# The best way to abandon an old wire.



## doubleoh7

Ianc435 said:


> What is the best and safest wat to abandon a wire??
> 
> I heard cap single wire and leave it in wall. I have heard tieing all wires together under one wire nut? What is technically the safest and legal way to do it besides ripping the whole wall down?? What is everbody's thoughts.


 
Remove the cable back to the junction box where it originates from, or terminate it in an accessable junction box with a cover.


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## randas

I assume your talking about abandoning a cable where both ends are disconnected. 
If this is the case there is no code covering it because the cable is now just garbage in the wall. 
I like to twist all the conductors together just incase someone manages to find it and attempt to do something stupid with it.


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## MDShunk

Here's a zinger for you. 

There's no NEC requirement that the end of an abandoned cable, energized or not, be inside a junction box. You can tape or wire nut it off and stuff it inside the wall, if you want to, and that's legal.


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## HARRY304E

MDShunk said:


> Here's a zinger for you.
> 
> There's no NEC requirement that the end of an abandoned cable, energized or not, be inside a junction box. You can tape or wire nut it off and stuff it inside the wall, if you want to, and that's legal.



At least twist all the wires together


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## wayne g

If possible cut at both ends tape and push in wall if you can.


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## Shockdoc

I just cut them or pull em out if accesible, after all it's all scrap these days. I got an extra $125 yesterday just dumping all the romex, thhn and bx that built up in 6 days.A free night out.


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## Dennis Alwon

MDShunk said:


> Here's a zinger for you.
> 
> There's no NEC requirement that the end of an abandoned cable, energized or not, be inside a junction box. You can tape or wire nut it off and stuff it inside the wall, if you want to, and that's legal.


Good luck getting that passed. Take a look at 300.12, IMO, the bolded section would make what you say a violation.



> 300.12 Mechanical Continuity — Raceways and Cables.
> *Metal or nonmetallic raceways, cable armors, and cable sheaths shall be continuous between cabinets, boxes, fittings, or other enclosures or outlets.*
> Exception No. 1: Short sections of raceways used to provide support or protection of cable assemblies from physical damage shall not be required to be mechanically continuous.
> Exception No. 2: Raceways and cables installed into the bottom of open bottom equipment, such as switchboards, motor control centers, and floor or pad-mounted transformers, shall not be required to be mechanically secured to the equipment.


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## duque00

Here is an easy and safe way that takes 2 minutes - Place a piece of duct tape on one end or both (if accessible) and label it "Abandoned" - that way whoever finds it next knows the story. Everyone is now informed and safe.


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## BuzzKill

Dennis Alwon said:


> Good luck getting that passed. Take a look at 300.12, IMO, the bolded section would make what you say a violation.


heartily agree!


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## BuzzKill

HARRY304E said:


> At least twist all the wires together


That's crazy! If the wires are energized and/or have a chance to be energized in the future, that might cause some problems.


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## manchestersparky

MDShunk said:


> Here's a zinger for you.
> 
> There's no NEC requirement that the end of an abandoned cable, energized or not, be inside a junction box. You can tape or wire nut it off and stuff it inside the wall, if you want to, and that's legal.


An even better Zinger - Why is it that the NEC clearly requires the removal or tagging of abandoned Low Voltage cables, BUT not MC,AC,NM cables ?? :confused1:



> Good luck getting that passed. Take a look at 300.12, IMO, the bolded section would make what you say a violation.
> 
> Quote:
> 300.12 Mechanical Continuity — Raceways and Cables.
> *Metal or nonmetallic raceways, cable armors, and cable sheaths shall be continuous between cabinets, boxes, fittings, or other enclosures or outlets.*
> Exception No. 1: Short sections of raceways used to provide support or protection of cable assemblies from physical damage shall not be required to be mechanically continuous.
> Exception No. 2: Raceways and cables installed into the bottom of open bottom equipment, such as switchboards, motor control centers, and floor or pad-mounted transformers, shall not be required to be mechanically secured to the equipment.


300.12 is for cables and raceways that are being utilized. This is the requirement that makes one run the conduit the entire way to a box, and the NM cable sheath into the box.
It is not addressing abandoned cables


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## Stan B.

Drive it out into the middle of nowhere and tie it around a tree.


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## sparky.jp

I would have to say that the answer is "it depends."

My house was originally heated via baseboard electric, so I had five 10-2 NM cables going to various places in the house from the panel. When they converted to the gas furnace, they cut off four of them inside of the panel, rendering them unusable at that end (5th one was used for the furnace).

Needing additional circuits in my house (how a house got built and inspected in 1977 with only ONE circuit to the entire kitchen is beyond me), I had to open up the wall above the panel and install a junction box to reuse the wiring. WAY easier than running new wiring through the attic (I get itchy just thinking about it)!


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## Mike_586

Rules are a bit different up here but the following quote straight from the code bulletins (12-25-1) pretty much spells out what we have to do.



> *Direction*
> 
> Unused wiring shall be properly terminated, or removed. Wiring that is concealed and inaccessible shall be cut off where exposed so as to be too short to be reused.


There are also Fire Codes specifically regarding abandoned wiring in plenum chambers, suffice it to say that if its abandoned, its gotta go.


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## macmikeman

What Denis posted is an incorrect application of that particular section for this example. Naughty. What is in the code however concerning you types that tie the ends together on abandoned cable ends " electrical wiring shall be free of shorts"


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## 480sparky

macmikeman said:


> What Denis posted is an incorrect application of that particular section for this example. Naughty. What is in the code however concerning you types that tie the ends together on abandoned cable ends " electrical wiring shall be free of shorts"



If it's not tied to the electrical system, why does that apply?


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## macmikeman

480sparky said:


> If it's not tied to the electrical system, why does that apply?


I would say so, because of the fact that there is potential to injure or harm the person who may re-connect and re-energizes the other end and the bolted short provides more fault current than the overcurrent device can safely handle. The last part of the sentence is not uncommon on other than dwelling applications (although romex is not, but other types of wiring should not be similarly handled, regardless of how some say they do this). The potential is introduced to blow a safety switch or some other device off the wall in front of the operator that way. Yea, a good electrician would double check first, but they don't all come here and learn the ropes properly first. I feel the separation of the abandoned conductors and proper insulation from each other is more the critical method. (imho) :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky

macmikeman said:


> I would say so, because of the fact that there is potential to injure or harm the person who may re-connect and re-energizes the other end and the bolted short provides more fault current than the overcurrent device can safely handle. The last part of the sentence is not uncommon on other than dwelling applications (although romex is not, but other types of wiring should not be similarly handled, regardless of how some say they do this). The potential is introduced to blow a safety switch or some other device off the wall in front of the operator that way. Yea, a good electrician would double check first, but they don't all come here and learn the ropes properly first. I feel the separation of the abandoned conductors and proper insulation from each other is more the critical method. (imho) :thumbsup:


If a pro is doing it, they should check for shorts _before_ they energize it. If not, then it's their own durn fault. We already have enough rules that cost us money to protect the idiotic.


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## kaboler

If I think it might someday be useful, I cap the coloureds (blk, red) and tuck it away, with the little things done to it if I think I personally will be reusing the circuit (as in a small piece of tape with writing).

If I think it's never going to be useful and it's easy to remove, I'll pull it out.

If I think if it's never going to be useful, and it's hard to remove, I'll cut it short and cap it.

I primarily do commercial, so it's an easy judgement call most of the time.

And yeah, I've never read anything about it in the codebook, only about no gaps mechanically in raceway.


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## nolabama

I have wirenutted em and left em in the wall - now no taps just the end of a wire that came from another story of a house....


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## RePhase277

The only time I have ever buried a box is when I have safed off the end of a live cable where the feed was unknown. Granted that isn't the best solution, but I think it better to have landed it in a box instead of left it drifting in the wall.


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## Dennis Alwon

manchestersparky said:


> 300.12 is for cables and raceways that are being utilized. This is the requirement that makes one run the conduit the entire way to a box, and the NM cable sheath into the box.
> It is not addressing abandoned cables


IMO, If it is still energized it is not abandoned.


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## manchestersparky

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO, If it is still energized it is not abandoned.


I agree 100%.
I used the word Utilized in my prior reply. I consider a cable that is energized as being utilized. 
An abandoned cable is not energized and can not become energized.


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## Shockdoc

Energized such as from inaccesible floor above or below, strip two inches of sheath, heavy tape around each conductor and then as whole.
Disenergized, all conductors twisted together w/ a single wire nut.


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## brian john

Ianc435 said:


> What is the best and safest wat to abandon a wire??
> 
> I heard cap single wire and leave it in wall. I have heard tieing all wires together under one wire nut? What is technically the safest and legal way to do it besides ripping the whole wall down?? What is everbody's thoughts.


At the scrap yard.:thumbup:


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## Josue

Ianc435 said:


> What is the best and safest wat to abandon a wire??
> 
> I heard cap single wire and leave it in wall. I have heard tieing all wires together under one wire nut? What is technically the safest and legal way to do it besides ripping the whole wall down?? What is everbody's thoughts.


If it´s indoors I use a wirenut.
If it´s in exterior, I use wire nut and cover it with electrical tape


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## mrmike

I wire nut them together & trace it to the point of entry into the wall, & to whereever it is fed from, via jct box,switch box,EP & remove it there & yank out the wire to that point of entry & cut it and cap it off there also..............


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