# removing the meter tamper tag



## Power21

Fellas, so hypothetically speaking, if a customer doesn't want a heavy up just a new panel installed, and "someone" was to just go ahead and cut the tag, pull the meter, and replace the panel. Does anyone have any bad experiences or advice on this subject? Oh and the reason for not wanting to pull a permit... The owner has a ton of work going on without OF COURSE a building permit and is scared of an inspector coming in and shutting him down.

Thanks, guys. Hope everyone's doing well out there.

P.S. the replies to the "price quotes" questions are HILARIOUS!!


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## McClary’s Electrical

Power21 said:


> Fellas, so hypothetically speaking, if a customer doesnt want a heavy up just a new panel installed, and "someone" was to just go ahead cut the tag, pull the meter and replace the panel. Anyone have any bad experiences or advice to this subject. Oh and reason for not wanting to pull a permit... Owner has a ton of work going on without OF COURSE a building permit and is scared of a inspector coming in and shutting him down.
> 
> Thanks guys. Hope everyones doing well out there.
> 
> P.S. the replies to the "price quotes" questions are HILARIOUS!!


 

Around here, there's one power company that monitors that through signals. Unplug the meter, and they show up about 20 minutes later. Better be a quick service change.


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## Geoff C

Old boss used to use the "had to do emergency power down" excuse.

Why that would involve pulling the meter is beyond me, he also had us do our own hookups so...


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## wildleg

it's your neck. do what you want.


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## JohnR

Hypothetically speaking, I wouldn't do it with a digital meter. but if I did, I think it would be proper to make a call to the metering div to let them know that they need to apply another tag. 

No inspector, they don't need to know why you had to shut it down. 
But that is here,, not there. Don't know your area.
:whistling2: my *theory* of course.


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## Toronto Sparky

Smart meters will send signal (or more like NOT send a signal) within the hour and they will know there is no power at your meter.. The only way to get around it is to wait for a power failure in the neighbourhood before you pull meter and hope it stays off for a while..  Personally.. I would get a permit.. Just think about all those guys that installed FPE panels and had the house catch fire. (Installer almost always gets blamed first)


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## Power21

*Thanks guys*

hmmmm... I def never thought about a disconnected meter sending (or not sending!) a signal. Good looking out fellas. I decided to pull a permit and just wait a while until all the work inside the house is completed to call for a final. :thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150

Good call... I would always do a service change with a permit - its your ass on the line. I guess PG&E could care less if the meter has power or not, I did a service upgrade with a digital meter about 2 weeks ago, Pulled it and replaced the main breaker enclosure and noone showed up.

~Matt


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## brian john

I cut seals as necessary, I DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS DO THIS, in my area it has never been a big issue (or at least overlooked), I often see meters and CT cabinets without seals. I know different utilities take this very serious.

Lately two utilities in our area have gone to padlocks.


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## 480sparky

I'm fortunate enough to have a lineman friend. He supplies me with extra tamper locks. So whenever I need to pull a meter, I can relock it w/o the POCO having to worry about it.


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## kbsparky

We have several utilities in this area. One of them gets real anal if you cut a seal/pull a meter. Sometimes takes days to get an appointment for them to do it.

The other one says if you're a licensed electrician, you have the authority to do it, just call `em and let `em know so they can reseal it later.


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## Buck Parrish

kbsparky;
said:


> We have several utilities in this area. One of them gets real anal if you cut a seal/pull a meter. Sometimes takes days to The other one says if you're a licensed electrician, you have the authority to do it, just call `em and let `em know so they can reseal it later.


 
That's how it is in our aea. 
If your licensed and expierienced some times you need to pull the meter to see if the problem is on the utilities side or in the building.

Nobody read me my rights!

 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cornpatch USA
Posts: 12,173 










I'm fortunate enough to have a lineman friend. He supplies me with extra tamper locks. So whenever I need to pull a meter, I can relock it w/o the POCO having to worry about it.


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## frenchelectrican

I am pretty much the same thing with 480sparky as well I have few extra meter seal with me but the only one I will not touch is red meter seal that I will have to talk to POCO first due some customer did not pay the bill or other issue going on.

Simauir to France as well but I keep Red/White tag as well for lockout on the fuse cutoff point on the post.

Merci.
Marc


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## Bkessler

I've twice had people who didn't want permits get "caught", both in the same city. Anaheim, they own their own utility and their meter readers will rat you out. Once a little old lady had to get permits, and pay a small fine. One guy told them to f off, and dared them to shut off his power after they threatened to, they went away.


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## electricmanscott

brian john said:


> I cut seals as necessary, I DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS DO THIS, in my area it has never been a big issue (or at least overlooked), I often see meters and CT cabinets without seals.


Same here. I have never had a problem.


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## jwjrw

Our poco has never gave me any problem about pulling meters. I do it all the time. Permit or not. Like 480 said what if you have to check the neutral in the meter can on the load side? You could pull a smart meter here and poco wouldn't show up till you called them for a no power complaint.


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## den

Not a problem here. I have extra seals for some meters but will usually call just to get the ok. Our digital meters will record an outage but the poco doesnt download them for around 2 weeks at a time so that is a non-issue. Just don't break the seal on the meter glass!!


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## Shockdoc

pulling meters and tags??? Ive got a job thats been sitting two months now with triplex feeding directly into the panel while the stucco guys do their thing. Thank god its been a cash transaction with no paper work...


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## MarkyMark

In the Progress Energy service requirements manual, it says...

_"When a licensed electrical contractor removes a Company Seal, said contractor shall replace the seal with a tie wrap type with a tab displaying the contractor's name and contact number, and the contractor shall notify the Company in a timely manner."_

...but I have never heard of anyone actually doing any of that. Duke Energy has similar wording in their manual, and I have never seen anybody do anything other than put the cut tag back on.


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## wildleg

we have a couple pocos that are very particular about tags (especially on CT cabinets)


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## bobelectric

I got nabbed once on meter reading day.They took the meter as hostage until the inspector came out. The power company sent a line crew out to reconnect service ,and turfed up the yard.The owner insisted that they landscape the damage!

Good Memories!


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## MF Dagger

We cut them all the time here in Minnesota. Never had any problems with it. I usually just hang the old tag off of it when I'm done.


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## MF Dagger

bobelectric said:


> They took the meter as hostage until the inspector came out.
> Good Memories!


I've been real leery about where I set the meter in certain neighborhoods. Some parts of town the meter stays in the basement with me or in the locked truck.


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## Electric_Light

Around here, tags 480sparky have are no good. Each tag is individually serialized.


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## jwjrw

Electric_Light said:


> Around here, tags 480sparky have are no good. Each tag is individually serialized.


 
Now that is crazy. We have the same tags as in 480's pictures. No serial numbers! Been cutting them off for years.


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## 480sparky

Electric_Light said:


> Around here, tags 480sparky have are no good. Each tag is individually serialized.


Good thing I don't live around here. :laughing:


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## BuzzKill

MF Dagger said:


> We cut them all the time here in Minnesota. Never had any problems with it. I usually just hang the old tag off of it when I'm done.


not a huge deal here either, but with the change-over to digital meters going on here, they might "radio home" that something is amiss, don't know.


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## RIVETER

I suppose that if you did not have a proper license it would be tempting to do without. Waiting for a power outage is time consuming though. That's old school but my favorite service change was after an F2 tornado.


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## Electric_Light

Shockdoc said:


> pulling meters and tags??? Ive got a job thats been sitting two months now with triplex feeding directly into the panel while the stucco guys do their thing. Thank god its been a* cash transaction with no paper work...*


IMHO keeping a proper record documentation is part of being a pro. Doing off the record to avoid paying taxes and other liabilities associated with it is stopping down to business practice of Craigslist hacks.

I think illegal marijuana cultivation is quite common and I suppose its quite "socially acceptable". Knowing many people working in construction who use it and are big supporters, it isn't all that surprising to see some collaboration between "contractor friends" and growers to help steal power from the PoCo. 



bobelectric said:


> I got nabbed once on meter reading day.*They took the meter as hostage* until the inspector came out. The power company sent a line crew out to reconnect service ,and turfed up the yard.The owner insisted that they landscape the damage!
> 
> Good Memories!


This must have been in an area where power theft is rampant. The meter probably went back to their shop to check for calibration tampering. The customer would have been F'd if it read shorter than allowable tolerance. Somewhere in the utility's fine print, there's something about retroactive billing in the event of instrumentation error, so they'll go back through the system, then bill the customer the difference between cumulative kWh read and calculated kWh based on offset.



Its PoCos sacred territory. It's their bread and butter. Can't blame them for not wanting it invaded or touched, just as a shop owner wouldn't want renovation guy or service tech accessing their cash registers unsupervised.

Where's the option for connecting arcwelder cables, then connecting a crowbar on the other ends to "blow something out" on the upsteam of meter, then do the work before they restore it?

Smart meter may call each power outage home and their software might flag it as suspicious if its the only house on the block to have an outage.


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## RJ on Tilt

*Meter Tags and Power Companies*

The fact that the house electrical power signal is lost at the meter should not be a big deal, unless it is out for a long time. If you restore power in a half hour or so, it could just be someone flipping the main breaker. 

The tamper signal probably is sent after the meter is reinstalled, but I am not sure. 

Does anyone really know what is in the minds of the power company. :jester:


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## Shockdoc

I wouldn't worry about it. I often just tape the sh*t out of the hot wires and swap panels live in laziness of walking around to the meter. There is a way to back out the meter seals by placing sidecutters against flat plastic surface. Lightly bite into metal wire and back out 1/4" at a time.


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## RJ on Tilt

Shockdoc said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. I often just tape the sh*t out of the hot wires and swap panels live in laziness of walking around to the meter. There is a way to back out the meter seals by placing sidecutters against flat plastic surface. Lightly bite into metal wire and back out 1/4" at a time.


Nothing like a NY state of mind..:thumbup:


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## Speedy Petey

Nothing like resurrecting a two year old thread with a post like this.


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