# notify power co before pulling meter?



## MDShunk

During hours, I try to. After hours, I do what I gotta do and call the next day.


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## Anathera

the ones around here send an immediate email when you do and they dispatch someone to find at. We've gotten yelled at a couple times for it


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## MDShunk

Anathera said:


> the ones around here send an immediate email when you do and they dispatch someone to find at. We've gotten yelled at a couple times for it


They can yell if they want to, but the bottom line is that, unless you're stealing power, you're not doing anything wrong. The very worst thing they can do is require a service inspection again. They use the old line "meter tampering is illegal", which is technically sorta right and sorta wrong. Tampering with the meter to make it read improperly or bypassing it is illegal. Removing it and reinstalling it is not tampering. There has to be theft or an attempt at theft for it to be illegal. I'll never let some grumpy pole monkey tell me what I can and can't do.


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## Southeast Power

I remove them and could care less what they want or say.
Ill cut the seals, grind off the locks. I have a job to do.
Its their customer that has a problem.
They should bring out a couple of beers and a nice stogie for us if they come out.


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## nrp3

Eversource and Unitil are real good with a phone call and a license number, you’re good to go.


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## MDShunk

Truth is, I seldom get any crap for pulling meters. A lot of the linemen keep me stocked in new seal tags for such occasions. Sorta sucks where I'm at because I'm at the intersection of 2 proper power companies, one municipal power utility, and 2 co-op's. The first challenge is figuring out who the heck's lines they are.


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## Anathera

Anyone had experience with duke energy after pulling their meters? I'm tempted to pop one just to see what would happen


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## MDShunk

Anathera said:


> Anyone had experience with duke energy after pulling their meters? I'm tempted to pop one just to see what would happen


One way to find out. Just tell them you were tightening a lug or something.


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## MTW

I pull meters all the time and never have an issue. Our poco is very lax here in that regard, but we as electricians are permitted to pull and reinstall meters as long as a permit and service request number is obtained. In reality, that never happens for emergency repairs and panel changes.


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## papaotis

where im at teh poco frowns on electricians playing with their electricty! do it often and have been reprimanded with verbal tongue lashings a few times. i put the seal back on and it looks like it was never touched.


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## Dispatch35u

thanks for the reply's. I probably should have explained my situation. I'm a retired journeyman electrician, 37 years industrial with Chrysler Corp and then 10 years residential working for a friends company. I have retired to Myrtle Beach South Carolina and want to change the service panel in my home. Santee Cooper has recently installed Gridstream RF meters. I've looked into getting a contractors license here but its more time and money than I want to spend for one job. Like I said, I'm retired and not looking to go into business.


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## Navyguy

If you tried to pull a meter in Ontario, the "Utility Cops" would be all over you... that is definitely a no go here... it is interesting to hear the stories of what can be done down south.

Cheers
John


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## Anathera

Since you don't have a contractors license pull the permit and let them kill it rather than do it yourself


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## Whocares05050

Navyguy said:


> If you tried to pull a meter in Ontario, the "Utility Cops" would be all over you... that is definitely a no go here... it is interesting to hear the stories of what can be done down south.
> 
> Cheers
> John



utility cops?... Another reason why 'Merica is better :vs_laugh:


Where I live, Florida Power & Light are useless. When you want to schedule a disconnect, they "only" do "2" a day. 9 am and 11 am. Emergency? Oh well, we have an opening in like 3 weeks sir!


I pull that **** and never look back!


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## matt1124

They used to investigate here. Smart meters that POCO uses here have a "last gasp" when you yank them, and if they don't respond after a bit, they would always call the city and ask if there was an open permit, if not, they'd send a truck, if available, to investigate.

They tell me they spot check now, but I've never had anyone show up.

I use the same H taps on the neutral, insulinks on the phases, and have plenty of seals. By the time someone may show up, everything may be new and shiny but it'll be all tied back in, crimped just like they do, and sealed. Who's to say anything happened at all, must have been a comm error...


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## flyboy

Anathera said:


> the ones around here send an immediate email when you do and they dispatch someone to find at. We've gotten yelled at a couple times for it


We've been getting yelled at by utilities for over 30 years. Here's what we say everytime we get yelled at. "Oh, sorry, it won't happen again. :vs_laugh:


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## Tonedeaf

Around here they won't say anything if you a contractor doing work on a residence. 

I replaced large grouping downtown in an apartment building last year; 109 meters. I asked if they wanted to come take a look before i started to go over the modifications. It was a 1200A meter groupings. I installed the new meter groupings infront of the old groupings. I wanted them to come out to OK my new layouts anyways they never came out.

They were like make sure you plug them back in to the right apartment and never came out.


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## tmessner

I like to get along with the power company reps. I try to call and let them know what is going on. If they are in the area they will come otherwise we pull and reinstall the meter and they come and seal it. I like to earn, not burn brownie points. One never knows when you will need them.


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## Zog

I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


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## tmessner

Thanks for the reminder.


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## MechanicalDVR

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


Doubt it....:whistling2:


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## matt1124

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


They’re trained for hot work, so it’s not comparable to my non-union hand-me-down OJT training, but the linemen don’t wear it either. They put their gloves on and yank.


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## MTW

matt1124 said:


> They’re trained for hot work, so it’s not comparable to my non-union hand-me-down OJT training, but the linemen don’t wear it either. They put their gloves on and yank.


Exactly, so why do I need to put on a flash suit for that? 

That being said, if the meter socket is sketchy, I'll just cut the taps and pull it. But I've pulled many meters out of questionable sockets and nothing has come apart...yet. :vs_laugh:


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## Cow

Dispatch35u said:


> I want to change the service panel in my home.



In Oregon and many other states, homeowners are allowed to pull their own permits and do their own work. No license required.


It'd be worth a phone call to your local building department.


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## Galt

A few years ago I pulled a meter at a residence to do a panel change before the milwaukee lights came out I use to use a clamp light with a 300 watt sylvania and a cord with a couple of alligator clips on it. What are the odds meter reader comes and calls cops cop says he says, you can't do that, I said I know, cop says I have to take pictures, I said ok I have to get back to work. never heard another word about it.


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## lighterup

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


You neglected to mention to make sure one shuts down all
the loads on that service before pulling the meter out...and
if it's an OH service , after loads are shut down cut the service 
drop...then , if it makes ya feel any better , put your space 
suit on and then pull the meter.

That'll be 1 dollar please.


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## matt1124

lighterup said:


> You neglected to mention to make sure one shuts down all
> the loads on that service before pulling the meter out...and
> if it's an OH service , after loads are shut down cut the service
> drop...then , if it makes ya feel any better , put your space
> suit on and then pull the meter.
> 
> That'll be 1 dollar please.


Again, POCO here does it different. They had me jam the meter back in and yank out over and over under load while they amp clamped all the underground feeds in a pedestal, until they found the one leading to my job.


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## lighterup

matt1124 said:


> Again, POCO here does it different. They had me jam the meter back in and yank out over and over under load while they amp clamped all the underground feeds in a pedestal, until they found the one leading to my job.


okay...I believe you...yet another geographically based difference
in what we encounter in our jobs....ahem ohhh paging Mr George 
Harrison...you're wanted on the white telphone...Mr George Harrison:vs_laugh:


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## micromind

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


As much as I dislike PPE requirements, it's a good idea when working with meters. 

1) Even a single phase meter can make a pretty fair-size fireball.

2) More importantly, the bulky suit and gloves do not introduce additional hazard when working with a meter.


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## Zog

MTW said:


> Exactly, so why do I need to put on a flash suit for that?
> 
> :vs_laugh:


Because burns suck, recovery from an arc flash burn is perhaps the most long drawn out painful things one can experience. 

Go visit a burn unit , I dare you, it will change the way you think about things.


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## MTW

Zog said:


> Because burns suck, recovery from an arc flash burn is perhaps the most long drawn out painful things one can experience.
> 
> Go visit a burn unit , I dare you, it will change the way you think about things.


Thanks mom.

So why don't any poco workers wear them when changing meters? They are subject to far more stringent safety rules and training than we are, and they deal with many meters a day.


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## tmessner

They do around here. gloves, hardhat, glasses, One REA always has 2 guys to a truck for safety reasons. The local investor owned has local service reps, 1 to a truck, Both companies require FR clothing ankle to wrist and the above gear when pulling meters.


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## Zog

MTW said:


> Thanks mom.
> 
> So why don't any poco workers wear them when changing meters? They are subject to far more stringent safety rules and training than we are, and they deal with many meters a day.


I don't know, guess they are idiots too. Our PoCo here wears arc flash PPE to pull meters all the time. While they follow the NESC (which is less restrictive than OSHA/NFPA70E) even pulling an energized meter socket 50-250V still requires arc flash PPE with a minimum rating of 4cal/cm2 (+ gloves, face shield, etc..)


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## lighterup

matt1124 said:


> Again, POCO here does it different. They had me jam the meter back in and yank out over and over under load while they amp clamped all the underground feeds in a pedestal, until they found the one leading to my job.


I'm picturing these guys getting a chuckle out of this scenario.
If it was me...I would tell them to do that themselves...
they don't need your help. They were yanking your chain


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## matt1124

lighterup said:


> I'm picturing these guys getting a chuckle out of this scenario.
> If it was me...I would tell them to do that themselves...
> they don't need your help. They were yanking your chain


It was just one guy by himself. I’m sure he could have found it, I just didn’t have time to wait around. The transformer next door was buried in vegetation and the pedestal in the yard wasn’t labeled correctly with the address to the house. Just a house number that couldn’t exist on that block. 

I had a downtime window from 10a-1pm. When I got there about 10:15 and it was still hot, I called in to find the city never sent them the permit and shutdown request. By the time I got a lineman out there, and they got the poison ivy raked back, and conductors identified and cut loose, my panel was in the full sun, and I had about an hour before my next call. 

They hooked me up with seals and C/H taps. I don’t mind to help LOL


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## lighterup

Just as a coincidence...

I cut OH power to a single phase 240v/100a service today , 
pulled the meter out of the meter socket , tore it all down.

Installed all the new equipment and guess who shows up?

PUCO inspector.

Wasn't pissy or anything , but wanted to know if I pulled
a permit (which I did) and if so when I was getting inspected.

How the heck did he know I was there? There just might be
something to all of this "notify PUCO talk...hmmm


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## flyboy

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


Never in 30 years have I ever wore anything except leather gloves when pulling a meter.


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## Forge Boyz

lighterup said:


> Just as a coincidence...
> 
> I cut OH power to a single phase 240v/100a service today ,
> pulled the meter out of the meter socket , tore it all down.
> 
> Installed all the new equipment and guess who shows up?
> 
> PUCO inspector.
> 
> Wasn't pissy or anything , but wanted to know if I pulled
> a permit (which I did) and if so when I was getting inspected.
> 
> How the heck did he know I was there? There just might be
> something to all of this "notify PUCO talk...hmmm


Was it a Firstenergy company? I had a conversation about pulling meters with one of their trouble guys and he told me it's ok to pull a meter, but with smart meters they will know and will expect to be contacted about it.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## matt1124

lighterup said:


> Just as a coincidence...
> 
> I cut OH power to a single phase 240v/100a service today ,
> pulled the meter out of the meter socket , tore it all down.
> 
> Installed all the new equipment and guess who shows up?
> 
> PUCO inspector.
> 
> Wasn't pissy or anything , but wanted to know if I pulled
> a permit (which I did) and if so when I was getting inspected.
> 
> How the heck did he know I was there? There just might be
> something to all of this "notify PUCO talk...hmmm


The ones they use here have a “last gasp” RF transmission; “oh crap someone just yanked me ou.......”


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## trentonmakes

flyboy said:


> Never in 30 years have I ever wore anything except leather gloves when pulling a meter.
> 
> View attachment 127552


Just started with a new company, last one I never pulled a meter or spliced the service drops.

Today, I got to pull/replace my first meter. I was a little concerned, as all I had were my fingerless gloves, but it went smoothly.

I know its a pretty routine task, but was pretty cool they trusted me to do it and get that experience under my belt.

When asked to do it, I did tell them I have not done it before but he had to leave for another job. Lol. Ok...time to earn that paycheck[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]




Texting and Driving


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## lighterup

trentonmakes said:


> Just started with a new company, last one I never pulled a meter or spliced the service drops.
> 
> Today, I got to pull/replace my first meter. I was a little concerned, as all I had were my fingerless gloves, but it went smoothly.
> 
> I know its a pretty routine task, but was pretty cool they trusted me to do it and get that experience under my belt.
> 
> When asked to do it, I did tell them I have not done it before but he had to leave for another job. Lol. Ok...time to earn that paycheck[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texting and Driving


Similar experience.

The 1st EC i worked for...never cut service drops or pulled meters.
always had it pre arranged for PUCO to cut power & pull meter.

Fast forward...I move on to 2nd EC i worked for.
By then , I was in trade about 2-1/2 years. went to 2nd 
EC employment for more diversity and learning opportunities
and the first week I'm there , he sends me out on a service
upgrade.
Problem was ... I got there and power's still on ..meter still in.

I call boss .."boss..power's still on . meter's still in"

He responds like Archie Bunker tone..." wellll Billl, cut the 
powah offfff"....

I respond..."uhhh..who me?"...to which he responds with
a gasp and a "jeeeeezzzzz".

He came out and showed me how it was done.:vs_laugh:


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## trentonmakes

lighterup said:


> Similar experience.
> 
> The 1st EC i worked for...never cut service drops or pulled meters.
> always had it pre arranged for PUCO to cut power & pull meter.
> 
> Fast forward...I move on to 2nd EC i worked for.
> By then , I was in trade about 2-1/2 years. went to 2nd
> EC employment for more diversity and learning opportunities
> and the first week I'm there , he sends me out on a service
> upgrade.
> Problem was ... I got there and power's still on ..meter still in.
> 
> I call boss .."boss..power's still on . meter's still in"
> 
> He responds like Archie Bunker tone..." wellll Billl, cut the
> powah offfff"....
> 
> I respond..."uhhh..who me?"...to which he responds with
> a gasp and a "jeeeeezzzzz".
> 
> He came out and showed me how it was done.:vs_laugh:


Ya wuss! Lol

I'd probaly done the same though.[emoji106]

1st EC, I was with for a little over a year. We did a few service upgrades though. I've seen it done a number of times, but never done it myself. 

Having never witnessed it done,I doubt I would of done it alone.

I left for same reasons, mainly hours and more experience/oppurtunity. 1st company was good and I learned alot but I had to fight at times to learn and get the experience and figure/learn things on my own.

Picked up a few things on this site as well[emoji106]

One interesting thing I noticed is, I will see/read a thread here and within a week I am doing the work discussed in the thread!


Texting and Driving


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## jkvas

MDShunk said:


> During hours, I try to. After hours, I do what I gotta do and call the next day.


What happens when you call the next day? Are you forgiven or fined?


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## jkvas

lighterup said:


> Similar experience.
> 
> The 1st EC i worked for...never cut service drops or pulled meters.
> always had it pre arranged for PUCO to cut power & pull meter.
> 
> Fast forward...I move on to 2nd EC i worked for.
> By then , I was in trade about 2-1/2 years. went to 2nd
> EC employment for more diversity and learning opportunities
> and the first week I'm there , he sends me out on a service
> upgrade.
> Problem was ... I got there and power's still on ..meter still in.
> 
> I call boss .."boss..power's still on . meter's still in"
> 
> He responds like Archie Bunker tone..." wellll Billl, cut the
> powah offfff"....
> 
> I respond..."uhhh..who me?"...to which he responds with
> a gasp and a "jeeeeezzzzz".
> 
> He came out and showed me how it was done.:vs_laugh:


Jeeze, meathead! 😂


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## u2slow

I'll admit I was a bit paranoid with the smart-meter alerting of meter removal.

I took advantage of a lengthy winter power outage to do what I needed (on my own home).


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## Tonedeaf

I never call them......They do get notifications when you pull them...I have had a PECO come out twice in bucks county PA when doing service changes on residences. They are looking for people stealing electric not electricians making repairs.

I pulled a meter today...had to use my barrel lock tool


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## micromind

jkvas said:


> What happens when you call the next day? Are you forgiven or fined?


Since he hasn't posted here in a while, maybe he was shot by the PUCO for pulling a meter..........


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## Galt

Anyone know how this notification system works. could you just pull the bottom blades out and stick a piece of pvc in there.


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## jw0445

It would show no load as if the main breaker was off


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## Galt

I have turned the main off on numerous occasions and had no trouble. But you pull the meter and they know.


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## 460 Delta

Where I live it is pretty much a chilled out mindset. I did a panel swap for a disabled old man who I go to church with. I cut the seal, hinged up the meter out of the load jaws, and slid a 5 gallon paint paddle in holding the meter out but still energized on the line side.
Honestly if I’d pulled it out completely, I’m not sure anyone would care. 
The cutout on the pole across the road from me opened and I woke up to no power along with the neighbor. I had to call AEP and go through the whole process to get a lineman out and re-link the fuse. Two meters should have sent out an alert if they cared to look.


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## Almost Retired

Dispatch35u said:


> How common is it with the RF electronic meters to have to notify the power company before pulling the meter? I specifically referring to the radio equipped meters that are in communication with PC command center


Before those meters i did it all the time, never heard a word, and the seal almost never got replaced.
Now it seems to take about 20 mins for ho to get a call asking about lites out notification
I decided i would never do it again. Tell ho to call it in and get a lineman out


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## knfuller13

I pull them, cut them out of pans, or cut locks off all the time. Never called the poco once. Let me correct that , if I add a new meter in the service I'll call them for line inspection to get the new additional meter issued. I have had meter readers show up while I'm working and they just tell me they will come back to read it when I'm done.


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## Buck Parrish Electric

Anathera said:


> Anyone had experience with duke energy after pulling their meters? I'm tempted to pop one just to see what would happen


They act different depending on where you are at. I've pulled Dukes meters in NC and Indiana. I've done service upgrades with no permits no inspection at all, Then Duke turns it back on. . Then Duke in other locations want an inspection if you do very little.


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## SomeJoe

We do about 15 panel upgrades per week, SoCal Edison doesn't require a shutdown unless it's in a certain part of the county.
SDG&E is a must, otherwise they show up real quick.

Shutdowns in the areas I work in are required because of so many unqualified workers that have died due to not being able to handle unprotected ungrounded service wires, puts a damper on the rest of us that now have to schedule 4 parties for upgrade.
1. Utility
2. City inspection the same day (need to pass or no re-connect by utility)
3. Our crews
4. Homeowner

If city inspection doesn't pass, we're having to bring generator to get the homeowner through the next day as it's on us. 
Inspectors normally look for grounding and panel in, they don't mind branch not landed because they understand it's a fast paced job and they need to call utility to come back in time to re-energize in the evening before they go home.


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## joe-nwt

Galt said:


> I have turned the main off on numerous occasions and had no trouble. But you pull the meter and they know.


 Turn the main off and the meter can still talk to the mother ship.


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## SomeJoe

Speaking with numerous pole monkeys and they shared with me that there is a master meter that collect data from the other meters near by, problem is you never know which is the main communicator.
A main meter normally handles between 5 to 10 other meters and reports back to the monopoly


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## Galt

Our homes are about 1/2 to 1 mile apart.


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## Djea3

Tampa area here, never had to notify POCO about any meter pull. I have never heard of any service or inspection personnel showing up to look.
Once I had to pull the jaws on a meter can because the main breaker would explode when energized. When I arrived the maintenance guy was really freaked out and had a lot of singed hair. Never figured out what the problem actually was...but I was sure glad I was wearing gloves, the fireball came out through the closed breaker enclosure when the main was turned on! New jaws, no problem. Luckily I had them on the truck!. We wound up changing the entire meter bank within a week or so. 
I have done quite a few panel changes and removed the meters for them. Usually I have it set up for the service cables to be in the new panel within 30-60 minutes...then the meter goes back in and the new main breaker can control the panel. No biggie. I would never leave the meter our very long though...certainly not overnight.


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## Dennis Alwon

Galt said:


> I have turned the main off on numerous occasions and had no trouble. But you pull the meter and they know.



Is that a surprise? The meter is on the line side of the main so the signal is being sent. I don't think the lack of load has anything to do with it as stated earlier.


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## Texan77

flyboy said:


> Never in 30 years have I ever wore anything except leather gloves when pulling a meter.
> 
> View attachment 127552


That’s very disturbing


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## matt1124

Texan77 said:


> That’s very disturbing


Yeah who wants to see their electrician in nothing but gloves and a smile


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## paulengr

CERTAIN meter designs have notorious but rare arc flash issues.






EPRI has been looking into it for a while.

The problem isn’t the voltage or current. It’s that the sockets are shaped in a way that concentrates and directs the arc flash at you, if one happens.

This is the one time where it’s best to just let the lineman do the job.


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## Slay301

just put on some gloves pull the load side wires
Off the meter and leave the meter In that way it stays on you change your panel every one is happy


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## kurtbelyeu

Zog said:


> Because burns suck, recovery from an arc flash burn is perhaps the most long drawn out painful things one can experience.
> 
> Go visit a burn unit , I dare you, it will change the way you think about things.


The last Arc Flash safety course I took we had an instructor that knew from experience... he was in the hospital for 6 months due to all his burns.. scary.


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## VELOCI3

Zog said:


> I hope you guys are wearing arc flash PPE when pulling meters


I worked on the original transmitting meter rollout in southern NY. Did live swaps under load of about 5000 meters over 2 years. I had one flash out on me and Swiss cheesed my arc jacket. It was an underground fed meter on a house with no expansion fitting and improper backfill. There was so much downward pressure on the line wires that when I pulled the meter the 2 line jaws and neutral broke free and blasted through the box.

Another time I smashed my hand through the glass smacking the face to get it in the last half inch. 

Wear PPE. It only takes one time


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## poncho144

MDShunk said:


> They can yell if they want to, but the bottom line is that, unless you're stealing power, you're not doing anything wrong. The very worst thing they can do is require a service inspection again. They use the old line "meter tampering is illegal", which is technically sorta right and sorta wrong. Tampering with the meter to make it read improperly or bypassing it is illegal. Removing it and reinstalling it is not tampering. There has to be theft or an attempt at theft for it to be illegal. I'll never let some grumpy pole monkey tell me what I can and can't do.


Pole Monkey....ha ha..called lotsa stuff when aw wuz a wanna be pole jocky but dat one I really like!


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## poncho144

VELOCI3 said:


> I worked on the original transmitting meter rollout in southern NY. Did live swaps under load of about 5000 meters over 2 years. I had one flash out on me and Swiss cheesed my arc jacket. It was an underground fed meter on a house with no expansion fitting and improper backfill. There was so much downward pressure on the line wires that when I pulled the meter the 2 line jaws and neutral broke free and blasted through the box.
> 
> Another time I smashed my hand through the glass smacking the face to get it in the last half inch.
> 
> Wear PPE. It only takes one time
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah..hada 4 KV breaker blow apart back inna '60's...tri
Trpped whole dam Unit #2...flames...smoke....alarms....emergency horn screaming....I called the Control Room holler'n to git the f..k'n Main Fire Dept here ASAP..Pronto...HTFU....I wuz extremely LUCKY....now a days when mess'n 'round dem dare 4KV's yous betta be suited up....!!


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## matt1124

Eaton loadcenters have been coming with these smart meter anti-reporting cards. Have you guys seen or used them yet?


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## Forge Boyz

matt1124 said:


> View attachment 162836
> 
> Eaton loadcenters have been coming with these smart meter anti-reporting cards. Have you guys seen or used them yet?


I think the other brands have them as well. That is all fine and dandy until you want to change the cable going out of the meterbase. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## matt1124

Forge Boyz said:


> I think the other brands have them as well. That is all fine and dandy until you want to change the cable going out of the meterbase.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It was too short but some crimp splices and heat shrink fixed that right up too


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## Ty the electric guy

matt1124 said:


> View attachment 162836
> 
> Eaton loadcenters have been coming with these smart meter anti-reporting cards. Have you guys seen or used them yet?


How did you get the cover off without removing the meter? Or do the American meter bases not have covers?


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## Texan77

Ty the electric guy said:


> How did you get the cover off without removing the meter? Or do the American meter bases not have covers?


It’s a ringless meter can. Meter goes in first, then the cover holds it in.


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## matt1124

Texan77 said:


> It’s a ringless meter can. Meter goes in first, then the cover holds it in.


Yeah, can’t do this little trick with the ring type. That very rarely comes up. I’d say a good 1/3 of them are in the brooks A-base adapter, you can’t tip those out but you can un-wire the load side with an insulated screw driver.


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## Ty the electric guy

Ok. Cool. Definitely don’t have those in my area. I’ve actually never seen one before. Our power company specifies the model of meter base required and I can’t see them approving something like that.


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## radio208

I have a couple of questions regarding ringless meter enclosers.Meter goes on first then cover...makes sense...but if you remove the cover, is there a micro switch on the frontside under the cover to send a trouble signal to the office for tampering? And also can't you access the line-side before the meter without pulling it? Just wondering...


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## poncho144

The Utility Company WILL receive a Tampering Signal IF you attempt to disturb ANYTHING related to Meter period.
Dat be'in said though, I've never been privy to any soul being prosecuted for said actions.
Just say'n....


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## radio208

The reason I asked, here in P&GE land -you can't have access to anything above the barrier between the meter and disconnect-load center area. Thanks for the reply.


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## matt1124

For those that have never seen, this is a ringless horn-bypass socket. There’s no tamper switch. You can somewhat access the lugs but not really. Each lug has a little prong on it for bypass with basically jumper cables, a cheaper version of what a bypass lever would do.


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## matt1124

If you have ever wondered what’s inside, here’s a smart meter from AEP territory. It’s had its radio card removed because of, uh, reasons… it plugs on to those header pins at the top of the green board, there’s different ones available depending on the network.

On the base you can see the 200A solid state relay, which does in fact make a sound when it closes, and the little CTs below it.

I’ve yet to notice a tilt switch or shock sensor in these…


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## poncho144

Looks Russian made, right?


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## esmithw.es

Dispatch35u said:


> thanks for the reply's. I probably should have explained my situation. I'm a retired journeyman electrician, 37 years industrial with Chrysler Corp and then 10 years residential working for a friends company. I have retired to Myrtle Beach South Carolina and want to change the service panel in my home. Santee Cooper has recently installed Gridstream RF meters. I've looked into getting a contractors license here but its more time and money than I want to spend for one job. Like I said, I'm retired and not looking to go into business.


 Santee Cooper are not very understanding about pulling a meter. I just pulled one yesterday and he hit me with you're going to get a fine for doing that and asked me for me info. I pulled it because I had to move a service panel and disconnect the main lines. I had no idea I was suppose to call or anything. He made a huge deal about it.


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## esmithw.es

I mean in all reality there is nothing that states plain as day that you can't pull the meter at least I didn't see anything. Mind you this is in like a travel park with rvs, campers, and park model trailers. We have to take old ones out and bring new ones in. Apparently the meter sends a notification to the power company though lol. Whoops. Again I didn't know, but now I do. I don't think i should be fined or possibly lose my job. Like have some heart/sympathy/empathy and realize I truly didn't know I wasn't allowed to do that and stop being a boy scout/douche.


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## Almost Retired

my poco says the meter belongs to them (they do furnish it)
i cannot pull it anymore (used to i could and save a lineman a trip, which poco loved)
i think i could be charged with tampering with private property and 
theft of services, which is a big deal now
poco now has a position for "meter man" if you need just the meter pulled, he shows up, puts on the arc flash gear and then puts in a plastic blank and reseals it
if you talk to him nice and he isnt busy he will wait for you to change the wires or panel, etc. then put the meter back and reseal it
otherwise you have to call for a disconnect and the lineman will take the meter with him and reseal it when he puts it back later

before the radio meters, if they found one that had the seal cut every time it was read, they would put a lock on the cover


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## poncho144

Simply install Breakers between Meter an Main Panels.


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## Djea3

Almost Retired said:


> i think i could be charged with tampering with private property and
> theft of services, which is a big deal now
> 
> before the radio meters, if they found one that had the seal cut every time it was read, they would put a lock on the cover


The entire idea that an electrician should not remove a meter is insanity. There is no tampering and no theft of service involved. It is the same as pulling a breaker (or shutting off the main) for all intent and purpose. Hell, the good guys at POCO used to give keys to EC's so they could unlock the locks on meter cans and not have to call at all!

Does POCO have any idea how many jaws are burned and need replaced? DO they understand that burned jaws can destroy their precious Smart Meter? The CAN itself is the property of the homeowner, not POCO. In FL the customer is responsible for the lines from the drop down the weather head and or the lines underground all the way to the transformer depending upon county. I understand that EC's should not be opening transformers, but WTH? stupidity to increase the maintenance costs by requiring disconnect or pulling of meter by a utility employee instead of an EC.

BTW, the only PPE I have seen used by POCO are gloves and glasses, not even a full face PPE. I have those on the truck!


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## joe-nwt

Djea3 said:


> The entire idea that an electrician should not remove a meter is insanity. There is no tampering and no theft of service involved. It is the same as pulling a breaker (or shutting off the main) for all intent and purpose. Hell, the good guys at POCO used to give keys to EC's so they could unlock the locks on meter cans and not have to call at all!
> 
> Does POCO have any idea how many jaws are burned and need replaced? DO they understand that burned jaws can destroy their precious Smart Meter? The CAN itself is the property of the homeowner, not POCO. In FL the customer is responsible for the lines from the drop down the weather head and or the lines underground all the way to the transformer depending upon county. I understand that EC's should not be opening transformers, but WTH? stupidity to increase the maintenance costs by requiring disconnect or pulling of meter by a utility employee instead of an EC.
> 
> BTW, the only PPE I have seen used by POCO are gloves and glasses, not even a full face PPE. I have those on the truck!


It's all about liability. The meter is their property. If it blew up in your face, who would you blame?


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## Almost Retired

my poco carries and is required to use glasses, face shield, long gloves, and apron every time
even the meter guy carries and dons it
i have seen him do it


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## Almost Retired

Djea3 said:


> The entire idea that an electrician should not remove a meter is insanity. There is no tampering and no theft of service involved. It is the same as pulling a breaker (or shutting off the main) for all intent and purpose. Hell, the good guys at POCO used to give keys to EC's so they could unlock the locks on meter cans and not have to call at all!
> 
> Does POCO have any idea how many jaws are burned and need replaced? DO they understand that burned jaws can destroy their precious Smart Meter? The CAN itself is the property of the homeowner, not POCO. In FL the customer is responsible for the lines from the drop down the weather head and or the lines underground all the way to the transformer depending upon county. I understand that EC's should not be opening transformers, but WTH? stupidity to increase the maintenance costs by requiring disconnect or pulling of meter by a utility employee instead of an EC.
> 
> BTW, the only PPE I have seen used by POCO are gloves and glasses, not even a full face PPE. I have those on the truck!


agreed
but you over looked that you used the words insanity and stupidity
and you forgot the word liability


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## Djea3

Almost Retired said:


> agreed
> but you over looked that you used the words insanity and stupidity
> and you forgot the word liability


The likleyhood of an arc flash is extremely small, actually infinitesimally small when the main is shut. In our area I have seen meters removed with pool pumps, AC, and every other high draw circuit running. POCO does not turn off customer mains if they are not located next to the meter, especially if customer is not home. I have seen dozens of analogue replaced with smart meters this way. How many times have I opened a meter can to find a burnt jaw or aluminum wire or broken copper? I have even found burnt contacts on the meters.
I can not really see any liability at all to POCO. The reason is that the HOUSE owns all the equipment and wire EXCEPT the meter and, at least here, customer is required to maintain even POCO landed wires at customer expense. Can not maintain what you can not open and inspect. 
What part caused the Arc/flash? As professional we as a rule have to take responsibility for our own work.

The last time I called POCO for a disconnect for panel change out (underground service) that required resetting the meter can as the conduit had sunken and pulled loose from the can. They told me it would be approximately 5 weeks to make the DC. WE PULLED THE METER AND FOUND BROKEN ALUMINUM CONDUCTORS. Poco came and DC'd INSTANTLY. Never said a word about the meter! Which is it? Arrest me or thank me?

OPTIONAL READING:
Mam, I have traced the problem to either one leg of your wiring at the meter, the meter can or jaws or the meter itself. I'm not allowed to open that meter. Here is your bill for $XXX for troubleshooting the problem. Would you like me to call POCO and schedule to return at that time?
No Mam, unless the Meter is bad they will turn off your power to allow inspection and repair. We call them back to turn on power when we are finished. Yes Mam, this means you could be without power for an undetermined amount of time. Yes Mam, this means there will be another service call fee.

Customer decides to live with constant brown out on one leg....house burns down a week later. Whose liability should that be? 
OUR FIRST responsibility is to safety. Should we call the city and have the OC revoked until fixed? There are no such requirements or even such a process that I know of.


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## Almost Retired

you are preaching to the choir 
i agree with everything you just said,

when ppl call with light probs, i tell them call poco first, they are free, then call me
around here if a HO calls and says my lights went out
a lineman will be there in an hour usually, they consider it an emergency and the call out guy takes it (24/7)

scheduled DC's other small stuff there is the day crew: mon thru thurs 8-5 and fri 12pm .... maybe this week or next
something actually needs adding to beefing up, or is any job bigger than one man, construction crew, couple of weeks

my point was poco is insane and stupid and desperately trying to avoid liability
nobody uses common sense

just a few yrs ago when there was a local office that i could drive up to and talk to a person about scheduling a DC
i could get a lineman in a few hours
if all i wanted was the meter pulled, they actually said why cant you do that?

closing that office to the public probably saved them maybe 3 employees who dealt with the public
everyone else is still there, but they have no control over where they go, what they do, or when

every vehicle has an online laptop, active gps, and a camera in the cab, no one is allowed to do anything without a work order being issued from the statewide office


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