# Photo of Klein Lack of quality



## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Someone in one of the threads said they wanted proof of some of the things people are saying about how Klein's quality is going down. 

Here are my linesmen, they are the J2000 series, and 2 years old. 
You can see the "teeth" are almost gone, and you can see the chips in the cutting edge, although the one side they look bigger then they are are and the other they look smaller, but you can see they are there. Yes I do cut 10/1 screws and other things I probably shouldn't but still this is way ridiculous.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

No wonder why they are shot. They are two years old. If you said they were two weeks old you would have a valid complaint. But two years? Now you're complaining without merit in my opinion.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

OK, lets do the math. Say they cost $40.

2 years old, that's roughly 500 days (50 weeks * 5 days * 2 years) of use. 40/500 = 0.08. It cost you less than a dime a day to use them.

And that's not taking into account _ab_using and _mis_using them. Just using them.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Guys I work with have Kleins that are 5+ years old and still look great. 

Its not even like I used these all the time, I ran coreline for 8 months and tied a lot of wire, but I have a pair of rebar linesmen I used for that. 

They have spliced 4 condo parkaids and a bank.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

So how much life expectancy do you want from a tool that gets constant use and abuse in our trade? I replace my pliers once a year even if they're in good shape. $40 a year on new pliers is no great hardship, unless I cut through something live which does happen. :whistling2:


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a pair of the Journeyman 2000 series linesmans, I originally got them back when they had their 150year anniversary, so the pliers had the 150year logo. They got beat every step of the way, the grips pulled off, so I replaced them with the tenite grips, then the cutting edge was destroyed from the center back, you could see the light of day through it. The teeth were also wearing out and they were misused several times. I got a pair of Knipex Linesmans with the comfort grips and hated them, I even switched back to the kleins. One day I had them in my pocket at the supply house and just for the hell of it I asked my counter guy to see if he could get them on warrenty, he looked them over and said yeah, and I got a brand new pair of Journeyman Linesmans. After that I went to the truck and got my *****, Got them back under warrenty too for the same reason. 

I agree they dont last as long, I had a pair with the HD orange handles for 6 years, and the new pair for 2. But I misused this new pair a lot more and did a fair share of screw cutting(fasco blower motors). But at least the supply house still honors the warrenty.

I also think you get more leverage with the Kleins over the Knipex version.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

The chips, well one of them has been there since the second or third week I had them, happened cutting the head off a fishtape. 

Two years doesn't seem unreasonable. chips in the cutter should never really happen, I never use the cutter side to hit anything. And hardened steel shouldn't wear out from twisting copper.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

electro916 said:


> But at least the supply house still honors the warrenty.
> 
> I also think you get more leverage with the Kleins over the Knipex version.


I can't even get home depot to honor the warranty.... 


knipex has a new 9 1/2" pair that I have been looking at. I figure if nothing else I will just use them as my backup and keep replacing kleins... although thats not what I really want.


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## Mort Stevens (Aug 20, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> Here are my linesmen, they are the J2000 series, and 2 years old.


 There is a very small market for linemen pliers and once you sell everyone in that market a linesman you need to figure out how to sell them another and the way to do that is to engineer into the design the tools lifespan. Manufacturing techniques have improved greatly since the 60s and you can with a pretty high degree of certainty engineer just how long something will last - be it a coffee pot, washing machine or linesmen. I always remember the conversation I had with my grandfather, he worked for Goodyear and would always say that making a car tire last 100,000 miles is no problem, but it hurts company profits too much to offer such a tire, unless they would sell it for 3x as much and most consumers only look at the price so it would put them out of contention. He died in the late 80s so you can imagine just how far things have come since then... today we have tires that barely last 20,000 miles and they call that progress! Klein is obviously looking at increasing their profits by not harding the metal enough and leaving it at a softer value so that it wears faster - but in doing this they are turning off a lot of old timers and new comers are looking to other brands too because of the wear problems they hear about with todays offerings from Klein.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

"Klein is obviously looking at increasing their profits by not harding the metal enough and leaving it at a softer value so that it wears faster - but in doing this they are turning off a lot of old timers and new comers are looking to other brands too because of the wear problems they hear about with todays offerings from Klein."


Klein has de-kleined enough to make me switch brands. I will NOT buy klein any more, except for their 11 in 1 - that screwdriver is the best multi-screwdriver out. next time I am at big blue, I will be picking up the 9.5" knipex lineman pliers to see how they stand up. I have a small channel lock style plier made by knipex and the teeth on that could grab hold of a marble I tell ya! Basically, I see no reason why I would be disapointed in any knipex product, I just wish they made screwdrivers.

~Matt


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Wera makes a mean demo driver.

I've had it for just under a year now and despite using it to beat on everything from KO's to concrete (makes me cringe but sometimes you do what you gotta) and the tip has still held up very well, not rounded off like I expected. Once again, it's going to wear down like any other tool, but that's some tough steel, I would definitely buy another.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Mort Stevens said:


> Klein is obviously looking at increasing their profits by not harding the metal enough and leaving it at a softer value so that it wears faster - but in doing this they are turning off a lot of old timers and new comers are looking to other brands too because of the wear problems they hear about with todays offerings from Klein.


So Mort, who are you an engineer for?


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

hey mort, welcome to the forum !!


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

man forget klein. i had the handles of the dipped 2000 series pull off. i had the 2000 series ***** and they gapped the first day and i was only cutting 14- 12 awg solid copper. im all ideal now pliers still made in the usa by channellock and the screwdrivers beat the hell outta kleins and the nutdrivers dont break off at the tip like a klein. i will never buy klein again


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## AaronJohnTurner (Nov 16, 2009)

bduerler said:


> man forget klein. i had the handles of the dipped 2000 series pull off. i had the 2000 series ***** and they gapped the first day and i was only cutting 14- 12 awg solid copper. im all ideal now pliers still made in the usa by channellock and the screwdrivers beat the hell outta kleins and the nutdrivers dont break off at the tip like a klein. i will never buy klein again


Ideal lineman's are great. Twas my first pair, now I'm onto the J2000's.


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

I have swapped brands to Knipex and are loving it thus far...time will tell.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

AaronJohnTurner said:


> Ideal lineman's are great. Twas my first pair, now I'm onto the J2000's.


you might be making the switch back to ideal cause it seems like klein has just nose dived on the quality. i will never again buy anything that ends with -drivers from them cause they blow big. as for the pliers i have had to many bad times with them and moved on


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

For years I have been having trouble with the tips of these cutters wearing away.

I use them constantly for pulling out staples.

The head is on a 45 degree angle and gives you great leverage.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> ..............I use them constantly for pulling out staples....


Why? Do you staple UF to the bottom of your trench? :laughing:


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Why? Do you staple UF to the bottom of your trench? :laughing:


Haha that's too funny. Yeah I didn't know you could staple cables down with a shovel!


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Two years is a long time for a set of pliers....! Especially if you acually use them everyday....I should post a pic of mine...Youll get a real laugh. IF I get 6 months out of a pair of ***** im doing well. I personally dont like working with old tools. Some guys get attached to them.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> The chips, well one of them has been there since the second or third week I had them, happened cutting the head off a fishtape.


Cutting snakes will hurt the cutting edge, either stop cutting snakes or stop complaining your tools need replacement.


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## PositiveBalance (Nov 25, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> Someone in one of the threads said they wanted proof of some of the things people are saying about how Klein's quality is going down.
> 
> Here are my linesmen, they are the J2000 series, and 2 years old.
> You can see the "teeth" are almost gone, and you can see the chips in the cutting edge, although the one side they look bigger then they are are and the other they look smaller, but you can see they are there. Yes I do cut 10/1 screws and other things I probably shouldn't but still this is way ridiculous.


Those look better then the pair I have had for six months. I had my first pair kliens for 3 good years without issue till they grew their legs. I bought the "Better J-Man quality" to replace them.

After six months, the teeth are worn, and I have all kinds of gouges on the blade. I have never cut anything but copper with them either, much less screws. 

I have also broke a robbie and flathead driver in the past couple months. For me, Klein has gone from hero to zero in less then a year.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't care who you are. 

When you break a robbie, it can really ruin your whole day.lol


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Wth is a robbie?


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> Wth is a robbie?


Robertson.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> OK, lets do the math. Say they cost $40.
> 
> 2 years old, that's roughly 500 days (50 weeks * 5 days * 2 years) of use. 40/500 = 0.08. It cost you less than a dime a day to use them.
> 
> And that's not taking into account _ab_using and _mis_using them. Just using them.


2 years = 52 weeks
-6 weeks vacation and 10 holidays annually = 44 weeks or 88 biannual x 5 = 440 days.

1/2 the days you never touch your linemans or any of your tools so... 220 days 

Costs about .18 cents a day...

Still, dividing by the cost per day or hour is a cheap unrealistic weay for a salesman to pitch the product and make any piece of chit sound great... 

Linemans, especially so-called "top of the line" linemans should last 10 years or better.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Linemans, especially so-called "top of the line" linemans should last 10 years or better.


That is in the top 10 of the stupidest things I have ever heard. It's probably even in the top 3.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> That is in the top 10 of the stupidest things I have ever heard. It's probably even in the top 3.


 :thumbsup:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> That is in the top 10 of the stupidest things I have ever heard. It's probably even in the top 3.


I should have qualified that with "for those who don't work like a dog."

...sorry Peter.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I should have qualified that with "for those who don't work like a dog."
> 
> ...sorry Peter.


I could have seen that comeback coming a mile away. :laughing:

But you're right...union guys are laid off quite a bit so I can see their pliers lasting 10 or more years.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> 2 years = 52 weeks
> -6 weeks vacation and 10 holidays annually = 44 weeks or 88 biannual x 5 = 440 days.
> 
> 1/2 the days you never touch your linemans or any of your tools so... 220 days
> ...


 
You remind me of Mrs. Donovan today. "Bwah Bwah Bwah Bwah. Bwah Bwaah Bwaah Bwah Bwaaah Bwah Bwah. Bwah Bwaah Bwah Bwaaah. Bwaaah Bwaah Bwah Bwaaah Bwah Bwah. Bwah Bwaah Bwah, Bwaaah Bwah Bwaah."
















Oh, Mrs. Donovan is Charlie Brown's teacher.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Ten years seems like a bit much but one year? That's crazy. Why would you replace perfectly good pliers just because they have been used for one year?

Anyway, my pliers are almost a year old and have been used almost everyday and abused a bit too. 
Compare my Knipex linesmen to the OP Kleins.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

that's what a knipex looks like?
looks kinda girly.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I thought they were a little girly at first as well. Then I worked with them and realized I was wrong. They cut better than anything I've ever used.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> They cut better than anything I've ever used.



Including live cables, apparently. :whistling2:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> I thought they were a little girly at first as well. Then I worked with them and realized I was wrong. They cut better than anything I've ever used.


 they just don't look as meaty as a pair of Klien's, like I would actually have to use a hammer instead when I want to pound on something; I do like the cuved indention there, making them more useful when you need a generic pliar-type of groove.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

ehh, it happens. I've only shorted a hot with my linesmen once though. There's a little tiny hole in them now, which kinda pisses me off.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> they just don't look as meaty as a pair of Klien's, like I would actually have to use a hammer instead when I want to pound on something; I do like the cuved indention there, making them more useful when you need a generic pliar-type of groove.


They are fine for staples and pounding a beater when needed. They are definately not as heavy as kleins though.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> ehh, it happens. I've only shorted a hot with my linesmen once though. There's a little tiny hole in them now, which kinda pisses me off.


 always happens to me when-ever I just buy them, like, the next day or something; you get lazy, don't turn off the power and pop! The first one is not bad enough to ruin the pair BUT just annoying enough to always make you mad.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I was trimming out a house and had every circuit off in the subpanel but of course i had a couple circuits on in the main, which was me just being a knucklehead and pop.
But, I've done pretty well with this pair so far. My last pair looked like jacked up teeth when I retired them.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

if you dont blow em up, klein sidecutters should last 5-7 years. or at least they used to.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Why? Do you staple UF to the bottom of your trench? :laughing:


No.. I just Scotchcote the PVC and the UF sticks to it.. staples cost money


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

paul d. said:


> if you dont blow em up, klein sidecutters should last 5-7 years. or at least they used to.


I've got a pair that is at least 5 years old and totally beat to crap. They used to have quality. Every week or so I have to hit the opposite side of where I normally do to get them to loosen up again.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

where the hell is "pig's eye" anyway?


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Pig's Eye is the original name for Saint Paul.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

[/quote]Pig's Eye is the original name for Saint Paul. 
[/quote] 
That's right.
I think I asked you that awhile back.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> I've got a pair that is at least 5 years old and totally beat to crap. They used to have quality. Every week or so I have to hit the opposite side of where I normally do to get them to loosen up again.


That been my issue for my entire career. Break in. Klein side cutters take forever to loosen up. They are very hard to work with until they loosen. I bought a new pair 5 years ago right before I got hurt. They still are real tight and a pain in the ass to use. Of course they are not used like you guys use them, but.

I remember some time back Klein side cutters had a version that was marketed to cut steel *and* copper. The yellow handles I think with the crimper. I have always been under the impression if it does not say copper only, you could cut most anything?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> I remember some time back Klein side cutters had a version that was marketed to cut steel *and* copper. The yellow handles I think with the crimper. I have always been under the impression if it does not say copper only, you could cut most anything?


You'd think, wouldn't you? 

I'm still waiting for Klein to get the hint and start making tools that will stand up to the way that they are actually used and abused in the field. 

I like to trawl antique stores, and it's amazing to see how sturdy hand tools were made back in the 20's, and they could still be used for another hundred years. Please, someone start making tools like that again. I'm perfectly willing to pay for them. 

There are still a few companies making bullet-proof tools. Snap-On and Williams comes to mind. If Williams started making electrician's tools, I'd buy them. They'd probably have a black oxide finish though, which I think would be pretty cool. I tend to wear out #2 phillips drivers pretty regularly, but I'm still on the same Snap-On #2 phillips I bought in the early 90's.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Snap on is 2nd to none. I have a set. Do they even make a linemans?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Snap on is 2nd to none. I have a set. Do they even make a linemans?


Probably. I am led to believe that Blue Point brand tools are made by Snap-On also. I know Blue Point makes several kinds of plier tools. 

If Snap-On wasn't so damned difficult to buy, I might own more of their stuff. Of the few Snap-On tools I own, I've had to pull off the road and hunt the Snap-On guy when I saw his truck parked at a garage.


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## Colorado Fatboy (Apr 25, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Snap on is 2nd to none. I have a set. Do they even make a linemans?



Here you go:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...3&group_ID=750&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

And you can order online.:thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

nice...need a better pic though


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Colorado Fatboy said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...3&group_ID=750&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
> 
> And you can order online.:thumbsup:


You can buy Snap-on online now? Cool. I might try out their screwdrivers as I've just about had it with Klein screwdrivers.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

they better be good for 61 bucks.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

captkirk said:


> Two years is a long time for a set of pliers....! Especially if you acually use them everyday....I should post a pic of mine...Youll get a real laugh. IF I get 6 months out of a pair of ***** im doing well. I personally dont like working with old tools. Some guys get attached to them.


 
Haha funny you say that, I HATE new tools...I love my broken in, used pliers and tools. I have had most of the tools in my box since I started in the trade almost 10 years ago. And I keep them well guarded:thumbsup:.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Haha funny you say that, I HATE new tools...I love my broken in, used pliers and tools. I have had most of the tools in my box since I started in the trade almost 10 years ago. And I keep them well guarded:thumbsup:.


I wish I bought all of my tools when I was a helper, (ten years ago). I bought a few and got hand me downs. Just bought what I needed, when I needed it. The Kleins I bought back then are far superior to what they sell now.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

snap on linemans.


cheaper too

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...fb51f59&itemid=360177419493&ff4=263602_263622


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Plus the shipping that's still going to cost over 50 bucks.

Anyone ever used them?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

eh, pony up, ya cheap b*stard!


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

ive used them, but not for electrical. i had them for 4 years, and now my brother uses them at the airport to work on airplanes. so, total 6 years and still going


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## Colorado Fatboy (Apr 25, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> snap on linemans.
> 
> 
> cheaper too
> ...



Better read that description again, that auction is for a 7" pair not 9":no:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> eh, pony up, ya cheap b*stard!


You're one to talk, I've seen those old ass metal and rubber things you own that you call tools.

I spend the money, but I want German steel.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

german steel?
how about my w/e ride?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Cool, I love german vehicles. 

:thumbsup:
You should buy some german tools to go along with that.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Colorado Fatboy said:


> Better read that description again, that auction is for a 7" pair not 9":no:


i had the 7s. cant speak for the 9s


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I've never used anything made by Snap-On. There was a Snap-on truck that rolled by my old shop in the morning for a mechanics shop next door.. I remember looking at their stuff and thinking, that's good for an auto mechanic but what would I do with any of that?
Just wondering.
So what makes them so nice?


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## Advanced37 (Jan 11, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I've never used anything made by Snap-On. There was a Snap-on truck that rolled by my old shop in the morning for a mechanics shop next door.. I remember looking at their stuff and thinking, that's good for an auto mechanic but what would I do with any of that?
> Just wondering.
> So what makes them so nice?


I have some snap on sockets (tamper proof torx) and they were very expensive. They have had held up well. Why you would buy linesman pliers from a tool company for mechanics I dont know... but hey...


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

im an ase mechanic for fun. so, a good amount of my tools are for cars, but do the same thing as yours. i mean really, whats the difference between a screwdriver for an electrician, and a mechanic? all of my socket wrenches are snap on. and they have lasted since i bought then 7 years ago. it might be more, but its cheaper in the long run.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

check this out:

http://www.kleintools.com/Klein-Too...BOOKLETS/Warranty-Broken_Tools_Supplement.pdf


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

I_get_shocked said:


> check this out:
> 
> http://www.kleintools.com/Klein-Too...BOOKLETS/Warranty-Broken_Tools_Supplement.pdf


 seems fair and reasonable to me.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> check this out:
> 
> http://www.kleintools.com/Klein-Too...BOOKLETS/Warranty-Broken_Tools_Supplement.pdf





paul d. said:


> seems fair and reasonable to me.


I agree.



kleinwarranty said:


> *The exception to this warranty is Model 63060 Ratcheting Cable Cutter which is warranted for 90 days from the date of purchase.
> **The following are never covered under warranty since these are considered perishable products: Triple-Tap Blades, Drill Bits, Klein Unibits, Compass Saw Blades, Hacksaw Blades and Holesaws.


Considering how many triple-taps I've broken, I can't really argue with calling them "perishable" :laughing:


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> check this out:
> 
> http://www.kleintools.com/Klein-Too...BOOKLETS/Warranty-Broken_Tools_Supplement.pdf


The Klein warranty is not worth a . What is the life expectancy of a klien tool anyway? I believe tool wear/failure is designed into their tools, that’s why they expect them to fail under X amount of time. It's almost like a scam. Do less than you are capable because you make more money that way. Design tools with softer metal so they wear out.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I dropped my Klein tubing reamer from my ladder no more than 8 feet up and it shattered into pieces. I just put it on the end of my cordless now. That thing was like 20 bucks...Klein quality is an oxymoron.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

kleins warranty is just as much of a joke as the quality. screw klein! ideal has great quality tools and they will honor the warranty as long as its not hot burned or abused


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I twisted off a klein nut driver a couple weeks ago, took it to one dealer and they told me they would have to send it in. So I took it to another dealer and they swapped it out no questions asked. 

But all in all I'm not buying any more klein tools. There are much better tools out there for about the same price.


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## KleinToolsCC (Dec 2, 2009)

*Klein Tools Warranty*

There have been some misconceptions about the Klein Tools Warranty. 



Klein Tools warranty covers any defects in quality or workmanship. It does not cover a tool if the tool simply wears out or has obviously been abused. 
Our quality data demonstrates that we have very few quality issues. Those that we do find are addressed aggressively. Our quality is excellent because we use the highest quality materials and employ the most modern manufacturing and quality systems in the world – right here in the USA.
All Klein Tools distributors are required to process warranty returns. If you have a problem with a warranty return, you may want to consider using a different distributor because most of our distributors perform this process without hesitation. They know we back up our products and provide them prompt credit for warranty returns.
If you have a warranty return and your local distributor is unwilling to process it, please call 1-800-553-4676 and we will process your return directly. 
There is a misconception in the thread that we use less expensive steel or are making pliers that wear out faster. This is not true, we are constantly improving processes to deliver the highest quality products to our customers. 

Sincerely,
Klein Tools Corporate Communications


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BS!!!!!!!!!....YOu have very many "quality" issues or lack thereof...How many unreported claims to do you think are out there?...You guys need to do something and soon. You do use softer steel on your new screwdrivers, the old one's would last alot longer than the new ones....Wake up, man.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think KleinToolsCC is here to try to do damage control.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

Personally myself or my company have never had a problem with Klein tools.... we use them hard and they last as expected. I would know, as I pay a portion of all hand tools purchased by my employees. My linesmans and my dikes are both over four years old and I have no problems with them at all. My insulated screwdriver set is used everyday, as regular screw drivers are, and I have no problem with them. Their depthfinder Stainless Steel fishtapes are second to none. The only Klein product that I have not been happy with has been their benders. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

KleinToolsCC said:


> This is not true, we are constantly improving processes to deliver the highest quality products to our customers.


From our perspective, it seems as if Klein is constantly improving processes to deliver the cheapest quality product that they can still sell for a premium price.

We are the guys in the foxholes using your tools, we know what's going on. It was only 4 or 5 years ago when the one guy on a job that had a non-Klein pair of pliers or screwdriver would be laughed off the jobsite. Now, well over half the men switched to different brands and are happy. 

Klein can't survive on their past fame, the people are seeing the truth.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Innovative said:


> *Personally myself or my company have never had a problem with Klein tools*.... we use them hard and they last as expected. I would know, as I pay a portion of all hand tools purchased by my employees. *My linesmans and my dikes are both over four years old* and I have no problems with them at all. My insulated screwdriver set is used everyday, as regular screw drivers are, and I have no problem with them. Their depthfinder Stainless Steel fishtapes are second to none. The only Klein product that I have not been happy with has been their benders. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


The fact that they are over 4 years old is why they are still a quality product. Go buy a pair of linemens or phillips head screwdriver today and see how they feel and hold up.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

KleinToolsCC said:


> There have been some misconceptions about the Klein Tools Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As I have said before... •••• Klein! I spent a huge amount of money on Klein tools over the years, and not impressed with any of their crap - except for the bx/mc cutters and the 11 in 1. Those are the only 2 tools worth a damn Klein makes. I could show you a side by side compairason of some ideal and klein strippers - the ideals over 3 years old - the klein, less than 1 year and the cutting blade on the klein looks like a saw rather than a blade. 


~Matt


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

KleinToolsCC said:


> There is a misconception in the thread that we use less expensive steel or are making pliers that wear out faster. This is not true, we are constantly improving processes to deliver the highest quality products to our customers.


I wish you could explain why my oldest "M. Klein and Sons" #2 phillips is still going strong, and my newer Klein #2's wear out in a year's time? The process might have changed, but I can't really say it's for the better the way I see things.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I wish you could explain why my oldest "M. Klein and Sons" #2 phillips is still going strong, and my newer Klein #2's wear out in a year's time? The process might have changed, but I can't really say it's for the better the way I see things.


There's a simple solution and I know you aint gonna like it but:
Buy German screwdrivers.
You'll have the quality you're looking for and won't have to mess around with #2's wearing out after a few turns.


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## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I wish you could explain why my oldest "M. Klein and Sons" #2 phillips is still going strong, and my newer Klein #2's wear out in a year's time? The process might have changed, but I can't really say it's for the better the way I see things.


From the Klein Broken Tools Supplement

10. These screwdriver tips clearly show that they were used
on the wrong-sized fasteners and were also over-torqued.

I've also had similar problems with Klein screwdrivers. Most notably was a broken robbie driver (1 of 2) where the tip sheared off but just above it you can see it was being twisted counter-clockwise. I was loosening the ground bar on a GE panel. Since then I've bought one from HDepot (Husky brand - lifetime no BS warranty!) but have yet to have to trade it in.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm not sure how you can overtorque a hand tool. If a man's hand can generate sufficient torque to ruin a tool, that tool's not much good to me.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm not sure how you can overtorque a hand tool. If a man's hand can generate sufficient torque to ruin a tool, that tool's not much good to me.


That's for sure.

What the hell... that whole pdf is crazy. 
I'm sure there are lots of people who would try to return under warranty their burnt pliers but give me a break.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Stub said:


> From our perspective, it seems as if Klein is constantly improving processes to deliver the cheapest quality product that they can still sell for a premium price.
> 
> We are the guys in the foxholes using your tools, we know what's going on. It was only 4 or 5 years ago when the one guy on a job that had a non-Klein pair of pliers or screwdriver would be laughed off the jobsite. Now, well over half the men switched to different brands and are happy.
> 
> Klein can't survive on their past fame, the people are seeing the truth.


I agree with this statement 100%. 

KleinToolsCC, you should take note of what is being said in this thread. Most of us started in this trade as Klein fans. I still am, and still have Klein stickers on my truck. We have nothing to gain by stating our opinions on tools.

There is a marked difference in quality. My first pair of linemans, I got 7 years ago. They still work great, and the blades are still sharp. I'll get a pair of blue handled journeyman *****, and after 6 months, you can see light between the blades. I also use my linesmans as the "electricians hammer"!, have been for 7 years! 

Klein screwdrivers, the handles seem to be more brittle. They used to take a serious beating. Dropped from 20' and fine. I dropped a medium sized flathead from 6' and it shattered, and it was a few weeks old. 

I'm starting to transition over to Ideal, or Knipex. I dont want to! I like the Klein name, but I cant lose my ass by spending a premium price on a tool that is no longer premium!

Once again, KleinToolsCC, take note of things in this thread! Pass it up the line!


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

KleinToolsCC said:


> There have been some misconceptions about the Klein Tools Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bull**** klein blows a heavy one you know what having all my kleins stolen was the best thing that has ever happened to me cause i went and bought IDEAL and there Lifetime warranty is for real not a load of crap. in the 7 months i have owned there tools i only have had to replace one 10 in 1 and i am very rough on my tools. oh and there grips on there pliers dont slip off and there screwdrivers are 100 times better than kleins. actually i think there entire tool line blows klein out of the water. you can make all the claims in the world but i will never buy anything klein again screw off


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

good to know that klein actually reads this...

to bad they dont do anything. its not good when one of the largest forums for electricians do not like a tool that you claim to be the best at making.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> good to know that klein actually reads this...
> 
> to bad they dont do anything. its not good when one of the largest forums for electricians do not like a tool that you claim to be the best at making.


i concur


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Jeff000 said:


> I can't even get home depot to honor the warranty....
> 
> 
> knipex has a new 9 1/2" pair that I have been looking at. I figure if nothing else I will just use them as my backup and keep replacing kleins... although thats not what I really want.


Knipex have the same leverage as Kleins, if you get the 09-series 9.5" linemans.

I believe the steel is hardened better. The cross-hatched teeth and the knives seem sharper, too.

Buy them, and keep the Klein as your backup!


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

BP_redbear said:


> Knipex have the same leverage as Kleins, if you get the 09-series 9.5" linemans.


From what I've read, the 09 series is the type of plier while the 240 is the length in MM. 240mm = 9.4488"


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*that's the 'combo'*



BuzzKill said:


> that's what a knipex looks like?
> looks kinda girly.


Here's their linenam plier.

























They're very good. Trust me.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I really like the combo. I use the jaw part (whatever you call it) a lot. 

I haven't missed using a traditional linesmen at all.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I really like the combo. I use the jaw part (whatever you call it) a lot.
> 
> I haven't missed using a traditional linesmen at all.


What do you use it for, spinning nuts?

Personally, I like the conventional design with the longer flat area for twisting wires and longer cutting area. The combo shortens both.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Stub said:


> What do you use it for, spinning nuts?
> 
> Personally, I like the conventional design with the longer flat area for twisting wires and longer cutting area. The combo shortens both.


Twisting wires takes about a day to get used to with combos. True, the cutting area is slightly shorter. :yawn:

More than anything I use it for twisting emt in and out of couplings and connecters. I use it for a bunch of stuff because I don't really keep pump pliers on my belt daily.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*ironic...*

...that the title of this thread is 'Photo of Klein Lack of quality'...

I find it ironic that in many, many photos of our tools and tool sets in numerous threads, just look at all the different brands _other than_ Klein. :blink: That fact says to me that Klein is slipping into mediocrity, as far as electrician hand tools go. Whether this is a result of a quality decline, the availability of many brands to consumers, or a combo of both, I can't say for certain.

Sure, there are many Klein tools pictured, and I actually _own and use_ various Klein tools. I'm just not buying any of their screwdrivers or nutdrivers any time soon. :no:

Some of the Klein tools that are in my tool box and ready for use are:

*Reamer/set screw driver* for EMT
*Cutter/crimper* for 16-14, 12, &10AWG 'Sta-Kon' connectors
*Wire strippers*, various models
*Folding rule*, fiberglass
*10-in-1*
*Torpedo level*, magnetic, rare earth (spare, behind my Stabila &a Checkpoint)
*Side Cutters* (2) as spares/backups
I'm sure that there are more. I will edit to add, if I think of 'em.

Oh, uh, pictures... back on track for the OP's topic...

























:whistling2:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

The knipex pliers, do they need to be oiled out of the pack to loosen them up like the kleins do?


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> The knipex pliers, do they need to be oiled out of the pack to loosen them up like the kleins do?


My Knipex lineman pliers with the dipped grips did not require any oil or 'break-in'.
I just got a cushion-grip model for a price I couldn't refuse. Honestly, they're a little tight, which doesn't bother me because I am confident that they will smooth-in very quickly and remain solid (not sloppy).

Oh, I paid around $25 for the dipped model and $28 for the cushion grip model. The prices that I see for Klein, alone make me want to avoid buying them.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> My Knipex lineman pliers with the dipped grips did not require any oil or 'break-in'.
> I just got a cushion-grip model for a price I couldn't refuse. Honestly, they're a little tight, which doesn't bother me because I am confident that they will smooth-in very quickly and remain solid (not sloppy).
> 
> Oh, I paid around $25 for the dipped model and $28 for the cushion grip model. The prices that I see for Klein, alone make me want to avoid buying them.



Have you used any knipex pliers over any extended period of time? I was looking at a pair today and they didn't seem to have a lot of "backbone" to them if you know what I mean.....They just felt a little light in the hand, maybe that's a good thing though. I dunno, when squeezing on the handles they seemed to have a little give in them.

Maybe I'll try a pair anyway.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

I have had the Alligator pliers set (7, 10, 12") since 2004 or 2005. I have been acquiring different models since that time.

As far as lineman pliers go, the first ones that I got were the 1000V Insulated 09 06 240 lineman pliers. I have had them since 2008.

About 2 months ago, I got the ones with the dipped grips 09 11 240. 

So, a relatively short time of use on the lineman pliers. 

I also have 2 Kleins.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> The knipex pliers, do they need to be oiled out of the pack to loosen them up like the kleins do?


no way! they are ready to roll right out of the package!

~Matt


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> Have you used any knipex pliers over any extended period of time? I was looking at a pair today and they didn't seem to have a lot of "backbone" to them if you know what I mean.....They just felt a little light in the hand, maybe that's a good thing though. I dunno, when squeezing on the handles they seemed to have a little give in them.
> 
> Maybe I'll try a pair anyway.


my 10" dikes have some give in the handles, but they do not feel like they are goign to break - actually I think it helps having a little bit of give when you are cutting through hard stuff -it doesnt transfer all of the "snap" to your hand.

~Matt


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> my 10" dikes have some give in the handles, but they do not feel like they are goign to break - actually I think it helps having a little bit of give when you are cutting through hard stuff -it doesnt transfer all of the "snap" to your hand.
> 
> ~Matt



Good point.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

TOOL_5150 said:


> my 10" dikes have some give in the handles, but they do not feel like they are goign to break - actually I think it helps having a little bit of give when you are cutting through hard stuff -it doesnt transfer all of the "snap" to your hand.
> 
> ~Matt


*TOOL*, do you carry/use the 10" diags as a rule, instead of the 8 1/4" ones?

I have KNIPEX's 1000V diags, and a WIHA 8 1/4". The WIHA's aren't 'high-leverage', and the difference is definitely noticeable. SO, the WIHA is a spare/backup.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

KleinToolsCC said:


> There have been some misconceptions about the Klein Tools Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I find this hard to believe, and would like more answers. 
Why is my 2 year old 8" #2 robertson shaft twice as thick as the new ones? And why have I broken the tip off 2 of the new 4 inch #2 robertsons? I don't think I should be able to break the tip off an actual quality hand tool. I'm only 145lbs... 
Neither of which home depot would take back, they both said it was abuse and that I was over torquing.... come on. I bought an Ideal after the second one snapped off, its still going strong.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> *TOOL*, do you carry/use the 10" diags as a rule, instead of the 8 1/4" ones?
> 
> I have KNIPEX's 1000V diags, and a WIHA 8 1/4". The WIHA's aren't 'high-leverage', and the difference is definitely noticeable. SO, the WIHA is a spare/backup.


Honestly, I saw them - and just gave them a try. I am so glad I did. There is definately more leverage, the cutting blades stay sharp, and they are easy to spot in my tool bag. I highly doubt that I would ever use anything smaller for my primary diags. I still have a klein pair of the angeled diags for pulling staples and the like. I blew apart my regular kleins  which is why I gave knipex a try. I completly believe in knipex. If i could sell off my other channies, I would get a knipex set.

~Matt


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