# Lighting control system issue



## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Heres the situation:

My clients house is across the street from the beach ( I only mention this so anyone with a salt corrosion theory can toss out an idea), there is no switches in the house it has a Vantage InFusion lighting control system, at random times in different rooms lights flicker (its about a 7500 sq ft house) example the lights in the dining room may be fine but the sconce's in the stairwell may flicker or get dim then bright and repeat, or the kitchen may flicker, the most recent complaint was a light that was not turned on just turned on nobody touched the keypad just bam light turned on for no reason. 
I am not the low voltage contractor or programmer I am the regular electrician I have been told this is an electrical issue not a "Vantage" issue, so what can the issue be electrically??

I have tied loads that flicker directly to the hot and neutral feeding the Vantage module and when tied to power the issue does not occur (left lights wirenutted on for 3 days and didnt flicker according to the home owner) when I put them back on the vantage output the load once again acts funny. I have done alot of troubleshooting on the high voltage side and cant find a way to say YES it is an electrical problem here's how I can fix it, all I can come up with is its a vantage problem and if it were a regular switch this wouldnt happen (especially when I was told the light just "turned on"). Can anyone tell me a reason this could happen in a house ond ONLY effect the lighting system?? Noting else 120/240 is effected.

Also its not inrush from any of the A/C's, none of the loads are near overloaded, not inrush from steam unit ect.

**EDIT** Also the bulbs are halogen/incandescent not LED bulbs which have such low resistance the module doesnt know its there and will backfeed it threw a neutral of another load which may be switched on (neutral bus is common for 4 loads) I have delt with that problem in the past and thats not the problem in this house.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

http://www.vantageemea.com/technical/ElectronicLoadDimmerStationELDS4.pdf

page 1 - Neutrals


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

wildleg said:


> http://www.vantageemea.com/technical/ElectronicLoadDimmerStationELDS4.pdf
> 
> page 1 - Neutrals



Yes sir every load has its own switch leg and neutral tightly screwed down to the board, no neutral terminal has more then 1 wire connected and no loads share a neutral. So electrically thats correct already. Could I get a static load even if its wired correctly?? If so how would that be resolved?? As far as I know all the terminal boards Vantage makes has common neutral terminals.
How would this account for a homeowner sitting in bed and a light turning on?? And also the static load thing shouldnt be a problem as they are incandescent bulbs which doesnt usually have a problem with Vantage, it does on low resistance loads like LED's as mentioned in OP.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Also http://dealer.vantagecontrols.com/lib/docs/Dimming Module MDS Series_install.pdf thats the module in question.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I'm not familiar with LV lighting controls. How hard is it to swap outputs and loads to see whether the problem follows the load or stays with a specific output?


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Big John said:


> I'm not familiar with LV lighting controls. How hard is it to swap outputs and loads to see whether the problem follows the load or stays with a specific output?


That is step 1 in troubleshooting these types of systems (especially if your only having problems with 1 load or output), it is very easy to swap loads with the next load over as long as someone is there to reprogram the output, if nobody is there that can reprogram the output the thing to do is to swap the entire module with the next module up or down (most vantage panels have 4 modules with 8-12 outputs each) and see if the problem follows the module.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Am I missing something, did you try that?


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Big John said:


> Am I missing something, did you try that?


Its happening to many many loads at different random times. Yes it has been tried but with other questionable modules (and although I do alot of troubleshooting on these systems touching these modules is not supposed to be done by me), we have been assured the modules are fine and the system is fine and that the problem is electrical I dont believe there is an electrical issue because when tied directly to power the issue never happens, im not looking for how it could be the vantage system im looking for how it could be electrical (it is way past trying to find a solution, I offered many ideas, now its about knowing if there is something on my end that could cause this that I haven't thought of so I dont look like a **** in a meeting). Its down to low volt saying its not the vantage system or programming its me and me saying why does it work without connection to your system.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

example, I was told today that it was occurring because of a neutral maybe arching in a wirenut (which is a generic answer from people who cant troubleshoot), but if that were the case why does it choose to not arch when tied to power without the system?? are arch's becoming selective?


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## GLS (Jul 10, 2011)

"...I have tied loads that flicker directly to the hot and neutral feeding the Vantage module and when tied to power the issue does not occur (left lights wirenutted on for 3 days and didnt flicker according to the home owner) when I put them back on the vantage output the load once again acts funny. I have done alot of troubleshooting on the high voltage side and cant find a way to say YES it is an electrical problem here's how I can fix it, all I can come up with is its a vantage problem and if it were a regular switch this wouldnt happen (especially when I was told the light just "turned on"). Can anyone tell me a reason this could happen in a house ond ONLY effect the lighting system?? Noting else 120/240 is effected." 



I don't know Vantage specifically, but have worked on and programmed Lutron Homeworks and RadioRa/Ra2. I think you have shown by your troubleshooting that the problem is NOT electrical. It sounds like the processor, or whatever runs the Vantage system, is picking up stray signals that it is interpreting as commands. If a light just "comes on" without a button being pressed, that HAS to be in the system itself. Maybe the program is corrupted. Maybe the processor, or module, is bad. The LV contractor is trying to avoid fixing his problem by blaming you.


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

To eliminate the neutral question(electrolysis) plug a beast in the meter socket.If you don't have one call the POCO. If the neutral is OK put a scope on the flickering devices. This should get in the ball park. If the LV guys have a problem,ask them to verify it.


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> the house has a Vantage InFusion lighting control system.



Theirs your problem right there! last one I worked around they couldn't get it to work right either. last I heard they were going to take it out and replace with a Light touch system.


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## JBrzoz00 (Nov 17, 2013)

Is it a possibility its getting some kind of rf thing messing with it? Like a cell tower close???


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## Clarky (Sep 25, 2011)

I have a customer that has a Lutron Home works system, over the years some of the connections [ which are stranded maybe 14 wire] have loosened up, check every one! They are under a very small screw terminal, doesn't take much ' Is there a main "brain' that interfaces with control modules?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

It works when their system is taken out of the equation, doesn't work when their system is part of the equation. 2+2=4. Seems like you've already troubleshot the problem to me. Time to dig your heels in and be an a$$ if necessary sounds to me like.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Even if there is some sort of RF interference ... Their problem, not yours.


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## Andy17 (May 12, 2014)

Salt air ruins electronics. I'm assuming there is an electronic board or more as part of the system. If the system is around 5 years old, this could be the reason for the problem. Main board probably. If it's a new system, check and see if the house was built on an old Indian barial ground!


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## westcojack (Dec 2, 2011)

Was the cause of the problem ever discovered, how was it fixed???


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