[Kaitlyn]

If the equipment (receptacles) have a temp rating you can use it but I doubt they do. The rule is the first 1.2 meters of wire from equipment, making joints doesn’t matter.

So the wire in the first conduit with 10 wires can be rated at the breaker termination temp (75 degrees), and then the wires from the pull box to the receptacle must be rated at 60 degrees assuming the receptacle does not have a termination temp and that those wires are at least 1.2 meters long

Alright so I'm digging this up again for another job.

New 120/208 panel. Out of there with a 1" EMT to feed multiple automotive hoists.

Going to have 7-24 conductors, which gives me .7 de-rating for the conductors.

12awg RW90 solid wire is what we have currently for this job.

12 awg is 25 amp rated conductors at 75°.

70% is 17.5 amps. Lifts draw 16 amps, so they're going on 20 amp overcurrent protection.

Good to go or should I keep it under 7 conductors per conduit?

We don't really have an issue running 2 conduits instead of one if we have to... although we would rather not.

Tl;Dr, 17.5 amp rated 12awg after de-rating on 20 amp breaker with 16 amp load?

 

[eddy current]

Alright so I'm digging this up again for another job.

New 120/208 panel. Out of there with a 1" EMT to feed multiple automotive hoists.

Going to have 7-24 conductors, which gives me .7 de-rating for the conductors.

12awg RW90 solid wire is what we have currently for this job.

12 awg is 25 amp rated conductors at 75°.

70% is 17.5 amps. Lifts draw 16 amps, so they're going on 20 amp overcurrent protection.

Good to go or should I keep it under 7 conductors per conduit?

We don't really have an issue running 2 conduits instead of one if we have to... although we would rather not.

Tl;Dr, 17.5 amp rated 12awg after de-rating on 20 amp breaker with 16 amp load?

In Ontario, even though the termination temperature rating of the equipment may be lower, you can derate a conductor from the temperature column that corresponds to the wire temperature rating. See bulletin 4-12-4.

So a 12 awg 90 degree wire at 70% would be rated at 21 amps. (30 x .7 = 21)

 

[908Eng]

Other question I have is, can I install an isolated ground outlet, and just run the isolated ground the the ground bus in the panel of the store? I'm wondering if it's okay to do it this way. (The boss has never had to install an isolated ground receptical... changed/replaced yes just not new lines). I'm just worried about interference or whatever for the cash register area (job is T&M so not worried about the extra cost to do it) or am I just over thinking this?

Sorry, slight hijack here... but has anyone out there ever ran into a problem that was solved with an IG plug? Personally I haven't heard of an IG plug doing anything useful. I see old school engineers and misguided I/T staff call for them but I doubt they understand why.

I have a feeling that this was left over from when electronics were kinda junky and more prone to interference issues. I don't think modern electronics suffer from any sensitivity like this. Can anyone make a good argument for the use of an IG plug in any situation?

 

[eddy current]

Sorry, slight hijack here... but has anyone out there ever ran into a problem that was solved with an IG plug? Personally I haven't heard of an IG plug doing anything useful. I see old school engineers and misguided I/T staff call for them but I doubt they understand why.

I have a feeling that this was left over from when electronics were kinda junky and more prone to interference issues. I don't think modern electronics suffer from any sensitivity like this. Can anyone make a good argument for the use of an IG plug in any situation?

I got one.

I did a job that had white walls with orange accents and the orange IG receptacles matched really well 👍

 

[Kaitlyn]

In Ontario, even though the termination temperature rating of the equipment may be lower, you can derate a conductor from the temperature column that corresponds to the wire temperature rating. See bulletin 4-12-4.



So a 12 awg 90 degree wire at 70% would be rated at 21 amps. (30 x .7 = 21)

That's what I thought. I couldn't remember though.

Now that I know which bulletin to reference I'm good to go.

Thanks Eddy!

 

[quick_2]

Anytime im doing more than a circuit or two of pipe work i usually run 1"
1" can fit max 25 #12 t90
24 #12 derate to 21A and can be used for 20A ccts.
the 25th wire is a green #12 so that if i have to pull 10's for something far or larger im good to go.
When pulling in you can usually get it done with two or three pulls and with that many spools if you pull a #14 green it will curl at a different twist than the #12s and cause spaghetti.
1" is the sweet spot, but if you actually plan to fill it go larger.
Ontario only, the bulletin and following the math is worth the time.

 

[Kaitlyn]

Anytime im doing more than a circuit or two of pipe work i usually run 1"
1" can fit max 25 #12 t90
24 #12 derate to 21A and can be used for 20A ccts.
the 25th wire is a green #12 so that if i have to pull 10's for something far or larger im good to go.
When pulling in you can usually get it done with two or three pulls and with that many spools if you pull a #14 green it will curl at a different twist than the #12s and cause spaghetti.
1" is the sweet spot, but if you actually plan to fill it go larger.
Ontario only, the bulletin and following the math is worth the time.

We're running all 1" and 3/4" on this job. I brought my 1/2" bender, but we aren't even buying 1/2" conduit haha

We use RW90, not T90

We are running oversized conduits for future additions that we are predicting will happen within a few months.

Where are you getting 25 conductors in a conduit from? CEC Table 6K says 22 conductors in a 27mm conduit max... see attached photo

 

[quick_2]

table 6 is based on the inside diameter of the smallest type of conduit as a general lookup tool. Go calculate fill with table 9 and 10a

 

[Kaitlyn]

table 6 is based on the inside diameter of the smallest type of conduit as a general lookup tool. Go calculate fill with table 9 and 10a

I forgot about that! Just did the math for my RW90 solid #12 and it comes up to 21.5 conductors for a 1" EMT. The table says 16! That means we are over building more than we thought.

Oh well, makes for easy pulls.

 

[VELOCI3]

I usually go with max 6 ckts per 3/4C with #12. Over 100’ use #10. Known heavy loads this won’t apply to. Most ckts are low amperage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kaitlyn]

I usually go with max 6 ckts per 3/4C with #12. Over 100’ use #10. Known heavy loads this won’t apply to. Most ckts are low amperage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's funny, we are going to have a 1" EMT with only 11 conductors. 4 hoists (2 conductors each) and 2 receptacles on their own breakers.

The run will be downsized to 3/4" after the second hoist, leaving us with only 7 conductors.

Nothing will be more than 100' I don't think. Maybe closer to 80'. We will find out when the conduit gets installed. We are stuck dead in the water without any ladders or a lift... their lift is too short, and their ladders belong in the garbage... Tuesday I'm getting a shipment of ladders.

 

[eddy current]

their lift is too short, and their ladders belong in the garbage... Tuesday I'm getting a shipment of ladders.

Lift is too short, so you will be using ladders? How high off the ground is the conduit run?

 

[Kaitlyn]

Lift is too short, so you will be using ladders? How high off the ground is the conduit run?

Here's a photo of one of the 2 feet on their 12 foot fiberglass ladder... see an issue with it?

Conduit is 15 feet up. We are getting my dad's 8' step ladder, 12' step ladder, and 24' extension ladder for the conduit. Ladders will be here Tuesday because I have a 26' straight truck booked already for a trip to his place and back with 6 pallets of stuff.

We NEED a lift for some of the work in the middle of the area. There are some teck cables that need to be moved and dropped down to the hoists. The teck is currently 30'+/- off the ground. Their lift is only 18'.

Also waiting on my 4 conductor #1 aluminum ACWU feeder for my 100 amp panel.

And here's a photo of their Chinese lift that doesn't meet any standards of any kind. That's as high as the lift goes. We need to reach the ceiling to unstrap the teck and relocate it.

Photo doesn't show it, but the lift is 8' from the deck on the lift to the bottom of the 4' steel beam.

We have talked them into getting us a 30' boom lift.

 

[eddy current]

Here's a photo of one of the 2 feet on their 12 foot fiberglass ladder... see an issue with it?

Conduit is 15 feet up. We are getting my dad's 8' step ladder, 12' step ladder, and 24' extension ladder for the conduit. Ladders will be here Tuesday because I have a 26' straight truck booked already for a trip to his place and back with 6 pallets of stuff.

We NEED a lift for some of the work in the middle of the area. There are some teck cables that need to be moved and dropped down to the hoists. The teck is currently 30'+/- off the ground. Their lift is only 18'.

Also waiting on my 4 conductor #1 aluminum ACWU feeder for my 100 amp panel.

And here's a photo of their Chinese lift that doesn't meet any standards of any kind. That's as high as the lift goes. We need to reach the ceiling to unstrap the teck and relocate it.

Photo doesn't show it, but the lift is 8' from the deck on the lift to the bottom of the 4' steel beam.

We have talked them into getting us a 30' boom lift.

I assume using “their” ladders and lift was part of the job agreement?

 

[Kaitlyn]

I assume using “their” ladders and lift was part of the job agreement?

The lift was. Ladder part, not so much. No one looked at the condition of the ladders when they bid the job. Not a big issue bringing our own ladders in, we weren't sure what we needed yet anyway.

 

[eddy current]

I assume using “their” ladders and lift was part of the job agreement?

The lift was. Ladder part, not so much. No one looked at the condition of the ladders when they bid the job. Not a big issue bringing our own ladders in, we weren't sure what we needed yet anyway.

That’s surprising as the owner of the equipment is responsible for anyone that uses it.

FYI, It’s a good idea not to let other trades use your equipment. This is common on large jobs. Someone uses your ladder and gets hurt it can come back to you.

 

[Kaitlyn]

That’s surprising as the owner of the equipment is responsible for anyone that uses it.

FYI, It’s a good idea not to let other trades use your equipment. This is common on large jobs. Someone uses your ladder and gets hurt it can come back to you.

Yeah, i know the MOL rules for using equipment and loaning equipment.

We never let anyone use our ladders. Not just for the fact if they get hurt, but the fact that most people do not treat our stuff very nicely. We've had more things come back broken than not when we let people borrow anything.

The lift we didn't really want to use for anything if we didn't have to, but now there's no choice in using it anyway. It's too short. They bought it to change the T5 light bulbs ( thats another thing, they want a price to change them to LED and lower them down).