise the lose business, as Klein has experienced


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> At any rate, Kleins problem is that they are trying to make every hand tool under the sun now. You can't do everything well. So now they are making everything mediocre. Good job Klein.


That and they are SELLING everything but they are not MAKING everything. They didn't build a meter factory, they put new orange home depot compatible plastic on Chinese garbage and put the Klein NAME on it. uke:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Klein’s job is to make money. They have no duty to provide the world with quality tools. They have a duty to their investors to make a profit. Those two things I just said often don’t coincide. 

Are they making money?
Are they making more money than they used to when they sold quality tools?
Are they making more money now than they would haveif they didn’t cheapen their products and sell meters and other rebranded crap?

Only a very tiny percentage of electrician and other tradesmen take part in groups like this forum. I think it’s safe to say that the overwhelming majority of electrician still believe that Klein are the best tools.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Klein’s job is to make money. They have no duty to provide the world with quality tools. They have a duty to their investors to make a profit. Those two things I just said often don’t coincide.
> 
> Are they making money?
> Are they making more money than they used to when they sold quality tools?
> ...


The idea to become a BRAND rather than a MANUFACTURER probably hinges on their deal with Home Depot. If Home Depot gets sick of them, they are ****ed. They might find out it was better to be a smaller company making quality tools for people that know the difference, rather than a bigger company that folded up when they figured out they can't out-Chinese the Chinese.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> The idea to become a BRAND rather than a MANUFACTURER probably hinges on their deal with Home Depot. If Home Depot gets sick of them, they are ****ed. They might find out it was better to be a smaller company making quality tools for people that know the difference, rather than a bigger company that folded up when they figured out they can't out-Chinese the Chinese.


Klein has a reputation that exceeds Home Depot's necessity. Teaming up helped, and losing them would be a big hit, but they still have their name and all the people who know it.

The average electrician buy's Klein testers and other rebranded crap for the name brand, and most of them think it is a really good product and tell their fellow electricians how good it is. Remember, when doing a continuity test, most electrician don't have any idea what the numbers on the display mean, they just listen for the beep.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If a customer thought you did a poor job but never told you and only told her friends you'd never know changes need to be made.


My point is that Klein has knowingly made changes in design, manufacturing and materials to make an inferior product. They don’t need customers to tell them that, they know it already. It’s a corporate decision. Of course, customer feedback is important with any business but Klein is a money making machine now that just happens to be in the tool business.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> My point is that Klein has knowingly made changes in design, manufacturing and materials to make an inferior product. They don’t need customers to tell them that, they know it already. It’s a corporate decision. Of course, customer feedback is important with any business but Klein is a money making machine now that just happens to be in the tool business.


Exactly!

Klein knows they brand crap products, and they are OK with it. When they get poor customer feedback, they just give away some free tools to whores and tell them to post reviews on internet forums. :vs_laugh:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Klein has a reputation that exceeds Home Depot's necessity. Teaming up helped, and losing them would be a big hit, but they still have their name and all the people who know it.
> 
> The average electrician buy's Klein testers and other rebranded crap for the name brand, and most of them think it is a really good product and tell their fellow electricians how good it is. Remember, when doing a continuity test, most electrician don't have any idea what the numbers on the display mean, they just listen for the beep.


It’s true. My expensive Fluke got stolen. I needed a meter fast and ran into HD and bought a cheap Klein. It beeped just fine. The numbers, however, never settled down and I never trusted the thing. I replaced it with a Fluke. I don’t even know where that Klein meter is now. Maybe it fell out of the truck and it wasn’t worth picking up.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I returned that stupid magnetic 7-in-1 nutdriver. :thumbup:


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> What is "double clutch" in this instance?
> 
> What don't you like about them? What makes the Southwire ones better?
> 
> ...


Sorry for late response but I was working yesterday instead of chatting on this forum. The double clutch is that the stripper won't properly strip the wire the first time. I have to make a second attempt to remove wire. At first I thought I just abused the cutters maybe on some 6/3 but the second pair I bought the same thing happened. This was probably 5 years ago. 

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> My point is that Klein has knowingly made changes in design, manufacturing and materials to make an inferior product. They don’t need customers to tell them that, they know it already. It’s a corporate decision. Of course, customer feedback is important with any business but Klein is a money making machine now that just happens to be in the tool business.


I think their ties with Home Depot kind of ruined their thinking processes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I think their ties with Home Depot kind of ruined their thinking processes.


FWIW, I remember noticing the quality get worse and also remember talk about it on this forum and EKR well before they got in bed with Home Depot.

It wasn't all that long ago, I remember all the Greenlee stuff was taken off the shelf and a lot of it replaced with the exact same stuff only with orange paint a the Klein name :vs_laugh:

I remember clearly that the fiberglass rods and the really long auger bits (4'+) were exactly the same.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Klein does not make very many quality tools anymore. Wera screw driver and knipex plier/strippers run circles around Klein. I still use a Klein reamer, blue handled strippers and their fiberglass fishrods.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

When I started in the trade back when Carter was potus Klein was what you used . Years go by and all my tools get stolen . So I go with all new klein . Well that was the end for me . I do not think they make good tools . The metal seems soft and the quality for the money is not there . Klown is a stupid joke anymore . What they were is not what they are . I own a tripple tap , long shank magnetic nut drivers , and thats it . Be Mr raw raw murica guy it is sad that I will not buy anymore tools from them . 

Hey Klein make good tools and I will buy them until then no love lost .


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## Dr. Evil (Aug 24, 2012)

I hope Klein is reading this....

Im sure when the company was started 150 years ago they endevored to make the best tools they could. We are a long way from that unfortunately. The almighty dollar and shareholders greed drives everything !!!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I doubt at any time they actually strived to make the best tools that they could. That is nothing but a marketing ploy, even 150 years ago.


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## Dr. Evil (Aug 24, 2012)

You are most likely right...They do like to toot their own horn though dont they?


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Don't have any issues with Klein tools other than their number 2 Phillip's but that is true with basically every brand because that tip doesn't fit most most screws for electrical components. 

I have been using this style of #2 phillips for years and its better than any Philips bit on the market and its not even close for screws most electricians use
Mine aren't Klein, I believe they are Dewalt…...not sure I bought a bag of like ten maybe 15 years ago and they simply do not wear out like standard #2 Philips bits 
Buy this style for phillips bits for electrical.....note that it has no pointed tip to wear out and it fits our stuff better because of it 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-T...wer-Insert-Driver-Bit-5-Piece-PH215/205504326


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

bostonPedro said:


> Don't have any issues with Klein tools other than their number 2 Phillip's but that is true with basically every brand because that tip doesn't fit most most screws for electrical components.
> 
> I have been using this style of #2 phillips for years and its better than any Philips bit on the market and its not even close for screws most electricians use
> Mine aren't Klein, I believe they are Dewalt…...not sure I bought a bag of like ten maybe 15 years ago and they simply do not wear out like standard #2 Philips bits
> ...


Wera phillips work great too.

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I still like Klein pilers and screwdrivers but practically everything else they make is trash.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

MTW said:


> I still like Klein pilers and screwdrivers but practically everything else they make is trash.


That's a pretty broad statement. 
I have had no issues with their Allen keys, nut drivers, crescent wrenches etc.
It seems to me the gimmicky stuff along with the meters are the issue. Maybe too the metal is not as good as before but I haven't noticed a decline in my *****, linemans and needle nose. 

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

zac said:


> That's a pretty broad statement.
> I have had no issues with their Allen keys, nut drivers, crescent wrenches etc.
> It seems to me the gimmicky stuff along with the meters are the issue. Maybe too the metal is not as good as before but I haven't noticed a decline in my *****, linemans and needle nose.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Don't you roll your eyes at me or I'll ban you from this thread. The lack of respect on this forum is becoming a big concern. [emoji3]

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## Smid (Jul 9, 2014)

MTW said:


> I returned that stupid magnetic 7-in-1 nutdriver. :thumbup:


I bought that monstrosity thinking it would be good for my veto tp3b pouch but man what a turd that thing is. Good theory, horrible execution. I’d replace my Klein long shaft nut drivers if I could find similar length magnetic ones. The magnets have broken in my 7/16, 5/16 and 3/8


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