# Chandeliers on winches need power solution



## mrpugowski (Jun 10, 2007)

We have 12 Chandeliers installed in the atrium of a major shopping centre all hang on power operated winches that lower them to the floor for servicing.
Each light has one power point and the light must be unplugged releasing the electrical cable, (this comes down with the lamp) and the winch plugged in to lower each lamp. 
Each lamp is accessed by a gantry which operates from the centre of the atrium if you need to service one lamp on the far side you must remove half of the lamps to reach it! Each lamp being 3 meters long quite a task.
You can see gantry in image and how it is impeded by lights x 12 
How can we keep the existing rig and have the lamp cable safely disconnect, power up the winch then recconect once service is complete, all remotely? We can control wirelessly we just need to make the connection at the winch / lamp / powerpoint.
The atrium is 28m high.
Look Forward to your coments
Many Thanks
Mrp


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm not sure if something like this would work or not.

http://www.aplussupply.com/lighting/lift/lift.html?gclid=CIqMn_jk0owCFRGCGgodbRhTtw

This might be residential only.


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## mrpugowski (Jun 10, 2007)

I think your right these are just residential, the lamp we are using are CDMR and the height we are dealing with is about 28m / 90ft.
I think we need a device that will diconnect the power lead from the light and engage the winch then reconnect the lamp power after winching up and down.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Wow, that's a seriously tall ceiling height. I don't believe I've ever seen a chandelier lift that tall that also disconnects the power. It might have to be something you'd have to speak with a chandelier lift manufacturer about making custom for your job.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

I think Marc hit it on the nose - this sounds like you will need a custom set-up.


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## calimurray (Apr 29, 2007)

all chandelier lifts we work with are operated on a cable which disconnects power at the ceiling before coming down with contacts in the top of fixture>


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## mrpugowski (Jun 10, 2007)

Calimurray do you have any more information on these lifts you have worked with? I am very interested. sounds just like what I'm looking for.
Thanks


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## apburton (Jul 10, 2007)

*fixture lift*

I came across your discussion and the fixture lifts are used for both residential and commercial applications. My biggest concern is the weight of the fixtures and the wattage they draw. The one in my home is rated for a fixture of a 1000 pounds or less. Im pretty certain that it can be ordered with a extra, extra long cable. 
Note* when the canopy of the fixture breaks from the ceiling it automatically disconnects the power. If you want more information just let me know and I would be happy to help you.
Thanks, Larry
www.aplussupply.com


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## Ropewrench (Jul 10, 2007)

Mrp,
I would suggest looking into solutions from the the theatrical industry. 28m is pretty high but not impossible. If you can combine a row of the fixtures onto a single batten then you have a better chance of using different products available for the distance needed to travel. These solutions also offer very safe and reliable motor control panels. To get you started look at this web site and checkout the Chandlier Hoist (Can be special ordered) and the Batten Hoist
http://www.desisti.it/country/rigging/index-rigging.asp
Happy rigging
Ropewrench


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## Johnpaul (Oct 2, 2008)

Not cheap but Vantage and others have power controllers that will both adjust voltage and cut it off to remote units. They have remotes that can handle the power from a light winch. Need to start with the surge amperage draw of the winch motor when it starts up. Being able to dim the lights based on time of day will extend the life of the lights and save on energy consumption by as much as 50% overall which can help offset the cost of the installation.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

calimurray said:


> all chandelier lifts we work with are operated on a cable which disconnects power at the ceiling before coming down with contacts in the top of fixture>


Exactly. We just completed an installation (80ft atriums) using Aladdin Light lifts and they had contacts at the top of the mechanism, which of course disconnected as soon as you lowered the fixture. Good luck.


EDIT: Go here... http://aladdinlightlift.com/new/standardinstall7.html This is page seven, which details the bottom contact plate. Sift through the pages and you'll get the idea.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

spoon said:


> Exactly. We just completed an installation (80ft atriums) using Aladdin Light lifts and they had contacts at the top of the mechanism, which of course disconnected as soon as you lowered the fixture. Good luck.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Go here... Aladdin Light Lift, Inc. This is page seven, which details the bottom contact plate. Sift through the pages and you'll get the idea.


not a total loss becuase if somebody looks up this thread for info in the future, yours would be helpful but just wanted to let you know that the last guy to post to this thread posted in October and he posted to a thread that was well over a year old then.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

Whoops! Haha, I have a habit of not looking at dates when threads are on the first page.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

those alladin lift kits are pretty nice. i believe you can get longer cables for them too. i installed a bunch of these things and they work wonderful. just make sure that the box that hangs off the pipe is flush with the celing perfectly. another thing, make sure you cover the contacts with a bag or something so the painter doesnt spray it with paint.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

electricalperson said:


> another thing, make sure you cover the contacts with a bag or something so the painter doesnt spray it with paint.


Those dog-gone painters sure do paint everything with paint, don't they! :laughing:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

spoon said:


> Those dog-gone painters sure do paint everything with paint, don't they! :laughing:


they go crazy with the spray gun. whats the mexican phrase for dont paint this? no painto?


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

electricalperson said:


> they go crazy with the spray gun. whats the mexican phrase for dont paint this? no painto?


No pentar or something like that. Funny story... a year or so back we were working on this four story mixed use building, and the painters were spraying inside of some of the units. My buddy walks down one of the hallways leading into one of those units and "whoosh!" Got sprayed right across the face and chest. _"Spray gun just appeared outta' nowhere!"_ Good thing it was about lunchtime, we all had a good laugh.


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

would it be possible to use a limit switch?


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

JPRO2 said:


> would it be possible to use a limit switch?


What's that for? These units come with switches.


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

sorry i may be mis understanding.
but would it be possible to use a normally closed limit switch hooked up in series with the light so when the light starts to lower it breaks contact with the switch


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

whoops i think i completely miss understood that sorry ive never seen any kind of light hung from a winch


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

JPRO2 said:


> sorry i may be mis understanding.
> but would it be possible to use a normally closed limit switch hooked up in series with the light so when the light starts to lower it breaks contact with the switch


Yeah, they have contacts up at the top so when the light lowers, the contact breaks and power is then cutoff from the fixture. They come with all of that stuff pre-engineered in. They're pretty kewl! :thumbsup:


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

No doubt hope to come across one some day. Good luck finding a solution though


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

JPRO2 said:


> sorry i may be mis understanding.
> but would it be possible to use a normally closed limit switch hooked up in series with the light so when the light starts to lower it breaks contact with the switch


the bottom of the fixture has a spot for a hickey. you hang the light off of a hickey with a rod. the plastic disk has 3 wires hanging off of it a white black and ground. on top of the disk has round metal contacts and hwen the light raises to the box the contacts at the top facing down connect with contacts facing up. if theres paint on those it wouldnt make a good connection. 

on the last aladdin lift kit i installed it came wired wrong from the factory. the power source for the control wire that you run down the wall was connected to the power source from the light. in order to lower the lift the light needed to be on. i just had to swap 2 connections and it was fixed. its supposed to be on the source feeding the motor. 

you can run 2 14/2's or a 14/3 and share the neutral. just follow the directions in the box


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## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

This is something that you absolutely do not want to get involved with yourself. You need to get an engineer to design, spec and approve the equipment and installation. Then you need a professional rigger to install the winches and hang the fixtures. 

This is a public building and the consequences for you, your company and the building owner are enormous. If one of those fixtures falls and kills somebody even 10 years after you installed it, guaranteed you will hang. Engineers and riggers have the expertise to get this done properly and most importantly SAFELY. They are insured for this type of work, are you?

-Hal


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

hbiss said:


> This is something that you absolutely do not want to get involved with yourself. You need to get an engineer to design, spec and approve the equipment and installation. Then you need a professional rigger to install the winches and hang the fixtures.
> 
> This is a public building and the consequences for you, your company and the building owner are enormous. If one of those fixtures falls and kills somebody even 10 years after you installed it, guaranteed you will hang. Engineers and riggers have the expertise to get this done properly and most importantly SAFELY. They are insured for this type of work, are you?
> 
> -Hal


Great point Hal. However, the OP is 18 months old.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Great point Hal. However, the OP is 18 months old.


Is he old enough to be posting on this forum? :jester:

~Matt


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## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

Right but it looks like it has been resurrected. I think the OP was the lighting manufacturer so if he is still tuning in, this is something he needs to understand. A lot of these lighting manufacturers don't understand the electrical industry or installation, only how to make their products look pretty. :no:

-Hal


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## Dembones (Mar 24, 2007)

spoon said:


> No pentar or something like that. Funny story... a year or so back we were working on this four story mixed use building, and the painters were spraying inside of some of the units. My buddy walks down one of the hallways leading into one of those units and "whoosh!" Got sprayed right across the face and chest. _"Spray gun just appeared outta' nowhere!"_ Good thing it was about lunchtime, we all had a good laugh.


That's awesome! I actually started out painting, didn't last long because reasoning and common sense are frowned upon in that industry. The painters I was working with on a recent Fred Meyer remodel were the worst I've ever seen. Born in the US, spoke perfect english, and were dumb as a bag of Harbor Freight hammers. They tried to argue that my cables, that were cut right exactly where they masked, TWO SEPARATE TIMES, were cut by my guys. They cut absolutely everything in their path, sometimes it seemed they went out of their way to cause me grief:no:


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