# 200.2(b)



## Nutmegger777 (Mar 14, 2014)

Other than the panel's listing, is there anything in NEC that forbids installing a jumper between a factory-installed neutral busbar and an added busbar to satisfy 200.2(b), as long as that jumper is sized the same as the neutral conductor "feeding" the first busbar? 
I realize that the panel's listing maybe the overriding deciding factor, but this is more of an NEC theory question.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I didn't look up 200.2(B), but isn't that about using the enclosure as the path? You're not talking about doing that


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## Nutmegger777 (Mar 14, 2014)

backstay said:


> I didn't look up 200.2(B), but isn't that about using the enclosure as the path? You're not talking about doing that


I am... that the continuity of the grounded conductor cannot depend on the enclosure.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I think the intention of your question is different than the code article that you are referring to.

Are you having a problem of loosing the bonding screw that came with the panel?



> *200.2 General.*
> Grounded conductors shall comply with 200.2(A) and (B).
> *(A)Insulation.*
> The grounded conductor, if insulated, shall have insulation that is (1) suitable, other than color, for any ungrounded conductor of the same circuit for systems of 1000 volts or less, or impedance grounded neutral systems of over 1000 volts, or (2) rated not less than 600 volts for solidly grounded neutral systems of over 1000 volts as described in250.184(A).
> ...


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## Nutmegger777 (Mar 14, 2014)

cabletie said:


> I think the intention of your question is different than the code article that you are referring to.
> 
> Are you having a problem of loosing the bonding screw that came with the panel?


Referring to this picture, for instance... 
Wondering if, theoretically, this kind of a situation can be remedied by a field-installed jumper, rather than consolidating the conductors on the busbar in the upper right.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Probably not. Now the current flow has two paths. One is the conductor the other is the can.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Nutmegger777 said:


> Referring to this picture, for instance...
> Wondering if, theoretically, this kind of a situation can be remedied by a field-installed jumper, rather than consolidating the conductors on the busbar in the upper right.


Yes, as long as the conductor is large enough for the intended load. It's really no different than running a four wire sub panel.


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## Nutmegger777 (Mar 14, 2014)

cabletie said:


> Probably not. Now the current flow has two paths. One is the conductor the other is the can.


Right... if that's the case, what article does it violate though?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

250.6 (A) Possibly this would be the article?



> *250.6 Objectionable Current.
> **A)Arrangement to Prevent Objectionable Current.*
> The grounding of electrical systems, *circuit conductors*, surge arresters, surge-protective devices, and conductive normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment shall be installed and arranged in a manner that will prevent objectionable current.
> *(B)Alterations to Stop Objectionable Current.*
> ...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I disagree that the install is not compliant. The neutral conductor and bar are grounded to the can. Many panels GE for one, comes with a large bar that attaches the 2 bars. This is no different than adding a bar and installing an appropriately sized jumper


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Btw, objectionable current is there every time you install a meter base with metal conduit attached to the service disconnect enclosure


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I disagree that the install is not compliant. The neutral conductor and bar are grounded to the can. Many panels GE for one, comes with a large bar that attaches the 2 bars. This is no different than adding a bar and installing an appropriately sized jumper


I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the same panel, but the ones I've seen have two bars down each side. Both bars are isolated from ground. One bar gets the bond screw, and both bars are connected together with a bar across the top. This is different than the picture that Nutmegger777 linked to. 

In the picture adding a wire jumper would essentially be adding another main bonding jumper. In this situation moving the neutral conductor to the proper bar would be the right fix. 

Yes it is common for the meter socket to be grounded through the neutral and have a ground loop with a metallic raceway. It's pretty much unavoidable and excepted, not to mention outside the scope of the NEC.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

With a jumper between the bars in the picture what is the difference between that and the panel board you describe


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

The difference would be one would only have one main bonding jumper. The one in the picture would have two. 

To take it to extremes, what would happen if I landed all the grounds on the neutral bar with the main bonding jumper,and all the neutrals on the ground bar. Would it pass if I added a wire jumper between the two?


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## Rodger (Jan 3, 2017)

Dennis Alwon said:


> With a jumper between the bars in the picture what is the difference between that and the panel board you describe


In the GE panel the current form the second bus bar does not have a path through the enclosure to get back the the service neutral. In your scenario it would.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Rodger said:


> In the GE panel the current form the second bus bar does not have a path through the enclosure to get back the the service neutral. In your scenario it would.


Yes, it would if you used a ground bar instead of a neutral bar. I was assuming a neutral bar with a jumper but I realized way back that the op was using a ground bar.


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