# The NEC is just a guideline right?



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Not sure who is responsible for this failure it might have been a contractor or the POCO (then I guess it would be NESC but still there has to be something in there about mechanical connection) but ether way its total crap.

So someone thought they could get away with not using a lock nut on this service. As a result the conduit is sinking down away from the meter. Its a 100 amp 480 volt service and this is about 10 feet from the transformer feeding it. I really don't want to think about what would happen if this conduit sinks any lower and the wires start to chafe on the meter socket, but I bet the meter, disco, and building would probably go away. Then to add insult to injury the k.o. is one size too big so who ever installed the phone demark thought to them selves "what the hell I will stick my ground wire through here to connect to ground"!!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

All I see is a huge gray blur.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

You should cut down on the coffee... lol

Looks like they are in for big boom!

~Matt


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

You need to re size and re focus 

The only failure I see is the one taking the picture :laughing:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Digital cameras are awesome. There are not like the old 35mm cameras where you had to wait a few days after dropping off your film to see the picture. Use your screen to see if the photo comes out before leaving. I know it's just a photo for an internet forum, but how would you email this photo to the property owner to try to land this fix?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow, I really do suck, it looked better on my phone screen, I never looked at it in full size. I will bring this up to the client in person, this is really the utility's deal because it's on the line side of the meter.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Looks like they could use an expansion coupling. Seen plenty of that in PA from ground settling.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ok photo critics I updated there is a non gray blob picture for y'all;


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

Might have been like that from the beginning; there is paint on the conduit threads, but none on the disconnect or the telephone nid.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

millerdrr said:


> Might have been like that from the beginning; there is paint on the conduit threads, but none on the disconnect or the telephone nid.


Yeah I don't think it ever had a lock nut on it, there isn't anything securing the conduit to the wall either so I guess no lock nut is just par for the course.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Yeah I don't think it ever had a lock nut on it, there isn't anything securing the conduit to the wall either so I guess no lock nut is just par for the course.


What is the LVT snaking in? Also I think it is pretty obvious, there was never a locknut on the conduit. Hack Work!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

That wouldn't be the first time I saw a EC forget to put on a lock nut and plastic bushing.

The dirt around the PVC settled and pulled the MA down.. quick fix and nice $$$$$$


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

If you opened it you may see a Meyers Hub locknut that had been put on without engaging enough thread to hold it for long. Did you say you had a plan to fix this?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

No the NEC is not a guideline or a manual for that matter. Its a minimum standard for electrical installations. Now dig that sh!t up and put on a set of reducing washers and a ground bushing!! And secure/support that pipe so it doesnt fall again ...


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

gold said:


> No the NEC is not a guideline or a manual for that matter. Its a minimum standard for electrical installations. Now dig that sh!t up and put on a set of reducing washers and a ground bushing!! And secure/support that pipe so it doesnt fall again ...



I doubt the NEC applies to the conduit we are looking at.

In my area the 'service point' for that type of service would be the line side terminals of that meter socket.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> I doubt the NEC applies to the conduit we are looking at.
> 
> In my area the 'service point' for that type of service would be the line side terminals of that meter socket.


Really? Here we do pretty much everything up to the transformer. Waiting for poco to do anything here is pretty futile.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

gold said:


> Really? Here we do pretty much everything up to the transformer. Waiting for poco to do anything here is pretty futile.


We may run the conduit and the conductors but it will still be under the NESC and not the NEC.

The NEC tells us directly it does not apply to the line side of the service point. 

.... Well unless you have that inspector that feels if it is electrical it is under his thumb.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Dudes it's called sarcasm. That conduit is really the POCOs, like Bob said it's NESC territory. I just noticed and was like what the hell, and I had my camera and I figured you guys might like a picture. My plan would be to set the sites back up generator up, transfer over, have the POCO disconnect, remove that stupid telephone ground and force the thing up and put on a lock nut and a bushing an clamp the conduit to the wall. The client will probably go to the POCO first and try to get them to fix it. 

By the way that gray wire is the teleco ground going through the same ko. And I looked up in there with a light and there is nothing up there except for part of the concentric ko.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Dudes it's called sarcasm. That conduit is really the POCOs, like Bob said it's NESC territory. I just noticed and was like what the hell, and I had my camera and I figured you guys might like a picture. My plan would be to set the sites back up generator up, transfer over, have the POCO disconnect, remove that stupid telephone ground and force the thing up and put on a lock nut and a bushing an clamp the conduit to the wall. The client will probably go to the POCO first and try to get them to fix it.
> 
> By the way that gray wire is the teleco ground going through the same ko. And I looked up in there with a light and there is nothing up there except for part of the concentric ko.


After you force the thing up, what would you do about the oversized hole...doughnuts?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> After you force the thing up, what would you do about the oversized hole...doughnuts?


Actually I was wrong the first time I looked at it, I looked at it again yesterday and the ko is the right size so it would be a really easy fix.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> We may run the conduit and the conductors but it will still be under the NESC and not the NEC.
> 
> The NEC tells us directly it does not apply to the line side of the service point.
> 
> .... Well unless you have that inspector that feels if it is electrical it is under his thumb.


No argument here but does the NESC differ so much that it would allow this? Would the repair be any different?

Both rhetorical questions, the only one that really matters is; Does the poco allow you to fix it in your area?

No criticism here Jlarson just breaking your stones a bit.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

gold said:


> No argument here but does the NESC differ so much that it would allow this? Would the repair be any different?
> 
> Both rhetorical questions, the only one that really matters is; Does the poco allow you to fix it in your area?
> 
> No criticism here Jlarson just breaking your stones a bit.


Last time I checked the NESC does not allow stupid nor does this POCOs installation book. It's alright I was about to make a 250.52 joke aimed at you anyway:laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

That huge picture has completely ruined this thread.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

william1978 said:


> That huge picture has completely ruined this thread.


:laughing: Hey I am well within my rights to f*ck up my own thread thank you very much.:jester: Is it really that big, or do you just have like a 14" screen?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

william1978 said:


> That huge picture has completely ruined this thread.


How to change the resolution of your monitor that was made in 1988.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> :laughing: Hey I am well within my rights to f*ck up my own thread thank you very much.:jester: Is it really that big, or do you just have like a 14" screen?


 It sure isn't the largest that someone has postedhere. I'm just giving you a hard time. BTW I am looking at a 17" screen.:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

william1978 said:


> It sure isn't the largest that someone has postedhere. I'm just giving you a hard time. BTW I am looking at a 17" screen.:thumbsup:


Yeah mike32 will probably come along now and post his whole coast of Florida picture again.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> Yeah mike32 will probably come along now and post his whole coast of Florida picture again.


 :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

gold said:


> No argument here but does the NESC differ so much that it would allow this? Would the repair be any different?


I don't know the answer I suspect no it would not allow it.

But the Power Company would be the AHJ and unless they want it fixed it may stay that way. IMO the local EI has no real authority to force it to be repaired. They might get away with just pretending they have the authority.



> Does the poco allow you to fix it in your area?


They are all different around me, some would have us fix it on the customers dime, others would fix themselves.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Last time I checked the NESC *does not allow stupid* nor does this POCOs installation book.



Really, so after this was inspected and passed someone came by and removed the lock nut? :laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Here poco runs the under ground into the meter. Our electrical inspector could not turn it down.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Really, so after this was inspected and passed someone came by and removed the lock nut? :laughing:


:laughing: I said the code doesn't allow it, now the inspector inspecting and interpreting said code, all bets are off.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> :laughing: I said the code doesn't allow it, now the inspector inspecting and interpreting said code, all bets are off.


No inspector should have let that pass.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

oldtimer said:


> No inspector should have let that pass.


Around here (Twin Cities, MN), the inspector would inspect that meter without the underground pipe even connected yet. Inspector needs to pass the service before XCEl will connect. We just leave a piece of pipe, connectors and locknut for them next to the meter and they install it when the dig the underground in


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

And for what it's worth I have seen quite a few meters that looked like crap after a few years of thaw/freeze cycles. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a locknut inside of that, although it doesn't look like the threads are damaged so who knows. Shoulda cut the seal and snuck a peek.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> And for what it's worth I have seen quite a few meters that looked like crap after a few years of thaw/freeze cycles. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a locknut inside of that, although it doesn't look like the threads are damaged so who knows. Shoulda cut the seal and snuck a peek.


Nope no lock nut here, look at the way the phone hacks got in to connect their ground.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> And for what it's worth I have seen quite a few meters that looked like crap after a few years of thaw/freeze cycles.


I am guessing that is not a problem in Arizona. 

Here we are required to put some type of expansion fitting for ground movement.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I am guessing that is not a problem in Arizona


Cause the entire state is always 100 plus degrees:laughing: this is actually in an area where freeze thaw might just start to be a problem.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Nope no lock nut here, look at the way the phone hacks got in to connect their ground.


That demarc point looks a lot newer than the rest of that stuff.


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## ashele4530 (Jun 5, 2010)

in ct. the local authority and power company would have red flagged this installation just by seeing the phone company ground exiting the meter socket in that manor.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

ashele4530 said:


> in ct. the local authority and power company would have red flagged this installation just by seeing the phone company ground exiting the meter socket in that manor.


Not here:laughing::laughing:

welcome to the forum BTW.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Man, it don't look like that PVC connector would clear the cover when shut. Is it me, or will the cover hit?

Wrong box or pipe size...


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Man, it don't look like that PVC connector would clear the cover when shut. Is it me, or will the cover hit?


I don't think such a trivial little thing matters to hacks:laughing:



> Wrong box or pipe size...


Wrong installer:yes:


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