# Quick Question About Unions.



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Seems like a simple question that any union guy could answer. Why the crickets?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Okay, lets see if I can muddle through this. The shops here are either union, or open. Union contractors are signatories to the unions. Meaning, they only hire through the hall. They send a list of jobs to the hall, and the hall posts them as "job calls". Whoever shows up to dispatch gets to pick from or reject a call from the daily calls.
Signatories can't "hire off the streets", we call that "scabbing". It's the locals responsibility to provide all the manpower needed for a project.
Members can't just walk onto a job-site and expect to be put to work, there's a protocol. They have to be dispatched.
If there's no work in the area, JW's can "travel" to other locals who have work. 
The contractor only provides OJT, the NJATC (National apprenticeship training) provides schooling.
If a union member does take a non-union job (in a related field), they risk losing their pension, and bene's.
I think that about covers it.


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## Pete E (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks for that...Just one more question...

It seems a Union member could be out of work because of the Union system ie the member won't look for work on a non Union site..If that's the case does the member receive any "unemployment" type benefit to tide them over? Either from the State or the Union itself?


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## icdubois (Nov 16, 2013)

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Pete E said:


> Thanks for that...Just one more question...
> 
> It seems a Union member could be out of work because of the Union system ie the member won't look for work on a non Union site..If that's the case does the member receive any "unemployment" type benefit to tide them over? Either from the State or the Union itself?


Normally you can receive unemployment benefits if your laid off or have received a reduction in force. You can try to work in a non union shop with or without the halls approval. With the halls approval it’s called salting. You get a salt letter from your BA stating that they know your working non union. Normally they do this with hopes of turning the shop into a union contractor. Some times they allow it when there’s no work and you need to put food on the table. The other way is with out the halls approval. As stated this is risky and can cause you to loose a lot.


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## Pete E (Jan 2, 2018)

Seems like the idea of "Salting" is a pragmatic approach that realises people need to earn a wage....Like anything it could be open to abuse, but its good to know their is a possible safety net out there if needs be...

Over here things are radically different and the Unions simply don't have that sort hold/relationship on the labour market and in deed "closed shops" ie jobs that require compulsory Union membership for employment have been illegal for a number of years now...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Okay, lets see if I can muddle through this. The shops here are either union, or open. Union contractors are signatories to the unions. Meaning, they only hire through the hall. They send a list of jobs to the hall, and the hall posts them as "job calls". Whoever shows up to dispatch gets to pick from or reject a call from the daily calls.
> *Signatories can't "hire off the streets", we call that "scabbing". It's the locals responsibility to provide all the manpower needed for a project.
> Members can't just walk onto a job-site and expect to be put to work, there's a protocol. They have to be dispatched.*
> If there's no work in the area, JW's can "travel" to other locals who have work.
> ...


We can hire off the streets but have to send the man to the hall, depending on their licenses and experience will depend on how the hall handles them and members can solicit jobs but must be hired at Foreman's scale, sit out for two weeks and a few other things.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Pete E said:


> Seems like the idea of "Salting" is a pragmatic approach that realises people need to earn a wage....


More like trying to talk your wife into letting you have a girlfriend while she's pregnant. Much more common to just collect unemployment if there's down time between jobs.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

brian john said:


> We can hire off the streets but have to send the man to the hall, depending on their licenses and experience will depend on how the hall handles them and members can solicit jobs but must be hired at Foreman's scale, sit out for two weeks and a few other things.


Are you talking about book 3? What do the JW's on book 1 think about a "new guy" getting hired off the street, while they're waiting to be dispatched?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Are you talking about book 3? What do the JW's on book 1 think about a "new guy" getting hired off the street, while they're waiting to be dispatched?


Since we are starved for manpower and the hall cannot get all the men contractors need everyone is content. We are a growing local and work is good while we have had a few lulls, for the most part, my 47 years in the trade have been balls to the wall here.

If you snatch up all the good open shopmen, you will have weaker open shops and a stronger union. 

.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

brian john said:


> Since we are starved for manpower and the hall cannot get all the men contractors need everyone is content. We are a growing local and work is good while we have had a few lulls, for the most part, my 47 years in the trade have been balls to the wall here.
> 
> If you snatch up all the good open shopmen, you will have weaker open shops and a stronger union.
> 
> .


Do you guys have _any_ organizers? How many JW's are on your book 1?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

> Signatories can't "hire off the streets", we call that "scabbing".


That's the opposite of what I've ever heard. I've only heard of Union guys going to work non-union called that. Doing your own thing is sometimes called Lumping. 

To the OP. Some locals have a supplemental unemployment fund and some a vacation fund. Different taxes apply to the two methods. Normally the state unemployment benefits last six months. If the economy is real bad there may also be a federal extension. There is also stipulations on taking money from your annuity plan. There are heavy penalties for going into your retirement (annuity), but desperate times call for desperate measures. You can also borrow against your annuity. 

Personally I would ramp up bandit electric before I worked for someone else non-union. Although that would be the same as working non-union. 


"Are you talking about book 3? What do the JW's on book 1 think about a "new guy" getting hired off the street, while they're waiting to be dispatched?"

They wouldn't be hired off the street if there were guys on book one, or if the guys on book one were willing to work.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

joebanana said:


> It's the locals responsibility to provide all the manpower needed for a project.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

I almost fell off my chair and spit my coffee out. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a LONG time

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

BDB said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> I almost fell off my chair and spit my coffee out. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a LONG time
> 
> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


Splain?


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

joebanana said:


> Splain?



Besides the Union not furnishing men when needed like you say is their responsibility, there is nothing else to explain


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

BDB said:


> Besides the Union not furnishing men when needed like you say is their responsibility, there is nothing else to explain


I'm still not following your position. When/why doesn't the hall furnish manpower? Is it because they _refuse to,_ or because they don't have it? Maybe they need an organizer.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Pete E said:


> Over here things are radically different and the Unions simply don't have that sort hold/relationship on the labour market and in deed "closed shops" ie jobs that require compulsory Union membership for employment have been illegal for a number of years now...


We have some “right to work states” where it’s illegal here too.


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