# Opinions on changing journeymen



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

As soon as he starts yelling I would tell very calmly that he is hurting your feeling and making working for him very difficult. Let him know that you can see he is an excellent worker and extremely knowledgeable. Explain that you are here to learn and that you would appreciate it if he would try and help you out.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> As soon as he starts yelling I would tell very calmly that he is hurting your feeling and making working for him very difficult.


On the contrary, next time he screams at you you tell him next time he yells at you like a child you're gonna knock his f-ing teeth out, and to speak to you like a human being. :thumbsup:


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

DownInGeorgia said:


> I've never had an issue with a jman before being a 2nd year apprentice and I've already worked with plenty. I've found out that he's been threatened with action from the hall because of all the apprentices he's gone through and how he treats co workers. Bottom line, when is enough enough? Before him I loved coming to work no matter 102 degree GA heat or a 30 degree Jan morning.
> 
> Is it acceptable to request to work with another jman?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Yes, I think it's very acceptable if what you say is true. Sounds like he's just not a good match for teaching apprentices, not everyone is. I believe you'd be doing both of you a favor if you request a different partner.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Does the union have a code of conduct policy between the Jman and apprentices?

If so, which I am sure they must, then follow that. I would begin documenting everything that occurs, what was said, where, what type of work, etc...

Without a paper trail of some sort it is just his word against yours.

There is no reason for treating a guy like that, yeah we all loose our temper and say things, but for it to be ongoing and continuous is not acceptable, regardless of "how things used to be done".


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Dennis Alwon said:


> As soon as he starts yelling I would tell very calmly that he is hurting your feeling and making working for him very difficult. Let him know that you can see he is an excellent worker and extremely knowledgeable. Explain that you are here to learn and that you would appreciate it if he would try and help you out.


I've told him to calm down etc. Etc. That he's making it hard to concentrate and I'm trying to work. He responds with "Wah" or "Boo hoo" He does not care. 57 years old and you can't tell him anything.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

OK, prior post would be a last resort. I would contact someone off the record and tell them that he is living up to his reputation and ask advice on how to move forward. From what I hear the union is VERY political, and if you get a buddy of his they can and will make things difficult for you, even more so than it is now.

If it was me and it's been that bad for that long I'd do whatever I needed to get away from him.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Speedy Petey said:


> On the contrary, next time he screams at you you tell him next time he yells at you like a child you're gonna knock his f-ing teeth out, and to speak to you like a human being. :thumbsup:


It is about to come to that Speedy. I've screamed at him right before Thanksgiving and about lost a tonsil. I finally blew up and it didn't change a thing. I tried the whole respect your elders thing but that's out the door with him. I've even went as far as asking his son (my friend) about it and he just said "Welcome to my childhood.."


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Rest assured, guys like him are not necessarily angry at you, but rather typically with their own pathetic lives.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

DownInGeorgia said:


> I've told him to calm down etc. Etc. That he's making it hard to concentrate and I'm trying to work. He responds with "Wah" or "Boo hoo" He does not care. 57 years old and you can't tell him anything.


Oh man this assclown sounds like a winner. 

If you state (and jobsite) allows it I'd record him and post it to YouTube and show his superiors.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Switched said:


> Does the union have a code of conduct policy between the Jman and apprentices?
> 
> If so, which I am sure they must, then follow that. I would begin documenting everything that occurs, what was said, where, what type of work, etc...
> 
> ...


I actually have a video of audio or 2 just to show my girlfriend actually. I hate to be like that. He's just an A hole though.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

DownInGeorgia said:


> I actually have a video of audio or 2 just to show my girlfriend actually. I hate to be like that. He's just an A hole though.


You're not being like that, he is.

Next time he tells you to get out of the way ignore it. Let him get a little physical with you in view of the others, then press his ass with charges. This guy probably beat your friend as a kid and still does it to his wife.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Switched said:


> You're not being like that, he is.
> 
> Next time he tells you to get out of the way ignore it. Let him get a little physical with you in view of the others, then press his ass with charges. This guy probably beat your friend as a kid and still does it to his wife.


What wife? -.-

No telling I know you just don't treat people like that. Also take note I'm the 2nd apprentice to be put with him after the first couldn't take it. He's barely been on the job 3 months.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks guys btw for all the feedback. This is why I joined the ET community!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> On the contrary, next time he screams at you you tell him next time he yells at you like a child you're gonna knock his f-ing teeth out, and to speak to you like a human being. :thumbsup:


You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar


Only honeybees :laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you want want to knock his ass out, just hit the slow mode and stand around and do nothing until he fires you. If he thinks you are that stupid act like it.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> If you want want to knock his ass out, just hit the slow mode and stand around and do nothing until he fires you. If he thinks you are that stupid act like it.


That's exactly what I've done the past week. Act as stupid as he treats me.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar


Definitely, but sometimes you also get stung.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar


...literally speaking, that's not true :no:, but your speaking figuratively


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok so, petty as it is, he is immune to confrontation.
I would go full on passive aggressive ahole.

Before you start, you have to declare war.
You have to open his lunchbox, pull down your pants and sit on it.
Don't excrete anything. He has to catch you sitting on it. 
Assert dominance by not breaking eye contact.

You will have to make sure no one else sees you.
You must be prepared to deny it and to express sympathy towards him for such a sad and outrageous accusation.

It's up to you to escalate beyond that.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

kid, if its that bad ,go the the jatc director and explain why a change is needed, before anything turns physical


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Such a man is termed a control freak.

You'll find many in the military... as sergeants.

He's virtually certain to take his 'issues' with him -- all the way home and into the bedroom.

So, he's stressing all the time.

&&&

Since this is not a psychiatric forum...

Let us be brief.

1) He's a very poor bet as an instructor which ought to be universally obvious.

2) He's plainly unable to spit out in English where--why--how--when--if. 

( The who being already decided.)

3) Ironically, he'd probably be effective teaching entire classes -- boot came style.

In such a setting he could spew insults and put downs to the whole class and the whole world.

The end result is that the entire class 'bonds' in their unified hatred of this ^%$#.

And so, they begin to rely upon each other for mutual support -- which is a critical brain-set required to survive combat. The Marines don't want troopers who need to run to daddy to solve a life and death crisis. The Marines want troopers who work together, by habit.

I'd bet that your man has been through boot camp, and that his experience has wholly imprinted upon him when he has to buck up and lead... even if his 'squad' is but one green trooper. 

%%%

You are also dealing with the rage of old age jealous of youth.

I know the feeling, well.

Heh.

%%%

You _might_ show up wearing audio PPE -- (turbine grade) hearing protection. (seen at airports)

It'd would be presented as being necessary, upon the advice of your doctor.

As in your psychiatrist! 

There is only so much psychic trauma that your head can sustain. 

[ You had to go to the ER after being caught yelling at the family dog -- and later baying at the Moon. Yes, he's that infectious. ]

&&&

Plan B:

Spell it out: You're a master apprentice -- not a master electrician.

And, as an expert apprentice, you'd have to fail him for: 

1) poor temper.
2) foul rage.
3) poor mind transfer skills -- Spock he is not.

With the latter limitation in mind, insist that he falls back on plain English, at your rate of speed and at your frequency. ( One to three times will do. )

Physical mock-ups and other visual aids ( sketches ) would buttress such chit-chat.

&&&

I'd say recording his outbursts is wholly unnecessary. :no:

His sin has been long established.


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

360max said:


> kid, if its that bad ,go the the jatc director and explain why a change is needed, before anything turns physical


I agree with this. The union is there to help you. That's why you pay dues. See if the JATC, or union leadership can help. Good luck.


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks again everyone. It's good to get some outside opinions on the subject.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

DownInGeorgia said:


> I've been working with a jman on a job recently who's been the first one to actually get to me. It's been pretty bad here lately making me consider some extremes I'd never otherwise consider. This jman has a reputation for being hard to work with/for. Especially apprentices. He's a great electrician and extremely observant. {/quote]
> 
> NO HE IS A CRAPPY electrician and a SHI**Y person, if he can't train he ain't worth a durn and the foreman should stick him in jobs by himself.
> 
> ...


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

Bad Electrician said:


> DownInGeorgia said:
> 
> 
> > I've been working with a jman on a job recently who's been the first one to actually get to me. It's been pretty bad here lately making me consider some extremes I'd never otherwise consider. This jman has a reputation for being hard to work with/for. Especially apprentices. He's a great electrician and extremely observant. {/quote]
> ...


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

DownInGeorgia said:


> Bad Electrician said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I've definitely let him know. If I'm not learning from him AND dealing with the immaturity it's time for something to change. Luckily, foreman put me with someone else.
> ...


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> DownInGeorgia said:
> 
> 
> > Are you on the same job still? If so don't forget to go kick him in the nuts later.
> ...


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Nothing wrong with learning fire alarm. I wish I would have paid more attention to it.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

DownInGeorgia said:


> sbrn33 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I am unfortunately. Fire alarm for another 5-6 months at least :/
> ...


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## DownInGeorgia (Feb 22, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Nothing wrong with learning fire alarm. I wish I would have paid more attention to it.


Alot of these guys have been in 15-30 years and haven't done ot this extensively. I've learned alot already and I'm soaking it up. Usually the contractor I'm with just did the raceways but we're doing all aspects of the upgrade for the hospital on base. Devices and all.


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## CGW (Oct 14, 2014)

Speedy Petey said:


> On the contrary, next time he screams at you you tell him next time he yells at you like a child you're gonna knock his f-ing teeth out, and to speak to you like a human being. :thumbsup:


Has that worked for anyone?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

CGW said:


> Has that worked for anyone?


It did for me. :thumbsup:

A long time ago I had a "foreman" yell at me and clap his hands in front of a bunch of guys. I calmly went over to him and said something similar to what I wrote. It never happened again.


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## CGW (Oct 14, 2014)

Speedy Petey said:


> It did for me. :thumbsup:
> 
> A long time ago I had a "foreman" yell at me and clap his hands in front of a bunch of guys. I calmly went over to him and said something similar to what I wrote. It never happened again.


Fortunately I've never had to deal with anyone quite that serious. At least not in this line of work. 

I'm just a likable guy I guess :thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

CGW said:


> Fortunately I've never had to deal with anyone quite that serious. At least not in this line of work.


This guy was only a few years older than me when I was in my mid 20's, but he had SUCH a chip on his shoulder. Talked down to a lot of people. 




CGW said:


> I'm just a likable guy I guess :thumbsup:


Contrary to what some here might think, so am I. I am usually the guy on the job that gets along with everybody.


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## CGW (Oct 14, 2014)

Speedy Petey said:


> Contrary to what some here might think, so am I. I am usually the guy on the job that gets along with everybody.


I've always been a firm believer that most conflicts are self inflicted. That's not to say there aren't a$$holes out there like the OP is having trouble with..

If you leave the house and the 1st person you come across is an a$$hole, then that's probably exactly what he is. If everyone you meet all day is an a$$hole then you might be the problem :blink:


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ah what the hell .... Since the , " School is Old " ... and this is , " Old School "



If it comes to it ... Make Sure You " Bounce Him Out the Job Gate "

He will not be coming back to this Job ... It is a Safety Issue .




Pete


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## ancientchristian (Jan 22, 2016)

I've run into a few guys like this. First thing is don't let him shake your cofidence. He gets his jollies out of shaking you up. Do the best that you can and be proud of that. When he screams at you laff in his face. He's the looser not you. One of these days you will be the old guy. Remember this guy and be his opposite. I like giving guys like him a hard time. When I see his kind of act I call them out on it right on the spot. Good luck kid.


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