# USA NEC or Canada CEC which is of a higher standard or is there a difference?



## daveEM

Different countries, different rules.

I find it odd they don't use our code. 

They are strange, some states using 2008 code, other states not requiring electricians to have any formal training (I think on that one).

I think the code has lost its way. Pretty much driven by the manufactures now. They design a product and lobby like hell to make us use it. That may or may not be OK.


----------



## don_resqcapt19

There are areas where one of the two codes is stricter than the other. I am not sure that, overall, you can say one is more stringent than the other.
There is an ongoing process to bring the NEC and CEC in line with each other. The changes in the NEC ampacity tables were part of that process.


----------



## wildleg

Americans have better Electrical Standards, Canadians have better standards for blended whiskey. That about sums it up.


:laughing: (waiting for the anvil to fall)


----------



## wendon

torontorepair said:


> I've been curious as to this question. I've been told that Canadian standards are much stricter then American. But is there any truth to this? I've found it odd that we spend so much money maintaining a separate standard from the Americans unless of course it is for this reason.


You trying to start a hockey game? I've never looked at the CEC but is it written in Canadian? 

I can about see it...........:whistling2:
CEC

110.12
Okay guys, like the electrical equipment that you are installing? You guys are supposed to like install this stuff in a neat and workmanlike manner aye. 

Are all your minimum distances given only in metric or, like the NEC, are they non-biased?


----------



## macmikeman

Sideways panels tells me everything I need to know..........


----------



## Meadow

For resi Id say CEC. 


However if one compares the IEC to the NEC/CEC both get blown away. I say both should be replaced with the IEC.


----------



## Meadow

don_resqcapt19 said:


> There is an ongoing process to bring the NEC and CEC in line with the IEC.


 
FIFY. In a perfect world :laughing:


----------



## MTW

meadow said:


> For resi Id say CEC.


I think it depends on the requirement. The CEC is more lax than the NEC on some resi rules, for instance, no requirement for 20 amp circuits like the NEC, EGC is smaller than the circuit conductors in their NM cable, but more restrictive on others - no SE cable allowed, panelboards must have a separate compartment for the service conductors. 






> I say both should be replaced with the IEC.


:no:


----------



## Meadow

MTW said:


> I think it depends on the requirement. The CEC is more lax than the NEC on some resi rules, for instance, no requirement for 20 amp circuits like the NEC, EGC is smaller than the circuit conductors in their NM cable, but more restrictive on others - no SE cable allowed, panelboards must have a separate compartment for the service conductors.
> Almost. Kitchens were allowed to be wired in splits, and if I remember the more counter space the more circuits since that is a driving requirement. Now 20amp circuits are allowed for the GFCI requirement, but the same thing, more counter space means more circuits (a Canadian sparky could chime in) As a whole Canadian homes have more circuits than do NEC homes since the 3va per foot method isn't used (I still say our 3va per foot not always enough). Plus outlet numbers (I believe) are restricted per circuit.
> 
> EGC are smaller, although their number #6 CU calls for a #8 ground where we can get away with a #10 along with a few other similar scenarios. However I do think the NEC should go back to smaller EGCs for the 14,12,10 gauges.
> 
> I do agree with you though, both are strict/lean in various ways. However, when I look at codes I never judge by restrictions, rather what they do to contribute to the 'practical safe guards of property and life'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :no:



:blink: You've never read IEC based codes then:lol::jester:


----------



## chicken steve

While i've certainly read some code jems from the great white north , trying to compare it all just isn't apples/apples. ~CS~


----------



## torontorepair

wendon said:


> You trying to start a hockey game? I've never looked at the CEC but is it written in Canadian?
> 
> I can about see it...........:whistling2:
> CEC
> 
> 110.12
> Okay guys, like the electrical equipment that you are installing? You guys are supposed to like install this stuff in a neat and workmanlike manner aye.
> 
> Are all your minimum distances given only in metric or, like the NEC, are they non-biased?


......Well the US is one of only two countries still holding onto the archaic and completely nonsensical standard system of measurement. For what reason who knows .


----------



## stuiec

wendon said:


> You trying to start a hockey game? I've never looked at the CEC but is it written in Canadian?
> 
> I can about see it...........:whistling2:
> CEC
> 
> 110.12
> * Okay guys, like the electrical equipment that you are installing? You guys are supposed to like install this stuff in a neat and workmanlike manner aye. *
> 
> Are all your minimum distances given only in metric or, like the NEC, are they non-biased?


You're not doing it right. You're coming off as more of a valley-girl pirate. Fewer "like"s, and drop the aye-----its eh.


----------



## Meadow

torontorepair said:


> ......Well the US is one of only two countries still holding onto the archaic and completely nonsensical standard system of measurement. For what reason who knows .


And an archaic utilization voltage...


----------



## stuiec

torontorepair said:


> ......Well the US is one of only two countries still holding onto the archaic and completely nonsensical standard system of measurement. For what reason who knows .


You're not fooling anyone if you're suggesting that life runs solely in metric in Canada.


----------



## FrunkSlammer

American code may be better, but Canadian sparky's are better!


----------



## torontorepair

stuiec said:


> You're not fooling anyone if you're suggesting that life runs solely in metric in Canada.


I never said it did. But the sole reason that we are stuck still using standard so often is because of the Americans unwillingness to adopt the metric system. Our country officially adopted the system decades ago where the US refuses to budge on the issue. Entirely frustrating for younger generations like myself who would like nothing more then to just use metric. Standard has always baffled me. "Three eights of a quarter of an inch," wtf does that mean?! lol, really though it's ass backwards when you think about it. It must be a poor system when even the people who developed it gave it up for metric.


----------



## MTW

stuiec said:


> You're not fooling anyone if you're suggesting that life runs solely in metric in Canada.


Wasn't Canada using Imperial measurements before it adopted metric? In fact, all the former colonies and the UK itself used that system before switching to metric.


----------



## MTW

torontorepair said:


> I never said it did. But the sole reason that we are stuck still using standard so often is because of the Americans unwillingness to adopt the metric system. Our country officially adopted the system decades ago where the US refuses to budge on the issue. Entirely frustrating for younger generations like myself who would like nothing more then to just use metric. Standard has always baffled me. "Three eights of a quarter of an inch," wtf does that mean?! lol, really though it's ass backwards when you think about it. It must be a poor system when even the people who developed it gave it up for metric.


I'd say the economies of both countries are too interdependent for that to ever change either, unless the USA goes completely metric (highly unlikely.)


----------



## stuiec

torontorepair said:


> I never said it did. But the sole reason that we are stuck still using standard so often is because of the Americans unwillingness to adopt the metric system. Our country officially adopted the system decades ago where the US refuses to budge on the issue. Entirely frustrating for younger generations like myself who would like nothing more then to just use metric. Standard has always baffled me. "Three eights of a quarter of an inch," wtf does that mean?! lol, really though it's ass backwards when you think about it. It must be a poor system when even the people who developed it gave it up for metric.


I was taught metric as a kid, and I'm 43. Get over it, its really pretty simple.



MTW said:


> Wasn't Canada using Imperial measurements before it adopted metric? In fact, all the former colonies and the UK itself used that system before switching to metric.


Yup.




MTW said:


> I'd say the economies of both countries are too interdependent for that to ever change either, unless the USA goes completely metric (highly unlikely.)


Exactly


----------



## chicken steve

torontorepair said:


> Standard has always baffled me. "Three eights of a quarter of an inch," wtf does that mean?! lol, really though it's ass backwards when you think about it. .


I say_ 'three eggs' _ 

It's all part of my fowl plan to convolute world trade agreements into my back pocket

Just wait until i get to the _chicken_dollar ....

~C:jester:S~


----------



## wcord

macmikeman said:


> Sideways panels tells me everything I need to know..........


1 big hole in the back of a panel , with 20 romex cables and no connector, tells everybody all they need to know:whistling2:


----------



## Bugz11B

torontorepair said:


> "Three eights of a quarter of an inch," wtf does that mean?! lol, really though it's ass backwards when you think about it


3/8th's is 1/8th larger then a 1/4... Its really pretty simple, just as im sure metric is (if I cared to learn it). Basically what im saying is, 3/8th's of a 1/4" is not something you would ever hear... Who knows maybe your speaking metric and I dont get it.


----------



## Bugz11B

torontorepair said:


> I've been curious as to this question. I've been told that Canadian standards are much stricter then American. But is there any truth to this? I've found it odd that we spend so much money maintaining a separate standard from the Americans unless of course it is for this reason.


Our standards are in favor of corporations, yours probably are also. Based on some of the things I have ran into and the houses not burned down my opinion is the code has sold its soul to the devil (but I still follow it).


----------



## wcord

Bugz11B said:


> 3/8th's is 1/8th larger then a 1/4... Its really pretty simple, just as im sure metric is (if I cared to learn it). .


10mm is longer/bigger than 9 mm.
easy to learn :thumbup:


----------



## Meadow

wcord said:


> 10mm is longer/bigger than 9 mm.
> easy to learn :thumbup:


But not when its 6 centi meters vs 14 millimeters. Which is larger now? :whistling2:


----------



## wcord

meadow said:


> But not when its 6 centi meters vs 14 milli meters. Which is larger now? :whistling2:


if you are going to compare at least convert the same unit.
lets see 60 mm vs 14 mm or 6 cm vs 1.4 cm.
Metric is a pia to get used too, but it is lot easier to measure and do your calculations.


----------



## wendon

stuiec said:


> You're not doing it right. You're coming off as more of a valley-girl pirate. Fewer "like"s, and drop the aye-----its eh.


Hey, I know enough Canadian to carry on a conversation with a native! Probably more the younger set that uses the word "like" in every sentence. 
Canadians tell me that down here in the States, we say HUH?
One of the funnier Canadian phrases that I've heard is when you 
say the sentence "He crept in the car and left" in Canadian.


----------



## MTW

I look at it like this - Finnish is one of the most complicated and difficult languages to learn in the world (even native speakers admit it's messed up) and yet millions of people have no trouble learning and speaking it. It's the same with measurements. I'm used to using Imperial measurements so it's no difficulty that the system isn't intuitive and doesn't make logical sense.


----------



## torontorepair

Bugz11B said:


> 3/8th's is 1/8th larger then a 1/4... Its really pretty simple, just as im sure metric is (if I cared to learn it). Basically what im saying is, 3/8th's of a 1/4" is not something you would ever hear... Who knows maybe your speaking metric and I dont get it.


Did you know there is a band called metric? Fascinating stuff! No bands called standard that's for sure! Lol


----------



## dronai

torontorepair said:


> Did you know there is a band called metric? Fascinating stuff! No bands called standard that's for sure! Lol


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Standard_(band)


----------



## macmikeman




----------



## bkmichael65

Some down here think the Canadians spell funny, although I find no humour in their behaviour


----------



## Meadow

bkmichael65 said:


> Some down here think the Canadians spell funny, although I find no humour in their behaviour


Nahhh, they just have no colour.


----------



## torontorepair

meadow said:


> Nahhh, they just have no colour.


Its not our fault we still use proper English. The yanks his got lazy... Or drunk and bastardised Her Majesty's English. God save the Queen! And Doughnuts, Colourful words like Centre and Labour  
Blah this has become tiresome, I need to go build my igloo or something....*slowly walks away hoping no one notices*


----------



## macmikeman

torontorepair said:


> Its not our fault we still use proper English. The yanks his got lazy... Or drunk and bastardised Her Majesty's English. God save the Queen! And Doughnuts, Colourful words like Centre and Labour
> Blah this has become tiresome, I need to go build my igloo or something....*slowly walks away hoping no one notices*


If you are tired, go lie down on the Chesterfield....


----------



## Shock-Therapy

Ive done lots of resi work for both sides of the 49th parallel. Hate em both.


----------



## triden

macmikeman said:


> If you are tired, go lie down on the Chesterfield....


:laughing: Han't heard that in a couple years. I used to use it all the time as a kid!


----------



## eddy current

Canadian sparkys must know metric and imperial. Our code and most plans are in metric. Wire is sold in metric as well. Conduit and fittings are in standard. 

Biggest difference in our trade IMO,
Our Red Seal Canada wide licence is way ahead of the licencing in the US. It's not perfect, but one licence for the whole country is the way to go.


----------



## JW Splicer

eddy current said:


> Canadian sparkys must know metric and imperial. Our code and most plans are in metric. Wire is sold in metric as well. Conduit and fittings are in standard.
> 
> Biggest difference in our trade IMO,
> Our Red Seal Canada wide licence is way ahead of the licencing in the US. It's not perfect, but one licence for the whole country is the way to go.


This! Every state, county, city, region has a different license, or no license, or no formal training, or state code! It's a pain! We have journeyman, masters, contractors, administrators, inspectors.... 

Just make it country wide. With specialty or unlimited (can work all specialties). Journey level, or contractor.

Journeyman electrician- resi, commercial, industrial, maintenance, I&C
Journeyman lineman- transmission, distribution
Journeyman cable splicer- transmission, distribution
Journeyman low voltage inside- alarms, FA, Tele/data
Journeyman low voltage outside- copper/fiber/coax/micro

Etc. it just makes sense!


----------



## eddy current

Maybe I'm dreaming, but imagine one code book and one licence for North America!!


----------



## FrunkSlammer

eddy current said:


> Maybe I'm dreaming, but imagine one code book and one licence for North America!!


As long as it's based on the Mexican Electrical Code.. that sounds awesome!


----------



## Michigan Master

The world is getting smaller, more and more companies are operating at a global level which makes understanding and complying with all the different regulations more difficult. As a result we are beginning to see an increase in use of international standards; for example, we recently conformed to the Globally Harmonized System for Classification and Labeling of Workplace Chemicals (GHS).

_Canada, U.S. take step toward regulatory harmonization:_
http://www.cos-mag.com/safety/safet...ake-step-toward-regulatory-harmonization.html



MTW said:


> I'd say the economies of both countries are too interdependent for that to ever change either, unless the USA goes completely metric (highly unlikely.)


I can see us going completely metric (but not in my lifetime).


eddy current said:


> Our Red Seal Canada wide licence is way ahead of the licencing in the US. It's not perfect, but one licence for the whole country is the way to go.


I agree, but bet money that’ll never happen here.


----------



## Meadow

I can see a global standard taking hold one day.


----------

