# Ground Rods



## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi guys, I have been using a slugg hammer to drive ground rods and other than using a hammer drill I was wondering, what do you guys use to drive ground rods?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

I would use someone other than me....

Pete


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Here in Canada, we dig a hole, throw in a ground plate, cover it up with dirt. Done!

In the US, you guys buy a 10' ground rod, cut off seven feet, hide that piece in the back of the truck, pound in the 3' piece. Done!


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

If a hammer drill is not available, I use a heavy fence post driver until it bottoms out on the dirt...then finish it off with a sledge hammer. But mostly, I do like Pete^^^...lol.


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## zapped_electric (May 24, 2013)

You can buy a decent used Hilti TE905 or bigger off eBay for less then $1000. Doesn't take too many gnd rods to pay for itself.

Save your back.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I bought a used Bosch demolition hammer off another retiring sparky. I'd probably bring a generator along if I had to. It actually makes driving ground rods fun, if you can believe that after driving them by hand for years!!!:thumbup:


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Pete m. said:


> I would use someone other than me....
> 
> Pete


Thanks Pete, good help is hard to find.


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

99cents said:


> Here in Canada, we dig a hole, throw in a ground plate, cover it up with dirt. Done!
> 
> In the US, you guys buy a 10' ground rod, cut off seven feet, hide that piece in the back of the truck, pound in the 3' piece. Done!



Thanks 99 cents, I like to sleep nights knowing the house I worked on is not going to burn down.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I use a big gulp full of water.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hilt TE905AVR.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I bought a medium size demo hammer from Harbor Freight (about $150) 3-4 years ago. Cut off a chisel, taped on/welded a RMC coupling to the end.

Most of the time it takes about 2 min. for an 8 ft.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

CopperSlave said:


> If a hammer drill is not available, I use a heavy* fence post driver *until it bottoms out on the dirt...then finish it off with a sledge hammer. But mostly, I do like Pete^^^...lol.



That's what we use and my guys love it. Drove an 8' rod in less than a minute in clay soil.


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I bought a medium size demo hammer from Harbor Freight (about $150) 3-4 years ago. Cut off a chisel, taped on/welded a RMC coupling to the end.
> 
> Most of the time it takes about 2 min. for an 8 ft.


I would like a little more info on the hammer that you purchased. What's the name and model number? Do you think they still have them available? How does it work in very dry soil? Thanks for your input.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

zapped_electric said:


> You can buy a decent used Hilti TE905 or bigger off eBay for less then $1000. Doesn't take too many gnd rods to pay for itself.
> 
> Save your back.


Or you can buy a brand new Makita or Bosch of the same size for less than half the price and it will work the same for the same amount of time. :thumbsup:


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> Or you can buy a brand new Makita or Bosch of the same size for less than half the price and it will work the same for the same amount of time. :thumbsup:


I have a Bosch 11240 Hammer and that takes a great deal of time and effort to drive a rod a foot. I guess it's the type of soil in Virginia that is the problem. I can do the job faster with a sludge hammer, but it's hard on the body.:hammer:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

MTFULTZ said:


> I have a Bosch 11240 Hammer and that takes a great deal of time and effort to drive a rod a foot. I guess it's the type of soil in Virginia that is the problem. I can do the job faster with a sludge hammer, but it's hard on the body.:hammer:


IMO if you can do it faster by hand than with an SDS Max tool, you are using the tool wrong. :whistling2:


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> IMO if you can do it faster by hand than with an SDS Max tool, you are using the tool wrong. :whistling2:



Speedy Petey, you may have a point. I have been driving them so long by hand, I may not be using the hammer right. I will give it some practice.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

MTFULTZ said:


> Speedy Petey, you may have a point. I have been driving them so long by hand, I may not be using the hammer right. I will give it some practice.


Also the right drive head is essential.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> IMO if you can do it faster by hand than with an SDS Max tool, you are using the tool wrong. :whistling2:


Maybe he is a strong guy.

I can see a strong guy with a heavy hammer and good aim beating an SDS max. 


OTH I would be much quicker with the SDS max and I would still be able to work the rest of the day. :laughing:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

We use a milwaukee macho still with a ground rod driver. Unless we hit a rock, it usually just takes a few minutes to drive a ground rod.


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> Also the right drive head is essential.


I got a ground rod driver head with the tool.:thumbsup:


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

MTFULTZ said:


> Thanks 99 cents, I like to sleep nights knowing the house I worked on is not going to burn down.


Not sure if this is sacasm you intend so let me ask. How does grounding prevent a house fro burning down? This is a serious question as i sit on the section 10 (grounding and bonding) committee for the CEC.

Grounding is for voltage stabilization and creating equipotential plane and to prevent touch and step voltages. Nothing about preventing fires other than maybe disipating the energy from a HV contact or lightning strike. in terms of every day use of grounding there should be no current of any concequence on the ground wire (there is almost always some) as that is the purpose of the grounded conductor or neutral (white wire)

The cut the 10 foot rod down I think is intended as sarcasm but I have seen this in areas with shallow clay hardpan. I once did a daycare and the ground had so much clay we drilled a hole 3 feet into the clay then used the excavator to push the rods down. 1 curled back up so we added another but I think it took 4 tries to get 2 straight rods into the ground. The first attempt to use the demo hammer spent an hour to drive 3 inches. The sledge hammer eventually hit the handle and broke. the manual hammer did little better than the electric one 

After that Ground plates were approved for use in Canada and except for the counterpoise on a high voltage install i don't see many rods here anymore. We also don't see ground wires larger than #6 on services under 750 volts either.


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Shane B said:


> We use a milwaukee macho still with a ground rod driver. Unless we hit a rock, it usually just takes a few minutes to drive a ground rod.



Is that Georgia clay Shane B?:gun_bandana:


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## MTFULTZ (Apr 27, 2013)

Mshea said:


> Not sure if this is sacasm you intend so let me ask. How does grounding prevent a house fro burning down? This is a serious question as i sit on the section 10 (grounding and bonding) committee for the CEC.
> 
> Grounding is for voltage stabilization and creating equipotential plane and to prevent touch and step voltages. Nothing about preventing fires other than maybe disipating the energy from a HV contact or lightning strike. in terms of every day use of grounding there should be no current of any concequence on the ground wire (there is almost always some) as that is the purpose of the grounded conductor or neutral (white wire)
> 
> ...


No sacasm intended just safety. If you cut corners on Grounding you will cut corners on everything else. Do the job right the first time and you have nothing to haunt you in the future.:thumbsup:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

MTFULTZ said:


> Is that Georgia clay Shane B?:gun_bandana:



It is, I have only driven ground rods in Georgia and know how difficult it can be at times, but from what I've heard from other guys that have traveled the country working they say it is some of the toughest to drive one in.:sweatdrop:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MTFULTZ said:


> No sacasm intended just safety. If you cut corners on Grounding you will cut corners on everything else. Do the job right the first time and you have nothing to haunt you in the future.:thumbsup:


I would be extremely surprised if Mshea's work has any shortcuts. 

I have been reading his posts for a long time and he is a stickler for good work and following the code. 

The questions he raises about electrodes are legitimate ones.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

I drive most ground rods with nothing more than my bare hands, no tool required. In the cases where I do need a tool I use a Dewalt macho drill with the right driver. Sometimes I even tape the trigger down and set the drill on top of the rod and let it drive it down with it's own weight while I work on other things.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I use a Milwaukee demo hammer drill with ground rod driver and a sledge hammer. 

A lot of clay and rock here make some rods a bitch to drive.

Where I used to live was mostly sand and we drove rods with a 5 lb sledge hammer.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

MTFULTZ said:


> Hi guys, I have been using a slugg hammer to drive ground rods and other than using a hammer drill I was wondering, what do you guys use to drive ground rods?


My subordinates


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

1/2 " emt usually about 1-2' long in my left hand_ (made over the Grod) _whatever ham drill is available in my left into it....

but most are functionally useless compared to a Ufer (250.52(3))

~CS~


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTFULTZ said:


> Hi guys, I have been using a slugg hammer to drive ground rods and other than using a hammer drill I was wondering, what do you guys use to drive ground rods?


Currently Post pounder.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Bosch 11316EVS the biggest problem is that it can mushroom the top of the ground rod!!!:thumbup:


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Shane B said:


> It is, I have only driven ground rods in Georgia and know how difficult it can be at times, but from what I've heard from other guys that have traveled the country working they say it is some of the toughest to drive one in.:sweatdrop:


Red shale of ne pa sux balz!


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Can nobody else drive em with your hands? I guess living in Forida has it's advantages.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wendon said:


> Bosch 11316EVS the biggest problem is that it can mushroom the top of the ground rod!!!:thumbup:


Problem solved. :whistling2:


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Hilt TE905AVR.


That tool is cool, and safe, but I just lift the drill/demo hammer over my head holding it by the driver end and set it on the rod. I tape up the trigger first and it drives itself. I can run the ground wire while that's happening.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

MTFULTZ said:


> I would like a little more info on the hammer that you purchased. What's the name and model number? Do you think they still have them available? How does it work in very dry soil? Thanks for your input.


This isn't like mine, but the only one I could find online. 
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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Problem solved. :whistling2:


Got the Bosch version but it can mushroom the top of the ground rod.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

99cents said:


> Here in Canada, we dig a hole, throw in a ground plate, cover it up with dirt. Done!
> 
> In the US, you guys buy a 10' ground rod, cut off seven feet, hide that piece in the back of the truck, pound in the 3' piece. Done!


Is that what we do in the US?? Never seen that... Have you been here and seen it done?? Was it because you were the one who did it?? mini sledge hammer to heavy aye :/ come to Florida ground is so soft you can almost push it in.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wendon said:


> Got the Bosch version but it can mushroom the top of the ground rod.


Did you get the right size?


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

CFL said:


> Can nobody else drive em with your hands? I guess living in Forida has it's advantages.


Yup sure does


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> This isn't like mine, but the only one I could find online.
> *10 Amp, 120 Volt Demolition Hammer*
> 
> 
> ...


The ft. lbs is the important thing

The above model is 10 amp with 3100 BPM and 9 ft. lb

The Bosch 11316 EVS is 14 amps with 1890 BPM and 18.4 ft. lb.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Did you get the right size?


That might be the problem as the driver head I have seems to fit a 5/8 rod loosely. I don't know if Bosch makes more than 1 size. Does the company you linked to make different sizes?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

So did anybody else read where the OP said no hammer drills??? Or do we just not give a **** what the OP asked?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> So did anybody else read where the OP said no hammer drills??? Or do we just not give a **** what the OP asked?


People around here barely look at op's post i noticed


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> So did anybody else read where the OP said no hammer drills??? Or do we just not give a **** what the OP asked?


I don't use a hammer drill, I use a demolition hammer!:thumbup: And no I don't care what the OP asked, I'm telling him what he needs to use!:laughing::laughing:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Cletis said:


> People around here barely look at op's post i noticed


..............and the pot calls the kettles black!!!:laughing::laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Yep, if you get tired of slamming into solid rock and you cut the rod down you must have hacked the rest of the job and the whole building will explode killing lots of children, think of the children!!!!!!!!!!


:laughing: :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> So did anybody else read where the OP said no hammer drills??? Or do we just not give a **** what the OP asked?


The Hilti TE905 is not a hammer drill.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wendon said:


> ..............and the pot calls the kettles black!!!:laughing::laughing:


I think the Cletis and the OP are one in the same.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Was I talking to you?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Quite frankly if you've_ GOT_ to carry a ham drill just for Grods you're a bit of a wuss....


~CS~


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## Ewcelectric (Nov 3, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Quite frankly if you've_ GOT_ to carry a ham drill just for Grods you're a bit of a wuss....
> 
> 
> ~CS~


Depends. If I'm paying employees that take 1 more hour to install grods by hand over using a rotary or demolition hammer, the machine pays for itself in a dozen regular installs. Or 3 dozen installs if you go with hilti for the extra initial cost, repair bills and rental costs while said unit is being repaired. 


I've honestly probably installed rods in every different way. 
Easiest to hardest IMO
1) back hoe, or mini excavator. 
2) rotary or demo hammer
3) water hose
4) pipe with a big weight on the end. Has to be finished up with sledge
5) sledge. I always wrap scrap bare copper around the handle about 3" long where the handle gets hit all the time. Saves the handles.


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## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

Oh yeah, everyone is going to spend all day driving ground rods on a simple service change in New England rock just to make 100% sure that there are two full eight foot ground rods properly sunk into the ground.  Yeah, I've never heard of a single soul cutting a ground rod and mushrooming the head. Yeah, its so important in homes with a solid water ground that you don't cut a single inch off that ground rod. 

Lets get the excavator out for that service change. :laughing:


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Mshea said:


> After that Ground plates were approved for use in Canada and except for the counterpoise on a high voltage install i don't see many rods here anymore. We also don't see ground wires larger than #6 on services under 750 volts either.


Don't come out to Alberta then.. Rods are still fairly common in the patch.. And I think the norm for the main ground is 2/0, with #2 tails to steel, motors, JBs, etc.. Did one ground grid in Edmonton with 750 MCM to the 3 - 20 foot rods.. They wanted 60' rods, but it passed their test with 5 feet contacting the ground..

To answer the OPs question... Some type of an electric jack hammer with a rod pounder adapter.. That or if we have to a post type pounder, but the jack hammer is my weapon of choice....


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

From time to time I use the air powered demo hammer with ground rod driver to drive the rods in.

But guys just becarefull which class of air driven demo hammer units some can have insane power level which it can make the ground rods look like Bretzel ( Pretzel ) 

Merci,
Marc


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well Florida commercial job we drive them in and we go down 40 foot plus
delta 3 point 3/4" copper coated rods. We use the new slip on rod couplings they dont screw on screw ons come loose during driving. Plus we sharpen the point on the first rod so it cuts down easy . And for all the guys from up north try driving into coral heres one of my guys we have a ground rod tip on the rod drill and a ground rod bang coupling on the rod so you dont mess up the threads on the rod . After 16 rods per job it gets old


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Using hearing and eye protection is important.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

99cents said:


> Here in Canada, we dig a hole, throw in a ground plate, cover it up with dirt. Done!
> 
> In the US, you guys buy a 10' ground rod, cut off seven feet, hide that piece in the back of the truck, pound in the 3' piece. Done!


Lol shhhhhhhh


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

I rather just use a sledgehammer and slug-o to drive rods.


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## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

1. Get ladder and sledge. 

2. Climb ladder. 

3. Swing sledge. 

4. Repeat. 

5. Throw acorn on/attach wire/etc.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

owl said:


> 1. Get ladder and sledge.
> 
> 2. Climb ladder.
> 
> ...


Put acorn on first so that when the end of the rod mushrooms you are not screwed.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Put acorn on first so that when the end of the rod mushrooms you are not screwed.


Never do and never have a problem getting it on the rod.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> Never do and never have a problem getting it on the rod.


It must be nice.

In my area it almost always happens, way to many rocks.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

backstay said:


> Never do and never have a problem getting it on the rod.


I got a good SDS Max ground rod driver that won't let the ground rod mushroom, much nicer than the typical kind.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Put acorn on first so that when the end of the rod mushrooms you are not screwed.


Fortunately, those rods are far and few between. I usually notice it's too far mushroomed after the fact...


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

zapped_electric said:


> You can buy a decent used Hilti TE905 or bigger off eBay for less then $1000. Doesn't take too many gnd rods to pay for itself.
> 
> Save your back.


 i have a milwuakee that only cost 200. and its works just fine, even in rocky earth we have here. rocks do slow it down!


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