# Is my boss disrespecting me?



## MikeFL

That's better than two different people telling you two different ways to do and the other being upset because you didn't do what they told you to do.

Let it go. If that's how he is, it's on him, not you.


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## macmikeman

He's just gay and shy. He wants to hold your hand and lay his head on your shoulder, but doesn't know how to approach you. You need to help him with some encouragement. Wink at him......


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## Coppersmith

Perhaps he is an introvert and is not comfortable meeting new people. He's not required to interface with you, so he doesn't. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.


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## tjb

Why does it matter? Are your paychecks signed?


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## splatz

Don't you have enough problems that you definitely know are problems? Why go looking for trouble? 



tjb said:


> Why does it matter? Are your paychecks signed?


That's a good way to determine your boss doesn't have a problem with you.
:thumbsup:


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## trentonmakes

Ask for a raise

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## gpop

I worked for a supervisor that was know for leaving notes and avoiding being social. I just found the guy odd. The basic rule was for us to make him look good by running a tight ship and he would only get involved if we couldn't play nicely together. 
It was a running joke that the 3rd shift guy had not seen or spoke to him in person for over 3 years. We then got a micro manager and after 17 years i went and found a new job.


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## lighterup

It's not disrespect....just say _good morning sir _and leave it at that.
It's called "*chain of command*". Relax this system is actually great 
mainly for the reason Mike gave you. 
(Florida Mike ....uhhh not Hawaii Mike:vs_laugh


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## lighterup

trentonmakes said:


> Ask for a raise
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## just the cowboy

I know where you are coming from. I had a plant manager that I would say good morning to and he would just walk by. Turned out he had a bad back and was in pain all the time and was just focusing on walking.


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## John Valdes

Sometimes it takes two to tango.
Do you speak to him?


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## MechanicalDVR

I've had several bosses that were like that and wouldn't talk to an apprentice out on the job.

If they did talk to one it wasn't ever a good thing.

Don't be overly sensitive.


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## HackWork

This is the same guy who won't let you take a vacation?


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## wildleg

have you been showering daily ?


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## emtnut

I wouldn't exactly call 2 yrs a 'long time employee' .

Does he say Hi to all the other apprentices ? If so, it's you, if not, don't worry about it. 

Come to think of it, you should be busy working, not looking at the boss !


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## telsa

To the OP: you need insensitivity training.


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## Signal1

Just keep working.


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## just the cowboy

telsa said:


> To the OP: you need insensitivity training.


 As do half the kids nowadays, my own included.


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## emtnut

telsa said:


> To the OP: you need insensitivity training.


If that's like the sensitivity training I took (a few times !) ... It doesn't work:vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR

telsa said:


> To the OP: you need insensitivity training.






just the cowboy said:


> As do half the kids nowadays, my own included.



Bingo!

I think this is more relevant these days than ever before.

Everyone gets offended over everything!


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## Martine

I think my big boss has only nodded at me. I wouldn't stress it honestly


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## wildleg

To whom it may concern (apprentices):

It is not your bosses job to walk around the jobsite, greet all the employees, and pat you on the back or butt to make you feel good. His job has more to do with getting you work and keeping you working, along with keeping you paid.

It is your job, on the other hand, to keep your nose to the grindstone, so noone should be seeing anything of you besides a$$holes and elbows. Keeping track of who is walking the job is definitely not in your job description, unless someone has instructed you to do exactly that.

just a thought


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## tjb

MechanicalDVR said:


> Everyone gets offended over everything!




That’s a really mean thing to say!


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## stiffneck

I prefer not to be talked to at all.
Have higher ups who will by pass my supervisor to talk to me.
This only adds to the "Toxic work environment" with a www.gov job.
Quote; The work is not the issue, it's the people.
2yrs, 11months or sooner and gone.


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## stiffneck

MechanicalDVR said:


> Everyone gets offended over everything!





tjb said:


> That’s a really mean thing to say!



:laughing:


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## Rora

You're looking at this all wrong... you should be glad he's leaving you alone. On some level, that means you're doing good enough in their eyes. Think about all the people who are in a job that they don't feel right for. There are plenty of people who get into a position where they manage people but aren't a big fan of it... these people, like anyone, do their job without getting more involved than they have to.


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## LGLS

wildleg said:


> To whom it may concern (apprentices):
> 
> It is not your bosses job to walk around the jobsite, greet all the employees, and pat you on the back or butt to make you feel good. His job has more to do with getting you work and keeping you working, along with keeping you paid.
> 
> It is your job, on the other hand, to keep your nose to the grindstone, so noone should be seeing anything of you besides a$$holes and elbows. Keeping track of who is walking the job is definitely not in your job description, unless someone has instructed you to do exactly that.
> 
> just a thought



From a safety standpoint, you're supposed to be aware of your surroundings.


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## emtnut

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> From a safety standpoint, you're supposed to be aware of your surroundings.


Yep, and ears work well for that, at least always did for me :biggrin:

Turning around to see if the boss winks at you doesn't fall into the safety category.


And Mech !! How could you be so mean ?? :surprise:


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## Southeast Power

I try to avoid guys I don't personally know on job sites. The guys you call out from the hall or apprentices and very concerned when the owner comes out to the site. This means they have a problem on the job.

I was an apprentice for 4 years at a shop and the owner would only talk to his bubba boys and the office staff.

Apprentices were lower than whale scat and wouldn't ever be found talking to Foreman, a General Foreman, a PM, or Superintendent. Ever.


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## RaptorsSparky

wildleg said:


> To whom it may concern (apprentices):
> 
> It is not your bosses job to walk around the jobsite, greet all the employees, and pat you on the back or butt to make you feel good. His job has more to do with getting you work and keeping you working, along with keeping you paid.
> 
> It is your job, on the other hand, to keep your nose to the grindstone, so noone should be seeing anything of you besides a$$holes and elbows. Keeping track of who is walking the job is definitely not in your job description, unless someone has instructed you to do exactly that.
> 
> just a thought


I do agree with you it's not his job. But that speaks strongly to the culture of my company on the management side. 

Im not a residential sparky, so we definitely don't work like dogs unless we have to get the job done.


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## RaptorsSparky

HackWork said:


> This is the same guy who won't let you take a vacation?


Yup! lol


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## stuiec

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> From a safety standpoint, you're supposed to be aware of your surroundings.


Assholes on the left - check- elbows on the right -check- good to go


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## MechanicalDVR

tjb said:


> That’s a really mean thing to say!



:vs_laugh:


Never said I was a nice guy!








My Uncle always said "never tell a lie nobody would believe"


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## brian john

RaptorsSparky said:


> Ive worked for this company for 2 years now and every time he comes to the site he avoids all eye contact with me and ignores me at all costs. Im only an apprentice so I report to my journeyman and rarely talk to the boss. But, I just find it disrespectful that he doesn't even acknowledge a long time employee who never calls in sick or misses any days.


I worked for a company for 5-1/2 years and I'd bet in that time the boss did not say more than 1/2 dozen words to me. Did not affect my paycheck or my ego.


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## 360max

brian john said:


> RaptorsSparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ive worked for this company for 2 years now and every time he comes to the site he avoids all eye contact with me and ignores me at all costs. Im only an apprentice so I report to my journeyman and rarely talk to the boss. But, I just find it disrespectful that he doesn't even acknowledge a long time employee who never calls in sick or misses any days.
> 
> 
> 
> I worked for a company for 5-1/2 years and I'd bet in that time the boss did not say more than 1/2 dozen words to me. Did not affect my paycheck or my ego.
Click to expand...

...but is that how you would run your business? Attaboys go a long way, JMHO.


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## The_Modifier

stuiec said:


> Assholes on the left - check- elbows on the right -check- good to go






:vs_laugh:


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## nrp3

When I was young and couldn't understand why the guy worked for was so difficult I asked the owner and basically told me to suck it up and deal with it, don't take it personally. Now that guy is a customer and can be just as difficult. Then again, if wanted a raise, I walked in and asked for it and got it, when I wanted a van and brought one for them to see from the dealership, they bought it over the phone before I returned it. We still have some tense conversations and occasionally, though not lately, have had to tell him he's stepped over the line. If you are still there and the pay checks are coming in, chances are, you are doing just fine. Everybody likes to be liked and be respected, but just keep doing what you are doing. If you are doing well, it'll get noticed. Don't be afraid to speak up for yourself, but be tactful and think about where, when, how and who you do it with.


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## brian john

360max said:


> ...but is that how you would run your business? Attaboys go a long way, JMHO.


Not at all I try and make the new hires feel comfortable and I am always interested on why they want to be electricians.

Had a guy tell me he wanted to be an electrician since he was 9, that was 30 years ago he is one of my top men. I was discussing this with my ex-business partner he worked with this guy for 25 years and he never knew that even.

Most people (NOT ALL) like to feel welcomed.

BUT -Some people are A-holes, shy, busy thinking, worried about a project outcome, have family issues, we are all different.


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## Helmut

RaptorsSparky said:


> Ive worked for this company for 2 years now and every time he comes to site he avoids all eye contact with me and ignores me at all costs. Im only an apprentice so I report to my journeyman and rarely talk to the boss. But, I just find it dis respectful that he doesn't even acknowledge a long time employee who never calls in sick or misses any days.


Go watch the movie Moneyball.

Brad Pitt explains the relationship between Upper Management and baseball players pretty well. He doesn't watch the games, doesn't want to get personal with players for specific reasons..... It's business, and can't be personal.


As an employee of a whopping 2 yrs, you're not expected to understand this.


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## AKFEnergy

The Vietnam War is over... 


...just a thought.


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## gpop

360max said:


> ...but is that how you would run your business? Attaboys go a long way, JMHO.



As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you. 

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus. 

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.


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## AKFEnergy

gpop said:


> As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.
> 
> Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.
> 
> You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.


Whats wrong with that? Take the good with the bad over nothing at all, right?


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## 360max

gpop said:


> As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.
> 
> Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.
> 
> You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.


It doesn’t take a lot to say good morning to an employee, it’s common decency IMHO, regardless of rank.


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## darren79

Most people try to avoid the boss when he shows up. That's one of the nice things with construction, your boss is not breathing down your neck ebery day.

My boss probably wouldn't even know your name after two years let alone that you even work for him. We are lucky that our boss does not show up on a regular basis, he seems to trust the foreman and project managers running his jobs.


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## RaptorsSparky

The thing thats different in this situation is that we use to have weekly monday morning safety meetings at the shop and i always say good morning to him. so its not like I've said one word to him in the 2 years i worked here.


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## LGLS

He's avoiding you, afraid you'll ask for time off.


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## eddy current

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> He's avoiding you, afraid you'll ask for time off.


Yeah, or ask why you don’t get vacation pay! :vs_laugh:


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## telsa

It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.

Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.

It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.

Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)

In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented. 

The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.

Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle. 

See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.


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## lighterup

360max said:


> It doesn’t take a lot to say good morning to an employee, it’s common decency IMHO, regardless of rank.


Not saying that those that haven't , wouldn't or couldn't serve in their countries military is bad , I am saying that had you served in the military
you would get this method. (I don't think you do cause you just equated it
with rudeness or "decency").

I can spot " former military" a mile away and many who wind up in
private companies , in leadership positions , generally can't help
but incorporate what they learned in the military into their non
military lifestyles.


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## lighterup

telsa said:


> It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.
> 
> Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.
> 
> It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.
> 
> *Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)*
> 
> In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented.
> 
> The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.
> 
> Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle.
> 
> See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.



But even in these "pow-wows" , the new guys are frequently told to shut the eff up , particularly Union meetings /pow-wows.


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## stiffneck

lighterup said:


> But even in these "pow-wows" , *the new guys are frequently told to shut the eff up* , particularly Union meetings /pow-wows.



Too many cooks in the kitchen will spoil the stew...
Too many chiefs and not enough warriors...


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## stiffneck

gpop said:


> As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.
> 
> Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.
> 
> You will find most bosses that are willing to *skip the chain of command* to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to _skip the chain_ to give a arse chewing.



And...
At a plant/facility/gov type job are also willing to skip over U as needed.
This includes promotions, overtime, training, etc...


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## brian john

gpop said:


> As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.
> 
> Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.
> 
> *You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give an attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give an arse chewing.*



It is my train, my coal, and my track, I am the engineer so you F'up royally and deserve a word or two I have no issue taking you aside and setting you straight. 

I am not a yeller or screamer, but I have no issue correcting someone when they need it.


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## AKFEnergy

stiffneck said:


> And...
> At a plant/facility/gov type job are also willing to skip over U as needed.
> This includes promotions, overtime, training, etc...



With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all. 

Seriously, how does anyone get promoted anyway? Murder my foreman for the spot to open up, or play hop scotch with electrical companies?

If my first line in the chain sees me as a threat because he thinks I'm trying to take his job, or he just doesn't like me (and I have heard this personally) then _your damn right I wanna speak to the man in charge_. A foreman who doesn't communicate other than spewing rudeness is allowed to by the super, who is encouraged by his PM...probably to keep cost down, right?

...I need to speak to HIS boss, and if he says F'k off then I have my answer. I'll be forced to leave, or I'd be a fool to stay. Who the hell wants to be where they can't spread their wings and grow? My bad, for not being your damn buddy from way back.

I'm going through a similar situation now, so I know the feeling. That frat boy, clique stuff it rampant, and there are good men and women who want no part of it. Somehow you should WANT to be a part of that nonsense to either be let down and make a fool out of yourself, or become the person you hate the most.

I know all electrical cant be like this. But when you encounter those characteristics and you live it long enough, it WILL warp you.


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## telsa

What happens?

You get rotated out.

Done.

It may astonish you, but your own foreman is PEGGED.

You REALLY think that you're the newest kid on the block?

Get over yourself.

Management re-calibrates what ever your foreman says based upon his track record.

I once had a PM try to fire me. He was ejected in (much) less than 48 hours.

( I was so 'dangerous' that no other PM would touch me. Much later, his replacement was fired as well. Same problem: he couldn't find any errors by me. The boss of all of the PMs was a total flake, of course. )


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## tjb

Some people become very anxious, or angry, or indignant, or otherwise worked-up over injustice. Or perceived injustice. Or not receiving what they are convinced is their due. (It’s funny to watch sometimes)

You can’t expect people to play fair, or to be fair. You can’t expect to receive what you think is your due. And you have to learn to get over it. 

Yes, you may have to move on. Or push so much you get fired. But eventually you need to learn to get over it, and let these little injustices roll off your back. Because life is unjust.

Children are raised to share, and play fair, and do unto others. And they get this expectation that everybody else in going to do this too. But when they start growing up, they realize that in the real world people don’t play fair. Companies exist to profit, and they are designed to profit at the expense of others. And this is okay. It is reality. It’s not nice, but it is reality. 

And a man learns what level of injustice he can choose to be okay with. What level of injustice is worth the effort of pushing against, or fleeing from, and what’s not worth the fight. It will be different for everyone. But he must learn what that level is for him, what amount of unfairness he is strong enough or mature enough to rise above and choose not to be shaken or roused by. 

Otherwise he will be tossed around and controlled by it forever. Always at its mercy. That’s no way to live. 

And I’m not talking about being a door mat either. That’s a whole different thing. 

You watch. You’ll see grown men who are completely controlled by their sense of perceived injustice, and they’re miserable. “A licensed journeyman shouldn’t have to do XYZ task - that’s for apprentices.” “This job is being run all wrong. It’s not how I’d do it. I’m better than that.” Etc. Their whole day/week/job is spoiled by this petulance. You’ll see it over and over. 

Okay, that’s enough of my whining. As you were.


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## RaptorsSparky

telsa said:


> It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.
> 
> Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.
> 
> It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.
> 
> Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)
> 
> In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented.
> 
> The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.
> 
> Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle.
> 
> See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.


haha interesting. I must have the genes to be a top shelf electrician cuz I'm definitely an introvert and i don't chat up just anybody lol. very reserved.


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## Coppersmith

AKFEnergy said:


> With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all.


The honest way to get promoted is to just do your job the best you can and hope someone who has the power to promote you sees how good you are.

There are dishonest and immoral ways to get promoted which I personally never used but have seen used. Perhaps that is why I was never a foreman.

However, you have probably been told before that "we make our own conditions". Therefore, if you really want to be in charge and also avoid all the political BS, your best course of action is to open your own shop. That's the best promotion you can get. You select the jobs, you make all the money, you never get laid off. That's what I did and I have never regretted it.


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## Helmut

RaptorsSparky said:


> The thing thats different in this situation is that we use to have weekly monday morning safety meetings at the shop and i always say good morning to him. so its not like I've said one word to him in the 2 years i worked here.



Do you shower regularly?


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## RaptorsSparky

Helmut said:


> Do you shower regularly?


once a day


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## stiffneck

AKFEnergy said:


> With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all.
> 
> Seriously, how does anyone get promoted anyway? Murder my foreman for the spot to open up, or play hop scotch with electrical companies?
> 
> If my first line in the chain sees me as a threat because he thinks I'm trying to take his job, or he just doesn't like me (and I have heard this personally) then _your damn right I wanna speak to the man in charge_. A foreman who doesn't communicate other than spewing rudeness is allowed to by the super, who is encouraged by his PM...probably to keep cost down, right?
> 
> ...I need to speak to HIS boss, and if he says F'k off then I have my answer. I'll be forced to leave, or I'd be a fool to stay. Who the hell wants to be where they can't spread their wings and grow? My bad, for not being your damn buddy from way back.
> 
> I'm going through a similar situation now, so I know the feeling. That frat boy, clique stuff it rampant, and there are good men and women who want no part of it. Somehow you should WANT to be a part of that nonsense to either be let down and make a fool out of yourself, or become the person you hate the most.
> 
> I know all electrical cant be like this. But when you encounter those characteristics and you live it long enough, it WILL warp you.



You've listed multiple scenarios here, so I will break them down based on my experience.
1. Not everyone gets promoted, because there are fewer openings the higher up the food chain you go. If promotion is necessary for U, learn to play golf or find out where the "in" group meets and start sucking up. The other option, which is what I'm doing is continue to do good work, keep my hands to myself and noise out of other peoples business. Promotion for me is not that important, so when I get passed over by suckuulants, I don't get bent out of shape over it. Currently enjoying as Supervisor #5 gets hauled upstairs and grilled almost every week. Mind you here, the Airport staff is currently battling Downtown, the "parent" owner of the Airport. That's why my supervisor hasn't been fired...yet, among other problems.
2. Been there and experience that. Follow company procedure and be sure to dot all the I's and cross all the T's and save all paper work. Other option is to leave and go somewhere else. This is one of those situations where you have to look the other way...too a point or be prepared for the worst. Supervisor #3 back in the day was deliberately wrecking the shop. The reason? To contract out more of the work and reduce overtime/staff. The pay-off? One provable item that can't be ignored is he got his son in Local-1 apprenticeship three different times. And, his son washed out all three times because he's a POS just like his father. Upper management was fine with it at the time. Today, all those POS are gone and I'm still here. I can leave anytime I want to as well.
3. For more modern times I've been challenged with two Millennials who are 35-37 years old, but act like 5 years old. One of these idiots tried taking the truck keys away from another co-worker to drive the truck back to the shop and leave him out in the "Movement area" of an Airport, once the 6th busiest in the nation. Tried blaming me as a Lead, stated that I wasn't following the Foreman's work order and also pulled the race card on the Foreman who drove out there and brought his worthless asx back to the shop. In the past, this idiot has gone over my head without bring up issue with me first. One example is him complaining that another co-worker wasn't doing his share of work and I was "covering" for the co-worker. Didn't bother to complain to me first, just went right up and ran his mouth. Today, he is on a watch list, can't be assigned to work with just anybody, anywhere and steers clear of me.
4. I've been thru quite a bit and I haven't allowed it to "warp" me. I always tell the youngsters to always do good work. Quality should never suffer, but at the same time the best way to fuxk a bad boss is to do exactly what the boss said, don't forget CYA when doing so


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## AKFEnergy

Coppersmith said:


> The honest way to get promoted is to just do your job the best you can and hope someone who has the power to promote you sees how good you are.
> 
> There are dishonest and immoral ways to get promoted which I personally never used but have seen used. Perhaps that is why I was never a foreman.
> 
> However, you have probably been told before that "we make our own conditions". Therefore, if you really want to be in charge and also avoid all the political BS, your best course of action is to open your own shop. That's the best promotion you can get. You select the jobs, you make all the money, you never get laid off. That's what I did and I have never regretted it.


I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me. 

I'm already making plans to get my Masters. Studying a bit every morning, watching videos and listening to you guys. It would be asinine for me to make my employer money (and he HAS to be making a lot of money) and not make any for myself.


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## nrp3

When your boss, owner etc, is successful then he/she deserves to get more for taking all the risks of running the business. Furthermore, while I'm all for fair compensation, a lot of people don't realize how much it costs to run things. I am still learning, sometimes painfully.


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## Coppersmith

AKFEnergy said:


> I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me.


If you and a coworker are both in line for a promotion, your coworker could whisper bad things about you to the supervisor or could sabotage your work. 

Instead you could target the supervisor. There are many ways to get favorable treatment (including promotion) from a supervisor that will cause you to jump ahead of a similarly skilled person who is being honest. The more dishonest and immoral you are willing to be, the bigger the skill gap you can jump. Here are a few examples. This is for intellectual discussion only. I’m not suggesting you attempt any of them.

*Stroke their ego.
*Become friends.
*Become drinking buddies.
*Offer them drugs.
*Use drugs together.
*Become their drug dealer.
*Flirt with them (if they are into you).
*Offer sex (if they are into you).
*Threaten to reveal a secret you found out about which would embarrass them or cause them to be in trouble with a spouse, supervisor, or the law. (blackmail)
*Entice them into a compromising position then blackmail them.
*Threaten them with physical harm.
*Hold their loved one for ransom.
*Kill them so there is an opening for a new person.


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## telsa

AKFEnergy said:


> I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me.
> 
> I'm already making plans to get my Masters. Studying a bit every morning, watching videos and listening to you guys. It would be asinine for me to make my employer money (and he HAS to be making a lot of money) and not make any for myself.


You are mistaken, here.

There is simply NO END of ways for a fouled up manager to fritter away what seems to be a ton of money -- because he runs his shop the same way that he runs his crews -- poorly.

What would you think of a savvy PM who smoked a $80,000 custom component in seconds? What happened to all of the Big Profits on that job?

Up the line the boners become EPIC.

Hit main optical fibre link from San Francisco to Nevada... back-charged $1,000,000 per hour. It was a good thing he was insured. Heh.

Lost his insurance coverage -- from everybody, anybody. :vs_laugh:

You can't fix stupid.

The PM goof went on to cost his next foolish employer to lose a couple of hundred-grand before someone got wise -- and really checked out his track record. He's no longer in our trade.


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## AKFEnergy

Coppersmith said:


> If you and a coworker are both in line for a promotion, your coworker could whisper bad things about you to the supervisor or could sabotage your work.
> 
> Instead you could target the supervisor. There are many ways to get favorable treatment (including promotion) from a supervisor that will cause you to jump ahead of a similarly skilled person who is being honest. The more dishonest and immoral you are willing to be, the bigger the skill gap you can jump. Here are a few examples. This is for intellectual discussion only. I’m not suggesting you attempt any of them.
> 
> *Stroke their ego.
> *Become friends.
> *Become drinking buddies.
> *Offer them drugs.
> *Use drugs together.
> *Become their drug dealer.
> *Flirt with them (if they are into you).
> *Offer sex (if they are into you).
> *Threaten to reveal a secret you found out about which would embarrass them or cause them to be in trouble with a spouse, supervisor, or the law. (blackmail)
> *Entice them into a compromising position then blackmail them.
> *Threaten them with physical harm.
> *Hold their loved one for ransom.
> *Kill them so there is an opening for a new person.


I fail to find the humor in this if this was your intent. I know of at least the Blackmail for sure, drugs I know of for sure including the drinking.
I have had a personal experience with a supervisor fighting employees under him in broad daylight so physical harm for sure.

Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.


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## Coppersmith

AKFEnergy said:


> I fail to find the humor in this if this was your intent.


I was not attempting to be humorous at all. I was giving you an honest assessment. I was answering the question more broadly than a journeyman attempting to move up to foreman. Some promotions in the business world are worth a lot more money or status. But even at low level jobs, jealousy can cause people to do horrible things. Children have killed their parents to take over their businesses.


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## splatz

AKFEnergy said:


> Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.


The good news is, you're not a sociopath. Congratulations! 

The bad news is, as mentioned life is not fair, and you are not suited to a lot of the usual ways to get ahead. You're going to have to do what you can with hard work, dedication, expertise, productivity, knowledge, integrity, etc. Oof. Well, maybe it will work out for _you._ 



> A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.


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## brian john

AKFEnergy said:


> Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.


Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.

This is more the way of the world than the exception.


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## HackWork

brian john said:


> Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.
> 
> This is more the way of the world than the exception.


I killed a man for a 50 cent raise. I'd do it again for a quarter.


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## MechanicalDVR

Coppersmith said:


> I was not attempting to be humorous at all. I was giving you an honest assessment. I was answering the question more broadly than a journeyman attempting to move up to foreman. Some promotions in the business world are worth a lot more money or status. But even at low level jobs, jealousy can cause people to do horrible things. *Children have killed their parents to take over their businesses.*





brian john said:


> Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.
> 
> *This is more the way of the world than the exception.*



Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/n-j-mansion-fire-man-accused-killing-brother-s-family-n975771


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## splatz

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/n-j-mansion-fire-man-accused-killing-brother-s-family-n975771


In California, this is known as a "Menendez Takeover" 

In New Jersey, this is known as "Tuesday."


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## MechanicalDVR

splatz said:


> In California, this is known as a "Menendez Takeover"
> 
> In New Jersey, this is known as "Tuesday."



Well, had he not killed the kids I'd agree!

That was just in real poor taste on his part.


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## telsa

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/n-j-mansion-fire-man-accused-killing-brother-s-family-n975771


The business at issue was Square One -- the digital firm that handles credit cards.

Some here may know of it.

The murderer was on disability! The money pouring in was huge.

Without a doubt Paul has the Dark Triad of personality traits.


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## tjb

This turned into a pretty dumb thread.


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## MikeFL

telsa said:


> The business at issue was Square One -- the digital firm that handles credit cards.
> 
> Some here may know of it.
> 
> ...


Different company. The cc processing company is Square, Inc aka Square Up.

Those guys in NJ/NY had some network/ database management company.


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## splatz

tjb said:


> This turned into a pretty dumb thread.


To be fair, it started out pretty dumb.


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## HertzHound

The thread didn’t really start out as five stars. I guess I have always been the guy to just do his job and not worry about striking up a conversation with the boss when/if he walks the job. I think he respects that. 

I remember seeing the house on fire on the front page and the story being big news when it happened. I haven’t heard much about it lately. I’m two towns away. For some reason I want to say that town has had other case of partnerships going bad and making the paper. That MAGA guy has a golf course there. Another golf course there was wired for surveillance by the FBI. They got the guy that owned it for some Wall Street fraud. He’s still in prison.


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## Bird dog

splatz said:


> To be fair, it started out pretty dumb.


Well, the OP got a badly needed reality check. Did anyone tell him to pucker up buttercup?


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## MechanicalDVR

HertzHound said:


> The thread didn’t really start out as five stars. I guess I have always been the guy to just do his job and not worry about striking up a conversation with the boss when/if he walks the job. I think he respects that.
> 
> I remember seeing the house on fire on the front page and the story being big news when it happened. I haven’t heard much about it lately. I’m two towns away. For some reason I want to say that town has had other case of partnerships going bad and making the paper. That MAGA guy has a golf course there. *Another golf course there was wired for surveillance by the FBI. They got the guy that owned it for some Wall Street fraud. He’s still in prison.*


You mean Brennan and Due Process Stables?


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## HertzHound

MechanicalDVR said:


> You mean Brennan and Due Process Stables?


Yeah that’s the one. The guy that bought it at auction after it was seized, got his start from Brennan. Maybe something else going on their:vs_cool: He built a big house on the property. That was the biggest house I ever wired. Looked like a hotel. Plus the two flanking houses/offices and pool house. Three floors. 12,000 sq foot per floor. His neighbor complained that the house was going to block the view of the golf course. So he didn’t get the variance to go to that height. He had to build the one floor into the ground. So he built a hill down the road and planted trees across the top of the hill. Kind of like a big middle finger. Man it must be nice to have money. 

Around that time there was another mansion going up. It was almost complete. It had a fire. I think they lost the whole house. It had some sort of windows that couldn’t be broken. I think that was one of the reasons it was a total loss.


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## MechanicalDVR

HertzHound said:


> Yeah that’s the one. The guy that bought it at auction after it was seized, got his start from Brennan. Maybe something else going on their:vs_cool: He built a big house on the property. That was the biggest house I ever wired. Looked like a hotel. Plus the two flanking houses/offices and pool house. Three floors. 12,000 sq foot per floor. His neighbor complained that the house was going to block the view of the golf course. So he didn’t get the variance to go to that height. He had to build the one floor into the ground. So he built a hill down the road and planted trees across the top of the hill. Kind of like a big middle finger. Man it must be nice to have money.
> 
> Around that time there was another mansion going up. It was almost complete. It had a fire. I think they lost the whole house. It had some sort of windows that couldn’t be broken. I think that was one of the reasons it was a total loss.



I did several jobs at Due Process and at Brennan's house in Wall and the house his wife (ex)has in Allenhurst, along with his horse farm business.

I remember something about the bulletproof windows at that other house. Makes you wonder just how paranoid you need to be to go that route?


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## telsa

Paranoia at that scale is not paranoia.

The castle is built as a fortress out of guilt and projection.

The owner assumes that everyone is as criminal as they, themselves, are.


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## quarky2001

emtnut said:


> Yep, and ears work well for that, at least always did for me :biggrin:
> 
> Turning around to see if the boss winks at you doesn't fall into the safety category.


If I relied only on my ears to keep me safe on the jobsite, I'd be blind and dead.

There are always welders lighting up an arc in a new location, not telling anyone or setting up a screen. Seeing that glow in your peripheral vision tells you to look away.

There are also other major dangers with not looking around... what happens if you're getting ready to put a 90 on the very end of a brand new 10' stick of 1" EMT, and don't do a shoulder check to see what's behind you? You clock someone in the face with the tail end of the pipe, knocking out teeth and drawing blood.

Props to OP for staying aware of their surroundings. I feel very sorry for anyone who gets stuck on a site with a sparky that relies on only their ears for safety!


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## tjb

(Duplicate post)


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## tjb

Pretty sure he didn’t say “only ears, and keep my eyes screwed shut.”


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## emtnut

quarky2001 said:


> If I relied only on my ears to keep me safe on the jobsite, I'd be blind and dead.
> 
> There are always welders lighting up an arc in a new location, not telling anyone or setting up a screen. Seeing that glow in your peripheral vision tells you to look away.
> 
> There are also other major dangers with not looking around... what happens if you're getting ready to put a 90 on the very end of a brand new 10' stick of 1" EMT, and don't do a shoulder check to see what's behind you? You clock someone in the face with the tail end of the pipe, knocking out teeth and drawing blood.
> 
> Props to OP for staying aware of their surroundings. I feel very sorry for anyone who gets stuck on a site with a sparky that relies on only their ears for safety!


This thread was about the boss not winking at him. Or maybe giving him a hug everytime he saw him :biggrin:

Oh, and I know how to work on a job site :wink:


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## emtnut

tjb said:


> Pretty sure he didn’t say “only ears, and keep my eyes screwed shut.”


Thanks TJ ... you're the first guy I like from New Hampshire :biggrin:


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## tjb

emtnut said:


> Thanks TJ ... you're the first guy I like from New Hampshire :biggrin:




Grew up in Maine, born in Pennsylvania, so I’m not sure where that leaves me ... but I do like it here!


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## RaptorsSparky

To all the haters in this thread. This same guy told me he wants to keep me as a long term employee today.


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## brian john

RaptorsSparky said:


> To all the haters in this thread. This same guy told me he wants to keep me as a long term employee today.


Nobody hates you but that is another sign of paranoia, what was said is you are a BIG PU**Y::surprise::wink:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## Coppersmith

RaptorsSparky said:


> This same guy told me he wants to keep me as a long term employee today.


I hope you take that comment with a grain of salt. No employer can be held to the promise of long term employment. It's a sign that he likes you, but things change, both business and personal. Don't make any long term commitments based on what he says. If you always assume each day at work is your last (but don't stress about it), you will be better prepared financially and emotionally.


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## OhhEnnEmm

It's commonplace as muck in apprenticeships... My nephew wanted to follow after myself n his old man, we couldn't take him on due to travelling they said he needs to report to an academy. Ended up getting him in at a electricians who we know since the first role he took on ended up with him being INSANELY taken advantage of. They bullied him around too, like a bunch of children they gave the final straw by making him electrocute himself or else he'd have to take "the forfeit"... 

Needless to say, the original employers have been reported, though no outcome as of yet. He's loving it though at my mates place. Come the end of it he'll be out and about with me and his dad too...

It's not that you will always face it, but as an apprentice it can be really bad. He might be a bit of a tit, but at least hes not bullying you...

Hope things get better for you and you get the respect you deserve..


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## flyboy

OhhEnnEmm said:


> It's commonplace as muck in apprenticeships... My nephew wanted to follow after myself n his old man, we couldn't take him on due to travelling they said he needs to report to an academy. Ended up getting him in at a electricians who we know since the first role he took on ended up with him being INSANELY taken advantage of. They bullied him around too, like a bunch of children they gave the final straw by making him electrocute himself or else he'd have to take "the forfeit"...
> 
> Needless to say, the original employers have been reported, though no outcome as of yet. He's loving it though at my mates place. Come the end of it he'll be out and about with me and his dad too...
> 
> It's not that you will always face it, but as an apprentice it can be really bad. *He might be a bit of a tit*, but at least hes not bullying you...
> 
> *Hope things get better for you and you get the respect you deserve*..


What does "he might be a bit of tit" mean? Respect is earned.


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## Coppersmith

flyboy said:


> What does "he might be a bit of tit" mean? Respect is earned.


I found this: 

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/tit-stupid.1532071/


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## flyboy

Coppersmith said:


> I found this:
> 
> https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/tit-stupid.1532071/


n

I'm such a "tit". :biggrin:


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## phucxuanbui

it's awful


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## macmikeman

RaptorsSparky said:


> To all the haters in this thread. This same guy told me he wants to keep me as a long term employee today.


Did he put his head on your shoulders when he told you that?


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## Martine

“To all the haters” 

Ok there Eminem


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## brian john

flyboy said:


> n
> 
> I'm such a "SH*T". :biggrin:


*
FIXED IT FOR you.


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## emtnut

Martine said:


> “To all the haters”
> 
> Ok there Eminem


Isn't that M&M ??

:biggrin:


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## Diesel2Electric

I've worked for a company that had a shop manager who believed that apprentices weren't worth talking to until they became JW's. He wouldn't say a word to any apprentice on the job site, even if you were standing right there.

It's an old way of doing things. I believe everyone should be treated as an equal and treated with respect. People put way too big of an emphasis on being a JW. The license and experience is valuable but if someone is an apprentice they can be ten times better than a JW...


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## Fist of lightning

Chain of command I don’t even look at the bosses or pms when they are on site . 

As an apprentice I’m suppose to speak when spoken to and follow chain of commmand not talk to the higher ups to feel good or make my presence felt .

When I max out and become a jman I’ll have no problem talking to the big wigs and introducing my self .

But untill then my job is to wrk not talk to men higher on the chain than me .

Example theirs an apprentice who always goes to the Forman and asks questions instead of going to his jman , now the jman does not show him anything Bc he always jumps the chain of command .


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## Wirenut951

RaptorsSparky said:


> Ive worked for this company for 2 years now and every time he comes to site he avoids all eye contact with me and ignores me at all costs. Im only an apprentice so I report to my journeyman and rarely talk to the boss. But, I just find it dis respectful that he doesn't even acknowledge a long time employee who never calls in sick or misses any days.


I wouldn't call it disrespect necessarily but a good boss should acknowledge ALL exceptional employees. Morale is a very important thing in a company and the smallest thing like the boss shaking an apprentices hand and letting him know he is appreciated goes a long way. Some supervisors have no concept of this.


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## N4tionalNYC

The fact the boss says nothing says a lot. Everything is going good.


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## The_Modifier

N4tionalNYC said:


> The fact the boss says nothing says a lot.



Agreed, the boss probably already figured out no to argue with a fool- people won't be able to tell the difference.:wink:

And the fact that the post is almost a year old? :vs_laugh:


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## Jfort19

*More to the story?*

In my experience, some bosses are great and will show their appreciation with a company lunch, or a if you are doing your job well. Most good bosses understand the bottom line and that happy workers produce at the highest level. Other bosses I've worked for carry grudges against certain workers even though that worker is producing well. 

In my experience, if you are looking to be noticed by your boss, don't expect him to come up to you and get to know you on a personal level.

You get noticed by:

1) Saving his ass
2) Exceeding time and quantity expectations for material installations (this is what makes him money)
3) Making his life easier
4) Taking initiative
5) Going above and beyond
6) Having all required tools to do the job
7) Being a key part of the solution, not creating more problems for him

Also, good bosses respect the chain of command. Just how it would not be right for that boss to come down and reprimand the crew face to face, undermining your foreman. If he is worth his salt, he will speak with your direct foreman, the your direct foreman will handle things his way with you directly. Don't consider that a weak move, that is just him respecting the chain of command, which is a key part of any healthy job structure.


----------

