# Obsolete dimmer components



## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

I have a dimmer control panel for 22 auditorium lights. Three of the fixtures were not dimming with the rest. They came on full brightness at stay that way until lights are turned off. I troubleshooted the panel and found that one of the Triacs is shorted. The dimmer panel was made in 1977 by a company no longer around. I was able to get the triac part # (made by GE). I can't find any specs on the GE part # or anything close to this style Triac. I probally can get a replacement from NTE. But the specs needs to match all the other existing triacs in the panel. Its a master/slave board with three slaves per master, three lights per slave board. The master having a trim pot to sync all 22 lights the same dimming. 
I sure hate to replace the whole system because of one bad 2000w triac. Anyone have any suggestions were to find Obsolete GE electronic components? Or even just the data sheets?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

What are the numbers on the Triac? The ECG catalog used to be good for looking stuff like that up, but I don't think they publish a catalog anymore. I suppose Neward/InOne is your next best bet. 

There are rebuilders for this sort of stuff. I think PLCDirect might be one of them.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> What are the numbers on the Triac? The ECG catalog used to be good for looking stuff like that up, but I don't think they publish a catalog anymore. I suppose Neward/InOne is your next best bet.
> 
> There are rebuilders for this sort of stuff. I think PLCDirect might be one of them.


I seem to have left the part # at the office. I thought it was in my truck, but I just looked and remembered I left it on the desk. All I know by memory is it started with SC a series of several numbers then a DX another number,a space, then "7751". I will list the full part # tommorow when I get home . 
Thanks for the help.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

you could try either of these electronic parts sites.

mouser.com

MCMelectronic


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

http://www.alliedelec.com/


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Thanks guys for those sites. I know I can get an cross reference from either of those sites. My problem without the datasheet of the original, I have no idea what the ratings and values to match up. Is there any way to get the spec from GE? It's 1977 component but someone somewhere has this info.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

well I was hoping you would post the part # The full one I mean.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

What voltage is the system on? Triac just turns off at zero crossing, then wait until it receives trigger which is set by external components, so you don't need to be exacting about matching specs. The firing occurs when break-down voltage of diac is reached, so triac itself shouldn't influence the firing timing. 

Exacting specs are unimportant as long as you meet or exceed the ratings and there are T1, T2 and gate terminals. The one that's connected to non-load bearing connection is the gate. 

A triac for microwave oven should work just fine for 120v circuit, which is used to power cycle the magnetron. If you need one that's larger, then you'll have to look harder. If the power handled by that one triac is much smaller and its a 120v circuit, just rip one out of a dimmer you have sitting around.

For the big one... something like this:
http://www.apwagner.com/images/categories/Microwave-triac.jpg

Any appliance repair place should have some laying around.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> What voltage is the system on? Triac just turns off at zero crossing, then wait until it receives trigger which is set by external components, so you don't need to be exacting about matching specs. The firing occurs when break-down voltage of diac is reached, so triac itself shouldn't influence the firing timing.
> 
> Exacting specs are unimportant as long as you meet or exceed the ratings and there are T1, T2 and gate terminals. The one that's connected to non-load bearing connection is the gate.
> 
> ...


 I never thought of it that way. Your absolutley correct, as long as the triac ratings meet or exceed what is required, any appliance triac should work. Afterall a triac is basically just a pair of scr's in opposite directions with a common gate. That picture you posted looks damm close to the TO3 package I need. I need a TO3 isolated flange mount. I'm going to rip open that GE microwave I have sitting in the garage. It needs a high voltage diode anyways. I rather part it out! 
Thanks Electric Light, I think you solved my problem!


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Skipp said:


> I never thought of it that way. Your absolutley correct, as long as the triac ratings meet or exceed what is required, any appliance triac should work. Afterall a triac is basically just a pair of scr's in opposite directions with a common gate. That picture you posted looks damm close to the TO3 package I need. I need a TO3 isolated flange mount. I'm going to rip open that GE microwave I have sitting in the garage. It needs a high voltage diode anyways. I rather part it out!
> Thanks Electric Light, I think you solved my problem!


Not every microwave uses it. Many actually use mechanical relay to cycle the magnetron(so using anything other than 100% power will reduce relay life significantly since it cycles magnetron every 15 secs or so to achieve reduced power)


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> Not every microwave uses it. Many actually use mechanical relay to cycle the magnetron(so using anything other than 100% power will reduce relay life significantly since it cycles magnetron every 15 secs or so to achieve reduced power)


 Your right my microwave didn't have anything close to a TO3 package triac. I am looking at the original manual for the dimmer rack. The replacement part number they give is the dimmer companies part # not the actual component manufactor #. Anyone ever heard of a Custom Lighting control company called ATMOS CORPORATION, Carrollton, Texas? I don't think it exist anymore.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm not too awful far from Carrollton and did a lookup. The only Atmos I see is the natural gas provider out here. They may be gone as you suggest. is it possible it's these guys here:

www.atmoscorp.com

maybe something they used to do, but maybe no longer in the market....


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Maybe these guys? 

http://www.atmos.com/


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> Maybe these guys?
> 
> http://www.atmos.com/


 Unfortanatley either of those Atmos are the Atmos I need. I forgot your in Texas. You know of this town? I wonder if I could find out from the city hall what happened to this company. I still got the GE part number right off the actual component, but it sure would be nice if I could get the info right from the company. I can't belieive GE has no archieved data sheet sources somewhere. 1976 was a while back, but I had no problem finding a spec sheet from GE on those Power Groove T17's from the 60's.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Get one on eBay or something. Those sold for specific applications are $$$$, but I searched Triac, and came up with BTA40-600, which is rated at 40A 600v and its like $5 shipped. If that one doesn't come up, just search triac and eyeball for one that looks reasonable. 

You might have to drill a hole or two in the heat sink, but if the original one was TO-3, you can just use light fixture 18 AWG THHN or something to make up the difference. Even if you mount it with the old holes right below the heatsink plate, I don't think it'll be a big deal, since you're not gonna be driving it at 40A anyways. On a triac like that, if there is a narrower blade, that's the gate. 

It's $5 a pop. Order a couple. If it pops, there goes lunch money. If it works, then you'll have spare parts.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Here's a possible solution...

http://www.nyco-systems.com/Detail73074.htm

Does refurbishing make sense? I would think this means there is a likely chance they are no longer around. 

Here's another:

http://www.iernc.com/manufactures/A/Atmos Dimming/

Good luck!


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> Get one on eBay or something. Those sold for specific applications are $$$$, but I searched Triac, and came up with BTA40-600, which is rated at 40A 600v and its like $5 shipped. If that one doesn't come up, just search triac and eyeball for one that looks reasonable.
> 
> You might have to drill a hole or two in the heat sink, but if the original one was TO-3, you can just use light fixture 18 AWG THHN or something to make up the difference. Even if you mount it with the old holes right below the heatsink plate, I don't think it'll be a big deal, since you're not gonna be driving it at 40A anyways. On a triac like that, if there is a narrower blade, that's the gate.
> 
> It's $5 a pop. Order a couple. If it pops, there goes lunch money. If it works, then you'll have spare parts.


 I just found a cross reference to that. The "TO3 isolated flange" has the exact mounting. The only difference is the leads on the GE original are wires, this one by NTE is tabs. The atmos book says its a 2000w power device. Would a 40a 600v mean its 24000 watts? That can't be right..can it?
BTW thanks for all this help, I feel like I should be paying you for this.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Skipp said:


> I just found a cross reference to that. The "TO3 isolated flange" has the exact mounting. The only difference is the leads on the GE original are wires, this one by NTE is tabs. The atmos book says its a 2000w power device. Would a 40a 600v mean its 24000 watts? That can't be right..can it?
> BTW thanks for all this help, I feel like I should be paying you for this.


No kidding. this guy is a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate the folks on here willing to share their knowledge. :thumbsup:


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> No kidding. this guy is a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate the folks on here willing to share their knowledge. :thumbsup:


 
Your not so bad yourself. I actually just got confused. I thought I was talking to you that last post. Lighting Retro and Electric Light are both very helpful.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Skipp said:


> I just found a cross reference to that. The "TO3 isolated flange" has the exact mounting. The only difference is the leads on the GE original are wires, this one by NTE is tabs. The atmos book says its a 2000w power device. Would a 40a 600v mean its 24000 watts? That can't be right..can it?
> BTW thanks for all this help, I feel like I should be paying you for this.


You're going to have to some wiring and perhaps soldering. 40A 600v means its a 40A, 600v switch. You'll end up paying super premium price if you absolutely insist on having the same foot print. 

120v AC outlets are meant for 120v AC nominal, RMS and its not a big deal if it goes to 135v once in a while. Semiconductor parts and electrical wiring parts are rated differently.

With semiconductor parts, the voltage is usually rated on peak and not nominal RMS. For 120vrms, peak is 170v. Take surge into account and about 350v is the MINIMUM you should spec. If you cut corners, it becomes susceptible to surge damage. 600v is good. 

That $5 thingy should work just fine.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

I bought a NTE50614 Triac Iso flange. Installed it and it worked like a charm. Cost $12. 

Thanks again for the help!


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## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

Any time I need data for electrical or electronic components I just use a search engine like google.
I just type in the components number and then data sheet.
99% of the time I can find the data. and for free most of the time.
What is the triacs number?
just about any triac with simulair specs will work,
most dimmers are not that fussy.
I have fixed many high powered dimmers,
And not always with the original parts.
So long as the specs are simulair.
If you are qualified, and the specs are simulair or better,
you have nothing to fear, especially if the original parts are no longer available. 




Skipp said:


> I have a dimmer control panel for 22 auditorium lights. Three of the fixtures were not dimming with the rest. They came on full brightness at stay that way until lights are turned off. I troubleshooted the panel and found that one of the Triacs is shorted. The dimmer panel was made in 1977 by a company no longer around. I was able to get the triac part # (made by GE). I can't find any specs on the GE part # or anything close to this style Triac. I probally can get a replacement from NTE. But the specs needs to match all the other existing triacs in the panel. Its a master/slave board with three slaves per master, three lights per slave board. The master having a trim pot to sync all 22 lights the same dimming.
> I sure hate to replace the whole system because of one bad 2000w triac. Anyone have any suggestions were to find Obsolete GE electronic components? Or even just the data sheets?


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